Burning Korans? I’m Agin It, Too (Plus Additional Thoughts)
posted at 4:46 pm on September 6, 2010 by Howard Portnoy
Following up on a post by my learned colleague and friend, J.E. Dyer on the announced plans of a church in Florida to burn a copy of the Koran on the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, I would like to comment on the reaction of Afghans to the annoucement.
This morning, several hundred of them, mostly students, rallied outside a mosque in Kabul. The protesters were well within their rights and morally justified to boot. The desecration planned by Dove World Outreach Center, of Gainesville, Florida, is hateful and unwarranted and has correctly been condemned by religious and political leaders in this country.
Now it is the turn of religious and political leaders in Afghanistan to do the same regarding the demonstrators, who chanted “Death to America” – an action that is equally over-the-top and uncalled for. For a religion that is purportedly one of peace, Islam’s practitioners seem a little trigger happy with the death threats any time they perceive even the hint of a threat.
One of the more level-headed protesters was a student by the name of Wahidullah Nori, who is quoted by Reuters as saying, “We call on America to stop desecrating our Holy Koran.” To him I would say, “Not America, friend, but a handful of people among the 308 million who make their home within the country’s borders.” Singling out the entire nation for the actions of a tiny segment of its population is like – well, singling out an entire religion for the actions of a tiny segment of its adherents that express their “piety” by commandeering jet planes and flying them into buildings.
If Afghanistan’s leaders need help with their statement condemning the ugly remarks by the protesters, here’s a model they can use. It is part of the statement issued this morning by the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, and it reads “Americans from all religious and ethnic backgrounds reject this offensive initiative by this small group in Florida.” It should be fairly easy to plug in the right references.
Since the death threats against America became a reality for 3,000 of our civilians on September, 2001, I would in general expect a little more tolerance from Muslims when these exchanges occur.
Follow me on Twitter or join me at Facebook. You can reach me at howard.portnoy@gmail.com or by posting a comment below.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »
Then you won’t mind if I do it.
gryphon202 on September 6, 2010 at 11:45 PM
It is now 3 days since Iran whipped a woman 99 times in prison for not wearing a headscarf, and who they are seeking to stone to death. We better fight this goddamn darkness anyway we can, and I will align with anyone who is taking a stand from Geert Wilders to a “redneck” American church that at least is expressing their opinion of this scourge of humanity while some others go into a PC self-righteous, holier than thou frenzy. 1,400 years is enough dammit!
Jeckle on September 6, 2010 at 11:48 PM
Well, you heard it here first folks. I’m a dhimmi and a hypocrite for rightfully pointing out the belligerence and meaningless triumphalism expressed in a book burning by a Chrstian church. To those few that came (or will come) to my defense, thank you. To my critics, good night and good luck.
gryphon202 on September 6, 2010 at 11:48 PM
You sound very whiny. Are you related to Barry?
Jeckle on September 6, 2010 at 11:54 PM
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 12:00 AM
Not at all.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 12:03 AM
Same reason Christians were upset at seeing a cross in urine or Mary covered in excrement.
Sure. Who’s saying they aren’t?
Sure, from both sides, including those who support burning the Korans but not the building.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 12:04 AM
If you believe that all Muslims are the problem and that no moderates exist that are worth respecting enough to refrain from burning their holy book unprovoked, then why do you care when one of them is harmed? How can you on the one hand, speak about that woman as though you care what happens to her, but on the other speak of her and all who worship like her as enemies?
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 12:08 AM
gryphon202 on September 6, 2010 at 11:44 PM
You make many assumptions and sure take offense to anyone who doesn’t conform to your specific opinion.
My comment of “many people”, in fact, was not in any way a reference to you. I don’t know if you’re a hypocrite. You’re comments seem to be at least consistent. Lighten up.
I’m pretty sure that nothing I said was in support of the burning either. In fact, my opinion on this is the same as I feel, and as you have stated, that this shouldn’t happen just as the mosque should be moved.
