Burning Korans? I’m Agin It
posted at 2:13 pm on September 6, 2010 by J.E. Dyer
File this one under “Maybe not quite as bad as the Westboro ‘Baptist-in-scare-quotes’ hooligans but pretty darn close.” An enterprise called the Dove World Outreach Center, in Gainesville, Florida, is planning to burn Korans on the anniversary of 9/11.
Dove lists ten reasons why it’s appropriate to burn the Koran. You can read the reasons and form your own opinion. As a Christian myself, I find a number of the doctrinal points valid – but not as reasons for burning a text that disputes the Old and New Testaments.
Dove cites, as justification, a passage in the book of Acts that describes converts to Christianity burning the books and implements they had used previously to engage in “magical arts” (e.g., sorcery). The passage is Acts 19:18-20. But the most obvious points about this event are that the converts (a) were already converted, and (b) decided on their own to burn the trappings of their former life.
If a Christian convert from Islam wants to burn his own Koran, more power to him. Don’t do it in fire season in southern California. But there is nothing in the New Testament that would prescribe it as a Christian act to burn Korans – piles of paper with words on them – preemptively. In fact, Christianity is compatible with intellectual freedom for others precisely because it is not a collectivist faith that locates salvation in earthly outcomes. It took the West centuries of predatory monarchy and temporal church organizations to iron this out, and get the mechanical activities of human political organization out of the life of the church. Believing you need, as a Christian witness, to make symbolic statements like this is a big step backward.
It’s not Christianity to engage in gratuitous offense. We all sometimes fall short of the standard in this regard, but it’s another thing altogether to go out of your way to deviate from it. Sometimes it’s necessary to say what you believe is true, even though others will be angry. But it is never necessary to symbolically burn what others believe in that you think is not true. If the others decide they want to repudiate their past by burning things, that’s between them and the local fire chief.
Fortunately, Dove is one small organization. I assume the government authorities will treat Dove’s plan as freedom of speech, as they have whenever Christian symbols have been immolated, covered with dung, and urinated on. Dove has every right under the First Amendment to burn the Koran. But if doing so were to invite retaliation, of a kind that made the US authorities take a reactionary look at one of our most basic liberties, it would be tragic – and I don’t use the word lightly – that what started the whole thing was an un-Christian and unnecessary act.
Cross-posted at The Optimistic Conservative.
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Tragic, indeed. I also find it quite tragic that routine government violation of the free exercise clause of the first amendment has driven some to this misguided act of desperation.
gryphon202 on September 6, 2010 at 2:34 PM
J.E.,
I agree the 1st sees to it this church can do this if they choose. The PGR sees to it that the westboro church members, doing their 1st, are kept away from funerals of our military. It seems the rop type around the world are already getting bent out of shape about this possible koran burning. American’s have a deep feeling about Sept. 11. All this mosque thing at ground zero is not helping one bit either. It seems some have to ‘give’ and others ‘take’ with this rop type.
L
letget on September 6, 2010 at 2:34 PM
J.E., I agree as well. It’s an unwise decision and a bad precedent to start. It might also be in the best interests of peaceful dialog if the Muslims cooled their heels on this one. I was reading this morning about plans for retaliation. I still haven’t seen much evidence of tolerance on the part of the Muslim community when it comes to real or perceived threats.
Howard Portnoy on September 6, 2010 at 2:41 PM
Nor will you probably ever, Howard. Everything that our constitution is, Islam is not. Everything that Islam is, our constitution is not. It’s a fundamental incompatibility.
Is that a reason to burn Korans? No. But it’s an absolute take-it-to-the-bank fact.
gryphon202 on September 6, 2010 at 2:47 PM
The equivalent of Israelis burning copies of Mein Kampf on Yom Hashoa. I’ll be glad to donate some lighter fluid.
Luka on September 6, 2010 at 2:58 PM
So was Mein Kampf. Words can kill.
Luka on September 6, 2010 at 3:02 PM
Gratuitous: being without apparent reason, cause, or justification.
It is hardly gratuitous as the reason, cause and justification are all but infinite.
Luka on September 6, 2010 at 3:08 PM
Good points.
My take is that they have the right to do this, but it’s a very bad idea. But, maybe this Christian’s been spending too much time reading Proverbs (stirring up strife, etc.)
cs89 on September 6, 2010 at 3:16 PM
The Koran is an instruction manual for the extermination of liberty and decency and for all of humanity that gets in the way. Blowtorch them.
Luka on September 6, 2010 at 3:18 PM
Meh. I’m really trying to care, but I just…can’t…quite..bring myself to worry about burning korans. Go ahead if you want.
