Why campaigning for Hillary (or Bernie) over Trump is a bad idea for conservatives

posted at 12:01 pm on January 13, 2016 by Taylor Millard

There’s now a very small push among some conservatives who aren’t Donald Trump fans to suggest voting for Hillary Clinton is a better strategy. Ben Howe at RedState is one of the first to suggest he’ll be a Clinton supporter if it comes to it because he wants to make sure the Democrats take the reputation hit (emphasis mine).

Let’s be clear: I think Hillary Clinton would be equally detrimental.  This isn’t a question of choosing the lesser of two evils.  Hillary and Trump are equally evil and untrustworthy in my estimation.

So in a situation where two devils are my only option, where I’m certain the outcome of 4 years will be bad for the country, where I’m positive the party responsible for nominating them will be held accountable and suffer the wrath of voters for years to come… I choose to let the other party take the hit.

I will not participate in destroying my own party’s brand by helping to elect a dangerous and untrustworthy person to office and declaring him a representative of my ideological beliefs.

Instead, I will, should Trump win the nomination, work to make sure that the other dangerous and untrustworthy person, who has declared themselves to a representative of progressivism, takes the job.

Howe thinks Trump is a stereotype of what the media portrays Republicans as: cronyist and xenophobic. It’s why he writes he can’t vote for him. But deciding to vote for Clinton (or Bernie Sanders if he wins the Democrat nomination) in hopes it’ll come back to bite the Democrats in 2020 is a bad idea. It might even give Clinton (and her media allies) more ammunition if it turns out to be a repeat of 2008, when Barack Obama trounced John McCain. So voting for one “evil and untrustworthy” candidate over another is a bad strategy to take. South Park complained about this in 2004 and they’re right because the two major party candidate choices haven’t been great at all for more than a few election cycles. This doesn’t mean people who are anti-Trump should sit there and vote for him because they don’t want Clinton in the White House. Howe gives a pretty good indictment of those who just vote for candidates because there’s an R next to their name.

For years we accused the Establishment of pushing Democrats with an R next to their name onto us.  We declared in those instances that they must also be conservative, not just a Republican…If you vote for [ Trump ] just because that R is next to his name or just because you believe (with no evidence) that he will keep his work on his immigration policy prescriptions, then you are the definition of a RINO.

The problem is Howe isn’t considering two alternatives: writing in someone he prefers or just not voting at all. Reason Magazine has actually been a leading proponent in skipping votes if the candidates just aren’t that good. Katherine Mangu-Ward opines the “Vote or Die” push is just ridiculous and the idea every vote counts is a lie because of math.

Let’s start with the basics: Your vote will almost certainly not determine the outcome of any public election. I’m not talking about conspiracy theories regarding rigged elections or malfunctioning voting machines—although both of those things have happened and will happen again. I’m not talking about swing states or Supreme Court power grabs or the weirdness of the Electoral College. I’m talking about pure, raw math.

In all of American history, a single vote has never determined the outcome of a presidential election. And there are precious few examples of any other elections decided by a single vote. A 2001 National Bureau of Economic Research paper by economists Casey Mulligan and Charles Hunter looked at 56,613 contested congressional and state legislative races dating back to 1898. Of the 40,000 state legislative elections they examined, encompassing about 1 billion votes cast, only seven were decided by a single vote (two were tied). A 1910 Buffalo contest was the lone single-vote victory in a century’s worth of congressional races. In four of the 10 ultra-close campaigns flagged in the paper, further research by the authors turned up evidence that subsequent recounts unearthed margins larger than the official record initially suggested. 

Mangu-Ward also suggests the notion of “if you don’t vote, you can’t complain” is complete b.s.

Whether there is a duty to be civically engaged, to act as a good citizen, is a separate question from the issue of voting. But if such a duty exists, there are many ways to perform it, including (perhaps especially) complaining. According to [ Harvard economist Gregory ] Mankiw’s argument, the ignorant voter is a far less admirable citizen than the serial-letter-writing Tea Partier who can’t be bothered to show up on Election Day.

The right to complain is, mercifully, unrelated to any hypothetical duty to vote. It was ensured, instead, by the Founders, all of whom were extraordinary bellyachers themselves. 

This doesn’t mean people who don’t want to vote for either Clinton or Trump should completely skip the November election. There are plenty of lower ballot races which are important, especially if voters want to make sure gridlock in DC stays in place. The Washington Post named ten seats they expected to switch parties in June and eight were controlled by Republicans. This means a complete flip from the Republicans to the Democrats (or an almost 50-50 split) if people decide not to show up. The rise of executive fiat may make it seem like Congress doesn’t matter, but there are plenty of good candidates out there who believe in freedom and liberty. Deciding to not vote in those races is probably a bad idea, especially for those in smaller districts, because it removes another small government type from DC. There are also state and local office elections which are just as important because all politics start local. Howe’s complaint about not wanting to vote for Trump makes sense, but he’s falling into the trap of “you have to pick Candidate A or Candidate B.” There are plenty of other options out there people should be willing to consider before heading to the polls.


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Comments

This is the stupid party, people who think that keeping aliens and potential terrorists out is a bad thing.

HugoDrax on January 13, 2016 at 12:05 PM

DudState motto:

“We would rather lose with conviction than win with the guy we embarrassed ourselves over.”

NeoKong on January 13, 2016 at 12:06 PM

where I’m positive the party responsible for nominating them will be held accountable and suffer the wrath of voters for years to come… I choose to let the other party take the hit.

Is he really that stupid? Can he look anyone in the eye and honestly say that he thinks the dem or liberals will ever be held to account for what they do.

Her is the truth. If HC tanks this country to the point it is nothing more than a sad banana republic it will be 100% the fault of the repubs. That is not speculation it is fact.

Dr. Frank Enstine on January 13, 2016 at 12:08 PM

Not using a capital “c” in conservative encapsulates the GOPe to a T…

mjbrooks3 on January 13, 2016 at 12:09 PM

That’s a horrible idea, from a person who thinks Trump is all but worthless…but is a bit better, only because he says he is a Republican, than Hillary.

