GOP debate open thread: Republicans just love South Carolina… at least for this week

posted at 8:01 pm on February 13, 2016 by Jazz Shaw

Tonight the endless campaign marches on southward to South Carolina, where the remaining six GOP candidates will debate yet again. They’re playing to a new audience this time, though. (Granted.. in 2016 you’re always playing to a national audience, but they’re trying to win over the locals here and they have one week to do it.) We’re definitely moving into some new turf here and the candidates will all have to adjust. Iowa and New Hampshire, while different in their own ways, are both largely white, northern or Midwestern enclaves with small populations and a lot of rural ground to cover. This next stop is a whole ‘nother ballgame which could get a bit more nasty while requiring a delicate touch. Kathleen Parker predicts there will be blood in South Carolina.

Out on the hustings, people often ask me: “Can you explain South Carolina?”

I just shake my head.

It’s complicated, I say.

The simple answer, eternal and everlasting, is anti-secessionist James Petigru’s remark: “South Carolina is too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum.”

I’ve heard plenty about Minnesota Nice, but I get the impression that South Carolina Nice is a slightly different creature. The Donald has taken to holding off on the expletives because it puts some of the voters off. So how does he get his message across? It has to be something that sells for the locals… tough but not too harsh. We may be seeing some of that in the dueling campaign ads that are running. The polls from just the past week show that we’re looking at a battle – yet again – between Trump and Cruz. This should be a fairly natural constituency for Cruz, but Donald is well out in front, 36 to 20. This sets us up for a slug fest.. or does it? In the past they’ve been quite cordial toward each other on the stage, but this time could be different. Those ads blaring at the South Carolina primary voters certainly look that way anyhow. (Bloomberg)

By Friday, fliers paid for by “Cruz for President” appeared in mailboxes attacking Trump’s support of eminent domain. “Donald Trump will stomp on your property rights,” it declared against an illustration of the billionaire real estate mogul stomping on a suburban house. The flier echoed a 60-second Cruz campaign television ad that began earlier this week slamming Trump on the same issue.

But don’t worry, Trump hasn’t been sitting on his hands.

Trump fired back on Friday with a tweet threatening to file a lawsuit against Cruz. “If @TedCruz doesn’t clean up his act, stop cheating, & doing negative ads, I have standing to sue him for not being a natural born citizen,” Trump tweeted.

At least one observer thinks it could be worse than that, with the Trump – Cruz showdown becoming the ugliest one yet.

Cruz spokesman Rick Tyler said the candidate would be “prepared” for Trump, whose campaign he dismissed as unserious. “This is the Seinfeld candidacy,” he said. “It’s a campaign about nothing.”

The escalation of the conflict between the two leading candidates for the Republican nomination comes as they contest a state that has refined the political dirty trick to a fine art and where the mogul is accusing a “dishonest” Cruz of orchestrating anti-Trump robocalls.

At the same time, Rubio and Jeb Bush are fighting it out on the airwaves. Jeb! went so far as to use the The P Word describing Marco. (That’s “phony.” Get your mind out of the gutter.) These two may be locked in a battle for third place and the right to go on to Nevada, at least if you listen to all the pundits. But seriously, does anyone honestly see either of them dropping out next weekend if they don’t take third? Each has significant money left and they both seem to believe that they are the eventual Establishment Lane Candidate of Destiny. They have to keep believing that the other will drop out or run out of cash sooner or later.

That leaves us with Kasich and Carson. I don’t know how much of a cash bump Kasich got out of his runner up showing in New Hampshire, but if this new ARG poll is close to accurate his jump in support was significant. (Maybe they really like the happy, nice guy approach down there?) I’ll want to see more of these repeating before I buy into it fully, but the guy could be on the rise leaving perhaps nobody dropping out. I only say that because there doesn’t seem to be any sort of news or advice that’s convincing Ben Carson that he’s missed the train. Just yesterday he told Politico that he had raised another two million just since February 1st giving him the ability to keep fighting or, as they put it, to wait for a miracle.

One last thing to consider as we wait for the curtain to go up… how much do looks count? At least according to some eggheads, more than we might even imagine. In fact, your reaction to the performance of the candidates may all come down to your orbitofrontal cortex. (WSJ)

It’s all window-dressing, you might say; only the candidates’ positions matter. But in politics, looks count more than we care to admit.

Indeed, we often clinch our political decisions a split-second after we see a candidate and don’t change them much over time. In a 2006 study published in Psychological Science and led by Alexander Todorov of Princeton University, subjects who selected favorites after a brief glance at snapshots of unfamiliar candidates were able to predict who would win nearly 70% of the 2004 Senate and House races. When the researchers gave people more time to decide, they simply confirmed their first impressions.

In another study, published in 2008 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Prof. Todorov and colleague Nikolaas Oosterof digitally manipulated people’s facial features in photos, revealing just what makes us fall so hard for a candidate. They showed that a rounded, baby-faced appearance with prominent cheekbones, arched inner eyebrows and a sunny demeanor makes a person seem trustworthy.

Baby faced with prominent cheekbones? How the heck is Rubio not in first place by a mile?

DebateABC


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 25 26 27

bluefox on February 14, 2016 at 11:07 AM

H/T Schad sometime last night!!

bluefox on February 14, 2016 at 11:15 AM

Paid Hillary activist alert.

Rix on February 14, 2016 at 11:12 AM

Point prover alert.