Just make sure to do it safely, don’t start a forest fire, and make sure you own a gun and take different routes to and from work every day for the rest of your life. You know, because the people that follow the peaceful religion of which the books you are burning belong to will probably try to kill you. For peace, that is.
Living4Him5534 on September 6, 2010 at 3:31 PM
To what end? What good will it do?
gryphon202 on September 6, 2010 at 4:02 PM
Raise awareness and bring clarity. Something which among many is soulfully lacking.
Luka on September 6, 2010 at 5:05 PM
Jesus told of a traveler who was robbed, beaten and left half dead. The men who did this were wicked and did a very wicked thing. But the Levite and priest allowed this evil to continue unanswered by doing nothing as they each “passed by on the other side” (Luke 10:31-32). Fortunately for the traveler there was one man, a Samaritan, who was willing to stand up for what was right (Luke 10:33-36).
Jesus warned “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad” (Matt. 12:30). In the fight against evil there is no middle ground, no gray area, no neutrality. Those who are not actively and vigorously fighting against evil are helping evil to triumph. And this applies even more to those who would attack those fighting evil.
Luka on September 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM
Lets do it first , to find out .
Lets see how far the ‘religion of peace’ goes to protect the 1st Am rights of people their book tells them to kill or convert .
macncheez on September 6, 2010 at 7:49 PM
I’m sorry, but that’s actually less logical than blaming guns.
Esthier on September 6, 2010 at 8:14 PM
We must all tip-toe through the Tulips
When it comes to the koran, you see
And so tip-toe through the Tulips
To the slaughter go we
Cheshire Cat on September 6, 2010 at 9:50 PM
In what way is it a Christian act to burn a book? That’s the standard that ought to apply. The reason it should apply is that the organization in question is a Christian outreach group. It proclaims Christian outreach as its mission.
But Christianity has no interest in burning books. That’s an ineffective and mistargeted way to fight evil, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the positive and peaceful act of proclaiming the gospel.
There is no useful strategy that requires doing everything we know will enrage Muslims, just to prove we can. Pass this through any filter you want, and there’s still no reason to do it.
Don’t mistake belligerence and symbolic triumphalism for strength or courage. That’s what gang-bangers and radical Islamists do.
J.E. Dyer on September 6, 2010 at 10:20 PM
It is now 3 days since Iran whipped a woman 99 times in prison for not wearing a headscarf, and who they are seeking to stone to death. We better fight this goddamn darkness anyway we can, and I will align with anyone who is taking a stand from Geert Wilders to a “redneck” American church that at least is expressing their opinion of this scourge of humanity while some others go into a PC self-righteous, holier than thou frenzy. 1,400 years is enough dammit!
Jeckle on September 6, 2010 at 11:55 PM
Your attempt at moral equivalence between the members of this church and gang-bangers and ‘radical Islamists’ is deplorable.
Jeckle on September 6, 2010 at 11:58 PM
While you are going moral equivalence PC bonkers, why don’t you equate them, and all who have some understanding of them, with Al Queda and Genghis Khan too. Or maybe with Mohammad aslo, as you might as well go completely bonkers.
Jeckle on September 7, 2010 at 12:02 AM
Jeckle, perhaps you would go ahead and explain what’s Christian about burning a book. What purpose is there for a Christian to do it? It is perfectly possible to express your opinion of both Islam and Islamic extremism, clearly and fearlessly, without burning a book. Why do it?
J.E. Dyer on September 7, 2010 at 12:34 AM
OK, in the spirit of compromise, let’s ask them to stone it instead. I think somewhere someone already suggested that, given that there is much approval for stoning in the koran. This should satisfy all reasonable people. What say you? Will you push for this or will you remain obstinate?
Jeckle on September 7, 2010 at 1:02 AM
It most likely doesn’t matter either way. The ones prone to outrageous outrage will find a reason to vent, scream, threaten, and blow stuff up. If they can’t find a reason, they’ll drum one up right away. They always do. They always will.
To repeat: Doesn’t matter.
hillbillyjim on September 7, 2010 at 1:19 AM
To insult irrational authority is not only your right…it is your obligation as a free person.
For too long, we have been tolerant of intolerance.
You can only placate for so long. Coexistence is a game of give and take. We’re tired of unrequited giving. It’s time they learn how to show tolerance.
Chaz706 on September 7, 2010 at 5:08 AM
Well written, J.E.
itsnotaboutme on September 7, 2010 at 8:43 AM
*facepalm*
itsnotaboutme on September 7, 2010 at 9:38 AM
So if atheists aren’t getting together and burning bibles, they’re “tiptoeing”?