I haven’t gone to their website, but I will state that based on what I’ve read, the church folks are being much more honest and up front in their motives than the Park51 people.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 12:15 AM
If the gesture were in fact ‘impotent’ then it wouldn’t be eliciting the reaction it is – namely muslims getting pissed. From a literal standpoint, the gesture is in fact not impotent so the argument that it is is a bad one. That was my point.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 12:22 AM
I really doubt that she worships like they do. She may have pretended to but apparently not well enough. I would not lump her in with them. The poor woman has enough problems as it is. Most woman in Islam are treated as property at risk of all manner of crimes against them if they “get out of line”. I would rather have been a slave in the old south.
Jeckle on September 7, 2010 at 1:12 AM
In the 1860′s the righteous cry was, “Free the Slaves!”.
It should be the same now.
Jeckle on September 7, 2010 at 1:14 AM
Islam is a religion of peace in their minds simply because when they have conquered the entire world with sharia, then there will be peace. That’s what they mean by that phrase.
itsnotaboutme on September 7, 2010 at 8:34 AM
It’s a stupid idea. Not for idealogical reasons but because who has a Koran lying around the house? Wouldn’t you have to buy one first?
Queen0fCups on September 7, 2010 at 9:15 AM
And my point is that plenty of Christians were pissed and Piss Christ or whatever it was called. Many Christians were deeply offended and outraged by what some jackass considers art.
Are you arguing that art that uses urine and dung is powerful?
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 11:22 AM
And most women in Islam have Muslim children, girls and boys. Heck, you want to stop Islam? They’re your preferred target. Take them out, and you take out future generations.
But to pretend like you care about this woman when you’re supporting something that would deeply offend her is too much of a stretch. If all Muslims are the enemy, then don’t pretend to care when one Muslim hurts another.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 11:25 AM
It’s like when the Beatles compared themselves to Jesus. Even those who weren’t Christians burned their albums… and then went and bought them back after the apology.
This is just as empty and thoughtless a gesture.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 11:30 AM
The moment I begin to pull my punches because of people’s tender internet feelings, I will post a memo.
Madam, I would submit that one should not care given the obvious animosity Islam holds towards said women who might be offended. We ought not hold back in confronting this violent and murderous philosophy/religion/culture simply because its victims have developed Stockholm syndrome.
I think you are off base in this. For the sake of the oppressed, we must not give in to the apparently widespread temptation to maintain our all-accepting philosophy of tolerance, and instead, stamp out the villains before they stamp out others, or, eventually, us.
As an afterthought, I do not think the women in question are truly that offended, seeing as how, according to the book, they’re going to hell anyhow, because (A. they’re too stupid to appreciate their husbands, and (B. they don’t pray often enough because of their periods. I wager it is more of a ‘living in fear’ kind of offense, which only serves to gall me all the more. Perhaps I am alone in that.
Either way, I know how God sees it, and it won’t be pretty when He’s through with these men.
KinleyArdal on September 7, 2010 at 12:09 PM
This, I agree with. I certainly have better things to do with a few thousand dollars than purchase copies of the pedophile’s memoirs and light the barby up.
KinleyArdal on September 7, 2010 at 12:11 PM
No.
I am arguing that the statement that the burning of the Korans is an “impotent” act, isn’t, given the reaction. That’s all.
I never said it wouldn’t be offensive, nor did I argue it was appropriate. I simply was pointing out the hypocrisy of many people (not commenters) on this issue by drawing parallels with the GZM.
One could also make the statement that your example was indeed offensive to many Christians around the world. Those same Christians didn’t take it as an opportunity to incite violence. Christians didn’t go on a bombing rampage destroying art galleries. Christians did protest and make their displeasure known, but didn’t take advantage of the situation to make a greater political point or as an excuse to kill people.
Why are Muslims so sensitive? Simply by being offended? Taking offense is not an excuse to kill. If that were the reasoning, then Christians around the world would be much more ‘justified’ resorting to violence than Muslims as your own example shows many more people take swipes at Christianity than Islam nowadays.
This also belies a fundamental problems with Islam and many Muslims. Taking offense at one time in the West WAS an excuse to kill. People realized though that behaving in such a way was stupid and society changed . Many Muslims have yet to progress that far – religiously, culturally, politically.
Are they worked up because they don’t like the desecration “of the literal word of God”? OK, but it’s still no reason to kill. It IS just a book. I, as a christian, believe the Bible to be the actual word of God. If someone burns a bible, I take great offense to that. Just as I take great offense to anyone burning the flag of the United States. That being said, God has given me the sense to know that a bible, a flag, whatever, is just a thing. Are we to assume that Allah hasn’t given the same sense to his followers?
