Video: Oregon standoff to end in surrender?

posted at 8:41 am on February 11, 2016 by Ed Morrissey

Late yesterday, the FBI moved personnel into position around the federal building occupied by the remnant of protesters at Malheur Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon, intent on ending the weeks-long standoff. That prompted a sometimes bizarre webstreamed broadcast of the protesters airing their grievances and at least once interrupted by provocateurs attempting to goad them into violence. As of this morning, though, it appears that the group has decided to turn themselves in rather than go out in a blaze of … something, anyway:

The remaining four occupiers at an Oregon federal wildlife refuge said they planned to turn themselves in Thursday morning after being surrounded by FBI agents overnight.

The FBI’s move to encircle the last holdout’s marked a dramatic escalation in a mostly slow-moving six-week standoff led by Ammon and Ryan Bundy — both currently in jail — at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. …

A man identified as Sean Anderson — one of the remaining four — said the occupiers would turn themselves in once Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore and North Carolina-based Christian evangelist Franklin Graham arrived at the refuge.

“We’re not surrendering, we’re turning ourselves in,” the 48-year-old said on the sometimes fiery phone call. “It’s going against everything we believe in.”

Meanwhile, the plot has thickened again. Police arrested Cliven Bundy, father of two of the organizers of the protest and the center of a another standoff in 2014, after he flew to Portland, Oregon, reportedly to join the occupiers. He didn’t get far:

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon Bundy, the leader of the occupation at an Oregon wildlife refuge, has been arrested after flying into Portland International Airport.

He was detained by the FBI and booked into Multnomah County Jail on Wednesday night, the prison’s records show. The four remaining occupiers of the wildlife refuge said they would turn themselves in Thursday morning.

A post on Bundy Ranch’s Facebook page said: “Cliven Bundy just landed in Portland; we are being told by eyes on ground that he was surrounded by SWAT and DETAINED.”

The Oregonian reports that the elder Bundy faces charges relating to the 2014 incident, and that another key figure in that conflict has also been arrested:

He faces a conspiracy charge to interfere with a federal officer — the same charge lodged against two of his sons, Ammon and Ryan, for their role in the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns. He also faces weapons charges. …

Bundy has been under federal scrutiny since his ranch standoff with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management. He has not paid grazing fees on federal land and he owes the agency $1 million in unpaid fees and penalties. He and militia supporters confronted federal agents who had impounded Bundy’s cattle that were found on federal property. …

Another key participant in the Nevada showdown was Ryan Payne, a Montana militiaman who helped organize militia snipers to take aim at federal agents in Nevada. Payne is considered the tactician behind the Oregon takeover and also has been arrested and faces a federal conspiracy charge.

Will the arrest impact the potential to end the Malheur standoff peacefully? Given their access to the Internet, it’s all but certain that the four remaining occupiers know about the arrest. So far, the plan to walk out “carrying American flags” appears to be holding, awaiting only the arrival of Fiore and Graham. Given the nature of the standoff and the strange back-and-forth reported on the internet broadcast last night (which my colleague Bob Owens of Bearing Arms live-tweeted for a while), it may not be over for a while. At this point, it might be good to pray that everyone gets out alive.


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Comments

The feds didn’t burn anyone alive this time, that’s a positive.

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 8:45 AM

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon Bundy, the leader of the occupation at an Oregon wildlife refuge, has been arrested after flying into Portland International Airport.

…charges…from 2014?

JugEarsButtHurt on February 11, 2016 at 8:45 AM

still haven’t heard if that one guy shot at the road block…was reaching for a gun…or reacting in pain from a shot…since there was no sound in the video.

JugEarsButtHurt on February 11, 2016 at 8:47 AM

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,

Just saying……..

GADinSB on February 11, 2016 at 8:49 AM

I listened to the live feed of the phone call last night. That guy Gavin was so patronizing. The people in that standoff weren’t falling for it but they have no leader and little food.

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 8:51 AM

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,

Just saying……..

GADinSB on February 11, 2016 at 8:49 AM

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

– Just saying….

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 8:52 AM

The feds didn’t burn anyone alive this time, that’s a positive.

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 8:45 AM

Or have Federal Goons assassinate any mothers holding their babies.

