An ancient socialist sounded more like the frontrunner than Clinton last night

posted at 8:01 am on January 18, 2016 by Jazz Shaw

It’s not often that I get the chance to say this, but the Democrats’ debate in South Carolina last night was actually worth tuning in for and delivered some red meat in a race which had thus far been tired and formulaic. In previous outings, the only heat was provided by Martin O’Malley, sniping at both Clinton and Sanders in an effort to get somebody to notice him. Meanwhile, Clinton talked past Sanders, attacking Republicans, and Bernie played the part of Hillary’s number one fan. That formula was washed away last night. O’Malley was still barking, but he largely faded into the background as Clinton slammed Sanders at every turn and the Vermont Senator hit back on everything from her Wall Street ties to her image as more of the same old politics. You can read a transcript of the debate here if you missed it.

One of the first things that struck me was the biased, racially charged nature of all three of the candidates’ answers. The event was hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus and took place in South Carolina, where the Democrats really need to turn out the black vote heavily. That wasn’t lost on any of the three contenders and they raced to outdo each other in terms of being tuned in to the Black Lives Matter movement. Clinton in particular went all in on that front as soon as she got the opportunity to talk about the police.

Well, sadly it’s reality, and it has been heartbreaking, and incredibly outraging to see the constant stories of young men like Walter Scott, as you said, who have been killed by police officers. Their needs to be a concerted effort to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system.

And, that requires a very clear, agenda for retraining police officers, looking at ways to end racial profiling, finding more ways to really bring the disparities that stalk our country into high relief. One out of three African American men may well end up going to prison. That’s the statistic. I want people hear to think what we would be doing if it was one out of three white men, and very often, the black men are arrested, convicted and incarcerated for offensive that do not lead to the same results for white men.

This is a tripwire topic for Clinton and she may have sprung the trap on herself last night. Notice that she’s not talking about a handful of bad cops or a suspect department in Chicago or New Orleans. She was mouthing the words of BLM leaders and indicting the entire criminal justice system. That no doubt plays well in South Carolina, but we’ll see what sort of reaction it receives in Iowa and New Hampshire. Also, Clinton clearly realizes that she needs to turn out the black vote nationally in the same numbers that Barack Obama managed in order to win, but she can’t afford to lose the white vote either. Rest assured that some of those quotes will show up in the GOP oppo file this fall.

Speaking of Obama, another pitfall awaiting both Clinton and Sanders was their competition to see who could hug the President more tightly. For her part, Clinton slammed Sanders for criticizing Obama in 2011 (a hilarious charge considering everything she said about him in 2008) and sounded for all the world like she was promising a third Obama term, particularly when it comes to Obamacare. (ABC News)

“We’ve accomplished so much already. I do not want to see the Republicans repeal it, and I don’t want to start over again with a contentious debate,” Clinton said. “To tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, I think is the wrong direction.”

Sanders called it a “disingenuous” attack. He made clear, as he did throughout the night, that he’s not satisfied with the status quo.

“No one is tearing this up. We’re going to go forward,” Sanders said.

As soon as the opening presented itself, Sanders went into full Elizabeth Warren mode and started linking Clinton to Wall Street and big banks at every opportunity. (Politico)

“The first difference is I don’t take money from big banks. I don’t get personal speaking fees from Goldman Sachs,” Sanders said, eliciting a few jeers and boos from the audience…

“I find it very strange that a major financial institution that pays $5 billion in fines for breaking the law — not one of their executives is prosecuted, while kids who smoke marijuana, they get a jail sentence,” Sanders said.

Later, Sanders returned to the topic, vowing, “Goldman Sachs is not going to bring forth a secretary of the Treasury for a Sanders administration.”

The one place where Clinton really seemed to land some punches on Sanders was on guns and it played very well with the obviously anti-gun crowd. Bernie tried to deflect the charges, but it was probably Clinton’s best moment. (Bloomberg)

Clinton responded with a lengthy recounting of Sanders’s record, arguing that “he has voted with the NRA, with the gun lobby numerous times.”

She continued, as Sanders looked down at his lectern: “He voted against the Brady Bill five times. He voted for what we call the Charleston loophole. He voted for immunity for gun makers and sellers, which the NRA said was the most important gun legislation in 20 years. He voted to let guns go on to Amtrak, guns go into national parks. He voted against doing research to figure out how we can save lives.”