Why do Muslims who are protesting, I dare say protesting which will include the burning of American flags, doing what they do? They burn flags because it is offensive, yet don’t think twice about it. But they demand no one burn a Koran? Where were the protests from these same people when ‘Piss Christ’ was on display? This is the hypocrisy.
They don’t care about any other religion or culture other than their own, yet when people from somewhere else engage in the same exact behavior they do by burning symbols they care for, then WE must stop OUR behavior.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 1:20 PM
Islam itself is not the villain. Muslims in general, are not our enemies.
We can easily take out the violent radicals without trying to take out all of them. But if we try to take out all of them, we are going to lose and rightfully so.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 1:24 PM
I understand that, given you’ve said this multiple times. My response, which I’ve also given multiple times, is that anger or offense taken at this gesture does not make the gesture any less impotent. To believe that it does, you must also believe Piss Christ isn’t impotent.
I personally, don’t.
We did the right thing. We aren’t immature children throwing tantrums. We don’t need to be congratulated, we just need to continue being adults.
Of course it’s not. I would think this went without saying.
On the other hand, just because Muslims are easily offended is no reason to try and offend them without provocation. I see this and Everybody Draw Mohamed Day as entirely different. One was a response to a threat, the other, an attempt to link all Muslims to 9/11.
Nor will they if they’re all collectively refereed to as the enemy. They’ll entrench themselves and spurn the more rational amongst them. That’s not excusing their backwards behavior, but when all, even the rational, are spurred by the West, it’s a logical course of action.
Yes, they’re hypocritical. I’m not arguing otherwise. That said, I see this and the mosque issue as very similar and see no problem with both being protested vehemently. Both may even see violence, as both insults cut deeply, but those who commit violence are still wrong.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 1:35 PM
Feelings and buttons are different creatures.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM
I
I’m not saying I disagree with you, but: Why?
Islam is not the villain? Why?
I would argue that a religion, generally speaking, isn’t ‘evil’ or ‘villianous’. Christianity had many adherents who did unspeakable things. It wasn’t until the religion underwent a Reformation that things began to change. It wasn’t until Western culture went through a period of Enlightenment that things began to change. Islam seems to be resisting, some would say purposefully, such a Reformation and Enlightenment.
Muslims in general are not our enemy? Which ones are?
By any rational analysis, Imam Rauf, the GZM imam is a radical who supports terror organizations and will not denounce acts of terror, yet is held out as a model ‘moderate’.
If Muslims can’t clarify their own ‘identity’ then how can any of us possibly do so?
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM
This planned burning is a result or at least comparable to the Planned victory mosque at the edge of Ground Zero.
Both could help terrorism recruiting and both are legal, but not the best idea to carry out. I bet if they cancelled the mosque, the burning would be cancelled too.
jeffn21 on September 7, 2010 at 1:46 PM
We don’t disagree.
Nice comment.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 1:47 PM
Also, I should add that Muslims in general get angrier when someone draws Mohammad, then when a Muslim kills thousands of people in the name of Allah. This is not just the extremists either. Afterall, they all want to see Sharia Law instituted throughout the world, including the US.
jeffn21 on September 7, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Really. Impressive generalization.
I suppose we can look past what reality seems to be by only reading certain things. Take a step back to realize you’re trying to explain to me how 1.5 billion people all apparently think in exact lockstep based on a religion that has many sects and spans many countries and cultures.
It doesn’t work. I vehemently argued against the Ground Zero Mosque, but I’m not going to be drawn into the “All the World’s Muslims are Evil” line of thought that seems to be an increasingly popular idea pushed in the comments at Hot Air.
Heralder on September 7, 2010 at 2:47 PM
I’m opposed to all book burnings but I don’t remember much censure from the left when this was proposed:
patch on September 7, 2010 at 3:26 PM
It’s good to keep in mind that the official US Government protest of the 9/11 attacks in NYC is still going strong in the form of about 50,000 troops in the AfPak theatre who are loaded for bear.
Robert17 on September 7, 2010 at 3:33 PM
Personally speaking, as a Christian, I believe that when God spoke in Jeremiah, saying that those who search for God will find God, he was talking about all forms of searching, even if it means searching through other religions.
