Fox News debate draws higher ratings than the last debate, but still second-lowest of the cycle

posted at 11:21 am on January 29, 2016 by Allahpundit

These are preliminary ratings, with final data to come later today, but the two sides of the Trump divide are already arguing over whether the numbers confirm that Trump is driving the audience for the debates or disprove it. Variety’s best guess as to the total audience last night is 12 million people, which is half of what the first GOP debate last year drew but many times better than the one or two million viewers Trump’s campaign manager speculated it might draw. I don’t know what he was thinking in setting expectations that low. An average episode of Kelly’s own show last week during the same 9 p.m. ET timeslot in which the debate ran drew 2.6 million.

I also don’t know why people are keyed into national ratings for debate held in Iowa and aimed at Iowa voters four days before Iowa caucuses. Any Iowa ratings available yet?

Fox’s Trump-less debate had an 8.4 household rating, according to early Nielsen data from so-called metered markets…

By comparison, two of the cable channels that showed parts of Trump’s event, CNN and MSNBC, had about a quarter of Fox’s audience combined…

The most recent GOP debate, televised two weeks ago on the Fox Business Network, had a household rating of 7.4. So Thursday’s debate was bigger — but not by much…

The ratings held pretty steady between 9 and 11 p.m. Eastern, which means the audience was loyal even though Trump was absent.

The most interesting detail there is that the numbers didn’t drop off as the debate wore on, as you’d might expect if a bunch of Trump fans tuned in at the start, discovered he wasn’t there, and gradually peeled off. Given Trump’s media reach, most viewers (and non-viewers) probably knew beforehand that he wouldn’t be there and made their decision about whether to watch before it started. I’m surprised that the ratings for Trump’s rally are as low as they are, though, given that Trump fans obviously had a reason to tune in and produce eye-popping ratings to give him something new to crow about vis-a-vis Megyn Kelly and Fox. As it is, him pulling a quarter of Fox’s audience is roughly proportional (maybe a bit less at this point) to his overall share of the vote in Republican polls, and that’s not accounting for regular CNN and MSNBC viewers who watched out of habit. The liberal magazine Mother Jones was at the Trump rally last night and interviewed attendees, and they claim that they found a lot of people who like Trump and are curious about him — but few who say they’re going to caucus for him. Why didn’t Trump fans tune into, and turn out for, his rally for vets to give him bragging rights over Fox?

If you’re looking to spin Fox’s numbers as good, that’s easy. The fact that they beat the January 14th debate, which Trump attended, suggests that the audience for these things is involved in the overall race, not just in Trump or in rubbernecking at the Trump carnival. His support is overstated! He’s not the secret ingredient to drawing a crowd, at least not since the novelty of seeing him onstage with professional politicians wore off. Plus, why should anyone be surprised that later debates are underperforming earlier ones in the ratings now that the country’s had a chance to watch these same people square off multiple times? If you’re looking to spin Fox’s numbers as bad, that’s easy too. It’s no great shakes that this debate beat the last one, which was carried on a network (Fox Business) with far less media reach. As CNN noted in the write-up excerpted above, a better comparison for a Fox News debate would be the last debate held on CNN, on December 15th. That one drew a 12.2 rating and 18 million viewers, roughly 50 percent better than Fox’s preliminary figures. Fox also had various factors adding hype to this one — the proximity of the caucuses, the fact that the candidates are now engaged in open warfare with Trump and each other, and the suspense about how Kelly and the Fox moderators would handle Trump’s absence — and still underperformed CNN. Also, Fox’s numbers may look even worse a month from now since the next two debates are scheduled to be held on broadcast networks, which themselves have greater reach than cable. ABC is moderating the New Hampshire debate next Saturday night and CBS is in charge of the South Carolina debate a week later on February 13th. And needless to say, if Trump wins Iowa, the media frenzy over the fact that he really does stand a serious shot at being nominee will probably further goose casual viewers to tune in for those two.

Here’s Frank Luntz’s focus group grumbling about Trump’s absence last night. Exit question: Glass half-full or half-empty with Fox’s ratings for Trump fans?


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Comment pages: 1 2 3

Many perverted people like to watch a train wreck. They got their opportunity last night.