*grow up*

Mimzey on February 14, 2016 at 11:17 AM

Trump is and will continue to redefine everything while at the same time attracting a very broad, working class spectrum.

TexasDude on February 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM

You could say the same thing about rap music. That doesn’t mean its actually any good! :)

Mimzey on February 14, 2016 at 11:20 AM

It is suiting that we honor Scalia. He was an originalist. He believed that our Constitution should be interpreted by reading the words as our founders understood them. Our founders understood Islam to be a religion and intended the 1st to protect its practice. There is no room for debate about that from an originalist perspective.

MJBrutus on February 14, 2016 at 11:08 AM

Our difference is about the founders’ understanding of the nature of Islam, not of the word “religion.”

I’ll give you it is possible that even if they understood what Islam was (a political doctrine rather than a religion), they might have left the first the way it is because they considered Islam such a rarity in America that it could be safely ignored for the time being. If it ever needed to be identified as a political doctrine rather than a religion, then the Constitution could be easily amended.

If so, they really screwed us in the name of simplicity. It will probably take nuclear bombs going off in our cities before people like you finally recognize what Islam really is, and by then it will likely be far too late.

fadetogray on February 14, 2016 at 11:26 AM

Throwing money at the problem tends to solve it, so I’d suggest we estimate “better” in bang-for-the-buck terms. I happened to live in a country with single-payer system, and it’s called Israel. I wouldn’t complain about local medicine. The only problem there was extreme cost of medications not available through “covered basket”, but you have an exactly same problem here with drugs explicitly not covered by the insurance.

Rix on February 14, 2016 at 11:12 AM

I did, too, in Austria. I was a freelancer, and since I couldn’t afford the monthly premium I wasn’t insured at all for about two years. In a single-payer country. But the healthcare was really good. No complaints. I just couldn’t afford it :-)

These are the “small” details they don’t tell you when they praise single payer.

I did my own research at the time of the Obamacare debates and found out that the percentage of the uninsured isn’t that much lower in single payer countries than it is in the US. It’s just that they hide this fact in single payer countries.

Gelsomina on February 14, 2016 at 11:27 AM

Mimzey on February 14, 2016 at 10:52 AM

That was my point, you failed to see it.

Jason58 on February 14, 2016 at 11:32 AM

fadetogray on February 14, 2016 at 11:26 AM

We disagree beyond that. Our founders knew good and well about Islam. Do some research on the topic. Islam has not changed much over the past 200 years. Nor the past 500. Nor the past 1000. And that is its problem.

MJBrutus on February 14, 2016 at 11:40 AM

MJBrutus on February 14, 2016 at 11:08 AM

The one thing that seems to be constantly left out of the argument is that the Founders put in ways for the Constitution to change through legislation. But the president(not just Obama) and far too many judges don’t seem to like the time, the chance of not getting exactly what they want or the possibility that the people might disagree altogether(through their elected representation), seem to ignore that process.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 11:48 AM

rump did offer a fair market compensation, which is the basis for eminent-domain requisitions. In fact, he quadrupled it to sweeten the deal. It was the crucial element missing in Kelo. Too bad the woman was holding out for more.

Rix on February 14, 2016 at 7:10 AM

You neither under eminent domain nor Kelo.

Justice Scalia dissented in Kelo.

He compared what the majority were permitting to the Dred Scot decision.

You really are a Trumpser Diver.

You will take a dive regardless of what Trump does.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 11:56 AM

…people evolve….billionaires do too!

JugEarsButtHurt on February 14, 2016 at 12:00 PM

Sigh, the Founders themselves were split on a lot of things. Alexander Hamilton favored a strong national government involved in world affairs, Washington did believe we should be as involved in world affairs, Jefferson believed in a small, national government with strong state governments, yet in office took the fight to the Muslims in Tripoli.

Sigh.

TexasDude on February 14, 2016 at 12:01 PM

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 11:48 AM

Exactly. That is why originalism need never go out of style :-)

Anachronisms that posterity needed to change could be accommodated. It just isn’t easy, by intent.

MJBrutus on February 14, 2016 at 12:03 PM

MJBrutus on February 14, 2016 at 12:03 PM

That begs the question, if originalism need never go out of style, why has it? Why was Justice Scalia such a singular giant on the Court? I must conclude that it is more important to be liked or powerful than to follow the oath taken by all of these people. So many obviously break that oath daily.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM

You guys do realise that she is not saying that Ted is god or something, doncha?
Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 3:16 AM

That photoshop has little to do with Mrs. Cruz’s statement; I linked it from that just because it was a good intro to it.

Nope, I did the photoshop because of the general creepiness of the Cruz family’s ‘faith’ You get around a lot; surely you heard a few months ago Cruz’s father saying that Eduardo was sent to earth by God to lead us pagans and idolators into the light (Words to that effect, not a quote.)

And from that statement, I started noticing Cruz’s ‘Jesus like poses’ and the family’s proselytizing in an ‘Elmer Gantry’ type hectoring… A few months ago, someone did a photoshop of Cruz’s face onto Burt Lancaster’s body in a revival scene from the movie, and I chuckled at it… As time passed, observing the way the Cruz Campaign used Religion, it went beyond hucksterism into pure creepiness, while pulling very unchristian dirty tricks that reminded me more of Robert Mitchum’s Harry Powell from Night of the Hunter than it did Elmer Gantry.