He basically is a democrat, higher taxes, expanding ObamaCare, Planned Parenthood, expansion of the federal government, tariffs, ethanol, the list is an endless list of liberal policies.

But voting for Hillary, sets back the Republican party…I can’t see where Trump will be able to lead the party, but others will hopefully take over and lead…conservatives.

The problem is, conservatives are a dying breed, we are the minority, and Trump has created an even larger divide, since so many of his supporters are closet liberals.

Maybe the one “good” or important thing Trump has done, shown that the mantra that a true conservative would win the nomination, if they stuck to real conservative values…that has been shown to be false.

His huge lead shows, that most want liberal policies…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Scalia, age: 79
Kennedy, age: 79
Ginsburg, age: 82
Breyer, age: 77

Jeffreyvdb on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

So I guess we know the outcome of the next election. The dems win no matter who the repubs nominate. Apparently most repubs will be staying home or not voting for POTUS because they just don’t like the nominee or the party is urging them to stay home because the party doesn’t like the nominee.

Dr. Frank Enstine on January 13, 2016 at 12:14 PM

Well, I won’t vote for Trump, but I will vote for somebody conservative. I could write in Cruz or even vote for myself.

trigon on January 13, 2016 at 12:16 PM

Tomorrow: Why campaigning for Hillary/Sanders is good for conservatives.

RickB on January 13, 2016 at 12:16 PM

And thus does Hot Air begin rearranging the deck chairs on the GOPe Titanic.

In 1980 the pro-war Democratic socialists invaded the the GOP via Ronald Reagan. Now you’re getting voted out. My advice is to take a sober look at your behavior to understand why you’re being thrown out and adjust as necessary.

The other alternatives are:

☞ Go back to the democratic party (where, really, you belong)
☞ Hope this is just a one election cycle phenomena (which, given the events since 2010, it almost certainly isn’t)
☞ Resurrect the whig party (assuming modern democrats won’t welcome back pro-war socialists).

Magicjava on January 13, 2016 at 12:16 PM

If you hate both major party candidates, it’s totally ok to not vote or to support a third party candidate.

To vote for and support a kleptomaniac like HRC, however, is outrageous. If that’s your plan, I call you bad names and will piss on you if I get a chance.

Deafdog on January 13, 2016 at 12:16 PM

That someone would suggest choosing Hillary over Trump is reason enough to skip the article.

DarthBrooks on January 13, 2016 at 12:17 PM

If you vote for [ Trump ] just because that R is next to his name or just because you believe (with no evidence) that he will keep his work on his immigration policy prescriptions, then you are the definition of a RINO.

That makes no sense. While we have no way of knowing whether he would keep his promise on deportations, Trump supporters surely hope he will. And that’s true of whatever candidate one supports. That doesn’t make one a RINO. Sure, voting for someone just because of the R does, but Ben’s other argument is total folly.

Bitter Clinger on January 13, 2016 at 12:17 PM

Scalia, age: 79
Kennedy, age: 79
Ginsburg, age: 82
Breyer, age: 77

Jeffreyvdb on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Nice point.
At least there is a hope that Trump would appoint right leaning people. We know for fact that if HC gets to pick we will have a leftest lock on the SCOTUS and you can kiss your gun rights goodbye.

Dr. Frank Enstine on January 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM

Reason Magazine has actually been a leading proponent in skipping votes if the candidates just aren’t that good.

Go third party. It lets candidates know that there is a vote out there for them to capture.

rbj on January 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM

So I guess we know the outcome of the next election. The dems win no matter who the repubs nominate. Apparently most repubs will be staying home or not voting for POTUS because they just don’t like the nominee or the party is urging them to stay home because the party doesn’t like the nominee.

Dr. Frank Enstine on January 13, 2016 at 12:14 PM

Which is such hypocrisy on the part of the Establishment. I held my nose and voted for McCain in ’08 and Romney in ’12.

Bitter Clinger on January 13, 2016 at 12:19 PM

This is stupid. You’d have to be a total wanker to campaign for someone you hate because you didn’t get your way. Vindictive and bankrupt.

Immolate on January 13, 2016 at 12:19 PM

I will not participate in destroying my own party’s brand by helping to elect a dangerous and untrustworthy person to office and declaring him a representative of my ideological beliefs.

It’s quite ironic when someone says the above quote, without realizing that by their contempt, arrogance, and condescension towards the base which supports that candidate, they are actually the one lighting the fuse that will destroy ‘my own party’s brand’.

And it’s even more ironic when they seek to proudly defend ‘my own party’s brand’ and their own ‘ideological beliefs’ as they shill for the GOP establishment. The same GOPe which have callously and cravenly demonstrated since the Nov 2014 midterms, which gave the GOP it’s largest Congressional majorities since the 1920’s, little but to collaborate, enable, and partner with the progressive’s to advance their shared agenda and shower the people with contempt.

I’m convinced that the GOPe, it’s sycophants, shills, and apparatchiks are never going to get it. Their avarice, perfidy, and hubris will not permit it.

Athos on January 13, 2016 at 12:21 PM

Rush is talking right now about the fact that the Republican Establishment considers Trump not to be a “club member.”

Drained Brain on January 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM

You don’t vote Hillary over Trump because of policy, they are similar…

Hillary, unlike Trump, is a criminal…and no matter what, you don’t vote a person of such low moral and ethical character no matter the policy.

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM

Trump 2012: “Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman – I am biased because I have known her for years. I live in New York. She lives in New York. I really like her and her husband both a lot. I think she really works hard. And I think, again, she’s given an agenda, it is not all of her, but I think she really works hard and I think she does a good job. I like her.”

Trump 2009: “(what obama) has done is amazing.”

“The fact that he accomplished what he has—in one year and against great odds—is truly phenomenal.”

Trump 2009: “Well, I think he’s (obama) sort of a guy that just has a wonderful personality, a good speaker, somebody that people trust. And I also think that the comparison with his predecessor is so different — it’s so huge that it really has made a great impact on people.”

“I think he’s doing a really good job… He’s totally a champion.”

