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Live Action releases two new undercover videos; shows a Kentucky abortion clinic covering up statutory rape

posted at 10:24 am on April 21, 2010 by

Live Action has released two new undercover videos showing a Kentucky abortion clinic covering up statutory rape and giving medically misleading information. These videos show that, while Planned Parenthood might be the abortion giant in the United States, their clinics are not alone in their willingness to break the law.

The clinic Rose went undercover in is the EMW Women’s Surgical Center, a National Abortion Federation (NAF) center. The National Abortion Federation lobbies in Washington for abortion “rights”, and has branched out into Canada, Europe, and Australia.

In the first video, Rose gives her name as “Brianna”, her age as 14, and tells the counselor that her boyfriend is 31. The counselor assures Rose that she will not report the boyfriend, that she can keep it a secret, and advises her on how to get around parental notification via a judicial bypass.

Here, we see the counselor giving extremely false and misleading medical information. She determines that Rose is 14-15 weeks pregnant, and tells Rose that there is no brain activity, and that it doesn’t even occur until 18-19 weeks into the pregnancy.

As the video shows, the reality is somewhat different.

As per usual, this is breaking the law.

In the video, the EMW counselor named “Wendy” determines that Rose is “14 to 15-weeks pregnant” and Rose expresses that she wants to keep the situation secret from her parents. Though Rose gave no indication that she would face abusive parents, the clinic directs Rose to call Louisville attorney Mickey Adams so that she can obtain a judicial bypass around Kentucky’s parental consent law and avoid parental knowledge of the abortion or sexually abusive relationship.

In the state of Kentucky, sex between a 14-year-old and a 31-year-old is rape in the third degree and would reasonably be considered sexual abuse of a child which must be reported to law enforcement immediately. The clinic failed to ask the questions necessary to file a child sexual abuse report and did not communicate to Rose about the illegal or dangerous nature of her sexual relationship.

Rose, a UCLA student, says this sort of disregard for the law is typical at abortion centers. “In abortion clinics across the country, our undercover videos document the widespread cover up of sexual abuse. Abortion clinics like EMW in Louisville center attempt to fast track underage abortions on vulnerable girls, shut out parents, and blatantly ignore their legal obligation to report the sex predator to police.” says Rose.

Live Action has previously released videos of statutory rape cover-up at Planned Parenthood abortion clinics in Bloomington, IN, Indianapolis, IN, Memphis, TN, Birmingham, AL, Los Angeles, CA, Tucson, AZ, Phoenix, AZ, and Milwaukee, WI. Prompted by a Live Action video, the Alabama Health Department placed the Birmingham clinic on probation after conducting its own investigation which found 9 legal violations. Rose urges officials in Kentucky to follow suit: “State authorities need to investigate this Louisville abortion clinic and hold them accountable to the law,” Rose insists. “Until they do, young girls will be put at risk of continued sexual abuse.”

This clinic is the only abortion clinic in the state of Kentucky. NARAL bemoans the strict oversight of abortions in Kentucky.

  • Abortion Ban
    Kentucky has an unconstitutional and unenforceable criminal ban on abortion.

  • Biased Counseling & Mandatory Delay
    Kentucky has a partially unenforceable law that subjects women seeking abortion services to biased-counseling requirements and mandatory delays.

  • Counseling Ban/Gag Rule
    Kentucky prohibits certain state employees and organizations receiving state funds from counseling or referring women for abortion services.

  • Insurance Prohibition for Abortion
    Kentucky restricts insurance coverage of abortion.

  • Other Anti-Choice Law
    Kentucky law includes a strongly anti-choice policy statement.

  • Public Facilities Restriction
    Kentucky prohibits the use of all public facilities for abortion services.

  • Refusal to Provide Medical Services
    Kentucky allows certain individuals or entities to refuse to provide women specific reproductive-health services, information, or referrals.

  • Restrictions on Low-Income Women’s Access to Abortion
    Kentucky restricts low-income women’s access to abortion.

  • Restrictions on Young Women’s Access to Abortion
    Kentucky law restricts young women’s access to abortion services by mandating parental consent.