The crowd, either by chance or design, was definitely pro-Clinton. She got a lot more applause breaks whereas the ovations for Sanders seemed more polite and measured. That may be because of the heavy minority makeup of the audience, since one poll after another shows that Sanders is having trouble breaking through with that segment of the Democrats’ base. Still, the reception of Bernie’s message around the country – at least going by the press coverage this morning – was far more enthusiastic than what we saw in that room last night.

Two thing were clear when the dust settled: Hillary Clinton has realized that she’s got an actual fight on her hands and she’s coming after Sanders hard. And Bernie, for his part, is not on the stage as an “issues candidate” trying to inject his priorities into the debate. Sanders actually believes he can win this thing and he’s ready to throw everything including the kitchen sink at Hillary. The national polls still make it look like Clinton wins the primary in a walk, but if Bernie can manage to win Iowa and New Hampshire, I think I’ve got to finally give him a better than zero percent chance at it. We can only hope that’s true because I remain convinced that no matter how far our country has strayed of late, we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

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Sanders went into full Elizabeth Warren mode and started linking Clinton to Wall Street and big banks at every opportunity
================================================

Sanders, Clinton Boost Criticisms During Debate
Associated Press
Associated Press

Published on Jan 17, 2016
*************************
Turning up the temperature, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders tangled repeatedly in Sunday’s presidential debate over who’s tougher on gun control and Wall Street and who’s got a better vision for the future of health care in America. (Jan. 17)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFuFeSnDWUU&feature=youtu.be

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:07 AM

Um I thought we did all ready elect a socialist?

jams on January 18, 2016 at 8:10 AM

O’Malley, Sanders Attack Clinton Over Her Wall Street Ties

Mon, Jan 18

Martin O’Malley and Bernie Sanders criticize Hillary Clinton over her ties to Wall Street during Sunday’s Democratic debate in South Carolina.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/omalley-sanders-attack-clinton-over-her-wall-street-ties-603523651700
=======================================

Watch Clinton, Sanders Trade Barbs on Health Care

Mon, Jan 18

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders face off over health care during Sunday’s Democratic debate in South Carolina.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/watch-clinton-sanders-trade-barbs-on-health-care-603512387888

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:10 AM

Totally not photoshopped pic of the debate.

justltl on January 18, 2016 at 8:10 AM

Old white people. That’s your Democrat leadership.

fossten on January 18, 2016 at 8:11 AM

The crowd, either by chance or design, was definitely pro-Clinton.
=======================

Poor O’malley, he only wanted 10 seconds!!!!!

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:11 AM

We can only hope that’s true because I remain convinced that no matter how far our country has strayed of late, we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

Why not ? The House and Senate are lousy with them regardless of what label in which they wrap themselves, and it is not as if 0bama is a raging capitalist.

F X Muldoon on January 18, 2016 at 8:13 AM

Bernie Sanders Says Bill Clinton’s ‘Behavior Was Deplorable’

Mon, Jan 18

Bernie Sanders is asked about past comments that he made about Bill Clinton during Sunday’s Democratic debate in South Carolina.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/bernie-sanders-says-bill-clintons-behavior-was-deplorable-603530307739

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:14 AM

I think they’re paying O’Malley to stay in the race..

dougmva on January 18, 2016 at 8:15 AM

We can only hope that’s true because I remain convinced that no matter how far our country has strayed of late, we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

why not? social security and medicare are both socialist programs

nonpartisan on January 18, 2016 at 8:18 AM

Totally not photoshopped pic of the debate.

justltl on January 18, 2016 at 8:10 AM

Heh!

bernzright777 on January 18, 2016 at 8:18 AM

Old white people. That’s your Democrat leadership.

fossten on January 18, 2016 at 8:11 AM

from the party that calls themselves diverse
heh

cmsinaz on January 18, 2016 at 8:19 AM

Two thing were clear when the dust settled: Hillary Clinton has realized that she’s got an actual fight on her hands and she’s coming after Sanders hard. And Bernie, for his part, is not on the stage as an “issues candidate” trying to inject his priorities into the debate. Sanders actually believes he can win this thing
=============================

Maybe’s, it’ll be a CivilWar in a ReCreate DNC Riots of 1968,
in a Progressive Vrs. Socialist Winner take all,

or nots!!

