I suppose we’ll have the Confederate Battle Flag fight all over again… in Mississippi

posted at 4:31 pm on November 28, 2015 by Jazz Shaw

As the New York Times reports this week, we obviously didn’t have enough other things to worry about between terrorists trying to burn down the world (at least the Christian parts of it) and our cities spilling over with racially charged protests and riots. No… that’s not enough to keep anyone busy, so we may has well have yet another fight over the Confederate flag. Having cast out the demons of South Carolina and turned the entire state into a bastion of racial equality and harmony, the fight moves even deeper into the deep south. Dane Waters, the head of Tipping Point strategies, is heading to Mississippi in an attempt to bind together a coaltion of community and government leaders to tear the stars and bars from the state flag once and for all.

This week, Mr. Waters, a self-described conservative who has been retained by a group of people he declined to name, will arrive in Mississippi to pick up a difficult task: forming an unlikely and perhaps unmanageable alliance of preachers, business executives, state boosters and civil rights advocates to remove forever the Confederate battle flag from the state flag.

He is working with the Flag for All Mississippians Coalition, which was started by Sharon Brown, an activist in Jackson, who is black. The campaign has already been organizing supporters and held a hundreds-strong rally at the State Capitol. But Mr. Waters spoke of other tools that will be brought to bear outside the public eye, such as pressure on political donors and lobbying in the Legislature.

We’ll see how that works out. The people of Mississippi held a referendum regarding redesigning the flag and in 2001 and it was rejected by a wide margin. Other incomplete movements have been ginned up several times since then and the state’s residents don’t seem to have changed their feelings overly much. That doesn’t stop the various “interested parties” from outside the state, though, and it’s not just Dane Waters. My friend and radio co-conspirator Doug Mataconis tends to look at the flag issue in a rather black and white way (if you’ll pardon the phrase) and has determined that anyone who supports this symbol of hatred and resistance to racial equality is simply on the wrong side of history and needs to get right with whatever program is on the horizon. (Outside the Beltway)

The reality, of course, is that the debate that occurred in South Carolina in the wake of Dylann Roof’s racially motivated murders in a church closely tied to both the struggle against slavery and the Civil Rights Movement is one that needs to occur throughout the south, and perhaps nowhere more than in Mississippi which was a focal point of both the worst aspect of the Confederacy and the resistance to the end of Jim Crow. Whatever those nostalgic for the history of the Civil War might tr to say, it is obvious that the Confederate Battle Flag long ago became a symbol of hatred and resistance to racial equality rather than some remembrance of heritage. In some sense, the debate over this issue was settled in the wake of the war, when Robert E. Lee himself, who became President of what is now Washington & Lee University in Virginia argued that the flag should not be displayed in public  and left instructions that no such flags were to be displayed at his funeral or his grave after he died. Indeed, it wasn’t until the resurrection of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s and then most especially the Civil Rights Movement in the 1950s that the flag seems to have become a public symbol again.

After Brown v. Board of Education and similar decisions from the Supreme Court, and the efforts of the Eisenhower Administration and subsequent Presidents to enforce Federal laws protecting the rights of African-Americans, many states in the South began flying the flag and integrating it into their state symbols in what was obviously an attempt to foster resistance to Washington and an effort to intimidate the African-American residents of their respective states. As the years went by, many states began to abandon those symbols, but it was Charleston that really brought home the point that it was time to abandon the flag as anything other than a museum piece, which is the step that South Carolina has taken. Mississippi should take a cue from its fellow Southern state and enter the 21st Century already.

Doug, my old friend, you’re a great guy, but I’m afraid you have far too much blue Jersey blood running through your veins (read: “Yankee“) to ever really get this issue deep down in your bones. And I’m also sensing a bit of willful blindness to dates in the history books to boot.