  • Spousal Notice
    Kentucky has an unconstitutional and unenforceable law mandating spousal notice before a married woman may obtain abortion care.

  • Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers (TRAP)
    Kentucky subjects abortion providers to burdensome restrictions not applied to other medical professionals.

The NARAL caterwauling just goes to show that feminists and abortion lobbyists do not want abortion to be safe, legal, and rare. They want women to have abortions. Any kind of restrictions on abortion, even something as harmless as medical counseling prior to the abortion, sends them into a frenzy. They know that if a woman gets medically accurate information about her unborn child, she will be much less likely to go through with the abortion. They don’t want spouses to be involved — even if the child is half the father’s, they don’t want him to be able to have a say in whether or not his child lives or dies. They don’t want any kind of restrictions whatsoever — no medical counseling, no parental or spousal notification, nothing. Abortions should not only be legal, but they should be commonplace and taxpayer subsidized. It’s sick. It’s as if these feminists and lobbyists want there to be little abortion mills, with women just coming in and getting abortions over and over again.

And so we see that it is not just Planned Parenthood that is the problem, but the massively powerful abortion lobby as a whole. Abortionists are willing to break the law and manipulate and lie to young girls time and time again. These two videos in particular show why they’re willing to do so: money. Had Rose not been pretending, had this been a real girl and they were successful in selling an abortion to her, then they would have collected a cool $1,075. After all, there’s a lot of money to be made performing abortions — not so much encouraging the girls to keep their babies or put them up for adoption.

To all of you pro-choicers reading this: are you OK with this? Is this the kind of pro-choice America you celebrate, one where abortion clinics prey on confused, scared young girls and manipulate them into getting abortions? Where clinics routinely break the law and offer medically inaccurate information? Where the truth about the unborn is kept secret?

I would think that anyone who had any kind of morals would be outraged at what is happening in abortion clinics across the country — whether you’re pro-life or pro-choice. This is something we should all be able to agree on.

The lies, the abuse, the manipulation… it all has to stop.

Cross-posted from Cassy’s blog. Stop by for more original commentary, or follow her on Twitter!

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To all of you pro-choicers reading this: are you OK with this? Is this the kind of pro-choice America you celebrate, one where abortion clinics prey on confused, scared young girls and manipulate them into getting abortions? Where clinics routinely break the law and offer medically inaccurate information? Where the truth about the unborn is kept secret?

Yes, it’s in their Charter.

uknowmorethanme on April 21, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Pro-abortionists want every woman to have at least one abortion.

Jeff2161 on April 21, 2010 at 12:38 PM

How is this “preying” on young girls. She came into the clinic voluntarily. It’s not like they offered her liquor to drink.

And please show the Kentucky statute that says third degree rape is “child abuse” for reporting purposes.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 1:22 PM

How is this “preying” on young girls. She came into the clinic voluntarily. It’s not like they offered her liquor to drink.

And please show the Kentucky statute that says third degree rape is “child abuse” for reporting purposes.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 1:22 PM

Your heart is simply too dark to comprehend the answer, which is itself exceedingly simple.

KinleyArdal on April 21, 2010 at 1:32 PM

How is this “preying” on young girls. She came into the clinic voluntarily. It’s not like they offered her liquor to drink.

And please show the Kentucky statute that says third degree rape is “child abuse” for reporting purposes.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 1:22 PM

Your heart is simply too dark to comprehend the answer, which is itself exceedingly simple.

KinleyArdal on April 21, 2010 at 1:32 PM

–In other words, there is no explicit requirement in the laws, and Casey and Live Action are lying and you are too stupid to understand.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 1:41 PM

–In other words, there is no explicit requirement in the laws, and Casey and Live Action are lying and you are too stupid to understand.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 1:41 PM

No, Jim, in other words, your heart is too dark and full of both bloodlust and cowardice to comprehend.

It really does come down to that.