But I hear Stormin Janet Reno refers to Loretta Lynch as a “pussy” over this.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 8:56 AM

The feds didn’t burn anyone alive this time, that’s a positive.

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 8:45 AM

Or have Federal Goons assassinate any mothers holding their babies.

But I hear Stormin Janet Reno refers to Loretta Lynch as a “pu$$y” for not doing this.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 8:56 AM

John Browns they ain’t, but this tyrannical occuption by the federal govt. of YUGE swaths of western states’ land – along with repressive regulations against farmers and ranchers – gas got to put down.

Maybe this Bundy rebellion will light a fire.

locomotivebreath1901 on February 11, 2016 at 9:01 AM

– Just saying….

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 8:52 AM

The Federal Government has already committed more than enough crimes against the American People to invoke the Declaration of Independence and wash DC clean with tyrant blood…

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:02 AM

Maybe this Bundy rebellion will light a fire.

locomotivebreath1901 on February 11, 2016 at 9:01 AM

Another Waco/Ruby Ridge would right now almost certainly spark a Revolution.

Which is why the Obama Regime was actually careful here.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:04 AM

this might be the problem.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg

wolly4321 on February 11, 2016 at 9:04 AM

All this land should be sold/auctioned off that isn’t actually in use and for an Enumerated Power function and that revenue applied to the national debt.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:06 AM

“Who the hell do these people think they are, raising cattle on their own lands? Off with their heads! Hey Mrs. Clinton, can I have a campaign button?”

— FBI

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 9:09 AM

“Who the hell do these people think they are, raising cattle on their own lands? Off with their heads! Hey Mrs. Clinton, can I have a campaign button?”

— FBI

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 9:09 AM

And that is what will set off the Revolution, a Federal Goon hothead with a gun.

As I said, I think another Waco or Ruby Ridge would do it, and I think they know this, which is why The Regime has seemingly gone out of it’s way to not blow away the Bundy folk as they so clearly want to.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:19 AM

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon Bundy, the leader of the occupation at an Oregon wildlife refuge, has been arrested after flying into Portland International Airport.

Harry Reid says we need to get this behind us before the Nevada primary.

leftamark on February 11, 2016 at 9:26 AM

Poor little babies are all scared, cold and hungry. They’re the ones who choose how this ends. No one has stormed their little wildlife refuge.

These guys thought that this was going to be the Alamo but it turned out to just be a campout for disgraced boyscouts who never grew up and wanted to believe their sad pathetic lives had a purpose.

A few of them are contemplating going out like the ending of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid but I guarantee you it’s not for their own desperate measures, but because they think death will give values to their otherwise meaningless lives.

I hope these little boys are ashamed of themselves and never point a gun at a federal agent (who is more than likely ex-military and actually served with pride unlike these goons).

Davy Crockett is rolling over in his grave right now. Everyone who has ever shed blood or lost someone for our freedom should be rolling in their graves at the Patriotic comparisons here.

They holed themselves up in a Wildlife refuge. That’s all anyone needs to know.

ThomasPaineandsuffering on February 11, 2016 at 9:31 AM

And that is what will set off the Revolution, a Federal Goon hothead with a gun.

As I said, I think another Waco or Ruby Ridge would do it, and I think they know this, which is why The Regime has seemingly gone out of it’s way to not blow away the Bundy folk as they so clearly want to.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:19 AM

Point acknowledged, but I’d be more worried about another non-fed hothead who, a la killing the trophy-hunting jerk Ferdinand, gave the “feds” a rationale to start a rather useless “world” war. It would be a standard way governments have to consolidate or increase their “stranglehold” by forcing the populace to rally around phony “them ‘n us” issues. Despite the current seditious demwits and their relentless, evil power grabs, this still might be the only way to do it here.

RL on February 11, 2016 at 9:38 AM

Remember when BLM marched on the “malls” in Chi-raq during black Friday? They were called thugs by many (here and elsewhere) ….. And they’re only complaint was against an entire judicial system that was shown to be corrupt from the top down….
Yet here we have ranchers who refuse to follow the law and many ( here and elsewhere) call them heroes?
Gotta love the double standard’s . Lol.

