YouGov: Head to head, Rubio now trails Trump by eight and Cruz by 18

posted at 7:01 pm on December 28, 2015 by Allahpundit

Yes, yes, Rubio fans, I know — it’s a national poll and national polls don’t really mean anything, especially with big endorsements like Trey Gowdy’s only now just starting to trickle in. Fair enough, but this is the most interesting before-and-after comparison I’ve seen regarding the big immigration brawl between Rubio and Cruz. That began, you may remember, with the spat between them onstage at the debate on December 15th and continued all the way through Christmas, with Cruz being grilled repeatedly by the media about his views on legalizing illegals in 2013. Didn’t he introduce an amendment to Rubio’s Gang of Eight bill that would have expanded work permits for illegals? (Yes.) Doesn’t that mean he supports amnesty too? (It’s complicated.) If so, doesn’t that mean that Rubio’s big liability on immigration isn’t as big as everyone thinks? If Rubio can convince voters that he and Cruz are basically the same on amnesty, even though Rubio co-wrote a terrible immigration bill and Cruz voted against it, then Cruz’s big advantage over him is lost.

Here’s evidence that Rubio’s not convincing anyone, despite the media focus on Cruz. On the contrary:

imm1

Earlier this month, before the debate, he trailed Trump by two points and Cruz by eight. After the debate, it’s eight and 18, respectively. Hmmmm. And that’s not all. When YouGov asked Republican voters how much confidence they have in the top four Republican candidates to deal with immigration wisely, Trump led the way with 67 percent. Cruz was right behind with 62 percent. Rubio? 45 percent, two points less than even Ben Carson. That might simply be an artifact of Rubio’s overall standing in the race: Not only is Cruz ahead of Rubio overall (19 percent to 14, with Trump far ahead at 36 percent), but he leads when voters are asked who’s more honest, more ready to be commander-in-chief, and more capable of dealing with terrorism. Nowhere is the gap between Cruz and Rubio wider than the 17 points that separate them on immigration, though. That’s also the only metric where Rubio is under 50 percent.

I looked at the last few months’ worth of YouGov polls to see if I could find earlier results for the same question, thinking that would be another way to detect whether Rubio’s standing on immigration has taken a hit. I couldn’t find a direct comparison but here’s how the candidates stacked up on immigration earlier this fall:

imm2

That was taken the first week of November. Rubio’s a very distant second to Trump but he’s still a few points ahead of Cruz. Not anymore. We’re left with a chicken-and-egg question: Did Cruz overtake Rubio for various assorted reasons (he’s now second in most national polls) and that’s now begun to bleed over into perceptions of the two on immigration or did Cruz overtake Rubio on immigration first and that’s begun to affect perceptions of the two of them generally? Remember, it was in mid-November when Cruz released his own very tough immigration plan, which opened the door to halting legal immigration over wage concerns, as a way to keep pace with Trump among border hawks. He was at 9.6 percent in RCP’s national poll average the day that happened; he’s at nearly 18 percent now whereas Rubio has barely budged since mid-November. My hunch is that Cruz’s rise has less to do with immigration than with him simply picking up evangelicals from a collapsing Ben Carson, but at the very least it seems like the immigration squabble with Rubio hasn’t hurt him any and might have hurt Rubio, who’s dipped two and a half points in the RCP national average since December 13.

Two exit questions for you. One: Has there been another candidate besides Chris Christie in modern political history who’s arguably destroyed the Republican establishment’s chances of winning not one but two presidential elections? Christie might well have been a stronger candidate than Mitt Romney in 2012 but he passed, leaving the GOP with a losing hand in the general election. This year he’s not as strong a candidate as Marco Rubio — he lacks a national organization, for one thing — but he may have enough mojo in New Hampshire to pass Rubio there, leaving the donor class stuck with either him (if he wins the state outright) or Cruz (if Trump wins New Hampshire and donors are suddenly desperate to block Trump from the nomination). Two: Why is Trump suddenly ripping on Trey Gowdy just because he endorsed Rubio? Wasn’t Gowdy in the mix to be his Attorney General not long ago?


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Comments

Rubiolito is a Benedict Arnold to all he ever met.

