We may never know if Hillary really won the Iowa caucus

posted at 10:31 am on February 3, 2016 by Jazz Shaw

Just how much of a mess was the Democrat caucus in Iowa Monday night? We knew there were questions about the results before the dust had even settled on Tuesday morning, but the more time the local press has had to do interviews and dig into the details, the more this is looking like a total dumpster fire. The Des Moines Register has been tracking down some of the more problematic precincts to see what was going on and it’s increasingly looking like Hillary Clinton will remain the announced victor no matter how many questions the Sanders campaign raises, but it’s going to have a big old asterisk next to it in the record books.

It’s Iowa’s nightmare scenario revisited: An extraordinarily close count in the Iowa caucuses — and reports of chaos in precincts, website glitches and coin flips to decide county delegates — are raising questions about accuracy of the count and winner.

This time it’s the Democrats, not the Republicans.

Even as Hillary Clinton trumpeted her Iowa win in New Hampshire on Tuesday, aides for Bernie Sanders said the eyelash-thin margin raised questions and called for a review. The chairwoman of the Iowa Democratic Party rejected that notion, saying the results are final.

First of all, there weren’t just six coin flips to settle some of the precincts… there were a bunch of them. We’re selecting the nominee for one of the major parties to be the next leader of the free world. We’re flipping coins now? But even leaving that aside, the methods they employ to determine the winners at each polling station are a hot mess, as has long been known.

We should pause at this point to note that this isn’t an official “election” which is overseen by by the Secretary of State or any government board, but a private party exclusive to the Democrats. Because of that, it’s technically nobody’s business except the Democrats of Iowa as to how they conduct their caucus. It’s the equivalent of how the members at the Moose Lodge pick their next Grand Poobah. It’s really up to the members. But why aren’t more of them complaining? The Democrats don’t even pick their winner based on a head count like in the Republicans do. They generate “state delegate equivalents” based on some obscure math formula. There’s also the matter of having to show up to vote and stand in a very public spotlight to reflect your choice, where all of your friends and relatives can see you. Maybe even your boss. If she’s a Clinton supporter and sees you backing Sanders, standing in the way of the nomination of the first female president, well… let’s see how that goes at review time next year.

But even if the system were rational and sane, in too many places it wasn’t organized enough to have any faith in the numbers.

Democratic voters reported long lines, too few volunteers, a lack of leadership and confusing signage. In some cases, people waited for an hour in one line, only to learn their precinct was in a different area of the same building. The proceedings were to begin at 7 p.m. but started late in many cases.

The scene at precinct No. 42, the one with the final missing votes, was “chaos” Monday night, said Jill Joseph, a rank-and-file Democratic voter who backed Sanders in the caucuses.

None of the 400-plus Democrats wanted to be in charge of the caucus, so a man who had shown up just to vote reluctantly stepped forward. As Joseph was leaving with the untrained caucus chairman, who is one of her neighbors, “I looked at him and said, ‘Who called in the results of our caucus?’ And we didn’t know.”

So somebody with no training was dragged out of the line of people waiting to vote and told to use the new Microsoft app to report the results. What could possibly go wrong?

That election – to be generous with the term – came down to a difference of two tenths of one percent. They won’t release the final numbers they have, and even if they wanted to they would be meaningless. They were counting heads visually. There are no paper ballots to go back and recount even if you wanted to. Hillary Clinton gets to claim a victory because of the rules established by her party in Iowa. She may have won by a little or a lot or she may have lost. Nobody is ever going to know.

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Comments

No, the media is missing it. The scary thing is that socialism is the winner in the Iowa caucus.

Oil Can on February 3, 2016 at 10:36 AM

IMHO we still don’t know if Obama really won the presidency in 2008 or 2012.

bgibbs1000 on February 3, 2016 at 10:36 AM

What a mess…

OmahaConservative on February 3, 2016 at 10:37 AM

“The scene was chaos.”

Yeah. Manufactured chaos.

Agent Cooper on February 3, 2016 at 10:38 AM

And these are the people who want to run your health care and foreign policy.

AesopFan on February 3, 2016 at 10:39 AM

Glad to see the Dems not only cheat on national elections like getting Al Franken into office – they’ll cheat themselves too. Where’s the popcorn?