KinleyArdal on April 21, 2010 at 1:48 PM

“Third degree rape of a 14 year old isn’t child abuse.” –Jimbo3

Yep. That’s a keeper.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Here you go, Jimbo:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/510-00/060.PDF

510.060 Rape in the third degree.
(1) A person is guilty of rape in the third degree when:
(a) He engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is incapable of consent because he or she is mentally retarded;
(b) Being twenty-one (21) years old or more, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person less than sixteen (16) years old;
(c) Being twenty-one (21) years old or more, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person less than eighteen (18) years old and for whom he or she provides a foster family home as defined in KRS 600.020; or
(d) Being a person in a position of authority or position of special trust, as defined in KRS 532.045, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with a minor under sixteen (16) years old with whom he or she comes into contact as a result of that position.
(2) Rape in the third degree is a Class D felony.
Effective: July 12, 2006

It took me, oh, two seconds to find that on Google. Do some research first before you open your mouth. There IS a Kentucky law regarding third degree rape. And even if there wasn’t, you still think that morally it would be OK for a 31-year-old man to have sex with a 14-year-old child?

If you think that’s just fine and dandy, then you have some serious issues and shouldn’t be allowed to be around children. Ever.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Here you go, Jimbo:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/510-00/060.PDF

510.060 Rape in the third degree.
(1) A person is guilty of rape in the third degree when:
(a) He engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is incapable of consent because he or she is mentally retarded;
(b) Being twenty-one (21) years old or more, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person less than sixteen (16) years old;
(c) Being twenty-one (21) years old or more, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person less than eighteen (18) years old and for whom he or she provides a foster family home as defined in KRS 600.020; or
(d) Being a person in a position of authority or position of special trust, as defined in KRS 532.045, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with a minor under sixteen (16) years old with whom he or she comes into contact as a result of that position.
(2) Rape in the third degree is a Class D felony.
Effective: July 12, 2006

It took me, oh, two seconds to find that on Google. Do some research first before you open your mouth. There IS a Kentucky law regarding third degree rape. And even if there wasn’t, you still think that morally it would be OK for a 31-year-old man to have sex with a 14-year-old child?

If you think that’s just fine and dandy, then you have some serious issues and shouldn’t be allowed to be around children. Ever.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:14 PM

–I found that, too, and I found the law requiring the reporting of child abuse (KY 620.030). What I didn’t find, though, was a law that said that “abuse” for reporting purposes included “rape in the third degree”. Got it? I can’t find a definition of “abuse” for purposes of KY 602.030.

And we’re not talking about morality here, we’re talking about law.

And you have no right to tell me that I can’t be around my two daughters.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 2:37 PM

So you’re telling me that, if your two daughters at the age of 14 were impregnated by a 31-year-old man, you’d be cool with it because somehow, to you, it “isn’t against the law”?

And Jimbo, I spoke with KY authorities myself about this. I spoke with a detective in the child crimes unit and I spoke with the DA’s office. I was told, multiple times, that the clinic WOULD be required to report the abuse. Let me break it down real simple for you. If a child — meaning someone under the age of 18 — is raped, which is what this situation would be considered, then it then becomes sexual abuse of a child. Get it? Rape — i.e., sexual abuse — of a child is child abuse. It’s not that difficult to understand. For most people, anyways.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:42 PM

And Jimbo, I spoke with KY authorities myself about this. I spoke with a detective in the child crimes unit and I spoke with the DA’s office. I was told, multiple times, that the clinic WOULD be required to report the abuse. Let me break it down real simple for you. If a child — meaning someone under the age of 18 — is raped, which is what this situation would be considered, then it then becomes sexual abuse of a child. Get it? Rape — i.e., sexual abuse — of a child is child abuse. It’s not that difficult to understand. For most people, anyways.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:42 PM

–Good. Then call them back and ask for a statute that defines this as abuse for that purpose.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 2:48 PM

And here, Jimbo, is another link listing mandatory reporters of child abuse.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/state/index.cfm?event=stateStatutes.processSearch

Professionals Required to Report
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 620.030

All persons are required to report, including, but not limited to:
Physicians, osteopathic physicians, nurses, coroners, medical examiners, residents, interns, chiropractors, dentists, optometrists, emergency medical technicians, paramedics, or health professionals
Teachers, school personnel, or child-caring personnel
Social workers or mental health professionals
Peace officers

Reporting by Other Persons
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 620.030

Any person who knows or has reasonable cause to believe that a child is dependent, neglected, or abused shall immediately report.