MadisonConservative on September 7, 2010 at 10:37 AM
That’s still ridiculous and though the Koran may encourage stoning, the New Testament does the opposite. Do you want to live by the Koran, or the Bible?
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 11:21 AM
Thanks, Esthier. Of course there’s no point in “stoning” the Koran.
The argument that physically attacking the Koran must be a powerful action, because it upsets Muslims, is about as silly an argument as there is. If your lazy fat slob kid calls you “Old meanie!” and you call him “Lazy fat slob!” back, and that upsets him, have you done something useful and powerful? Or have you merely shown him how to behave like a jackass?
Destruction is something that should be wielded responsibly, and only for motives that matter and will make a real difference. Not spiraling into a cycle of it over symbolic games of tag is a hallmark of Western civilization. We can’t start burning things preemptively, because we dislike other things, and remain ourselves.
I have no problem with the charge of “moral equivalence” in this case. It is morally equivalent to posit that God the Father requires us to burn other people’s stuff in the name of Jesus. That’s what those who think Mohammed was His prophet do. It’s not what Christians do.
As for what the West does: if necessary, we regime-change those whose attitude just won’t improve. Of course, when the wisdom-challenged among us elect a president like Barack Obama, we have to clean up our own house first.
J.E. Dyer on September 7, 2010 at 2:07 PM
Well if J.E. Dyer and Esthier agree, that must settle the matter right there! You can not be serious.
Red Herring. No one has made this argument as stated by you.
It’s not a building. It’s not people. It’s a book. It’s a book owned by those who would burn it. Although I would prefer that they stone it as Islam much approves of stoning. But it is their book, so they have the right to burn it or stone as they please.
Why don’t you just blockquote what others have said rather than using your own made up version to argue with?
Unreal. Absolutely unreal. You think burning paper is terrible, but think it’s fine to kill muslims, and get Americans killed, which would obviously happen with attitude adjustment/”regime-change”. You have now reached the point where you value paper over human lives. Your position has reached utter absurdity.
(Oh BTW, Shariah is in the U.S. sponsored constitutions of both Iraq and Afghanistan.)
Jeckle on September 7, 2010 at 2:41 PM
I suppose you could decide that it’s a nice way to age the book, but I can’t see what other purpose it could serve.
Certainly. If we’re going to make a declaration about riding our lives of something we consider an impediment to a relationship with God, we do it with things we already own, as you said about, with things from our own past lives.
Burning the Koran is no more logical than any other book burning idea.
Actually, plenty have made this argument.
But this argument hasn’t been made. Of course they have the right. No one’s saying otherwise.
I don’t even see how you’re reading the same thing I am.
You’re fine with insults, because hey, “1,400 years is enough dammit!” But you never even explain why this is a good idea.
For one, stoning a book is just, no offense intended, stupid because it’s a book. You don’t even destroy it with stones. You may as well spit at it. And then what? What have you actually done with this insulting gesture except insult a large group of people?
How is this Christian, and why should it be done?
For another, you’re the one talking about how people are being killed anyway under the current regime. Removing that regime in order to stop those deaths isn’t valuing paper over human lives. The two aren’t even connected.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 4:02 PM
I must concur with Esthier here again, who has parsed the points raised by Jeckle quite well. I don’t know that there’s much value in continuing the debate on the terms favored by Jeckle. I will simply state again that there is nothing Christian about burning the Koran. This is partly because there is nothing Christian about expressing pointless, ineffective anger, and partly because there is nothing Christian about giving offense for no good purpose.
Sometimes we have to do things that do have a purpose, even though we know they’ll give offense. In those cases, we may acknowledge and prepare for it, but the offense is secondary. This is not one of those cases. Dove has a right to burn the Koran, but certainly not the Christian duty to burn it.
J.E. Dyer on September 7, 2010 at 5:53 PM
Too funny. The two of you can congratulate each other all you want, maybe even have a tingle or two like Chris Matthews, but your attempted assault on conscience and freedom has failed and done so epically.
HalJordan on September 7, 2010 at 9:51 PM
Dove Center should stop now. Their point has been made quite effectively. Just TALKING about burning a Koran has resulted in bible/flag/effigy burning protests by Muslims around the world…with calls for “Global Jihad”.
jbtripp on September 8, 2010 at 9:59 AM
How are we assaulting freedom? We’re not stopping the church from doing this. This kind of illogical rhetoric was used against me when I said the mosque is insensitive. It was ridiculous then and ridiculous now.
