How Important is a College Education Today?

posted at 10:36 am on March 14, 2011 by
[ Education ]   

What do American’s think about the value of a college education today, particularly the perceived advantages of a sheepskin from the hallowed halls of the most prestigious institutions? Rasmussen has released some interesting results of what James Joyner called “one of the dumbest polls ever.”

Ronald Reagan was the last president we had who didn’t graduate from an Ivy League school like Harvard or Yale, and the highest levels of government for much of the nation’s history have been filled with Ivy League grads. But that doesn’t seem to influence the thinking of most American Adults.

In fact, only three percent (3%) say individuals who go to Ivy League schools are better workers than those who go to other schools.

Joyner’s first beef with this analysis is that there is very little correlation between the perceived qualifications to be the Commander in Chief and what sets one up to be a “good worker,” and that’s a fair complaint. But he also delves a bit deeper into the general value of a college education for job seekers. In particular he responds to the survey’s findings that, “an overwhelming majority of Americans (81%) said that people learn more practical skills through life experiences and work after college rather than in college.”

I’ve got a PhD and could have told you that before starting grad school. College is only tangentially about teaching practical skills; it’s about preparing the mind for a life of learning.

Whether it’s a cultural backlash against a presumed “intellectual elite” run amok or a response to economic conditions, perceptions of the university system have clearly shifted. A good part of that likely comes more from the latter (fiscal worries) than the former. Last year the average debt carried by college grads rose to $24,000, with many of them still facing a brutal employment market which found too many of them flipping burgers rather than working in their chosen field of study. Alarm bells were being sounded several years ago over the fact that tuition costs had doubled over the last decade while wages had remained stagnant.

And it’s important to note that the average costs and debt cited include far, far more people who went to lower cost state and local colleges. The ones laying out higher prices for big ticket degrees frequently found themselves in even more daunting circumstances.

Many in the next generation of workers will be so debt-burdened that they will have to delay home purchases, limit vacations, even eat out less to pay loans off on time.

Kristin Cole, 30, who graduated from Michigan State University’s law school and lives in Grand Rapids, Mich., owes $150,000 in private and government-backed student loans. Her monthly payment of $660, which consumes a quarter of her take-home pay, is scheduled to jump to $800 in a year or so, confronting her with stark financial choices.

I could never buy a house. I can’t travel. I can’t do anything,” she said. “I feel like a prisoner.

The reality is that things have changed drastically since the “happy days” when people with a high school education felt they might still rise up through the ranks from starting in the mail room to become the president of the company. Employers want a college degree for most high paying positions before they’ll even let you in the door for an interview. But are those the only routes available during such challenging economic times?

Anecdotally, I’m seeing a lot more young people today staying in the local area for two years in a community college and then finishing up with two more in a state school where prices for residents can be kept down. Further, increasing numbers of financially strapped families are seeing their kids exploring the option of the military in order to get a free or vastly cheaper education upon completion of a tour of duty. Others are also skipping the college life and heading into technical schools after completing high school.

This brings us back to the disappointing fact that there are virtually no high schools left in America which include shop classes as part of the curriculum, preparing students for work in the trades. It’s apparently a near criminal act to suggest that some students may not want to get a degree, but choose rather to get a job after high school, holding open the option of pursuing a sheepskin later on through continuing adult education in the evenings.

And that’s kind of sad. Given the staggering unemployment rates facing the workforce, every possible option should probably be on the table. I personally know one young man in my town who went into an apprentice program for HVAC after high school. A few years later he not only has no lingering college debt hanging over his head, but is making enough money that he’s looking at buying his first home already at the age of 25. (In a rather ironic twist, some of his former classmates with BA degrees are coming back and asking him about job opportunities.)

Don’t come away from this with the impression that I’m saying college is useless. It’s not. But given the spiraling costs involved and the challenges facing American families, it may not be the only path for parents and students to explore come graduation time. No, you’re not going to walk into a seven figure job on Wall Street without getting that high priced, top end diploma, but how many people will realistically do that each year? It’s akin to being pretty good at basketball and pinning all your plans on making it to the NBA draft. Good work if you can get it, but real world skills and a solid work ethic are still important and will serve some people better than a string of letters after your name from “the right school.”