Hill60 on February 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM

We may never see her prosecuted for her high crimes and misdemeanors either.

iamsaved on February 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM

So there were more than six coin flips? Did they all go in favor of Clinton? Bet you they did.

Vanceone on February 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM

Hillary made the calls: Heads I win, tails you lose

Jackson on February 3, 2016 at 10:45 AM

Remember, these are the people who tell you Government Works ™.

The Schaef on February 3, 2016 at 10:47 AM

By resorting to election fraud in Iowa (and pull the gloves off, that’s what happened, NO ONE wins 6 coin tosses in a row, NO ONE) Hillary may have doomed any chance she had at the nomination.

The insane, crazy Democrat base are going to redouble their efforts in New Hampshire as a consequence of cheating Comrade Senator Sanders out of Iowa.

To win the nomination, Hillary is going to have to engage in election fraud on the scale of Iran or Venezuela.

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 10:47 AM

Well, this was the first time they did this. Oh, wait. It wasn’t. So where was the organization that saw to it that every caucus had a trained leader, a trained assistant for crowd control and a trained record keeper. And that all three were ready to step into each other’s shoes? They had four years to get ready.

Fred 2 on February 3, 2016 at 10:48 AM

Maybe they wanted chaos. After all how else can you stack the deck in a caucus?

Fred 2 on February 3, 2016 at 10:51 AM

Let’s put them in charge of all medical services and national defense.

forest on February 3, 2016 at 10:53 AM

Hillary is the Kim Il Sung of coin flips. Just as the Korean Dictator hit a hole in one every time he golfed, Comrade Pantsuit wins every coin toss!

And the Democrats in Party Square cheered!

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 10:54 AM

I couldn’t care less any longer. The libs keep electing human trash and NEVER holding them to account for anything, then act all surprised when their latest fascist rep kicks them in the teeth.

Killary is a criminal, her hub is a criminal, her entire life has been built on stepping over the bodies of her opponents, figuratively and literally. The libs know this, they don’t care, so I don’t care.

I’m keeping my head down and waiting this one out, if the insane harridan is elected it won’t be me who directly suffers her wrath, it will the doltish asshats who voted for her.

Bishop on February 3, 2016 at 10:57 AM

Bernie has to go on the attack.

albill on February 3, 2016 at 10:58 AM

Well, this was the first time they did this. Oh, wait. It wasn’t. So where was the organization that saw to it that every caucus had a trained leader, a trained assistant for crowd control and a trained record keeper. And that all three were ready to step into each other’s shoes? They had four years to get ready.

Fred 2 on February 3, 2016 at 10:48 AM

Hillary got blindsided by Barack HUSSEIN Obama in Iowa in 2008 because she failed to take him seriously or have a backup plan.

What you just saw was the result of 4 years of planning, they had a Clinton CaucusFraud™ special forces unit deployed on the ground.

She will try something similar in New Hampshire. The only question is how far will the media have to go to ignore it’s existence when it will have to be very very blatant to erase the HUGE gap between Comrade Senator Sanders and Comrade Pantsuit?

It will be an “election” only in the Saddam Hussein sense of the word…

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 10:59 AM

She may have won by a little or a lot or she may have lost. Nobody is ever going to know.

And that’s just the way Debbie Wasserman Shultz wants it.

BacaDog on February 3, 2016 at 11:00 AM

I actually feel a bit sorry for Sanders and his supporters. They clearly won and were cheated out of their victory.

This doesn’t mean I want Sanders as president, but Hillary belongs in a jail cell.

Doomberg on February 3, 2016 at 11:00 AM

Killery: “At this point in time, what difference does it make!? I’m going to lie and cheat my way all the way to the White House. After all, the American people deserve me!”…… “And,they deserve Bill, too!”

Cherokee on February 3, 2016 at 11:01 AM

Take a good look Libs at this Rotten puss case of humanity.
Always scheming….forever condescending….

Sooooo, when you puke and moan that Mr. Cruz is not likeable,
Take a good loooooong look at What you support…

Pretty damn sad.

ToddPA on February 3, 2016 at 11:03 AM

I don’t know what all the griping is about.