Von Kleist on February 11, 2016 at 9:47 AM

The People will respond (over time, at least) to any and all Fed overreach by reacting the same way our sailors did.

vnvet on February 11, 2016 at 9:49 AM

As I said, I think another Waco or Ruby Ridge would do it, and I think they know this, which is why The Regime has seemingly gone out of it’s way to not blow away the Bundy folk as they so clearly want to.
ConstantineXI on February

But they’ve still won and the Bundy guys end up looking like criminals anyway.

Another abject lessor on how not to engage the Bureaucracy.

Cleombrotus on February 11, 2016 at 9:51 AM

Remember when BLM marched on the “malls” in Chi-raq during black Friday? They were called thugs by many (here and elsewhere) ….. And they’re only complaint was against an entire judicial system that was shown to be corrupt from the top down….
Yet here we have ranchers who refuse to follow the law and many ( here and elsewhere) call them heroes?
Gotta love the double standard’s . Lol.

Von Kleist on February 11, 2016 at 9:47 AM

Remember the old days when shopping malls were private property and had literally nothing to do with the judicial system? Those were good days, yeah? Better days.

Tomorrow I’m going to hold a protest gathering at Home Depot to highlight the VA scandals, you should come over and block the checkout lanes with me.

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 9:53 AM

They holed themselves up in a Wildlife refuge. That’s all anyone needs to know.

ThomasPaineandsuffering on February 11, 2016 at 9:31 AM

Multiple “no’s” here. I don’t see any credentials or links proving your snippy assessments, and with the self-righteous, priggish delivery, you needn’t bother, as they’d be questionable simply from that delivery and facts I – and most others with an once of curiosity and reading comprehension – know about the case.

Moreover and in particular, you’re not bothering to remark on those maps that show these “Wildlife refuges”, among a vast majority of such “designations”, are in great number and technically unconstitutional fed land/power encroachments. Try this link from another contributor – and, however much “Paine” it involves, then reconsider your facts and delivery in a more realistic light.

RL on February 11, 2016 at 9:54 AM

But they’ve still won and the Bundy guys end up looking like criminals anyway.

Another abject lessor on how not to engage the Bureaucracy.

Cleombrotus on February 11, 2016 at 9:51 AM

The Feds burned the Branch Davidians to death back in 1993 because:

A. They wanted to
B. They knew they could get away with it

They could have captured Koresh without a siege, arrested him and a bunch of his followers and “made them look like criminals” too. But they didn’t. They wanted a bloodbath.

An EXAMPLE of what happens to you if you decide to live in a way that isn’t DC Approved™

What they didn’t expect is that The Waco Massacre would lead to a growing awareness of our Natural Right to end this government for committing acts like that…

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:57 AM

Remember the old days when shopping malls were private property and had literally nothing to do with the judicial system? Those were good days, yeah? Better days.

That’s what happens when you have Corporate Welfare. Government never does anything to be nice. It does things to gain power.

Tomorrow I’m going to hold a protest gathering at Home Depot to highlight the VA scandals, you should come over and block the checkout lanes with me.

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 9:53 AM

If I were going to protest Home Depot it would be for their Hispandering to Illegal Aliens with their signs in Spanish as well as their tolerance for “day labor” gatherings of illegals in their parking lots…

The VA crime should be protested at every Federal building and courthouse.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 10:00 AM

Tomorrow I’m going to hold a protest gathering at Home Depot to highlight the VA scandals, you should come over and block the checkout lanes with me.

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 9:53 AM

If you can wriggle through all the dudes in the parking lot standing and waiting for a little “trabajo”, and add illegal immigration to your protest at Home Depot, then I’ll be there with ya.

;P

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on February 11, 2016 at 10:04 AM

Uncivil Intercourse…..your thoughts?????

Indiana Jim on February 11, 2016 at 10:04 AM

Ok I’m switching the location to Cherry Berry because:

Smoothie joint = Governmental bureaucracy corruption

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 10:07 AM

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:57 AM

I agree with you, particularly concerning the outrage of Waco, but as I see it, that’s the only positive out of this whole affair. The Feds still won and the Bundy folks are the bad guys in the eyes of most people.

The Feds have learned their lesson well but don’t think the other option is not available for when the time comes.

I don’t want to print what’s the only thing that’s gonna stop this.