Period.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9K4SoYxnxQ

NH, where NO DIABLO can win and the indies play big.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:09 PM

Here’s evidence that Rubio’s not convincing anyone, despite the media focus on Cruz. On the contrary:

Virtually everyone saw that coming; as I and many others said Rubio highlighting immigration simply draws attention to his own pitiful record, it doesn’t accomplish anything else. Rubio has an unbelievably stupid campaign team.

Redstone on December 28, 2015 at 7:10 PM

Woohoo

terryannonline

aka

I have trouble seeing any politician as handsome :-)
terryannonline on June 9, 2015 at 8:17 PM

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:10 PM

Rubio, the punk, forever

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:12 PM

I won’t vote for Marco Amnesty. If he keeps bad mouthing Cruz, I will vote AGAINST him, though.

higgins1991 on December 28, 2015 at 7:13 PM

Not interested in voting for Rubio.

lineholder on December 28, 2015 at 7:13 PM

Schadenfreude, you are intellectually impotent, as are all Trump supporters.

Excellent117 on December 28, 2015 at 7:15 PM

impotent

Excellent117 on December 28, 2015 at 7:15 PM

tmi and you are more stupid than TSchemer.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:16 PM

Thank God that not all millennials are as stupid as you are.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:16 PM

Hope Cruz continues this trend.

Flapjackmaka on December 28, 2015 at 7:16 PM

Trump: Gowdy’s Benghazi hearings a ‘total disaster’

Incontestable truth. Gowdy, a state of the art prosecutor, sold his soul to Boehner and the donors.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:18 PM

Gravis Marketing [email protected] Dec 27 Celebration, FL

Gravis Marketing Iowa Poll. Trump and Cruz tied 31%-31% Rubio 9% Clinton 49% Sanders 31%

https://twitter.com/GravisMarketing/status/681125666851565568

IDontCair on December 28, 2015 at 7:19 PM

One: Has there been another candidate besides Chris Christie in modern political history who’s arguably destroyed the Republican establishment’s chances of winning not one but two presidential elections?


You mean other than John McCain?

Or Mitt Romney?

Or …

Two: Why is Trump suddenly ripping on Trey Gowdy just because he endorsed Rubio? Wasn’t Gowdy in the mix to be his Attorney General not long ago?


You mean other than to discourage elected Republican politicians from endorsing one of his opponents?

Or, excluding the completely incompetent GOPe and their collection of Dullards, that it has been an understood FACT that politics was a “contact sport”?

PolAgnostic on December 28, 2015 at 7:19 PM

Did Cruz overtake Rubio for various assorted reasons (he’s now second in most national polls) and that’s now begun to bleed over into perceptions of the two on immigration or did Cruz overtake Rubio on immigration first and that’s begun to affect perceptions of the two of them generally?

No. Cruz is winding out second and about to shift into third.

Rubio’s bike had a flat.

trigon on December 28, 2015 at 7:20 PM

Rubio: Too many vowels, not enough consonants. We tried it that way with Obama, and look what happened.

HugoDrax on December 28, 2015 at 7:20 PM

Yes, yes, Rubio fans, I know

Who are you talking to?

Stoic Patriot on December 28, 2015 at 7:20 PM

or Cruz (if Trump wins New Hampshire and donors are suddenly desperate to block Trump from the nomination).

How do you like this predicament AP?

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:20 PM

I’ve been a supporter of “not sure” from the beginning. /

I think the GOPe is in a real dither right now. Jeb! was supposed to be their guy. Then Rubio (all Floridians look alike to them). The leaders going into 2016 appears to be Trump or Cruz (because not every anti-establishment conservative is an idiot).

Pretty soon, the GOPe is going have to come to terms with the fact they are destroying the Republican Party. It was a good run while it lasted but the GOPe is more invested in retaining power than standing on principle. As a result the GOPe has endorsed amnesty for illegals, abortion on demand, and making gay “marriage” normal in society.

I’m just surprised the real Republicans have put up with this crap for so long.

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 7:21 PM

It’s simple, Rubio could only win if he went hard right against gang of 8, and he’s only had 2 years to do it.