Mr. Arrogant on January 29, 2016 at 1:26 PM

Schadenfreude on January 29, 2016 at 1:28 PM

More from Trumpy’s “That was then, this is now” file:

How do you throw somebody out of the country that’s been here for 20 years?
You just can’t throw everybody out
June 2012

Amnesty should be done once the border is secure
Aug 2013

You have to give them a path to citizenship and you have to make it possible for them to succeed,” “You have to do that.”
aaaall the way back in June 2015

Of course this was when he was using illegal immigrants to build his towers so that was then….

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM

“On the one hand, this was a good turnout, because…”

“On the other hand, this was a bad turnout, because…”

You can certainly make a case either way. I suspect a certain amount of debate fatigue makes it unlikely this was ever going to be a huge debate.

Regardless, Trump has tried to make a case that the reason people watch these debates is, of course, Trump. He predicted just a couple of million viewers. He had a competing event just to draw viewers away.

Clearly, all those claims were embarrassingly wrong. I don’t think you can read too much into the numbers, except that the most glowing predictions for Trump were punctured. It doesn’t mean he won’t win the primary, but the chances of him launching a third-party bid just shrank considerably.

If I was feeling mean, I would say, “Make Trump Great Again!

Of course, I would never say such a thing.

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

First off her hairdo isn’t brand new.
Secondly it’s just a riot that anyone would make fun of any hair-do while defending Donald’s uh whatever the hell you call that.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 1:24 PM

Than man-style do sure is new.

And go ahead and goof on Donald Trump’s hair; I don’t care.

You seem to be missing my point, but that what all the Trump-haters do. Miss points. (Ethanol!)

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

Here’s Trump today saying that Cruz might not even be a citizen and that he’s some kind of Canadian anchor baby. Is this the kind of campaign you want, Trumpsters? Don’t you see that this man is burning all his bridges behind him? This scorched earth campaign he is runnning is really hurting our chances of winning a general election. More and more, Cruz supporters are now saying they can never support this man. My two younger sisters, who have always voted Republican, say they can never vote for him.

http://therightscoop.com/despicable-donald-trump-now-calling-ted-cruz-an-anchor-baby-video/

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:13 PM

Who knows if Cruz is a citizen or not, he is refusing to release his records and laughs off questions about it, like Obama. And only 30% of republicans will vote for a foreign born for president.

And I have three cousins and two uncles and four brothers and a cat and a goldfish who won’t vote for Cruz.

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

It will be very interesting to see how successful Trump is in getting his voters to the polls in the early states. We’re in fairly uncharted territory.

Tlaloc on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

TBSchemer on January 29, 2016 at 1:20 PM

No really, they were hoping for a Trump/Cruz ticket until Ted over reached and then started dropping like a stone in Iowa polls.

WestportSC on January 29, 2016 at 1:34 PM

I watched cspan where it was on. Others watched it streaming on Internet.

Phishmelt on January 29, 2016 at 1:34 PM

Just on the right, Tlaloc.

We have precedent on the left, and history repeats.

Schadenfreude on January 29, 2016 at 1:35 PM

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM

I hear ya. But trying to reach the Trumpsters on this site is pretty much a lost cause.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:35 PM

TheAlamos on January 29, 2016 at 1:03 PM

CSPAN’s viewer call in after Trump’s event was far more interesting than Luntz’s Dunces on FoxNews.

Luntz’s group obviously is staged for Rubio though the CSPAN callers which can be hit or miss still gave some insight into how Trump is attracting Democrats fed up with their own Beltway as usual party.

Several of the callers calmly, not Tlalocly, discussed (in so many words) how much more appealing Trump becomes to them than Killary or the Bernie.

viking01 on January 29, 2016 at 1:36 PM

Just on the right, Tlaloc.

We have precedent on the left, and history repeats.

Schadenfreude on January 29, 2016 at 1:35 PM

Care to clarify what precedents you are talking about?

Tlaloc on January 29, 2016 at 1:37 PM

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

Oh snap. Well, we never counted on the goldfish vote anyway.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:37 PM

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM

So you highlighted Cruz’s position for the past two years.

You’re also missing the Trump’s posts where he’s stating amnesty is going to make 11 million new democrat voters and passing immigration reform is suicide for the Republican party.