Cleombrotus on February 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM

which my colleague Bob Owens of Bearing Arms live-tweeted for a while

Who apparently is okay with an instant death penalty for speeding.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM

Anyone interested in the actual truth about what is going on here, needs to take the time to watch/listen to this.

I see a lot of lazy and dishonest reporting on the standoff in the MSM (gotta protect boyfriend Obama and his feds!!!) and have read a lot of ignorant postings from the commentariat at various blogs, though not so much on HA. I hope interested parties will take the time to understand the history.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 10:21 AM

Remember when BLM marched on the “malls” in Chi-raq during black Friday? They were called thugs by many (here and elsewhere) ….. And they’re only complaint was against an entire judicial system that was shown to be corrupt from the top down….
Yet here we have ranchers who refuse to follow the law and many ( here and elsewhere) call them heroes?
Gotta love the double standard’s . Lol.

Von Kleist on February 11, 2016 at 9:47 AM

Yet another ignorant poster who doesn’t know the story behind this – the BLM has been flooding and burning people off this land for 40 years, the people have tried everything and been in and out of court for four decades, and they continue to be terrorized and have their cattle burned alive by these government thugs. Little surprise they feel they have nothing left to lose. Also, there is a government report that shows gold, silver, and copper found on these lands. Nothing but a land grab by our ‘benevolent’ government. Big Brother thanks you for your part in condemning these revolutionaries. Well done, comrade!

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 10:22 AM

Who apparently is okay with an instant death penalty for speeding.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM

Waassat?

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 10:22 AM

I don’t want to print what’s the only thing that’s gonna stop this.

Cleombrotus on February 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM


“Stand your ground. Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”
-Captain John Parker

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 10:25 AM

Who apparently is okay with an instant death penalty for speeding.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM

Waassat?

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 10:22 AM

Ever been to Ohio?

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 10:25 AM

“…it might be good to pray that everyone gets out alive”...particularly since it seems the ROE’s are now “Dead Men Tell No Tales”.

Another Drew on February 11, 2016 at 10:45 AM

Yet another ignorant poster who doesn’t know the story behind this – the BLM has been flooding and burning people off this land for 40 years, the people have tried everything and been in and out of court for four decades, and they continue to be terrorized and have their cattle burned alive by these government thugs. Little surprise they feel they have nothing left to lose. Also, there is a government report that shows gold, silver, and copper found on these lands. Nothing but a land grab by our ‘benevolent’ government. Big Brother thanks you for your part in condemning these revolutionaries. Well done, comrade!

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 10:22 AM

Doesn’t explain the losers held up on federal property, most of them with emotional problems, or bad family lives. One guy was whining about not caring about dying and leaving his kid without a father because he doesn’t have custody.

V-rod on February 11, 2016 at 10:52 AM

Hey, where the h3ll is CAIR, BLM, La Raza and the news cameras when ranchers are being discriminated against?

antipc on February 11, 2016 at 10:52 AM

Waassat?

Bishop on February 11, 2016 at 10:22 AM

If anyone can tell me what law was broken that required the vehicle to be pulled over for 7 minutes by car loads of armed men in camouflage, I am all ears.

I believe that even the police recommend that if the situation looks suspicious, you should go to a populated area. Waiting for 7 minutes for someone to approach the car and acknowledge their authority would cause alarms to go off for anyone.

So, after that, the road block is setup on a blind corner and the truck tried to avoid killing everyone. Probably was unable to stop in time due to the speed he was traveling.

Shot for speeding.

Of course, he was tazed and shot, but everyone seems to ignore that in the video, including Bob “I’m an expert at everything” Owens.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 10:56 AM

Police arrested Cliven Bundy, father of two of the organizers of the protest and the center of a another standoff in 2014

Long past due.

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:01 AM

“Who the hell do these people think they are, raising cattle on their own lands? Off with their heads! Hey Mrs. Clinton, can I have a campaign button?”

— FBI

fossten on February 11, 2016 at 9:09 AM

If they’d stayed on their lands they wouldn’t be in trouble now. Problem is they tried to steal what didn’t belong to them.

And you mindlessly applauded.

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:04 AM

“…it might be good to pray that everyone gets out alive”…particularly since it seems the ROE’s are now “Dead Men Tell No Tales”.