That’s why when I read Ayan Hirshi Ali’s Infidel, I was sadden to read that she’d gone from being a devout Muslim to an atheist. I would agree with her that she was on the wrong specific path, but I wouldn’t agree she was completely going in the wrong direction.
I believe all religions, by themselves and without manipulation from religious authorities, have the potential to help mankind. I can see that Islam has serious problems that need to be addressed, but I have faith that these problems can be addressed and that once they are, the entire war on terrorism will drastically change for the better.
I see Islam itself as more of a potential ally/secret weapon.
I would argue that it isn’t Islam that’s rejecting this but rather religious leaders who understand that their power is being threatened with such a change. The Protestant Reformation wasn’t easy either.
Since we have gone through ours, I’d like to think we could help others with theirs.
They generally tell you, and I tend to take them at their word. Anyone who’s ever said, “Death to America” or who danced in the streets nearly nine years ago (exempting those who have since repented), or who preaches a message of brutality or the superiority of Sharia, anyone like that is our enemy. The same should be true of anyone, Muslim or not, who supports someone like that.
He’s held out as a moderate by those who pretend that only bigots oppose the mosque/cultural center. Support of Sharia Law (while only wanting to change the way it’s implemented without detailing specifics) is not moderate. Anyone claiming it is only slanders all truly moderate Muslims and is a bigot for setting the bar so low with this presumed logic that a Muslims would fail if it were set any higher.
We can’t, but that doesn’t mean we can’t reach out to those who forcefully speak out against the radical elements. If we see any Muslim Martin Luthers, we should embrace them and do what we can to help out. We can’t change them, but that doesn’t mean we’re completely worthless here.
Insulting all Muslims only works against that without helping anyone.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Thanks. I wasn’t completely sure where your position was beyond the minor one we were discussing.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 4:04 PM
It is not any longer a protest of the 9/11 attacks. It is “serving the people” of Afghanistan and their sharia consitution.
It is more like 100,000.
More like loaded with tea that they are drinking tea with muslim elders.
Luka on September 7, 2010 at 5:04 PM
“General Petraeus has reportedly expanded the ban on air strikes and artillery fire to all types of buildings, tree-lined areas and hillsides where it is difficult to distinguish who is on the ground.”
The fact is, not only has he deemed the ROE as proper, he has deemed it not tight enough.
Luka on September 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM
.
Why would God, speaking about searching for Him, be referring to “searching through other religions”? I think Jesus was pretty clear that unless you search for God through Him (Jesus) you were doing it wrong – “I am the Way, the Truth and the Light.”
Jesus wasn’t speaking of some philosophical search for personal fulfillment. He was telling everyone that unless you accepted him (Jesus) as the Savior, you were lost. Period. He wasn’t telling people that you could look to him (Jesus) and if you didn’t like what you saw you could search out the Father in some other way. That’s what ‘Christianity’ is, is it not?
If I’m misconstruing your statement, let me know. That’s what it seems like you meant.
Islam, as it’s constructed right now, IS its leadership. Islam as a religion hasn’t fractured as Christianity did into various sects, etc. You’re right that the Protestant Reformation wasn’t easy, but it did happen. Why? Because various folks took it upon themselves to change things. There is no current, widespread effort to do this with Islam.
Christianity ‘changed’ specifically because people who were Christians wanted to ‘go another direction’ with their faith. They saw problems with the strict dogma (mostly from Catholicism). Islam is missing this.
Some could argue that this whole situation is a kind of outreach. It won’t be taken that way, just as no one really believes the GZM folks have any real intention of being “inclusive” and teaching “tolerance”. Islam, as practiced by these folks is any but, but saying so is ‘bigoted’ or referred to as hate speech.
What happens if the pastor at the Florida church, with all the cameras and all the media attention at this ‘event’, strikes the match, places it close to a Koran, then stops, blows it out and says something like, “This is real ‘tolerance’.” And proceeds to talk about what true inclusiveness, etc. is? That would be the most awesome thing he could do.
Frankly, a little insult is what Muslims need right now. Muslims have gotten away with frightening, suppressing and killing any and all opposition that they are now used to getting everything they want, how they want it, on their own terms.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 5:43 PM
Whatever else this is, it isn’t a Christian perspective, catmman.