Freedom of speech goes both ways. If you can’t accept that, then you’re the one who doesn’t understand the 1st.
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM
Burning korans is not the answer. Just think of the dreadful carbon footprint left behind. Who’s up for shredding instead and donating the confetti to animal shelters for cute puppies to frolic in and TO POOP ON!
Western_Civ on September 8, 2010 at 11:11 AM
I don’t agree with the Quran-burning as ceremony (as representational of “points” and such) BUT this is one small gathering in Florida that consists of FIFTY people and one pastor.
And, about that, they’ve made international headlines, riots have occurred, people’s lives have been threatened and worse, Christianity is being bashed and Christians denigrated, our nation’s Leftwing politicians have all made loud protestations and publicly, including the SoS, Hillary Clinton and President, Barack Obama and for heaven’s sake, even General Patraeus…isn’t this all entirely out of proportion with the burning that is planned?
It’s one guy in one small group acting dubiously but he’s using his own property and not threatening the property of others or engaging in other forms of crime and social/political offenses.
So I don’t *get* the global meltdown that’s ensued about this. Nor do I *get* the “ardent” response (includes by the Vatican) against this fellow and his plan.
It seems as if it’s just another means by the Left to try to disparage “Americans” and place Christ at the foot of Islam. I’m finding all the outrage and condemnation of this guy and his wayward plans far more offensive than the guy and his plans.
Lourdes on September 8, 2010 at 12:03 PM
I agree as to how you describe the Koran there (“an instruction manual for the extermination of liberty and decency and for all of humanity that gets in the way”).
At this rate, I tend to think that the less Korans in the world, the better. I’m exceptionally bothered, too, by the response by the denouncers — I mean, this is one fellow, fifty church members, it’s not like it’s a national plan to burn Korans, yet here we have a President, a Secretary of State, the Vatican, General Patraeus and more all denouncing the guy and his plans. It’s UNNATURAL to say the least.
Appeasing Islam is putting it lightly. And it is they who are placing our military at increased risk by acting like scared ninnies, not the guy in Florida.
Lourdes on September 8, 2010 at 12:10 PM
And Islam even took offense at Bernie from Sesame Street, a child’s puppet! I mean, it’s not like we’re having to contend with people who are sensible, think clearly and can be relied upon to behave in a civilized manner with others.
Patreaus is just wrong on this. He should never have spoken as he has on this issue, and if anything, he’s showing weakness in doing so.
Lourdes on September 8, 2010 at 12:13 PM
Of course, but that seems to have been the pastor’s intention. This is a PR stunt, and it will accomplish nothing more.
Their overreactions are wrong, but that doesn’t making book burning acceptable.
That said, I do agree with a point Ace has made that despite being told repeatedly that the extremists of Islam do not represent it, we’re not being told that this small church somehow represents American Christians. It’s a disgusting double standard that needs to die.
Then it would seem buying 50 or so Korans, just to burn them, isn’t really helping in that.
Besides, it’s still just a book. These 50 people don’t represent Christians, but it’s still not good PR to have a group of them supporting book burning of any kind.
If you find the “placing our soldiers in harm’s way” comment to be distasteful, why use it?
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 12:35 PM
yeah, I suppose that it’s a weakness not to want to needlessly stir up opposition to ourselves when we’re trying to put down an insurgency by convincing people that we’re not their enemies.
audiculous on September 8, 2010 at 12:43 PM
I assume some also consider it weakness to try and convince any Muslim that we’re not their enemies. If Islam is the problem, then we surely can’t fix it by getting friendly with any who follow it.
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 1:24 PM
Esthier, it’s not our task to change other people’s religions. That’s not really what we’re about, according to our Constitution.
Our military is expected to quell the fighting and thin the ranks of the people shooting at them.
I don’t consider it a weakness to try to avoid convincing people that we’re enemies until such time as we unavoidably are enemies.
audiculous on September 8, 2010 at 1:37 PM
I’m not disagreeing with you. Those aren’t my views. They’re just views I’ve encountered on this issue.
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 1:39 PM
FYI–I’ve not posted in awhile and only this morning did I read yours after posting my own on Palin’s response to the Koran burning (ashamed to admit that, actually). I certainly didn’t intend for that first portion to mirror yours so closely…I’m pulling it to edit. Just wanted you to know.
Great piece, by the way!
Bee on September 9, 2010 at 6:41 AM
Not to worry, Bee. Great minds do run together!
J.E. Dyer on September 9, 2010 at 10:55 AM