Well then shut up.

Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 5:40 PM

You first captain testosterone.

….. because debating it assumes it’s a worthwhile thing to talk about in the first place.

TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 5:36 PM

Well then shut up.

I find you completely bewildering

Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 3:31 PM

Join the club. Regardless, we’re not that far apart.

I just think the whole debate between you and Laura is sort of wrongheaded. He made, essentially, two apologies.

One to Palin et. al, which is her deal to accept or reject. None of our business except to comment on what she might do and what this says about Dave.

Another to everyone he offended, which is really what we’re all talking about when we discuss accepting or rejecting an apology. The one he made Palin doesn’t effect us. My point is, there’s not really a lot to talk about since this is about as genuine as most people’s “outrage” on the issue … which is to say, not very. We weren’t really wronged, and it takes us into grievance kabuki territory by debating it because debating it assumes it’s a worthwhile thing to talk about in the first place.

Letterman pegged.

baldilocks on June 16, 2009 at 11:55 AM

Woodshed.

We’ve got a younger generation to influence here and the media is making the liberals and democrats out to be the cool ones, thereby influencing the up and coming generation in all the ways of their twisted mindset, of what is correct, decent, honest, fair and good.
Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM

splink on June 16, 2009 at 3:30 PM
You just answered the question of why your proposed course of action is not only useless but counterproductive.

You are a duplicitous doofus that got away with doing naughty things in a liberal socialist school system, to wit:

This has long been a battle for the perceptions of the public; where socialists are involved, that’s what it has always come down to.

Your double-cross-talking…. but confirming what I said, is proof that the brain damage has already been done, in far too many of you.

It is an ongoing battle in which lying statists have long had the upper hand because they know what conservatives will and won’t do.

You ARE making my point, about defending the underpinning decency of this country, THANK YOU.

They know that conservatives, at their core, give others the benefit of the doubt, try to believe the best, try to keep the peace, live and let live, and above all do not emulate the slimy tactics of the enemy, even when they know they work.

That’s why we are losing the battle.
The LEFTY STATISTs have long since removed all doubt as to their intentions and we are a bunch of wussified, shriveled and washed up pu$$ies, who don’t think it is worth our time to defend our country’s values, when the going gets tough and we get maligned for standing for them.

The statists know this, so they’ll know exactly how to respond should conservatives try to use their own playbook against them.

No they don’t. In fact, it’s so rare, that if we were to do it, they would back down in embarrassment, that is, if we truly take a stand.
Witness the Obama campaign being set back on their heels the day after the Republican convention, after Sarah’s biting speech!!.

Result: Conservatives are made out to be hypocrites and whatever integrity the public thinks they have is diminished.

Evil only progresses because good people allow it, and being called hypocrites, by hypocrites, is evil!!

Playing by the rules of the statists is a lose/lose for our side. I suspect that’s why conservative leaders – who MUST be tempted to do so – don’t.

We make our own rules and then actually fight.
Ronald Reagan was exhibit “A” of this in fighting back, both on his own terms and the opponents terms, but he was so good and smooth at it, that people largly missed (or forgot) the strategy.

But go ahead. Start or join a nationwide movement to get DL canned and you’ll just make him a martyr in the mind of the masses.
That – and ONLY that – is how it will be spun and presented to them.

Don Imus will have company.

The manufactured outrage is all they’ll hear. CBS will then have “good” reason to stand up for DL against your “rethuglican thought police” (so you will be labeled, and so you will be viewed).

This is not manufactured outrage, you Doofus!! God!!
What kind of country do you want?!

Refer back to the decent underpinnings of this country.

Our comeback will be that Imus was a target of “dethuglocrat thought police” and we demand equal treatment.

You’ll have accomplished nothing…

Dave will be fired and the lefties will learn a lesson that they haven’t learned in years.

moreover, people will be led to believe that Palin is the evil behind it.

This is not about her, this is about the decent underpinnings of this country.

Palin will stay out of it, because she accepted the apology.

::::

In closing, remember the words of the Gipper himself, President Ronald Reagan who said, “If you take away the dream, you take away the power of the spirit.

If you take away the belief in a greater future, you cannot explain America.”–

Exit question: Can you explain America?

No worries. You made some great points today. Don’t let the haters get you down.

DontTaseMeBro on June 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM

*grin* Thank you. They don’t get me down. Usually I’m more worried about the other person blowing a gasket. I’ve not learned the knack of taking the internet that seriously yet.

dieudonne

No worries. You made some great points today. Don’t let the haters get you down.

TheUnrepentantGeek on June 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM

I find you completely bewildering, but not enough to try to figure out what you’re getting at. Sounds like we’re not that far apart on the issue, at least. Well, take care.

We’ve got a younger generation to influence here and the media is making the liberals and democrats out to be the cool ones, thereby influencing the up and coming generation in all the ways of their twisted mindset, of what is correct, decent, honest, fair and good.
Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM

You just answered the question of why your proposed course of action is not only useless but counterproductive.

This has long this been a battle for the perceptions of the public; where socialists are involved, that’s what it has always come down to. It is an ongoing battle in which lying statists have long had the upper hand because they know what conservatives will and won’t do. They know that conservatives, at their core, give others the benefit of the doubt, try to believe the best, try to keep the peace, live and let live, and above all do not emulate the slimy tactics of the enemy, even when they know they work. The statists know this, so they’ll know exactly how to respond should conservatives try to use their own playbook against them.

Result: Conservatives are made out to be hypocrites and whatever integrity the public thinks they have is diminished. Playing by the rules of the statists is a lose/lose for our side. I suspect that’s why conservative leaders – who MUST be tempted to do so – don’t.

But go ahead. Start or join a nationwide movement to get DL canned and you’ll just make him a martyr in the mind of the masses. That – and ONLY that – is how it will be spun and presented to them. The manufactured outrage is all they’ll hear. CBS will then have “good” reason to stand up for DL against your “rethuglican thought police” (so you will be labeled, and so you will be viewed).

You’ll have accomplished nothing…moreover, people will be led to believe that Palin is the evil behind it (which is why I wondered if you might really be one of the anti-Palin trolls herebouts lately…sorry if I was mistaken on that).

I guess you conveniently missed this:

We’ve got a younger generation to influence here and the media is making the liberals and democrats out to be the cool ones, thereby influencing the up and coming generation in all the ways of their twisted mindset, of what is correct, decent, honest, fair and good.
Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM

That’s your answer.

If we are not concerned any further than the inconvenience of our own little time frame and context, then the Republic for which much blood has been shed, prior to us, be damned, ie: Freedom of expression/assembly, the right to retribution, etc.

Not that you care or anything.

Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM

I didn’t conveniently forget to address anything – your statement doesn’t actually address my points as to why I feel that people beyond Palin expecting or desiring apologies doesn’t pass a smell test. Here:

I don’t think there was any doubt as to the target of the jokes – Sarah Palin. Other offended parties were more or less bystanders that happened to be offended — collateral damage as it were.

Custom and tradition stipulates that it is the target of such attacks that gets to accept or refuse apologies. This custom did not arise from a vacuum. The custom prevents both grievance mongers or the irrationally belligerent from steering the ship when we adhere to it. I don’t believe the form should be abandoned here.

He specifically apologized to the Palins and the two girls in particular. He did also address it more widely to anyone else who was offended, but the important thing is that he directed it at those he actually wronged.

And now, in anticipation of Mcguyver’s fury, I will drop and give him 20… hugs!

Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 1:50 PM

See, I know that cuz I read your post.

I just think the other side of it (the omni-apology) is worthless and should be ignored. We’re being as phony by debating it as he was for offering it.

“I apologize to the Palins, and the rest of you can go take a hike.” Yeah, that’d work.

Silly. And entirely unnecessary. As was already noted, just apologize to the Palins and have done with it without the disingenuous CYA.

In the aftermath, I’m not going to give Dave any particular kudos for offering me a meaningless apology and what goes between him and the Palins isn’t my concern. I still think less of him for what he said. Not much less, because it’s not like he had far down to go.

Thus far nobody has responded to those reasons except to say that “they have every right to be offended” or “I’m offended anyway”.If that’s all you have to offer in response you haven’t actually responded to an argument – you’ve just re-iterated that your sensibilities have been offended.

dieudonne on June 16, 2009 at 3:00 PM

I guess you conveniently missed this:

We’ve got a younger generation to influence here and the media is making the liberals and democrats out to be the cool ones, thereby influencing the up and coming generation in all the ways of their twisted mindset, of what is correct, decent, honest, fair and good.
Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM

That’s your answer.

If we are not concerned any further than the inconvenience of our own little time frame and context, then the Republic for which much blood has been shed, prior to us, be damned, ie: Freedom of expression/assembly, the right to retribution, etc.

Not that you care or anything.

Yes – I’m new to online forums. Yes – I know that is unusual these days. Yes – I know I’m making mistakes that other people stopped making 10 years ago. Yes – I’m apologizing to you and Dark Star alone and not anybody else that may have seen it and been offended. *grin*

CBS don’t fire him, let him be cancelled due to low ratings.

What part of “too all those who may have been offended” do you not understand? That is what Dave said: he apologized to Sarah Palin, to Willow & Bristol & to “all those who may have been offended.” Those “all those” people are Laura & me — she & I have every right to not accept his apology.

Dark Star on June 16, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Are you sure you are understanding me?
I’ve already acknowledged that Letterman apologized to Palin and I said that was proper. Why you bring that up again is not clear given how explicitly I have acknpowledged that.
I have also stated that you and Laura may be offended but I don’t feel that such offense is either useful or legitimate. I provided specific reasons to explain why I felt that this sort of grievance mongering is neither useful nor legitimate. Thus far nobody has responded to those reasons except to say that “they have every right to be offended” or “I’m offended anyway”.If that’s all you have to offer in response you haven’t actually responded to an argument – you’ve just re-iterated that your sensibilities have been offended.

who never beats around the bushes.

Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM

What about dead horses?

What part of “too all those who may have been offended” do you not understand? That is what Dave said: he apologized to Sarah Palin, to Willow & Bristol & to “all those who may have been offended.” Those “all those” people are Laura & me — she & I have every right to not accept his apology.

It’s like people can’t even understand plain English anymore.

DontTaseMeBro on June 16, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Your point may very well be that you think Letterman shouldn’t lose his job over that, and that is fair enough. But don’t drag the 1st Amendment in to it like that means anything when it is members of the public, not the government, who want him gone.

Screw you.

Mcguyver on June 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM

SIR YES SIR!!!

Check your grammar.

No one take offense at this, but I’m starting to wonder. Am I alone?

splink on June 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Senior commenter here, since June 2007 (Hotair website started in 2006). Pure unadulterated conservative, who never beats around the bushes. Never have, never will.

I would rather stick my head in the sand, than beat around the bushes.

Before I say something that gets me banned here, let me just say that if it happens, it’s because I have given up hope for this country

Please don’t think I’m being snide here – If you have truly given up hope why would you bother to comment? Even on a blog? If all hope is gone wouldn’t you just be wasting your energy and effort on something you feel to be useless?

Chose your fights carefully and avoid exhaustion. You seem like you’ve put a lot of yourself out there. That strikes me as something likely to exhaust somebody rather than the actions of a man who has decided that everything is hopeless.

What could possibly be worse than a beta male? Besides somebody who wants people to think he’s an alpha.

Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Your counter-condescending description and quip.

Screw you.

If I’m wrong I’m wrong, but could some of them be lib trolls just trying to rattle the cages of the more torch-and-pitchfork inclined among Hotair’s regulars? To what end I can’t fathom…to cherry pick bad quotes (“SEE? See the kind of simian retards posting at HA?”) or just for laughs, maybe. But something ain’t right here.

No one take offense at this, but I’m starting to wonder. Am I alone?

When did conservatives become the party of victimhood and political-correctnessdom?
Palin Steele on June 16, 2009 at 2:19 PM

The real question is: since when did we allow inequality to stand in the liberal social-political arena?

Because that is the day we lost.

We’ve got a younger generation to influence here and the media is making the liberals and democrats out to be the cool ones, thereby influencing the up and coming generation in all the ways of their twisted mindset, of what is correct, decent, honest, fair and good.

If that is what you all collectively want, or allow to happen, then you collectively deserve the government and social environment that you get here.

Before I say something that gets me banned here, let me just say that if it happens, it’s because I have given up hope for this country, that essentially, the majority here do not have the will to defend the decency that is at the foundation and underpinnings of this country.

I am getting real sick and tired of this back and forth, and, if I get banned for something that I say, then it is just as well, because then I can go poke my head in the sand and pretend everything is alright with this world.

Not that you care or anything.

However, If I heard the offense directed at someone else, then, yes, I am offended too, because that body party is a part of me, ie: my sisters, daughters, friends, etc.

My bone of contention here is that you may have been offended but you were not targeted.

I’ve provided specific reasons for letting the targets of insults or snide jokes to accept of refuse apologies rather than other parties and you haven’t actually responded to that. You have floated further evidence that you were offended as well but I never contested that. I did state that people other than targets of insults shouldn’t expect apologies provided specific reasons for that. I also stated specific reasons why people other than targets shouldn’t get a vote in whether apologies are accepted or refused.
I fell the passion of your response but I don’t feel that you have actually addressed the points put out there.

I think a flat apology to Palin and no one else was in order and that any apology lost impact when it was suddenly shared with anybody who didn’t happen to like what he said.

dieudonne on June 16, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Boy you beta male sure sound like a “nappy headed h……..”

I will only apologize to you….

But still, the full complete phrase would get me banned from here, wouldn’t it? And why?

Because that is the way it is with offenses that everybody else heard was directed to a certain party.

In other words, if I didn’t hear the offense (or it wasn’t made public), I cannot take offense to it.

However, If I heard the offense directed at someone else, then, yes, I am offended too, because that body party is a part of me, ie: my sisters, daughters, friends, etc.

So even if one particular body that was offended, accepted the apology, the remaining body does not have to accept the apology.

And, Sarah Palin, true to her nature would stay out of it – if others got Letterman fired – but she wouldn’t stop them, because she understands that they have a right to be offended more and placated only if he is fired.

It worked for Don Imus.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

I can guarantee you, that getting Letterman fired (and there is no doubt that we can do it) will go a LONG way toward gaining equality in the media/liberal politics arena.

The question is, do we want equality bad enough, that we are going to fight for it now, or are we going to put it off until later??
Because this battle will come back, oh yes it will, and when it does, it will be even worse. And then, just like now, we will have the beta species of our society tremble and scamper underneath and around the bushes.

And then when it gets even worse, the betas will shrink even more. It’s always been that way. When it get’s tough, the tough get going and the weaklings scamper.

I just wish the betas would leave quietly and/or bring the fighters some fresh water.

*cracks whip*

Funny, nobody was calling me a beta male when I said that until he apologized, I’d just assume he thinks raping little girls is funny.

Jim Treacher on June 16, 2009 at 1:51 PM

That’s because that was far worse than a beta male. We just didn’t want to embarrass you.

Equating David Letterman making a joke about Palins to some random stranger saying something offensive about your family is a poor comparison.

Letterman is a comedian (capable of bad jokes) and Palin is a public figure. He shouldn’t have joked about the daughters (either one)…and was rightfully bashed for it.

But to continue to be angry about it past his apology is taking things too far….it’s basically making a mountain out of a molehill.

I remember the days when conservatives would laugh at liberals for being so over-sensitive and outraged at any perceived offense…and now they’re falling into the same victim behavior that they used to deride.

He doesn’t have to explicitly exclude others – it is enough that he names the Palin family and is contrite in his apology. That would work to.

Anybody that thinks they are personally owed an apology (even though they were not the target) can then make their own arrangements with Mr. Letterman.