Standards for Making a Report
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 620.030

A report is required when a person knows or has reasonable cause to believe that a child is dependent, neglected, or abused.

I’ll break it down real simple for you again. If an individual has cause to believe a child has been abused in any way then they are required to make a report. You can also take note of the inclusion of physicians in the mandatory reporters section.

This counselor had reason to believe that this child had been a victim of sexual abuse, rape in the third degree. Therefore, it is required by Kentucky law for that counselor to make a report to Kentucky authorities. She did not. And the lawyer that she called didn’t, either. Therefore, they broke the law and covered up what they knew to be the statutory rape of a minor.

How is that so hard to understand? It took me less than five minutes, total, of research to find this out. You’re looking for excuses to absolve this clinic of their crimes, but there are none. Accept it.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:49 PM

I found that previously as well. Note they say “abuse”, not “sexual abuse”. Call them back and get me the specific statute that says that rape in the third degree or any similar laws is clearly defined as “abuse” for purposes of Section 620.030. Are you too scared to call?

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM

Therefore, they broke the law and covered up what they knew to be the statutory rape of a minor.

In a perfect world, they would be charged with abetting statutory rape, and if convicted, required to register as a sex offender and never be allowed unsupervised interaction with a minor again.

BacaDog on April 21, 2010 at 2:53 PM

I found that previously as well. Note they say “abuse”, not “sexual abuse”.

They don’t say “physical” or “mental” either, but most sane people know it covers “sexual” as well.

BacaDog on April 21, 2010 at 2:56 PM

No, I’m done with you now. Multiple KY authorities assured me that the clinic would be required to report the situation. You’ve seen two statutes to back that up. But you keep looking for loopholes; you won’t ever be satisfied because apparently, you’ve got such a bloodlust for abortion that you’ll find any way you can to excuse the inexcusable. It’s sad and pathetic. I’m not so stupid that I can’t see when someone can’t be reasoned with… and you can’t be reasoned with. It’s right there in front of your eyes in black and white, but you refuse to see.

I’ll say this, I feel sorry for your daughters if their father doesn’t see the problem with this situation and makes excuses for the rape and abuse of a child — and the cover-up of rape and abuse of a child — so that abortion access can be unfettered.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:59 PM

I found that previously as well. Note they say “abuse”, not “sexual abuse”.

They don’t say “physical” or “mental” either, but most sane people know it covers “sexual” as well.

BacaDog on April 21, 2010 at 2:56 PM

Here’s one that doesn’t (at least if the statutory rape isn’t by a parent or guardian):

The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) provides minimum standards that States must incorporate in their statutory definitions of child abuse and neglect. The CAPTA definition of “child abuse and neglect,” at a minimum, refers to:

“Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse, or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm”1

The CAPTA definition of “sexual abuse” includes:

“The employment, use, persuasion, inducement, enticement, or coercion of any child to engage in, or assist any other person to engage in, any sexually explicit conduct or simulation of such conduct for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct; or

The rape, and in cases of caretaker or interfamilial relationships, statutory rape, molestation, prostitution, or other form of sexual exploitation of children, or incest with children”2

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:01 PM

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM

Here ya go Jimbo:

Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect

To better understand this issue and to view it across States, see the Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect: Summary of State Laws (PDF – 665 KB) publication.
Physical Abuse
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 600.020

Abused or neglected child means a child whose health or welfare is harmed or threatened with harm when his or her parent, guardian, or other person exercising custodial control or supervision:

* Inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical or emotional injury by other than accidental means
* Creates or allows to be created a risk of physical or emotional injury to the child by other than accidental means

Physical injury means substantial physical pain or any impairment of physical condition.

