Green Room

Anti-gun nuts: Let’s ban more guns because of Fort Hood

posted at 1:57 pm on November 8, 2009 by

Of course. They tried it with Columbine and Virginia Tech, why not the tragedie du jour?

Nidal Malik Hasan, the Muslim American army psychiatrist, who ran amok at Fort Hood army base in Texas killing 13, used a controversial Belgian weapon. Hasan employed an FN 5.7 pistol.

The weapon is produced by arms manufacturer FN at Herstal in Belgium. Hasan was able to purchase the arm without any difficulty at an arms dealer’s.

The 5.7 pistol is an extremely powerful semi-automatic arm. Using a special type of ammunition it can pierce through bullet proof vests even at a great distance.

This makes the weapon extremely popular among criminal gangs. It has been dubbed the “cop killer”.

Well, it certainly seems that this vicious, evil 5.7 FN pistol is some kind of magical killing machine. The question is, how? The article seems to discuss both the pistol on its own, as well as a particular kind of ammunition. So, is it the pistol? Does it only fire bullets which pierce armor? Um, no.

The 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge was designed for pistols, submachine guns, personal defense weapons and carbines. It was developed by Fabrique Nationale Herstal (FN Herstal), Belgium and primarily marketed to European militaries for use by vehicle crewmen, artillery personnel and combat engineers and as a military and law enforcement round that has more effective performance against modern body armor when compared with traditional pistol caliber ammunition. The ammo for the civilian market WILL NOT penetrate Level IIA and Level IIIA Kevlar, Kevlar 129 or Spectra vests, contrary to popular myth put originated by misguided politicians and gun control advocates trying to advance their agenda. Ballistically, the 5.7 round is very similar to the .22 WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) round.

So wait…the ammunition being used is available only to law enforcement and…military? Why, yes it is, according to FN’s own website. You can buy and use a number of different rounds for that pistol for self-defense, target shooting, or whatever legal purpose you wish, and police officers are at no more risk than if you had picked up a package of 9mm rounds at Wal-Mart. I guess adding in the little detail about Hasan only being able to purchase the AP rounds due to being a member of the military might have blown their argument. Must have just slipped their mind. It even slipped the mind of the writers of the above news article, since the blue-tipped rounds in the included picture indicate that they are, in fact, not armor piercing.

So it’s not the gun, yet gun control advocates still want it banned. By their logic, we better ban all other standard caliber handguns as well. The military also has access to a lot of other weapons and equipment not available for civilian use, so do we ban the military from having it? How strange that they would be calling for the outlawing of a firearm based on completely flawed thinking, particularly with such hyperbole at their disposal as “cop killer”.

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Comments

Great post, Mad Con.

You know when they can have my guns…

ladyingray on November 8, 2009 at 2:13 PM

With what happened at Fort Hood, I think every American should be required to own a gun to defend ourselves from you never know WHO might be thinking of killing on a grand scale.
L

letget on November 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM

How strange that they would be calling for the outlawing of a firearm based on completely flawed thinking, particularly with such hyperbole at their disposal as “cop killer”.

It’s my understanding that making a handgun for this ammo (5.7 x 28 mm SS190 AP FMJ ) was due to the 1997 North Hollywood shootout.

This gun was developed as a “Cop Gunnot aCop Killer Gun”.

Basically this guns ammo 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge is a shorten 5.7 x 45 mm NATO cartridge. Literally, a shorten 5.7 x 45 mm.

This fact explains why witnesses reported “hearing” a M-16 (5.7 x 45 mm NATO) being fired.

The 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge was developed for the “Buck Rodgers” P90 PDW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90

This round, the none AP round, is More powerful than the .22 WMR

40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)

But Less powerful than the .22 Hornet

The .22 Hornet is also known as 5.6x35R mm

35 gr (2.3 g) VMax 3,060 ft/s (930 m/s) 728 ft·lbf (987 J)

55 gr (3.6 g) SP 2,652 ft/s (808 m/s) 859 ft·lbf (1,165 J)

The 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge

32 gr (2.1 g) SS190 AP FMJ 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) 538 J (397 ft·lbf)
28 gr (1.8 g) SS195LF JHP 716 m/s (2,350 ft/s) 467 J (344 ft·lbf)

40 gr (2.6 g) SS197SR JHP 594 m/s (1,950 ft/s) 461 J (340 ft·lbf)

DSchoen on November 8, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Oh another thing.

It has been stated that this gun is a favorite of the Mexican drug gangs.

This is most likely due to the fact that this gun, along with the P90 are used by the Mexican Army.

DSchoen on November 8, 2009 at 4:09 PM

If we were to have a revolution, it would have to be short and sweet, because this is exactly the response I predicted. Let’s us say that people started being arrested for not complying with the Healthcare mandate or some type of private business was seized from a wealthy man. These harmed persons began to assassinate Government drones, say GS-7 and above as in the book, Unintended Consequences by John Ross. The Government would move to seize arms as well as hunt down those who were resisting. This would only add to the numbers of those resisting.

This could get ugly, fast.