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 1:37 PM

one would think AP is dating Megyn Kelly. His handling of facts is surely equal to hers. Fox Business has far fewer outlets than Fox News. To compare the last debate to this one is like comparing apples to oranges. The full debate on a widely available network was over 20 million views. This Fox debate had about 12. Only someone who is delusionally anti Trump like Allahpundit would think that a win.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on January 29, 2016 at 1:39 PM

Oh snap. Well, we never counted on the goldfish vote anyway.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:37 PM

What do you have against the goldfish? He was born near the USA like Cruz was.

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 1:39 PM

CSPAN’s viewer call in after Trump’s event was far more interesting than Luntz’s Dunces on FoxNews.

Luntz’s group obviously is staged for Rubio though the CSPAN callers which can be hit or miss still gave some insight into how Trump is attracting Democrats fed up with their own Beltway as usual party.

Several of the callers calmly, not Tlalocly, discussed (in so many words) how much more appealing Trump becomes to them than Killary or the Bernie.

viking01 on January 29, 2016 at 1:36 PM

Luntz focus groups are not particularly useful. The sample sizes are just abysmally small.

A 2012 flashback:
http://nation.foxnews.com/frank-luntz/2012/10/16/watch-undecided-voters-react-romney-obama-round-2-live-only-fox-nation-tonight

Tlaloc on January 29, 2016 at 1:39 PM

But of course Pup :)

cmsinaz on January 29, 2016 at 1:40 PM

I hope Rand Paul gets second or third in Iowa just to see some heads explode.

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 12:49 PM

Rand is the only one of the Seven Dwarfs that I have respect for, and the only one I would pick as a potential VP for Trump. Schemer will blow a gasket at my surmise, but I think that is a no-brainer winning ticket, a forward-looking ticket, the emblem of a new coalition. Rubio, Cruz, et al, would just be a drag.

Cruz really sucked last night, while Rubio was his usual breathy, robotic, rushed, over-rehearsed self. Cruz sounds like a preacher robot who has had every GOP Inc. sound bite from the last 50 years programmed into his software. It’s just a string of conservative clichés, punctuated by the occasional emphatic honk. And his attempts at humor are no better than they were at age 18.

I’ve been predicting Trump by 5 in Iowa, with Cruz second. I think Cruz may drop to 3rd, with Trump by 10, after that debacle. I hope Rand places.

Joseph K on January 29, 2016 at 1:40 PM

QUESTION:

Where are these phony pious people who are supporting Trump?

TimeTraveler on January 29, 2016 at 1:03 PM

ANSWER:

Evangelicals understand this better than most. You read surveys that indicate the majority of Christian conservatives support Trump, and then you see the video: Trump on stage with pastors, looking pained as they pray over him, misidentifying key books in the New Testament, and in general doing a ludicrous imitation of a faithful Christian, the least holy roller ever. You wonder as you watch this: How could they be that dumb? He’s so obviously faking it.

They know that already. I doubt there are many Christian voters who think Trump could recite the Nicene Creed, or even identify it. Evangelicals have given up trying to elect one of their own. What they’re looking for is a bodyguard, someone to shield them from mounting (and real) threats to their freedom of speech and worship. Trump fits that role nicely, better in fact than many church-going Republicans. For eight years, there was a born-again in the White House. How’d that work out for Christians, here and in Iraq?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-is-shocking-vulgar-and-right-213572#ixzz3yf4gNOVz

Two things:

1. Removing Saddam Hussein is the main cause of the present situation in Middle East and the reign of Iran. Thanks to Born Again Christian Bush.

2. 2015 was the bloodiest year for Christians around the world in terms of mass murder, persecution and threats.

TheAlamos on January 29, 2016 at 1:41 PM

Cruz really sucked last night,

Joseph K on January 29, 2016 at 1:40 PM

Was given center stage and blew it…

WestportSC on January 29, 2016 at 1:44 PM

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on January 29, 2016 at 1:39 PM

FOX NEWS – 90 million cable/satellite homes
FOX BUSINESS – 80 million cable/satellite homes

Neitherleftorright on January 29, 2016 at 1:44 PM

The Hot Air comments section has officially become a Trumpster cesspool. It is Breitbart lite. I’ve commented here since 2009, but for now, I’m outta here.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM

Cruz sounds like a preacher robot who has had every GOP Inc. sound bite from the last 50 years programmed into his software. It’s just a string of conservative clichés, punctuated by the occasional emphatic honk.