Pork-Chop on January 13, 2016 at 12:23 PM

Which is such hypocrisy on the part of the Establishment. I held my nose and voted for McCain in ’08 and Romney in ’12.

Bitter Clinger on January 13, 2016 at 12:19 PM

Me too- I sucked it up (wanting to hurl) and voted for them as well. What I felt I had to do to stop Obama.
But now I’m done. However, I will never vote for a leftist.

bazil9 on January 13, 2016 at 12:23 PM

I think the country is over the cliff already. Our problems are probably beyond what we can elect or legislate (de-legislate?) our way out of. Cruz is probably the only chance we have of saving the country- and it is a slim one at that. Any other president will be managing the crash. The person who is elected president will determine how fast that crash is. That is why I would vote for HRC or Bern over any republican, except, maybe Cruz. The Dem will bring the crash faster, so we can get to rebuilding sooner.

tdarrington on January 13, 2016 at 12:24 PM

They may stay home, but no conservative will pull the lever for Schillary or the Marxist.

This is pure concern trolling by HA’s biggest troll.

Megyn Kellys Lipstick on January 13, 2016 at 12:26 PM

Pork-Chop on January 13, 2016 at 12:23 PM

So what?

GWB said nice things about Pelosi,

Reagan said nice things about O’Neil (and others)

GHWB said nice things about WJC.

WJC said nice things about Gingrich

Deafdog on January 13, 2016 at 12:27 PM

Bass ackward thinking, but it’s the right of the TDS’ers to do whatever they want. I will do what I want, support Trump. I do not trust CRUZ as this moron Ben Howe seems to, or maybe it’s rubio he slobbers over, whatever, don’t care.

I happen to think that Trump will be GOOD for the country and he’ll get things done. Another establishment piece of trash will not. A GOPe president will at best be a place holder while things burn slowly down around our ears. Hillary will burn it down faster, sanders will blow torch the country like it was made of gasoline. Cruz will do nothing but wilt before the GOPe congress after some initial bluster.

This is not a choice of the lesser of two evils on the republican side. We have one guy that can and will actually get things done, and has gotten things done in the past. I worked for a guy like that at an auto company and learned a lot. I know how to get shit done too, and I can see a pansy who is full of nothing but useless words from a mile away. The GOPe pack is just that; useless. We need a LEADER, not a bag of words that turns into a progressive PIG after 100 days. The fact that Trump is sending these RINO progressive pigs into epileptic fits is just proof to me that Trump is exactly who we need in the oval office, at LEAST for 4 years just to give Washington the enema it needs to get rid of the progressives that are destroying this country from both sides of the isle. 8 years if the man actually does what he says.

No more progressive RINO GOPe scum. EVER.

Andy__B on January 13, 2016 at 12:28 PM

Ben Howe: ” . . .I’m positive the party responsible for nominating them will be held accountable and suffer the wrath of voters for years to come. . .”

If that were true the Democrat Party this year and for years following Barack Hussein Obama’s disastrous Regime should not bother showing up at all.

SpiderMike on January 13, 2016 at 12:36 PM

Howe gives a pretty good indictment of those who just vote for candidates because there’s an R next to their name.

For years we accused the Establishment of pushing Democrats with an R next to their name onto us.

Oh the spin! So dizzying I am positively nauseous. We must vote for the establishment candidate because Trump is the untrustworthy one!

Howe thinks…

No, this is what Howe wants you to think he genuinely thinks.

Fenris on January 13, 2016 at 12:39 PM

I will vote for Trump if he’s the nominee, and I’m trying to like him…

But, please, get him to stop talking nonstop about how popular he is in every damn speech. It sounds like he’s running for prom king.

The “I’m so smart, I’m so rich, I’m so popular” spiel was funny and original for the first few months, but I’d like to see him acting a little more presidential.

Megyn Kellys Lipstick on January 13, 2016 at 12:40 PM

I will not participate in destroying my own party’s brand by helping to elect a dangerous and untrustworthy person to office and declaring him a representative of my ideological beliefs.

And this is what Republicans think is important. Not that Trump will damage the country. but that he’s bad for the author’s self image and that of the Party.

And it is one of the reasons I choose that “dangerous and untrustworthy” Trump fella.

I’m intrigued with the untrustworthy label, coming from Reopublicans. Everything that I’ve read indicate he is honest and reliable in his works and honors his word in his business dealing. He’s got decent kids and his ex doesn’t hate him.

None of those things indicate someone who lies and goes back on his promises, which is completely different from the current crop of R’s in the Congress, who have broken every campaign promise, gone back on every assurance and then urinated on us by tossing us vapor paper like the latest Defund PP/Obamacare theater.

Untrustworthy? I’m supposed to be convinced of Trumps’ untrustworthiness? By Republicans?!

Dolce Far Niente on January 13, 2016 at 12:42 PM

That’s a horrible idea, from a person who thinks Trump is all but worthless…but is a bit better, only because he says he is a Republican, than Hillary.

He basically is a democrat, higher taxes, expanding ObamaCare, Planned Parenthood, expansion of the federal government, tariffs, ethanol, the list is an endless list of liberal policies.

But voting for Hillary, sets back the Republican party…I can’t see where Trump will be able to lead the party, but others will hopefully take over and lead…conservatives.

His huge lead shows, that most want liberal policies…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Your argument is based on the straw man propagated by the GOPe that Trump is a liberal. You may really believe what you write and if so, go to Trump’s web page and cite quotes from his positions that prove him to be a liberal. Oh, and that last sentence is utterly ludicrous.

I have not decided yet whom to vote for, but I will have decided who not to vote for: No candidate from the bipartisan political establishment running the most corrupt, anti-American government in our history will get my vote. Period.

If Bush or Rubio get the nom, I will not vote for Hillary or Sanders, I will write in a candidate I think is best.

I am 100% convinced that there is one big truth in this election:

Voting for a candidate from either side of the bipartisan political establishment is a vote for accelerating the decline of America and radically increased dilution of conservative/moderate voters political power through immigration-drive manufactured votes.