It all sounds perfectly “D”emocratic to me.

Meremortal on February 3, 2016 at 11:07 AM

The Republican caucus is by secret ballot. The Democrat caucus in Iowa is not, so as to make it easier for their establishment to commit election fraud.

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:08 AM

“May never really know” just how the Clintons and their supporters like it.

Funny how all of that randomness and chaos just happened to coincidentally benefit Hillary.

Example video of the clusterfark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNz-dtnQ1Ys&feature=youtu.be

Monkey meet football.

Oxymoron on February 3, 2016 at 11:09 AM

Sure she did. She said so herself.

CurtZHP on February 3, 2016 at 11:10 AM

So somebody with no training was dragged out of the line of people waiting to vote and told to use the new Microsoft app to report the results. What could possibly go wrong?

Why is Microsoft allowed to be involved at all?
Seems to me they have a definite conflict of interest when they’re also donors to some of the campaigns.

lynncgb on February 3, 2016 at 11:12 AM

Take a good look Libs at this Rotten puss case of humanity.
Always scheming….forever condescending….

Sooooo, when you puke and moan that Mr. Cruz is not likeable,
Take a good loooooong look at What you support…

Pretty damn sad.

ToddPA on February 3, 2016 at 11:03 AM

Yup. Ditto.

Turtle317 on February 3, 2016 at 11:12 AM

Sure she did. She said so herself.

CurtZHP on February 3, 2016 at 11:10 AM

Iowans showed so much disloyalty to the ROYAL Comrade Pantsuit by forcing her to commit blatant caucus fraud (ie: the 6 coin flips in a row that she “won”) they are fortunate she is still willing to be Their Ruler.

Her “victory” speech was done in the manner and tone of a very hacked off ex-wife pissed off that she got dumped for Natalie Portman.

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Take a good look Libs at this Rotten puss case of humanity.
Always scheming….forever condescending….

Sooooo, when you puke and moan that Mr. Cruz is not likeable,
Take a good loooooong look at What you support…

Pretty damn sad.

ToddPA on February 3, 2016 at 11:03 AM

I don’t really care who’s likeable or not.
It’s never been progressives who obsess over this stuff.
As I often say, I’d rather grab a beer with George Bush then have dinner with Bill Clinton.
But I know who I preferred sitting in the oval office. Whether they’re praying hard every morning with their eyes shut super tight or they’re down in the basement getting blown by interns was not my business. That’s for Jerry Falwell Jr to be concerned about.
Well used to be, I guess.

(All that said, I’d rather shoot guns with Sanders than Cruz – no question.
You KNOW I’m right.)

verbaluce on February 3, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Democratic voters reported long lines, too few volunteers, a lack of leadership and confusing signage. In some cases, people waited for an hour in one line, only to learn their precinct was in a different area of the same building. The proceedings were to begin at 7 p.m. but started late in many cases.

Gee, if only the Fascist-Democrats had four years to prepare for this . . .

rbj on February 3, 2016 at 11:14 AM

To win the nomination, Hillary is going to have to engage in election fraud on the scale of Iran or Venezuela.

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 10:47 AM

So you mean… Business as usual?

Oxymoron on February 3, 2016 at 11:17 AM

Her “victory” speech was done in the manner and tone of a very hacked off ex-wife pissed off that she got dumped for Natalie Portman.

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Those of us who have been married a long time recognize that particular facial expression as “The Look.”

It’s what a man gets when he’s REALLY stepped in it.

CurtZHP on February 3, 2016 at 11:18 AM

Along with so much else of our country’s political machinery, the primary system seems sclerotic as well.

bobs1196 on February 3, 2016 at 11:18 AM

So you mean… Business as usual?

Oxymoron on February 3, 2016 at 11:17 AM

Be on the lookout for fleets of Chevy Dolts parked at your polling place: the trunk will be full of “found” ballots.

Of course to get Hillary elected they are going to need fleets of semis loaded with them…

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:20 AM

Same s**t every four years. It’s like the Eill Togets said: “I don’t belong to any organized party, I’m a Democrat.” Chaos and confusion caused by a large turnout? Check. Evidence of systematic fraud? Nope. It may be disorganized, but it’s all right there out in the open, for better or for worse. You can’t really steal a caucus, because everyone with a vested interest in the other candidates is right there in the room with you.

No close Runner up in the history of the caucuses had ever not alleged that there was something fishy going on. And no smoking gun ever turns up.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:21 AM

Will Rogers (dang phone)

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:22 AM

As members of the United Steel Workers have told me about their votes:

If you want a unanimous vote, have a public show of hands.

If you want to know what people actually wanted, you have a secret ballot.

In a political race, it would be easy to imagine someone saying:

“So, you would like a patronage job some day? Better get in the right group.”

KW64 on February 3, 2016 at 11:23 AM

No close Runner up in the history of the caucuses had ever not alleged that there was something fishy going on. And no smoking gun ever turns up.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:21 AM

That’s because the Democrats have been at election fraud for so long they know how to remove the smoke…

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:25 AM

I especially enjoyed the coin flip results, flip after flip after flip just happens to work in Killary’s favor; the math equation involved and the resultant odds were a thing of beauty.

I guess we will see if the libs want to really make an issue of this or if they’ll pull their usual routine of glazing their eyes, smiling vacantly, and hoisting their “Ready for Killary!” signs over their heads. I know which course I would lay money on.

Bishop on February 3, 2016 at 11:26 AM

Hillary is the Kim Il Sung of coin flips. Just as the Korean Dictator hit a hole in one every time he golfed, Comrade Pantsuit wins every coin toss!

And the Democrats in Party Square cheered!

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 10:54 AM

Actually it was Kim Jong Il, son of Kim Il Sung, who had the golfing prowess. On his first time golfing, he shot a 34, with 11 holes-in-one. This was on the 7,700-yard, 18-hole Pyongyang Golf Club, which is longer than the average PGA Tour course. But your analogy is nonetheless correct.

GAlpha10 on February 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM

Evidence of systematic fraud? Nope.

urban effetist on February 3, 2016 at 11:21 AM

Democrats Lyndon Johnson and Old Joe Kennedy, who stole a Presidential election in 1960 (plenty of evidence for that one) could not be reached for comment.

F-

Del Dolemonte on February 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM

I especially enjoyed the coin flip results, flip after flip after flip just happens to work in Killary’s favor; the math equation involved and the resultant odds were a thing of beauty.

I guess we will see if the libs want to really make an issue of this or if they’ll pull their usual routine of glazing their eyes, smiling vacantly, and hoisting their “Ready for Killary!” signs over their heads. I know which course I would lay money on.

Bishop on February 3, 2016 at 11:26 AM

I am as prepared to believe that Hillary won 6 consecutive coin flips as I am that Kim Il Sung really played a round of golf where he hit a hole in one every single time.

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM

Here’s a nice twist.

An illegal alien Iowa precinct captain is upset because he and another illegal alien couldn’t vote for Bernie, eliminating the need for a coin toss that Hillary won.

Personally, I’m glad they couldn’t vote, regardless of which candidate would benefit. But they can be precinct captains???

Oxymoron on February 3, 2016 at 11:32 AM

Actually it was Kim Jong Il, son of Kim Il Sung, who had the golfing prowess. On his first time golfing, he shot a 34, with 11 holes-in-one. This was on the 7,700-yard, 18-hole Pyongyang Golf Club, which is longer than the average PGA Tour course. But your analogy is nonetheless correct.

GAlpha10 on February 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM

My bad. I thought it was his daddy who made the claim.

Of course, given that it’s North Korea, they probably had a political prisoner slave on every hole who picked up the ball, ran to the hole, and put it in after Kim drove it a whole 6 yards… :)

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:32 AM

Democrats Lyndon Johnson and Old Joe Kennedy, who stole a Presidential election in 1960 (plenty of evidence for that one) could not be reached for comment.
F-

Del Dolemonte on February 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM

I think we’re discussing the 2016 Iowa caucuses here. But, if you’re getting all historic, don’t forget to list George W. Bush and Rutherford B. Hayes as yogurts who had election stolen for them.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:45 AM

ConstantineXI on February 3, 2016 at 11:32 AM

Exactly.

He was also quite a bowler, bowling a perfect game (300) the first time he tried.

GAlpha10 on February 3, 2016 at 11:49 AM

In this situation, it’s effectively a tie, so call it one and move on.

Count to 10 on February 3, 2016 at 11:51 AM

As members of the United Steel Workers have told me about their votes:

If you want a unanimous vote, have a public show of hands.

If you want to know what people actually wanted, you have a secret ballot.

In a political race, it would be easy to imagine someone saying:

“So, you would like a patronage job some day? Better get in the right group.”

KW64 on February 3, 2016 at 11:23 AM

No coincidence that Hillary actually won more votes than Obama in the 2008 primaries. He got the nomination by gaming the caucuses and then browbeating the superdelegates. The rank and file Democrats never supported him. There were many allegations that his campaign bussed people in to Iowa from Illinois and created chaos at many precincts in order to flummox the Clinton supporters and get them to leave. Those who remained were flat out called racists for not supporting Obama. They did the same thing in Texas.

rockmom on February 3, 2016 at 12:06 PM

Any one declaring winners or losers in this is just a fool. Step back a foot or two and you see that the votes for Democrats were even between the two by maybe one or two votes. The republicans a bit more spread maybe a dozen votes. In all case not much of a spread.What it dose say is its going to be a long time yet.

jpcpt03 on February 3, 2016 at 12:13 PM

(All that said, I’d rather shoot guns with Sanders than Cruz – no question.
You KNOW I’m right.)

verbaluce on February 3, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Because with Sanders, you’ll be shooting at people who want to be free and with Cruz, you’ll just be shooting at paper targets.

LoganSix on February 3, 2016 at 12:17 PM

She won the headlines and the news cycle. It’s over.

Moesart on February 3, 2016 at 12:19 PM

don’t forget to list George W. Bush and Rutherford B. Hayes as yogurts who had election stolen for them.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:45 AM

…your butthurt is delicious…

Pelosi Schmelosi on February 3, 2016 at 12:30 PM

don’t forget to list George W. Bush and Rutherford B. Hayes as yogurts who had election stolen for them.
urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:45 AM

…your butthurt is delicious…

Pelosi

If I have to hear about the never-proven allegations regarding JFK from whiny Republicans for the rest of my life — and, apparently, I do — you guys have to hear abou Bush.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 12:40 PM

So basically both winners stole their respective 1st place finishes. Caucuses are such a joke.

cimbri on February 3, 2016 at 12:47 PM

Here’s the actual non-photoshopped debate pic of Comrades Bernie and Hillary.

justltl on February 3, 2016 at 12:47 PM

No, the media is missing it. The scary thing is that socialism is the winner in the Iowa caucus.

Oil Can on February 3, 2016 at 10:36 AM

..Oil Can, respectfully, the sewer gas emitting from Des Moines in the wake of this serves to distract from two important take-aways:

(1) !Jeb! got only 2.8% and while Sunshine-State Boy got considerably more. He landed between Rand Paul and Carly Fiorina (again, talk about “Lucky Pierre”). Also, Rand Paul withdrew (excuse me, “suspended”) his campaign. That is causing tremors in the GOPe force with respect to well-heeled donors and immense downward pressure on Senor Aco de Amor.

(2) We do not know the *exact* size of the Dem turnout in IA because they hide that under the mantle of their silly-assed “precinct counts”. (700 for the Coin-Flipping, Tree-Legged C*nt versus 698-something for the Sclerotic Socialist.) But we do know that the (R) turnout was massive and record-breaking and this goes to enthusiasm.

(2A) Also, there was a Hot Gas Headline this AM re the IA demographics that is sure to make the urine in Hildabeast’s Depends freeze solid and that is how really young voters fled from her (18-80 percent), how the segment above those walked away at a rather rapid gait (something like 25-65 percent) and how those looking for a trustworthy candidate just dropped her in the trash (10-85 percent) on the way to the caucuses.

Were I she, I would have those old tree-stumps a-quivering.

The War Planner on February 3, 2016 at 12:49 PM

Senor Aco de Amor == “Senor El Acto de Amor” of course.

The War Planner on February 3, 2016 at 12:49 PM

Yet Iowa will go down as a “historic victory”. A Mandate from the people!

tdarrington on February 3, 2016 at 12:56 PM

Del Dolemonte on February 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM

I think we’re discussing the 2016 Iowa caucuses here. But, if you’re getting all historic, don’t forget to list George W. Bush and Rutherford B. Hayes as yogurts who had election stolen for them.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 11:45 AM

..oh, you poor dumb sonofabeyotch, you just walked into a buzz saw. Dole has just sharpened his flensing knives and fired up the machinery in his abattoir. He will be back with you as soon as he sets his 10-acre field of sundials.

The War Planner on February 3, 2016 at 12:57 PM

“Those who cast the votes decide nothing.
Those who count the votes decide everything.”
~ Joseph Stalin

Ricard on February 3, 2016 at 12:58 PM

This would be a great time to address the Sanders voters and welcome them to our world – where the media and the Democratic establishment go hand in hand. Look at all the puff pieces that were dedicated to Hillary on Monday. And she still won by the slightest of margins.
The system is rigged and you can either conform to their wishes or be condemned by their media.

djaymick on February 3, 2016 at 1:18 PM

A perfect microcosm of the Democratic party.

Screw the facts, screw the numbers….we WANT {insert socialist policy, or free (insert item or service)}.

Their machine politics is not only dishonest, but blatant about it. They have trained their voters not to care…..or to not understand.

Bernie doesnt want to win. He likes leading a “revolution” but the work involved in being President doesnt appeal to a lifelong government sponge like Sanders. Plus he isnt a dummy…Even if its deeeeeep down…he knows his ideas only work on paper and failure never comes if they stay there.

Hillary is the nominee if she can stay out of jail. The DOJ will do anything it needs to in avoiding prosecution.(except maybe allow Obama’s rep to be ruined), so expect her to be the candidate.

If Hillary is somehow elected President, it will be like America voted for Nixon in 1976. This women is unlikable, criminal, and corrupt beyond any expectation of normal politics….or low level gangsters for that matter.

Regardless– Bernie is a show pony…..and he likes it that way.

I cant believe i just wrote that sentence purposely….

alecj on February 3, 2016 at 2:01 PM

It’s Ted Cruz’s fault. Or something like that.

It couldn’t have anything to do with a lack of leadership and organizational skills in the Democrat organization… since we’ve never witnessed anything like that before. (/full-snark mode engaged)

s1im on February 3, 2016 at 2:30 PM

IMHO we still don’t know if Obama really won the presidency in 2008 or 2012.

bgibbs1000 on February 3, 2016 at 10:36 AM

I wonder, too…sometimes. But think on it and I do find it credible that there are actually enough Libtards out there to have gotten the guy elected.

Dr. ZhivBlago on February 3, 2016 at 4:30 PM

No, the media is missing it. The scary thing is that socialism is the winner in the Iowa caucus.

Oil Can on February 3, 2016 at 10:36 AM

Oil Can, you miss the point. The choice in Iowa for the Democrats was between socialism and empress worship. And why should we elect Democrats if that is all they can come up with?

bartbeast on February 3, 2016 at 5:11 PM

So somebody with no training was dragged out of the line of people waiting to vote and told to use the new Microsoft app to report the results. What could possibly go wrong?

Frankly, I find this a good sign for America.

We still live in a country where the average American voter can run a precinct caucus.

I don’t want a world where only the “party trained operative” is allowed to run a caucus.

Sackett on February 3, 2016 at 5:41 PM

OH! We know who won between Bernie and Hillary without looking.

The actions of the people running things in IOWA speak louder than anything. “The Machine” could NOT let Bernie win.

Nat George on February 3, 2016 at 5:59 PM

Think of the trees saved by not using paper!

TfromV on February 3, 2016 at 6:51 PM

If I have to hear about the never-proven allegations regarding JFK from whiny Republicans for the rest of my life — and, apparently, I do — you guys have to hear abou Bush.

urban elitist on February 3, 2016 at 12:40 PM

What, that he slept with Marilyn Monroe? Does that matter that much to you?

The Schaef on February 4, 2016 at 11:13 AM