LegendHasIt on February 14, 2016 at 12:09 PM

LegendHasIt on February 14, 2016 at 12:09 PM

He uses religion because a lot of people feel that the worlds turn away from it has caused most of the problems we now encounter. If that’s not your belief, fine but he is speaking to a large part of the voting population. Why is it any smarter to ignore them than the secular?

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:12 PM

TexasDude on February 14, 2016 at 12:01 PM

But that is why we have elections and representation. People who thwart the will of the people should be cast from office but we can’t do that because it is racist or sexist or hateful. So we keep getting what we deserve.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:14 PM

Throwing money at the problem tends to solve it, so I’d suggest we estimate “better” in bang-for-the-buck terms. I happened to live in a country with single-payer system, and it’s called Israel. I wouldn’t complain about local medicine. The only problem there was extreme cost of medications not available through “covered basket”, but you have an exactly same problem here with drugs explicitly not covered by the insurance.

Rix on February 14, 2016 at 11:12 AM

Throwing money at the problem tends to solve it? Like when Labour threw billions and billions at the NHS and only made it worse? Have you ever seen the cancer, heart disease, and diabetes survival rates in the UK as compared to other OECD countries?

And, Trump thinks Scotland’s single-payer healthcare system is great because his buddy got fantastic care???

LOLZ.

Of all of the NHS systems, Scotland’s is the absolute worse. It is block-granted funds and the Scot Nats run it. The system is a disgrace. A boy born in some areas of Glasgow has a life-expectancy rate that is 27 years LOWER on average than a similarly-situated boy in England. In fact, the Scottish boy is likely to die before a boy growing up in India or the Philippines.

It’s awful and the entire system across the UK still sucks terribly.

Universal health insurance =/= universal healthcare.

A few years ago, private German facilities offered the Brown government about $8 billion to treat the patients that had been on waiting lists for a year or more; provided, the government or patients pay for the traveling expenses and accommodations. That’s how bad it was and still is.

The Junior Doctors just went on strike. This isn’t the first strike by doctors. There have been strikes where patients were literally left on the operating tables when the physicians walked out.

Did you know that the UK also has ‘universal dental care’? LOLZ. That’s why even people sealed off in the jungles of Africa or Southeast Asia make jokes about the teeth of the British…because that universal dental care ensure that our pearly whites are kept pearly white. ///

Several years ago, an Afghan war vet needed several root canals after serving multiple tours. He was wait-listed. Of course, during that lengthy period, his dental condition worsened. Finally, he pulled 14 or 16 (I can’t remember the exact number off the top of my head, but the story garnered wide coverage and is available online) of his own teeth with a pair of pliers.

The NHS and single-payer systems are hideous and one of the reasons that I no longer wanted to be part of the UK. Between the welfare state and the Islamisation, it has become a country I didn’t recognise and that was in the 1990s.

Yes, so Donald Trump’s friend lucked out. I bet you he was wealthy or Trump pulled some strings. The NHS is mortified of big names with global telly access exposing not only its flaws, but its horrors.

I’ll say this for Trump’s friend: Thank goodness that he got attention while in hospital; otherwise, he might have been left to drink the water from his flower vase and died of neglect and starvation, as many, many Brits already have.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:24 PM

LegendHasIt on February 14, 2016 at 12:09 PM

I never saw your photoshop, as I declined to open your link. There was no reason for me to do so. I’ve heard the same Elmer Gantry comparisons and ‘Cruz has a Messiah-complex’ on site after site made by Trump and Rubio supporters.

As I said, I understand what she was saying and, perhaps, you believe the country is better off now that it has turned away from God or, at least for atheists like me, the Judeo-Christian values and traditions upon which she was built, but I don’t.

Many of you say that Ted is a ‘fake’ Christian.

How about a Lincoln-Douglas style debate on one subject alone: Christianity between Cruz and the guy, who believes, for one thing, that the Seventh Commandment doesn’t apply to him in any way, shape, or form?

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:30 PM

Mr. Trump, either Sen. Cruz is eligible or not and you should want to know. File the lawsuit regardless if Cruz kisses your hindquarters.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:30 PM

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:12 PM

It isn’t that he uses religion, it is the WAY he uses it, while pulling dirty tricks (like the ‘voting Violation mailer in Iowa, and the “Check Enclosed” mailer used nation-wide) that bothers me..
I actually liked the way that Santorum, Ben Carson, etc… … heck, and even the huckster Huckabee use it. The way Cruz does, creeps me out.

This is a recent development with me… Cruz is the only one I sent money to, although since then, I have learned and understood more about the person behind the facade and wish I could get it back (the money and the trust).

LegendHasIt on February 14, 2016 at 12:31 PM

You guys can share ‘my little wafer with my little wine’ afterwards.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:31 PM

LegendHasIt on February 14, 2016 at 12:31 PM

If you want to fight, religion and politics is the way to go, because no one agrees but everyone demands that their pure path is the criteria. You, of course, must use your vote as you see fit.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:31 PM

You spelled whine wrong.

cozmo on February 14, 2016 at 12:38 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:30 PM

Preach is Limey my dear. I have been trying to tell folks this for years but no one listens. I have an uncle in the U.K. i have heard and seen the horror that is NHS. but everyone seems to be determined to believe single payer works.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 12:39 PM

Rightwingers complaining about the use of religion is hysterical when the Democrats campaign in churches at the same time they try to dissolve religious liberty. And no one bats an eye. You can’t make this stuff up.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:40 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:24 PM

Thank you for educating me about the NHS/single payer systems.

Thank goodness you left when you did to avoid those systems, but sorry certain powers that be want those same systems to crawl through our back door.

