Gender neutrality carried to extremes at Stanford
posted at 7:35 pm on May 4, 2009 by Pundette
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*Update: The daughter responds in a comment on a NYT blog post which linked to Ms. Morin’s article.
Here’s a new twist on college undermining the values of its students while parents pay dearly for the privilege. According to Karin Venable Morin, writing on NRO, the formerly great University of Chicago, as well as Stanford University, where her daughter is a senior, now routinely and randomly place young men and women in the same room. That’s right, in the same bedroom. Ms. Morin refers to it as “co-ed within the room.” She has a daughter at Stanford and learned of the novel arrangement in a phone call from her daughter, which she later related to her incredulous mother-in-law:
“She’s sharing a room with one other girl and two boys,” I said.
“You mean a suite.”
“No,” I said. “I mean a bedroom.”
My mother-in-law couldn’t believe it.
“But wait,” I said. “It gets worse. She didn’t ask for this room arrangement. She missed the room meeting because she had a friend visiting from the East Coast. She appointed a proxy, and said she wanted a room with no smoking and no sex in the room, but she didn’t ask for a single-sex room.”
“Should she?” asked my mother-in-law.
“Well, apparently. But she says she didn’t think it was necessary.”
“So she asked to get out, right?”
“Wrong. Her dorm had a seven-hour room meeting, and she doesn’t want to upset everyone’s consensus arrangements. Plus, she says it’s no big deal.”
“So where does she get dressed?”
“That’s the same question I asked,” I said. “She says she gets dressed in the bathroom.”
Just to gain a little perspective on this, let’s remember that it’s unusual for American parents to place brothers and sisters in the same bedroom. It is sometimes done so out of necessity when children are very young, but do you know of a single family in which opposite-sexed children over the age of six share a bedroom? Me neither.
After some digging, the parents learned that the circumstances that led to the co-ed bedroom were the result of a corruption of a “pilot program for gender neutral housing” instituted (without parents’ knowledge) “to create a more welcoming atmosphere for transgender and homosexual students.”
And to think that my husband and I, when we consider colleges for our children, have a problem with schools that don’t offer single-sex dorms.
The “co-ed within the room” is a trend:
Stanford and at least 50 other colleges and universities are promoting through their dormitory arrangements an ideology of gender that we personally reject and oppose.
Read all of Ms. Morin’s account for the gory details. Then consider some alternatives to four years of expensive indoctrination, intellectual abuse, and contempt for traditional values. College needn’t be the default option, though President Obama is keen on making it, as well as pre-school, “universal.” Perhaps your child would be happier learning a trade and doing a dirty job.
From Ms. Morin:
I could talk about conspiracy theories, and how the modern university is trying to change society’s norms. I could talk about how the university caters to the “edgy” — whatever that is at the moment. I could talk about how I have new sympathy for my parents’ concerns about rooming arrangements at Yale when I arrived there 30-some years ago. I could talk about mother-guilt, and how I have failed to convey my moral values to my daughter.
My hope, looking forward, is to warn other parents: Stanford and many other colleges and universities do not respect their common-sense values. The university seeks to undermine those values. If parents don’t want “gender neutral” housing for their children, they need to talk with their money, the only voice the university will allow them. Otherwise, parents will have to resign themselves to the risk of paying a heavier cost than they expect for their children’s education.
Note to Ms. Morin: lose the mother-guilt but keep fighting the good fight.
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This is unbelievable. I have not heard of this. It’s gender-politics run amok. They do this in the military in combat areas. It never turns out well.
The value of higher education continues to diminish. I have higher ed degrees myself, but am wondering the viability of this for my kids when they get to that age. Most likely a small Christian college will be our choice, if they choose college.
conservative pilgrim on May 4, 2009 at 11:46 PM
We have educated ourselves into imbecility.
daesleeper on May 5, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Parents pay $25K+ for this crap
Bevan on May 5, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Awww, man! I miss college even more now!
gregbert on May 5, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Some dudes could really luck out with their roommates, though.
Tabris on May 5, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Have you ever watched the movie Starship Troopers?
True gender neutrality. Coed group showers.
blink on May 5, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Once again, to my friends, family, and fellow commenters here who are gay and don’t understand the opposition to your gays-in-your-face agenda: read and understand. You people are fucking up society, simply put.
Despite your repeated claims that gays are just like everyone else, except they have sex with people of the same gender, understand our skepticism. The left edge of your community wants nothing less than to break down society beyond the biological differences between men and women.
For those of you who are homosexual but blindsided or even offended by these arrangements, the left has (hilariously) granted you Absolute Moral Authority. Speak now or acknowledge that your endorse this idiotic arrangement.
Jaibones on May 5, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Man, my college never had this. Unfair.
Still, what a great opening for the devious guys, “Yes Mr. Housing Coordinator, I’m gayer than Perez Hilton so you can feel safe assigning me to share a room with the chick who heads the cheerleading squad.”
Bishop on May 5, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Prager
Jaibones on May 5, 2009 at 11:47 AM
If I wasn’t married to a smoking hot redhead I would download my application to Standford right now.
LincolntheHun on May 5, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Well, it didn’t start out that way, but, my kids are 5 and 2 and share a bedroom until we find a good house in a couple of years. So…yeah.
But, I agree that this is disturbing. But, do we expect anything less?
When do we get to take over the educational system, anyway? I think it’s time for a regime change.
Mommypundit on May 5, 2009 at 11:51 AM
conservative pilgrim on May 4, 2009 at 11:46 PM
Umm Noooooo
I have done several tours in combat zones (even got some nifty patches and medals and a t-shirt), and there is always….. Always a separate tent, sleeping area, differnt rooms of the same bombed out building, what ever between the sexes.
You might be able to cite a specific time when this (shared quarters)occured but it is against regulations and everyone involved could face UCMJ.
So do not blame the Military, this level of stupidity requires an advanced degree from an “elite” school.
LincolntheHun on May 5, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Hmmm. I wonder if the pregnancy rate and STD rates go up at those colleges and universities.
My oldest is only six and I can’t help but be frightened by what “forward-thinking” universities will consider to be “progressive” in 12 years.
Kim Priestap on May 5, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Sad to say but I am not surprised by this disgusting revelation. Institutes for
higherlower learning have been undermining morals and family values for decades. It makes me sick.HotAirExpert on May 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM
When the sexual assault charges start mounting, I’ll be very interested to see Stanford explain.
MadisonConservative on May 5, 2009 at 11:58 AM
And there are only hot chicks in the future.
lorien1973 on May 5, 2009 at 12:00 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
WisCon on May 5, 2009 at 12:02 PM
There’s nothing like a university for replacing wisdom with “higher learning”.
jgapinoy on May 5, 2009 at 12:02 PM
When the sexual assault charges start mounting, I’ll be very interested to see Stanford explain.
MadisonConservative on May 5, 2009 at 11:58 AM
pretty unbelievable. makes you wonder what they are teaching at these universities doesn’t it? When I have kids, they won’t be going to college at this rate and they’ll be better off for it.
ThackerAgency on May 5, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Goes hand in hand with “women’s studies” (read: man-hating), “African American studies” (read: victim indoctrination), “Asian studies” (read: Christian-bashing), etc. I think when enough university students get AIDS, STDs, and of course pregnant, the tide might turn a bit. Frankly, as a woman, I can’t imagine giving up my privacy so cheaply. Boys were much more fun when they went HOME after a date.
But maybe that’s just me. My son won’t have these issues in the seminary.
tcn on May 5, 2009 at 12:05 PM
if they can’t teach that boys and girls are different, what can they teach?
ThackerAgency on May 5, 2009 at 12:05 PM
How to say “Cinco de Mayo?”
tcn on May 5, 2009 at 12:06 PM
If your best friend was of the opposite sex this could actually be really cool. I dig it.
dcwvu on May 5, 2009 at 12:07 PM
As a college guy, yes, I’d love it.
As a parent, I’d be appalled.
joe_doufu on May 5, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Add alcohol and you have a fool-proof recipe for disaster. And lawsuits.
Jillatpnp on May 5, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Update: at the Stanford’s of the world, any many other private universities, it’s $52K+. Each year.
You may cry for me.
Greg Toombs on May 5, 2009 at 12:18 PM
This will turn out awesome as soon as alcohol and weed are introduced into the sexy mix. And since these liberals are so enlightened, there is no way there will be any sexual assaults or harassment. And condoms will be given out free at the front desk because they make sex guilt free!
I’m glad I am a 40 yr old fart and missed this new summer of lust. I am scared for my daughters, however.
Spectreman on May 5, 2009 at 12:23 PM
At least it gives the RA’s one more thing not to worry about. Until the arguing starts.
DanMan on May 5, 2009 at 12:23 PM
ummm , You think my wife will let me go back to college for a semester?
UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on May 5, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Not sure if it’s changed, but I read several articles within the past 5 years or so about many colleges either not reporting, under reporting or cleverly redefining what sexual assault on campus constitutes.
However, your question was the first thing I asked myself about this.
TugboatPhil on May 5, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Unreal. I loathe these Leftist tools.
It’s all about indoctrinating the ‘heteronormative majority’ aka “AFRAIDS” into being “allies”.
Here’s how they combat “homophobia and heterosexism” at NYU.
Buy Danish on May 5, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Yale students (and their enablers), too are pushing this agenda. Vociferously. Like communism (where everyone is equal, albeit equally miserable), the goal is to make sure that not one single “transgender” student (of which there are currently NONE known on campus at this time) feel uncomfortable; the tactic is to ridicule anyone who opposes this idea into submission (or silence, which formerly equaled “death,” if you recall).
This started about ten years ago when “heteronormative” somehow became a pejorative.
Hieronymus on May 5, 2009 at 12:38 PM
For a synopsis (happens to be Yale, but it is ubiquitous on “top” campuses), check this story:
http://yaledailynews.com/articles/view/27699
and
http://yaledailynews.com/articles/view/28088
Some of the comments are priceless, esp. those directed at the few Conservatives.
Hieronymus on May 5, 2009 at 12:40 PM
I ended up with a de-facto coed dorm room — my roommate’s girlfriend ended up basically moving in with him. Not fun (particularly when it highlights how you aren’t getting any).
On the plus side, when I finally complained about it, they spent the rest of the year in her room instead.
Count to 10 on May 5, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Exactly. What could possibly go wrong?
Prepare for the new “sleepwalking” defense.
TexasDan on May 5, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Get this arrangement going at colleges around the country, and Planned Parenthood will be rollin’ in dough!
Oh, sure, a few rapes here and there, but we mustn’t let that stand in the way of full-throttle hedonism.
My kids both tanked in junior college (lack of give-a-crap), before they ever got to a university — and I think I’m starting to be glad. I’d rather they be financially poor than morally bankrupt.
RegularJoe on May 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Sadly this is a sign of the times. My alma mater also offers this option to sophomores and above. From the Brown housing site:
Gee, I wonder what could be a guy’s motive to share a dorm room with a woman? College guys are so noble and pure, you know?
Great to know that the parents who are shelling out their retirement money to send little Johnny to college won’t be notified of his decision.
I complained to the University and was told, essentially, that the students wanted this option, so the school had no choice but to offer it. So much for the school having any sort of moral backbone.
No more donations from me.
sultanp on May 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Don’t “transgender” folks feel uncomfortable all the time anyway, by definition? If you’re upset by what you see when you look down in the shower, I don’t think the gender of your roommate is going to solve much.
TexasDan on May 5, 2009 at 12:50 PM
This could be a brief trend, until the first sex harassment lawsuit that gets filed against a university over actions resulting from the co-ed living arrangements.
jon1979 on May 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Wasn’t their a big ruckus a few years back where some leftist feminazi group had an awareness campaign that any guy could be a date-rapist? They even used a picture of a random student from the college’s facebook as a potential perp on their posters.