He failed, and we have the results we have because hardline immigration is what the rank-and-file want.

nobar on December 28, 2015 at 7:23 PM

Virtually everyone saw that coming; as I and many others said Rubio highlighting immigration simply draws attention to his own pitiful record, it doesn’t accomplish anything else. Rubio has an unbelievably stupid campaign team.

Redstone on December 28, 2015 at 7:10 PM


Let’s not slight Jeb!’s campaign team!
They are pizzing away far more than Rubio could hope for in his wildest dreams.

It seriously raises the question,

“Is the Jeb! campaign team SO STUPID, they didn’t realize they weren’t supposed to collapse into a disorganized heap until AFTER he won the nomination?”

PolAgnostic on December 28, 2015 at 7:25 PM

To AP’s Gowdy question

Trey Gowdy’s “Act of Love” Moments with Dreamers & Luis Gutierrez (2013 & 2014)

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:25 PM

Looks like the loser Benghazi shill for thr GOPe clown show is supporting another loser. Gowdy has never been anything more than a whore for the GOPe. He is as useless as Issa.

they lie on December 28, 2015 at 7:25 PM

Not interested in voting for Rubio.

lineholder on December 28, 2015 at 7:13 PM

Hey Mister! If the GOPe backs Rubio you WILL vote for Rubio and you’ll like it. Just like you were told to vote for Dole, GWB (second term), McCain, and Romney.

[snicker] You going to vote for Blue Clinton instead? We don’t think so.

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 7:25 PM

It’s simple, Rubio could only win if he went hard right against gang of 8, and he’s only had 2 years to do it.

He failed, and we have the results we have because hardline immigration is what the rank-and-file want.

nobar on December 28, 2015 at 7:23 PM

For Rubio to get a second look he would have to grovel to the voters in the way that he does to donors, apologize for the gang of 8 and vow to never do anything remotely like that again.

He probably won’t do those things so he will never rise too much.

Redstone on December 28, 2015 at 7:26 PM

Explains Rubio and Gowdy.

Rubio will not even win FL.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:29 PM

Incontestable truth. Gowdy, a state of the art prosecutor, sold his soul to Boehner and the donors.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:18 PM

Agreed. When I hear that moron, I tune out. Sitting by a train gets you the same thing.

wsucoug on December 28, 2015 at 7:29 PM

Schadenfreude, you are intellectually impotent, as are all Trump supporters.

Excellent117 on December 28, 2015 at 7:15 PM

So?

IDontCair on December 28, 2015 at 7:32 PM

PolAgnostic on December 28, 2015 at 7:25 PM

¡Jeb!’s campaign is really, really bad, no doubt.

They have basically nothing to work with, though.

Rubio seems to get his advice from Rick Wilson types, so he has no shot of going anywhere.

Trump has a natural sense of where the public is at, and Cruz is simply very smart and calculating.

The others are left in the dust.

Redstone on December 28, 2015 at 7:32 PM

George S. [email protected] 11m11 minutes ago

#BillClinton tried to hand out cigars after the birth of his 1st grandchild. Odd that no one wanted one.

IDontCair on December 28, 2015 at 7:35 PM

I’m tired of being screwed by Screwbio.

jaime on December 28, 2015 at 7:37 PM

Here’s evidence that Rubio’s not convincing anyone

With respect, I disagree: Rubio is convincing many doubters that he is, in fact, a lying creep.

GaltBlvnAtty on December 28, 2015 at 7:37 PM

MARK SIMONE [email protected] 57m57 minutes ago

Rahm Emanuel cutting Cuba trip short. Realized if he wanted to see poverty, decayed infrastructure, brutality, he could stay home

IDontCair on December 28, 2015 at 7:38 PM

The others are left in the dust.

Redstone on December 28, 2015 at 7:32 PM

.
I heard the dust was planning lawsuits against the media for associating it with the 2016 Republican Rejects

… You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy … outside of a Clinton or Obama campaign.

PolAgnostic on December 28, 2015 at 7:38 PM

I’m just surprised the real Republicans have put up with this crap for so long.

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 7:21 PM

Don’t forget that they funded ‘climate whatever’ in the omnibus bill and pretty much unlimited invaders, under the guise of ‘refugees’ and Hxxx visas.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:38 PM

especially with big endorsements like Trey Gowdy’s

I didn’t think Dondi Rubio could get any lower on my list. I was wrong.