Blowback

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As the mom of a high school senior, I appreciate this story. My son has applied to one really expensive university, and it is his dream school, but also probably the best choice given the career he wants. But he has also applied to a local university and already been accepted with a substantial scholarship. If Expensive U. doesn’t give him a lot of financial aid he knows he isn’t going there. I won’t let him come out saddled with debt.

I went to my State U. but got a graduate degree from Harvard. That’s the way to go IMO. Nobody cares where my undergrad degree is from, and it cost my parents next to nothing.

rockmom on March 14, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Last weekend, our band booster was handling the concessions for a huge contest (3000 registered competitors). Half way through the morning, I noticed the main freezer (with the ice cream) didn’t seem as cool as it should be. I checked the plug ins and breakers – and all was good on that end. I called my two teenage boys over to check the motor. Sure enough, the motor wasn’t working properly. With 2 screwdrivers, a pair of pliers and a roll of electrical tape, they had the freezer back to working properly in under 10 minutes.

The whole time a roomful of teachers – most with at least one advanced level degree, and a couple with PhD’s – were standing around with their jaws hanging open, asking whether I should be letting the boys “work on that”? Come to find out that the freezer hadn’t been working consistently for several months, so instead of calling a repairman and having the motor checked, they had ordered a new one – for $2600.

They were amazed that my boys knew how to fix the motor – they’re the same teachers who tell me my kids will never “hold down a real job”, because they’re both severely dyslexic, they barely keep up “gentlemen’s C’s”. They don’t like it when I remind them that my boys don’t have to hold down a job – they’ll own the company because as parents we stressed not only education but practical knowledge on all of our kids!

I won’t discuss the “A students” who were waiting on customers that I was supervising who couldn’t handle simple math in their head, didn’t have working memory to master the menu prices or keep up with multiple items in an order or make change. Things I’ve been teaching my kids since they were very young.

2nd Ammendment Mother on March 14, 2011 at 1:33 PM

I forgot to mention that our 3 oldest, very dyslexic children who barely made it out of high school are all “A” students at very good State Universities which are reasonably priced and have average class sizes of 25 for general subjects and 18 for advanced classes within your major…. and all the same “state of the art” equipment that the big guys have. More importantly, they’re all working part time and responsibly maintaining their apartments, paying their bills and being generally decent citizens.

2nd Ammendment Mother on March 14, 2011 at 1:37 PM

I think part of the problem with the school system today is they are busy trying to make all students into college students. Rather than looking at the student’s talents & interests, school teachers, counselors and administrators are busy pushing the kids into college and debt. Frankly, not every kid should do college at age 18, or ever. They can always go back if/when they develop an interest. What ever happened to offering skilled technical training? Too many companies are employing college grads who know lots about business and marketing but nothing about the nuts and bolts of their industry. Workers with technical skills will always find jobs and not have to sit on unemployment lines or flip burgers.

gobblemom on March 14, 2011 at 1:51 PM

rockmom on March 14, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Better to complete core courses locally, then transfer out.

blatantblue on March 14, 2011 at 5:16 PM

I graduated college 10 years ago. As far as I see it, curriculum related to your major…and in a perfect world, your job after college…was important, and I learned the skills I needed. But the general stuff, like 100-and 200-level classes such as Botany, math classes, Geology, etc. I learned in high school.

Colleges should be far more specific in regards to one’s major, rather than waste time (and my parents’ money) teaching me that “well-rounded” classes I already took and know. High School is the place for these general studies courses anyway.

And if I was going to college just now, I think I’d go for my Masters for sure…a Bachelors isn’t what it used to be, everyone has one.

JetBoy on March 14, 2011 at 5:23 PM

I can’t speak to the other professions, but the legal profession is a nuclear wasteland right now.

There are top-tier law school graduates working at Starbucks. There are many law school graduates looking to get into ANY other field. Debt of $200,000 is not uncommon.

There are many folks in that MSU Law grad’s position, wishing they’d gone to bartender school or trucker school. Or anything useful at all.

For a whole lot of horror stories, start here:

http://www.qfora.com/jdu/

Professor Blather on March 14, 2011 at 5:23 PM

rockmom on March 14, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Better to complete core courses locally, then transfer out.

blatantblue on March 14, 2011 at 5:16 PM

I did something similar…took 3 courses over 2 Summers at one of the local Community Colleges near U of Md, and transferred them, saving time and money. I made sure they’d transfer first tho.