But aside from that, in the terms of operational effectiveness — simply doing things that will produce a desired outcome — what in the world does it mean? Do you seriously think it would make the Islamic world respect us more, and treat us better, if we insulted Muslims? And if that’s not the outcome you’re looking for, what do you think insulting Muslims will do that amounts to administering to them “what they need”? How are you defining this?
Of course people are angry about the advance of Islamism on the liberal West. But burning Korans isn’t the way to reverse that advance.
J.E. Dyer on September 7, 2010 at 6:00 PM
You are a little. Jesus is certainly THE way, but that’s to God. That doesn’t mean that there is only one way to Jesus. I used God before in part because Jesus and God are one in the same and because I’m thinking more long term than the step right before becoming a Christian.
I’m thinking in terms of driving North from Dallas, trying to end up in New York. There are many different roads I can take. Some will take me the wrong way for hours, and there may only be one road into New York (for analogy’s sake; I realize New York isn’t a one road city), but that doesn’t mean there’s only one way to that road and thus to New York.
God said in Jeremiah, “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you.”
This is OT, so obviously there was no mention of Jesus, but there’s no mention of going straight to scripture either. It’s a simple, “if you seek me, you will find me” promise.
Would you not agree that people who go to any religion are generally seeking God?
I’m not arguing that Jesus isn’t required (never would) but just that there is a promise that if you don’t stop looking for God that you will find him. I don’t feel the need to worry about the details on that, just as I don’t feel the need to worry about the details when Paul says that all men know of God, that creation itself gives testimony to this fact. Paul clearly isn’t talking about Jesus, his death or resurrection, but that doesn’t mean he’s talking about a knowledge that cannot lead to salvation.
Sorry for the double negatives.
Yes, but I think this is more complicated than most believe. My personal interpretation obviously. God is I AM, unchanging, and Jesus is The Word, which was always with God in the beginning (John paraphrases), so Jesus always was, and God always is and both never change. So if Jesus is The Way, then He always was, even before we learned who Jesus was. That would include people like Abraham and Moses, just as it includes people today who have never heard the word “Jesus” or its equivalent in their language.
I’ve never felt that ignorance of God was punished with hell. That’s never made sense to me. The first person sent there was sent because outright rebellion. I believe, all are sent there for that reason and that they choose hell because it is the only place where God is not Lord.
I believe that all know of God, as Paul says and that all either accept or reject God, but I also believe this is a process, one that I believe religion can help, no matter the religion. I believe the act of searching, if done earnestly, can lead to the fulfillment of the promise God gave in Jeremiah.
Much of that happened with Christianity after the Reformation, which we both agree Islam needs.
Widespread is difficult when you live in a country that makes it illegal to leave the house without a male guardian or in countries that have lived for decades in one war or another.
Doesn’t mean the desire isn’t there. Certain Muslims have spoken out in favor of reform. But since they’re not calling Americans racist or threatening violence, they’re often ignored.
How? Ayn Rand was as anti-Christian as they come. Would burning her books on her birthday or death date be considered outreach or do you think it would just offend people who would write off the church as too close-minded to be taken seriously?
Yes, it would, but it would also be a bit ridiculous considering he instigated this in the first place, and it would be completely at odds with his words on the subject.
That doesn’t justify insulting them for the sake of insulting them.
As I wrote earlier, I supported Everybody Draw Mohamed Day and would support it being an annual event, because that was done as a response to thuggery. This is done just to equate Islam with terrorism and get some PR out of it.
Nothing good will come from this.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 6:21 PM
Liberating over 50 million Muslims, Liberating Kuwait, Iraq and keeping Saudi Arabia (the ‘home’ of their religion) safe have done exactly what to make these folks respect us and treat us better?
I’m a Christian, but I’m not perfect.
I never said it was.
Doing positive things to produce a positive outcome hasn’t worked so well for us over the past thirty years.
People get tired of constantly getting smacked around, hearing constant demands from Muslims to NOT do things to offend their sensibilities. People get tired of that and this is what we get.
Perhaps if Muslims were a bit more open and actually tolerant of a differing opinion, this wouldn’t have happened? Muslims and many Muslim apologists constantly throw this in the face of people who want to respond in kind. BTW, I’m not saying you are a Muslim apologist, just making a statement.
