Max Boot: Hey, Let’s Throw Liz Cheney – er, Mark Levin and Ann Coulter – Under the Bus!
posted at 3:20 pm on May 26, 2009 by CK MacLeod
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Continuing an apparent bid to become the David Brooks of the foreign policy establishment – moderate bending over backwards to defend Barack Obama and attack conservatives – prominent defense intellectual Max Boot has used a post at Commentary Magazine‘s Contentions blog to chastise Liz Cheney for having, as he puts it, “stepped over the line” in criticism of President Obama.
In a tone of sorrow and schoolmarmish condescension – that is, “with no joy,” though he’s sure it was “a one-time slip for her” – Boot notes a statement made by Ms. Cheney during an apparently lively public debate, quoted in the New York Times as follows:
Republicans have led the nation to greatness when they’ve been true to fundamental principles, such as a strong national defense, limited government and low taxes. None of those are things President Obama believes in.
Boot’s response:
…[I]t’s not fair to claim the [P]resident doesn’t believe in a “strong national defense.” That’s questioning his motives and suggesting that he will not carry out his oath of office to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Agree with him or not, you need to grant that Obama believes the policies he is pursuing are designed to enhance, not weaken, our national security. Otherwise civilized democratic discourse becomes impossible. Republicans rightly abhorred such invective against President Bush (”Bush lied, they died,” etc.). They should not make the mistake of mirroring moveon.org-style rhetorical excesses now that a president of the other party is in power.
Let’s leave aside the question of whether Cheney’s remarks deserve to be associated with “invective,” and, if they do, whether “such invective,” abhorrent or not, has its uses. Let’s even set aside the question, discussed at length in the Contentions comments, whether Ms. Cheney’s statement was “appropriate shorthand” that merely asserted the traditional Republican platform while declining to accept Obamaist definitions.
The question remains: What purpose is served by nitpicking Liz Cheney’s “one-time slip”? In addition, if Boot is merely trying to be helpful rather than set himself apart from, and above, the crazies – i.e., the Right – why does he feel the need to raise his rhetorical fire further, finishing the post by linking to and implicitly joining a currently circulating attack on popular radio host, author, and Reagan Administration veteran Mark Levin?
This last item has been discussed in the HotAir headlines twice, but, just in case you missed it, last week Levin’s enhanced verbal interrogation of a liberal caller caused fits of the reciprocating vapors among three center-right civility-mongers. Conor Friedersdorf, Rod Dreher, and David Frum took turns wringing their hands and fluttering their dowager’s fans over Levin’s “petulant,” “indecent,” “disgusting,” “horrible,” etc., performance. Additional blogifications eventually drew in Levin’s fans and even Levin himself. What neither Friedersdorf, nor Dreher, nor Frum, nor Boot notes, or, in the latter three cases neither was able to note nor thought to consider, was the caller herself: You need to hear the actual exchange to understand the condescending, smugly self-satisfied tone that set off the often-agitated (because self-consciously agitational) Levin.
You can play the audio file, and exercise your right to your own sensibility, but, when, like Boot and the other members of the moderate civility service, you go searching for pretexts to attack and peremptorily dismiss leading voices on the right, then why should we even consider you a “moderate” or “centrist”? You’re not occupying a middle position, judiciously weighing views on either side. You may think you’re resting on whatever conservative credentials you’ve amassed over a long career, but to the extent the presumption is valid, it merely makes your one-sided attacks all the more divisive.
I don’t think Max Boot really wants to push Liz Cheney into the path of a large-size vehicular conveyance. In his original post he spends almost as much time flattering her personally as he spends associating her with moveon.org, they of the full page newspaper ads accusing General Petraeus of treason. Yet it’s further indicative of the problem Boot and others like him have that his follow-up replies to commenters and fellow Contentions blogger Jennifer Rubin were devoted to casting Barack Obama’s foreign and defense policy in as positive a light as possible. It turns out that he doesn’t really just disagree with Liz Cheney’s tone or word choice after all: He disagrees with her point. In short, he’s effectively an Obama supporter – and in this context a hostile witness.
Now, in the latest follow-up to the original post, Boot finally just throws up his hands and pleads for understanding – and in the process finds another popular conservative to attack:
I don’t think my criticism of Liz was overly harsh. I certainly never intuited bad faith to her. As I pointed out, this is an aberration for a “tough but principled debater.” In fact I took her to task precisely because I have considerable respect for her. I wouldn’t waste my time criticizing a clown like, say, Ann Coulter, because, unlike Liz, she is not a serious person.
So says the guardian of civility, “wasting his time” on someone whom he doesn’t consider worthy of discussion, summarily judging and dismissing her.
The original criticism of Liz Cheney wasn’t “overly harsh”: It was overly sanctimonious, masking substantial disagreement within a cloud of pettifoggery. It may be that Boot just isn’t ready to confess, to himself as well as to the rest of us, that he’s in the process of leaving his friends on the neoconservative right for greener pundit pastures. If so, then it may not be long before, with the greatest civility, he declares all of us clowns and fellow travelers of clowns, accuses us of trying to purge him from the circus, and announces his new venue at some pseudo-conservative site, like newmajority.com, that directs ridicule and calumny at all those who criticize Barack Obama and Obamaism too harshly – or too effectively.
(UPDATE: The Other McCain has updated the Levin kerfuffle further in a current Green Room post.)
(UPDATE II: Link to audio youtube fixed.)










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Before launching on Liz Cheney, maybe Max should have asked her what she meant by saying Obama doesn’t believe in a “strong national defense.”
To this conservative, the phrase means
“a defense based upon the creation and maintenance of a superior military adequate to win any battle an aggressor may launch, one equipped with the best technology we can obtain to exploit the weaknesses of any enemy and defeat them – a military the existence of which, given its obvious quality, skill and ability, would dissuade rational actors on the world stage from challenging it.”
It seems to me Democrats – including Obama – have not favored such a defense for decades. Rather, they believe our nation is defended by reducing its profile, by attending to the things which create grievance against the United States.
While I don’t doubt (at present) Obama believes in defending our nation, I believe it entirely accurate to say he doesn’t believe in doing it through the means Republicans believe appropriate, to wit, “a strong national defense.”
BD57 on May 26, 2009 at 3:52 PM
In his world slamming ann coulter is a freebie. Nobody will challenge him on it so he blogs something about cheney/Levin/coulter and is shocked, absoultely shocked to find people love those guys. And they can actually read and write
My take on Frum,Brooks and others is they have lived very sequestered lives. What they truly need to do is make some new friends in there personal life.
As rush said these people are writing for a liberal audience.
I leave this max boot guy this quote from ’300′
(2012 big o is going down thanks to rush/levin/coulter and HA)
kangjie on May 26, 2009 at 3:55 PM
The commenters there including me gave Max a very hard time.
I can’t stand these well-read pansies who go all dithery when somebody lays a feather on Obama.
promachus on May 26, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Ann Coulter is not the clown.
The real clown is in the White House.
TexasJew on May 26, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Cognitive dissonance. They know they made a huge mistake and now will do anything, say anything, in order to keep from facing the reality that they are idiots.
Blake on May 26, 2009 at 5:10 PM
I couldn’t get the link to the ‘original exchange’ to work. Is it bad or is it just me and my old computer?
TruthToBeTold on May 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Brooks, Frum, Parker, C. Buckley, Dreher, and now Boot. (Actually IMO Brooks and Dreher were never on our side to begin with)
They are in no-man’s-land, nobody likes them. The liberals are just using them, and the we won’t take them back in the fold without some major mea culpas(not holding my breath) And most people don’t even know who they are.
thebrokenrattle on May 26, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Except for the Don’t Blame Me Tour can anyone point out where the foreign policy of the two presidents are different?
Cindy Munford on May 26, 2009 at 5:14 PM
hey, how is this cultural revolution inside the GOP going? you’re more efficient than mao.
sesquipedalian on May 26, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Very well thank you , Cheneys approval rating is rising.
the_nile on May 26, 2009 at 5:22 PM
These pansies are getting on my nerves.
baldilocks on May 26, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Liz Cheney is awesome. True grit. Ferocious intelligence. I like Palin just fine, but Liz is an up and comer.
The cultural revolution inside the GOP (re: media pitting moderates against the principled conservatives) means little to nothing compared to the collective anger of the taxpayer revolts. Nearly 70 percent of California spit on your liberal agenda. I would be scared if I were you.
John the Libertarian on May 26, 2009 at 5:30 PM
Sure, Bush took it to the terrorists and Obama wants constitutional rights for them even though they HAVE no Geneva convention rights, they are enemy combatants having no countries uniform and were caught OUTSIDE the US.
dthorny on May 26, 2009 at 5:39 PM
The comments to both articles were excellent reading. I strongly urge Mr. Allahpundit read them.
Blake on May 26, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Thanks to Bill Clinton for selling China the missile technology for campaign cash. Not that China would sell that technology to….say….North Korea? Naaaaaaaaaahhhh.
Obama: “Gee willickers, someone needs to do something about that North Korean nu-cu-lar weapon. Hey Rahm, can I take a mulligan on this hole?”
Thus ends the lesson on democrats and national defense.
dthorny on May 26, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Gutting missile defense is an example of what, Maxine?
corona on May 26, 2009 at 6:09 PM
another 404 – actual exchange
corona on May 26, 2009 at 6:11 PM
The only spending barry has cut is defense, he wants to free terrorists into our society that their own countries either won’t take or will put to death because they are so nasty, has vowed to kill missile defense while psychopath dictators are developing ballistic missiles and keeps apologizing to everyone for all the perceived horrible things the US has done. Yet we, as hillary put it,must suspend disbelief, and assume barry wants to protect America. Right.
peacenprosperity on May 26, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Heh.
baldilocks on May 26, 2009 at 6:18 PM
Buy, this one got you going, CKM. As you know, I agree with you: Max Boot and Liz Cheney apparently define “believing in a strong national defense” differently, and criticizing Obama on the basis of her definition is hardly out of bounds for Liz Cheney. it’s neither rude nor unserious.
In fact, it comes across as rather inexplicable of Max, to suggest that we are bound by some obligation to interpret Obama the way Obama wants the right to interpret his actions and comments.
Sorry, when Obama cuts funding to missile defense programs, and offers to negotiate away the missile defense sites Bush worked for so long to get agreement to in Poland and the Czech Republic, I am under no obligation to interpret those as measures that will enhance our national security — whatever Obama may think. I am, rather, entitled to conclude that Obama is jeopardizing our national security, by those and other measures. And so is Liz Cheney.
J.E. Dyer on May 26, 2009 at 6:31 PM
Does the following make you think that Obama believes in a “strong national defense”?
Barack Obama, “As president, I will end misguided defense policies and stand with Caucus for Priorities in fighting special interests in Washington.
First, I’ll stop spending $9 billion a month in Iraq. I’m the only major candidate who opposed this war from the beginning — and as president, I will end it.
Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems, and I will institute an independent defense priorities board to ensure that the Quadrennial Defense Review is not used to justify unnecessary spending.
Third, I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons.
To seek that goal, I will not develop new nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material, and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals.
You know where I stand.”
OxyCon on May 26, 2009 at 6:35 PM
careful, revolutionaries: the mensheviks are everywhere!
sesquipedalian on May 26, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Link fixed, sports fans. Sorry about that. Seeyalater gotta run.
CK MacLeod on May 26, 2009 at 6:42 PM
J.E. , is our national security dependent on America being the SuperAwesome World Police?
Because, truthfully, we relly can’t afford it anymore.
Highlander! This is so purrfect!
And….It’s all about the respect. The powerless conservatives are the equivalent of powerless black ghetto-culture warriors. The black ghetto-culture warriors were powerless and disrespected, like the GOP. Now Rush and Beck and Levin are anger-whiggas. But its all frontin’. All they got is bourgie blow….not a genuine thug among them.
Hehe, and they will nevah be cooltown, like Obama.
strangelet on May 26, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Take your meds!
Blake on May 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM
strangelet, that comment that impresses you so much reads like boilerplate to me, likely written by someone who doesn’t listen to very much conservative talk radio, though I’ll reserve judgment until and unless you can provide a link or at least a characterization of whoever “Bo” is, presuming that BO’s Bo isn’t blogging already.
BTW, the criticism of gangster rap applied to conservative talk radio applies equally well or in my view rather better to people who struggle to satiate their spiritual, political, or economic hunger by chewing their words in whatever other in-group slang. Think about it, “grrrl.”
CK MacLeod on May 26, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Give ‘im the boot.
Randy
williars on May 26, 2009 at 8:05 PM
J.E. Dyer on May 26, 2009 at 6:31 PM
JED, I was about ready to drop this one, maybe file it for future reference or occasion. I’m as tired as anyone of the moderate attack on the right, which seemingly has never let up since September 2008 at least. The continued discussion at Contentions, including the opening of new fronts in Mr. Boot’s offensive, made me feel a sense of blogger’s obligation about going “on the record.”
I fear brain-melt if I try for the umpteenth time to explain why I find the mode of attack favored by the wishy-washiests so annoying and counterproductive. Instead, I’ll suggest that I hope someone or -ones like you can at some point put together a more or less comprehensive version of the conservative critique of Obamaist defense and foreign policy, leaving room, naturally, to take ongoing developments into account.
CK MacLeod on May 26, 2009 at 8:20 PM
promachus on May 26, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Who are you when you’re Contending, if you don’t mind my asking? I don’t recall seeing a “promachus” over there.
CK MacLeod on May 26, 2009 at 8:26 PM
First–who the heck is Max Boot?Some relation of Max Headroom?
As far as him(?) throwing Liz under the bus, Liz would shove the bus up Max’s butt.
DDT on May 26, 2009 at 8:33 PM
“Stepped over the line”? Since when do we have that in a free country?
And Boot says that this -
was the “stepping over the line?
Strong national defense might be slightly debatable, although not very much so, but limited government and low taxes are certainly not.
I don’t need to grant any such thing you farken blathering arse and neither does any free American.
Is this Max Boot some kind of Stalinist or just a total moronic arse?
According to Wikipedia he was born in Moscow, and not Moscow, Idaho either. If you want to live in a criticism Verboten country like that, Max Boot, then take your sorry arse back to Russia.
BTW Max, if it wouldn’t be too much trouble on your way back to Russia could you take Arnold Schwarzenegger with you? You could just drop him off someplace over Austria.
MB4 on May 26, 2009 at 9:03 PM
I had a higher opinion of Max Boot before his attack on Liz Cheney. I think he is very wrong and that he is saying such things because he has calculated (incorrectly) that to be a player in the future, being favorable to Obama will be essential.
What is going to happen instead is that Obama’s penchant for appeasement and inexperience and lack of knowledge concerning foreign policy, military matters and national security will lead to disaster in three years or so. Max Boot’s words will then make him look like somone whose advice should be ignored.
At a New York City Bar Association committee meeting after the election, Boot referred to his having drunk the koolaid in suppporting the Republican ticket. I strongly disagreed with him and said that Obama’s appeasement policices and inexperience and lack of knowledge concerning foreign policy, military matters and national security would mean decisions that over the course of the next three years or so will lead to very bad situations.
But hey, I was but a seemingly out of place Republican in a New York City Bar function who thought (and still thinks) that if you support Obama foreign policy that you have been drinking koolaid.
Phil Byler on May 26, 2009 at 9:22 PM
You know I get a big kick out of all these clowns who pushed for a war in Iraq to begin with: Boot, Perle, Frum, the execrable Kenny “Cakewalk” Adelman, even that idiot Andrew Sullivan (go back to 2002-2003 if you want an example of a guy talking up the war in unbelievably flowery language, he creeped me out even back then). All these effete pukes were all gung-ho back in 2002-2003. Rock and roll, baby.
http://harpers.org/archive/2006/11/sb-ken-adelman-1164050030
Now, after their big idea has resulted in the deaths of 4000 brave Americans, with many more wounded (many of whom are the same type of people they now want to throw under the bus, in the name of “saving the Republican Party”), spending untold billions, and essentially destroying the Republican Party (at least, temporarily), now all these guys go running to the side of Papa Obama.
Hey Frum, Boot, Perle, Adelman, Sullivan, et. al., it wasn’t Social Conservatives, George Bush, Dick Cheney, a weak presence on Facebook, or any other stupid reason you come up with, that brought on the 2006 and 2008 election debacles. It was the War in Iraq that you all pushed for. Look at the polling data. How about you all man up (for once in your lives)Frum, Adelman, Boot, etc. and admit it.
No, instead lets spend our time ripping Liz Cheney, a sensible, erudite, and loyal Republican. Yeah, good idea jackasses. Actually that’s exactly the sort of wussy thing you and your pals would do, Boot.
Beneath contempt, the lot of them.
I supported the war all along, right from the beginning (against my better instincts, I might add). In part, because I bought into some of what these guys were selling. I guess I still do support the war. I have to, now. But these jerkoffs are starting to turn me into a Buchananista. I can’t say I wasn’t warned.
Dreadnought on May 26, 2009 at 10:30 PM
So there I was, listening to a few of the major “architects” of the war in Iraq — Paul Wolfowitz, formerly No. 2 man at the Pentagon under Donald Rumsfeld; Douglas J. Feith, formerly No. 3 man at the Pentagon under Rumsfeld; Peter Rodman, another former senior adviser to Rumsfeld; and Dan Senor, former senior adviser to Paul Bremer of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA). They had assembled at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C., for a discussion of Feith’s new book, “War and Decision: Inside the Pentagon at the Dawn of
the War on Terrorism,” but what they were drawn to discuss was what went wrong with the war in Iraq.
The classic clueless moment, however, came later in answer to a question from the floor: Did the administration ever tell Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia to bar combatants from crossing their borders into Iraq — or else? And if not (“not” is clearly the answer since these borders have been Grand Central Station for jihadists), why not? Wolfowitz owned up that the United States had said something or other at some point, but, overall, the consensus on the dais came down to a big, shrugging non-answer.
I got one of those answers myself, at least from Feith. I asked: What did these gentlemen think the United States would ultimately get out of Iraq in exchange for our massive investment of blood and treasure? And had they learned anything to make them doubt the president’s often-repeated promise that Iraq would become an “ally” in the “war on terror”? Shrug. Not interested in answering.
Looking back, there was a narrowness in the scope of discussion that time constraints alone can’t explain. It was as though the men believed every clue to heartbreak in Iraq could be found in the chain of events as they had already occurred — in papers already generated, debates already argued, rounds of infighting already waged, decisions already executed. In other words, to these men, there would seem to be nothing new worth pondering — like, for instance, the havoc Islamic ways wreak on Western-style nation-building.
Shrug.
MB4 on May 26, 2009 at 11:08 PM
That was an interesting article.
You know, as I said in my earlier post I supported the war from the beginning, partly because I believed Sadaam was worth removing (still do), but also partly because I bought into the idea that the Iraqis wanted to be liberated, etc.
But I said to someone at the time “it’s easy to get in, hard to get out”, meaning I knew the US military would have little problem blowing away the Iraq military in the conventional war (the first Gulf War and the way US airpower alone was able to cow the Serbs, a much tougher crew than the Iraqis) convinced me of that. But I suspected that the occupation would be much tougher. Just the fact that you’ve got two groups of people who have been at each others throats for a thousand years…you can’t just heal those wounds in a couple of weeks.
I’m not so sure it has as much to do with Islam as Ms. West suggests, however. I remember reading that at the height of the “Troubles” in Northern Ireland the Provisional IRA had only about 2000 or so active members. And I know from talking to people from Northern Ireland that the Provos only had support from part of the Catholic population in Ulster, who were a minority to begin with.
Yet with that small force and the support of a rather small minority of the population, the Provsitional IRA was able to kill over 700 British soldiers (in a 30 year period, granted, but still).
You would think someone like Ken “Cakewalk” Adelman would know this, and maybe would have forseen some parallels.
Anyone want to guess how many active Iraqi insurgents there have been, and what support they have in the population? A lot more than the IRA on both counts, I’m willing to guess. It speaks very well of the bravery and smarts of the US Military that they’ve done as well as they have, considering what they’re up against, Islamic or not.
I don’t know what to say about Feith or Wolfowitz other than, whatever their faults, they at least seem at bit more honest than the likes of Adelman, Boot, Frum, Perle, etc. Wolfowitz, in particular, never creeped me out the way the others mostly do. At least they haven’t jumped ship and cozyed up to Obama or tried to steer the Republican Party left, that I am aware. I suspect that the two facts are related.
Dreadnought on May 27, 2009 at 12:30 AM
That puts the problem for conservatives attempting to cope with “Bush 3rd Term” policy in a nutshell: Strategy and tactics that made sense, or seemed to make sense, or were close enough to sensible to be supported against the other apparent options in 2002-3 became harder to support all through 2003-8, inevitably forcing us to re-examine our earlier assumptions. Furthermore, particular tactics, objectives, and priorities that make sense under one strategic posture may be highly problematic, where not dangerous nonsense, under a different one, and under different leadership.
On that note, I’m not by any means ready to give up on Gen Petraeus, Gen Odierno, or the whole group of people inside and outside the military who designed, implemented, supported, and defended the Iraqi surge, but that doesn’t make them or even less their current missions un-criticizeable.
CK MacLeod on May 27, 2009 at 12:41 AM
Two comments about the last couple of posts:
1. Paul Wolfowitz is a good man.
2. We now have, courtesy the surge and the Iraqi people’s rejection of murderous jihadists, a working secular democratic government in Iraq. Big improvement on Saddam, don’t you think?
Phil Byler on May 27, 2009 at 5:28 AM
hahahahahahahahaha
strangelet on May 27, 2009 at 8:40 AM
AFAIK, Petraeus is absolutely loyal to the new CinC, and I have never seen a nanoparticle of evidence that he is a registered republican.
Magical thinking again, Highlander?
strangelet on May 27, 2009 at 8:42 AM
Don’t have any idea what you’re referring to, strangelet, in terms of “magical thinking,” or where anyone suggested that Petraeus was anything but loyal. He is known to be a registered Republican in his home state of New York. I’m sure with your tremendous internet skills, you should be able to dig up the evidence, though I’m not sure what it’s supposed to demonstrate.
Arguing the wisdom and results of the Iraqi intervention is a complex subject, requiring one amont other things to assess the real world alternatives based on what was known and just as crucially what was unknown at the time the key decisions were made. I don’t see how such a discussion would bear very directly on the main topics of this thread.
CK MacLeod on May 27, 2009 at 10:03 AM
I think Max Boot, Jim Manzi, and Chris Caldwell are all the sanity you have left at their various publications.
I vividly remember Petraeus rebuking McCain/Palin during the campaign for wanting him to take sides.
strangelet on May 27, 2009 at 10:11 AM
What? I followed the campaign very closely, and recall Petraeus scrupulously avoiding – as one would expect of a general officer – any involvement in the campaign. Nor would McCain have expected anything else from him.
At most, there may have been one or another point of discussion regarding military-political strategy, and some non-partisan response by Petraeus taken by the usual netroots-shouters as a “rebuke,” taken by grown-ups as par for the course. I have some vague recollection of something like that – an event of near zero political significance and quickly forgotten by most observers. If you can link to a news item on the incident you have in mind, we can take a look at it I guess.
I wonder if you need to look up the word “rebuke” or look into what is causing such “vivid” hallucinations. I suspect that Petraeus himself would be deeply dismayed by the notion that he had been seen to “rebuke” either nominee.
CK MacLeod on May 27, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Hmmm….I will have to research it….I think….the moment in question had to do with the “Victory in Iraq” meme McCain/Palin were pushing, and possibly Palin getting McKiernan’s name wrong and proposing a surge technique for Af-Pak.
I’ll look it up and get back to you on that.
hahahahaha!
strangelet on May 27, 2009 at 11:52 AM
promises, promises
CK MacLeod on May 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM