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	<title>Comments on: 1,361 Days to Go:  Stop Helping the Statists Divide Us</title>
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	<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/</link>
	<description>HotAir.com&#039;s Greenroom</description>
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		<title>By: CK MacLeod</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/comment-page-1/#comment-4531</link>
		<dc:creator>CK MacLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 18:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=1337#comment-4531</guid>
		<description>The statement you quote is a statement of my belief, and, for reasons I stated, I believe that the expansion of a Christian state - the virtual establishment of one or another religion or sect - would be destructive to real Christian conservative interests, not to mention un-American, not to mention un-conservative.  Where W and Huckabee diverge or have diverged from this understanding they deserve to be opposed, in my view.  Their divergences don&#039;t, however, need to be exaggerated into unhinged condemnation.  On the other hand, if you&#039;ve got some deep-seated problem with Christians or insist on discussing social conservatives only in terms of stereotypes, take it somewhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The statement you quote is a statement of my belief, and, for reasons I stated, I believe that the expansion of a Christian state &#8211; the virtual establishment of one or another religion or sect &#8211; would be destructive to real Christian conservative interests, not to mention un-American, not to mention un-conservative.  Where W and Huckabee diverge or have diverged from this understanding they deserve to be opposed, in my view.  Their divergences don&#8217;t, however, need to be exaggerated into unhinged condemnation.  On the other hand, if you&#8217;ve got some deep-seated problem with Christians or insist on discussing social conservatives only in terms of stereotypes, take it somewhere else.</p>
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		<title>By: hicsuget</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/comment-page-1/#comment-4460</link>
		<dc:creator>hicsuget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 03:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=1337#comment-4460</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The expansion of the state in all dimensions is a mortal threat to both So-Cons and E-Cons.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not true. The expansion of a &lt;em&gt;secular&lt;/em&gt; state is a mortal threat to So-Cons. George W Bush, Mike Huckabee, et al. don&#039;t seem to mind statism all that much, so long as it is &lt;em&gt;Christian &lt;/em&gt;statism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The expansion of the state in all dimensions is a mortal threat to both So-Cons and E-Cons.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not true. The expansion of a <em>secular</em> state is a mortal threat to So-Cons. George W Bush, Mike Huckabee, et al. don&#8217;t seem to mind statism all that much, so long as it is <em>Christian </em>statism.</p>
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		<title>By: Rovin</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3983</link>
		<dc:creator>Rovin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 13:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=1337#comment-3983</guid>
		<description>I believe we also need grass roots theme like the Contract with American that took hold with the Gingrich Republicans.  When there is so much pork in this bloated government that is already causing mainstream businesses to remain moderate in their spending and growth practices, it should be easy to &quot;point the finger&quot; (provide a list) of democrats that contributed to &quot;feeding the pig of big government&quot; while the average citizen was forced to rein in their spending.  

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Did you know that while your family cancelled that summer vacation, passed on the new car you needed, and put less food on the table, your CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES spent enough money to insure your children and grandchildren will also go with out?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Provide a picture of a huge ugly monster, (our current government) devouring our money and destroying everything in its path.  The grassroots voter has to realize that it&#039;s every liberal legislator feeding this monster like the Grinch that stole Christmas, only there&#039;s no happy ending.

Have every &quot;new Republican&quot; running for any office, local, regional, or federal; make the solemn promise to NEVER feed the monster that&#039;s devouring our children&#039;s future.  (show pictures of our liberal &quot;leadership&quot; feasting in their tuxes in the finest restaurants, cruise ships, etc, while the average citizen waits for more false promise&#039;s from the monster----BIG GOVERNMENT.  If the liberal Democrats can &quot;win&quot; elections by this &quot;class warfare&quot; by dividing the &quot;haves&quot; and &quot;have nots&quot; while promising &quot;free&quot; education and &quot;free&quot; health care, we must also get the electorate to understand that these &quot;freedoms&quot; will be paid for by feeding the very monster they detest.