Joseph K on January 29, 2016 at 1:40 PM

The “True Conservative’s” Mike Dukakis. Nerd alert!

WestportSC on January 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM

TheAlamos on January 29, 2016 at 1:41 PM

All because Bush claimed to be born again? This is your argument?
Weird.

Neitherleftorright on January 29, 2016 at 1:47 PM

Trump was still the draw. Folks tuned in to see how he would be attacked since he was not there. You also do not believe that faux would ever admit that the viewer numbers were really low after charging advertisers high viewer rates, do you. Never trust a liberal open borders globalist org. like faux.

they lie on January 29, 2016 at 11:32 AM

So Trump makes as much noise as possible about skipping the debate and holding his own event, predicts that no one will watch the debate if he’s not there, and … when that doesn’t happen at all, you declare it’s because people tuned in to hear about Trump from other candidates rather than tune in to watch Trump’s competing event.

Sure.

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 29, 2016 at 1:47 PM

No really, they were hoping for a Trump/Cruz ticket until Ted over reached and then started dropping like a stone in Iowa polls.

WestportSC on January 29, 2016 at 1:34 PM

Very true.

Buckshot Bill on January 29, 2016 at 1:54 PM

You seem to be missing my point, but that what all the Trump-haters do. Miss points. (Ethanol!)

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

That must be it.

Like you had a point.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 1:55 PM

Trump has better hair than AP, but AP has more pussycats.

Christien on January 29, 2016 at 2:02 PM

Wrong thread. Comment in moderation.

Christien on January 29, 2016 at 2:04 PM

Miss points. (Ethanol!)

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

Did you have a point to make on ethanol? Seems not. If Donny likes it you don’t need bother to form your own educated opinion.
Let’s talk about what really matters; hair.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 2:08 PM

All you Chumps can save yourself the trouble of pretending to think for yourselves and just post a picture of Donald with a caption under it that says:

Yeah what he says.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 2:08 PM

With those ratings Trump has no leverage over the debates anymore.

CW20 on January 29, 2016 at 11:44 AM

Apparently you completely missed the fact that BOTH the Fox event AND the CNN event were mostly about Trump.

Trump thus demonstrated that he has TOTAL CONTROL over the media and the debates.

Trump won BIG.

landlines on January 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM

Who knows if Cruz is a citizen or not,

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

Everyone knows he is a citizen. Even birthers, which are a fringe, generally argue that he was a citizen at birth, just not a natural born citizen.

Of course, they’re never able to really prove there is a distinction. At any rate, the law doesn’t recognize any distinction.

This is the old FUD technique of creating fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 29, 2016 at 2:11 PM

1. Removing Saddam Hussein is the main cause of the present situation in Middle East and the reign of Iran. Thanks to Born Again Christian Bush.

TheAlamos on January 29, 2016 at 1:41 PM

I get tired of this idiotic assertion. Saddam Hussein was in full control of Iraq when Iran kidnapped our embassy staff and held them for 444 days. The Middle East hasn’t been at peace since the end of the Ottoman Empire.

And the present situation in the Middle East is caused by Barack Obama and the Arab Spring. It wasn’t Bush who tried to pressure Mubarak out of Egypt, Assad out of Syria, and forced Khaddafi out of Libya.

I’d expect such nonsense from an Obama sycophant desperately trying to shift blame.

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 29, 2016 at 2:15 PM

With those ratings Trump has no leverage over the debates anymore.

CW20 on January 29, 2016 at 11:44 AM

Apparently you completely missed the fact that BOTH the Fox event AND the CNN event were mostly about Trump.

Trump thus demonstrated that he has TOTAL CONTROL over the media and the debates.

Trump won BIG.

landlines on January 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM

I’m about to go get lunch. I suppose that’s also all about Trump?

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 29, 2016 at 2:16 PM

All you Chumps can save yourself the trouble of pretending to think for yourselves and just post a picture of Donald with a caption under it that says:

Yeah what he says.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 2:08 PM

HA, that is great!

So true….

Planned Parenthood, no way…Trump for it, yeah that’s good.

Subsidies, no way…Trump for it, yeah, that’s good.

Reid evil…Trump supported him, yeah he was smart.

It’s hilarious watching the spin, the dance of the Trumpette’s…

right2bright on January 29, 2016 at 2:24 PM

You seem to be missing my point, but that what all the Trump-haters do. Miss points. (Ethanol!)