Serious physical injury means physical injury that creates a substantial risk of death, or causes serious and prolonged disfigurement, prolonged impairment of health, or prolonged loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

Neglect
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 600.020

The term abused or neglected child includes a child whose health or welfare is harmed or threatened with harm when his or her parent, guardian, or other person exercising custodial control or supervision:

* Engages in a pattern of conduct that renders the parent incapable of caring for the immediate and ongoing needs of the child, including, but not limited to, parental incapacity due to alcohol and other drug abuse
* Continuously or repeatedly fails or refuses to provide essential parental care and protection for the child, considering the age of the child
* Does not provide the child with adequate care, supervision, food, clothing, shelter, education, or medical care necessary for the child’s well-being
* Fails to make sufficient progress toward identified goals as set forth in the court-approved case plan to allow for the safe return of the child to the parent that results in the child remaining committed to the cabinet and remaining in foster care for 15 of the most recent 22 months

Sexual Abuse/Exploitation
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 600.020

The term abused or neglected child includes a child whose health or welfare is harmed or threatened with harm when his or her parent, guardian, or other person exercising custodial control or supervision:

* Commits or allows to be committed an act of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or prostitution upon the child
* Creates or allows to be created a risk that an act of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or prostitution will be committed upon the child

Sexual abuse includes, but is not necessarily limited to, any contacts or interactions in which the parent or guardian uses or allows, permits, or encourages the use of the child for the purposes of sexual stimulation of the perpetrator or another person.

Sexual exploitation includes, but is not limited to, allowing, permitting, or encouraging the child to engage in prostitution, or an act of obscene or pornographic photographing, filming, or depicting of a child.

Further to the above:

Reporting Procedures

Individual Responsibility
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 620.030
Any person who knows or has reasonable cause to believe that a child is abused or neglected shall immediately make an oral or written report, by telephone or otherwise, to a local law enforcement agency, the Department of Kentucky State Police, the Cabinet for Health and Family Services or its designated representative, the Commonwealth attorney, or the county attorney.

A mandated reporter shall file a written report within 48 hours of the original report, if requested.

In simple terms, if someone knows there has been child abuse, of which sexual abuse is a part of, they have an obligation to report it.

BacaDog on April 21, 2010 at 3:03 PM

No, I’m done with you now. Multiple KY authorities assured me that the clinic would be required to report the situation. You’ve seen two statutes to back that up. But you keep looking for loopholes; you won’t ever be satisfied because apparently, you’ve got such a bloodlust for abortion that you’ll find any way you can to excuse the inexcusable. It’s sad and pathetic. I’m not so stupid that I can’t see when someone can’t be reasoned with… and you can’t be reasoned with. It’s right there in front of your eyes in black and white, but you refuse to see.

I’ll say this, I feel sorry for your daughters if their father doesn’t see the problem with this situation and makes excuses for the rape and abuse of a child — and the cover-up of rape and abuse of a child — so that abortion access can be unfettered.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 2:59 PM

–You don’t have a cite. You say you’ve talked to people in the DAs office and the child crimes unit. Yet you won’t call them back to ask them this question. I say you’re a coward who can’t substantiate what she wrote. Post their phone numbers and names here and I’ll call them if you’re too much of a chicken to do so. Or didn’t you really ever talk to any of them in the first place?

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:04 PM

I must be “too stupid to understand” as well, because I would have sworn that when one adds an adjective such as “sexual” in front of a noun such as “abuse” that the noun was the more significant portion of the phrase and that the rest was merely a qualifier used to make the term more specific.

Then again, I was also stupid enough to convince myself that my son’s ultrasound at 16 weeks was one of a human child not yet ready to leave my womb, not just some blob of cells with no brain activity.

RachDubya on April 21, 2010 at 3:06 PM

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM

“Rape’s okay, as long as it’s not rape-rape.” –Jimbo3

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Sexual Abuse/Exploitation
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 600.020

The term abused or neglected child includes a child whose health or welfare is harmed or threatened with harm when his or her parent, guardian, or other person exercising custodial control or supervision:

* Commits or allows to be committed an act of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or prostitution upon the child
* Creates or allows to be created a risk that an act of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or prostitution will be committed upon the child

–You just proved my point. Sexual abuse only occurs when the parent, custodian or guardian does it or allows it to occur. It does not occur when a thirty one year old unrelated boyfriend commits statutory rape (unless the parent, custodian or guardian permitted it to happen).