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:20 AM

Jazz wrote, “…I remain convinced that no matter how far our country has strayed of late, we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.”

The leadership of the Democratic Party was suborned by real-deal, old-school Marxist socialists during the second term of the Bush Administration, when the moderate, traditionally Democratic Blue Dogs were driven out. While President Obama is not, unlike Bernie Sanders, an avowed socialist, saying he is one based upon his actions and professed beliefs would be an easy argument to make.

The Democratic Party is now a hard-Left, socialist party–perhaps not on the state level across the board, but certainly the socialist Left sets the agenda, shapes the platform and frames The Narrative.

There is a very good chance Hillary (or even Bernie) will win the general election. So yeah, we’re that far gone.

troyriser_gopftw on January 18, 2016 at 8:20 AM

For her part, Clinton slammed Sanders for criticizing Obama in 2011 (a hilarious charge considering everything she said about him in 2008)

morning joe crew noticed that too and the moderators didn’t want to…

cmsinaz on January 18, 2016 at 8:21 AM

I can’t be the one who hears, “and your little dog too” every time ClinTron ends a sentence.

MJBrutus on January 18, 2016 at 8:25 AM

Ten Seconds:
————–

Martin O’Malley wants ‘just 10 seconds’
On Politics
Cooper Allen, USA TODAY 11:53 p.m. EST
January 17, 2016
********************

Video
(More..)
========

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/01/17/martin-omalley-democratic-debate-10-seconds/78949846/

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:27 AM

Um I thought we did all ready elect a socialist?

jams on January 18, 2016 at 8:10 AM

More precisely, a stealth muzztard sympathiser, oath-breaking, traitorous “socialist” in the 1929 sense – ride that wave until you can clamp down on EVERYone.

RL on January 18, 2016 at 8:27 AM

Well,…………………….TWITTER IS DOWN?

Something is technically wrong.

Thanks for noticing—we’re going to fix it up and have things back to normal soon.

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:32 AM

Off topic. Cruz is saying now that trump could be a democrat. Cruz is starting to sound and act more and more like establishment gop every day…..

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM

A socialist is simply a communist who hasn’t moved the selective fire switch to full auto,…yet.

devan95 on January 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM

But jazz, an ancient socialist is the front runner….and her name is clinton.

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:35 AM

justltl. Your photos lately have been exemplary. :-D

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:37 AM

But jazz, an ancient socialist is the front runner….and her name is clinton.

In my own defense, one of them is still slightly more ancient than the other

Jazz Shaw on January 18, 2016 at 8:39 AM

We can only hope that’s true because I remain convinced that no matter how far our country has strayed of late, we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

O_o A little late for that isn’t it?

Pattosensei on January 18, 2016 at 8:39 AM

…10 seconds…the moderators were a joke!

JugEarsButtHurt on January 18, 2016 at 8:40 AM

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:35 AM

Not really. She seems that way because she is a socialist when talking to a crowd of socialists.

She’s a neocon when talking to a crowd of neocons. She’s a capitalist when talking to a crowd of capitalists. IOW, she’s a shapeshifter with no ideology or character.

MJBrutus on January 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM

we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

What happened in 2008 and 2012?

OK allowing for this being an openly declared socialist we are talking about, The Special Little Snowflakes of the Millennial Generation may have something to say about whether the US will elect an avowed socialist as president.

I believe it is likely that I will live to see it happen, albeit not in 2016.

We lost this war back in the 1960s, when we ceded control of higher education and much of the mass media to the left.

MidniteRambler on January 18, 2016 at 8:43 AM

Killary must be in shock to find out she’s got a real contender in the old curmudgeon. No hiding in the closet with her server. I’d like to see the criinal justice system indicted, too, if she’s not brought to trial.

Kissmygrits on January 18, 2016 at 8:45 AM

Jazz since you were forced to watch the love fest last night. Did Clintoon break out the southern accent? I mean they were south.

dougmva on January 18, 2016 at 8:45 AM

We can only hope that’s true because I remain convinced that no matter how far our country has strayed of late, we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

I pray that you are right, Jazz, but given the proclivities of a large slice of educators, especially the professors, a large youth turnout could be the recipe for a hard left turn.

We’ve been on a leftward trajectory for too long, to our detriment, but worse days could lie ahead considering the fact that the masses are continually being bombarded with leftist bilge from Hollywood, the media, the education system, and pop culture at large.