DrDeano on January 13, 2016 at 12:46 PM

Good Night and God Help America

Schadenfreude on January 13, 2016 at 12:47 PM

I can’t support Trump or Clinton (or Bernie), and it has nothing to do with his views on immigration or terrorism.

On every other domestic policy, he’s a big government liberal and will govern like it.

looks like another protest vote for me this year.

moflicky on January 13, 2016 at 12:50 PM

Howe’s complaint about not wanting to vote for Trump makes sense, but he’s falling into the trap of “you have to pick Candidate A or Candidate B.” There are plenty of other options out there people should be willing to consider before heading to the polls.

Exactly. If Trump somehow wins the GOP nomination, I’m voting Libertarian. I expect at least several million others will see this as their best option.

If the Republican Party is going to be STUPID enough to either continue with their failed neoconservatism, or transition into complete fascism by letting Trump win, then the Republican Party needs to die. The Party will wither away as its small-government voters flee to the Libertarian Party.

The United States will be much better off with a bipartisan system consisting of the Democrats vs the Libertarians, rather than the Democrats vs the Republicans.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 12:51 PM

Scalia, age: 79
Kennedy, age: 79
Ginsburg, age: 82
Breyer, age: 77

Jeffreyvdb on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Dude, Trump might actually nominate Hillary to the Supreme Court. It’ll be a tough choice between her and whoever is currently Grand Wizard of the KKK.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 12:53 PM

Scalia, age: 79
Kennedy, age: 79
Ginsburg, age: 82
Breyer, age: 77

Jeffreyvdb on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

WHO WOULD DONALD TRUMP APPOINT TO THE SUPREME COURT?

http://spectator.org/articles/65018/who-would-donald-trump-appoint-supreme-court

Pork-Chop on January 13, 2016 at 12:56 PM

Louisiana had this problem back in 1991. We had to vote for the racist White supremacist David Duke or the admitted “crook” Edwin Edwards. Many argued that David Duke would be on a short leash and scrutinized in every deed, so he would make a better governor than the crook. I agreed with that sentiment.

Alas, we elected Edwin Edwards and he acted true to form, enriching himself with kickbacks on casino contracts. Now, he also ended up in prison as a result, but the damage was done. That election decision was much more difficult since Duke participated in such unconscionable behavior as white supremacy.

Trump vs. Clinton does not have baggage with those connotations on the Republican side, but is fraught with the same danger on the Democrat side. A Clinton presidency would be disastrous, not to mention a permanent scar on the psyche of any Republican who votes for her in the name of saving us from Trump.

greasyspoon on January 13, 2016 at 12:56 PM

I will not participate in destroying my own party’s brand by helping to elect a dangerous and untrustworthy person to office and declaring him a representative of my ideological beliefs.

Here’s the main problem with this argument:

1) what “brand” do you think the GOP has?

2) What ideological beliefs do you think the GOP has?

If you claim conservative to either of those questions, you are a dishonest, hack, liar. If you claim “right-of-center” to either question – you are still a dishonest, hack liar.

These alleged “conservatives” who equate the GOP with conservatism are not conservatives, don’t understand conservatism, and are instead republicans who believe, like most of the GOP, that the issue isn’t less gov’t, but who controls gov’t.

Such idiocy.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 12:57 PM

Dude, Trump might actually nominate Hillary to the Supreme Court. It’ll be a tough choice between her and whoever is currently Grand Wizard of the KKK.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 12:53 PM

It’s funny to see your idiocy on the rise. Please – keep saying anyone who disagrees with you is a racist. It’s quite the persuasive argument.

Of course, that is the argument all leftists, like yourself, make.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 12:58 PM

Dude, Trump might actually nominate Hillary to the Supreme Court. It’ll be a tough choice between her and whoever is currently Grand Wizard of the KKK.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 12:53 PM

the funniest thing about this, is that it is coming from a frothing supporter of Ron Paul, who is an anti-Semite, racist, conspiracy monger.

too funny. Pot, meet kettle.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 12:59 PM

Goes both ways…if the nominee is Sweat Boy, Act of Love, Fat Boy or any of the rest of the GOPe line-up I’ll be writing in Jeff Sessions.

BeachBum on January 13, 2016 at 12:59 PM

Yes, we all know that democrat has always been your second choice after libertarian.

blink on January 13, 2016 at 12:59 PM

All a libertarian ever is, is a democrat who wants to seem “edgy”. That’s why nobody takes them seriously.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 1:00 PM

That’s a horrible idea, from a person who thinks Trump is all but worthless…but is a bit better, only because he says he is a Republican, than Hillary.

He basically is a democrat, higher taxes, expanding ObamaCare, Planned Parenthood, expansion of the federal government, tariffs, ethanol, the list is an endless list of liberal policies.

But voting for Hillary, sets back the Republican party…I can’t see where Trump will be able to lead the party, but others will hopefully take over and lead…conservatives.

The problem is, conservatives are a dying breed, we are the minority, and Trump has created an even larger divide, since so many of his supporters are closet liberals.

Maybe the one “good” or important thing Trump has done, shown that the mantra that a true conservative would win the nomination, if they stuck to real conservative values…that has been shown to be false.

His huge lead shows, that most want liberal policies…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

You better stop smoking that stuff. It’s turned your brain to mush.

tomshup on January 13, 2016 at 1:02 PM

Exactly. If Trump somehow wins the GOP nomination, I’m voting Libertarian. I expect at least several million others will see this as their best option.

If the Republican Party is going to be STUPID enough to either continue with their failed neoconservatism, or transition into complete fascism by letting Trump win, then the Republican Party needs to die. The Party will wither away as its small-government voters flee to the Libertarian Party.

The United States will be much better off with a bipartisan system consisting of the Democrats vs the Libertarians, rather than the Democrats vs the Republicans.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 12:51 PM

You were never going to vote republican. That’s the biggest lie.

And the “the Libertarian party is going to explode” meme is thrown about by you lefty idiots every election. Indeed, you claimed that was going to happen this election with Rand Paul.

Also, I love the nazi references. It’s always super high intelligence and persuasiveness that throws those around. Good work.