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Go right ahead and call. Feel free. Do your own research. Like I said before though, I’m done with you. I know the reality, and you’re blinded by bloodlust. There’s nothing I can say to you, no evidence anyone can show you. You will just stubbornly cling to your paper-thin defense of a clinic that broke the law. So fine. Live in your ignorance while I keep fighting for the truth.

End of conversation.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Go right ahead and call. Feel free. Do your own research. Like I said before though, I’m done with you. I know the reality, and you’re blinded by bloodlust. There’s nothing I can say to you, no evidence anyone can show you. You will just stubbornly cling to your paper-thin defense of a clinic that broke the law. So fine. Live in your ignorance while I keep fighting for the truth.

End of conversation.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

–Then post their phone numbers and names and I will call, and look at the blog for why you and Live Action are apparently wrong about the law.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:09 PM

Why? I figured it out on my own. You’re so much smarter than the rest of us, you do the same.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:12 PM

Then post their phone numbers and names and I will call, and look at the blog for why you and Live Action are apparently wrong about the law.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:09 PM

Why? I figured it out on my own. You’re so much smarter than the rest of us, you do the same.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:12 PM

–I’ll take that as confirmation that you and Live Action were told there was ambiguity in the law, but that you both decided to write false stories even in light of what you were told. Unless, of course, you want to give me the names and the phone numbers of the people you talked to so I can confirm you were given bad advice.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:14 PM

So basically, you’re telling me that if KY authorities told me what I am telling you they told me — that this is indeed a crime and the clinic was required to report it — then I got “bad advice”?

You are delusional. Seriously.

Like I said, I did the research on my own. You do the same if you want to prove us wrong. Which, of course, you won’t. And that’s probably why you’re stalling and blathering on instead of doing it yourself. As long as you yourself take the initiative to find out, you can keep bleating that it’s all a lie and that no crime was committed.

Pathetic, dude. Seriously. You’re a sad, delusional, pathetic person.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Because everyone knows that rape isn’t sexual abuse.

:roll:

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Because everyone knows that rape isn’t sexual abuse.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 3:17 PM

–Statutory rape is different than non-consensual rape. And the federal statute I posted (and apparently KY law) thinks that statutory rape is only child abuse when a parent or guardian is involved.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:23 PM

So basically, you’re telling me that if KY authorities told me what I am telling you they told me — that this is indeed a crime and the clinic was required to report it — then I got “bad advice”?

You are delusional. Seriously.

Like I said, I did the research on my own. You do the same if you want to prove us wrong. Which, of course, you won’t. And that’s probably why you’re stalling and blathering on instead of doing it yourself. As long as you yourself take the initiative to find out, you can keep bleating that it’s all a lie and that no crime was committed.

Pathetic, dude. Seriously. You’re a sad, delusional, pathetic person.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Sexual Abuse/Exploitation
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 600.020

The term abused or neglected child includes a child whose health or welfare is harmed or threatened with harm when his or her parent, guardian, or other person exercising custodial control or supervision:

* Commits or allows to be committed an act of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or prostitution upon the child
* Creates or allows to be created a risk that an act of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or prostitution will be committed upon the child

Sexual abuse includes, but is not necessarily limited to, any contacts or interactions in which the parent or guardian uses or allows, permits, or encourages the use of the child for the purposes of sexual stimulation of the perpetrator or another person.

Sexual exploitation includes, but is not limited to, allowing, permitting, or encouraging the child to engage in prostitution, or an act of obscene or pornographic photographing, filming, or depicting of a child.

–Got it? Not the boyfriend. Only the parent or guardian.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:26 PM

The lies, the abuse, the manipulation… it all has to stop.

–Gee, I guess this must apply to your story. When are you and Live Action going to do the same?

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:23 PM

Like you said before:

“Rape’s okay, as long as it’s not rape-rape.” –Jimbo3

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Rape is rape, Mr. Polanski.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Or anyone else “exercising custodial control or supervision”.

This is why the counselor would be required to make a report. Rose never specified who the boyfriend was. What if it was her teacher? There you go, loophole close.