I hope that the silent majority is aware enough to realize the importance of turning out to vote and of instilling common sense and independent thinking in their children in the face of this leftward push.

hillbillyjim on January 18, 2016 at 8:45 AM

I mean they were IN THE south.

dougmva on January 18, 2016 at 8:45 AM

dang keyboards..

dougmva on January 18, 2016 at 8:46 AM

Time for Bernie to consider hiring dedicated pre-tasters of his food. And buying mirrors to check the underside of any car he’s going to be in.

OttoParts on January 18, 2016 at 8:48 AM

MJBrutus. Roger that on hillary. She really has no core beliefs or moral fiber at all. And if she were Pinocchio, we could use her nose as a zipline to the moon……

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:54 AM

I hope that the silent majority is aware enough to realize the importance of turning out to vote and of instilling common sense and independent thinking in their children in the face of this leftward push.

hillbillyjim on January 18, 2016 at 8:45 AM

I am not sure the “silent majority” is an actual majority anymore, thanks to the last half century’s progressive assault on education and media in the US.

MidniteRambler on January 18, 2016 at 8:57 AM

Oops!

Gabriel Debenedetti [email protected] 7h7 hours ago South Carolina, USA

Just in: @BernieSanders raised $1m on Sunday, according to his campaign.

https://twitter.com/gdebenedetti

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 8:57 AM

Roger that on hillary. She really has no core beliefs or moral fiber at all

Power for the sake of power is a core belief.

MidniteRambler on January 18, 2016 at 8:58 AM

Otto. Can he still let contractors into his house occasionally? Like the guy from the gas company, even though sanders has an electric heat pump??? :-D

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:58 AM

Thanks for taking one for the team, Jazz. Bernie should embrace being pro gun.

rbj on January 18, 2016 at 8:59 AM

Sanders actually believes he can win this thing and he’s ready to throw everything including the kitchen sink at Hillary.

He’s nowhere near the kitchen sink until he starts hitting her on the FBI investigating her, her lack of trustworthiness and her running cover for her sexual predator husband. Until then, he’s not really trying

rcpjr on January 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM

Otto. Can he still let contractors into his house occasionally? Like the guy from the gas company, even though sanders has an electric heat pump??? :-D

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:58 AM

He can, if he’s feeling lucky. And only after careful vetting :)

OttoParts on January 18, 2016 at 9:06 AM

rcpjr on January 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM

Not to mention her disastrous term as Sec o’ State. If he ain’t talking Libya he ain’t tryin’.

MJBrutus on January 18, 2016 at 9:08 AM

we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

We elected the Bush folks three times.

Magicjava on January 18, 2016 at 9:11 AM

OH POOP,…the NKGoons are watching the Debate,
and tweeting, just like the GOP Debate:
—————————————-

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 2m2 minutes ago

Bernard Sanders praises nations such as Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea for providing health care as basic right of all workers.
===========

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 6m6 minutes ago

Martin Omalley babbles in remarkably dim and obscure fashion.
=============

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 10m10 minutes ago

Hillary Clinton demands that US workers pay vastly increased tribute to insurance corporations in order to obtain medical treatment.
===========

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 15m15 minutes ago

Kim Il-Sung University professor describes US democrats as party of reactionary fascism, while republicans represent fascistic reaction.
==========

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 17m17 minutes ago

Bernard Sanders loudly demands revolution and forced mental hospitalization for social undesirables such as drug addicts.
==========

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 19m19 minutes ago

Hillary Clinton grudgingly admits that peasants require heroin and other opiates in order to endure the daily pain of life in United States.
================

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 22m22 minutes ago

Bernard Sanders shouts in bewildered bafflement that he is hard of hearing.
============

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 23m23 minutes ago

Martin Omalley complains of difficulty many US workers find in obtaining marijuana and other narcotics.
============

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 25m25 minutes ago

Bernard Sanders shouts loudly concerning unspecified problems.
=================

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 27m27 minutes ago

Hillary Clinton describes US as bigoted racist nation in which police slaughter negroes with impunity, under laws enacted by her husband.
============

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 36m36 minutes ago

Hillary Clinton demands more and less expensive opiates for US masses already dulled into senseless submission by heroin and crack cocaine.
(MORE…..)
=============

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News

canopfor on January 17, 2016 at 9:47 PM

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 9:11 AM

Isnt Sanders still saying Hillary’s email troubles are a nothingburger? And that we should focus on the real issues?

