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	<title>Comments on: There Is No Freedom Without Law</title>
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	<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/</link>
	<description>HotAir.com&#039;s Greenroom</description>
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		<title>By: Chaz706</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39280</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaz706</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In America government doesn’t derive any legitimacy from a democratic majority, as we are not a democracy. The Constitution is designed not only to protect the people from the government; it also protects us from democracy. If it did not our rights would not exist. They would be privileges subject to the whims of a democratic majority.

single stack on November 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You bring up an excellent point Single Stack.  There are some who say no government cannot exist without the right of the governed.  I agree with them, but that statement does not mean mere majority rule.  It means something more.

There were many cases where the majority itself ruled with an Iron fist.  A tyranny with majority support is still a tyranny.  The only difference is that (perhaps) the people in the majority themselves are guilty of the crimes of the state.  Unthinkable as this sounds, this was common in the Greek city states of old.

Are we close to that point?  To the point where people are so savage so as to completely disregard the status of their fellow brethren and sisters?  To conspire against their own countrymen to steal and plunder with government help?  Where both plutocrat and peasant are so callous and past feeling as to make the honest poor for their own benefit?  To sell their own rights for a loaf of bread and a ticket to the coliseum?  Have we become thieves ruled by thieves?  Is there no hope for the just and honest who are about to be robbed and plundered out of house and home and persecuted out of existence?

Have we passed that point?  &lt;em&gt;God forbid!&lt;/em&gt;  If so, the sword of Damocles has been loosed, and will soon fall upon us!

I don&#039;t believe for a moment that the majority of the nation actually wants more statist government, but it has happened before.  If such is the case, woe be unto us!  We have forgotten the principles of this great nation and nothing can save it from destruction and peril.

I just hope we haven&#039;t got to that.

This nation will stand as long as the law stands true.  If it falls, we fall with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In America government doesn’t derive any legitimacy from a democratic majority, as we are not a democracy. The Constitution is designed not only to protect the people from the government; it also protects us from democracy. If it did not our rights would not exist. They would be privileges subject to the whims of a democratic majority.</p>
<p>single stack on November 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM</p></blockquote>
<p>You bring up an excellent point Single Stack.  There are some who say no government cannot exist without the right of the governed.  I agree with them, but that statement does not mean mere majority rule.  It means something more.</p>
<p>There were many cases where the majority itself ruled with an Iron fist.  A tyranny with majority support is still a tyranny.  The only difference is that (perhaps) the people in the majority themselves are guilty of the crimes of the state.  Unthinkable as this sounds, this was common in the Greek city states of old.</p>
<p>Are we close to that point?  To the point where people are so savage so as to completely disregard the status of their fellow brethren and sisters?  To conspire against their own countrymen to steal and plunder with government help?  Where both plutocrat and peasant are so callous and past feeling as to make the honest poor for their own benefit?  To sell their own rights for a loaf of bread and a ticket to the coliseum?  Have we become thieves ruled by thieves?  Is there no hope for the just and honest who are about to be robbed and plundered out of house and home and persecuted out of existence?</p>
<p>Have we passed that point?  <em>God forbid!</em>  If so, the sword of Damocles has been loosed, and will soon fall upon us!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe for a moment that the majority of the nation actually wants more statist government, but it has happened before.  If such is the case, woe be unto us!  We have forgotten the principles of this great nation and nothing can save it from destruction and peril.</p>
<p>I just hope we haven&#8217;t got to that.</p>
<p>This nation will stand as long as the law stands true.  If it falls, we fall with it.</p>
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		<title>By: beachgirlusa</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39238</link>
		<dc:creator>beachgirlusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39238</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Doc has confirmed he is a he.

publiuspen &lt;/blockquote&gt;


