GunRunner on November 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM

I knew it was coming based on the stupid questions the reporters were asking.

clement on November 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM

Members of the military are NOT authorized to buy the AP ammo merely by virtue of military service. The U.S. military does not use this type of round, so MAJ Hasan was using the non-AP, ie, civilian round. He could buy the gun, as could any American citizen in good standing, at a local gun store. It is the same as buying a TEC-9 or even a civilian version of the M-4. Nothing special about the gun or ammo.
This article is just myth and misunderstanding.

old_dawg on November 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM

The claims of the gun control crowd are not myth and are not misunderstanding.

The gun control crowd intentionally and brazenly lies about these topics.

SPQR on November 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Too bad I failed to lay down some money with a casino betting that this would be one of the first “breaking news” articles regarding the terrorist attack at Fort Hood.

No lib with whom I’ve ever discussed the Right to bear arms has ever handled a weapon. I’ve asked. Their best argument has always been “if there were no guns, no one would get killed with them”. Great. My follow up question is “what do you do about all the strangulations of kids, spouses, prostitutes? Ban hands?” The answer is usually something to the effect “you just don’t understand”. Great.

Politicians prefer unarmed peasants. I prefer freedom.

Robert17 on November 8, 2009 at 8:12 PM

Speaking of lies that gun banners tell, a few years ago the Bradys posted a video of a FiveSeven pistol shooting thru a kevlar vest. What some people don’t know is that kevlar degrades after about 5 years of wear, and loses it’s protection. I suspect they took a used up vest and shot it either because it was given to them for free and they didn’t know any better, or they knew and wanted to mislead the public.

mad saint jack on November 9, 2009 at 1:11 AM

Speaking of lies that gun banners tell, a few years ago the Bradys posted a video of a FiveSeven pistol shooting thru a kevlar vest. What some people don’t know is that kevlar degrades after about 5 years of wear, and loses it’s protection. I suspect they took a used up vest and shot it either because it was given to them for free and they didn’t know any better, or they knew and wanted to mislead the public.

mad saint jack on November 9, 2009 at 1:11 AM

The 5.7 round in AP can only be purchased by law enforcement or the military, through official purchase orders. The ammo is stored in bonded warehouses. It is unlikely that the soldiers that Hasan shot were wearing their kevlar as they were on US soil and not on combat status. The brave lady cop that took him down had a serious injury in that a bullet struck her leg artery; she almost bled out from that. I would guess she had on a vest but it not have protected against this wound. Hasan was likely not wearing armor as there was a report of a wound to his side, where armor normally covers.

Ironically, none of the soldiers were armed; when seconds count the cops are minutes away. A dedicated person, willing to die and well trained, can today and next century do considerable harm before being stopped. No gun control law will change that. A willingness for more people to carry concealed could reduce the extent of the carnage however.

GnuBreed on November 9, 2009 at 3:57 AM

1. This is plainly a case of a terrorist, attacking unarmed people in a place where the terrorist KNOWS guns are not allowed to be carried.
2. The is NO such thing as a 5.7X28 FN AP round for sale on the civilian market.

nelsonknows on November 9, 2009 at 7:45 PM

You can pick up 9 mm at Walmart? Not mine. They have been out since last Spring. I have to go to the Gun show to stock up.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on November 9, 2009 at 8:03 PM

Libs have no problem with real cop killers, just guns by that name.

disa on November 9, 2009 at 8:29 PM

Libs have no problem with real cop killers, just guns by that name.

disa on November 9, 2009 at 8:29 PM

Free Mumia The FN Five Seven.

soundingboard on November 10, 2009 at 8:19 AM

2. The is NO such thing as a 5.7X28 FN AP round for sale on the civilian market.

Gunbroker.com has it. Expensive and rare though.

no_hoplophobe on November 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM

the SS 190 (AP) round has never been legal.

the SS 192 (non AP) was pulled off the market, but has been showing up recently at stupidly high prices.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm

mad saint jack on November 10, 2009 at 6:43 PM

“Speaking of lies that gun banners tell, a few years ago the Bradys posted a video of a FiveSeven pistol shooting thru a kevlar vest.

mad saint jack on November 9, 2009 at 1:11 AM”

ANY Center fire rifle round will defeat a Kevlar vest without trauma plates.

Kevlar vest will stop .22lr up to .45 acp. His other gun was a .357 magnum which is much more powerful than the 5.7 x 28 mm and will also defeat a Kevlar ONLY vest.

No living cop thinks a Kevlar ONLY vest will make them “bullet proof”

DSchoen on November 10, 2009 at 7:44 PM

no_hoplophobe on November 10, 2009 at 5:03 PM

And if click on it you will find you can’t get it.
Its not legal.

“Some listed items may not be legal in every state. Click here for details on how to complete your purchase within the law.”

Perhaps if you go out side the country and pay the $2000.00 for 50 rounds you could get it. Why anyone would do that is beyond comprehension to me.

DSchoen on November 10, 2009 at 7:54 PM

It’s pretty awesome that you were linked by Rush:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_110909/home.guest.html

(Left hand side; Article:HA)

Congrats! :)

Diane on November 11, 2009 at 9:11 AM