Another Drew on February 11, 2016 at 10:45 AM

The only one to die so far was the guy who swore publicly he’d never be taken alive and who look on the video to be reaching for a gun.

So, yeah

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:06 AM

If they’d stayed on their lands they wouldn’t be in trouble now. Problem is they tried to steal what didn’t belong to them.

And you mindlessly applauded.

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:04 AM

They were on public grazing lands that were public grazing lands before the Republic took claim of them.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 11:06 AM

If they’d stayed on their lands they wouldn’t be in trouble now. Problem is they tried to steal what didn’t belong to them.

And you mindlessly applauded.

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:04 AM

Spoken like a true moron.

*golf clap*

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 11:09 AM

If they’d stayed on their lands they wouldn’t be in trouble now.

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:04 AM

Witness the mind of a serf.

Cleombrotus on February 11, 2016 at 11:15 AM

At some future date:

State People’s Police arrested Cliven Bundy shot the self-appointed child sacrificer, Tlaloc, father of two of the organizers of the protest inaugural sacrifices and the center of a [sic] another standoff in 2014 cultural degeneracy over multiple generations of his self-appointed god-hood.

Would you like to know more?

FIFT

/H /S

RL on February 11, 2016 at 11:17 AM

Over fed fat lazy troll has to many lies in its life do not assist it in another senseless hog trough feeding frenzy.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 11, 2016 at 11:24 AM

The only one to die so far was the guy who swore publicly he’d never be taken alive and who look on the video to be reaching for a gun.

So, yeah…

Tlaloc

That boy didn’t deserve to die. Hands up, don’t shoot.

xblade on February 11, 2016 at 11:29 AM

This isn’t the government’s land. It isn’t their land. It’s actually a tribe on record who has a treaty stating that it’s their land. Now please proceed to spin how these White guys have more rights to it than the Indians who roamed it for thousands of years. Run in there. Take them out by force. Shoot who ever doesn’t comply. If you can shoot Black kids with toy guns and knives and Un armed then you can shoot white men pointing sniper rifles at you. I’m done hearing about this. The law is the law. You don’t like it. Write to your congressman.

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 11:32 AM

The law is the law. You don’t like it. Write to your congressman.

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 11:32 AM

Please point to the law that says you can’t be on public land with a gun and punishment is death?

BTW, how is having a gun on Federal land against the law when you have the 2nd Amendment specifically stating that Congress can’t make any such laws?

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 11:37 AM

Please point to the law that says you can’t be on public land with a gun and punishment is death?
BTW, how is having a gun on Federal land against the law when you have the 2nd Amendment specifically stating that Congress can’t make any such laws?
__________

They are trespassing. They do not own the wildlife refuge. Theye have been asked to leave. They havent. That is called trespassing.

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 11:50 AM

Punishable by death?
It is just a fine.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 12:01 PM

Punishable by death?
It is just a fine
_____

No one was killed for having a gun on public land or for trespassing. One guy was killed for evading arrest and reaching for his gun while the police were attempting to apprehend him.

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 12:05 PM

No one was killed for having a gun on public land or for trespassing. One guy was killed for evading arrest and reaching for his gun while the police were attempting to apprehend him.

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 12:05 PM

Prove he was reaching for a gun. We’ll wait.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 12:22 PM

still haven’t heard if that one guy shot at the road block…was reaching for a gun…or reacting in pain from a shot…since there was no sound in the video.

JugEarsButtHurt on February 11, 2016 at 8:47 AM

According to the posters here, the police don’t have time to decide. In fact, you can roll up on a 12 year old boy and begin shooting in less than 2 seconds.

“Stand your ground. Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.” -Captain John Parker

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 10:25 AM

The People will respond (over time, at least) to any and all Fed overreach by reacting the same way our sailors did.

vnvet on February 11, 2016 at 9:49 AM

And that is what will set off the Revolution, a Federal Goon hothead with a gun.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2016 at 9:19 AM

I also find it funny that people on here are talking about needing a revolution but let multiple unarmed black men be shot dead in the streets and people are supposed to just sit around and do nothing about it. I guess the armed revolution you want doesn’t count for black folks.

If your revolution talk was colorblind at least you would be consistent but actually it’s all just a bunch of Hot Air. You will do as you are told by the government’s police thugs. They’ve already got you conditioned to be ok with them killing unarmed blacks (even children) and you’re next. Heck, you can’t even support BLM protesters and you want a full scale revolution?