Thx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Doc has confirmed he is a he.</p>
<p>publiuspen </p></blockquote>
<p>Thx.</p>
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		<title>By: milemarker2020</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39237</link>
		<dc:creator>milemarker2020</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39237</guid>
		<description>The consistency of your posts are amazing. Demand frontpage listing every time you write. I will add that the Supreme Court is the means by which we can return to the first principles that this republic was founded on. In the aftermath of World War 2 the Court permitted the great expansion of government with the various New Deal and Great Society program that are all frankly unconstitutional. We need a real conservative majority in the Court to begin to narrowly define the Interstate Commerce Clause of the Constitution and to reverse this liberal tide that has swamped this country. Let us pray everyday for the health of Justice Anthony Kennedy, that he lives long beyond the term of Barack Hussein Obama!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The consistency of your posts are amazing. Demand frontpage listing every time you write. I will add that the Supreme Court is the means by which we can return to the first principles that this republic was founded on. In the aftermath of World War 2 the Court permitted the great expansion of government with the various New Deal and Great Society program that are all frankly unconstitutional. We need a real conservative majority in the Court to begin to narrowly define the Interstate Commerce Clause of the Constitution and to reverse this liberal tide that has swamped this country. Let us pray everyday for the health of Justice Anthony Kennedy, that he lives long beyond the term of Barack Hussein Obama!</p>
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		<title>By: publiuspen</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39231</link>
		<dc:creator>publiuspen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39231</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;beachgirlusa on November 6, 2009 at 9:31 AM&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Doc has confirmed he is a he.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>beachgirlusa on November 6, 2009 at 9:31 AM</p></blockquote>
<p>Doc has confirmed he is a he.</p>
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		<title>By: beachgirlusa</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39225</link>
		<dc:creator>beachgirlusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39225</guid>
		<description>My admiration and respect for Doc grows more and more with every new post he/she makes. Excellent, as always.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My admiration and respect for Doc grows more and more with every new post he/she makes. Excellent, as always.</p>
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		<title>By: publiuspen</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39219</link>
		<dc:creator>publiuspen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39219</guid>
		<description>Just as in the corporate world (I know, egads, I am a &lt;em&gt;capitalist&lt;/em&gt;) where new projects are tied back to a specific goal and objective in the guiding strategic plan, all laws proposed should show where the Constitution grants such authority. &lt;strong&gt;That presupposes Congress and staff actually have read and understood the sacred document. &lt;/strong&gt; 

I also would like to see Constitutional history as a core education requirement in elementary and high school -- and law school for that matter. 

Until that happens, teach your children well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as in the corporate world (I know, egads, I am a <em>capitalist</em>) where new projects are tied back to a specific goal and objective in the guiding strategic plan, all laws proposed should show where the Constitution grants such authority. <strong>That presupposes Congress and staff actually have read and understood the sacred document. </strong> </p>
<p>I also would like to see Constitutional history as a core education requirement in elementary and high school &#8212; and law school for that matter. </p>
<p>Until that happens, teach your children well.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert17</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39217</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39217</guid>
		<description>Come on now, folks. The point is more that we have laws, primary amongst them is the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Follow up laws and interpretations. The governments legitimacy is in adherring to those laws, or pressing for an Amendment to advance their agenda. And we all know how often Amendments occur.

Interpretations, not so much.

Bloat, being what it is, has less to do with helping me to drive across country safely, more to do with my paying for pink concrete columns with daisys by the road, not just paying for the road. Please, make your own examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on now, folks. The point is more that we have laws, primary amongst them is the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Follow up laws and interpretations. The governments legitimacy is in adherring to those laws, or pressing for an Amendment to advance their agenda. And we all know how often Amendments occur.</p>
<p>Interpretations, not so much.</p>
<p>Bloat, being what it is, has less to do with helping me to drive across country safely, more to do with my paying for pink concrete columns with daisys by the road, not just paying for the road. Please, make your own examples.</p>
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		<title>By: JCred</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39196</link>
		<dc:creator>JCred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39196</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Great essay, but it contains a serious but common error:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Government cannot derive its legitimacy entirely from the approval of a democratic majority&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In America government doesn’t derive any legitimacy from a democratic majority, as we are not a democracy. The Constitution is designed not only to protect the people from the government; it also protects us from democracy. If it did not our rights would not exist. They would be privileges subject to the whims of a democratic majority.

single stack on November 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not seeing the error here. You are 100% correct about protection from the mob rule of the majority. Taking it a step further, our Constitution protects us from the individual, as well. But anybody not already aware of these basic elements needs to close their web browser and open a U.S. history book. 