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 9:13 AM

Democrats have gone so far to the extreme left that they are running open Marxists for US president! In my lifetime, Commie thugs with Sanders ideology vowed to bury us and the US Govt trained us to kill them and sent us overseas to do just that. While Reagan and GHWB were waging a brilliant war to defeat the evil Soviet Union, Sanders took his bride there on their honeymoon! If you thought Howard Dean was crazy – and he is – then Bernie Sanders belongs in a padded cell….along with much of the rest of the Democrat Party! Instead of promising a chicken in every pot….Sanders promise is a fruitcake in every closet! And Hillary Clinton is so corrupt she makes John Edwards look ethical!

devan95 on January 18, 2016 at 9:14 AM

NK was monitoring the DemDeBate:
———————————-

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 11h11 hours ago

Insulting and boorish Hillary Clinton compared to a haggard crone of unusually spiteful disposition.
===================

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 11h11 hours ago

US deputy president Hillary Clinton bares fangs and slobbers in rage after being compared to a doxy in thrall to Wall Street banks.
==============

DPRK News Service [email protected]_News 11h11 hours ago

Hillary Clinton, stung by criticism that she is a common harlot serving capitalist bands, calls Bernard Sanders a strange man.

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News

canopfor on January 18, 2016 at 9:15 AM

Midnite. Not necessarily. Power is defined as “a capacity or an ability”. But its not a core belief. I was however, speaking in a moral sense with my original comment. :-)

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 9:18 AM

Off topic. Cruz is saying now that trump could be a democrat. Cruz is starting to sound and act more and more like establishment gop every day…..

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM

Er, Donald Trump recently (four months ago) advocated single-payer healthcare; i.e., a socialized medical system similar to or identical with the British NHS, a position which puts him in complete agreement with Bernie Sanders and the far-Left of the Democratic Party, so yes, Donald Trump could be a Democrat.

There is no conceivable way anyone could argue Donald Trump is a conservative. Trump also claimed that he voted for Obama in the last presidential election, and Hillary Clinton in the New York senatorial election before that. What conservative in what alternate universe would do that?

I won’t blast anyone for supporting Trump. In his way, Trump is no better or worse than McCain or Romney (and as equally certain to lose). Trump is a recent Republican who hasn’t yet found his feet as to what a Republican–or what a conservative Republican–believes. Anyone who points this out, like Cruz, is stating the obvious. That does not make him a shill for the GOPe.

troyriser_gopftw on January 18, 2016 at 9:19 AM

Ask any of the hundreds of thousands of family members of veterans who died waiting for care at the VA so that the bureaucrats in charge could cover their butts whether government run healthcare works. Or if you prefer, ask any Native American what they think of the IHS.

Those thousands of people who were left to die so government functionaries could avoid accountability? That’s what Sanders, Clinton and American leftists think US healthcare should be.

Don’t think so? Then tell me again about the punishment given to the DoI/MMS inspectors who allowed BP to do their own inspections on Deepwater Horizon, thereby enabling the worst environmental disaster in US history and directly causing the deaths of 11 people. Tell me again about the punishment given to the EPA when they trashed the Animas River. Tell me again about the punishment given to the people at the IRS who went after Obama’s opponents. Tell me again about the punishment for the Secretary of State who openly flouted federal records laws.

No choice for the little guys, no accountability for the movers and shakers. That’s what they want.

As for “gun control”…

Bump.

Still waiting on an answer to these questions. If CD won’t answer, maybe some other of our resident leftists would like to take a shot:

What evidence suggests to you that leftists can be trusted to deal with their opponents honestly?

What evidence suggests to you that leftists’ gun control proposals are “based in reality”?

What evidence suggests to you that the NRA’s position is not based in reality?

GrumpyOldFart on January 18, 2016 at 9:19 AM

He’s nowhere near the kitchen sink until he starts hitting her on the FBI investigating her, her lack of trustworthiness and her running cover for her sexual predator husband. Until then, he’s not really trying

rcpjr on January 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM

This is where Trump could intervene in the Dem primary. He has the megaphone, and the media follow him everywhere. He should drop the attacks on Cruz and start pointing out that the Dem frontrunner could be under FBI investigation and could and should be indicted for crimes that endangered our national security.