Mr. Arrogant on December 28, 2015 at 7:39 PM

Allahpundit Retweeted
Political Math [email protected] 40m40 minutes ago

Throwing this out there: Cruz is running a solid campaign. The Rubio team needs to step it the f*** up if they want to compete.

Bmore on December 28, 2015 at 7:40 PM

Patti Dennis [email protected] 12h12 hours ago

BREAKING: Wisconsin Conservative and US Veteran Considering Primary Run Against Paul Ryan https://shar.es/1GSeDg via gatewaypundit

IDontCair on December 28, 2015 at 7:42 PM

Excellent. Cruz is right where he wants to be.

Rubio is right were Jeb! wishes he could be.

Trump is “I’M GOING TO BUILD A WALL!!11!!”.

portlandon on December 28, 2015 at 7:45 PM

I’m a Cruz guy, but this AP slur on Trump should not go unanswered:

“Why is Trump suddenly ripping on Trey Gowdy just because he endorsed Rubio? Wasn’t Gowdy in the mix to be his Attorney General not long ago?”

Back in July, when Trump made his statement, Gowdy looked good to a lot of people. Since then, however, Gowdy showed himself to be a typically weak all-talk and all-TV-moment RINO with his horrendous Benghazi performance and then doubled down by endorsing the lying amnesty shrill Rubio.
Those are reasons enough for Trump to be “ripping on Trey Gowdy.”

GaltBlvnAtty on December 28, 2015 at 7:47 PM

GTH you traitor Rubio.

trs on December 28, 2015 at 7:48 PM

Currently tracking 248 polls from 33 pollsters
Updated about 10 hours ago

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:56 PM

Trump is “I’M GOING TO BUILD A WALL!!11!!”.

portlandon on December 28, 2015 at 7:45 PM

It’s amusing watching you twist in the wind over that, as though several prominent GOP leaders including Juan McAmnestyCain haven’t promised the exact same thing for years. Where is your animosity toward them?

fossten on December 28, 2015 at 7:56 PM

Cruz and Rubio have both been going down since the latest immigration skirmish. http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary#!mindate=2015-06-29&smoothing=less&estimate=custom

cimbri on December 28, 2015 at 7:59 PM

For portlandon, and read very carefully, keeping in mind that Breitbart’s chairman is a filthy rich DC guy, pumping for Cruz.

As Trump makes clear, our country’s representatives have no clue. Worse, they seem content to remain in ignorance no matter how many Americans die, no matter how far sharia spreads. Not Trump. When you think about it, his call for a Muslim immigration moratorium is really a no-brainer — but whose “politically correct” brain is capable even of thinking of it, let alone calling for it out loud? I regret to say that Sen. Cruz does not support Trump’s moratorium, deferring instead to a rosier vision of Islam and immigration screening both in order, politely, to reject it.

That’s too bad, but so it goes, further testament to the fearless, agenda-setting powers of Trump. It’s really quite incredible: soon, maybe even before it’s too late, GOP primary voters will have a clear choice on walls, borders, immigration, even Islamic immigration (and, I would hope, the related issue of Islamic law), all because Donald Trump plucked these crucial issues from the void where the politicians, including good conservatives, have been eager to leave them.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:59 PM

I’m polled out

rik on December 28, 2015 at 8:07 PM

you are intellectually impotent, as are all Trump supporters.

Excellent117 on December 28, 2015 at 7:15 PM

Tiny violin for you.

SpongePuppy on December 28, 2015 at 8:08 PM

Rubio is getting his just desserts. For once in politics there was no time lapse between hubris getting smacked upside the head by nemesis.

The day after he attacked Cruz on immigration, Jeff Sessions, Michelle Malkin, and Rush all disagreed with Rubio’s take and spoke up for Cruz.

That left a mark on Marcus.

INC on December 28, 2015 at 8:16 PM

you are intellectually impotent

Excellent117 (aka Dan333) on December 28, 2015 at 7:15 PM

Rix on December 28, 2015 at 8:25 PM

National weasels with the laser lights on them

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:31 PM

INC on December 28, 2015 at 8:16 PM

Rubio is an opportunist. He was for the Gang of Eight bill because he thought it was going to go all the way. Amnesty for all the illegals and Marco wanted to be in the right side of the ledger when it did. It didn’t pass.