But let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that you were able to successfully argue that the clinic did not break any laws. Congratulations, you just let an abortion clinic successfully cover up what IS actually a crime — rape in the third degree — of a child, bypass parental notification laws, lie to a child about biology, and manipulate them into getting an abortion!

Gee, I bet you feel all warm and fuzzy inside now, being a crusader for heartless, unethical abortionists who will do anything to get another $1000 bucks.

Aren’t you proud now? Step up! Accept your prize! In your world, it’s OK to find a frikkin’ loophole — even though in reality one does not exist — to excuse even the worst behavior. Hey, why don’t you encourage this to happen more often? The world is such a wonderful place thanks to people like you! Gosh, you must be so excited now that you’ve decided that this isn’t actually against the law!

Man, America is so lucky to have people like you looking out for our children. I bet kids are a lot safer when people like you are enforcing our laws and deciding what’s a crime and what isn’t. Older men can prey on children all they want, and no one will do anything about it.

Gosh, your daughters are so lucky!

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:32 PM

Or anyone else “exercising custodial control or supervision”. Custodial generally means “daily” control or supervision.

Man, America is so lucky to have people like you looking out for our children. I bet kids are a lot safer when people like you are enforcing our laws and deciding what’s a crime and what isn’t. Older men can prey on children all they want, and no one will do anything about it.

Gosh, your daughters are so lucky!

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:32 PM

–You’re unhinged and over the top. Slow down and take a deep breath. No one is saying that the older boyfriend can’t be charged under the law you cited. I’m surely not saying that.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:38 PM

First of all, let me introduce you to the word sarcasm. Definition:

–noun
1.harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2.a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

Got it?

Second, what are you saying then? You’re trying to find a loophole to let this clinic get away with breaking the law. What you fail to understand is that this is the entire reason a report is required. The counselor doesn’t know the situation of who is raping the child. How could she possibly know that it wasn’t the father raping her and she was instructed to go in there and lie? The answer is you don’t; ergo, mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse. The report is so that authorities can investigate. You, apparently, would rather that not happen for some sick reason I can’t fathom.

I’m not the unhinged one here. You’re the one defending the people who were just fine with not reporting a fourteen-year-old being raped by a 31-year-old. That’s pretty unhinged in my book.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Second, what are you saying then? You’re trying to find a loophole to let this clinic get away with breaking the law. What you fail to understand is that this is the entire reason a report is required. The counselor doesn’t know the situation of who is raping the child. How could she possibly know that it wasn’t the father raping her and she was instructed to go in there and lie? The answer is you don’t; ergo, mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse. The report is so that authorities can investigate. You, apparently, would rather that not happen for some sick reason I can’t fathom.

I’m not the unhinged one here. You’re the one defending the people who were just fine with not reporting a fourteen-year-old being raped by a 31-year-old. That’s pretty unhinged in my book.

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 3:45 PM

–Look. I’ve explained it again and again. Based on the stuff I’ve seen, the clinic was not required to report this because it didn’t qualify as abuse. It didn’t qualify as abuse because it didn’t qualify as sexual abuse. It didn’t qualify as sexual abuse because a parent, guardian or custodian wasn’t invoved.

How does it feel to know that careful readers understand you and Live Action have misreprented some of the KY laws and have seemingly been caught with your “pants down”?

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:54 PM

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 3:54 PM

Listen, Mr. Polanski, the Kentucky law you quoted wasn’t the complete section. Go read the full §620.030.

Key quotes:

“If the cabinet receives a report of abuse or neglect allegedly committed by a person other than a parent, guardian, or person exercising custodial control or supervision…”

“…who knows or has reasonable cause to believe that a child is dependent, neglected, or abused, regardless of whether the person believed to have caused the dependency, neglect, or abuse is a parent, guardian, person exercising custodial control or supervision…”

But, but, but, Mr. Jimbo3 on some blog told me that child rape is only ever abuse if it’s done or allowed by a parent.