It’s fine for detractors who assume by default that anyone with the offending flag on their pickup truck is a racist to fling about such claims, but they need to be supported in fact. First of all, there may have been a spread and resurgence of the flag (in various versions) during the 1920s and the 1950s, but it’s simply ignorant to claim that the flag “wasn’t a public symbol” from the end of the Civil War until then. Without much checking, (indeed, right in the New York Times article linked above) you will note that the stars and bars have been flying over Mississippi continuously since the 1890s as part of the state flag currently under discussion. That doesn’t mean it was hidden in closets or trotted out in a clandestine fashion for Klan meetings. It was over the state capitol and everywhere else the state flag flies. It was in plenty of other places as well.

But quibbling over dates in a history book doesn’t get anywhere near the heart of the matter I give credit to the Times reporter for actually going out and speaking to some of the residents who actually get it because they live it.

“My flag’s been flying for 33 years, and I’m not about to take it down,” said Nancy Jenkins, 58, a postal worker who is white and who flies the Mississippi flag and the United States flag at her house a block south of Louisville City Hall. “It doesn’t stand for hate. It means a lot of people fought and died.”

Indeed, Nancy, a lot of people fought and died to be sure. But it goes much deeper than that and spans the history of the nation. That’s something I learned from living in the South for a fair while and getting the know the people there. (Darned nice of them to tolerate a Damn Yankee from New York and allow him into their homes.) Back in July I attempted to express some of this as best I could in a column which generated the greatest number of letters (supportive ones, anyway) I’ve ever received from a single piece. The vast majority were from southerners, of course. It dealt with what I learned was the real meaning of the stars and bars.

None of that had anything to do with endorsing slavery. None of it had to do with a war that happened more than a century before aside from the wreckage left behind. It didn’t matter if you were black or white as long as you remembered that you were southern. And in that we find the greatest embarrassment of all in this debate. It seems that any other demographic group in the nation can be proud of their heritage… except for The South. If you are from below the Mason-Dixon you will seemingly live in perpetuity with the scars of the antebellum past. And if anyone wants to spit on you in the gutter after you’ve been beaten down in the contest of public debate, there will be nobody to defend you. It’s always okay to make fun of the southern man. And if you want to tear down his flag or even his flagpole, the nation – and most particularly the media – will throw you a ticker tape parade.

“The South” – at least as defined as a unique, richly flavored heritage in the American melting pot – nearly died at the end of the 19th century. But it hung on in the tenacious way that southerners have always held on. They held on even as they came (as Virgil Cane said) and tore up the tracks again. And as they held on and regrouped through the 20th century, they had a symbol to cling to. It might not have been the best symbol, and others would obviously see it as a sigil of war, but it was the symbol they had. And they hung on to it. It grew to mean something deeper and more profound about the cultural identity of just being from The South when everyone else wanted to pretend that The South had never existed.

That’s what it’s all about. And it’s what it’s been about for a very, very long time. And if there’s one more thing that we Yankees (along with everyone in the SJW) should learn, it’s that southerners hang on to tradition and pride like an alligator with a deer carcass. If you’re coming to try to take it away you’d best be ready for a fight. And be sure to bring a bag lunch and a flashlight. It’ll probably take all day and most of the night.

Oh, and before we go, Doug… Lynyrd Skynyrd called and asked me to leave you a message.


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Comments

Old Glory up next.

cimbri on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

That flag isn’t disappearing.

That’s what all of this is about. Making it illegal to fly or even own.

I have seen more of them around since last Summer than I have ever seen before.

Moesart on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

I agree that the Dem Party should denounce their battle flag, denounce slavery, and pay reparations of $5 trillion to every American citizen.

Shame on them.

faraway on November 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM

Battle over – Ole Miss already removed the flag from campus.

kcewa on November 28, 2015 at 4:44 PM

Please keep it up libs. That ‘creeping fascism’ you’re so scared of is fueled by precisely this kind of stupidity. While I’m not particularly fond of fascism, its rise would imply your destruction, and since we’re going to have dictatorship at any rate, I’d rather see those responsible (you) go first.

avgjo on November 28, 2015 at 4:44 PM

OT

Jazz, make a thread with this, on a football Sunday, of days.

Schadenfreude on November 28, 2015 at 4:45 PM

All resident leftists should feel too distraught to comment on this story without counseling after seeing the front picture.

Star Bird on November 28, 2015 at 4:45 PM

This week, Mr. Waters, a self-described conservative who has been ‘retained by a group of people’ he declined to name

…George Soros …is a group?

JugEarsButtHurt on November 28, 2015 at 4:46 PM

Making it illegal to fly or even own.

Moesart on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

Confederate flag supporters indicted under Georgia terrorism law

The Confederate Battle flag is now de-facto illegal.

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 4:50 PM

{{{{Jazz}}}}

*Smooch*

Thank you, Jazz!

lineholder on November 28, 2015 at 4:52 PM

Mataconis, like all ignoramuses, is an idiot. He’s welcome to stay in his little provincial back water state of NJ and stew for all I care.

Quartermaster on November 28, 2015 at 4:52 PM

Making it illegal to fly or even own.

Moesart on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM
Confederate flag supporters indicted under Georgia terrorism law
The Confederate Battle flag is now de-facto illegal.

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 4:50 PM

…like Mexicans…get 20 or 30 million of them!…………..then what?

JugEarsButtHurt on November 28, 2015 at 4:53 PM

That flag isn’t disappearing.

That’s what all of this is about. Making it illegal to fly or even own.

I have seen more of them around since last Summer than I have ever seen before.

Moesart on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

I suspect that in the issue of America vs Mississippi is one that the GOP is not eager to rush to the side of MS.

Tlaloc on November 28, 2015 at 4:55 PM

..then what?

JugEarsButtHurt on November 28, 2015 at 4:53 PM

How many will fly them, if one phone call to your employer will lose you your job? Get you kicked out of school? Put you on a “terrorist” watch list?

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 4:55 PM

Flag Nazi’s!

canopfor on November 28, 2015 at 4:56 PM

MeanWhile,…..speaking of Red Flags,…midnight tonight?:

United States
NSA surveillance programs leaked
3h
US government’s collection of bulk data from telephone calls ends at midnight; requests will now be made to telephone companies to check data – @NBCNews
End of alert
===============

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/massive-nsa-phone-data-collection-cease-n470521

canopfor on November 28, 2015 at 4:58 PM

How many will fly them, if one phone call to your employer will lose you your job? Get you kicked out of school? Put you on a “terrorist” watch list?

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 4:55 PM

… sort of like ‘e-verify’…oh!…but with ‘enforcement’!

JugEarsButtHurt on November 28, 2015 at 4:59 PM

wish south now being stonger in manufacturing as well as its historically strong agriculture are people sure they want to do this stuff?
second civil war would turn out differently.

dmacleo on November 28, 2015 at 5:00 PM

wish south now being stonger

that should say:
With south now being stronger

dmacleo on November 28, 2015 at 5:04 PM

Counseling, for FlagStickerVicTims,…..oh really??
—————————————————-

DailyCaller

Education
Mass. School Offers Counseling For ‘Victims’ Of Confederate Flag Sticker
Philip DeVoe
8:33 PM 11/26/2015
*******************

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/26/mass-school-offers-counseling-for-victims-of-confederate-flag-sticker/

canopfor on November 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM

but with ‘enforcement’!

JugEarsButtHurt on November 28, 2015 at 4:59 PM

The “soft” fascism of the progressives – the “government” isn’t going to ruin your life for not toeing the agenda, the hordes of SJWs brownshirts will happily do the job.

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 5:09 PM

Lincoln should have outlawed the democrat party after the civil war. I met a black man recently who had relatives fight for the confederacy in order to gain the freedom. He thinks the fag deal is BS.

Jackson on November 28, 2015 at 5:12 PM

Eff Lynrd Skynrd … they sold out on the flag.

Moron Labe on November 28, 2015 at 5:14 PM

Please get your terminology correct. The stars and bars is the first national flag, NOT the Confederate battle flag. Google it.

docmcbride on November 28, 2015 at 5:15 PM

Eff Lynrd Skynrd … they sold out on the flag.

Moron Labe on November 28, 2015 at 5:14 PM


Lynyrd Skynyrd denounces Confederate flag, angering some fans

Underestimate the SJWs at your peril.

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 5:17 PM

Dane Waters is no conservative, or not my definition of a conservative.

Doug Mataconis is not one either…he should go play in the many toxic waste dumps that New Jersey has.

Before this all started I was basically neutral on the whole issue. I had ancestors that fought on both sides of the war. However, as this issue has spread to other states, and going well beyond the flag (including graves, monuments, etc.), but also to Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson…I now have found my inner rebel.

I have no interests in reaching out now, or trying to appease the left or anyone else. They will either accept me for who I am, or not. Appeasement brings only more demands, for it is a never ending cycle for the left until someone says, “no”. Sadly the GOP is filled with lots of “yes” men and women.

I remember how Mitt Romney started this whole cave in on the Confederate Flag in the GOP, and TV shows like the “Five” (Gutfeld and Perino) celebrated it. I remember the take down of it, and how it was turned into a left wing spectacle when they could have easily took it down at night. We can thank the inept GOPe SC governor for that.

Their cave in and celebration of it opened Pandora’s Box, because it gave a green light to leftist everywhere to rip American history, ancestors, graves, heroes, etc. out of the nation, and reducing the nation to one that has no history. We can thank them for this when Thomas Jefferson’s statue comes crumbling down.

And they make fun of Neville Chamberlain…when in fact they are him! Appeasers!

William Eaton on November 28, 2015 at 5:18 PM

Well, bless his little heart….

d1carter on November 28, 2015 at 5:20 PM

ROFL. Can’t wait to see how many Confederate Flags get purchased as Christmas gifts this year!

Progressive policies boosting sales of the flag just like they do for guns.

lineholder on November 28, 2015 at 5:23 PM

Jazz, you might consider getting some new friends…j/s

d1carter on November 28, 2015 at 5:23 PM

That flag isn’t disappearing.

That’s what all of this is about. Making it illegal to fly or even own.

I have seen more of them around since last Summer than I have ever seen before.

Moesart on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

I suspect that in the issue of America vs Mississippi is one that the GOP is not eager to rush to the side of MS.

Kenny Bania on November 28, 2015 at 4:55 PM

What do you “suspect” in the issue of America vs Hawai’i, Bania?

That Democrat State, where your Cult Hero says he was born, is the only State in America to incorporate the Racist British Union Jack into its own State flag. That Union Jack flew on plenty of British ships engaged in the Atlantic slave trade.

When your Democrat Party starts facing up to and admitting its own long Racist history (does Senator Robert “KKK” Byrd, D-WV ring a bell?) we’ll all stop laughing at your shallow DNC idiocy.

F-

Del Dolemonte on November 28, 2015 at 5:24 PM

Jazz, just to make it clear for you (NY yankee and all), the Miss flag instituted the Battle Flag on the state flag, not the “Stars and Bars”, which was the First National Flag of the Confederacy; the ‘political’ flag, as opposed to the soldiers’ flag on the Miss state flag. The square (not the rectangular Naval Jack that most see) flag was the soldiers’ flag in the field, most notably as assigned to the ANV. This flag IS NOT, and never was, associated with slavery, except in the bigoted, ignorant little minds of idiot yankees and their associated scalawag historical revisionist fascists. I hope I am not being obscure. Btw, there are approximately 80 million ancestors of Confederate vets in this country, unfortunately, most of whom are traitorous cowards. Deo Vindice.

vnvet on November 28, 2015 at 5:25 PM

My friend and radio co-conspirator Doug Mataconis

LOL ‘Friend’

(Doug is a straight up [blank])

TheMadHessian on November 28, 2015 at 5:28 PM

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 5:17 PM

The real Lynyrd Skynyrd died in a plane crash 35 years ago…

d1carter on November 28, 2015 at 5:29 PM

Some folks really need to get a life.

Jazz, I doubt that before this, your Jersey friend even knew what the hell a Confederate Battle Flag looked like.