You’re a lefty, have always been a lefty, will always be a lefty.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 1:03 PM

Apparently, TAYLOR MILLARD is too stupid to see the obvious hypocrisy.

Conservatives are attacked when they suggest a refusal to vote for a RINO, yet RINOs are praised for refusing to vote for someone espousing conservative policies.

blink on January 13, 2016 at 12:09 PM

..fixed this for ya.

Hate to sound like the old crumudgeon I really am, but who are these second rate second-stringers that appear on Hot Gas these days? Talk about rinky dink asssholes bleating out worthless drek, this has got to take the cake.

YET ANOTHER example of the crap that poses for political commentary here. Vapid, vacuous, devoid of any interesting concepts or exposition, this guy’s writing is nothing more than repackaged Noah Rothman sensationalistic click bait.

Tell you what, Taylor, go back to the minors, kick around on the short bus for a while and come back when you have some good topics and sound reasoning to offer..

..and don’t give up your day job at the National Inquirer.

(At least he did not make the egregious grammatical and spelling errors Rothman used to make.)

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:03 PM

He could be right about the damage that Trump would do to the Republican brand (though I think that Trump knows more about branding than Ben Howe).

What he certainly gets wrong is that a Clinton presidency would hurt the Democrat brand. The Democrats don’t care if the economy tanks – they will just use that as an opportunity to sow fear and sell their message of economic security through federal mandate and redistribution. And it will probably work.

kcewa on January 13, 2016 at 1:04 PM

“..this guy’s writing is nothing more than repackaged Noah Rothman sensationalistic click bait.”

And yet, here I am, working the thread on this piece of drivel.

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:05 PM

This is what happens when you worry more about what the neighbors think than what is good for your family. So stupid.

Cindy Munford on January 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM

..and don’t give up your day job at the National Inquirer.

(At least he did not make the egregious grammatical and spelling errors Rothman used to make.)

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:03 PM

That’s National “Enquirer”. You spelled it wrong.

kcewa on January 13, 2016 at 1:07 PM

That’s a horrible idea, from a person who thinks Trump is all but worthless…but is a bit better, only because he says he is a Republican, than Hillary.

He basically is a democrat, higher taxes, expanding ObamaCare, Planned Parenthood, expansion of the federal government, tariffs, ethanol, the list is an endless list of liberal policies.

But voting for Hillary, sets back the Republican party…I can’t see where Trump will be able to lead the party, but others will hopefully take over and lead…conservatives.

The problem is, conservatives are a dying breed, we are the minority, and Trump has created an even larger divide, since so many of his supporters are closet liberals.

Maybe the one “good” or important thing Trump has done, shown that the mantra that a true conservative would win the nomination, if they stuck to real conservative values…that has been shown to be false.

His huge lead shows, that most want liberal policies…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Who cares what happens to the Republican Party at this point? They’ve turned to the Dark Side and can’t be saved.

Let’s start fresh with the Libertarian Party.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 1:07 PM

The problem is, conservatives are a dying breed, we are the minority, and Trump has created an even larger divide, since so many of his supporters are closet liberals.

Maybe the one “good” or important thing Trump has done, shown that the mantra that a true conservative would win the nomination, if they stuck to real conservative values…that has been shown to be false.

His huge lead shows, that most want liberal policies…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Wrong as always. Trump leads not because of liberal policies, but because the policies that matter most to people he is the best choice for a conservative outcome.

It is people who blindly support the republican party, despite its constant admissions that it is a lefty party that hates conservatism, that is suspect. Those are the people that have proven themselves to be closet liberals. They want to continue the same policies – starting will open borders and amnesty. they want to continue Obamacare (GOP has expressly stated this many times). They want to continue high spending. they want to continue expanding gov’t.

This election has made the split between people who get that the GOP is a trojan horse designed to keep anything conservative from every happening and those that still live under the delusion that the GOP is conservative.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 1:07 PM

The establishment of the right and the rightwing media keep trying to pencil in Hillarious as the democratic nominee. Jeb or Hillary would be their dream come true. Sorry, not gonna happen.

proverbs427 on January 13, 2016 at 1:09 PM

The problem is, conservatives are a dying breed, we are the minority,

No. If you managed to choke down the SOTU last night you heard Obama say some conservative things. -End gerrymandered congressional districts, ease regulation of industry to boost manufacturing… Not that he believes these things or has any intention of pushing these things, but he knows that is where the average American is and wanted a speech that resonated with them to make is other ideas sound less kooky.

So no, America is still a center right country, propaganda makes us believe otherwise.

tdarrington on January 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM

Brands like “GOP”, “Third Reich” and “Food Lion” are not what they used to be. I’m not sure that protecting those brands is a priority.

Immolate on January 13, 2016 at 1:12 PM

You were never going to vote republican. That’s the biggest lie.

And the “the Libertarian party is going to explode” meme is thrown about by you lefty idiots every election. Indeed, you claimed that was going to happen this election with Rand Paul.

Also, I love the nazi references. It’s always super high intelligence and persuasiveness that throws those around. Good work.

You’re a lefty, have always been a lefty, will always be a lefty.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 1:03 PM

I would have happily voted for Rand Paul. If you can’t tell the difference between a left-wing socialist and a hardcore libertarian capitalist, you might be a fascist.

I don’t use the references to fascism lightly. Fascism is real political philosophy that most of the world thought was a pretty good idea at one time. This philosophy includes a specific set of principles and beliefs that are quite well defined, and are explicitly opposed to the ideas of individual liberty. Trump’s political philosophy is best described as extreme nationalism, coupled with a belief in unifing a core demographic against everyone else, in pursuit of an expansive and controlling government that runs the economy as a single giant corporation, with the president as the CEO. That’s the exact definition of fascism.

Trump is literally a fascist. If you don’t accept it, you’re simply in denial. You’re trying to revive the fascist philosophy without the stigma that was rightfully attached to it.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 1:14 PM

RedState is becoming the new Little Green Footballs.
If you don’t know what Little Green Footballs is, that’s the point.

dengony on January 13, 2016 at 1:15 PM

Traitors

Schadenfreude on January 13, 2016 at 1:18 PM

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 1:14 PM

How many times did you have to stop writing that TDS-addled screed (and mouthing each word as you wrote it) to wipe the spittle off the monitor?