How could these numbnuts go from one extreme to the other and set up situations that could result in either sexual assaults or false allegations? What idiots.
Laura in Maryland on May 5, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Maybe if that nice med student gets acquitted, he can find a nice female roommate. He’ll need one; I heard the wedding is off.
Laura in Maryland on May 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM
I am not “blaming” the military at all. Sheesh. I am saying that this gender-politics junk has infiltrated the military specifically with these sleeping arrangements, and it never turns out well. Granted those co-ed arrangements in the military are rare, yet it remains a goal of gender-neutrality proponents.
I remember reading about co-ed sleeping arrangements in combat areas a while back. No, I don’t have a link. I asked my husband about it (Active Duty Chap./served in combat recently & multiple times) and he said it is rare, depends on different commands and situations, and would change with the request of the CH or someone else.
My point being that experiments with this social engineering, the military being one example, never turns out well (promiscuity, unwanted pregnancy, sexual harrassment, breakdown of morale and mission, etc.).
conservative pilgrim on May 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM
You get the impression that the Libs didn’t think this one through to its logical end.
conservative pilgrim on May 5, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Don’t panic! In 10 to 12 yrars Shari’a will be in style (if not the law) with the full burqa obligatory and strict segregation the rule.
Annar on May 5, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Omigosh. Your logic is unassailable.
Right. Or morally and financially bankrupt.
Jillatpnp on May 5, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Have you ever watched the movie Starship Troopers?
True gender neutrality. Coed group showers.
blink on May 5, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Back when I was in grad school, I remember reading in the student newspaper about a another pilot program at Stanford -either in a residence hall, or in a co-ed fraternity sanctioned by the university (I can’t remember which, as it’s been several years). One of the unique -features: co-ed bathrooms, including showers. The article even had a photograph of two guys and a girl (her back to the camera)in a typical-looking communal shower.
I’m guessing that they were happy with the results of this experiment, so they’re finally moving on to the next step…
djm1992 on May 5, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Woe is the guy who gets a room with 2 girls. A week in hell every month.
lorien1973 on May 5, 2009 at 1:32 PM
I think these housing arrangements are a really bad idea, but parents do have another option — before “talk[ing] with their money” they should try talking with their kids. I guarantee that there is no way my sister or I would have wound up with this living arrangement. We knew our parents would not have tolerated it. End of story.
Colleges seem to be drifting toward this arrangement for marketing reasons. They want to ensure that campus housing is as appealing to anyone willing to pay for it as they possibly can make it. It’s really not a nefarious plan to shift society’s mores — at least not in most cases. It’s just salesmanship.
Y-not on May 5, 2009 at 1:34 PM
As this always sounds cool on first glance, there’s always the chance of fat chicks, man-hating dykes or smelly/sloppy roommates.
Seriously tho, this should be an opt-in only program.
*sigh*
Kai on May 5, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Several years ago, I took my son to Syracuse when he was a freshman. I was appalled then to find that his dorm room was right next door to a female dorm room. “Oh, you’re so old fashioned,” the screwl implied. Right. Let’s see, how do you guarantee failure in college: how about total distraction while the hormones are highest? Combine that with drug availability, underage drinking, and attempts at indoctrination. He was a good kid when he went there, but was overwhelmed. Took him several years to get his life straightened back out, including a stint in the military and a dead-end job, but he has now succeeded. I am proud of him to have overcome the terrible college experience.
Parents, if it seems weird to you, IT IS WEIRD! You will pay with your money, but your children will pay with years of their lives.
Christian Conservative on May 5, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Or violent night terrors.
nor on May 5, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Yeah, I agree.
It also seems weird to me that, notwithstanding the educational privacy regulations, the folks paying the bill are not in the loop in the process of selecting the room.
Y-not on May 5, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Back when I was at Stanford (20+ years ago) there were some dorms with coed bathrooms. They had separate toilet stalls and separate shower stalls, but still not much privacy.