So now, Marco spends his days avoiding voting on anything in the Senate and trying to revise history. Marco Rubio is only second behind Trump on my list of people I will never vote for. The only difference between Trump and Rubio is that Marco did get elected to the Senate and he doesn’t have a brigade of howler monkeys praising his every word.

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 8:32 PM

Judge them by their actions.

Rubio is an amnesty vote.

Gowdy supports an amnesty enabler which makes him an amnesty supporter.

In Gowdy’s case he being an Atty should know the law.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 28, 2015 at 8:34 PM

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 7:25 PM

Meh.

Honestly not sure I can bring myself to vote for someone who will be complicit with the Dems in bringing this nation down.

Serious gag reflex even thinking about it.

lineholder on December 28, 2015 at 8:37 PM

howler monkey

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 8:32 PM

You once had a high IQ.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:37 PM

Enjoy the circus. Maybe they’ll take y’all to the zoo next week.
Adjoran on May 20, 2015 at 11:29 PM

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:38 PM

“especially with big endorsements like Trey Gowdy’s only now just starting to trickle in.”

Once again, people don’t understand this election is different than the ones they are used to. If the entire media, GOPe and Democrat Party have been unable to destroy Trump, then why to do they still think that these sort of “endorsements” mean anything at all, or will “sway” voters?

In fact, in this election cycle, being endorsed by DC insiders is a negative if anything, because the electorate is completely fed up with the lying, cringing, sold-out, PC, DC insider establishment scum who continuously stabs we American workers in the back. And it’s very unfortunate, but Trey Gowdy has repeatedly demonstrated he has joined this latter cohort.

Asok Asus on December 28, 2015 at 8:39 PM

You once had a high IQ.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:37 PM

Still do. You folks are the ones that have been dumbed down.

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 8:47 PM

dumbed down.

Happy Nomad on December 28, 2015 at 8:47 PM

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:53 PM

You, in fact are dumbed down to the level of the HA trolls. They and Adjoran are the only ones who look down and call their fellow voters animal names. You should go on your knees, in shame, and pray, you pious hack.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:55 PM

There are only two guys who can win the nomination now. And Rubio ain’t one of them.

K. Hobbit on December 28, 2015 at 9:00 PM

The robot barely beat an oompa loompa for his Senate seat – are we seriously talking about him as presidential material?

batterup on December 28, 2015 at 9:24 PM

Trump is “I’M GOING TO BUILD A WALL!!11!!”.

portlandon on December 28, 2015 at 7:45 PM

You forgot the rest of the quote, “with a big beautiful door, to allow the good ones to return”.

Tater Salad on December 28, 2015 at 9:25 PM

You, in fact are dumbed down to the level of the HA trolls. They and Adjoran are the only ones who look down and call their fellow voters animal names. You should go on your knees, in shame, and pray, you pious hack.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 8:55 PM

…..your concerned about someone calling you a name? Rich!

Tater Salad on December 28, 2015 at 9:27 PM

you are intellectually impotent, as are all Trump supporters.

Excellent117 on December 28, 2015 at 7:15 PM

Tiny violin for you.

SpongePuppy on December 28, 2015 at 8:08 PM

Played in concerto number ten D flat, up his wherever.

arnold ziffel on December 28, 2015 at 9:38 PM

You forgot the rest of the quote, “with a big beautiful door, to allow the good ones to return”.

Tater Salad on December 28, 2015 at 9:25 PM

And you forgot the part about where Tater Salad went from “we’ll simply disagree” type person, to a flat out jerk.

arnold ziffel on December 28, 2015 at 9:42 PM

er, surge??

james23 on December 28, 2015 at 9:46 PM

Can’t Stump The Trump

TheMadHessian on December 28, 2015 at 10:01 PM

Trump and Cruz supporters don’t care about winning a general election, all they care about is cramming their one way of thinking (immigration) down the throats of everyone or burn the party down trying to.

Trey Gowdy is now a “rino” “establishment” politician, Trump is the real conservative in their eyes. Tim Scott will become a “rino” “establishment” person too because he’s campaigning with Rubio, not Cruz.