BuckeyeSam on January 18, 2016 at 9:24 AM

troy. Do you deny that bush, rubio, paul, fiorina, christie, etc. Arent also saying the same thing about trump? That was my only point. And thanks for not wanting to bash trump supporters while doing so at the same time.

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 9:33 AM

I am reminded of a somewhat famous Joseph Stalin quote:

Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.

It has long been predicted that we will turn Socialist/Marxist/Communist ultimately due to forces from within rather than by conquest from without.

The progs, whether willingly or not, seem to be propelling us toward that end. The factors I mentioned above, combined with the fact that we are close if not beyond an entitlement tipping point (that ensures people perpetually vote themselves “free shit” even as paying for said “free shit” is tanking the economy), seem to give credence to that dire prediction.

I am not surprised that Sanders is doing so well, but I am unnerved by the fact that it is happening. God save us from ourselves.

hillbillyjim on January 18, 2016 at 9:33 AM

Er, Donald Trump recently (four months ago) advocated single-payer healthcare; i.e., a socialized medical system similar to or identical with the British NHS, a position which puts him in complete agreement with Bernie Sanders and the far-Left of the Democratic Party, so yes, Donald Trump could be a Democrat.

troyriser_gopftw on January 18, 2016 at 9:19 AM

Here’s what Politifact says about it (emphasis mine)…

Our ruling

Perry said Trump is “for single-payer health care.”

Fifteen years ago, Trump was decidedly for a universal healthcare system that resembled Canada’s system, in which the government pays for care for all citizens. Recently, he’s said he admires Scotland’s single-payer system and disses the Affordable Care Act as incompetently implemented.

However, a Trump spokesman denied that the candidate supported “socialized medicine” and suggested Trump prefers a “free-market” solution. Other than that, though, the Trump campaign has been silent about what his specific health care policies are; perhaps Trump will be pressed on this point during the Aug. 6 debate.

Given the current evidence, Perry’s attack is partially accurate, but leaves out details. We rate the statement Half True.

Magicjava on January 18, 2016 at 9:37 AM

There is no conceivable way anyone could argue Donald Trump is a conservative.

troyriser_gopftw on January 18, 2016 at 9:19 AM

Perhaps you should define what the word “conservative” means to you.

Magicjava on January 18, 2016 at 9:39 AM

But jazz, an ancient socialist is the front runner….and her name is clinton.

In my own defense, one of them is still slightly more ancient than the other

Jazz Shaw on January 18, 2016 at 8:39 AM

Jazz, you’d have to be Perry Mason to argue the difference. :)

itsspideyman on January 18, 2016 at 9:55 AM

Nice Seig Heil there, Bernie.

itsspideyman on January 18, 2016 at 9:57 AM

troy. Do you deny that bush, rubio, paul, fiorina, christie, etc. Arent also saying the same thing about trump? That was my only point. And thanks for not wanting to bash trump supporters while doing so at the same time.

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 9:33 AM

They’re saying Trump could be a Democrat because, frankly, Trump could be a Democrat. Occasionally one of his views–such as his opposition to amnesty immigration and open borders–intersect with the views of conservatives, but that Krazy Straw Venn diagram of Trump’s beliefs–as with socialized medicine–also happen to coincide with the far-Left of the Democratic Party.

I notice you don’t disagree with my pointing out Trump’s views on socialized medicine or his own self-proclaimed liberal voting patterns. Mainly because you can’t since his statements are a matter of public record. So no, if you support the guy you cannot claim conservatism as your mantle–to swipe that ‘mantle’ remark from Trump.

Again: I’m not bashing Trump supporters. Trump is a protest vote and I get the reasons behind the protest. I’m bashing Trump. If you get upset that I’m saying mean things about your guy, then maybe you should step back a little and maybe you’ll see what I’m seeing: a shallow meglomaniac with bad hair and bad ideas.

You want a protest vote? Vote for Cruz or even Fiorina, although I doubt she has the name recognition, money or organization to pull it off in either the primaries or the general.

troyriser_gopftw on January 18, 2016 at 10:04 AM

a handful of bad cops

too pathetic to LOL

corona79 on January 18, 2016 at 10:08 AM

troyriser. Lol. When did i say i was a trump supporter?? Methinks you just like hearing yourself type…..