The entire paragraph containing the quote under scrutiny is essentially the same as what you&#039;ve rebutted with. It&#039;s just been &lt;em&gt;Doctored&lt;/em&gt; up a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Great essay, but it contains a serious but common error:</p>
<blockquote><p>Government cannot derive its legitimacy entirely from the approval of a democratic majority</p></blockquote>
<p>In America government doesn’t derive any legitimacy from a democratic majority, as we are not a democracy. The Constitution is designed not only to protect the people from the government; it also protects us from democracy. If it did not our rights would not exist. They would be privileges subject to the whims of a democratic majority.</p>
<p>single stack on November 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not seeing the error here. You are 100% correct about protection from the mob rule of the majority. Taking it a step further, our Constitution protects us from the individual, as well. But anybody not already aware of these basic elements needs to close their web browser and open a U.S. history book. </p>
<p>The entire paragraph containing the quote under scrutiny is essentially the same as what you&#8217;ve rebutted with. It&#8217;s just been <em>Doctored</em> up a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: GnuBreed</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39159</link>
		<dc:creator>GnuBreed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39159</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
 
Widely attributed to Ben Franklin, but not found in any of his writings per wikiquotes.  Still highly appropriate for your essay.
 
It is useful to look at central government on a scale of 0% to 100%.  At 0% is anarchy and a close current analog is Somalia. At 100% is slavery and North Korea comes to mind. The US soon after the Constitution&#039;s ratification probably bumped along around 10-15%; there was limited interference in individual affairs unless there was a direct conflict with another&#039;s rights.  Law could be learned from a single book and you could live your entire life without having significant interaction with the federal government. By 1900, US level of government had increased slowly to around 25%. In 1913, the 16th Amendment passed and the income tax was formalized. Today, a good guess on level of government in the US is north of 50% and it takes an army of lawyers just to litigate a corporate tax case. In Britain, it sounds like they are nearing nanny state levels of 70-75%. Our government is in a hurry to catch up with them too.
 
I enjoyed your article Doc. I don&#039;t think a return to 10-15% government is possible without violent revolution. Nor would that level of government necessarily work in today&#039;s smaller, more interrelated world. But boy oh boy does 25% government sound good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.</p></blockquote>
<p>Widely attributed to Ben Franklin, but not found in any of his writings per wikiquotes.  Still highly appropriate for your essay.</p>
<p>It is useful to look at central government on a scale of 0% to 100%.  At 0% is anarchy and a close current analog is Somalia. At 100% is slavery and North Korea comes to mind. The US soon after the Constitution&#8217;s ratification probably bumped along around 10-15%; there was limited interference in individual affairs unless there was a direct conflict with another&#8217;s rights.  Law could be learned from a single book and you could live your entire life without having significant interaction with the federal government. By 1900, US level of government had increased slowly to around 25%. In 1913, the 16th Amendment passed and the income tax was formalized. Today, a good guess on level of government in the US is north of 50% and it takes an army of lawyers just to litigate a corporate tax case. In Britain, it sounds like they are nearing nanny state levels of 70-75%. Our government is in a hurry to catch up with them too.</p>
<p>I enjoyed your article Doc. I don&#8217;t think a return to 10-15% government is possible without violent revolution. Nor would that level of government necessarily work in today&#8217;s smaller, more interrelated world. But boy oh boy does 25% government sound good.</p>
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		<title>By: single stack</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39144</link>
		<dc:creator>single stack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39144</guid>
		<description>Great essay, but it contains a serious but common error:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Government cannot derive its legitimacy entirely from the approval of a democratic majority&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In America government doesn&#039;t derive any legitimacy from a democratic majority, as we are not a democracy. The Constitution is designed not only to protect the people from the government; it also protects us from democracy. If it did not our rights would not exist. They would be privileges subject to the whims of a democratic majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great essay, but it contains a serious but common error:</p>
<blockquote><p>Government cannot derive its legitimacy entirely from the approval of a democratic majority</p></blockquote>
<p>In America government doesn&#8217;t derive any legitimacy from a democratic majority, as we are not a democracy. The Constitution is designed not only to protect the people from the government; it also protects us from democracy. If it did not our rights would not exist. They would be privileges subject to the whims of a democratic majority.</p>
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		<title>By: SWChance</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39143</link>
		<dc:creator>SWChance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39143</guid>
		<description>Great post, of course, Doc.  But the people who voted for this President, and the people of this Administration, don&#039;t seem to care about freedom.  If they get these heavy-handed money sucking bills through then our problems really begin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, of course, Doc.  But the people who voted for this President, and the people of this Administration, don&#8217;t seem to care about freedom.  If they get these heavy-handed money sucking bills through then our problems really begin.</p>
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		<title>By: 5u93rm4n</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/05/there-is-no-freedom-without-law/comment-page-1/#comment-39140</link>
		<dc:creator>5u93rm4n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=12267#comment-39140</guid>
		<description>Thanks Doc,

That was great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Doc,</p>
<p>That was great.</p>
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