Not. The. Case.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 4:12 PM

If the cabinet receives a report of abuse or neglect allegedly committed by a person other than a parent, guardian, or person exercising custodial control or supervision…”

“…who knows or has reasonable cause to believe that a child is dependent, neglected, or abused, regardless of whether the person believed to have caused the dependency, neglect, or abuse is a parent, guardian, person exercising custodial control or supervision…”

But, but, but, Mr. Jimbo3 on some blog told me that child rape is only ever abuse if it’s done or allowed by a parent.

Not. The. Case.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Yes. The. Case (apparently). Because statutory rape is not sexual abuse and so is not abuse unless a parent or guardian is involved under the provisions cited above. Those other situations in 620.030 apparently deal with physical abuse or neglect or non-consensual rape.

But Cassy can just clear this whole thing up if she’d like. She can just give us the phone number and names of the people she talked to. Or she can give us the explicit statutory cite I’ve asked her for. Pretty simple. She was a reporter.
And if that is not the case then

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Abby, it’s pointless. There’s no reasoning with someone like him. That’s why I’ve given up. I really should’ve known better to begin with — you never feed the trolls. (Sigh.)

But good point. :)

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 4:29 PM

Cassy Fiano on April 21, 2010 at 4:29 PM

I guess you’re right. Even after I point out the law explicitly does not care if the abuse is done by a parent, he refuses to concede.

But this conversation is gold for the memory banks: ‘statutory rape isn’t sexual abuse.’ Good to know.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 4:33 PM

the cabinet receives a report of abuse or neglect allegedly committed by a person other than a parent, guardian, or person exercising custodial control or supervision…”

“…who knows or has reasonable cause to believe that a child is dependent, neglected, or abused, regardless of whether the person believed to have caused the dependency, neglect, or abuse is a parent, guardian, person exercising custodial control or supervision…”

But, but, but, Mr. Jimbo3 on some blog told me that child rape is only ever abuse if it’s done or allowed by a parent.

Not. The. Case.

Abby Adams on April 21, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Yes. The. Case (apparently). Because statutory rape is not sexual abuse and so is not abuse unless a parent or guardian is involved under the provisions cited above. Those other situations in 620.030 apparently deal with physical abuse or neglect or non-consensual rape.

But Cassy can just clear this whole thing up if she’d like. She can just give us the phone number and names of the people she talked to. Or she can give us the explicit statutory cite I’ve asked her for. Pretty simple. She was a reporter.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 4:28 PM

–And, reading the regulations that were posted, they allow for physical abuse, neglect and sexual abuse to occur when the parents or guardians create or allow for risk or fail to do something. So it still could be abuse or neglect if the parents or guardians allowed for something to happen by another person. Perhaps that’s what the language in 620.030 was getting at.

Jimbo3 on April 21, 2010 at 4:34 PM

Law and justice are not always the same. When they aren’t, destroying the law may be the first step toward changing it.

Gloria Steinem. An ironic quote, considering her support of abortion – but she is very right.

Law and justice aren’t always the same. I commend Cassy and Abby for actually taking time to talk to you, Jimbo – I think you are past mortal help. Worship your god of legality – see where it gets you. I’ll be over here hoping your eyes actually open at some point.

May the Lord protect your granddaughters from you.

KinleyArdal on April 21, 2010 at 11:37 PM

This has all been a little weird. Kentucky statute describes the crime of “sexual abuse in the first degree,” which would apply to the circumstances claimed by Rose (31-year-old man, 14-year-old girl) when she went undercover. KRS 520.110 is the citation.

620.030 explicitly requires a clinic worker to report knowledge of such abuse, whether the abuser is a parent or is not a parent of the victim. Subparagraph (2) is very clear on that.

People are regularly charged under sexual abuse statutes in all 50 states. There would certainly be a requirement in Kentucky for a clinic worker to report the situation claimed by Rose to the law enforcement authorities.

J.E. Dyer on April 21, 2010 at 11:42 PM

This post has been promoted to HotAir.com.

Comments have been closed on this post but the discussion continues here.

Ed Morrissey on April 22, 2010 at 7:56 AM

Comments closed, eh? ;-)

Abby Adams on April 22, 2010 at 10:17 AM