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 1:33 PM

No we see his historical support of bail outs, Planned Parenthood, Federal Subsidies, tariff’s, KELO, Hillary, Reid, Schumer, Crist, Rahm, Weiner, Sharpton…we see it, and we see your point…you don’t see it.

But you hear what he says, and you like it…not seeing that just a couple of years ago, months ago in some cases, he was saying the opposite.

Which was going to be exposed last night at the debate, just like it was for Cruz, Rubio, and others.

But you did what Trump lovers do…Miss points.

right2bright on January 29, 2016 at 2:29 PM

The Hot Air comments section has officially become a Trumpster cesspool. It is Breitbart lite. I’ve commented here since 2009, but for now, I’m outta here.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM

So true. The Trumpsters are so cynical about politicians: they are all corrupt, game the system to benefit themselves, don’t keep their promises, repeatedly lie, and are phony, phony, phony.

Yet their cynicism becomes blind adulation when it comes to Trump. A man who is corrupt and immoral and has gamed the system his entire career solely to benefit himself. He is not a man of his word, having screwed over his wives and his business associates. He lies constantly, and does it with such facility it makes any decent person’s skin crawl. And he is the consummate phony, politicizing both 9/11 and our veterans to help his candidacy, when his history shows no previous interest in assisting 9/11 first responders or veterans–especially the disabled vendors he wanted removed from 5th Avenue because they were destroying the elitist aura of Trump Tower and environs.

He admitted last night’s event was all about him and the fact he had to “stand up for himself” against mean old Fox News–by USING the veterans, of course. Trump has used people his entire life. Why stop now?

With Trump, the ends always justify the means.

If you feel cynical about our political system, you are certainly justified, but please, be consistent about casting a wary eye on those in power. Trump is as elitist, as establishment, as corrupt as any politician. And, in many cases, more so.

Your inconsistency and enthusiastic willingness to turn a blind eye to Trump’s sins is why anti-Trumpers are disgusted by the cult here.

Intelligent people who are serious about voting responsibly watched the debate last night. The LIV’s who need to be entertained watched The Trump Show.

Meredith on January 29, 2016 at 2:39 PM

TarheelBen,

Take care, and see you soon!

Christien on January 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM

Joseph K

So you see a Trump/Rand Paul ticket as a good thing? One of them says, don’t let them in here, and the other says, we won’t fight them over there.
This is precisely where we stood as hyper-isolationists when both Hitler and Pearl Harbor greeted us. They built war machines while we naively enjoyed “peace in our time”…until.
Now, however, we’re talking crazed people seeking nukes and missiles. Not so easy to rebuild a war machine in time after a few cities disappear.

Don L on January 29, 2016 at 2:54 PM

we see your point

right2bright on January 29, 2016 at 2:29 PM

Funny, because everything you’ve written indicates you don’t.

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 2:55 PM

Everyone knows he is a citizen.
There Goes the Neighborhood on January 29, 2016 at 2:11 PM

Of Canada.

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 3:02 PM

The Hot Air comments section has officially become a Trumpster cesspool. It is Breitbart lite. I’ve commented here since 2009, but for now, I’m outta here.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM

You are too good for this world. Best wishes for a wonderful life in Cruz’s home country while President Trump rules over the idiot masses in the USA who have failed to realize the greatness that it the GOP.

Fare thee well, Hiawatha. Fare thee well, mighty warrior.

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 3:02 PM

Excellent article.
Not for you Trump haters.

Here’s one paragraph:

We have the “news-dancer” on Fox News who has become center stage. She is reveling in the fact that she has brought the game master who ran the beauty contest to heel. She has done more damage to the Republican Party and the conservative movement than any single person. In the first debate she pit all the other candidates against Donald Trump. She was savoring the chance to do it again, putting her career above the issues important to the country. This is typical by the way of all in the media. Everyone wants to be center stage in this feeding frenzy.

http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/2016/01/blood-in-the-water-purists-vs-pragmatists/

Belle on January 29, 2016 at 3:05 PM

Meredith on January 29, 2016 at 2:39 PM {Trump}A man who is corrupt and immoral and has gamed the system his entire career solely to benefit himself. He is not a man of his word, having screwed over his wives and his business associates. He lies constantly, and does it with such facility it makes any decent person’s skin crawl. And he is the consummate phony, politicizing both 9/11 and our veterans to help his candidacy, when his history shows no previous interest in assisting 9/11 first responders or veterans–especially the disabled vendors he wanted removed from 5th Avenue because they were destroying the elitist aura of Trump Tower and environs.