JetBoy on March 14, 2011 at 5:26 PM

3 Problems with college today:

1. Unless it’s Harvard or Yale, anyone spending $40K a year for college is an imbecile. Go to a state school for $4K a year instead and your degree is just as good.

2. People go to college expecting to learn a skill with which to get a job. If that’s your goal, go to a tech school or community college. College should be for learning not learning job skills.

3. There are too many colleges. Which means anyone who wants to go can go. Which means the value of every diploma is watered down since there are really no standards anymore for getting into college.

angryed on March 14, 2011 at 5:33 PM

It’s a waste of our country’s resources to try to force everybody to follow the same path out of high school. My sister has a bachelor’s and a master’s–and she’s a housewife. Maybe when her four kids are older it will come in handy, but for now she sees her education as a waste.

I tried over many years and at many colleges to just get my bachelor’s, and only made it halfway through. I’ve watched morons get promoted over me because they had degrees, even if it wasn’t even the field we were working in, and for years not having my degree really bothered me.

But somehow I lucked out. Husband (who also never got his bachelor’s) has a great paying job that supports us both, and for the first time ever–I’m considering going back to school–just to learn. Not to get a piece of paper, not to get a job, not to have a certain GPA, just to learn about stuff I want to learn about. Going to school to learn–who would have thought…

Polynath on March 14, 2011 at 5:44 PM

When I was in college, I worked part time as a laborer and then a millright at a steel mill. Positions would open up from time to time and I would tell my friends about them saying I could put in a good word if they wanted the job. The answer was always no .. they didn’t want to work in a dirty mill. I told them the money was two or three times as good as the retail outfits they worked in but it never seemed to change their minds. Oh sure, they all went to “college” but nearly all dropped out from time to and languished for years on that bachelors in liberal arts, and to what end? They still work bad jobs for little pay.

Nearly all my friends have something in common though, they are almost all white, come from middle class families, have professional parents, and have been told flat out that a 4 year college degree was their only path.

DJ Rick on March 14, 2011 at 5:47 PM

3 Problems with college today:

1. Unless it’s Harvard or Yale, anyone spending $40K a year for college is an imbecile. Go to a state school for $4K a year instead and your degree is just as good.

2. People go to college expecting to learn a skill with which to get a job. If that’s your goal, go to a tech school or community college. College should be for learning not learning job skills.

angryed on March 14, 2011 at 5:33 PM

This.

If you can get out of college with minimal or zero debt, go.

If you want to learn a skill and actually be immediately employable in this economy, go to a tech school.

I personally advise every kid going to college to ALSO pick up some immediately usable skill: bartending, carpentry, whatever.

Professor Blather on March 14, 2011 at 5:52 PM

Oh sure, they all went to “college” but nearly all dropped out from time to and languished for years on that bachelors in liberal arts, and to what end? They still work bad jobs for little pay.

Nearly all my friends have something in common though, they are almost all white, come from middle class families, have professional parents, and have been told flat out that a 4 year college degree was their only path.

DJ Rick on March 14, 2011 at 5:47 PM

I know a lot of lawyers – some from very good schools – that would take you up on that offer to work in a mill in a heartbeat.

What general area do you live in? Seriously.

Professor Blather on March 14, 2011 at 5:53 PM

Eight years this December.

If I could do those 4.5 years at State U. over again – I probably wouldn’t. Pretty sure I didnt learn anything about business or computers that I didnt already know, or would have picked up by just working in a grocery store from bag-boy to store manager to regional manager. Or something like that. Still, at the time, a Bachelor degree was the way to go, and my parents were so proud that I was the first child (on both sides of the tree) to go to a four-year university.

Or I’d have majored in Accounting and Nursing since there never seems to be any shortage of those jobs. Blech.

Jeddite on March 14, 2011 at 6:50 PM

All depends on what you make of it. College improved my life immeasurably. However, I did wait four years after graduating high school to begin, so my life experience (working, paying bills, etc.) may have made me a bit more mature and motivated than many students who start right after high school.

IU_Conservative on March 14, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Anecdotally, I’m seeing a lot more young people today staying in the local area for two years in a community college and then finishing up with two more in a state school where prices for residents can be kept down.

