When people find out our only child was born just after my wife’s 40th birthday, I think they tend to assume we put off parenthood for career goals. Truth is, we were non-religious when we got married, split up after five years, became Christians while apart, reconciled five years after we split (without ever getting around to divorcing while we were apart), then tried for about two years to get pregnant.

My wife miscarried three times in her early-to-mid 40s after our daughter was born, so we’re comfortable that we have exactly as many children — one — as God intended for us.

God bless families!

Two articles in two days from two different sources on the Quiverfull Movement caught my eye.  Quiverfull is a movement within the Christian church that advocates no “family planning” — you get the children God decides to give, and that….

So is it only a blessing after you’ve hit your particular monetary goals, or is it always a blessing?

TexasDan on April 23, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Always, naturally. I don’t see why that precludes me from deciding when and how many.

I really don’t think God meant “Hurry up and crank out a bunch of kids – or else!” when He told us to “Be fruitful and multiply.” It was a blessing. Sheesh.

TheUnrepentantGeek on April 23, 2009 at 3:27 PM

So is it only a blessing after you’ve hit your particular monetary goals, or is it always a blessing?

To which I always answer, “Yes, and we’re very good at it.” That shuts ‘em up quick.

Heh. We have five, one on the way.

I always respond, “Yes, and we like it.”

Maggie45 on April 23, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Thank you.

TheUnrepentantGeek on April 23, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Let’s hope it works out that way for ernesto.

If you replenish your energy from solitude, you might find yourself feeling smothered.

RushBaby on April 23, 2009 at 10:41 AM

I’m a real introvert and find social situations draining. But somehow, my wife has proven an exception to pretty much all of humanity. I can be with her all day and all night and feel better for it, and I miss her when she’s gone.

Strange how that works. Not for everyone of course, but it works for me.

If young Christian conservatives want to be “pro-family,” then, they need to be getting married and having babies. And what a youth rebellion that would be, huh? “No, mother, I’ve decided against law school. As a matter of fact, Jennifer and I went to the courthouse and got married last Saturday and . . .” Strange to say that the most shocking thing a young person can do in 2009 is to get married. They can change the world one “I do” at a time.

What the heck was your point here, get married and have babies as soon as you can or you’re in sin? That it’s wrong to want to set up a decent life for yourself? We’re not mindless baby making machines. I really don’t think God meant “Hurry up and crank out a bunch of kids – or else!” when He told us to “Be fruitful and multiply.” It was a blessing. Sheesh.

The Other McCain on April 23, 2009 at 1:38 PM

I suppose…but I had that picturesque married family lots of extended family lots of little league and karate and all that jazz…and STILL wound up an extreme introvert. I suppose its the musician gene, tends to mess with parental influence

It’s a nature/nuture thing, isn’t it? I think being raised in a married-family household, with lots of siblings and close ties to extended family, free time to roam and play, tends to instill a pro-family attitude. Whereas the more common contemporary environment of childhood — single-parent households, or two-career families with 1.7 children in the isolation of the suburban cul-de-sac — tends to produce either loners, or else people who are very peer-oriented.

The Other McCain on April 23, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Makes perfect sense. Thank you for your reply.

If you are an extrovert who gains energy from the presence of other people, and your intended spouse in particular, your chances of happiness in marriage are good. If children delight you, your chances are great.

It’s a nature/nuture thing, isn’t it? I think being raised in a married-family household, with lots of siblings and close ties to extended family, free time to roam and play, tends to instill a pro-family attitude. Whereas the more common contemporary environment of childhood — single-parent households, or two-career families with 1.7 children in the isolation of the suburban cul-de-sac — tends to produce either loners, or else people who are very peer-oriented.

Well thats me. I value my solitude greatly, and honestly never felt any particular joy in being around a child.

ernesto on April 23, 2009 at 10:52 AM

I suspected as much. I’m the same way. I inflict a lot of pain on my spouse because of I can go for days without seeing another soul or uttering a single word. I wish I had considered that before I got married.

Tolerance and love keeps us together though (nine years now). I found a person secure enough to bear it, and loving enough to indulge it.

Anna on April 23, 2009 at 10:11 AM

Anna, I read every word of your post, and admire you greatly.

If you are an extrovert who gains energy from the presence of other people, and your intended spouse in particular, your chances of happiness in marriage are good. If children delight you, your chances are great.

If you replenish your energy from solitude, you might find yourself feeling smothered.

RushBaby on April 23, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Well thats me. I value my solitude greatly, and honestly never felt any particular joy in being around a child. That said, i find women irresistible. Up until they wanna start showing me off their families and getting serious. Then they arent so irresistible.

Thou shalt go to college is the first commandment of middle-classness, and the lifestyle idolators don’t consider how this inflexible attitude contributes to the flourishing of adolescent fornication. It’s very good to tell young teens that they should save sex for marriage, but . . . well, how soon can they get married?
“Oh, you’ll have to go to college, start a career and become financially stable first.”

So we should encourage kids to marry and have children young, something that would make it EVEN HARDER for working class kids to go to and finish college, in order to prevent fornication?? Statistics show that one in three of any such marriages will end in divorce and, if you have your way, children in broken homes. What great thinking.

pondering whether I’d be happy married.

ernesto on April 23, 2009 at 10:23 AM

If you are an extrovert who gains energy from the presence of other people, and your intended spouse in particular, your chances of happiness in marriage are good. If children delight you, your chances are great.

If you replenish your energy from solitude, you might find yourself feeling smothered.

Feminism killed marriage.

Men don’t need it to get sex anymore.

The laws prevent men from leaving a bad marriage without losing his livelihood and kids.