All Cruz and Trump supporters care about is sticking it to “the establishment”.

So when they lose (and Trump and Cruz will lose the general election), they’ll just go back to yelling from their couches, getting angry listening to Levin, Limbaugh & Laura Ingram and buying Ann Coulter books, whilst Hillary Clinton puts more lefty judges on the Supreme Court, more regulations on business, adds more debt to this nation, let’s the Iran deal continue, ISIS threat will expand and grow more powerful in the Middle East and Bill Clinton chases interns around the Oval Office again.

sheryl on December 28, 2015 at 10:18 PM

Can’t Stump The Trump

TheMadHessian on December 28, 2015 at 10:01 PM

…In The Tank For Skank…

Pelosi Schmelosi on December 28, 2015 at 10:20 PM

All Cruz and Trump supporters care about is sticking it to “the establishment”.

So when they lose (and Trump and Cruz will lose the general election)

sheryl on December 28, 2015 at 10:18 PM

…nice intellectual dishonesty and revisionism…the establishment candidate LOST last 2 times and all Cruz/Trump supporters want to do is WIN..!!

…whomever your candidate is, if he’s not named Cruz or Trump, HE’S LOSING..!!

Pelosi Schmelosi on December 28, 2015 at 10:22 PM

…nice intellectual dishonesty and revisionism…the establishment candidate LOST last 2 times and all Cruz/Trump supporters want to do is WIN..!!

…whomever your candidate is, if he’s not named Cruz or Trump, HE’S LOSING..!!

Pelosi Schmelosi on December 28, 2015 at 10:22 PM

Okay let me rephrase it for you, Trump and Cruz will LOSE even more than Romney in the general election.

sheryl on December 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM

Gravis Marketing [email protected] Dec 27 Celebration, FL

Gravis Marketing Iowa Poll. Trump and Cruz tied 31%-31% Rubio 9% Clinton 49% Sanders 31%

https://twitter.com/GravisMarketing/status/681125666851565568

IDontCair on December 28, 2015 at 7:19 PM

But…

But…. I thought Cruz was 35,000% ahead of Donald Trump in Iowa???

NWConservative on December 28, 2015 at 10:51 PM

Mitt is very handsome, intelligent, attractive man. He looks like Matthew Fox’s, from Lost, distinguished, older brother. Plus it’s kinda sexy that he can speak French…..ooh la la!
sheryl on January 16, 2008 at 11:06 PM

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 11:07 PM

don’t need no intellectually.
train a’comin’

Rea1ityCheck on December 29, 2015 at 12:13 AM

Okay let me rephrase it for you, Trump and Cruz will LOSE even more than Romney in the general election.

sheryl on December 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM

It hardly matters, does it? In a winner takes all race, there are only two outcomes: “Winner” and “also ran.”

Whether you lose 51-49 or 85-15 matters not one tiny little bit.

The rest is you wish-casting.

You don’t know that they’re going to lose.

We DO, however, know that the last two GOPe “only one who can win!!!1!!11!!” candidates DID lose.

Trying something once and failing is unfortunate. Trying the exact same thing a second time and, predictably, failing is dumb. Going for the trifecta

There’s a word for that, too. But this is a family-oriented site, so I won’t use it.

Misha I on December 29, 2015 at 2:01 AM

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 11:07 PM

Schadenfreude: ‘establishment, establishment, establishment, blah, blah, blah….’

Trump and his supporters trash talking Gowdy/Rubio as rinos is laughable & sad.

All I know is that I’m in very good company in my support of Rubio, Trey Gowdy is a very very smart man, honorable, conservative and has a servants heart. He’s an extraordinary man and Trump isn’t good enough to shine his shoes. Or Rubio’s shoes for that matter.

The late great Andrew Breitbart thought Rubio could be POTUS so maybe the wise Mr Breitbart will be right, I sure hope so :) http://therightscoop.com/discovered-in-2011-andrew-breitbart-said-marco-rubio-could-be-president-in-2016/

sheryl on December 29, 2015 at 2:14 AM

Misha I on December 29, 2015 at 2:01 AM

Dear Misha, this is America, if I believe/know that Trump or Cruz would lose to Hillary in the general election, I can say it. Free speech. I will have no problem telling you I told you so, please feel free to feel the same in return.