I am grateful every time you post that you are here and became an American. {{{HUGS}}}

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 12:41 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:30 PM

i for one think we are worse off now that the country is leaving its Judeo-Christian values in the dust. I do believe that organized religion does have it’s problems and the Catholic church does have it’s issues. But the basic morals taught by the Church are what allowed us to become what we are in the first place, and we are already seeing the after effects of its denial. Mostly in the urban areas but it is trickling outwards and it is scary to see.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 12:45 PM

I believe Trump thinks he can take a hit in SC and still win. In my humble opinion, I believe attacking W last night was for future states and their independents. It could also have been aimed at independents and democrats in the General. If this is true, he is a very gutsy guy and forward thinker.

Guest1.1 on February 14, 2016 at 12:50 PM

Donald J. Trump Verified account
[email protected]

Ted Cruz is a cheater! He holds the Bible high and then lies and misrepresents the facts!

7:13 PM – 13 Feb 2016

Anyone see the irony? This tweet from the man who believes the Seventh Commandment doesn’t apply to him.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:58 PM

I bet you he was wealthy or Trump pulled some strings. The NHS is mortified of big names with global telly access exposing not only its flaws, but its horrors.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:24 PM

That is what I mean by a two tier system. The wealthy get just fine healthcare in all systems, even socialized.

Here in the states you get pretty much the same quality of health care in your group plan as the wealthy can pay out of “pocket change”.

As I have mentioned from time to time I have a second family in King’s Lynn and they are okay with NHS/NICE. Don’t care to argue the quality of care in the UK as when I worked there, I traveled home for health care and I self pay.

I have family/friends that use Medicare and they like it; I have a sister-in-law who used Medicaid to cover expenses related to breast cancer and she was fine with the quality of care; none of my friend are happy with coverage from the VA.

When I worked with the BBC covering of all things curling, they seemed to like their care.

When it comes to health care, everybody has a story. Me, self pay.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 12:58 PM

Anyone see the irony? This tweet from the man who believes the Seventh Commandment doesn’t apply to him.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:58 PM

That leaves some wiggle room. Chuckle. Are you a lawyer!

You, like a bunch of folks, have gotten inspired this election. Passion is good and honest opinions (like yours) in a public forum are good for the process.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:04 PM

The dreaded three in a row. I am thawing out from working in the garden this morning.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:05 PM

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 12:58 PM

i have been self pay for the last 3 years , Just got my full coverage insurance back on Jan 1. Self pay is a lot harder when you have an illness like mine. One that requires constant monitoring by a slew of doctors. At one point the hubby got down sized and lost his job and for a brief period (4 months) we had to get assistance because unemployment just didn’t cover everything , at that point i got medicaid.

Trust me it does not even come close to self pay or full coverage insurance. There is a lot of stuff that they flat out just do not cover. Fybromyalgia meds being one of them. had to pay 600 a month for those out of pocket or go without. They would pay for gabapentin but even on a maxed out dose of that after “proving” it was not working for me they would not pay for anything different.

I truly was grateful for the help don’t get me wrong, i am just trying to point out that single payer has a whole host of problems that are never really going to be fixable. Now i have Anthem and my Fybro meds cost me 23.00 dollars a month that is a VAST improvement and a huge difference.

The one thing that ticked me off was that the selection of insurance i had to choose from here in FL available to us when not job funded was severely limited and unafordable in the extreme. I think the idea of opening up the market to allow for portable insurance is a great idea. Make the insurance companies compete with each other the way other businesses do and the costs will of necessity come down. Maybe not hugely but at this point even 50 dollars a week in savings would be preferable to what we have now.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:16 PM

You, like a bunch of folks, have gotten inspired this election. Passion is good and honest opinions (like yours) in a public forum are good for the process.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:04 PM

Good morning, HL.

One of the best things about Lime is her passion for all topics not just elections.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 1:20 PM

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:16 PM

Self pay is not for everybody and to be honest, I have group insurance. Somebody has to pay and with so much care being un-reimbursed, private insurance carries most of that burden. National competition would help, but with government dictating coverage and types of plans, I only see the way to lower health care costs is through rationing.

Group policies were set by the states prior to O-Care, thus the lack of competition has been going on for quite a long time. As you know individual polices were treated differently.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:28 PM

One of the best things about Lime is her passion for all topics not just elections.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 1:20 PM

Pucker up baby. Afternoon 31.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:30 PM

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:28 PM

They should have let all sorts of people form groups to take advantage of those types of policies.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 1:32 PM

Self pay is not for everybody and to be honest, I have group insurance. Somebody has to pay and with so much care being un-reimbursed, private insurance carries most of that burden. National competition would help, but with government dictating coverage and types of plans, I only see the way to lower health care costs is through rationing.

Group policies were set by the states prior to O-Care, thus the lack of competition has been going on for quite a long time. As you know individual polices were treated differently.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:28 PM

You’re preaching to the choir lovey. ~ rolls eyes~ I have been complaining for Years about group policies being treated differently than private ones. And i was very vocal about O-Care and my objections to it. the Bus stop Moms rolled their eyes at me until they got the first shock… when they didnt get to keep their Dr or when they couldnt get little jimmies meds etc. Now they listen and are actually starting to become as vocal as me.