Your investment in a spittleproof keyboard, on the other hand, was the only time you’ve demonstrated anything remotely associated with wisdom.

Athos on January 13, 2016 at 1:23 PM

Wrong as always. Trump leads not because of liberal policies, but because the policies that matter most to people he is the best choice for a conservative outcome.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 1:07 PM

Please, Barry Goldwater himself would rise from the grave and spit in Trump’s face if he could. Ronald Reagan would pack heat in any such confrontation, in case Trump’s goons tried dragging him out into the cold and confiscating his coat for being too libertarian.

Trump is purely a proponent of fascism. If Trump is conservative, then Ronald Reagan wasn’t.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 1:31 PM

So instead of voting for Trump…people would vote for a person that blamed the victims in sexual assault allegations, trashed their names, illegally used a personal server for Government work, hid documentation, may have used their position in power to get money for their “private” Foundation and got an Ambassador KILLED because she refused to listen to the warnings he issued about the security at his location…not to mention, other 90’s issues that involved FBI Files and people dying all around her.

Do I have it right? That would be better than Voting for Donald Trump?

And people wonder where the “anger” from middle America comes from.

Dino V on January 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM

God — I am no fan of Trump, but if he gets the nomination, I’m voting for him over that evil, lying shrew in a heartbeat.

dpduq on January 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM

God — I am no fan of Trump, but if he gets the nomination, I’m voting for him over that evil, lying shrew in a heartbeat.

dpduq on January 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM

A vote for either one is a vote for corrupt statism.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM

Dude, Trump might actually nominate Hillary to the Supreme Court. It’ll be a tough choice between her and whoever is currently Grand Wizard of the KKK.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 12:53 PM

Wow. You really are a liberal. The last bastion of a failed argument is to yell ‘racist!’.

Congrats you have gone full retard.

The Notorious G.O.P on January 13, 2016 at 1:43 PM

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:03 PM

That’s National “Enquirer”. You spelled it wrong.

kcewa on January 13, 2016 at 1:07 PM

..your right! It figures. Always happens when i get on my high horse re grammar and spelling!

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:47 PM

Wow. You really are a liberal. The last bastion of a failed argument is to yell ‘racist!’.

Congrats you have gone full retard.

The Notorious G.O.P on January 13, 2016 at 1:43 PM

The last bastion of a racist who has failed to hide his bigotry is to yell “liberal!”

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 1:47 PM

..your right! = intentional, by the way. I may be an old curmudgeon but at least I am a self-effacing old curmudgeon!

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:48 PM

Scalia, age: 79
Kennedy, age: 79
Ginsburg, age: 82
Breyer, age: 77

Jeffreyvdb on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

don’t forget Thomas is 67 (black male life expectancy is still almost 5 years lower that for whites)

Tlaloc on January 13, 2016 at 1:49 PM

Seriously?

Dude. Take the Red Pill. Wake The F*ck Up.

Trump is necessary, like ripping the bandaid off, to combat the overweening government.

Not perfect by any means, but definitely a step in the right direction vs pretty much everyone else.

Trump/Cruz … yeah…. Cruz as Senate President…I do like that.

ProfShadow on January 13, 2016 at 1:50 PM

Wow. You really are a liberal. The last bastion of a failed argument is to yell ‘racist!’.

Congrats you have gone full retard.

The Notorious G.O.P on January 13, 2016 at 1:43 PM

It’s well known that white supremacist orgs are supporting Trump. Has he disavowed them? If so I missed it.

Tlaloc on January 13, 2016 at 1:51 PM

Note to add: I’ve been voting, holding my nose, for all the GOPe candidates all these years.

The GOPe needs to do the same as I did.

ProfShadow on January 13, 2016 at 1:52 PM

If you vote for [ Trump ] just because that R is next to his name or just because you believe (with no evidence) that he will keep his work on his immigration policy prescriptions, then you are the definition of a RINO.

The problem with all the other candidates except Trump and Cruz is that we do know what they’ll do: Sell out the country by importing another 11 million Democrat voters. They’ve already tried.

SDN on January 13, 2016 at 1:53 PM

But deciding to vote for Clinton (or Bernie Sanders if he wins the Democrat nomination) in hopes it’ll come back to bite the Democrats in 2020 is a bad idea.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t we hear similar logic in 2012? That people will finally acknowledge Liberalism doesn’t work? So much for that…

I mean there is a case for saying the economy is going to crash even harder in the near future as problems become harder and harder to hide and it all catches up. But really, we all know things can get much much worse – and at what point (if we haven’t already) where we can’t fix it.

I really feel like this is it, if we can’t dramatically turn things around after this next election then it’ll take a generation or more at least to bring us back to where we are right now. And who really believes an opposition party could really take advantage of the disaster that is 2020 after amnesty, multiple terror attacks in the country, a collapsed dollar, healthcare even worse, etc?

One reason I support Trump is that I simply don’t believe the majority of Republicans are up to the task, they’ve just shown themselves to be beyond inept. They had their chance to prove themselves, they couldn’t even get a halfway decent budget together – there is no Republican party in my eyes. I like Cruz but I think it’ll take a real a**hole like Trump to staredown the bloated political parties.

Ukiah on January 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM

Seriously?

Dude. Take the Red Pill. Wake The F*ck Up.

Trump is necessary, like ripping the bandaid off, to combat the overweening government.

Not perfect by any means, but definitely a step in the right direction vs pretty much everyone else.

Trump/Cruz … yeah…. Cruz as Senate President…I do like that.

ProfShadow on January 13, 2016 at 1:50 PM

..at least someone gets it! As I said in another thread, he’s the cudgel that will knock the sense into some of the DC insiders. (The rest are beyond hope.)

By the way, have you noted the absolute fear and desperation this engenders in folks? Sorry, but that’s what they get for selling out America for their own selfish interests.