That’s exactly what my youngest is doing. He finished up his general ed requirements at a local community college and is now a Junior at a state university, also local so he commutes (no boarding expenses…yay!). He’ll have his BA in about a year with no debt.

flipflop on March 14, 2011 at 7:06 PM

If you want to work for a BigCorp then where you get your undergraduate degree is of little importance. Almost all that matters is that (a) you have one from (b) an accredited institution that will (c) certify they gave it to you and provide the transcripts when HR contacts them. That is all. Seriously — that’s it.
As for trades — that’s a joke now. Most trade schools now are just set up to vacuum money from Uncle Sam as student loans (which the kid gets stuck with). If your father is in a union and is a long time member in good standing then you will get taken on as an apprentice. No one else will however. Because (a) on the low end the trade jobs are done by illegals (so they won’t hire you) and (b) on the high end they have millions of laid off skilled tradesman so they don’t need another newbie apprentice.
And that is the way it is.

SunSword on March 14, 2011 at 7:18 PM

I dropped out of college after two years… my friends continued on and are stuck with debt out their ears. One of my friends has multiple degrees in physics, math, programming, teaching.. etc.. and he was slinging coffee up until last year.

I own my own business and am doing just fine. I have learned so much more in the past decade on my own and from the internet than I ever learned in public schools or attending a university.

This is probably one of the most interesting reads I have ever seen on HOTAIR.

Reading the comments is really helping me decide in how to raise my kids and what direction I should be steering them for their future.

Thanks to everyone on here!

johnnyboy on March 14, 2011 at 7:50 PM

And that is the way it is.

SunSword on March 14, 2011 at 7:18 PM

You speak truths.

ericdijon on March 14, 2011 at 8:25 PM

You can’t possibly repay $150,000 in school loans at $800 per month (15.6 years) and live without great sacrifice unless you get a job that pays you at least 3 times that (net) per week and you pay the loans off ahead of schedule in balloon payments.

ericdijon on March 14, 2011 at 8:32 PM

Moral of the story: don’t depend on something the government controls or has major influence over, as your pathway to the future.

J.E. Dyer on March 14, 2011 at 8:55 PM

“I could never buy a house. I can’t travel. I can’t do anything,” she said. “I feel like a prisoner.”

Economic slavery.

dominigan on March 15, 2011 at 2:34 PM

As the manager of a small-mid sized manufacturing plant I read stories like these with great interest. A couple of points from my experience in manufacturing:

1) We really need the shop and technical training in high schools back. There are a LOT of people who will not go to college and will not become white collar professionals. They can do very well for themselves if they can master a trade. Like 2nd amendment mom’s post: kids need hands on real life training.

2) When it comes to most managerial or leadership positions in manufacturing, my experience is that intelligent hard working high school graduates will perform better than “professionals” with college degrees. Some of this relates to the hands on experience mentioned above. The intelligent hard worker will learn and then dig in and solve problems. The college grad will most likely try to delegate or call someone else in to fix the problem.

I’ve seen that scenario play out time and time again. Thus I look for hard working motivated people who can learn and drive themselves to succeed. If they have those skills, I can teach them Quality assurance or Scheduling or anything else. Having a college degree means almost nothing to me when I hire.

Free Indeed on March 16, 2011 at 10:30 AM

I completed my first degree at age 56, after many years of part-time night school college.

The jr. colleges I attended sometimes had excellent course content, but very often were clogged with problem students who were there to qualify for Social Security payments, disrupting classes and dumbing down courses. Few of these people had any business in a college.

After YEARS of this, I had not even got an AA, and every transfer seemed to lose credits… Finally chose an online school, partly because I’m rural and commuting to a brick school was not doable. Took 1.5 years to complete, at a cost of <$10K. I was happy with it, it wasn't phony, and being able to go at my own rate was important to me, as a degree was a life goal.

Main observation – most of my college was less challenging than high school in the '60s. It didn't make me smarter. My degree basically proves I can follow directions.

jodetoad on March 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM

How are you supposed to prove to the world that you can drink like a fish and have an embarrassing video posted on YouTube recounting the experience without a college degree?

stevehorth on March 17, 2011 at 11:48 AM