I have been pestering various congress critters by snail mail and by email for years about allowing the free markets to sort private insurance to no avail. Maybe now it will actually happen.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:36 PM

Pucker up baby. Afternoon 31.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:30 PM

*giggles*
{{{You}}} have a knack for that… giggle making commentary… among important stuff.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 1:39 PM

They should have let all sorts of people form groups to take advantage of those types of policies.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 1:32 PM

they should and to be honest i think i read something somewhere about a few places who are doing just that. some kind of commune thingy you can join (not the hippie lets all live in one house commune)

there just is not one in my area that i could take advantage of. If there had been i would have jumped on it with both feet so to speak. going without my meds is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Without them i am so severely limited in what i can do it is pathetic. I literally spent weeks stuck in my bed at one point because i couldn’t move without hurting myself even more. This is most definitely a major point of interest for my family. Health care is more important than a lot of people realize and it isn’t something to treat like a talking point. Wish the pols would actually listen to us about it.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:42 PM

They should have let all sorts of people form groups to take advantage of those types of policies.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 1:32 PM

Greetings, Miss Cindy.
Hasn’t it been shown that there as many (if not more) people uninsured with bamscare as there
were prior to bamscare?

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 1:46 PM

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:42 PM

We do everything stupidly. Why can’t colleges get group rates. Why not the Lions Club or the Shriners? They had a real chance to making some real free market gains but no, they want everyone to have a Cadillac plan. My son is a full time student, and I am sure that he qualifies for all kinds of “subsidizes” but as I understand it, you have to pay up front and get reimbursed. Pretty tough to do when you don’t have any money. And our state didn’t expand Medicaid. I love Washington./

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 1:49 PM

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 1:46 PM

I don’t know for sure but I think that do those numbers as the do unemployment. If you are on Medicaid I think they count that as insured.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 1:51 PM

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:36 PM

Funny how life is. I was having a beer and playing/practicing Lenny by SRV and I realized I was rude by not telling you…so sorry about your health issues. I kinda got caught up in the nuts and bolts of the discussion.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:53 PM

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 1:49 PM

like i said i think some states are allowing community group plans now. I would have to look it up again to tell you which ones though. But of course Florida is not one of them . And yeah the Shriners and other large groups should qualify. like i said i agree our pols are stupid

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:54 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaYBepvg2dU

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:01 PM

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:54 PM

Good for any state that is thinking outside of the box. About time.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 2:05 PM

like i said i think some states are allowing community group plans now. I would have to look it up again to tell you which ones though. But of course Florida is not one of them . And yeah the Shriners and other large groups should qualify. like i said i agree our pols are stupid

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 1:54 PM

Good morning, Miss Katee. (still morn in CA)
My 65 year old recently divorced sister with Fybro (and other issues) has been going
through heck in finding help with insurance and a doctor. So far there isn’t any medicine
that helps her (or the side effects are really bad for her) and the pain excruciating.
I’m sorry that you and so many others with Fybro are going thru the same thing.
The amazing thing about you and my sister is that you don’t give up and fight it.
Prayers for you and your family.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:09 PM

I bet you he was wealthy or Trump pulled some strings. The NHS is mortified of big names with global telly access exposing not only its flaws, but its horrors.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:24 PM

That is what I mean by a two tier system. The wealthy get just fine healthcare in all systems, even socialized.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 12:58 PM

It’s not even really a two-tier system any longer. It’s a three-tier plus system. In fact, the US and UK systems are moving closer and closer towards one anothers.

There’s the average person, who gets ‘average’ care at the NHS, which is below-average care in the States – that is, it ‘is’ until Obamacare/HillaryCare/BernieCare or some other sort fully kicks in.

There’s the above-average or lucky person (like Trump’s friend), who gets ‘above-average’ care, which is normal care in the US – same caveat above applies here.

Then, there is the private care system: Does anyone actually believe that HRH Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge gave birth to her little prince and princess in the NHS system? No. She had both of her children at the same place HRH Diana, Princess of Wales, gave birth to Kate’s husband, HRH Prince William, the Duke of Cambridge: The Lindo Wing of St Mary’s Hospital.

When the ‘Father of Britain’s National Health Service’, Clement Attlee, who was elected Prime Minister in 1945 after the country dumped Sir Winston Churchill following his steady, inspiring, unparalleled leadership, and victory in World War II, required hospitalisation, did he go to Great Ormond Street Hospital? No. He was bedded in The Lindo Wing, the private part of St Mary’s Hospital. The public section is now known as St Mary’s Hospital NHS and is operated by the
Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust.

Now, I don’t know how much was charged per night at The Lindo Wing when Attlee was there (or believe it or not when I was born…I suppose my mum might remember, but I doubt it. She gave birth to her children at the same place her mother and grandmum had. It was just ‘where one went’), but I do know what it costs now: £5,200 to £10,000 depending upon whether one chooses just a ‘private’ room or an entire suite. Each room has en suite facilities, comes with impeccable amenities and design, individually-assigned staff, a 24-hour chef to make meals of any kind to order (vegan, halal, kosher, etc), and the very best obstetricians, who are on staff at all times. The prices quoted are for a 24-hour stay. Each additional 24-hour stay is an added, but somewhat reduced, charge. The NHS does not pay for anything. It will not even deduct from the total expenses that associated with a normal birth at a NHS facility. Obviously, this doesn’t matter to the people that seek out The Lindo Wing and facilities like it. They are typically royals, aristocrats, celebrities, foreign potentates and oligarchs, and upper and upper middle-class families willing to pay for the par excellence treatment.

It is not just portions of hospitals that are privatised. Harley Street is famous and well-known as the home of extremely expensive, private practitioners, who treat the ‘posh and privileged’. Suffice it to say, the Left hates the fact that Harley even exists whilst the upper/upper-middle classes and fashionable sets, not to mention the WAGs/SWAGs/Performers/Katie Price(rs), would swoon upon their fainting couches if this best-of-the-best-for-the-best-of-the-best private medical nirvana were ever to disappear or be forced onto the NHS. The Ecclestone sisters, and the Rothschild, Goldsmith, Guinness, and myriad other society families would have to board their private jets and fly to Switzerland or Manhattan for just a regular check-up.

Finally, there’s the ‘Plus’ system. HM The Queen does not go to hospital…unless it is for a ribbon-cutting or some such function. She has her own private medical staff who travel and treat her wherever she is. IIRC, the same was true for the late Queen Mother. I believe it may also be the same for HRH Charles, Prince of Wales. On the other hand, I believe that HRH Prince Philip has been hospitalised in recent years and not simply treated at any of the royal residences. Other members of the nobility are known to use the ‘Plus’ system.

So, even though, there is a two-tier system relative to who pays, that system is further broken down based upon status, wealth, power, and access…just as it is in the United States.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:11 PM

Rightwingers complaining about the use of religion is hysterical when the Democrats campaign in churches at the same time they try to dissolve religious liberty. And no one bats an eye. You can’t make this stuff up.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 12:40 PM

You sure can’t. Where is the separation of state and church, from either side?

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM

The SC evangelicals will shock you. They are not the sheeple even the right assume them to be.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:19 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:11 PM

Thanks for explaining what I was trying to say. I owe you and great post. We should all be thankful for the time you spend to inform.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:21 PM

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:53 PM

no worries. i try to ignore my health issues as a general rule. if i dwell it gets depressing. so i attempt to act like they don’t exist whenever possible. doesn’t always work but at least i don’t get depressed! hehe.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:24 PM

Group policies were set by the states prior to O-Care, thus the lack of competition has been going on for quite a long time. As you know individual polices were treated differently.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 1:28 PM

Do you know why?

It was because of the McCarran–Ferguson Act, which Democrat-controlled Congress passed in 1945, after the Supreme Court ruled in United States v South-Eastern Underwriters Association, 322 U.S. 533 (1944) that the Federal government COULD regulate insurance through the Commerce Clause.

They wanted their buddies in the states to regulate and set insurance prices.

Of course, Democrats would argue that along the lines of South-Eastern decades later in passing Obamacare.

How’s that for irony?

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:24 PM

Where is the separation of state and church, from either side?

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM

Church and steak?

I went to a tent revival with some cute Baptist chick, who I later married, and they serves BBQ. They believed in the separation of steak and church that night.

All I gots on that subject. Me at a tent revival on the side of the road in a field? Hey, the chick was cute.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:26 PM

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM

The words “separation of Church and State” do not appear in the Constitution. There is no reason why either side can’t talk about religion. My comment was about the inequity, not the practice.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 2:26 PM

ofg so off topic but my hubby just got home from work and i said happy velentines and went to give him a kiss and he said he gave up kissing for Lent… the Bastaga isn’t even Catholic! ( I am so he was basically making fun of me)

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:26 PM

The SC evangelicals will shock you. They are not the sheeple even the right assume them to be.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:19 PM

That’s because the MSM calls ever Christian in South Carolina an Evangelical.

A black member of the Mount Zion AME Church? Evangelical.

A white member of the Main Street Baptist Church? Evangelical.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:27 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:24 PM

Thanks again. Then in ’64 we got the wonderful Katzenbach v. McClung.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM

That’s because the MSM calls ever Christian in South Carolina an Evangelical.

A black member of the Mount Zion AME Church? Evangelical.

A white member of the Main Street Baptist Church? Evangelical.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:27 PM

that is sooo true. and most of us don’t agree on anything . the baptists hate the Catholics and tell us we are going to hell and vice versa. its stupid.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:29 PM

that is sooo true. and most of us don’t agree on anything . the baptists hate the Catholics and tell us we are going to hell and vice versa. its stupid.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:29 PM

I dig all chicks folks of faith.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:31 PM

I dig all chicks folks of faith.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:31 PM

hehe good for you. It isn’t easy these days to be publicly Christian. Yet i refuse to allow anyone to tell me what to believe or when to believe.My relationship with God is what gives me the strength to face all of the challenges in my life. The hubby laughs at me alot he claims to be an atheist but he isnt really.He is just angry at God. We lost one of our 6 boys and it was hard on all of us but he went from believing to “not” because of it. And yet he still tells me every time i turn around that i should pray about something because as he puts it every time i pray things get better.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:38 PM

ofg so off topic but my hubby just got home from work and i said happy velentines and went to give him a kiss and he said he gave up kissing for Lent… the Bastaga isn’t even Catholic! ( I am so he was basically making fun of me)

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:26 PM

LOL. Shudda told him you gave up sex for Lent. ; )

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:39 PM

LOL. Shudda told him you gave up sex for Lent. ; )

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:39 PM

Yea, Lent starts two weeks after the honeymoon and lasts….geez so long I can’t remember.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:40 PM

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:39 PM

he wouldn’t buy it lol. I get grumpy with him if its been more than 2 days i wouldnt survive 40 and he knows it lol. but now that i think about it i should have said i gave up cooking for lent… THAT would have gotten a reaction out of him.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:41 PM

I dig all chicks folks of faith.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:31 PM

FIFY

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:42 PM

he wouldn’t buy it lol. I get grumpy with him if its been more than 2 days i wouldnt survive 40 and he knows it lol.
katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:41 PM

Just shut up! I mean close your mouth. I mean…….best I shut up.