GarandFan on November 28, 2015 at 5:32 PM

Great insight Jazz….

There is always a question we ask “know it all Yankees”, like Mr. Waters when they come to visit; how long does it take to get from Washington to Richmond?

Tilly on November 28, 2015 at 5:40 PM

Bought my 1st one this summer. Looks great in my 3 car garage. Neighbors like it!

hardrock230 on November 28, 2015 at 5:45 PM

Del Dolemonte on November 28, 2015 at 5:24 PM

YES.

vnvet on November 28, 2015 at 5:46 PM

There is always a question we ask “know it all Yankees”, like Mr. Waters when they come to visit; how long does it take to get from Washington to Richmond?

Tilly on November 28, 2015 at 5:40 PM

Approx four years.

vnvet on November 28, 2015 at 5:48 PM

Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner!!!

Mr. Vnvet congratulations, unless you are one of us and then it does not count…lol

That Waters’ fellow might just leave the state of Mississippi having to suck his hash browns through a straw.

Tilly on November 28, 2015 at 6:10 PM

Listen to this song while you read this thread.

Galtian on November 28, 2015 at 6:11 PM

F$&@ ole miss college students….

sorrowen on November 28, 2015 at 6:35 PM

The Paris shooting mastermind was pictured with an Islamic flag standing in front of a mosque. If there are associations that should be driven out of our society, I can think of two that should be targeted before we mess with the Confederacy.

Happy Nomad on November 28, 2015 at 6:41 PM

leave history alone!

some people in our fracked up country get insulted over Old Glory, how dare they. This is theRepublic of the USA, not the northern states of central America.

losarkos on November 28, 2015 at 6:41 PM

Confederate flag supporters indicted under Georgia terrorism law

The Confederate Battle flag is now de-facto illegal.

Rebar on November 28, 2015 at 4:50 PM

Yeah, and dangerous:

Black Confederate flag supporter killed in Mississippi crash

A black supporter of the Confederate flag was killed in a car crash — and his passenger claims they were being chased.

Anthony Hervey, 49, was reportedly driving home on Sunday from a rally for the controversial flag when he lost control and rolled an SUV near Oxford, Miss.

His passenger, Arlene Barnum, alleged a car carrying four or five young black men pulled alongside their Ford Explorer and started shouting as they traveled into Mississippi from Birmingham, Ala.

The Mississippi Highway Patrol hasn’t commented on Barnum’s account and released few details of the crash. A spokesman for the agency didn’t respond to the Daily News’ request for comment.

Hervey was a curious figure around Oxford, where he sometimes dressed as a rebel soldier. Carrying a Confederate flag, he wore a T-shirt saying “THE WELFARE STATE HAS DESTROYED MY PEOPLE” during one of his many protests.-NYDT, July

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 28, 2015 at 6:58 PM

OT: the Tuscaloosa knee grows beat the Auburn knee grows tonight.

Galtian on November 28, 2015 at 7:13 PM

ISIS wants to help.

TBSchemer on November 28, 2015 at 7:14 PM

When the Flag and Wilson and other reminders of the Democrat Party’s involvement in racism are gone, then the current Dems will no longer have to put so much work into pretending that all of that stuff is the fault of the GOP.
If there were any actual Republican symbols of racism, the Left would want to keep them around as evidence.

AesopFan on November 28, 2015 at 7:19 PM

If there were any actual Republican symbols of racism, the Left would want to keep them around as evidence.

AesopFan on November 28, 2015 at 7:19 PM

You’re right. That’s why Bill Clinton convinced Donald Trump to run for president.

TBSchemer on November 28, 2015 at 7:24 PM

If things go “south” (pun intended) in this country, I am sitting in one of the states that will rise to the occasion, not sink to the level of “no way to defend their liberty or land”.

Tilly on November 28, 2015 at 7:45 PM

As a 7th generation, life-long Mississippian, prior to all these brouhaha out of Charleston, I really couldn’t have cared less what they’d put on the flag, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to have a bunch of “feelz” jerkovs tell me what flag we choose to represent our state.

