Hey, How About We Accept David Letterman’s Apology?
posted at 8:50 am on June 16, 2009 by Jim Treacher
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Since I’m being congratulated on both the left and the left for starting the ball rolling on this — I can’t take all the credit, guys, but thanks for the high praise — it’s probably expected of me to give a public response to Letterman’s apology last night.
He did the right thing.
He gave an apology in which he actually apologized to the specific people he wronged. Which, to some observers, is apparently optional. I don’t think it is, nor does anyone else who’s honest enough to admit what the word “apology” means, so I’m glad he specifically included an expression of regret for his actions.
And he named the wronged parties, particularly Willow and Bristol Palin. That’s the main thing. Whether he intended it or not, he hurt a kid whose only crime was going to a baseball game, and her older sister, whose only crime was having a child out of wedlock just like David Letterman. Well, that’s putting aside the unforgivable crime of being born to Sarah Palin.
He said he was sorry, and he didn’t play it for laughs (mostly). It might be a week late, but he did finally swallow his considerable pride and say it. And it only took half as long as the last “apology,” maybe because he didn’t yet again read off the jokes that got him in trouble in the first place and wait for the audience to applaud him for it.
Some people are focusing on his demurral that his intent didn’t match the public’s perception. But keep in mind, he then immediately said it didn’t matter, and nobody’s to blame for what happened but him. Basically, he was saying, “I didn’t mean it the way it came out, but the results are still my fault.” I would have liked him to explain how he and his staff were interested enough in a state governor who lost the last election to track her movements, but too lazy to make sure that their cruel slur against her daughter was actually directed at the correct one. But he did say that he honestly had no idea Willow was at that game. He should’ve said so to begin with, but at least he finally realized how important that part was.
I’m not saying I’m suddenly a Letterman fan again, but we need to accept his apology. Sarah has, and good for her. She was right to call him out on his phony apology, and she’s right to accept his real one.
Now maybe she can accept his invitation and take her message to Letterman’s audience. Maybe if he meets her face-to-face, he’ll realize she and her family are actual human beings and not just props in his game of Bash the Evil Conservatives to Keep Up with Stewart and Colbert. Heck, he might even listen to what she has to say. He might realize she has something to say.
And if she gets in a few zingers at his expense, as is her due, you can bet he’ll go out of his way to be gracious about it.
Well, a promise is a promise, so now that he’s said pretty much what I and many others demanded he say: David Letterman does not think raping little girls is funny.
P.S. I hope some can accept those of us who accept the apology.
P.P.S. To the people who are comparing this to the Imus debacle: Do what you want, but I have no interest in emulating Al Sharpton. He demands an apology and then, when it’s given, turns it down as insufficiently sincere. Most un-Christianlike behavior for a purported man of God. It might be an effective way to browbeat somebody into shutting up, but I didn’t like it then and I don’t like it now.
(Crossposted to jimtreacher.com)
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Well stated.
Snowed In on June 16, 2009 at 9:01 AM
nah..
not good enough for me.
Speech is free.. and has consequences.
It’s a lesson Letterman is going to learn the hard way.
DaveC on June 16, 2009 at 9:20 AM
Hear, hear! Well said. I’ll likely never be a fan of his again. But he lost me quite some time ago. So I’ve lost nothing there. I thought his apology had all the right ingredients. But, I also KNOW, as we all do, he would NOT be swallowing “his considerable pride” if it weren’t for the hue and cry we all sent up, and you were like the Grand Master of the Bandwagon! So thanks for that, Treach!
Minorcan Maven on June 16, 2009 at 9:25 AM
Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems to me Letterman said that if he had only mentioned Bristol by name in the joke, the joke would have been fine. In his eyes, his only crime was allowing the “perception” that the joke referred to Willow. And then he mentions Bristol by name in the apology, but what is he apologizing to her for? He’s not apologizing for insulting her in the joke, because he’s already said the only problem with the joke is the perception that it referred to Willow. Is he apologizing to Bristol for not making it clear the joke was about her? Whatever.
mbs on June 16, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Screw him. I`m doing what Al Sharpton does. Imus said he was sorry and he got fired anyway. Not good enough. I am continuing faxing CBS advertisers and intend to go an protest outside the Sullivan theater today.
The progressives have changed the rulebook. I intend to give them back their Alinsky garbage. Pick a target and freeze it baby. I`m over it. He isn`t sorry. The boycott is working. Embassy Suites cancelled their advertising. On to J&J, Kellogs and Olive Garden. The truth be told the Hillary PUMA Democrats engineered this whole thing. They showed us conservatives how to do it. They ain`t quitting and neither am I.
Jayrae on June 16, 2009 at 9:50 AM
It’s not up to me to say whether or not the apology is sufficient. That choice is entirely up to Gov. Palin and she has accepted. That’s enough for me.
Having said that, I have no problems with the Conservative Lesbian’s battle to get Dave fired. She mentioned that that was the difference between Democrats (which she used to be) and Republicans. GOPers typically have lives and move on to more important things, while Democrats will worry little bones like this until they get results. She thinks that maybe, just maybe, the GOP should play the type of hardball that Democrats usually play. Get results just once and the left might think twice before engaging in crap like this.
Physics Geek on June 16, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Pffffft, er no.
moonsbreath on June 16, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Well, at least you’re honest enough to admit it.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 10:04 AM
I agree with mbs. What Letterman said is the same as saying: “I’m sorry what I said made you so angry.”
.
There’s no acknowledgment of fault except in how the words are received. Whether they are hateful or perfectly innocent depends only on the person who hears them and chooses how to receive them.
.