Sorry I’m not of the belief of this mythical “establishment” unicorn that you all talk about here so often on HA nor do I believe that many here can tell who is a conservative & who isn’t, especially when many here are supporting an orange human-orangutan faux-conservative.

sheryl on December 29, 2015 at 2:25 AM

Dear Misha, this is America, if I believe/know that Trump or Cruz would lose to Hillary in the general election, I can say it. Free speech. I will have no problem telling you I told you so, please feel free to feel the same in return.

Dear Sheryl,

Please point me to the part where I tell you that you can’t say anything you want. I’m a huge believer in saying exactly what I want, I’m modestly (in)famous for that, so if at some point I told you that you couldn’t, then I’d like to know where.

If it’s because your response to somebody pointing out that you’re wrong on the Internets is “SUPPRESSION OF FREE SPEECH!!!!eleventy!!1!”, then you’re a Progressive Socialist (Prozi for short).

And it’s still not a violation of your free speech rights, as I am not now, nor will I ever be (I have this thing called self respect that has afflicted me since youth) part of the government.

I know this because I am an American too. I wasn’t born one, though, so I had to actually study the Constitution to find out what it means, which might be why I seem to understand the Constitution’s 1. Amendment a bit better than you.

And you’re still wrong.

But that’s alright. You have a right to be wrong. In public. Any time you want. Without fear of any repercussions worse than being told that you’re wrong. That is one of the many, many things that are truly great about America and being an American.

I didn’t always have that, I wasn’t born to that, so I know the difference.

Misha I on December 29, 2015 at 3:27 AM

About Rubio: He’s a proven liar.

One thing I learned while I was growing up was to never trust a proven liar. Because if he can lie once, he can lie any number of times.

That may be unfair to Rubio, he may have learned his lesson, but until he admits to his sin and grovels, I’d be an idiot to ever trust him on anything ever again.

I do believe, by the way, that Andrew uttered those words about Rubio before he was tragically taken away from us.

I dare say he might have had a thing or two to say about Marco after his immediate betrayal but, sadly, that was not to be.

I miss Andrew.

Misha I on December 29, 2015 at 3:31 AM

Misha I on December 29, 2015 at 3:31 AM

I miss Andrew too. I think he’d still be a Rubio fan. His good friend and a person who carries on Andrew Breitbart’s fine thinking on a lot of issues, Greg Gutfeld, likes Rubio and dislikes Trump and isn’t so much of a fan of Cruz…..so again I’m in very good company in my support of Rubio.

Rubio has fessed up to the gang of eight (he retracted his support) while Cruz hasn’t fessed up to his “legalization” support at all. In fact, Cruz has doubled down with “I have never supported legalization, I will never support legalization” yet there is video tape of him saying the different.

Trump is a big fat liar, he lies everyday, people call him on it, he says he never said it….lather rinse repeat.

There are no pure candidates, so your affront of Rubio is shallow at best.

sheryl on December 29, 2015 at 11:10 AM

Rubiolito is a Benedict Arnold to all he ever met.

Period.

Schadenfreude on December 28, 2015 at 7:08 PM

It’s morbidly amusing to watch the rabid dogs all turn on each other during the primaries.

Tlaloc on December 29, 2015 at 1:15 PM

It hardly matters, does it? In a winner takes all race, there are only two outcomes: “Winner” and “also ran.”

Whether you lose 51-49 or 85-15 matters not one tiny little bit.

The rest is you wish-casting.

Have you then not heard of the term ‘down ballot’?

You don’t know that they’re going to lose.

We DO, however, know that the last two GOPe “only one who can win!!!1!!11!!” candidates DID lose.

Misha I on December 29, 2015 at 2:01 AM

And we also know that Romney outperformed the GOP in general. He didn’t drag them down, they dragged *him* down. That kind of nukes your thesis.

And while we don’t know cruz/trump would lose we can strongly predict it based on demographic trends. Sure Hillary could have a heart attack and they could win by default, but other than that they are exacerbating every problem the right has with trying to win nationally.

Tlaloc on December 29, 2015 at 1:19 PM