Paul Ryan on Trump’s Muslim ban: This isn’t what our party stands for

posted at 1:21 pm on December 8, 2015 by Allahpundit

It isn’t? Go read the Ben Sasse post from yesterday if you haven’t yet. I’d wait for a poll or two about Trump’s plan to come out before declaring what the party believes now. If anything, Ryan’s begging the question. Are we a party? The line between Trump’s wing and everyone else gets a little brighter every day.

I don’t think this aren’t-you-ashamed rhetorical tactic works either, although I realize Ryan has no choice. The media’s been on ritual-denunciation watch for the past 20 hours, to the point where some of them are actually timing 2016 candidates to see how long it takes them to say something disapproving of Trump. If Ryan doesn’t show disgust then he’ll become the story, as the media would rather score a point on the new Republican Speaker than try again with Teflon Don. My pal Karl thinks I’m missing the point here: A strong thumbs down on camera from someone like Ryan who’s well known and well liked by all Republicans to the left of the tea party is a way to shape some of those polls that are inevitably coming next week. I think that’s the intent, yes, but Ryan’s point is already familiar to GOPers after hearing it from George Bush for eight years and from myriad others, the latest being Ben Sasse, over the previous seven. Who’s still waiting to form an opinion on whether Muslims as a group are sufficiently dangerous that they should be banned entirely from entering the country as presumptive terrorists one and all?

My point is that there are smarter ways to counter Trump’s proposal than telling someone who thinks it’s a fine idea that they’re a cretin. That’s half the reason Trump is as popular as he is — too many members of the political class fall easily into lecture mode, never more so than when discussing immigration, when pressed on an idea that populists like. It’s Obama’s single most egregious rhetorical mistake, even beyond his fondness for straw men. The man can. not. resist. lecturing about “who we are” when an opportunity presents itself, no matter how much popular support there is in the other direction. (E.g., barring Syrian refugees.) The supposition when a politician starts talking that way is that they have more of a right to define what America is than the voting public does, which is exactly the type of elite hauteur that keeps Trumpmania going. As another Twitter pal put it:

The lectures about “who we are” are a perfect example of that bullsh*t. I don’t mean to pick on Ryan in saying that; his intentions are good here and, like I said, his role requires him to speak up. But this is a less effective way to try to beat Trump’s “Muslim ban” than attacking it on the merits would be, a point also made by Erick Erickson at Red State today. You’re better off staying cool and picking the idea apart on substance: It’s a dumb way to screen for terrorists, it’ll alienate Muslims who haven’t been radicalized, it’ll damage cooperation with Middle Eastern intelligence services, and so on. Trump clearly hasn’t given five minutes of thought to the nuts and bolts of it. It’s something he squirted out like a wet fart because he thought the smell might mask Ted Cruz’s gains in Iowa for a news cycle or two. If Ryan and other Republicans are going to spend time at a podium talking about Trump, they should at least note that his calculus is always political, never policy-minded. There are a lot of Republican populists out there who desperately want better immigration enforcement and they’re clinging to a guy whose brilliant plan is to deport all illegals and then let most of them back in. He’s telling people what they want to hear and then winging it when pressed on the details afterward. How he’d actually govern is a total mystery, even to him.

But then there’s a reason why you don’t often see Paul Ryan or Marco Rubio noting popular discontent with America’s lax immigration enforcement, isn’t there? They’re amnesty fans. They’re part of the problem. They helped fertilize the seed of Trumpmania. Few big-name GOPers can approach Trump’s cred for being uncompromising while also claiming a sharp enough grasp of policy to accuse him of talking out of his ass in pushing unworkable ideas. Coincidentally, the guy in the lead in Iowa right now fits the bill. If and when he finally comes after Trump, that’s how he’ll hit him — no lectures or moral chastisement, just a calm dissection of why it makes no sense to deport people whom you intend to readmit and why a worldwide ban on Muslim visitors will do more harm than good. And then Trump will respond by pointing to the 2013 shutdown and reminding Cruz that he’s been sweet on some pretty unworkable ideas in his time too. And then we’ll really have a primary.