Way to go, feminists!

spec_ops_mateo on April 23, 2009 at 8:31 AM

Bingo.
No fault divorce helped RUIN the social fabric of our country.
There’s no such thing as ‘no-fault’ when it comes to getting a divorce. It’s always somebody’s fault.
Sometimes its both.
I was married at 18 & had my child at 19.
7 years later I was divorced bcs I got real tired of my husband finding his company with other women, which he found no problem with.
I would still be married to the putz if he’d been able to pull his head out of his a$$ bcs I was committed to the marriage & my family.
My husband now of almost 10yrs was the victim of ‘no fault’ divorce when his wife of 9 yrs up & left bcs she ‘didn’t love’ him anymore. Then to justify herself, she made up all sorts of stories how he abused her & so on.
We need to bring back the ‘fault’ in divorce.
Fewer people would be doing it if there were consequences.

Posting on a backwater website with a bunch of beta males and lonely housewives isn’t exactly “roaming free”.

Darth Executor on April 23, 2009 at 10:17 AM

Eh, I can’t get paid to play guitar and wax eloquent about society now can i? So work I must. That my job affords me both sustaining funds and the time to wax not so eloquent about society with beta males and lonely housewives is about all that keeps me sane

That and I was being a bit facetious. While I have gypsy blood and a strong affinity for Flamenco, my wandering involves mainly just Manhattan and pondering whether I’d be happy married.

“Don’t you know what causes that?”

Obviously.

God is neither in favor of, or opposed to, someone getting married.

Bobbertsan on April 23, 2009 at 9:25 AM

You’re technically correct, but missing the forest for the trees. Paul’s context is that the unmarried will be unencumbered to carry out ministry, serve others, etc. He didn’t say “don’t get married so you can party more.”

ernesto on April 23, 2009 at 10:05 AM

Posting on a backwater website with a bunch of beta males and lonely housewives isn’t exactly “roaming free”.

The Other McCain on April 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM

Thank you. And yes, that college thing irks me. I managed to graduate valedictorian of my class at a trade school, while juggling his job, my class, and three kids – it wasn’t easy, but it made me appreciate what I accomplished even more.

I’m still shocked someone read my post!

You know how to end it? Get married!

The Other McCain on April 23, 2009 at 9:44 AM

I was a gypsy in a past life, I’ve got to get over the urge to roam and be free first.

As a 22 year old who’s had the same sweetheart for 6 years now, let me personally say that the “when’s the wedding” bit gets tired quick

You know how to end it? Get married!

TTheoLogan on April 23, 2009 at 9:12 AM

There’s nothing about the nature of American government that need be anti-gay. While I will no longer argue with those who appose abortion (though most don’t have the stomach to take opposition to abortion to its logical conclusion), the gay issue really has very little to do with federal government or even state government given the principle of incorporation. Government is not a cultural enforcer, and in the lamentable event it is forced to be such an enforcer, all American citizens must be given its equal protection.

Period.

If government is a steward of the cultural tradition of marriage, then it must provide equal protection to each citizen. If government writes laws that distinguish between married and unmarried couples in terms of tax filing, adoption, estate planning, whatever, it must provide equal protection to all.

So sure, insist upon religious or cultural principles as the bedrock of your governing philosophy, but its a double edged sword.

God commanded man to “be fruitful and multiply.” This commandment has never been repealed or amended

And we obeyed it, there are more than six billion people here now. So what’s the problem?

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry . . .

St. Paul also said this:

27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. I Corinthians 7:27

God is neither in favor of, or opposed to, someone getting married.

And for my fellow Christian conservatives: we haven’t got a moral leg to stand on. Our divorce rate is identical to the national average.–Laura

Millions of folks who don’t follow Jesus call themselves Christians.
Better studies show that couples who pray together daily are much less likely to divorce. Ditto for couples who serve in church ministry together. BTW, my wife & I do both.

Go ahead and make the republican plank pro-gay, and while you’re at it, pro-abortion.

I promise you the conservative christians will no longer vote for you at all, and you’ll never win the election again. You guys don’t get it. You can’t motivate people who have biblical beliefs just by things regarding money. I can tell you I know tons upon tons of people that you will lose in future elections.

So please, continue the ed morrisey nonsense(which he got from someone else) of taking the government out of marriage, or being pro-gay marriage, etc.

Have fun with your nominal party.

When’s the wedding?

Al in St. Lou on April 23, 2009 at 7:55 AM

I suppose if theres not a ring on her finger she’ll get fed up so probably in a year or two

What galls me is the anti-child atmosphere nowadays. We have 3 kids (including a set of twins), and we’d love to have another. We aren’t really in a position to have another right this minute, but the door is not shut. However, mention this to my (devout Lutheran) in-laws, and they rant about how they’ll kill my husband if I get pregnant, and how they don’t ‘need’ any more grandchildren. We even hear from other members of their church about how we’re too young to have so many kids – how are we going to pay for college/cars/etc for not only them, but for ourselves. We’re 26/27! How is that too young? There are only so many times that I can retort with “We’re old enough/it’s our family/you can take out loans for college, but not for retirement!” before I have to run to the bathroom to cry.

I come at this from a non-religious angle – although I understand where you’re coming from (and agree). There is a dangerous mentality among young people today – everything centers around their personal gratification. Now, I know Tim and I are different, with our military background, but I’ve learned some basic lessons that are applicable to others our age. It is possible to get married/have children at a young age and be able to attend school/work/achieve life goals. It takes a bit of work, patience, some serious soul searching, and sacrifice – something most young people abhor. Can’t go out clubbing all night when you have a job and small children at home (unless you live off adrenaline!). We all need to work together to teach our children that material possessions and disposable income do not bring happiness, and that there are many routes to personal success, college only being one of them.

I didn’t mean to rant, but as someone who has gotten a lot of flak for being married at my age, it’s something I have a bit of an opinion on.