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:56 PM

Note to add: I’ve been voting, holding my nose, for all the GOPe candidates all these years.

The GOPe needs to do the same as I did.

ProfShadow on January 13, 2016 at 1:52 PM

..hermano, separated at birth, great minds in the same track, etc.

The War Planner on January 13, 2016 at 1:58 PM

Any “republican” who campaigns for a democrat president should be primaried out of office at the next possible opportunity.

The footage of said campaigning should be all their opponent needs to win.

Oxymoron on January 13, 2016 at 2:02 PM

Your argument is based on the straw man propagated by the GOPe that Trump is a liberal. You may really believe what you write and if so, go to Trump’s web page and cite quotes from his positions that prove him to be a liberal. Oh, and that last sentence is utterly ludicrous.

DrDeano on January 13, 2016 at 12:46 PM

Okay, you say him being a “liberal” is a straw man…to you, and others, that may be true, depending on what you think a liberal is.

So let me at least define what I think are his liberal ideas.

Expanding Obamacare, he has said it doesn’t go far enough, and up to just a couple of months ago, all in on single payer.

He is for continued federal support of Planned Parenthood.

He is for continued federal subsidy for ethanol.

He has proposed to raise taxes.

Is not supportive of zero based budgeting.

A proponent of private business imminent domain, big KELO supporter.

Supported the bail outs.

Has proposed creating new federal agencies, but not eliminating others.

Believes in the federal government, not giving more to states rights.

Has moved away from “deportation”, and now wants to “expedite and make legal”, no punishment, fines, back taxes, to illegals.

He has been a lifelong democrat and only recently taken up the mantle of a Republican…supporting Pelosi, Reid (of all people), Schumer, Crist, etc.

Has stated his abortion (even to the point of killing the baby out of the womb) loving sister is a perfect model for a Supreme Court Justice.

Is for tariffs, a great union policy…not removing agencies and their policies that have made us inefficient.

But he is for building a wall…I can see as his only real conservative policy.

He could be for a better military, as is everyone, including liberals so they say…but he doesn’t even know what the Triad is, and has no idea what the “tip of the spear” means…so it’s just words, and even Graham has been more consistent, so not a big deal.

So I do have my reasons…lets see your reasons that you think he is a “conservative”…

He has said he would not dismantle any, not one, entitlement program…

He is the most liberal Republican candidate ever seriously considered.

Look who he has been in bed with the past 20 years…the most liberal of the liberals…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 2:06 PM

go to Trump’s web page and cite quotes from his positions that prove him to be a liberal. Oh, and that last sentence is utterly ludicrous.

DrDeano on January 13, 2016 at 12:46 PM

Sure he backed away from deportation, nary a mention…his tax policies raises taxes on the middle class…

All I ask, take the time, let go of your emotions, and actually look at Trump as a candidate…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 2:08 PM

Seriously?

Dude. Take the Red Pill. Wake The F*ck Up.

Trump is necessary, like ripping the bandaid off, to combat the overweening government.

Not perfect by any means, but definitely a step in the right direction vs pretty much everyone else.

Trump/Cruz … yeah…. Cruz as Senate President…I do like that.

ProfShadow on January 13, 2016 at 1:50 PM

You mean this Red Pill?

With front-page posts like “Why Being A Sociopath Is Not End-Game” I can see why Trumpists would like that site.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 2:14 PM

Note to add: I’ve been voting, holding my nose, for all the GOPe candidates all these years.

The GOPe needs to do the same as I did.

ProfShadow on January 13, 2016 at 1:52 PM

No they don’t. That’s the folly of Trump’s game. Nobody needs to hold their nose and vote for him, because he doesn’t offer anyone any reason to. He’s nothing more than a liability.

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 2:15 PM

Has he disavowed them? If so I missed it.

Tlaloc on January 13, 2016 at 1:51 PM

Gasp! You?!? Drawing a conclusion without taking contravening facts?!? Will wonders never cease?

When asked about an endorsement from David Duke, Trump had this to say:

Despite Duke’s high praises, Trump said he had no idea who the former Ku Klux Klan leader was.

“I don’t need his endorsement. I certainly wouldn’t want his endorsement. I don’t need anyone’s endorsement,” Trump told Bloomberg.

Reporter John Heilemann asked if Trump “repudiated” the endorsement.

“Sure,” Trump replied, “if that would make you feel better. I would certainly repudiate. I don’t know anything about him.”

Of course, leave it to TPM to take away from that whole interview, “everyone likes me”, but neither here nor there.

Trump’s take on Duke is that he doesn’t know who Duke is, he doesn’t care who Duke is, and he doesn’t care if Duke endorses him or not. And that’s an attitude I can actually get behind.

I don’t know who white supremacist groups are voting for because I don’t care who white supremacist groups are voting for. Their opinion does not have anywhere near enough value for me to seek them out, and frankly, I think any other approach only legitimizes a group that should have no voice in our society’s future.

The Klan is 99.9% extinct from their zenith prior to the Civil Rights era. Given the choice between digging them up and leaving them buried, I think the choice is obvious.

The Schaef on January 13, 2016 at 2:44 PM

Gasp! You?!? Drawing a conclusion without taking contravening facts?!? Will wonders never cease?

When asked about an endorsement from David Duke, Trump had this to say…

The Schaef on January 13, 2016 at 2:44 PM

So that’s one, what about the pac making robocalls for him?

Tlaloc on January 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM

That’s as stupid as the people who said they would vote for Obama instead of a squishy RINO for the same reason in years past.

I fear what Trumplestiltskin will do to my country but he cannot be worse than Pantsuit Satan and I will vote for the lesser of evils. In the meantime, I will do what I can to see that it is Cruz who I get the opportunity to pull the lever for.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2016 at 3:21 PM

Let us be honest.

The SOTU response is not written by whoever delivers it. It is written by the Party.

For the first time in history, a SOTU response was used to exclusively attack the frontrunner of the party making the response, and to tongue-bathe the incumbent president of the other party.