Economic conditions will be the main force that can propel Republicans into office in 2010 and 2012.  But only by framing who is to blame for &quot;feeding the monster&quot; at the people&#039;s expense and sacrifice&#039;s, while &quot;THEY&quot; dine on caviar and champagne.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe we also need grass roots theme like the Contract with American that took hold with the Gingrich Republicans.  When there is so much pork in this bloated government that is already causing mainstream businesses to remain moderate in their spending and growth practices, it should be easy to &#8220;point the finger&#8221; (provide a list) of democrats that contributed to &#8220;feeding the pig of big government&#8221; while the average citizen was forced to rein in their spending.  </p>
<p><em>&#8220;Did you know that while your family cancelled that summer vacation, passed on the new car you needed, and put less food on the table, your CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES spent enough money to insure your children and grandchildren will also go with out?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Provide a picture of a huge ugly monster, (our current government) devouring our money and destroying everything in its path.  The grassroots voter has to realize that it&#8217;s every liberal legislator feeding this monster like the Grinch that stole Christmas, only there&#8217;s no happy ending.</p>
<p>Have every &#8220;new Republican&#8221; running for any office, local, regional, or federal; make the solemn promise to NEVER feed the monster that&#8217;s devouring our children&#8217;s future.  (show pictures of our liberal &#8220;leadership&#8221; feasting in their tuxes in the finest restaurants, cruise ships, etc, while the average citizen waits for more false promise&#8217;s from the monster&#8212;-BIG GOVERNMENT.  If the liberal Democrats can &#8220;win&#8221; elections by this &#8220;class warfare&#8221; by dividing the &#8220;haves&#8221; and &#8220;have nots&#8221; while promising &#8220;free&#8221; education and &#8220;free&#8221; health care, we must also get the electorate to understand that these &#8220;freedoms&#8221; will be paid for by feeding the very monster they detest.</p>
<p>Economic conditions will be the main force that can propel Republicans into office in 2010 and 2012.  But only by framing who is to blame for &#8220;feeding the monster&#8221; at the people&#8217;s expense and sacrifice&#8217;s, while &#8220;THEY&#8221; dine on caviar and champagne.</p>
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		<title>By: CK MacLeod</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3936</link>
		<dc:creator>CK MacLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 04:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=1337#comment-3936</guid>
		<description>Graham&#039;s correct, and you are, too, Apologist, but I think anything that&#039;s going to happen within the next couple of election cycles would have to be a come as you are affair, in some significant part charisma- and crisis-driven - unless there&#039;s a lot more going on out there already on the city council level that I&#039;m unaware of and that happens to be good, too.  

If the Republican Party doesn&#039;t produce leadership, or convincing leaders don&#039;t take it over and revive it, then lots of unthinkable things could happen.  Not only could they happen, they could become necessary and unavoidable.  It almost goes without saying that envisioning the state of the nation, and the risks to it, that would likely accompany such circumstances is not a pleasant exercise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham&#8217;s correct, and you are, too, Apologist, but I think anything that&#8217;s going to happen within the next couple of election cycles would have to be a come as you are affair, in some significant part charisma- and crisis-driven &#8211; unless there&#8217;s a lot more going on out there already on the city council level that I&#8217;m unaware of and that happens to be good, too.  </p>
<p>If the Republican Party doesn&#8217;t produce leadership, or convincing leaders don&#8217;t take it over and revive it, then lots of unthinkable things could happen.  Not only could they happen, they could become necessary and unavoidable.  It almost goes without saying that envisioning the state of the nation, and the risks to it, that would likely accompany such circumstances is not a pleasant exercise.</p>
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		<title>By: The Apologist</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3934</link>
		<dc:creator>The Apologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 04:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=1337#comment-3934</guid>
		<description>I would only make one other point that didn&#039;t get emphasis in the summary. Rovin is right that the economic consequences of Obanomics will bring more attention to GOP alternatives and I think this will happen sooner than Obama and the Dem Congress think it will. But that won&#039;t be enough to reinvigorate the party. We desperately need an activist base among our more economically inclined members. I think this is the key to securing victory in 2010 and 2012, but it will extend beyond that to keep the party stable with a broad appeal for years afterward.