So true and inarguable.
Are we are perfectly willing to react to having what some consider a dangerous narcissist in the White House that we’re going to replace him with a megalomaniacal narcissist? Aren’t we then swapping a cottonmouth for a rattler and thinking things will get better?
This is the new definition of insanity.

Don L on January 29, 2016 at 3:06 PM

Rand is the only one of the Seven Dwarfs that I have respect for, and the only one I would pick as a potential VP for Trump. Schemer will blow a gasket at my surmise, but I think that is a no-brainer winning ticket, a forward-looking ticket, the emblem of a new coalition. Rubio, Cruz, et al, would just be a drag.

Rand is the only on of those clowns who is acceptable.

Cruz really sucked last night, while Rubio was his usual breathy, robotic, rushed, over-rehearsed self. Cruz sounds like a preacher robot who has had every GOP Inc. sound bite from the last 50 years programmed into his software. It’s just a string of conservative clichés, punctuated by the occasional emphatic honk. And his attempts at humor are no better than they were at age 18.

Agreed. Cruz has skated under the radar for too long, Trump did everyone a favor and showed what Cruz is like when Trump is not standing right next to him absorbing the flak.

I’ve been predicting Trump by 5 in Iowa, with Cruz second. I think Cruz may drop to 3rd, with Trump by 10, after that debacle. I hope Rand places.

Joseph K on January 29, 2016 at 1:40 PM

Cruz’s campaign was already crowing about second place being a symbolic victory before the debate, so who knows now?!

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 3:08 PM

This is worth posting again..
PappyD61 on January 29, 2016 at 1:06 PM

No it’s not

Jason58 on January 29, 2016 at 3:09 PM

But you hear what he says, and you like it…not seeing that just a couple of years ago, months ago in some cases, he was saying the opposite.

Which was going to be exposed last night at the debate, just like it was for Cruz, Rubio, and others.

right2bright on January 29, 2016 at 2:29 PM

So, let me get this straight: You condemn Trump for potentially risking his lead by subjecting himself to risks that the losers had to subject themselves to in order to gain popularity at Trump’s expense?

That doesn’t sound like smart politics to me. Does it to you?

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 3:12 PM

This is precisely where we stood as hyper-isolationists when both Hitler and Pearl Harbor greeted us. They built war machines while we naively enjoyed “peace in our time”…until.
Now, however, we’re talking crazed people seeking nukes and missiles. Not so easy to rebuild a war machine in time after a few cities disappear.

Don L on January 29, 2016 at 2:54 PM

While the Japanese had some Kamikazes and were more suicidal than the Germans, neither was insane enough to strap suicide vests on their own children, stone women to death for being raped or trap young women inside a burning building because their heads were not covered. Islam required a special kind of crazy.

bw222 on January 29, 2016 at 3:12 PM

Trump has better hair than AP, but AP has more pussycats.

Christien on January 29, 2016 at 2:02 PM

Trump is an Alpha male. Alpha males don’t have cats.

bw222 on January 29, 2016 at 3:17 PM

If Trump wins Iowa, join TarheelBen.

Christien on January 29, 2016 at 3:20 PM

we see your point

right2bright on January 29, 2016 at 2:29 PM

Funny, because everything you’ve written indicates you don’t.

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 2:55 PM

If you’d remove your hat we’d be able to see your point.
ba-dum-bum

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 3:31 PM

right2bright on January 29, 2016 at 2:29 PM

So, let me get this straight: You condemn Trump for potentially risking his lead by subjecting himself to risks that the losers had to subject themselves to in order to gain popularity at Trump’s expense?

That doesn’t sound like smart politics to me. Does it to you?

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 3:12 PM

You lost him at “So”

fossten on January 29, 2016 at 3:49 PM

If you’d remove your hat we’d be able to see your point.
ba-dum-bum

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 3:31 PM

I sincerely hope you have a day job.

fossten on January 29, 2016 at 3:50 PM

You are too good for this world. Best wishes for a wonderful life in Cruz’s home country while President Trump rules over the idiot masses in the USA who have failed to realize the greatness that it the GOP.