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 12:25 PM

Prove he was reaching for a gun. We’ll wait.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 12:22 PM

Prove any of the black people killed that Black Lives Matter protesters are fed up about were reaching for a gun. We’ll wait much longer.

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 12:28 PM

Prove he was reaching for a gun. We’ll wait.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 12:22 PM

Prove any of the black people killed that Black Lives Matter protesters are fed up about were reaching for a gun. We’ll wait much longer.

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 12:28 PM
—————–

This.

What I do know is he said he wouldn’t be taken alive. He ran from the police. He was armed. As I’ve been told on this board many of times when ever its a Black person being shot by the police is “Don’t break the law” “Follow the police commands” So that’s the same criteria that I’m applying to the deceased gentleman. Had he not broken a law and/or followed police commands he may still be alive. He has no one to blame but himself.

Now if you want to talk about maybe how the police need better training and not be so trigger happy and stop shooting down our citizens in the street both Black and White (but Blacks at a much higher %) than that is a conversation I would love to have with you. You may even want to check out a BLM march in your area as if that’s your position then it is one shared by hundreds of thousands of inner city Blacks. They’ve been screaming about it for a long time now. Shame it took a White guy getting shot for you to listen….

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 12:49 PM

Prove he was reaching for a gun. We’ll wait.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 12:22 PM

Prove any of the black people killed that Black Lives Matter protesters are fed up about were reaching for a gun. We’ll wait much longer.

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 12:28 PM

Take your hissey fit elsewhere. Go dance with Beyonce at halftime. This thread is not about BLM nor have I suggested BLM doesn’t have the right to free speech and free assembly. I know the Bundys personally so I know their story. I don’t know Michael Brown or Freddie Gray or Trayvon or whoever. Maybe their killings were justified and maybe they weren’t. That’s not what we’re discussing here, Chief.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 12:51 PM

Take your hissey fit elsewhere. Go dance with Beyonce at halftime. This thread is not about BLM nor have I suggested BLM doesn’t have the right to free speech and free assembly. I know the Bundys personally so I know their story. I don’t know Michael Brown or Freddie Gray or Trayvon or whoever. Maybe their killings were justified and maybe they weren’t. That’s not what we’re discussing here, Chief.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 12:51 PM

“First they came for the blacks but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t black…”

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 1:19 PM

They were on public grazing lands that were public grazing lands before the Republic took claim of them.

LoganSix on February 11, 2016 at 11:06 AM

*eyeroll*

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 1:22 PM

“First they came for the blacks but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t black…”

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 1:19 PM

Nice try. When I hear you arguing for the Bundys then you can play that card. Good show attempting to hijack this thread the way BLM hijacks Bernie Sanders rallies though. Get bent.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 1:23 PM

So…

Did the feds not slaughter them all due to wise restraint from fear of starting a wide civil insurrection?

Or is it simply because Loretta Lynch doesn’t have a friendly leftist General willing to roll the tanks and flame throwers for her in violation of Posse Comitatus like Janet Reno had in Weasley Clark?

LegendHasIt on February 11, 2016 at 1:23 PM

Nice try. When I hear you arguing for the Bundys then you can play that card. Good show attempting to hijack this thread the way BLM hijacks Bernie Sanders rallies though. Get bent.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 1:23 PM
————-

You must have missed my comment.

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 2:05 PM

You must have missed my comment.

Politricks on February

What I must’ve missed is how your comment would be relevant or applicable to the commentor I was addressing.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 2:21 PM

Standoff over peacefully at 11 a.m. Pacific. Read about it at oregonlive.com.

foxymike on February 11, 2016 at 2:23 PM

What I must’ve missed is how your comment would be relevant or applicable to the commentor I was addressing.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 2:21 PM
———————————————

You said “when you’re speaking out for the bundys, you can play that card”

I spoke out for all citizens and I suggested you visit a BLM meeting or march since you seem to be complaining about the same things (Police brutality and unfair treatment, poorly trained cops with itchy trigger fingers)

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 2:58 PM

which is why The Regime has seemingly gone out of it’s way to not blow away the Bundy folk as they so clearly want to.
ConstantineXI on February

Have you forgotten LaVoy Finicum?

Solaratov on February 11, 2016 at 4:02 PM

Gotta love the double standard’s . Lol.

Von Kleist on February 11, 2016 at 9:47 AM

Different BLM, dude.

Nobody cares about yours as anything other than moving targets.

Solaratov on February 11, 2016 at 4:09 PM

Nice try. When I hear you arguing for the Bundys then you can play that card. Good show attempting to hijack this thread the way BLM hijacks Bernie Sanders rallies though. Get bent.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 1:23 PM

I actually believe police are too militarized and trigger happy when it comes to ALL citizens. But when all these cases of black unarmed men and boys being shot dead (on video even) by police were revealed, people on the right gave all these excuses for the police. Now an armed man who said he wasn’t going to be taken alive is killed and people here want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I sympathize with the loss of your friend but the double standard is duly noted.

This is worth posting again:

“First they came for the blacks but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t black…”

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 4:21 PM

The only one to die so far was the guy who swore publicly he’d never be taken alive and who look on the video to be reaching for a gun.

So, yeah…

Tlaloc on February 11, 2016 at 11:06 AM

No, buttwipe, he was grabbing at the spot he had just been shot in. Then, he was shot by one of the snipers across the road. And one of them shot him in the face as he lay dying. There was a total of nine bullet holes in LaVoy’s body…including the ones in his face and head. The funeral had to be closed-casket.

And the gun he was supposedly carrying in that left pocket?
a)LaVoy *never* carried a 9mm. Only a .45Long Colt…holstered on his RIGHT hip.
b)The pistol the FBI produced was reported stolen in Utah two years ago.
c)The FBI planted the gun.

Maybe, whenever the feds release the bodycam and dashcam footage, we’ll know for sure what went on.

And, simply because someone says that he’d “rather die than go to prison”, doesn’t give the feds carte blanch to ambush and murder him for trespassing on a wildlife refuge.

Damn, boy…but you are such a complete asshole!

Solaratov on February 11, 2016 at 4:26 PM

You may even want to check out a BLM march in your area

Politricks on February 11, 2016 at 12:49 PM

No thanks. Don’t need to be caught in the middle of a black riot.
I don’t carry enough ammo.

Solaratov on February 11, 2016 at 4:36 PM

…Now an armed man who said he wasn’t going to be taken alive is killed and people here want to give him the benefit of the doubt……
proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 4:21 PM

Finicum may not have actually been armed (and he definitely ‘acted stupidly’ with his brag that he would never be taken alive). He did leave his usual handgun back at the compound. The one the Feds say he tried to shoot them with, the serial number comes up on the stolen gun list as having been stolen several years ago.

Now, I’m not saying that Finicum couldn’t have stolen that gun himself, or purchased it from someone who did…. But that IS the sort of thing that corrupt law enforcement people just love to acquire and have handy for a ‘throw down’ gun to claim ‘self defense’ after they execute a suspect.

LegendHasIt on February 11, 2016 at 4:40 PM

Solaratov on February 11, 2016 at 4:26 PM

Ooops… I shoulda refreshed the page before I posted mine. Oh well, that needs to be repeated often anyway.

LegendHasIt on February 11, 2016 at 4:42 PM

I actually believe police are too militarized and trigger happy when it comes to ALL citizens. But when all these cases of black unarmed men and boys being shot dead (on video even) by police were revealed, people on the right gave all these excuses for the police. Now an armed man who said he wasn’t going to be taken alive is killed and people here want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I sympathize with the loss of your friend but the double standard is duly noted.

This is worth posting again:

“First they came for the blacks but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t black…”

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 4:21 PM

You see like you mean well. But the flaw in your argument above is attempting to attribute general sentiment on the right to me as an individual because I am also on the right. This is knows as the Division fallacy.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 4:44 PM

You see like you mean well. But the flaw in your argument above is attempting to attribute general sentiment on the right to me as an individual because I am also on the right. This is knows as the Division fallacy.

Kataklysmic on February 11, 2016 at 4:44 PM

You’re right. I’m really just venting general frustration. I didn’t mean you personally and sorry if it came off as a personal attack.

proverbs427 on February 11, 2016 at 6:09 PM