We need soldiers already on the march to take advantage of that opportunity when it arrives. It will be too late to respond effectively when people begin to sour on Welfare Capitalism in large enough numbers to swing an election. Social conservatives make up a much larger proportion of the activist and volunteer base of the party than is healthy. Republican candidates can win primaries with social cons help alone. That isn&#039;t good for the party as a whole or the economic conservatives in particular. Instead of pushing social cons out we need to bring grassroots economic cons in to the volunteer and activist culture. The tea parties are a good vehicle for this nationally, but we need local and state organization in addition to the tea parties. Not protest movements, but economic pressure groups of our own. Small business associations and chambers of commerce are the logical place to start, but they aren&#039;t sufficient. Tax payer groups moving into aggressive recruitment would be another good vehicle.

I think the tea parties are best left broad and open to independents and moderate democrats, but they&#039;re good recruiting grounds for the type of people we need. The only other thing I would say is this won&#039;t work if we don&#039;t pay attention to &lt;a href=&quot;http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-good-old-boy-party/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adam Graham&#039;s essay today at Pajamas Media.&lt;/a&gt; He&#039;s got a good point and Newt was pointing up the problem indirectly on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvw4rlEy19M&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;C-Span this morning&lt;/a&gt; in comments about Michael Steele&#039;s tenure as national party chairman. Whether you agree with Steele&#039;s attempted changes or not ( and I don&#039;t really, his focus is all wrong) he&#039;s still running into walls that we&#039;re going to run into eventually so we should be thinking about how to solve this problem before we get there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would only make one other point that didn&#8217;t get emphasis in the summary. Rovin is right that the economic consequences of Obanomics will bring more attention to GOP alternatives and I think this will happen sooner than Obama and the Dem Congress think it will. But that won&#8217;t be enough to reinvigorate the party. We desperately need an activist base among our more economically inclined members. I think this is the key to securing victory in 2010 and 2012, but it will extend beyond that to keep the party stable with a broad appeal for years afterward.</p>
<p>We need soldiers already on the march to take advantage of that opportunity when it arrives. It will be too late to respond effectively when people begin to sour on Welfare Capitalism in large enough numbers to swing an election. Social conservatives make up a much larger proportion of the activist and volunteer base of the party than is healthy. Republican candidates can win primaries with social cons help alone. That isn&#8217;t good for the party as a whole or the economic conservatives in particular. Instead of pushing social cons out we need to bring grassroots economic cons in to the volunteer and activist culture. The tea parties are a good vehicle for this nationally, but we need local and state organization in addition to the tea parties. Not protest movements, but economic pressure groups of our own. Small business associations and chambers of commerce are the logical place to start, but they aren&#8217;t sufficient. Tax payer groups moving into aggressive recruitment would be another good vehicle.</p>
<p>I think the tea parties are best left broad and open to independents and moderate democrats, but they&#8217;re good recruiting grounds for the type of people we need. The only other thing I would say is this won&#8217;t work if we don&#8217;t pay attention to <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-good-old-boy-party/" rel="nofollow">Adam Graham&#8217;s essay today at Pajamas Media.</a> He&#8217;s got a good point and Newt was pointing up the problem indirectly on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvw4rlEy19M" rel="nofollow">C-Span this morning</a> in comments about Michael Steele&#8217;s tenure as national party chairman. Whether you agree with Steele&#8217;s attempted changes or not ( and I don&#8217;t really, his focus is all wrong) he&#8217;s still running into walls that we&#8217;re going to run into eventually so we should be thinking about how to solve this problem before we get there.</p>
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		<title>By: Rovin</title>
		<link>http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/04/30/1361-days-to-go-stop-helping-the-statists-divide-us/comment-page-1/#comment-3913</link>
		<dc:creator>Rovin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 00:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hotair.com/greenroom/?p=1337#comment-3913</guid>
		<description>Good post CK.  I don&#039;t think it will be long before fiscal/E conservatives will have a strong platform with the direction this country is taking and the spending madness our &quot;liberal friends&quot; are allowing.  Social conservatives will have no problem joining in.  It will be tough for Obama and Pelosi to refute &lt;strong&gt;actual figures&lt;/strong&gt;, and will also force the MSM to stop ignoring the reality and the level of devestating debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post CK.  I don&#8217;t think it will be long before fiscal/E conservatives will have a strong platform with the direction this country is taking and the spending madness our &#8220;liberal friends&#8221; are allowing.  Social conservatives will have no problem joining in.  It will be tough for Obama and Pelosi to refute <strong>actual figures</strong>, and will also force the MSM to stop ignoring the reality and the level of devestating debt.</p>
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