Chuckle

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:44 PM

i married a man with 19″ biceps… i cant help myself….

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:46 PM

Yea, Lent starts two weeks after the honeymoon and lasts….geez so long I can’t remember.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:40 PM

*sad sigh*
… for some people.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:47 PM

Where is the separation of state and church, from either side?

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM

That doctrine was not recognised by the Supreme Court until Everson v Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947).

Why am I supposed to get upset when Democrats and many black preachers do it every Sunday and Martin Luther King Holiday? Furthermore, the tax exempt status ruling is just that a rule ordered by LBJ to silence dissent.

If you want to get into a frenzy about this, whatever you do, I beg you, please do not act like the Left and cite Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists. Not only are they mischaracterising and lying about it, they try to convince LIVs that it is some kind of controlling document. Jefferson’s Letter is just that: A letter. It was no more controlling law than Vattel’s The Law of Nations.

If you want to read a Supreme Court decision that will not only explain the history of religion in the United States, but outright states that ‘The United States is a Christian nation’, along with citing variations of the constitutions of the states going back over a century, then peruse:

Church of the Holy Trinity v United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892)

It will absolutely curl the hair of some people…even if they are completely bald.

[For additional fun, read Vidal v Girard’s Executors, 43 U.S. 2 How. 127 (1844)]

As for me, I just shrug. I don’t try to rewrite history. I despise revisionist history, which is why I named my blog, Predictable History, Unpredictable Past.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:49 PM

he wouldn’t buy it lol. I get grumpy with him if its been more than 2 days i wouldnt survive 40 and he knows it lol. but now that i think about it i should have said i gave up cooking for lent… THAT would have gotten a reaction out of him.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:41 PM

Good thing you didn’t marry a military person who goes on 6+ months of deployments.
Cooking… men and their stomachs!

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:51 PM

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:51 PM

eh i think its more that i actually cook. i make homemade breads and cinnamon rolls by hand, homemade beef stew etc… my family will NOT be eating processed crap or fast food tyvm. i know that isnt for everyone but i enjoy cooking so it doesnt bother me

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM

*sad sigh*
… for some people.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 2:47 PM

Just rub it in! Wait, that is not what I meant. Well, kinda!!

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 2:58 PM

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:29 PM

If only these goofy groups of mere mortals would realize that they are the ones emptying out their pews by pretending that their particular denomination has the fast track to Heaven and the others are all pretenders. I wonder if there are others besides myself who find that a little less than brotherly?

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 2:59 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:49 PM

Thanks for coming around, you are a vital missing part to the recipe.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM

With all this talk about putting the beer in the koozie, I am heading out to the nursing home with extra denture creme.

HonestLib on February 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM

eh i think its more that i actually cook. i make homemade breads and cinnamon rolls by hand, homemade beef stew etc… my family will NOT be eating processed crap or fast food tyvm. i know that isnt for everyone but i enjoy cooking so it doesnt bother me

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM

Okay, I have a an early flight outta here and will be there around noon tomorrow for lunch.
*smiles*
P.S. Will bring doggie bag suit case.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM

If only these goofy groups of mere mortals would realize that they are the ones emptying out their pews by pretending that their particular denomination has the fast track to Heaven and the others are all pretenders. I wonder if there are others besides myself who find that a little less than brotherly?

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 2:59 PM

EXACTLY! It’s why i rarely go to services. I still go to Confession and i go on Holy days but every sunday? nope not happening. instead i talk to God daily on my own. I know he hears me , even if he doesn’t answer me :)

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 3:03 PM

Okay, I have a an early flight outta here and will be there around noon tomorrow for lunch.
*smiles*
P.S. Will bring doggie bag suit case.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM

lol tomorrow is baked ziti with garlic bread and a side salad.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 3:05 PM

If you want to read a Supreme Court decision that will not only explain the history of religion in the United States, but outright states that ‘The United States is a Christian nation’, along with citing variations of the constitutions of the states going back over a century, then peruse:

Church of the Holy Trinity v United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892)

It will absolutely curl the hair of some people…even if they are completely bald.

[For additional fun, read Vidal v Girard’s Executors, 43 U.S. 2 How. 127 (1844)]

As for me, I just shrug. I don’t try to rewrite history. I despise revisionist history, which is why I named my blog, Predictable History, Unpredictable Past.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:49 PM

Lime, as you’ve gathered from my posts, I post kind of “breezy” (as one commentator mentioned).
There was a time where I’d be more in depth with my thoughts and expressing them. Those days are gone.
My thoughts are a bit more tougher to process now. However, about the time this started to affect me, I had a great aunt who said it’s not that important you remember, as it is to know where you get your information.
Thank you for suppling the endless resources.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 3:12 PM

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 3:03 PM

He answers us. I went to a local service and they had a large TV screen on which they were playing a talk/routine by Steve Harvey will people were being seated before the start of services. He made some wisecrack about another denomination’s devotion to Mary. I suppose it was harmless but I was not amused. Can you imagine what we could do if we would join together in Christ?

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 3:12 PM

He answers us. I went to a local service and they had a large TV screen on which they were playing a talk/routine by Steve Harvey will people were being seated before the start of services. He made some wisecrack about another denomination’s devotion to Mary. I suppose it was harmless but I was not amused. Can you imagine what we could do if we would join together in Christ?