Oh, free advice for all future Trump denouncers: You might want to mention that this guy, through his endless attention-seeking, just bailed Obama out of an awfully unpleasant news cycle filled with stories about his ineffective Oval Office speech, his refusal to plainly acknowledge “radical Islam,” his stupid drooling over gun control despite California having some of the toughest laws in the country, and so forth. Maybe Trump can wait until Obama’s on some sort of roll politically before floating his next policy air biscuit.


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Comment pages: 1 3 4 5

Facts don’t stop being facts when they are repeated. Pertinent questions don’t stop being pertinent when they are repeated. That no one ANSWERS the question only drills my point home further, especially when they’ve got the gall to actually reply to it and not answer instead of just ignoring it. There’s something deeply wrong with you.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:32 PM

I’m sorry, but I can only respond to you now by pasting comments I’ve already written to somebody else.

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM

then let us discuss whether or not it should be banned in America or merely heavily restricted.

Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 5:31 PM

These are the only two choices, eh?

Yeah. Like I said, you people can stop pretending you’re defenders of the Constitution, now. The Founders roll in their graves.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM

Then it’s only safe to assume the answer is yes.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM

Facts don’t stop being facts when they are repeated. Pertinent questions don’t stop being pertinent when they are repeated. That no one ANSWERS the question only drills my point home further, especially when they’ve got the gall to actually reply to it and not answer instead of just ignoring it. There’s something deeply wrong with you.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:32 PM

Also, why aren’t you answering my questions? The fact that you aren’t says something very bad about you.

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM

Then it’s only safe to assume the answer is yes.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM

Answer my questions first.

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 5:37 PM

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM

You didn’t ask anything of me that I didn’t adequately respond to. But you know that. You’re just trolling, trying to throw at me the things I say to you that you can’t deal with to distract from the fact that you couldn’t deal with them.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:38 PM

Why are you so afraid of answering the question?

CanofCrazy on December 8, 2015 at 5:34 PM

Islam, in it’s current state is a clear and present danger to not only western civilization, but the world itself.

Islamists use other muslims as weapons. They do not launch bombers, or missiles from the Middle East, nor do they drive tanks through our streets. They attack us from within. Without muslims in western countries the threat from terror would rapidly disappear.

Therefore, it is only logical that all western assets and people be removed from the Middle East, and all Islamic assets and people removed from western countries. The two will go their separate ways until Islam can live in peace with other nations.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:40 PM

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:40 PM

That’s a weird reason to be afraid of answering the question. It sounds more like you trying to find excuses for the answer to the question being “yes”.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:42 PM

You didn’t ask anything of me that I didn’t adequately respond to. But you know that. You’re just trolling, trying to throw at me the things I say to you that you can’t deal with to distract from the fact that you couldn’t deal with them.

CanofNuts on December 8, 2015 at 5:38 PM

Stop lying. People have presented you with questions all evening and you have yet to answer one.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:43 PM

That’s a weird reason to be afraid of answering the question. It sounds more like you trying to find excuses for the answer to the question being “yes”.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:42 PM

Cannot you not read very well?

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

For all the bitter losers

Schadenfreude on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

Yeah. Like I said, you people can stop pretending you’re defenders of the Constitution, now. The Founders roll in their graves.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM

No one here accepts your ridiculous judgement of us.

You are too focused on your intellectual tap dancing to recognize the fallacy of your arguments.

However, since you like to dance, might I suggest a career in the circus?

bobthm3 on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:43 PM

Stop lying about me lying, liar. I’ve answered numerous things. None of you are answering my question and you know it. Some are outright trolling instead of answering, now. The closest to an answer was “Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 5:31 PM” which I addressed above, and it doesn’t look good for you.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

However, since you like to dance, might I suggest a career in the circus?

bobthm3 on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

Pole dancer?

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:45 PM

No one here accepts your… judgement of us.

And that changes things its validity, how?

[calls it fallacious for no reason]

[followed by insults as he continues to dance around the question, ironically insults that reference dancing]

bobthm3 on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

What a joke.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:47 PM

These are the only two choices, eh?

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:35 PM

You just got done admitting that Islam is not compatible with our founding principles. Now, you tell us, given that reality, what a third choice might be.

Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 5:47 PM

Stop lying about me lying, liar. I’ve answered numerous things. None of you are answering my question and you know it. Some are outright trolling instead of answering, now. The closest to an answer was “Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 5:31 PM” which I addressed above, and it doesn’t look good for you.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:44 PM

lol … too bad for you all people have to do is read the thread.

A liar and Islamic apologist posing as a protector of the Constitution.

You want to ban Islam!!!!!!!

So what if people want to ban Islam. Who cares? People want to execute “climate deniers” too.

Get a life lunatic.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:49 PM

Now, can you tell me how banning all Muslims from anywhere from entering the U.S. makes sense because the screening systems aren’t adequate when it comes to only SOME of them?

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 4:48 PM

Two words for you…..

Caliphate.

Taqiyya.

lineholder on December 8, 2015 at 5:49 PM

Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 5:47 PM

No, I didn’t.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:50 PM

lineholder on December 8, 2015 at 5:49 PM

Two words: Non sequitur.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:50 PM

So what if people want to ban Islam. Who cares? People want to execute “climate deniers” too.

Get a life lunatic.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:49 PM

Who cares? Apparently you do, since you won’t admit it.

For the record, *I* care about people who want to execute “climate deniers” and I would never point to someone like that to excuse ME taking the position of a – ahem – LUNATIC.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:52 PM

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:50 PM

If that’s what you think, then you either don’t understand Islam OR you do understand Islam and are an apologist for them.

lineholder on December 8, 2015 at 5:52 PM

Or rather, since you wouldn’t (past tense) admit it. But I guess you do now. Thanks.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:53 PM

What a joke.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:47 PM

Yes, you are, though you delude yourself into believing you have some moral authority that the rest of us lack.

bobthm3 on December 8, 2015 at 5:53 PM

bobthm3 on December 8, 2015 at 5:53 PM

Heh. That’s a good one, Trump supporters – the group whose mantra is “factlessness, dodging questions, and crassness are justified because other people aren’t living up to our expectations” – having “moral authority”.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:56 PM

I re-read this thread.

It’s amazing WHO is defending Islam, now.

fossten on December 8, 2015 at 5:56 PM

Who cares? Apparently you do, since you won’t admit it.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:52 PM

No … you’re that one that cares. A little bit too much.

It’s telling when someone will go to the crazy to defend Islam.

Anyone who cares more about whether Islam will be hypothetically banned than the actual death and destruction caused by Islam is probably wearing a burqa.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:56 PM

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:56 PM

I already said I care. The fact that you don’t is a problem. Also a problem, you lying about my priorities. But again, thanks for admitting you want to ban Islam.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:58 PM

Or rather, the fact that you don’t care as in you think banning a religion is okay. You still did care about admitting it, clearly.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:59 PM

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:58 PM

So, which is the higher priority for you, personally….protecting Islam? Or protecting the American legal system?

You can’t do both at the same time, any more than Muslims can be equally loyal to both at the same time. Too many points of direct conflict between the two.

lineholder on December 8, 2015 at 6:00 PM

I already said I care. The fact that you don’t is a problem. Also a problem, you lying about my priorities. But again, thanks for admitting you want to ban Islam.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:58 PM

lol

Alright then

Everyone is a liar, everyone is the problem but you … the defender of everything Islamic.

lol

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 6:00 PM

Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 5:47 PM
No, I didn’t.
CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:50 PM

Um ….. Yes, you did.


Islamism is incompatible.
But stop changing the subject away from the fact that a plurality of Trump supporters are okay with making Islam illegal.
CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:05 PM

If you wish to retract your former position, again, I ask you to please explain how the fundamentals of Islam are compatible with the fundamentals of our founding principles.

Cleombrotus on December 8, 2015 at 6:02 PM

Heh. That’s a good one, Trump supporters – the group whose mantra is “factlessness, dodging questions, and crassness are justified because other people aren’t living up to our expectations” – having “moral authority”.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 5:56 PM

Does that statement have any actual meaning outside of the little world you have managed to create for yourself, and continually attempt to bait us into?

I find none of your arguments compelling. You are simply constructing straw men and asking us if we approve of them.

It is a bit tiresome how you have managed to dominate the conversation simply by your relentless badgering, and not through any insightful argument.

bobthm3 on December 8, 2015 at 6:09 PM

CanofNuts is mad because people have had it with Islam and the so-called “moderates” who have done nothing.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 6:10 PM

I’ve now split my third pair of pants today still laughing at Paul Ryan’s attempt to define what “conservatism” is.

#Piker
#BleachedA–hole
#RuckFyan
#BanIslamNotGuns

Nutstuyu on December 8, 2015 at 6:23 PM

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 5:49 PM

CanofSuckass was spotted as an obvious troll years ago.

Christien on December 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM

CanofSuckass was spotted as an obvious troll years ago.

Christien on December 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM

Is apparently very protective of Islam.

darwin on December 8, 2015 at 6:30 PM

Trump is dead, y’all. Yet again.

Still what are the proposals of the other candidates? Once again, Trump has defined the debate.

Sherman1864 on December 8, 2015 at 6:39 PM

UPDATE-

Paul Ryan’s beard still looks stupid.

Redstone on December 8, 2015 at 6:41 PM

HeadinSand and TDS Screamer; the dynamic duo of TDS.

Don’t you dare say a negative word about Islam around these two they’ll go on and on for hours.

Redstone on December 8, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Still what are the proposals of the other candidates? Once again, Trump has defined the debate.

Sherman1864 on December 8, 2015 at 6:39 PM

If there’s another attack here, what is the first thing that will come to voters’ minds?

jersey taxpayer on December 8, 2015 at 6:49 PM

CanofSand is giving Schemer a run for his money.

vlad martel on December 8, 2015 at 7:06 PM

Good looking beard Paul!

russedav on December 8, 2015 at 7:07 PM

And this is exactly why more and more voters no longer identify as “Republican” but rather as “Conservative” or “Independent”.

The part left US. Trump is saving it single-handedly.

Aslans Girl on December 8, 2015 at 7:35 PM

Party, not part…

Aslans Girl on December 8, 2015 at 7:37 PM

Good looking beard Paul!

russedav on December 8, 2015 at 7:07 PM

Its his Muslim solidarity beard.

Reuben Hick on December 8, 2015 at 7:40 PM

Trump is going to win the nomination and this guy will be a relic preaching to a handful. What does “our” party stand for? Dumping 100,000 stinking Muslims in our country to be our neighbors because, “that’s what America is all about”? I know democrats sell this claptrap but Republicans too? Trump is going to exclude these people from his administration and they will be obsolete.

Dollayo on December 8, 2015 at 8:35 PM

He grew a beard to show is solidarity?

Dollayo on December 8, 2015 at 8:37 PM

The Party stands for what we say it stands for.

claudius on December 8, 2015 at 8:55 PM

“…not what this part stands for.”

That’s why there’s no reason to vote for you.

Dan_Yul on December 8, 2015 at 9:17 PM

Hello, pardon the interruption…I am here to interject my life here for a minute. Fellow conservative and Hotair fan. I am battling Stage 4 Lymphoma and my wife is physically disabled who now needs back surgery. To say we are struggling is an understatement. I set up a gofundme site last year to raise funds for my treatment and research. Unfortunately, my situation is worse. If you could donate or spread the word, I would appreciate it. Merry Christmas!

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bigsavvy on December 8, 2015 at 10:09 PM

If we are supposed to be so accommodating to Islam–a “religion” founded by a murdering, thieving, lying, raping, pillaging pedophile–then why aren’t we nicer to Nazis (considering H!tler was a bohemian, artist, and decorated veteran of World War I)?

Nutstuyu on December 8, 2015 at 10:38 PM

Jihadi Paul Ryan – What a FAKE CONSERVATIVE!!!

What a mistake for Speaker’

No Improvement, if NOT WORSE THAN BOEHNER ! ! !

Nat George on December 8, 2015 at 10:43 PM

Nutstuyu: exactly, while we were at war with the Nazis we did not allow Germans in. I think that is a pretty close parallel.

rgranger on December 8, 2015 at 11:11 PM

Speak for yourself Mr. Ryan. What we need from the House of Representatives is legislation that declares US recognition that Islam is a criminal enterprise started by a violent criminal who was obviously guilty of mass murder, rape, and robbery. You cannot love Muhammed if you don’t love muder, rape, and robbery.

Val on December 8, 2015 at 11:16 PM

“Other people are bad so I can be bad, too.”

Trump supporters in a nutshell.

CanofSand on December 8, 2015 at 3:47 PM

No, why should one follow the rules when your enemy is not?

Look up plenary power doctrine. There is nothing unconstitutional about Trumps idea/plan.

oryguncon on December 9, 2015 at 12:07 AM

Your party stands for nothing but bigger government to enrich yourselves. Illegals, refugees still streaming in. Blood is on your hands, Ryan, Obama, McConnell. Shut the damn border and no more immigration indefinitely.

racquetballer on December 9, 2015 at 12:08 AM

As Ryan acknowledged, he has no business chiming in, because he is not running against Trump…is he?

We don’t know what Ryan stands for, beyond financing the ruinous schemes of Democrats.

At this point, there is nothing to lose by vacating the chair and halting all new business, until Obama retires, is impeached or loses interest in his unwanted transformation.

virgo on December 9, 2015 at 12:30 AM

And that lying piece of crap Can of Sand, defender of soldier bashing witch Rosie O’Donnell, also comes out simultaneously as ignorant about the US Constitution and as an apologist for Islam. The same hack who ignored my answer to his comments, which was the very thing that he said other commenters were doing for hours on end.

NWConservative on December 9, 2015 at 5:19 AM

Yes it is Paul.
A true conservative will err on the side of caution, a RINO will pander at the side of Demtards.

kregg on December 9, 2015 at 5:39 AM

Please tell us, Mr Ryan. What DOES the republican party stand for?

MsYoung on December 9, 2015 at 7:46 AM

WTF Does the “Party” stand for Mr. Ryan? Well, I’m waiting! I will tell you this, that if a third party existed supporting conservative ideas without the isolationism of the Libertarians, I’d be there. The GOP is rapidly becoming the Gutless Opposition Pool!

Boats48 on December 9, 2015 at 7:50 AM

Time to CANTOR ryan.

Lee Jan on December 9, 2015 at 8:06 AM

If were Trump I would throw those two wonderful Muslim congressmen back in Ryan’s face. They are NOT good examples to use of how Muslims are such great Americans. And those two sure as heck do not “uphold the Constitution”:

http://wannabeanglican.blogspot.com/2015/12/bad-examples-mr-speaker.html

By the way, I see one of them, Andre Carson, says he’s received death threats. I would not be too sure of that. He has lied before.

WannabeAnglican on December 9, 2015 at 11:10 AM

Ryan grows a beard but no brains.

Sherman1864 on December 9, 2015 at 11:29 AM

So the hand-picked mouthpiece for the GOPe doesn’t like what the GOPe’s main adversary says?
I so miss when America actually had two different parties….both loving this nation.

Don L on December 9, 2015 at 12:08 PM

He wasn’t like this before the beard.

Q

Deafdog on December 9, 2015 at 3:36 PM

My point is that there are smarter ways to counter Trump’s proposal than telling someone who thinks it’s a fine idea that they’re a cretin.

I was willing to give Ryan a try. Much more of this and I’m done with him.

petefrt on December 10, 2015 at 7:30 AM

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