Respect is a two way street. When one side of a relationship is the one doing all the ‘respecting’ that isn’t a relationship – one side has simply subjugated themselves to the other.
What do Muslims need? They need to grow up. They need to come into the 21st century. They need to reform their religion. They need to take it back from the radicals. They need to realize they are not going to rule the world and if they try, as is espoused by a majority of their religions leaders, they are going to be met with resistance – a resistance which takes many forms, including insult and ridicule.
I’m not saying that insult is the answer or even a answer, but we’ve tried just about everything else.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 6:27 PM
Too funny!
[Even] Mayor Bloomberg says he’s not against pastor’s planned Koran burning
HalJordan on September 7, 2010 at 6:29 PM
I guess you missed the conversation I had with “DJ” who continues to notch his M4. Says it’s hard to notch a spent grenade.
Robert17 on September 7, 2010 at 6:37 PM
So you agree then, that it isn’t Christian to burn the Koran, because others are trying to justify burning the Koran as some sort of Christian necessity.
You don’t think we’ve made any progress? I think part of what’s hurt us is our own government. We rush to help our allies or ignore them depending on who is in the White House, so it might be difficult for other countries to view us positively for long enough to make a real impact.
Esthier on September 7, 2010 at 6:39 PM
This is what I wrote yesterday:
Did you assume I supported the burning? Without reading my comments?
As to the rest of your comment. How much more do we need to do for these people? For at least twenty-years (since Gulf War I) we have gone out of our way to support Muslims. We have liberated their countries. Liberated their people from oppression. Shed our own blood for their sake. IMO gone above and beyond to try to give these people the break they needed to break free from their cycle of oppression. How much money (foreign aid) have we given to Muslim nations, especially in the ME over the last three decades? I don’t buy the argument that we ‘need to do more’ to earn their trust or get them to like us, respect us, whatever.
View us “positively”? That’s the Liberal view we also get beat over the head with: If only we didn’t do X, if only we would do X, they would ‘like’ us. If only President Obama bows one more time, then will they like us? If Hillary Clinton denounces any more of our history to the UN to show the world we are flawed and not better than anyone else, then will they like us? Do we need another Cairo speech?
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 8:17 PM
Of course the burning of the Korans won’t endear us to anyone. But stating simply that doing so won’t make them like us misses the point that they already don’t like us to the point they will put on a suicide belt and send in young woman to kill and use their own children as human shields, etc.
catmman on September 7, 2010 at 8:21 PM
I think the reaction speaks volumes and they really don’t need to burn anything.
tomas on September 7, 2010 at 10:09 PM
“That woman” does not have the right to choose how to believe and it’s childish to think she has been presented with other options besides “submission”. People in the west who are against the lashing and stoning..I presume some would think she favored that too if she was so devout, might care more about her than her fellow muslims or even she does herself.
I don’t care if she is offended by the acts of a few people in Florida.
Muslim women do not choose submission to islam, they are forced. Maybe she’d be in favor of dumping this submission?
clnurnberg on September 8, 2010 at 1:34 AM
You’ve said a lot of things, like how maybe they need to be insulting. I already said earlier that I wasn’t sure where you stood in the issues except for the minor one we were discussing.
I’m assuming nothing but responding to your points as they come.
Neither do I. It’s not my argument.
I am explaining why some of that aid or support may not be making the impact it should, because if you know you can’t count on an ally, it will probably negate much of what was done. Europe doesn’t like us so much right now either. Do you blame them?
I’m not excusing those who want to kill us. I’m simply explaining why some good deeds are forgotten, because we forgot them.
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 10:35 AM
Maybe, but it’s doubtful she’ll ever talk to you. That’s the point. You’re not opening up dialogue with this, you’re closing it.
If that’s what you want, then fine, but don’t assume this burning will do anything but harm Muslim-Christian relations. It won’t win converts. It won’t help oppressed Muslim women, and the only message it will send is that some Christians are still OK with burning books.
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 10:39 AM
You’ve said a lot of things, like how maybe they need to be
insultinginsulted.Correction.
Esthier on September 8, 2010 at 10:45 AM
This is pretty much how I feel about this subject.
catmman on September 8, 2010 at 11:59 AM
And this.
catmman on September 8, 2010 at 12:09 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »