In Defense of Marriage

posted at 1:33 pm on May 11, 2009 by

Recent events have made the legal recognition of gay marriage a hot topic. Social conservatives are fighting a battle to preserve the traditional definition of marriage, and this battle is entering a crucial stage. The other side of the argument has enormous influence in the popular culture, to the point where one of its most outspoken activists can be invited to judge the Miss USA contest, and use his position to score political points. Social conservatives are presumed guilty of bigotry for daring to speak in favor of traditional marriage – as the Carrie Prejean affair demonstrates, they are treated more like defendants at a trial, than participants in a debate.

Whatever the motivations of the outspoken leadership of the gay marriage movement, there’s no question that many average gay Americans want the official sanction of marriage for the best of reasons: to honor passionate commitment and lifelong relationships. It’s essential for those who defend the traditional definition of marriage to make the case that marriage is worth preserving, when the consequences of winning the debate include disappointment, humiliation, and anger among gay people who wish to be married.

Marriage between men and women is a tradition that stretches back for centuries, into the history of the European nations that colonized America, and the history of virtually every other civilization around the world. Marriage is vastly older than various other features of modern life that we asked to accept as eternal and unchangeable, such as progressive taxation, or federal control of public education. It was not invented in the Fifties by stodgy old television producers, and we are not designing our nation’s law or culture from scratch, arbitrarily deciding to pencil in a mean-spirited homosexual exclusion to a newly minted “right.” We should be clear that proponents of the traditional definition of marriage are being asked to redefine something that has been part of human law and custom for most of our recorded history. The longevity of marriage, and its presence in almost every human culture, speak in its favor. Modern Americans often embrace the delusion they are the first generation to be capable of changing their ways, but our forefathers down through the centuries were perfectly capable of redefining marriage, if they had wanted to. The definition of marriage as a bond between a man and a woman has endured through the development of Western culture, under the influence of various religions, because it’s important.

Marriage is a basic building block for society. The marital bond creates families, and brings families together, creating an atmosphere of trust and loyalty that was crucial to the formation of ancient societies… but is also important to a technologically advanced democracy. The line of authority begins with man and wife, and builds into families, extended clans, communities, and nations. Men and women raised by parents who honor their lifelong pledge of devotion are better able to enter a democracy as strong, independent citizens who can fulfill their civic duties and use their voting power wisely. It’s common sense to recognize the advantage of having an extended family you can fall back on for support in tough times, and which can build wealth that benefits all of the family members. Simply owning a family home, which has been largely paid for by the older generation, is an enormous asset. People who can turn to their families when they hit rock bottom are less likely to demand welfare from the government. The pathologies of crime and welfare dependency are strongly linked to the explosion of children raised by single parents, as the no-fault divorce culture has weakened marriage. Families also provide emotional support that no amount of sterile government spending can ever duplicate. We never should have accepted the Great Society notion that raising children was primarily an exercise in accounting, treating them as line items on Uncle Sam’s budget sheet.

Solid marriages, and the families they produce, also contribute a powerful resource that has become scarce in modern America: honor, and by extension shame. Families help to build a sense of honor by holding children accountable for what they do to each other, and making them aware that they carry the family’s honor with them when they move into the outside world. People who are mindful that their actions reflect upon the reputation of a mighty family tree are more likely to conduct themselves honorably, and more likely to feel the sting of shame if their actions don’t measure up to the family’s standards. It’s sad that so many of us have to go through life without being able to look behind us and see the ghosts of our parents, and their parents before them, holding hands and standing united in their pride at our achievements… and their disappointment when we behave in a way that dishonors their memory. We live in a world that our great-grandparents could scarcely have imagined, and we should be grateful that they were able to build that world for us, and aware of our responsibility to build the world our great-grandchildren will inherit. A nation that runs up an incalculable national debt is not a nation that is paying enough attention to the needs of its great-grandchildren.

Those who were raised in a single-parent household, as I was, might object that it’s possible to develop these virtues without both a mother and father to teach them. This is very true, but it’s far easier to raise children and give them the strength of an extended family with an intact marriage. I doubt most single parents reading this would deny their jobs would be easier if the mother or father of the children was still around to help, and took their responsibilities to their spouse and children seriously. When you’re talking about the evolution of a civilization – the interwoven life stories of three hundred million people – it pays for society to revere and encourage the traditions which are most likely to produce free-thinking, industrious, lawful citizens.

If raising children within an intact marriage makes it, say, 10% less likely those children will be criminals, you can keep thousands of criminals from haunting the streets by encouraging intact marriages… and that 10% hypothetical figure is probably a very low estimate of the beneficial effect of intact families, among the demographics most prone to violent crime, drug abuse, and long-term welfare dependency. Our cultural elite has constructed a society in which they can indulge their libertine instincts, and preen themselves over how marvelously open-minded they are, while passing the cost along to people whose lives became intolerable when they became a little bit harder. European states have collapsed into tired old socialist nursing homes by failing to produce enough children to keep their cultures and economies vibrant. In Europe, a half-dozen elderly grandparents have only one grandchild to share between them. In America, we have a vast population of children who never meet their grandparents.

There are those who say that assigning an exalted, officially sanctioned status to married couples implies that single people are somehow less valuable to society. Some argue that child-rearing isn’t a sufficient argument in favor of marriage, because we don’t frown on married couples who never get around to having children, or are incapable of having them. This misses the larger point that a healthy America has plenty of room for spinsters, playboys, and career-minded power couples who can’t fit children into their lifestyle… but we can’t all be like that. The next generation will come from families who make the incredible sacrifices necessary to have two, three, or even more children, when many of their friends look at the bill for a stay in the maternity ward, and think about what a cool plasma TV and home-theater system they could have bought with that money. Love and faith – in the future, and in each other – make it possible for a man and his wife to make those return trips to the maternity ward, without which the future would be empty and poor.

The advocate of redefining marriage will say that same-sex marriages can provide the kind of solid family environment that is so desirable, and modern technology can make it possible for them to have children. This ignores the value marriage has for the men and women who are joined by it, even if they never raise a family. Too much of our social evolution since the Sixties has been distorted by the ridiculous article of faith among the elites that men and women are interchangeable. Men and women are different, and they need each other. Marriage civilizes and focuses men, who have traded their clubs and spears for footballs and videogame controllers, but remain the same competitive and predatory creatures they have always been. It places their strength at the service of the women they love. For a man who don’t choose to serve in the military, marriage is his greatest opportunity to swear absolute loyalty to someone in this world besides himself. When a man kneels before his love and asks for her hand, he is not kneeling because he’s weak… he kneels because he’s strong, and he’s ready to share that strength with his wife. It’s a promise that is not easy to make, or easy to keep. Four decades of increasing crime, declining ambition, and deepening poverty for the most unfortunate among us should have taught us beyond question how much husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, need each other. The freakish ideologues who sold American women idiocy like “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” owe several generations of women, and their children, a groveling apology.

Some advocates of redefining marriage would laugh at this description of marriage, and call it an ideal too many couples fail to achieve. They might say the epidemic of divorce since the Seventies proves that traditional marriage has become a tattered and threadbare flag that is not worth defending. On the contrary, the divorce explosion proves the necessity of officially respecting and encouraging the difficult commitment of marriage. We weakened marriage by redefining it as a temporary business arrangement between men and women, to be dissolved without hesitation or remorse at any time. We would weaken it further by redefining it as a temporary business arrangement between anyone. We aren’t doing ourselves any favors by abandoning ideals that are difficult to achieve. We haven’t been helping our children by discouraging them from reaching for the future together… by telling them “forever” is a silly word, or “always” is merely the opening bid in an extended negotiation. We’ve done a poor job of setting a good example for the younger generation, and now we’re trying to let ourselves off the hook by saying those marriage vows were unreasonably difficult to begin with. Marriage is valuable because it’s difficult.

The libertarian objection to official recognition of marriage is that people should not look to their government to legitimize their moral preferences. This has always been a hollow argument, because the laws of a nation inevitably reflect the morality of its citizens. It becomes a ridiculous argument in the face of the gigantic, activist, sanctimonious government and ruling class of modern America. If the government is going to become agnostic on the question of sanctioning marriage, it will be the first time in decades it has decided to become agnostic on anything. Politicians who tell us we have a moral imperative to drive smaller cars should not be allowed to fall silent when asked if we have an even greater imperative to honor our marriage vows.

The idea that defenders of marriage are pleading for state and federal laws to “legitimize” their beliefs has the situation exactly backward: the citizens of a nation have a right to expect the laws of their government to reflect their beliefs. The advocates of redefining marriage understand this instinctively. The point of their crusade is not to gain the “right” to declare themselves to be married… they can do that now, and many of them do. The point is to change the legal structure of the country, to express a revised, manufactured consensus that the sex of the people involved in a marriage doesn’t matter, and eventually this would be further revised to say that the number of people involved doesn’t matter either. The point of obtaining legal sanction for gay marriage is not to change how gay people feel about it.

Ordinary people, struggling to prosper and raise their children in a complex world, are tired of being told that everything they revere is subject to deconstruction and re-interpretation. They are tired of hearing that every standard they hold is an insult to those who don’t meet it, and every belief is an insult to those who don’t share it. They’re weary of being used as test subjects in grand social experiments. To maintain a common culture, we must have ideals with intrinsic meaning, just as some of the words in any language must have a clear and unambiguous meaning. Government is not something imposed from above on its citizens, in a democracy – its authority flows upward from them. They have a right to expect that government to honor the vows and commitments they have made between themselves, dating back to centuries before the United States of America existed. They have a right to live in a society that doesn’t expend its energies trying to condition them to forget something they have understood since the first time they saw their fathers and mothers standing together and smiling down at them in the cradle… and which they have respected since the first time they looked through a family photo album and dreamed about who would be standing beside them, when the picture of their own family was added. Redefining marriage doesn’t make lasting unions between men and women less important. It just makes them harder to find.

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

Bullseye, Doctor.

Mew

acat on May 11, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Well done sir. I have a take on the push to legitimize gay marriages that merely follows the money. The former 17 year old kid that was in the affair with Gerry Studds is a leading advocate of gay marriage and one of his main reasons is he wants to be able to receive Mr. Studd’s generous congressional retirement benefits. My cousin will pretty much say the same thing in that he wants his college professor partner to be able to cover his health benefits through his state sponsered insurance.

Our local Hearst/Soros sponsored liberal bloggers in the Houston Chronicle ran the meme that no one should be opposed to dropping charities from tax exemptions because if you need a tax break to give to charity then you aren’t giving for the right reasons. This seems to be the exact same thing but it gets no play at all. There will be tremendous financial impacts that are not being discussed.

DanMan on May 11, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Mega dittos Dr. Zero!

This is also about the rights of the majority. The majority of Americans do not desire gay marriage to be made legal. The same can be said of Americans not wanting their Courts to be activists, but adhere to the laws and the Constitution.

The tea parties were created by groups of regular Americans tired of their voices not being heard by politicians, and those that are affiliated with the government in any capacity. To disregard the voices who object to traditions long held, and long revered is a mistake by the Left. One could look at the movie industry and see evidence that a more traditional movie is more well received by the public overall than those that tear down the family unit or the military.

In trashing traditions, the Left is only repeating what failed time and time again in history. Many a great nation has fallen, or certainly been weakened, because of the abandoning of traditional moral views, or traditions period. The once great British nation is now a prime example of what happens when traditions are trashed while adapting new traditions like sharia law.

freeus on May 11, 2009 at 3:06 PM

You say that gay marriage weakens marriage for everybody else, but how is that going to work, exactly? Legally, husbands and wives will have the exact same rights and obligations as before, so that’s not any different. It won’t change how husbands and wives feel about each other. It won’t make it any harder to raise children. Nothing will change about the way marriage functions between a man and a woman.

Legalizing gay marriage improves the lives of homosexuals and does no harm to heterosexuals. It’s the right thing to do.

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 3:24 PM

Legalizing gay marriage improves the lives of homosexuals and does no harm to heterosexuals. It’s the right thing to do.

It does nothing of the sort. There is no civil or legal right that can’t be afforded to gay couples through legislation a different way than redefining marriage. And they can surely find a religion that accepts their union and in that religion’s eyes recognizes them as married.

However, if marriage is made legal between other than one man and one woman, next is that public school curricula would have to present that as an alternative. When talking with her first grade class and a child says “I want to get married when I grow up,” the redefining crowd will next require the teacher to say “To a man or a woman?”

That’s why it’s not good enough for the movement that they can go to an Episcopal or other church and get married “in God’s eyes”. The movement wants it redefined so that children, especially teenagers when their crazy hormones have them sexually confused, have to be pushed the idea that they need to choose. Combine that with the movement to sexualize teens earlier and earlier (yeah, that urge is there but there’s so much “Don’t fight the urge, just use a condom”) and there’s the challenge.

It’s not really about rights, you can get those through other means, or about getting married, as there are many churches that will do that on the religious level, it’s about institutionalizing and making not recognizing it or teaching it illegal:

- Hate crime laws against churches easier to pass
- It forces public schools to incorporate in their curriculum as equal, which will both decimate public school enrollment in the flight to alternatives and increase the number of “keep my kid out of health class” objections. This is why the same liberal groups are trying to make home schooling illegal and fight vouchers tooth and nail.
- Any marriage enrichment program regardless of religious belief would have to either stop functioning or incorporate homosexuals or stop getting grants from any public agency.
- Religious organizations that are not non-profit and therefore can’t use “sexual orientation” as a reason not to hire would now also have to provide health insurance. At the very least this is a dramatic can of worms.

And next: Why stop at same sex marriage? How about polygamy?

PastorJon on May 11, 2009 at 4:26 PM

Don’t believe me? Read this other article on the Boy Scouts. Imagine if the Boy Scouts lack of recognition of gay marriage gave new grounds to lawsuits? Imagine if they were violating a law by not doing so?

PastorJon on May 11, 2009 at 4:33 PM

RightOfLeft,

You say that gay marriage weakens marriage for everybody else, but how is that going to work, exactly? Legally, husbands and wives will have the exact same rights and obligations as before, so that’s not any different. It won’t change how husbands and wives feel about each other. It won’t make it any harder to raise children. Nothing will change about the way marriage functions between a man and a woman.

The unique privileges of marriage would be permanently altered for the worse by elevating homosexual relationships to the status of marriage. It would not affect present marriages but it would negatively affect how the majority of men feel about marriage. They would not want to get married. Marriage would no longer be a civillising influence upon men (patriarchy to the extent that it exists is there to tame men – not women – the latter being more violent and less controllable) if it elevated people whose sexual relationship is uniquely incapable of siring a new generation of children. Pretending or simply decreeing that abnormal lifestyles are on a par with normal lifetsyles might be the just, equalitarian thing to do according to modern interpretations of universalist-souinding statements made by Thomas Jefferson or whoever at the Founding of the U.S. but this action will have a negative effect upon the institution of marriage (if not presently married couples).

aengus on May 11, 2009 at 7:18 PM

Well said.

cs89 on May 11, 2009 at 7:34 PM

Another home run Doc!!!

PastorJon on May 11, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Excellent point Pastor Jon. This is a strategy implemented by the left that Americans must realize before it’s to late. The back door once opened, allows the thieves to open up the front door for the army of lawyers to cash in on for generations to come. One step ahead of the public, with the media providing the distractions necessary to pull it off.

Keemo on May 11, 2009 at 7:47 PM

http://www.mindchanging.com/marriage/TMW.gif

radiofreevillage on May 11, 2009 at 7:59 PM

Bullseye, Doctor.

Mew

acat on May 11, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Bullseyes if the target is the one next to the right one.

mycowardice on May 11, 2009 at 8:01 PM

Legalizing gay marriage improves the lives of homosexuals and does no harm to heterosexuals. It’s the right thing to do.

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 3:24 PM

BINGO!

Gay marriage also improves society as a whole.

If any couple really thinks their marriage is lessened or harmed in any way because of another couple’s marriage, then that couple has a problem to begin with.

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Marriage would no longer be a civillising influence upon men (patriarchy to the extent that it exists is there to tame men – not women – the latter being more violent and less controllable)

Correction: What I meant to say was the men are more violent and less conrollable than women. Patriarchical institutions were traditionally created to control men who are, and have always been, more voluable than woman. That this is not obvious is due to decades of feminist theory.

aengus on May 11, 2009 at 8:11 PM

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Um, did you even read this piece? Geez!

Keemo on May 11, 2009 at 8:13 PM

Awesome, Doc. Now, tell us, who ARE you? :o )

Mommypundit on May 11, 2009 at 8:24 PM

Too much of our social evolution since the Sixties has been distorted by the ridiculous article of faith among the elites that men and women are interchangeable. Men and women are different, and they need each other.

My mother used to say, “A man is not a woman a father is not a mother”…so so true…and why would we want them to be?

Where was marriage originally defined and by whom? The Bible and by God. To those of us who believe that God is our creator and the one who sets the rules for His creation we can never accept gay marriage because God does not sanction it. It’s really that simple for millions and millions of us. God said marraige is between a man and a woman and that is that. Jesus confirmed this. For homosexuals to one day manage to get the laws changed so that they can be included in the definition of marraige would be a false,empty and meaningless victory for them. You are not married unless God says you and and he hasn’t given that to homosexuals…He expressly states it’s between a man and woman and He actually and unequivocally condemns homosexuality. Sorry for homosexuals and I do feel bad for them but I’m not about to presume or to have the nerve to put myself above God and agree to something that He forbids…

CCRWM on May 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 3:24 PM

It changes how kids feel about marriage which is part of what the good Doctor was saying. It changes it from a man and woman who swear the entirety of their lives and families to a mix of the modern version of marriage and beyond, namely two people who get together because they love one another.

The problem with sticking with the above definition, is, as almost anyone who’s been married can speak for, the initial passion fades. This can leave you with someone you don’t like as much as you thought this is why we have that large divorce rate.

angelwing34215 on May 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM

angelwing34215 on May 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM

quote fail!

angelwing34215 on May 11, 2009 at 8:27 PM

The institution of marriage was not created to serve as a “right”. It was created to serve as a restriction. It forced men to take responsibility for taking care of both the children that they fathered, as well as the mother of their children.

When a man and a woman are physically and romantically attracted to each other, that attraction can quickly lead to a child being born. If the man is nowhere to be found when the child is born, and is off impregnating some other woman, that’s a problem. Marriage was created to address that problem.

That being said, I still stand by my opinion that the main reason that same sex marriage should not be legalized is because, while homosexuality is normal, natural and moral for those who are born gay, bisexuality is nothing but heterosexuals engaging in sexually deviant behavior. If society legalizes same sex marriage for everyone, then society is telling people that we’re all capable of going either way. Teach this to school children, and future generations will be much more likely to engage in bisexuality. Welcome back to Ancient Rome.

ardenenoch on May 11, 2009 at 8:27 PM

Gentlemen, that some states are going to legalize gay marriage is inevitable. There is no way out of that. Further, it is going to get very hard to not not accept those marriages in other states. Thus for all practical purposes you’ve lost unless you change your game.

I suggest you take from the government the right to declare anyone married. That is to say, make it not the government’s decision. Not a matter for elected officials. Not a matter for lobbying groups. Not a matter for protests. Not a matter for the national press.

If we privatize marriage then it will be up to YOU to decide personally who is married and who is not. It will between you, your church (if you choose), and your family (if you choose). The legal component of the marriage will be entirely voluntary and could take any form you choose within normal contract law. Stop for a moment and define what you want your marriage to LEGALLY mean. Doubtless the current legal form doesn’t match your ideal perfectly. Well, if you write the contract then it can.

Everyone can have the union they want in the legal sense but the marriage itself will remain private. Thus everyone’s rights are respected and no one is diminishing or confusing the concept of marriage.

This seems like the best solution. I’d like for anyone that agrees or disagrees with this idea to comment. Please don’t get angry if I’ve accidentally stepped on someone’s toes here. I’m really trying to find a compromise that lets everyone have what they want.

Karmashock on May 11, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Doc Zero I’ve always enjoyed your writing…

CCRWM on May 11, 2009 at 8:37 PM

You’re all wrong. I just married my left sock in protest. We’re going on our honeymoon as soon as the laundry is done.

Harriet? Harriet! Where did you go, Harriet??? AHHHHH!

Daggett on May 11, 2009 at 8:43 PM

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 8:02 PM

Um, did you even read this piece? Geez!

Keemo on May 11, 2009 at 8:13 PM

From his comments…………..

…………. I would say no.

Seven Percent Solution on May 11, 2009 at 8:59 PM

homosexuals = Civil Unions

Heterosexuals = Marriage

Why can’t the homosexuals live with that…………?

Seven Percent Solution on May 11, 2009 at 9:03 PM

…homosexuality is normal, natural and moral for those who are born gay…

ardenenoch on May 11, 2009 at 8:27 PM

If one begins with a false premise, all that follows must needs prove false.

You began with a false premise. Homosexuality is a negative twisting of one’s body and behaviour. By its nature (as it is necessarily defined not by inclination, but by act) it is a public, rather than personal state of being. Homosexuality is a bane on the commonweal and is rightly accorded criminal censure and civil condemnation.

There, all better now.

Scribbler on May 11, 2009 at 9:06 PM

Oh, noes!

Gay marriage!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMSrEiPl5vY

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:12 PM

jgapinoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:13 PM

You have GOT to be kidding…

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:28 PM

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:28 PM

For an encore, shall I list the many theological reasons to oppose homosexual marriage?

jgapinoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:32 PM

This seems like the best solution. I’d like for anyone that agrees or disagrees with this idea to comment. Please don’t get angry if I’ve accidentally stepped on someone’s toes here. I’m really trying to find a compromise that lets everyone have what they want.

Karmashock on May 11, 2009 at 8:32 PM

child custody, public school curricula, involvement of faith-based organizations in public contracting and other areas of the law and policy, inheritance and other rights that revert to kin upon death or incapacitation

CK MacLeod on May 11, 2009 at 9:33 PM

For an encore, shall I list the many theological reasons to oppose homosexual marriage?

jgapinoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:32 PM

Not a single thing you listed there is based on any precedent, facts (of ANY kind), and you seriously list “it’s disgusting” as a reason.

C’mon, now. Nothing but opinionated, homophobic tripe.

JetBoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:47 PM

you seriously list “it’s disgusting” as a reason.

I wrote a paragraph & all you saw was ‘disgusting’?

jgapinoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:53 PM

JetBoy, since it’s

Nothing but opinionated, homophobic tripe.

can you refute, say, point 1?

jgapinoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:57 PM

Ten Non-Theological Reasons To Oppose Homosexual Marriage.

jgapinoy on May 11, 2009 at 9:13 PM

11. Kids raised by homosexual parents make really lousy plumbers.

Daggett on May 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM

frankly, jgapinoy, I find only a few of your non-theological reasons to oppose gay marriage tenable at all, and not as stated. It would be much more effective, in my view, for conservative opponents of re-definition of marriage to focus on evidence from countries that have embraced same sex marriage in the law: More research needs to be done, for instance, on the claims of the “Dutch scholars.” The Dutch experience and other experiences in countries and states that have re-defined marriage lend evidentiary support to the defense of marriage advanced by Dr. Zero.

There are other reasons for the state not to embrace and endorse a re-definition of marriage, presuming that we believe that the state has an interest in promoting and protecting procreation and family formation, which among other things means encouraging to males to be responsible husbands and fathers, and protecting women and children. A societal commitment to a purely transactional and contingent definition of marriage – in short, based on emotional attachments and abstract commitment – is incompatible with the promotion of family, not just family values, but actual formation of stable families.

CK MacLeod on May 11, 2009 at 10:24 PM

Dr. Zero,
Another good one.

But….

Men and women raised by parents who honor their lifelong pledge of devotion are better able to enter a democracy as strong, independent citizens who can fulfill their civic duties and use their voting power wisely.

Please don’t call us a democracy. We are a republic. A democracy (mobocracy) is what they are trying to do to us.

PrincipledPilgrim on May 11, 2009 at 10:25 PM

PastorJon on May 11, 2009 at 4:26 PM

None of those things are ways that marriage will be weakened. Even if I thought they were anything but a paranoid fantasy, I’d see it as an argument for strengthening the first amendment, not an argument against gay marriage.

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 10:39 PM

Correction: What I meant to say was the men are more violent and less conrollable than women. Patriarchical institutions were traditionally created to control men who are, and have always been, more voluable than woman. That this is not obvious is due to decades of feminist theory.

aengus on May 11, 2009 at 8:11 PM

You oughta meet some of my ex-girlfriends.

I don’t understand why you think men will view marriage differently if gays can get married, unless they happen to like other men. Few countries have legalized gay marriage, even in Europe, but the ones that have it aren’t experiencing the social confusion that social conservatives predict.

angelwing34215 on May 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM

There’s always been a romantic component of the cultural definition of marriage (read the wedding vows). Culturally, we accepted that the ideal marriage is based on romantic love a long time ago, and gay marriage isn’t going to change that, for better or worse.

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM

Um, did you even read this piece? Geez!

Keemo on May 11, 2009 at 8:13 PM

It flew right over his head.

Saltysam on May 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM

Karmashock on May 11, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Thus everyone’s rights are respected and no one is diminishing or confusing the concept of marriage.

By “everyone’s right are respected”, you surely mean “the rights of those who choose to identify themselves with a particular sort of sexual behavior are respected”.

This is a trial lawyer’s dream. Our society is rightfully built on the “prejudice” of preferring a married man and woman over any other social arrangement. This has influenced our society in so many ways, we couldn’t list them. Mandating that we deconstruct and rebuild a society that is free of such prejudice would require a wholesale refashioning of society.

Conveniently enough for leftists, this social conservatism goes hand in hand with the values shared by conservatives and libertarians: decentralized power, private virtue, strong military power, low taxation and preference for free enterprise. All that goes hand in hand with traditional marriage as a matter of course. Destroy (or “redefine”) the foundation of marriage, the rest of those values can be replaced with crap sandwiches also. If you want a single conservative idea to remain law, you will fight this thing tooth and nail.

bcm4134 on May 11, 2009 at 11:10 PM

I don’t understand why you think men will view marriage differently if gays can get married, unless they happen to like other men. Few countries have legalized gay marriage, even in Europe, but the ones that have it aren’t experiencing the social confusion that social conservatives predict.

It might take a generation for it to manifest itself but the institution of marriage would go into decline. It is the specialness of marriage that makes it what it is. It is a scandal that marriage between a man and a woman should put on a par with a union between two men who sodomise each other.

However what is not unreasonable or strange is that you can tease out or justify this state of affairs by reference to the universalist-sounding statements of Thomas Jefferson or other pioneers of homosexual marriage like Madison and Adams. Clearly homosexual union is what they had in mind.

aengus on May 11, 2009 at 11:38 PM

None of those things are ways that marriage will be weakened. Even if I thought they were anything but a paranoid fantasy, I’d see it as an argument for strengthening the first amendment, not an argument against gay marriage.

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 10:39 PM

Yep. The First Amendment is strongly supported by the courts as it should.

One could use the slippery slope argument against the first amendment. They’d be wrong to do so. It is also wrong to argue that gay people shouldn’t have their marriages recognized due to some unrelated future possibility.

dedalus on May 11, 2009 at 11:41 PM

aengus on May 11, 2009 at 11:38 PM

The founding fathers greatest failures were recognizing civil rights. I don’t think I need to resort to civil rights arguments to justify gay marriage, though. It’s a public health issue. Marriage could have a transformative effect on gay culture. You brought up the civilizing effect that marriage has on men — I’d add that it offers similar benefits to women — it could apply to gay marriages as easily as traditional marriage. The question is how it will affect traditional marriage, and I think that’s a legitimate concern. Since gay marriage doesn’t change any of the functional attributes of straight marriage, I can’t see any psychological mechanism that would lead straight people to treat marriage less seriously.

If this is really about defense of marriage, rather than defense of sexual norms, why aren’t social conservatives just as adamant about reforming divorce laws as preventing gay marriage? The defense of marriage argument seems like a concession by conservatives that they can’t justify their beliefs about homosexuality, so they’re moving to higher ground. But if conservatives can’t win the argument that homosexuality is wrong — that it’s not natural and healthy for some people — then why bother excluding gays from marriage?

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 11:56 PM

Good analysis

The point is to change the legal structure of the country, to express a revised, manufactured consensus that the sex of the people involved in a marriage doesn’t matter

And the objective is to force people to identify a gay coupling as a marriage, to accept it, teach and preach it.

When a definition is codified, it is enforced. In our society, once codified, it becomes discrimination to reject it

So a war is being waged to break the moral codes of prior generations by changing the definitions of the words in the law books

Everyone had freedom under Stalin, but the definition of Freedom was changed. Victims of Stalin learned to jump and adapt to the daily changes of truth to avoid the consequences.

As Rush Limbaugh stated, marriage of a male to a female civilizes the male. There is a biological reason to get the herd quieted. And it gives better inheritance to the offspring compared to children of the wandering stud. It builds and supports the most successful bio unit for survival of the species. If one unit is left in a holocaust, mankind will yet live on

Hetero bio units are the prime reproductive survival pods. Encouragement towards any other arrangement weakens the survival unit.

Other couplings can set up their own deals. Meanwhile they are offensive in the eyes of many religions. We should not have to worship their idols

entagor on May 12, 2009 at 1:57 AM

I wonder what it would have been like to attend the very first marriage in history? I keep imagining all sorts of scenarios: the caveman dragging his wife by the hair to his cave in Hoboken, to the Blue Lagoon idyllic boy meets girl on a deserted island and makes babies, ook!

Whatever the first marriage was like, procreation obviously made the difference on how, and what, our species eventually has evolved into in its present form. The only difference now is, evolution has taken our species into the most rudest step forward and has just maybe, reached its pinnacle and into the abyss of oblivion. Just one step back from my conservative Neanderthal upbringing I suppose makes me a pro-marriage advocate. Wrong gene pool I suppose.

Consider the evolution of the human spices, where its been and where its going, what has survived and has flourished and what devolved into the forgotten. It’s either Amazon Woman on the Moon and Lord of the Flies, meets, grows up, gets a job and has children and grandchildren, to/or American Idol and guess my androgynous message and how I learned to love the hermaphroditic self in me. I can always tell myself; There’s plenty of children in China or Africa to adopt. I will always have a lineage, even though my gene pool ends here.

Homo erectus ‘to’ modern man: evolution or human variability? To think that cockroaches will survive us no matter what, makes my desire to be shirtless and sweaty no less attractive to any species of the same or opposite sex.

Who ever remains….. wins!

Kini on May 12, 2009 at 3:02 AM

RightOFLeft,

why aren’t social conservatives just as adamant about reforming divorce laws as preventing gay marriage?

I would imagine it is because they do not follow their thoughts beyond one issue at one time and so don’t make the connection. I myself would be in favour of reforming divorce laws and am quite consistent in this regard.

But if conservatives can’t win the argument that homosexuality is wrong — that it’s not natural and healthy for some people — then why bother excluding gays from marriage?

Conservatives can’t win any argumenst nowadays. The progressivist-determinist thinking that old-fashioned people who are opposed to homosexual unions are dying out applies to every issue. So bye bye Republic and bye bye Republican party. In a few years there won’t even be a new generation of fiscal conservatives as Obama’s giant welfare cushion will make growing up unneccessary.

To answer your question seriously: the truth will endure, even if it is slightly out of fashion at the moment. I’m willing to bet (not actual money – though only because internet gambling is illegal) that homosexual marriage will be outlawed in America in 2059. Either that or there’ll be a gay, Spanish-speaking President.

aengus on May 12, 2009 at 6:39 AM

RightOFLeft on May 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM

I was under the impression that how we set up marriages now (dating and the like) is a relatively new thing to humanity and arrangements were the order of the day for centuries (well, except men got some say with their parents for who they got to marry), could be mistaken though.

angelwing34215 on May 12, 2009 at 6:48 AM

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Allahpundit on May 12, 2009 at 7:24 AM

It appears that the world, especially this country, is currently in a let’s break with, tear down, alter and revise our traditions phase–much like the mid-sixties. Some of the changes that came out of the 60′s were good, others were not so good. You can decide which for yourselves. When we reach the point where there are no traditions or standards remaining I suspect our civilization will collapse as those before us have done. Please understand that I am not singling out gay marriage in this regard.It’s just that society needs values, standards, taboos and self disciplines that are accepted and valued by the majority. Throughout history, a society that loses these fails.

jeanie on May 12, 2009 at 7:54 AM

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