I assure you, the flag will stand in Mississippi.

NowIveSeenItAll on November 28, 2015 at 8:08 PM

When are Delaware and Kentucky, exempted from the Emancipation Proclamation, going to have their State flags removed or protested?

Ruckus_Tom on November 28, 2015 at 8:11 PM

Having lived most of my life in the south and now reside in new England, the SJWs should focus their efforts up here. Never have I witnessed such segregation and open bigotry as I have in Massachusetts and Connecticut.

Defenestratus on November 28, 2015 at 8:25 PM

So have the SJW’s made a list of what flags/combination-of-symbols are and are not allowed? Is the Burnet Flag to be outlawed, given it’s inspiration from the Bonnie Blue Flag? Or the Lone Star Flag, for being too similiar? Could MS just run any of the hundred-odd other ‘Confederate’ flags and the SJW’s be none the wiser? I’m always curious about the parameters of these “I’m offended by that” issues.

Buckshot Bill on November 28, 2015 at 8:39 PM

Having lived most of my life in the south and now reside in new England, the SJWs should focus their efforts up here. Never have I witnessed such segregation and open bigotry as I have in Massachusetts and Connecticut.

Defenestratus on November 28, 2015 at 8:25 PM

No kidding. They get a pass because they vote for the right party.

HumpBot Salvation on November 28, 2015 at 8:43 PM

Having lived most of my life in the south and now reside in new England, the SJWs should focus their efforts up here. Never have I witnessed such segregation and open bigotry as I have in Massachusetts and Connecticut.

Defenestratus on November 28, 2015 at 8:25 PM

Note that the universities where the snowflake fascists are voluntarily calling for segregation by race and ethnicity are most, if not all, in the North (including California for this purpose).

AesopFan on November 28, 2015 at 8:46 PM

Of course, out of state people, AGAIN!

If you are not from the South, why the hell is this so important to you?? All we want is to be left the hell alone!

[email protected] on November 28, 2015 at 9:57 PM

Whatever those nostalgic for the history of the Civil War might tr to say, it is obvious that the Confederate Battle Flag long ago became a symbol of hatred and resistance to racial equality rather than some remembrance of heritage.

And how qualified is Doug Mataconis to say exactly what the Confederate Battle Flag means to all the residents of Mississippi?

What is truly obvious is that Mataconis started with an assumption about what is in the hearts of other people and jumped straight to an assertion.

The same concerns about the flag have been brought up in the past, and several alternative state flags were proposed. In 2001, a referendum was held at considerable expense across the entire state to determine whether to adopt a new flag or keep the old one. It was literally the only vote on that referendum. The ballot contained no names, just a picture of the old flag and the proposed new flag. Choose one or the other. You can see the ballot here: https://ballotpedia.org/Mississippi_Flag_Referendum_%28April_2001%29

In spite of the new flag proposal being pushed by the governor, a former governor, the Mississippi NAACP, and the Mississippi Council on Economic Freedom, 65% of the people voted to keep the flag as it was. That’s nearly a two-thirds majority.

Clearly, these people want to deprive the people of the state of Mississippi the right to choose their own state flag. Very progressive of them.

There Goes the Neighborhood on November 28, 2015 at 10:51 PM

That flag isn’t disappearing.

That’s what all of this is about. Making it illegal to fly or even own.

I have seen more of them around since last Summer than I have ever seen before.

Moesart on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

I suspect that in the issue of America vs Mississippi is one that the GOP is not eager to rush to the side of MS.

Tlaloc on November 28, 2015 at 4:55 PM

America vs. Mississippi? Do you even understand the concept of state sovereignty?

There Goes the Neighborhood on November 28, 2015 at 10:58 PM

Very curious why my previous comment disappeared?

Seventh gen. Mississippian, and frankly, prior to the Charlotte brouhaha, didn’t really care 1 way or another about the state flag.

But no Soros funded jerkov is going to decide for me what flag is acceptable to them.

Mississippi flag will stand. I guarantee – whether put to popular vote or through chambers of the legistlature.

