A news fast all around would be a good idea at this point.

Nice spin.
Blake on July 6, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Especially when that helpful, constructive criticism of AP’s (and not Ace or Captain Ed) is given day after day. Oh, and has some anti-Christian nuance thrown in to be extra helpful.

I will say also that I, in my inability to understand why people are so clueless about her reasons, think that Ace, Ed, and Allah, from what I read, are in a sense wrong. However, I find it inexcusable to paint any of them as traitors, or any other such nonsense, just because in their convoluted way of thinking, this doesn’t make sense, or that they think this isn’t a shrewd decision for her in light of a possible run for the presidency. The fact that I don’t think the future possibility of her running for president played a significant role in this decision, means that for me, most bloggers seem to be missing the point. Most of the discussion is over a topic that if she considered it, it was likely a little ways down the priority list.

The whole thing is of minimal importance anyway. Real change to the governance and direction of this country isn’t likely to come from the top down. In my opinion, our only hope is for the states to assert their sovereignty over the federal government. Until that point is made by a majority of states, and done forcefully, the feds will continue to press on towards bigger, badder and more, eventually to the downfall of the country. No single person is going to change that, not Sarah Palin, not Mitt Romney, and certainly not that other guy (insert name of choice here ). So let’s focus more on what can be done, not speculation and in-fighting over that which doesn’t even really matter, please.

The problem isn’t with those that offer counter-arguments to the criticism that they see. The problem is that too many think it is verboten to even criticize to begin with, however mild and/or constructive the criticism may be. If you don’t fall into the latter camp, then Ace’s (AP’s, Ed’s, Karl’s, etc.) comments are not aimed at you.

[zerosheep on July 6, 2009 at 10:52 AM]

Do you consider headlining a post “Is Palin’s national political career over?” with a “Yes” and “It’s easily the most bizarre resignation I’ve seen, and just about senseless”, and concluding “It’s a big disappointment, and it’s the end of any hope of Palin getting taken seriously as a politician on the national level in the future” mild and/or constructive criticism?

Just wondering.

I’m much more in the [thirteen28 on July 6, 2009 at 10:45 AM] camp on this and would consider Ed’s post neither constructive nor well considered. It may have borne of the frustration, as a supporter, with Palin but it comes off and derogatory, and considering the efforts Ed makes in most of his posts to add a sense of detachment and balance in even posts wherein none is due, I found it odd he’d offered none but downside.

In fact, I found myself thinking that Patterico’s admonition on the benefits of being careful in how/what you say, during the Rush “I hope he fails.” imbroglio applicable here.

zerosheep on July 6, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Thanks. It’s nice to get at least one person to acknowledge that there has been bad faith on both sides of the divide.

thirteen28 on July 6, 2009 at 11:21 AM

That is a very good point, and I would argue against that as vociferously as I am against the ‘cultists’ like Blake here. The problem is responding emotionally rather than actually considering the argument or even whether the criticism is honestly given.

That said, in my opinion, the article addresses those that offer the kneejerk, emotional response rather than those that offer honest argument. That is how I read it anyway.

Blake on July 6, 2009 at 11:14 AM

The famous ‘bubblegum-glue’ defense; well played sir, well played.

Reading back, it certainly seems (in my mind at least) that I directly answered thirteen28, and I also fail to see that you have made anything other than a purely emotion-based argument anywhere in this thread.

I don’t ordinarily play with trolls, but sometimes I just can’t help myself. Give me one fact and/or logic based argument for your position beyond “I know you are, but what am I?” Failing that, try to actually read the actual article above.

The poster that suggested you go to DKos wasn’t far off; other than subject matter, you would fit right in there — and, yes, even at DU.

The problem isn’t with those that offer counter-arguments to the criticism that they see. The problem is that too many think it is verboten to even criticize to begin with, however mild and/or constructive the criticism may be. If you don’t fall into the latter camp, then Ace’s (AP’s, Ed’s, Karl’s, etc.) comments are not aimed at you.

zerosheep on July 6, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Well, I’ll turn this around again – one problem I see is that any counter-argument to criticism is considered to be cultish behavior. Instead of acknowledging the counterarguments, those that make them are immediately branded as cultists for Palin, such that it is verboten to defend her against her critics on the right. This grates me especially when they mindlessly buy into the MSM memes against Palin, and ironically, it only adds fuel to the fire of those that truly are cultish in the first place.

Unless of course HA & co. needed to get us’in all riled up so we could we could generate some heat and lots of comments.

IF she does have some grand plan for all of this, it would be nice to know it NOW, so that there could be a legitimate defense made for what she did, instead of all the blind speculation/support. If she had a plan that would make sense of all of this, I would be the first to defend her.

Easy to say.

Not as easy as your dismissal of what thirteen28 posted.

Care to actually make a point and/or explain how what I said was wrong? From what I’ve seen of your comments here, everything that your are saying is kneejerk, emotional responses. I don’t mean that to be insulting, just to point out that you don’t seem to actually process anything that anyone else is saying that you don’t already agree with.

zerosheep on July 6, 2009 at 11:05 AM

No, it’s been addressed. You didn’t like the answer but had to post nonsense and pretended you rebutted what he said. You’re comments are kneejerk, emotional, not well thought out, and demonstrate that you do not bother to read or have poor reading comprehension skills. And I don’t say that to insult you, but at your age – somebody need to finally tell you the truth. hth

Blake, BigDog, etc., all need to take a deep breath. HA is a news/commentary site. C4P is an advocacy site. If you don’t like the more balanced coverage here, then you’re in the wrong place.

You take a deep breath. My breathing is fine. As I already pointed out while C4P is an advocacy site it is fairer than HA and said why. I’m not going to repeat myself.

I like Palin (click through to my site if you think I’m blowing smoke), but I think her rabid, hear-see-speak-no-evil fans are going to be her biggest problem if she stays in the public arena. It’s easy to laugh at the O’s cultists, but the MSM keeps them swept under the rug. If Palin runs for office again, all her crazy cultists are going to be displayed for the world to see, and it won’t be pretty.

zerosheep on July 6, 2009 at 10:40 AM

No, I’m not going to be tricked to going to some crappy blog. As I have said repeatedly, just because someone says something unbiased about Palin once in a while doesn’t mean they are not biased or their thinking sound. And this has a lot more to do than just Palin. People are not going to get in line just because a handful of bloggers tell them to.

And some of you who think that you are political strategist experts [snicker] better start worrying how this is going to reflect on your candidates in the future. Don’t demand the damn 11th Commandment when you have refused to play by it for years or insult people you disagree with.

Nice spin.

Blake on July 6, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Easy to say. Care to actually make a point and/or explain how what I said was wrong? From what I’ve seen of your comments here, everything that your are saying is kneejerk, emotional responses. I don’t mean that to be insulting, just to point out that you don’t seem to actually process anything that anyone else is saying that you don’t already agree with.

The problem isn’t with those that offer counter-arguments to the criticism that they see. The problem is that too many think it is verboten to even criticize to begin with, however mild and/or constructive the criticism may be. If you don’t fall into the latter camp, then Ace’s (AP’s, Ed’s, Karl’s, etc.) comments are not aimed at you.

zerosheep on July 6, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Nice spin.

Kronos on July 6, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Some of them on their face are insults yet you find them reasonable. They are all taken out of context to make someone look like an aggrieved party who isn’t. Please don’t ask me to state the obvious again.

thirteen28 on July 6, 2009 at 10:45 AM

The problem isn’t with those that offer counter-arguments to the criticism that they see. The problem is that too many think it is verboten to even criticize to begin with, however mild and/or constructive the criticism may be. If you don’t fall into the latter camp, then Ace’s (AP’s, Ed’s, Karl’s, etc.) comments are not aimed at you.

Blake, you make me feel like I’m reading the DKos.

OK_Nate on July 6, 2009 at 10:11 AM

And yours make me feel like I’m reading the DUmmies.

Call out Ross Douthat’s reference to her “scandals” in his column this morning by pointing out that said scandals are a bunch of frivolous ethics complaints and the Troopergate issue where she was cleared? You must be part of the cult of personality.

Counter Goldberg’s charge that Sarah’s “whining” about the media by noting that she’s defending her own 14 year old daughter against statutory rape jokes or defending herself against an tsunami of attacks in general? You’re a cultist.

While to be fair there are some over-the-top responses to critiques of Palin (as there are from among the supporters of any politician), there are also many legitimate responses to said criticisms. The guys at C4P have done a great job at responding to criticisms of Palin with factual evidence and solid logic, yet they too get labeled as cultists.

This street runs both ways, and if Ace and others thinking like him want to be intellectually honest about it, they’ll acknowledge what’s on the other side of the coin.

Reminds me of this Churchill quote:

“Everyone is in favour of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people’s idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage.” –Winston Churchill

It applies on both sides of this argument.

I like Palin (click through to my site if you think I’m blowing smoke), but I think her rabid, hear-see-speak-no-evil fans are going to be her biggest problem if she stays in the public arena. It’s easy to laugh at the O’s cultists, but the MSM keeps them swept under the rug. If Palin runs for office again, all her crazy cultists are going to be displayed for the world to see, and it won’t be pretty.

I believe a lot of this rancor is a direct result of the left’s use of paid trolls. Paid to undermine, mislead, misdirect, and cause dissention in our ranks. But not everyone who disagrees is a troll. We need to be able to express our ideas, good, bad or indifferent, even silly. But let’s be a bit nicer and more civil about it, ok?

Personally I think Palin made an excellent move which is best for BOTH the state of Alaska AND her. And I look forward to see what she’s going to do next. Like it or not she’s become our leader and I for one wish her and her family only the best.

Remember that great post by Doctor Zero that got read in its entirety by Mark Levin on air and HA repeatedly plugged? Why wasn’t that promoted? Nope. It has to be this dishonest post.

Blake on July 6, 2009 at 10:24 AM

What specifically is your problem with this post? What part do you disagree with? I’m just curious as Ace’s comments seemed rather reasonable to me. Much more so than previous arguments in this vein that he’s made. (Like his “cultist” comments during the whole “Rush wants Obama to fail” thing. (Or was that Allah?))

Personally Ace and Allah both get on my nerves sometimes but that hardly means they’re anti-Palin.

Yes, only your hatred can strike me down. Join the left-side; you can feel its draw!

frankj on July 6, 2009 at 10:08 AM

No, frankie, your own hatred and condescension to others will strike you down. Why would I join the left? They’re your side, not mine.

Frankj, you are an a-hole. I made a mistake defending you the other day. I have since read a number of your twitter messages and posts on other sites. You’re a patronizing condescending backbiting little butt wipe. And if that is your idea of being a true conservative, then I’m definitely not one.

Blake on July 6, 2009 at 10:05 AM

Yes, only your hatred can strike me down. Join the left-side; you can feel its draw!

Man there are getting to be a lot of freaks in Hot Air comments. Being true a conservative means not constantly freaking out over everything. Only useless liberals are supposed to have enough time for that.

frankj on July 6, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Frankj, you are an a-hole. I made a mistake defending you the other day. I have since read a number of your twitter messages and posts on other sites. You’re a patronizing condescending backbiting little butt wipe. And if that is your idea of being a true conservative, then I’m definitely not one.

Comments have been closed on this post but the discussion continues here.

I don’t comment very often but I do read this site and Ace’s daily, and yes I read every article… Do you really miss all of the posts that Ace and AP and Ed have written supporting Palin? And the real question is, are you going to respond to Ace’s points posted above, which is the crux of the matter and which I can’t say better myself?

Who in their right mind, upon hearing the Palin announcement said to themselves, “Wow, what a great time to make this move. This will propel her to the Presidency for sure.” Regardless of the vague reasons used to support it, it just plain looks bad. And yes, I have been a very vocal supporter of Palin and want to see her succeed.

Allahpundit on July 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM

I have posted repeatedly the slurs and condescension you have expressed toward people here. You don’t like her. We get it. A lot of people do like her and do not respect your opinions for good reasons. You’re passive aggressive and want to throw gasoline on the fire and then whine when you get burned. Go find your own examples. What’s it suppose to prove? That people do not share the same opinion as you? Get over youself! And stop acting like a victim.

Love Palin, don’t like that she resigned, but I will wait and see what is going to happen.

You know who the happiest man is right now? Glenn Reynolds.

Not sure why it’s “despicable” given that (a) I’m on vacation and

How about CRAZY! It’s crazy to be doing this on vacation.

then you should probably be sticking with sites like Conservatives 4 Palin where nary an ill word shall be spoken, no matter what Palin does.

They obviously have a pov, however, the are fairer. It’s like pulling teeth to get anyone on HA to post any positive news on Palin. When something negative happens, C4P have to post it and then try to respond to it. With you — it’s almost all negative and slurs and rumors about Palin. And don’t give this crap about the few times you posted something positive. It is generally late and you still try to give it a negative or half a$$ spin. You think we are all fools and can’t see through that b.s.

Allahpundit on July 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM

Holy sh!t, look what being called out will do for a guy! He actually shows up and confronts people head-on! Bravo!