Unsanctioned coed rooms were not uncommon either. My suite-mate had his girlfriend sleep over almost every night. I had the middle room, which she had to go through every morning to exit. At least they tried to be quiet after midnight.
Given the sexual liberality on many college campuses, I don’t think coed rooms is going to increase the sexual activity of the students. Even in my more liberal youth, the last thing I’d want to do is get involved with someone I HAD to share a room with.
Snidely Whiplash on May 5, 2009 at 1:46 PM
When I was in college my girlfriend and I would have welcomed this. Now that I have two daughters in college I don’t care for it so much. It’s that whole older and wiser thing.
Buford on May 5, 2009 at 2:04 PM
You keep talking about the parents wishes and desires, but I bet 9 times out of 10, the kids want the same thing. While many college freshmen might think that coed bedrooms would be edgy and cool – I am pretty sure that when it comes down to the logistics of where to change and other habits, they will be quick to self-select single-gender bedrooms.
DWSC on May 5, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Oh, I’m sure you’re right… maybe not 9 out of 10, but I’m sure a majority of students would want single sex rooms. Particularly freshmen girls.
Having said that, the part I question is the legality of keeping the people who are paying for the room in the dark about the nature of the room. Assuming that most students who are living in dorms are supported by their parents, it seems to me that the university as “landlord” should have to work with the people paying the “rent.”
Y-not on May 5, 2009 at 2:22 PM
For anyone looking for an alternative – All the dorms at BYU are single-gender, AND BYU requires single gender apartments for students living off campus.
DWSC on May 5, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Y-not, I don’t think the school has any obligation to the parents since their child is a legal adult and the parents are simply paying the rent on their behalf. You might have an argument if the student was still under 18. It really has to be the parents who talk to their kids, and refuse to pay for housing if they live in a co-ed bedroom. Let the student raise hell at the school himself. If the schools are doing this because students “demand” it, then the students need to demand it the other way.
DWSC on May 5, 2009 at 2:29 PM
I think almost all of you, including perhaps the authors of this piece and the original piece, are missing the key word here:
This is clearly one of the liberal co-ops at Stanford that works by consensus. I think the author is mistaken that this is part of the “Gender Neutral option.” Co-ops are not dorms and pretty much do as they please, from requiring various chores to having only vegetarian food options available. In some sense this is the university version of federalism, where each co-op can try their own thing and see what works for their population. And, in theory, everyone has veto power. In practice, though, here’s what happens to dissenting voices when “consensus” is the rule in Stanford organizations.
calbear on May 5, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Shoot, in my day we only got co-ed rooms if we were lucky enough to score a chick. Kids today have it too easy. Assigned co-eds, rather than through choice? harrumph!
Now if you’ll excuse me, there are some damn kids on the lawn again.
rbj on May 5, 2009 at 2:39 PM
This is insane! And the cost of college keeps going up. Maybe all these liberal parents should start looking at church sponsored colleges if they don’t want little Sally coming home on Christmas break knocked up!
kens on May 5, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Probably a stipulation to the Saudi grant money.
BL@KBIRD on May 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Should be opt-in only. Why that isn’t obvious to anyone is beyond me. I hope nobody has to suffer for this before they get it sorted out.
TheUnrepentantGeek on May 5, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Excellent point. Frightening how these bastions of women’s liberation may end up making them into victims instead.
Kim Priestap on May 5, 2009 at 2:51 PM
There is always BYU.
PrettyD_Vicious on May 5, 2009 at 3:06 PM
I’m sure you’re right. The university lawyers have probably been through all of these issues with a fine tooth comb and I’m not a lawyer. But it does seem odd to me that the folks who are responsible for paying for the housing are not the ones making the selection. The university would be apprised of which students are dependents (financially) through the financial aid office, so it seems disingenuous to me for the university to behave as if the parents weren’t part of the equation.