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 10:12 AM

troyriser. Lol. When did i say i was a trump supporter?? Methinks you just like hearing yourself type…..

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 10:12 AM

I notice you still won’t engage on points. You claimed Cruz is a GOPe shill for claiming Trump could be a Democrat. I responded by writing that anyone can make that claim about Trump since Trump’s stated position on socialized medicine is the same position held by the far-Left of the Democratic Party.

And then there is Trump’s voting pattern: by his own admission, Trump voted for both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. For one thing, someone who votes Democrat is typically considered a Democrat by definition. For another, no conservative anywhere could vote for either Obama or Clinton and still be a conservative.

Whether or not you’re a Trump supporter is irrelevant to your argument. Your claim about Cruz is invalid since the statement, ‘Trump could be a Democrat’ is true.

troyriser_gopftw on January 18, 2016 at 10:30 AM

itsspideyman on January 18, 2016 at 9:55 AM

Been awhile since I’ve heard a Perry Mason reference :-)

MJBrutus on January 18, 2016 at 10:49 AM

In our current political climate, labels don’t mean what you think they do…the term Republican has been usurped in the same way as the term Conservative. Politicians like Bush(s) and Romney(s) are undoubtedly much more liberal than conservative by any measure, therefore closer to Democrat than Republican, in today’s world.

Politicians’ words are defined by their deeds, as action always speaks louder than words.

Donald Trump is first and foremost a businessman, and a wildly successful
one, at that. By his own admission, he gave freely to all politicians, making deals and delivering on promises — all a part of the Art of the Deal.

It matters not what the Donald said as a businessman, frankly — what matters most is what he’s saying now, as a businessman/politician.

Donald Trump says what he thinks, that much is obvious to any objective observer — and more and more people across this country are liking what they hear!

So here we are: there stands Donald J Trump…Trump Towers over everyone else.

Palerider1861 on January 18, 2016 at 11:12 AM

She was mouthing the words of BLM leaders and indicting the entire criminal justice system.

Hillary was probably trying to curry favor with Loretta Lynch, who promises that the issue is baked into the cake beyond the Obysmal administration and who hold the possibility of a federal prosecution of Hillary in her hands.

onlineanalyst on January 18, 2016 at 11:13 AM

Donald Trump is first and foremost a businessman, and a wildly successful
one, at that. By his own admission, he gave freely to all politicians, making deals and delivering on promises — all a part of the Art of the Deal.

It matters not what the Donald said as a businessman, frankly — what matters most is what he’s saying now, as a businessman/politician.

Palerider1861 on January 18, 2016 at 11:12 AM

And yet as recently as the past KY election for the Senate, Trump donated $50,000 to McConnell to defeat Matt Bevin. That may indicate what kind of Senate he prefers.

onlineanalyst on January 18, 2016 at 11:27 AM

Heh!

bernzright777 on January 18, 2016 at 8:18 AM

:)

justltl. Your photos lately have been exemplary. :-D

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:37 AM

Thank you!

justltl on January 18, 2016 at 1:42 PM

we’re not so far gone that we’re ever going to elect a socialist.

We did, twice so far.

Who is John Galt on January 18, 2016 at 1:54 PM

onlineanalyst on January 18, 2016 at 11:27 AM

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Palerider1861 on January 18, 2016 at 2:21 PM

troyriser. Trump also voted for mccain. How about answering this question= are the other candidates calling trump a democrat like cruz is??? Up until now cruz has resisted that tactic until his numbers started rising. So its ok for him to do that and not trump?? That was my only point until you decided a pissing contest would be more fun……

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 2:41 PM

He is a Communist, not a Socialist.

The Notorious G.O.P on January 18, 2016 at 3:08 PM

Off topic. Cruz is saying now that trump could be a democrat. Cruz is starting to sound and act more and more like establishment gop every day…..

Indiana Jim on January 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM

Or you could just check Trump’s contributions according to the FEC.

If the name were blacked out you’d swear it was Mario Cuomo’s listing.

BKennedy on January 18, 2016 at 8:33 PM

Personally I prefer Sanders as President to Hilary anyways.

At least Sanders is honest.

Clinton is a traitor who took money from foreign business interests while serving as Secretary of State, and repaid it by influencing State decisions.

Sackett on January 18, 2016 at 8:49 PM