Ultimately it’s for the best that Sarah chooses to accept his apology. But it doesn’t mean his snide, self-affirming word-games should not be pointed out at least.
Matushka on June 16, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Confirmed: Treacher is a wuss.
promachus on June 16, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Go jump in a lake. He did what I said he should do. If you can’t accept that the principle of the thing is enough, maybe this will assuage your bloodlust a bit: Palin has been vindicated, and Letterman’s massive ego has taken an even more massive hit.
But if you want to keep waving your torch and/or pitchfork, don’t let me stop you.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Palin understands the value of choosing her battles. When Letterman smeared her daughters, she fought him with passion. She indicated earlier that she would accept an apology if one was offered- When Dave offered an (admittedly imperfect) apology, she accepted it (while noting a few pointed items in her own statement.)
She could refuse to let it go, but that would be fulfilling the “she’s just a whiner with a victim mentality” meme.
Though I’ll restate what I said in another thread- I think she should stay off his show. She can get viewers/attention from many other sources, and Letterman would get the greater benefit if Palin went on his show. Not worth it to her, IMO.
cs89 on June 16, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Palin has had her say. Now we will have ours.
Fire Lecherman.
promachus on June 16, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Whoa. Easy there, buddy. I see no reason to start name-calling just because we disagree with one of our own (and make no mistake, I disagree).
This thing will fizzle out, but it’s kind of difficult for me to believe that it should.
Refreshing honesty, indeed. But tell me Jim, where does this pathological conservative need come from, to prove that “we’re better than that?” We’ll take the high ground, only to get pushed off and find ourselves rolling down the hill.
gryphon202 on June 16, 2009 at 10:39 AM
It’s called principles.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 10:46 AM
To sum up what I’ve said in the blog threads:
Palin: classy, fought back like she should have, and graciously accepting an apology without vindicating the joke. In other words, she forgave the sinner, not the sin.
Letterman: told 3 offensive stupid jokes, gave a BS apology, got scared stiff by thread of money/job loss and gave a real apology.
I’m willing to let it go because as it stands it’s a complete win for Palin, and Letterman (eventually) did the right thing.
I won’t begrudge others for not letting it go, but I’d love to see this end only so Palin can get more credit for billion dollar pipeline deals, etc.
DrAllecon on June 16, 2009 at 10:52 AM
That of course should have read “threat” not “thread”
DrAllecon on June 16, 2009 at 10:54 AM
We can forgive, but should never forget
scottm on June 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Well thanks for clarifying; I’m still not sure that standing on this principle advances the conservative cause, but this beef is between Sarah Palin and David Letterman, I guess…won’t do me any good to stay upset about it, and won’t do anyone else any good either, much as it pains me to admit.
gryphon202 on June 16, 2009 at 11:07 AM
I’m not particularly interested in “advancing the conservative cause,” whatever that is. He said something awful about a little girl to strike at her mom, and he’s apologized to them for it. It’s not about politics, it’s about simple human decency.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 11:12 AM
I’ll accept his phony apologies when he starts telling tasteless, classless jokes about Democrats’ kids, including the most famous political children, the Obama daughters.
Until then, no dice.
I’m against the boycott and demand for his firing, but in no way does Letterman deserve to be forgiven.
It’s nice that Sarah Palin did the politically correct political move and “accepted his apology”, and it’s nice that you think the rest of us should be politically correct and accept it too. However, any man who calls a woman slutty-looking simply because she is attractive and implies her daughter a whore, even in jest, would never be forgiven by any woman who was not a politician. And I bet Sarah and Todd Palin still don’t forgive him. She’s being gracious because she has to in order to maintain her stature as a politician. This is a distraction for her and she got rid of it by just publicly making a statement to “accept his apology” so she could move on. She took the opportunity to highlight how his joke should be unacceptable (just like Obama used the Imus joke as an opportunity to highlight that being unacceptable) and now is moving on.
But I don’t for one second believe she and Todd have accepted this fraud of an apology.
Case in point:
Boyfriend: Wow that outfit makes you look like a slutty flight attendant.
Girlfriend: What!?
Boyfriend: Oh, come on, it was just a joke.
(1 week later, after phone calls, e-mails and texts not returned)
Boyfriend: Okay, okay, I’m sorry. My intention was not to call you a slut, but I’m sorry you perceived it that way.
Yeah, anyone think that girl is going to just accept that apology? Not on your life.
And if any guy joked about a woman’s daughter getting knocked up by a baseball player, simply because he knew the woman’s daughter was a single mother? You think there is anything he could say to be forgiven? Not a chance.
So this “accepting his apology” nonsense is simply political. If you want to accept it, Jim, that is your business. But some of the rest of us are not going to accept this kind of tasteless, crass, sexist crap being called acceptable in our society.
Now, if it was equal opportunity tasteless, crass, sexist crap, that is one thing. But we all know that Letterman — and the rest of his ilk in the mass media and on the Left — are telling these jokes not to be objectively funny, but to smear, humiliate and demonize people they do not like. It’s not about making a joke about an easy target. Obama is an easy target and they don’t joke about him. So these jokes are told with hate and anger and malice, not with being objective.
If you want to let that go, Jim and accept an “apology” he gave, not because he’s sincere, but because his bosses and advertisers pressured him into it, that’s fine. But I am all in favor of keeping the pressure on him, calling him out as the mean, sexist POS that he is and then advocating that people stop watching him.
There is absolutely no reason beyond political to accept either of his “apologies”. Had any man made these jokes about any woman and her daughter, I have to believe that 99% of warm-blooded people would kick the living crap out of that man and never accept any half-assed “apology”. So nothing gets changed, simply because Letterman happens to be a “celebrity”.
Michael in MI on June 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Right. Now personalize this Jim. Had some schmuck called your wife slutty-looking and insinuated your daughter was a whore, then laughed it off when you were offended and then only a week later, when you threatened him with punishment in some way (exposing him to him employer, exposing him to his family, meeting him in a dark alley for a lesson in simple human decency), he gave a half-assed apology, you’re telling me all would be forgiven?
You really must have a much higher tolerance for BS than most people, because I would never forgive someone for insults like that to my family. If they did like Letterman did and gave a half-assed “apology” to deter me from being the sh** out of them? I’d hold off on the beating, but I wouldn’t forgive them. I’d simply tell them “you’ve exposed yourself as an a-hole, good to know, now get lost and I never want to see you again in my life.”
And speaking of simple human decency, how does this teach a lesson to people of Letterman’s ilk? If we want simple human decency, I would think we’d want people of Letterman’s ilk showing it as well. Accepting his half-assed apology just tells him and the rest of his ilk that they can say tasteless, sexist crap like that and completely get away with it, with no repercussions. We have set the precedent that they can think “last time I told a tasteless joke, all I had to do was give a half-assed apology and those stupid, pushover right-wingers moved on”.
Michael in MI on June 16, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Um … Treach … buddy. We weren’t wronged. Hence it makes no sense to suggest that “we” (conservatives as a whole, I guess?) accept his apology. Palin and her kids were wronged. Her relationship with ol’ Dave is her business.
Those of us watching will simply note his actions and come to our own conclusions about the man’s character. (Personally, I think he’s a dirtbag, but that’s sort of par for TV hosts isn’t it?) Seems simple enough. Turning grievance into political kabuki is kinda silly, don’t you think? I guess that’s sort of at everybody on this “should we or shouldn’t we accept his apology” debate. The whole premise of the question is flawed.
We can’t accept an apology for someone else. We can only make a judgment call on the man. Some will look at what he did, others will look at how he responded to criticism for what he did. I know what I find the more telling.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Even if you don’t have kids, presumably you were one yourself. Do I really need to explain the concept of principles?
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I like the way this has played out.
Governor Palin has won her first total victory over the left. With the support she got (albeit begrudgingly) from the National Organization for Women and even Joy Freaking Behar (ditto), Palin has raised her profile as a strong, determined leader and a cultural force to be reckoned with, not just laughed at and brushed off.
This is a shot across the bow of any person who thinks Palin is nothing more than an irrelevant punching bag to be held up as an example of unsophisticated, rural conservatism. As I detailed last week, the news media’s unprecedented embrace of Tina Fey’s malicious impersonation and the entertainment media’s reluctance to create satire targeting Obama shows how humor has been appropriated as a partisan weapon. But now, when Palin is the target, both her critics and their audiences will remember Letterman’s capitulation at virtual populist gunpoint just as much as they remember Fey’s brazen disrespect.
As long as Palin continues making progress toward the promised pipeline and doesn’t make any major missteps in Alaska, this might be the moment at which we can look back and say she changed the way she is perceived by all Americans for good.
L.N. Smithee on June 16, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Do I really need to explain the concept of apologies?
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 11:50 AM
This is kind of a “Trust, But Verify” situation. Take Letterman at his word, but keep the DVR going in the future, to make sure he doesn’t fall back to his past ways once he thinks the media spotlight is shining elsewhere (and message to Dave — Just because Keith Olbermann does it, doesn’t mean you have to do it too, unless you want to end up like Dan Rather with some partisan comedy show up in the 600 digital channel tier that nobody watches).
jon1979 on June 16, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Maybe you should, because I don’t see your point.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 11:54 AM
This would make sense, I guess, if that was what I’m doing. I’m pointing out that he hurt a child, inadvertently or not, and he’s finally apologized to her. I’ve been yelling at him to do that, and he’s done it, so now I’m going to stop yelling. Not sure what’s so confusing about that.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Wow, really? Because I have expressed an opinion about that weak tea “apology” that it’s insincere and too excuse-laden to be a real apology you’re comparing me to serial race-baiter/profiteer Sharpton?
Laura on June 16, 2009 at 12:14 PM
I don’t think anyone but Sarah and her family were actually wronged. You may take offense but that’s ultimately your choice because the issue isn’t about you. You may have principles that Dave violated but I don’t see how they’re relevant. After all, not everybody will share your principles and it’s silly to expect them to apologize for failing to do so.
Yeah, he gave one of those broad spectrum “I apologize to everyone I offended” apologies. I don’t care. I think they’re moronic. I don’t think Dave has the capacity to feel remorse at “offending” so many people. He didn’t care when he made the joke and he knows how big his audience is.
People are pissed for two reasons. First, they’re just taking up ought for Sarah since they like her and her kids. Bad idea, for a number of reasons.
Second, they see themselves as wronged because, well, they like kids and you shouldn’t make bad jokes about kids! Um. Yeah. That’s stupid. We make jokes about all sorts of broad categories – some of them taboo. *gasp* And yet this one gets to be sacrosanct somehow? It all smacks of adopting grievance culture, and I’m not into it. It reduces apologies to being utterly meaningless. They’re freely given these days – especially the aforementioned broad spectrum variety.
So yeah. Report it. Make your call about Dave. Then let it drop – his apology to the Palins is their concern. His apology to everyone else is meaningless and debating whether or not “we” (whoever that happens to be) should accept it is an exercise in futility.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 12:17 PM
What are you doing differently?
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM
I don’t get how that’s any different than what I just said, but your advice has been noted.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:20 PM
I agree with you Jim, thank you. It’s not our place to keep harping on a guy who didn’t wrong us personally, and the person he did wrong forgave. If the Republican party is really as Christian as the Dems think we are, we would all forgive. It’s up to God to decide whether Letterman’s apology was sincere… not up to us. Remember that the measure we mete will also be used to measure us and also, for us it is required to forgive all men. That doesn’t mean you have to watch his show or anything, but at least forgive.
Those who aren’t Christian, well, it’s still ridiculous to harp on this once the person actually wronged has accepted the apology. It makes the party look petty.
Christina D on June 16, 2009 at 12:21 PM
I just switched off Rush in frustration for the moment because he continues not to get it about the joke, saying that it wouldn’t have been funny about any woman.
That’s not true. If Paris Hilton had been the target, it would have been kinda funny, because Hilton has a reputation for being a hard-partying tramp going back nearly a decade, and the married A-Rod has been documented to have partied with strippers on the road. So what did Bristol Palin do that made her the target of that kind of barb? Having a child out of wedlock? Uh, your lovely new wife and the mother of your son did that too, Dave, and so did millions of other people in your audience who don’t hate Palin with a passion.
On top of that, Letterman didn’t seem to care that some thought he was referring to Willow in last Monday’s A-Rod joke referring to “her daughter,” and threw in the Spitzer joke the following night. Combine that with his reference to Palin’s “slutty flight attendant look” in Monday’s Top Ten list, and you can see where Dave and his writers’ heads are at: “Palin’s a bimbo and a slut, and so is/are her daughter(s). Ha ha!”
It just occurred to me that perhaps Letterman doesn’t have any female writers. I know Madeleine Smithberg left Letterman to preside over the revamped Daily Show with then-forgotten Jon Stewart (who was then best known for his short-lived show made from the ashes of The Arsenio Hall Show) and won an Emmy and a Peabody.
L.N. Smithee on June 16, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I guess I’m taking issue with how the debate is framed. “Accept or don’t accept the apology.” It strikes me as phony. It annoys me when the left does it and it annoys me when we do it.
Yes, we’re all terribly offended at something someone said about another person’s kid. Sure. Let’s just say I don’t think that that standard is being uniformly applied. It’s part people taking offense too easily and part annoyance at phony apologies that cheapen the act of apologizing. I don’t think we really mean it, and I don’t think Dave does either, but we’re going to go through this dance over it anyway … because we have to, I guess.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Merrill Markoe was his head writer for years. A few years back she wrote an, ahem, totally fictional account of a TV writer and her abusive relationship with a comedy star.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Did you actually read past the headline?
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Luke 17:3
fronclynne on June 16, 2009 at 12:29 PM
First, I’m not looking for profit or revenge. Second, if I were convinced it was an apology I’d have gladly accepted it. It’s not unChristian or bullying behavior to engage in critical thinking. I laid out the reasons why I don’t believe it’s either an apology or sincere. You disagree, fine… but you seem to be saying that assessing someone’s sincerity is beyond the pale. Except, you know, when you assess mine; I’m not merely expressing an opinion, I’m engaging in unChristian, browbeating behavior.
Laura on June 16, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Fair enough. Best of luck.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Good post, Jim. I like to see it when one of us Conservatives shows what mature, composed adults act like, able to forgive and move on. Far too many who label themselves as Christians on the Right appear to care more about their own politics and grievances than they do acting out their Christianity and treating others decently first before any other consideration, which reflects badly both on the Right and on their claims of Christianity.
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 12:43 PM
I look at Letterman as the school bully usually surrounded by their goons. Letterman’s goons are his left leaning New York audience each night who laugh and clap at anything. The only way he will ever change is if the nutroots in their tinfoil hats stop laughing and as long as he makes jokes at the expense of conservatives that is not about to happen. Can you just imagine what would have happened to him if he had put on that show, the first apology and the one last night before a true Red State audience. It would have been for me a blessing, and a show we would soon not forget, plus a message to all the kool aid drinkers that were not going to take it anymore. He is a bully and he is never going to change and like all bullys they can dish it out but they can’t take it so in MHOP don’t forgive him keep piling it on!
amex on June 16, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Laura, Al Sharpton prob didn’t find Imus’ apology sincere either. So again, how are you different from Sharpton? Both of you demanded apologies, and when given, still deemed them phony and not enough.
Palin Steele on June 16, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Yeah. And?
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Jim, I appreciate the post. As a moderate liberal with many conservative stances, I appreciate visiting a conservative blog that isn’t hyperpartisan and simply about belittling the ‘other side’. Keep your voice strong and hopefully, you can have some influence on your fellow conservatives.
Palin Steele on June 16, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Nothing. Well said.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Just leave your political bias out of your show. You’re not funny anymore. There was a time…. but it’s gone, dude.
CynicalOptimist on June 16, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Jim, did you ever officially accept Micah Wright’s apology for lying about his military service?
If not, what distinguishes his case from Letterman’s? It is a matter of degree or kind?
Background for those who may have missed/forgotten those events:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A60120-2004May1¬Found=tru
http://jimtreacher.com/ranger.htm
Terry_Dyne on June 16, 2009 at 12:56 PM
With all respect, Jim, it would be one thing if it had worked, but it hasn’t (even if Maher isn’t mainstream the way Letterman is). If Letterman pays for this with his job and forum (and not his income that’d be guaranteed by his contracts, I’m guessing), then we won’t have to worry about anything like this ever happening again from mainstream shows while the Left can keep their wanking to themselves on cable where most people don’t see it on the fringe.
You’re right, the Governor should now stay out of it because getting a third insincere apology isn’t going to improve her standing, but conservatives representing themselves can still go after the MSM over the issue of their hypocrisy that the Governor’s family (and every other Republican’s) is fair game when we know that isn’t the case for the Dems or anyone else on the Left. That’s what our complaints should be centred on now, sticking with reaming Letterman, without involving the Governor personally.
(And I’m not attacking you as a squish.)
andycanuck on June 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Jim, your use of “torch and/or pitchfork” and “bloodlust” is telling. Tarring those that disagree with you with an extremist brush is a leftist tactic, used frequently by Obama and his enablers, and frankly beneath you. You complain about Sharpton’s browbeating. Who is doing the browbeating on this thread?
I’m a huge fan of yours. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve laughed out loud at your tweets and sent friends links to your blog posts. I disagree with your position on this, but I’m happy to agree to disagree. What really bothers me is your rhetoric. You’ve stated that you think Letterman’s apology is sufficient, and that you personally are ready to move on. Okay. What is the need to castigate those who don’t agree? Is this bully pulpit going to your head?
Missy on June 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Missy, how are conservatives who want letterman boycotted and fired any different from the al sharptons of the world who wanted Imus boycotted and fired?
Palin Steele on June 16, 2009 at 1:07 PM
People who don’t accept Letterman’s apology because they don’t believe it was sincere enough are playing the role of God by judging Dave’s heart, aren’t they? I readily admit it’s funny to me to see them complain about others who dislike their self-righteousness and presumptuousness considering that fact…
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 1:09 PM
BTW, folks, Palin Steele is a leftie troll who frequents Ace of Spades pretending to be a “moderate” but who says stupid things like “I’m ashamed of the right, that I’m a concerned moderate member of, for going after Michelle Obama because the Left never, ever does anything like this about any Republican women or First Ladies ever.” And then when given Google links for hundreds of thousands of “laura bush/palin women is a slut etc.” hits, doesn’t bother returning to answer for being so wrong. He’s much the same here, I see, but come back to Ace’s, PoS, where the gloves are always off to really tell you to sod off unlike here in the middle class sitting room that is HotAir.
andycanuck on June 16, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Perhaps there’s a playground incident from 4th grade I should address as well.
Micah Wright did pretty much the same thing Letterman did, except he tried to erase his original “apology.” And the one he finally settled on was nowhere near as sincere or contrite as Letterman’s. But other than that, excellent parallel.
I’m sure they’ll say the same thing at the “Fire Letterman” rally.
Must be. After all, you disagree with me.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 1:13 PM
It’s Internets people. You’re getting barely filtered Id and things get heated. *shrug*
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 1:21 PM
I’m sure they’ll say the same thing at the “Fire Letterman” rally.
Yes, there are people who are hollering for Letterman’s head. Not everyone is one of them.
I don’t want Letterman to be fired. I think he screwed up; hopefully he’s learned from it. I also think his apology was late and unpersuasive. I could be wrong, but I like to think this constitutes reasonable disagreement.
The “torch and pitchfork” stuff is insulting and counterproductive to readers who disagree with you on some aspects but might otherwise be persuaded by your argument. That’s all I’m saying.
Missy on June 16, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Leave Jim alone!
He’s just a blogger with a sense of humor!
If you all don’t stop this now, the National Organization for Bloggers With A Sense of Humor (NOBWASH) will be protesting you.
NOBWASHers everywhere, unite!
Brian1972 on June 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Guess I’ll just have to learn to live with it.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Missy on June 16, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Now I feel betrayed. Where is the sweet, gentle orang-utan of yore I thought I knew so well? Has Mr. Treacher finally lost it? Was it ever his to begin with? Did he hold it too tightly and it slipt between his fingers? Did he love it but let it go, only to find out it wasn’t his to begin with?
fronclynne on June 16, 2009 at 2:08 PM
David Letterman does not think raping little girls is funny
Ofcourse he does. I mean the same piece of crap who saw nothing wrong to joke abote it a while ago is standing in front of you right now. Nothing changed except for whatever selfish reason he figured out he should appologize. All this “he should apologize” taken out of propaganda struggle (like the Left takes it, the Left which actually fights us instead of constant conservative self-doubt and “they are great guys who happen to disagree” stuff) and perceived as if it can reflect on his conscience is really childish. No offence Jim, but you really shouldn’t take some bullshit damage controll (or whatever it is) as some sort of suddenly popped up conscience.
Alexey on June 16, 2009 at 3:04 PM
I am an Imus Fan, and I DON’T CARE if David Letterman apologized. Geeze Jim you can forgive a fake apology all you want by someone who couldn’t get any lower in the bottom feeding department. I don’t watch Letterman, and I am not going to start watching Letterman. That’s the great thing about the Free Market, people can vote with their remote. So To Hell with David Letterman, and his fake apology. It’s a Day Late, and a Dollar Short.
Let’s forgive him because he is submitting to the pressure because Hillbuzz and others are boycotting his sponsors? But David Letterman is still the same person he was, making a statutory rape joke in the first place….I don’t CARE if he gets fired, I don’t CARE if he apologizes. I don’t CARE about David Letterman at all.
I just love how a MAN is telling all of us, we should do the christian thing and forgive David Letterman, where does that authority come from? I am a Woman and a Mother, I don’t have to forgive this kind of Slime directed toward women -little girls because you think a fake apology makes it all okay. That’s even more insulting.
Dr Evil on June 16, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Eh. I want Dave fired because he’s not funny, and better comedians could use the job.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 3:10 PM
That sarcasm or did you read the other thing I wrote? I’m not really arguing with your point so much as the logic it took to get there in the first place.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 3:11 PM
“I don’t CARE about David Letterman at all” sums up you and your demeanor well Dr. Evil, I’d say. That sounds very CHRISTIAN, did you know that?
Are you in Dave’s heart? Do you know for a fact beyond mere belief that Dave’s heart was, is, and will forever be black and unredeemed?
This isn’t as hard as you make it seem – if you read your NT, you’d see that as someone here as already pointed out in Luke 17:3-4, Jesus commands that we forgive our brothers who ask for it. If you don’t like that, fine, but then, what kind of Christian does that make you if you don’t follow His commandments?
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM
What’s in my heart is none of your business, I don’t comment here to be preached to by other commenter. You don’t know me, and I have not solicited any advice from you spiritual or otherwise.
Dr Evil on June 16, 2009 at 3:46 PM
LOL
You don’t show the love or humility of a convert to Christianity, I can say that with authority!!!
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 3:52 PM
I don’t know you and I have no interest in having a discussion with you. Save it for some other fool who falls for your fake righteousness.
Dr Evil on June 16, 2009 at 3:56 PM
I was about to say the same thing.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Jim, you do believe Christians should forgive other people who ask for it, don’t you? Have I crossed some unacceptable line that wasn’t already breached by others, including you, here?
Didn’t Dr. Evil open up the door about the topic on a personal level by saying, “I just love how a MAN is telling all of us, we should do the christian thing and forgive David Letterman, where does that authority come from? I am a Woman and a Mother, I don’t have to forgive…”? I addressed what she asked by pointing out that Christians are authorized and commanded by Jesus to forgive others who ask for it, that it’s not a matter of choice for Christians – would you rather of had me left that slow curveball just hanging instead of pointing that truth out?
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Call it whatever you want. A rape joke has been made which is typical for lowlifes (i.e. for someone who don’t take such things as raping a girl seriously). Such stuff happens everyday million of times. On the other hand while it’s possible that someone who does take these things seriously would make such comment it is highly unlikely (It never occured in my experience). Any person with an ounce of common sense knows that 1) conscience is not such a thing that would pop up all of a sudden 2) to appologize for whatever reason without actualy feeling remorse is a very common thing especially when you have an obvious interest in doing so (like Letterman). Dr. Evil’s position is simply that of common sense. Yours is that of retarded lefty troll. That’s just how it is.
Alexey on June 16, 2009 at 4:20 PM
LOL
I am a “lefty troll” simply because I believe Dave isn’t as bad and unredeemable of a person as you believe he is? You are not a good debater, sorry to break it to you…
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Could you repeat the question?
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Are you wise/smart enough to understand the following?
I expect better, more serious responses from you to points such as the one I made to you, but you reacted about as poorly to my point as I expected you to. Can you dig that, Jim?
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 4:33 PM
You’re a lefty troll (or at least acting like one) because of dumb self-righteous goofing on someone elses Christian beliefs.
Also I’m not a Christian and I don’t care about “redemption” as a Christian concept. I know that sometimes (not too often as ) people who don’t give a crap about decency, compassion, morals etc (not that they don’t talk about that, they do, oh boy they do) change. It’s a deep and lifechanging thing and to some extent I’m one of such people. However to regard a usual “I’m sorry” made under pressure and a few days after offence as something akin to that – it’s imho not that smart to put it mildly.
Alexey on June 16, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Oh and by the way, Bizzaro, did Letterman really asked to be forgived (like you know “Forgive me”, “I hope you will forgive me” etc)? The stuff like “I appologize” doesn’t count and is not anything near in force than actually asking for forgiveness. The vid is no longer available and I can’t watch it but my money is that no request for forgiveness has been done and thus your point is just another stupidity.
Alexey on June 16, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Actually, that isn’t your call: it’s Palin’s. And she has made it. If you want more, that’s your right. However, you have no right to presume whether or not an apology is sufficient. That right belongs to the aggrieved which, unless you’re Sarah Palin’s clone, isn’t you.
Physics Geek on June 16, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Um, FYI genius, I didn’t goof on Dr. Evil’s beliefs – if you’ll bother to look back at what I actually did say, I commented on her unloving behavior, and I asked her what kind of Christian she was if she doesn’t follow Jesus’ own requirements about forgiveness. If merely asking someone a question like that is preachy or somehow self-righteous, explain how…
It’s nice to know these thoughts of yours, dear! Thanks for sharing them!!!
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Well, ain’t that something.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 5:08 PM
I appreciate an optimistic outlook, but I disagree with you on a few points.
The proper reponse then, is, “How did you mean it, Dave? You’ve had a week to polish the joke. Let’s hear it the way it was meant to be heard. Show me how an 18-year-old having forced sex in the stadium during a game is not just inoffensive, but funny, Dave.”
No, the second apology was not real. It was half apology, half excuse. Palin accepted it because she’s a better person than he his. She’s also kinder, letting this sordid affair die rather than hurting her family more by dragging it out, waiting for a never-gonna-happen real apology.
You, sir, are living in a dream world. Letterman has made a career out of ridiculing others. He would have his biggest audience in years were Palin to appear. He would NEVER be able to pass at a chance to do a “Katie” on her.
ROCnPhilly on June 16, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Not only are you not a good debater, your reading comprehension skills aren’t so polished, either. Since I never mentioned anything about Letterman asking for forgiveness, why are you talking as though I did?
Stop trying so hard to find something to fight with me over – it’s making you look really, really petty…
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Bizzaro,
Alexey on June 16, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Apology not accepted, and here’s why. Letterman claimed to be wounded that anyone would believe that it was his intent to joke about a 14 year old girl having sex with a stranger in a public place. He has clung to this strange notion of intent throughout.
Fine. Clearly, he is not apologetic, judging his intent. He claims responsibility for having told the joke wrong, or because his nasty little NY queer writers didn’t get the research right, or some such. He isn’t sorry that he said a nasty thing, only that you stupid people misunderstood his intent, which was to call Bristol Palin a slut who would happily engage in sex with a strange man in public.
Further, his intent was also very clearly to insult Sarah Palin and her daugthers as sluts.
Jaibones on June 16, 2009 at 6:03 PM
And lose more sponsors?
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 6:19 PM
I don’t beleive he would be stupid enough to call her or her daughter “slutty” again. But ridicule need not be so overt. Did Katie Couric lose CBS any sponsors?
ROCnPhilly on June 16, 2009 at 6:53 PM
oops! “beleive” = believe
ROCnPhilly on June 16, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Katie Couric never called Palin’s daughter a whore. I think Palin is in a slightly better bargaining position here.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 7:05 PM
I can’t treat this as an apology because Letterman still says it’s perfectly acceptable to degrade Bristol Palin anytime Gov. Palin has the nerve to show her face in public.
But I could accept it as a truce–provided that Letterman stops telling those jokes.
This is barely similar to when Rush Limbaugh called Chelsea Clinton the “white house dog.” That was a one-off, and Rush apologized. Here, we have an ongoing campaign to degrade the Palin family by repeating the same nasty jokes over and over.
daryl_herbert on June 16, 2009 at 7:09 PM
Agree with Treacher. The point has been made. Time to move on.
ddrintn on June 16, 2009 at 7:10 PM
You guys know the phrase “bearding the lion in his own den”? Well, he just handed her a whip, a chair, and a pair of scissors.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 7:13 PM
^ Look, Reagan (sorry to go back to him) was hated and ridiculed by most of the media. He didn’t nourish some grudge. Kill ‘em with a smile is the best strategy, especially after an apology has been offered.
ddrintn on June 16, 2009 at 7:13 PM
It was close to an apology, much closer than liberals usually get. He was still spinning lies to try to convince people that he didn’t do anything wrong, of course… liberals are inherently dishonest.
If this had come out last week, then, yeah, it would have been acceptable. But now it’s too little, too late.
malclave on June 16, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Hmmmm…. Letterman gets viewers, a bit of credibility back, a chance to put her gently back into her place as a buffoon. Palin gets… what?
Nope. I’m glad she declined the invite.
ROCnPhilly on June 16, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Okay – I will quit calling sponsers. Beccause I like you, Treacher. Plus, I am thrilled to be able to comment!
djl130 on June 16, 2009 at 8:30 PM
As I’ve tried to explain, it is in his best interest right now not to paint her as a buffoon, and in fact to treat her with kid gloves.
Which was made before he gave her an apology worth accepting. I think she could use his platform to promote her issues and show that she’s a good sport, at a time when he’s pretty much at her mercy.
Unless you think she’s not up to it. Unless you think she hasn’t learned anything from the last 10 months.
Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Agree w/ Jim on this. It’s not up to us to be “successful,” i.e. in this case beat up the libs better than they beat us up. If we stick to our principles we have already won, no matter what they do politically. Sarah knows this and this is why she handled this totally right, from start to finish – because she lives her principles all day every day.
And accepting an apology which, yes, contained some self serving and pride-protecting elements, but which WAS an apology, is simply the right thing to do.
inviolet on June 16, 2009 at 8:49 PM
We disagree here.
She’s definitely learned quite a bit since the campaign. New publicist? I’m not certain she’s up to taking on Letterman, though. She has a real job working as state governor. He makes a living mocking people. I, for one, would prefer to see her slowly gain support from previous scoffers. Slow and steady. She has a chance here for a political do-over. Obama’s spending should help long-term.
Perhaps we should agree to disagree?
ROCnPhilly on June 16, 2009 at 11:17 PM
There does come a point after continuous attacks when he’ll become the victim. Should that happen, all else ’till that point will be lost.
eforhan on June 17, 2009 at 8:34 AM
Bizarro No. 1 on June 16, 2009 at 5:04 PM.
Well imagine a Troll, who would have guessed that one…SARC!
Dr Evil on June 17, 2009 at 8:58 AM
I agree with Laura. And FYI no one has to forgive EVIL in fact God requires us to confront EVIL.
David Letterman’s so called joke was about Statutory Rape….that is indefensible so he changed it to the older daughter, and you all are willing to buy whatever he is selling GO AHEAD. Is Statutory Rape EVIL? I guess if your a man you can describe his so called joke as something else.
He is going to get hurt by this he is going to lose sponsors, I doubt he will be fired. Does it make any difference to me. NOPE. I don’t watch him now, and for sure will not watch him in the future. Will I boycott his sponsors, I sure am leaning in that direction.
Let’s see Hillbuzz has the list.
Dr Evil on June 17, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Were you satisfied with David Letterman’s apology to Sarah Palin?
28% yes
72% no
http://wcbstv.com/entertainment/david.letterman.protest.2.1047451.html
Dr Evil on June 17, 2009 at 9:55 AM
But hey, Stephen Crowder says we should never have gotten angry in the first place, ya bunch of poo-poo heads.
eforhan on June 17, 2009 at 10:10 AM
But hey, Stephen Crowder says we should never have gotten angry in the first place, ya bunch of poo-poo heads.
eforhan on June 17, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Crowder kissing up to Letterman? Letterman has a talk show that showcases comedians go figure, they are all singing the same tune…that didn’t happen with Imus, in fact the only person -comedian in his case, that took any stand was D.L.Hughley.
I guess Crowder goes down in the self serving column.