It’s been a zillion years since I was in school, but I don’t recall signing anything like a lease agreement for my dorm room. Had I trashed my dorm room, the university’s recourse would have been to kick me off campus. Under the logic used here they couldn’t really hit me with a bill and expect me to pay for it and they certainly couldn’t send the bill to my parents. Kind of an odd situation to give someone access to something expensive (like a dorm room) without making any attempt to ensure that they would be financially responsible for (or capable of paying) the damages. Had I been living in an apartment off-campus, I doubt I could have passed the financial background check for an apartment… I’m sure my parents would have had to sign off on any lease.
But, yeah, ultimately although I don’t think this is a good arrangement, it all boils down to how the parents raised their kids… so it’s a little hard to get worked up about it.
Y-not on May 5, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Heck, Berkeley has single-gender dorms (as in, the entire structure has rooms for only one gender). But, again, this is about a (barely-)adult woman who chose to live in a co-op (not a dorm) and now has to choose among her living partners (who caused the situation) and her parents (who cut off her funding).
The thing is, as Snidely Whiplash noted, most colleges have hundreds of students in de facto mixed-gender rooms. The difference here is that the daughter actually told her mother of the situation. Somehow I think her being punished doubly for this (first by being assigned the room, then by having her parents cut off her funds) is not going to foster closer family ties.
calbear on May 5, 2009 at 3:19 PM
I’m not surprised by any of this. I worked with a guy who went to Rochester Institute of Technology in the 80s, who told me he lived in a dorm with co-ed shower rooms. “No big deal,” apparently. There seems to be a mentality that reduces gender to an arbitrary biological construct, with no effect on our lives that we cannot change to our liking. The ultimate fruit of post-industrial society.
Audous Huxley was right.
manwithblackhat on May 5, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Did I say Audous? I meant ALDOUS. He was still right, though.
manwithblackhat on May 5, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Just fyi. I checked to see what the U of C’s arrangement is and in their case, at least, it’s opt-in and won’t be available in the housing that has been traditionally single-sex.
Also, I found the same “story” about the Stanford student that’s quoted above re-told as being about a University of Chicago student, so I wonder if there’s a little bit of internet mythos going on here.
Y-not on May 5, 2009 at 4:17 PM
I didn’t realize the housing situation in this case was in one of the co-ops at Stanford. The co-ops are more autonomous than a regular dorm situation. They are smaller buildings, more like frat houses or sororities in size, and run somewhat in the same manner of independence from normal dorm guidelines, having to comply with fewer guidelines.
What is as disturbing to me is the “don’t rock the boat” attitude. Consensus, consmenshus; take a stand if you’re not comfortable with the situation you ended up in. College is supposed to be about learning to think independently, not conforming to those around you for the sake of political correctness or not offending someone.
Snidely Whiplash on May 5, 2009 at 4:34 PM
I suppose that’s the one upside of the parents yanking the funds: This woman’s going to have to learn how to make a choice in which she’s going to have to either confront someone or quickly find life even more uncomfortable.
As is stated in the article, the consensus process, even when devoid of the nasty politics of the article I linked to, is brutal and long (seven hours in this case), one in which every person must be happy with every detail decided upon. It’s not a process that is very agreeable to amendment. She might have to leave her friends behind (with sore feelings and a budget problem) and desperately look for last-minute housing. I’d offer her my extra room, but, seeing as how I’m male, that would kind of defeat the whole purpose of her moving out.
But yeah; this is being misrepresented as a consequence of some sort of LGBT agenda rather than a consequence of co-ops being autonomous.
calbear on May 5, 2009 at 6:20 PM
Yep, looks like there’s some spinning going on.
Mr. Y-not’s institution recently weighed this issue and in their case, at least, the calculation was 100% about keeping the college competitive for the best students by offering the full range of housing options. Political correctness had nothing to do with it.
Basically, the message is that if you’re a parent and you are concerned about these things (which you should be) pay attention to the details before you write that check. At the U of C, at least, all that would mean is making sure your kid signed up to live in a single-sex dorm. I gather at Stanford you’d want to keep your kid out of a co-op.
Y-not on May 5, 2009 at 7:02 PM