Fare thee well, Hiawatha. Fare thee well, mighty warrior.

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 3:02 PM

Spoken like a true moronic Trump cultist.

But I think I’ll stay in the country and just move to a different web site where there is a little more sanity. After all, I’m a retired Navy veteran and gave this country the best years of my life.

Cheers – and good luck winning a general election, when now a full 50% of GOP of non-Trump primary voters say they will not support Trump in the general. Your burn-it-down scorched earth tactics have worked. Enjoy preznit Hillary.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 3:51 PM

Spoken like a true moronic Trump cultist.

But I think I’ll stay in the country and just move to a different web site where there is a little more sanity. After all, I’m a retired Navy veteran and gave this country the best years of my life.

Cheers – and good luck winning a general election, when now a full 50% of GOP of non-Trump primary voters say they will not support Trump in the general. Your burn-it-down scorched earth tactics have worked. Enjoy preznit Hillary.

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 3:51 PM

I thought you were done? Yet you keep on talking…

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 3:54 PM

Pro Trump supporters must understand, sometimes your guy loses too. Trump took a calculated risk and lost. As I said in the Fox news open thread, Trump gambled that he was the show. He lost, big. I think that Trump and his team panicked over the damage he received from Cruz and overreacted. Now his media image is all torn up, it will effect how his campaign goes forward. That kind of damage does not go away. Well played Senator Cruz, well played. The other two big winners were Rubio and yes Fox broadcasting. Somebody had to fill the space, and Rubio did(very effectively.) Fox won by the simple fact, they stood up to the Trump bully. Trump’s campaign strategy relied on part begging, part bullying the networks for free air time. Fox blew that all a part last night. Will this move the needle in Iowa, I doubt it. But down the line, it cripples Trump in South Carolina and the southern primary. Cruz’s team gambled big, and won.

flackcatcher on January 29, 2016 at 4:14 PM

TarheelBen on January 29, 2016 at 3:51 PM

You still here? I thought you left. Hey … what’s up, doc?

Nomennovum on January 29, 2016 at 4:32 PM

If you’d remove your hat we’d be able to see your point.
ba-dum-bum

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 3:31 PM

I sincerely hope you have a day job.

fossten on January 29, 2016 at 3:50 PM

Lighten up Francis.

Of course I have a day job, I’m on the clock.
You think I’d waste my own time commenting on HA? Rarely.
I have a life and this isn’t really all that fun. Especially sober.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 4:32 PM

Why didn’t Trump fans tune into, and turn out for, his rally for vets to give him bragging rights over Fox?

Because CNN made that impossible by constantly cutting in and out for commentary by their talking heads, and having a commercial break every 60-80 seconds. I tried to watch their coverage of it, until it became apparent they were using it as a backdrop instead of actually ‘covering it’.

GuitarSlinger on January 29, 2016 at 4:34 PM

Lighten up Francis.

Of course I have a day job, I’m on the clock.
You think I’d waste my own time commenting on HA? Rarely.
I have a life and this isn’t really all that fun. Especially sober.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 4:32 PM

Dour commenter telling others to lighten up.

And then after commenting all day tells everyone they have a life.

Oh this is too rich!

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM

Because CNN made that impossible by constantly cutting in and out for commentary by their talking heads, and having a commercial break every 60-80 seconds. I tried to watch their coverage of it, until it became apparent they were using it as a backdrop instead of actually ‘covering it’.

GuitarSlinger on January 29, 2016 at 4:34 PM

CSPAN covered it very well I hear. I watched it online.

NWConservative on January 29, 2016 at 4:42 PM

More from Trumpy’s “That was then, this is now” file:

How do you throw somebody out of the country that’s been here for 20 years?
You just can’t throw everybody out
June 2012

Amnesty should be done once the border is secure
Aug 2013

You have to give them a path to citizenship and you have to make it possible for them to succeed,” “You have to do that.”
aaaall the way back in June 2015

Of course this was when he was using illegal immigrants to build his towers so that was then….

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM

First, I haven’t made up my mind who I will vote for.

Second, every candidate on both sides have flipped on this issue and many others. Go figure, they are running for office trying to get a political tailwind. So what’s your point??