Combine it with the statements by GOPe officials, donors, and other presidential candidates that they would support Hillary Clinton if Trump wins the nomination fair and square.

Add in the Nikki Haley interviews today where she made perfectly clear that the attacks last night were on Trump, AND Cruz, and their supporters in the Republican Party.

That makes it pretty plain that if Trump or Cruz win the nomination, and manage to avoid any fatal accidents beneficial to the GOPe, that they will be running against not only the Democrats, but also against the Republicans. Both will have to be defeated, decisively. And, to be honest, there is no certainty that an electoral victory would be honored. The rule of law died here long ago.

I also note, as has been said before, that the pledge not to run 3rd party [really SECOND party] was predicated on fair treatment by the Republicans. One could make a serious argument that the SOTU response releases Trump from any such agreement.

Subotai Bahadur on January 13, 2016 at 3:51 PM

So that’s one, what about the pac making robocalls for him?

Tlaloc on January 13, 2016 at 3:13 PM

What about it?

The Schaef on January 13, 2016 at 3:54 PM

I fear what Trumplestiltskin will do to my country but he cannot be worse than Pantsuit Satan and I will vote for the lesser of evils. In the meantime, I will do what I can to see that it is Cruz who I get the opportunity to pull the lever for.

MJBrutus on January 13, 2016 at 3:21 PM

That’s a fatal mistake to make. Perhaps literally. Paul von Hindenburg was an awful president. Does that mean Hitler was the lesser evil?

TBSchemer on January 13, 2016 at 4:06 PM

Scott Adams nailed this back in 1994:

Dilbert: Do you remember last election day… and how you convinced me to not vote?

Dilbert: You argued that since we disagreed on all issues, we could both stay home and the outcome would be the same as if we both voted.

Dilbert: Dogs can’t vote!!!

Dogbert: Well, not directly.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on January 13, 2016 at 7:16 PM

A non-vote for ANY of the GOP candidates is a vote FOR a Democrat who WILL place another liberal/Marxist on the SCOTUS and push us over the cliff.

sixchickensleft on January 13, 2016 at 9:54 PM

I am an Independent and will vote TRUMP. Anyone who says they are a Republican and won’t vote for the chosen candidate is a vote for a sick DNC continuing reign of America’s destruction. Those who said they would not vote for Trump should already switch to the DNC and be done with the fact that they are not patriotic Americans and prefer communism! Or, fools rush in where angels fear to tread is now their song! Our family left the DNC in the 60’s because of the evil they were doing and what they were promising in their published 1963 Communist Manifesto of 44 steps to takeover America. Sure, be that fool and vote for a Democrat but be ready to lose all you have starting with freedom,then money, then goods, and then your life! Amazing to think there are so many stupid people in America!

Roselle on January 14, 2016 at 11:07 AM

Comments to ponder

Apparently, TAYLOR MILLARD is too stupid to see the obvious hypocrisy.

Conservatives are attacked when they suggest a refusal to vote for a RINO, yet RINOs are praised for refusing to vote for someone espousing conservative policies.

blink on January 13, 2016 at 12:09 PM

I will not participate in destroying my own party’s brand by helping to elect a dangerous and untrustworthy person to office and declaring him a representative of my ideological beliefs.

It’s quite ironic when someone says the above quote, without realizing that by their contempt, arrogance, and condescension towards the base which supports that candidate, they are actually the one lighting the fuse that will destroy ‘my own party’s brand’.

And it’s even more ironic when they seek to proudly defend ‘my own party’s brand’ and their own ‘ideological beliefs’ as they shill for the GOP establishment. The same GOPe which have callously and cravenly demonstrated since the Nov 2014 midterms, which gave the GOP it’s largest Congressional majorities since the 1920’s, little but to collaborate, enable, and partner with the progressive’s to advance their shared agenda and shower the people with contempt.

I’m convinced that the GOPe, it’s sycophants, shills, and apparatchiks are never going to get it. Their avarice, perfidy, and hubris will not permit it.

Athos on January 13, 2016 at 12:21 PM

His huge lead shows, that most want liberal policies…

right2bright on January 13, 2016 at 12:11 PM

Wrong as always. Trump leads not because of liberal policies, but because the policies that matter most to people he is the best choice for a conservative outcome.

It is people who blindly support the republican party, despite its constant admissions that it is a lefty party that hates conservatism, that is suspect. Those are the people that have proven themselves to be closet liberals. They want to continue the same policies – starting will open borders and amnesty. they want to continue Obamacare (GOP has expressly stated this many times). They want to continue high spending. they want to continue expanding gov’t.

This election has made the split between people who get that the GOP is a trojan horse designed to keep anything conservative from every happening and those that still live under the delusion that the GOP is conservative.

Monkeytoe on January 13, 2016 at 1:07 PM

Most of the country couldn’t distinguish between a conservative and a liberal policy, and has no clue what the hard Left really wants to impose on the country.

Let us be honest.

The SOTU response is not written by whoever delivers it. It is written by the Party.

For the first time in history, a SOTU response was used to exclusively attack the frontrunner of the party making the response, and to tongue-bathe the incumbent president of the other party.

Combine it with the statements by GOPe officials, donors, and other presidential candidates that they would support Hillary Clinton if Trump wins the nomination fair and square.

Add in the Nikki Haley interviews today where she made perfectly clear that the attacks last night were on Trump, AND Cruz, and their supporters in the Republican Party.

That makes it pretty plain that if Trump or Cruz win the nomination, and manage to avoid any fatal accidents beneficial to the GOPe, that they will be running against not only the Democrats, but also against the Republicans. Both will have to be defeated, decisively. And, to be honest, there is no certainty that an electoral victory would be honored. The rule of law died here long ago.

I also note, as has been said before, that the pledge not to run 3rd party [really SECOND party] was predicated on fair treatment by the Republicans. One could make a serious argument that the SOTU response releases Trump from any such agreement.

Subotai Bahadur on January 13, 2016 at 3:51 PM

It’s more fun if Trump runs as the Republican and the GOPe runs as the third party.

AesopFan on January 15, 2016 at 1:14 AM