Dr Evil on June 17, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Look, people can disagree on this without becoming the enemy… I’m perplexed why that lame “I meant Bristol” excuse is getting any play with conservatives but that’s rapidly becoming the new Conventional Wisdom, along with the idea that this was a serious apology. Whatever. I still like Treacher, and I still like Crowder, and I don’t think it’s self-serving or kissing up to Letterman or anything else to express an opinion about this whole fiasco. I definitely don’t think Crowder has any expectations of getting on Letterman’s show.
Laura on June 17, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I heard back from Best Western and eBay, both insist they were computer generated ads and they do not support any show in particular or point of view.
Nothing from the rest of the listed advertisers.
I still say he doesn’t realize he did anything wrong, Dennis Miller even said that he should have realized how bad it was in rehearsal and pulled it.
ProudinNC on June 17, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Laura on June 17, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I believe Crowder is being self serving. There is no other reason to tell Women of all political ideology, that they shouldn’t get angry about the Statutory Rape Joke in the first place.
I am an Independent if Republican Men think it is such a little thing to make a ?joke? like this about a child. I am pretty happy I am an Independent.
21% Identify Liberal
38% Moderate
40% Conservative
Let’s see N.O.W. would be considered Liberal, PUMAS Moderate and a lot of Conservatives, me included voted for Palin. So no it’s not just a Republican Thing. I don’t need any Man telling me how I should accept anything. That’s my business.
Crowder is a Conservative Comedian, that has a right to an opinion, and he can speak for himself. BUT it stops right there (Remember Individuals – Conservatives are always championing Individual Rights) Not Crowder or anyone else get’s to tell me how to respond to anything.
Yes I believe Crowder is self serving, and he is thinking only of the politics of the issue. This is more than just politics. This is a Social Issue that involves women and children, and how they are treated in this country. If I want to be told what to accept and react to a man making ugly comments about little girls in the media “Letterman”. I will move to the middle east, where women are told how to behave and speak, where women are lucky if they are even considered second class people.
Letterman didn’t just insult Republican women, he angered PEOPLE from every political ideology That includes Fathers, Uncles,Grandfathers, Brothers…
CBS Poll last time I checked. Who Accepts Letterman’s apology.
28% Yes
72% NO
Hmmmmm I am getting the impression more people agree with me than Crowder.
Dr Evil on June 18, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Re-read Crowder’s article. He isn’t saying don’t get angry about a statutory rape joke. He’s saying there was no statutory rape joke in the first place:
In short, he bought Letterman’s tardy and weak excuse that he meant to call Bristol a slut instead of Willow. And follows up with the offensive notion that since Bristol has had an out of wedlock child, she’s fair game. I disagree with him on all counts, but he’s not making light of any sort of rape.
Laura on June 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Laura on June 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM
I am saying Crowder knows betters and chooses to ?Believe? Letterman. What some people are not picking up on is that this is bigger than partisan politics. When Letterman took a whack at Gov Palin he managed to hit a lot of average Americans in the processes. Does he get it? In his last apology he told his audience it wasn’t their fault they misunderstood the joke that it was flawed…nope that isn’t what happened. He stepped in it, and now he is getting it from all directions, not just from Republicans, not just from Conservative Republicans. I think perhaps people like Crowder are looking through the political prism and more is going on. Crowder is also a comedian he isn’t going to hold another comedian to the same standard as non comedians…and a PUMA Cinie even explains why:
What, you thought I was going for the Palin vs. Letterman ten rounder, or the Don’t Ask, I Won’t Tell You No wink and weenie wank domestic partner benefit memorandum that doesn’t exclude gays thing? Pish tosh. For one thing Palin’s gotten all the apology she’s gonna get, the fact that she got one at all is a victory for women, especially PUMAs, in and of itself. There’s not a lot of meat left on that bone, especially if you know like I do that comedians are hard-wired never to apologize for any joke, at any time, to anybody. It de-legitimizes everything they say from that point on. “**** ‘em if they can’t take a joke” is tattooed on the twisted brain of every comic, genius or otherwise, that ever took mike in hand and had the balls or eggs to stand naked and vulnerable in front of strangers for laughs.
http://cinie.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/obamboozlogandizing-astroturf-101/
Dr Evil on June 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM
I am not calling for David Letterman to be fired. I didn’t ask for an apology. I felt if an apology had to be asked for, it wouldn’t be genuine. what purpose would a fake apology serve? I stated many times he wouldn’t be fired. No one is monitoring or targeting David Letterman, like they did Imus. SEE media matters of america, monitored him for 3 years looking for a way to whip up a media frenzy to get him off air….something to do with calling Hillary Clinton Satan daily, out of NYC, she was running for President and at the time the Junior Senator from New York. I guess she didn’t want people nation wide waking up to this declaration by Imus
Imus can really call em SMILE. BUT Letterman won’t be fired because he attacks Conservatives so he is safe. That doesn’t bother anyone, who thinks we should just accept his apology?
In the case of David Letterman I stated “let the free market decide” let people vote with their remotes. (I already don’t watch Letterman so he can’t lose me as a viewer) Then came the call for a boycotts of his sponsors, and I did have to think about this one. Do I want to support companys, that are totally deaf to the people who buy their products…that one is more difficult. Lucky for me I went through the list of Letterman’s sponsors. I am not using those products anyway but someone is, and now Olive Garden pulled their adds, and so did Embassy Suites. Will the Networks finally get the message to stop insulting their audience? Remember the TEA PARTY coverage? Remember how Governor Sarah Palin was treated by the Media during the campaign? Maybe this will get their attention when nothing else does, loss of revenue dollars. The link below updates the current status of those demanding David Letterman be fired.
http://firedavidletterman.com/
Dr Evil on June 18, 2009 at 4:23 PM