Third, You left out the part where Trump would allow them to come back in to become citizens through the legal process. That is not inconsistent with “I’ll deport them” with a kind of amnesty through following our laws.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a filter or criteria that essentailly said that even though they came here illegally, they otherwise met all of the requirements to become a citizen and allowing them to stay.

But the problem is, if you are here illegally, it’s against the law. So do you ignore the law like Obama with what I think have been catostrophic impact on our governments to provide all the free services and benefits of a citizen to those who have not paid into the system?

We are either a nation of laws or we are a nation at the mercy of the political agenda of whoever is in the White House.

BMF on January 29, 2016 at 4:45 PM

BMF on January 29, 2016 at 4:45 PM

Hi Good morning! I take it you just woke up and decided to join the fracas for the first time this entire election cycle. That’s the only explanation I have for you not having any idea where I’m coming from.
Can’t help that and I’m not going to explain the past 6 months of dynamics for you but I’ll try give you some hints.

Every candidate on both sides have flipped on this issue and many others. Go figure, they are running for office trying to get a political tailwind. So what’s your point??

Go figure, at least you acknowledge that but you see Trump does it it’s terrific and tremendous and he’s evolving. Any other candidates are lying spineless panderers.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a filter or criteria that essentailly said that even though they came here illegally, they otherwise met all of the requirements to become a citizen and allowing them to stay.

That is called amnesty which you might not know is a fantastic idea when Trump says it and then doesn’t and then does but any other candidate who supports amnesty is an establishment hack and hates America. Personally I am strongly against amnesty and never forgave Reagan for it.

But the problem is, if you are here illegally, it’s against the law.

That is the problem.

So do you ignore the law like Obama with what I think have been catostrophic impact on our governments to provide all the free services and benefits of a citizen to those who have not paid into the system?

Neither. How about enforcing our immigration laws, strengthen our borders, and not reward people who do not respect our sovereignty with free stuff and a ticket to the front of the line ahead of people coming here legally.

We are either a nation of laws or we are a nation at the mercy of the political agenda of whoever is in the White House.

Don’t see why those two are mutually exclusive.

Buttercup on January 29, 2016 at 5:43 PM

…and Trump STILL won that debate…..

ProfShadow on January 29, 2016 at 5:53 PM

Fox News debate draws higher ratings than the last debate, but still second-lowest of the cycle

Boy! That is one way to spin it, but the right way to look at it is thus:

1st Fox debate w/ Trump, 25 million viewers
2nd Fox debate sans Trump, 13 million viewers
That is down 48% from the last Fox debate.

The other aspect to this is that more Iowans watched the Vet event than the debate as it was televised on many locale outlets.

Trump showed these biotches the “Trump Hand!”

The game right now is to win Iowa and Trump is endeavoring to do just that.

esnap on January 29, 2016 at 9:15 PM

OK, Dudes and Dudettes, I’m moving house, my apartment is a jungle of boxes and I was up until 0230 last night playing with my new friends here. I am off now, so keep the rubber side down, the shiny side up and keep on truckin’!
.
for Schad, NWConservative, Smokey Blonde. Puppy and all of the rest of you, I’ll leave you with a few words of Frenchy patriotism; Catchy tune, too.
.

Allons enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé!
Contre nous de la tyrannie,
L’étendard sanglant est levé …
or this version;
Arise, children of our Nation,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyranny’s
Bloody banner is raised …
.
FWIW, a soft-hearted french doctor who disliked the idea of criminals’ suffering during execution designed a gadget that would mitigate the suffering of the condemned. It saw much use during ‘The Terror’, We know him as M. Docteur Le Guillotin.
.
Far be it from me to advocate for such a barbaric device in our beloved Nation, which is of course the Best of All Possible Worlds, and not in any need of such things in any way shape or form.

meerbock on January 29, 2016 at 11:25 PM

Like it or not, more people watched the debate because Trump was not there. The best thing Trump EVER did for the Republican Party was to stay away.

In the meantime, Trump is keeping the money he supposedly collected to help veterans. That is par for the course for the dirty liberal.

DannoJyd on January 30, 2016 at 2:27 AM

Not on the debate, but can anyone tell me what the deal is with Rubio’s fashion choices?

Younggod on January 30, 2016 at 3:38 AM

Trump is keeping the money he supposedly collected to help veterans.

DannoJyd on January 30, 2016 at 2:27 AM

lying sack

Younggod on January 30, 2016 at 3:40 AM

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