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 3:12 PM

I think Christ has been patiently waiting for all of us to get our act together and move on it.
Times a wastin’.

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 3:17 PM

He answers us. I went to a local service and they had a large TV screen on which they were playing a talk/routine by Steve Harvey will people were being seated before the start of services. He made some wisecrack about another denomination’s devotion to Mary. I suppose it was harmless but I was not amused. Can you imagine what we could do if we would join together in Christ?

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 3:12 PM

yes it would be awesome if we could unite. and yeah i get irritated by the wisecracks myself as well. Catholics are not “devoted” to Mary we just acknowledge her unique position as a conduit to her Son.

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 3:17 PM

You sure can’t. Where is the separation of state and church, from either side?

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM

Do you understand the Founding Fathers’ intention behind separating state from church?

It was to prevent the creation of a national church like the Church of England and to prohibit the Federal government from dictating religious doctrine to institutions of faith. It had nothing whatsoever to do with politicians speaking at churches or clergy mounting challenges to government (they have the same rights of assembly and redress of grievances, as do you). Ever heard of the Black Robe Regiment?

Would you agree that Thomas Jefferson wrote and signed the Declaration of Independence?

Would you agree that John Adams signed the Declaration of Independence?

Would you agree that, even though he was serving as Minister to France, Jefferson was in constant contact via correspondence with James Madison, George Washington, and George Mason relative to the drafting of the COTUS and the Bill of Rights?

Would you agree that John Adams supported the COTUS and the Bill of Rights?

I think that you likely agree with all of those. Now, consider this:

Without a doubt, the presidential election of 1800 between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson has to be the most vile, vicious and hateful elections this land has ever seen, Whilst I have much more, here is just some of what was said:

“The question is not what he will do, but what he is. Is he an infidel? Then, you cannot elect him without betraying our Lord. From all known infidels then let us withdraw our confidence and support. We are highly criminal if we knowingly contribute in any way to increase their influence or power for in so doing we contribute to our own and our country’s ruin. Let us hear no more, at such times, of amiability and gentleness — or candor, liberality, and moderation — of conciliating, mild and generous feeling. Such qualities are now not virtues, but vices.”

“Great god of compassion and justice, shield my country from destruction.”

“If Thomas Jefferson wins, murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced. The air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes. Are you prepared to see your dwellings in flames, female chastity violated, and children writhing on a pike?”

Good grief! Even Martha Washington got in on the act. She told clergymen that Jefferson was “one of the most detestable of mankind” and to “preach” it.

Now, if Washington, Adams, and Jefferson believed that there was a wall that separated church and state and it was a violation of the Constitution to even talk about politics with members of the clergy, then why didn’t Thomas Jefferson sue President John Adams for encouraging or not stopping the former first First Lady of the United States of America, Martha Washington, from admonishing the clergy to preach that Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, was ‘one of the most detestable of mankind’?

Schad, finally, I know that this will come as a shock so you might wish to sit down. Until 1833, the State of Massachusetts had a State Church. Unless one had an exemption or valid excuse (like a doctor’s note) the state could, if it chose, actually fine residents of the Commonwealth who missed Sunday services. THIS STATE CHURCH STOOD IN GOOD, CONSTITUTIONAL STANDING FOR 42 YEARS AFTER THE BILL OF RIGHTS WAS RATIFIED. FORTY-TWO!

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 3:18 PM

Thanks, everyone!

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 3:19 PM

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 3:18 PM

Yep, it was my understanding that the churches used to be the media. It was the one place they were sure everyone would go and get the news. Times change.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 3:21 PM

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 3:17 PM

He has more faith in us than I do.

Cindy Munford on February 14, 2016 at 3:22 PM

As for me, I just shrug.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 2:49 PM

All we have

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 3:25 PM

Yes, I understood a long time ago.

Just funny how the right is the left :)

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 3:26 PM

alright as fun as it is to chatter here i need to go do some other stuff have a great day folks!

katee bayer on February 14, 2016 at 3:32 PM

Thank you everyone. Nice chatting with you.
Time for a joy ride in the Sierra’s.
{{{Schad}}}

31giddyup on February 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM

Have fun Roni.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 3:42 PM

Anyone see the irony? This tweet from the man who believes the Seventh Commandment doesn’t apply to him.

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 12:58 PM

Has Trump actually said that he believes that the seventh commandment does not apply to him? Or has he simply admitted to breaking it?
I’d like to see that quote if he did say that it didn’t apply to him.

“Anyone see the irony?”

Solaratov on February 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM

Has Trump actually said that he believes that the seventh commandment does not apply to him? Or has he simply admitted to breaking it?
I’d like to see that quote if he did say that it didn’t apply to him.

“Anyone see the irony?”

Solaratov on February 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM

If Trump believed that the Seventh Commandment applied to him, he would have asked God for forgiveness for the many, many, many times that he has admitted to committing adultery.

He has stated that he has never asked God for forgiveness because he has lived a good life.

So, according to Brother Trump, repeatedly violating the Seventh Commandment – and not repenting for it – is ‘leading a good life.’

Lime in the Coconut on February 14, 2016 at 7:35 PM

Lime, please post on your blog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyp0x-cNuyE

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 10:57 PM

Anyone so inclined pls. make this go around

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyp0x-cNuyE

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2016 at 10:57 PM

Comment pages: 1 25 26 27