NowIveSeenItAll on November 28, 2015 at 11:50 PM

A battle flag hangs over my reloading bench, and a picture of Robert E Lee hangs in my living room. I’m a Southerner even though I now live in NW Montana and will probably die here. It’s funny, the longer Obama is in office and the more the Progressives show up in the news, the more Southern I become. It’s creepy the way they’re feeding the leftist propaganda through the media all the time, anti-Christian, anti-Liberty, it’s Fascism through and through.

claudius on November 29, 2015 at 3:06 AM

NowIveSeenItAll on November 28, 2015 at 11:50 PM

That’s the way I feel about it. Frankly, I don’t care if they want to characterize it as a racist symbol any more. It’s their fascist attempt to silence expression that gets my anger up. BLM is clearly racist, yet we’re supposed to pretend it isn’t, yet a symbol of the Old South and Lee’s magnificent army is labeled nothing more than a racist symbol. I’m not buying any of their poisonous snake oil, and I’m starting to consider those who are using it TWANLOC, those who are no longer our countrymen.

The inestimably acute and prolific blog-commenter Subotai Bahadur coined that acronym and has propagated it across the conservative-libertarian corner of the blogosphere ever since. It has achieved the status of an entry on Acronym Finder, for whatever that is worth. It is shorthand for “those who are no longer our countrymen” – itself an abbreviation for a slashing denunciation of those American colonists who were in sympathy with the wishes of Great Britain by Samuel Adams on American independence, delivered in a fiery stem-winder of a speech at the Philadelphia Statehouse in August of 1776 –

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/44007.html

claudius on November 29, 2015 at 3:23 AM

wish south now being stronger in manufacturing as well as its historically strong agriculture are people sure they want to do this stuff?

second civil war would turn out differently.

dmacleo on November 28, 2015 at 5:00 PM

put Rick and Daryl on speed dial

Younggod on November 29, 2015 at 4:44 AM

Isn’t the entire democrat party a symbol of slavery?

Maybe we should eliminate it.

darwin on November 29, 2015 at 7:40 AM

I suspect that in the issue of America vs Mississippi is one that the GOP is not eager to rush to the side of MS.

Tlaloc on November 28, 2015 at 4:55 PM

Considering the fact that you consider all US Forces fighting since after WWII to be terrorists, is it a stretch to believe you’d relish making more popular historic icons illegal? Do you want to make the Americal Patch illegal because of My Lai?

hawkdriver on November 29, 2015 at 9:13 AM

I grew up in the South in the 40’s and 50’s. ‘The South will rise again’, was talked about a lot, still, and the burning of Atlanta made people mad. My ancestors all fought for the Confederacy and all picked their own cotton. My grandparents belonged to the kkk at one time but never talked about it. They never wore sheets or hung anyone. Our high school band played Dixie for the fight song. Collecting the money was a hobby and we never expected it to become the nations’s currency. We talked about our family history and how they tossed the silverware down the well if the union army was on the way. It was a real time and we can’t erase it from the history of the country just because someone gets the vapors. Old Glory has already been banned by some HOAs. I wait for it to be banned from public places altogether soon, probably to be replaced by O’s symbol.

Kissmygrits on November 29, 2015 at 9:31 AM

Old Glory up next.

cimbri on November 28, 2015 at 4:35 PM

After all, it flew over a racist nation for about 100 years.

Techster64 on November 29, 2015 at 11:32 AM

Leave the Mississippi state flag alone and instead turn attention to Barack Hussein Obama’s birthplace of Hawaii. Have you ever seen the Hawaii state flag? It’s canton contains the British Union Jack! I find that more offensive than the “Rebel Flag”.

SpiderMike on November 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/44007.html

claudius on November 29, 2015 at 3:23 AM

Well done!

Who is John Galt on November 29, 2015 at 3:41 PM

Here’s one guy’s very personal take. I’m black, I don’t speak for all black people, but I suspect about 98% of black people would agree with my perspective.

I don’t think the confederate flag should be the official flag of any federal, state or local public entity, and I don’t think anybody should want it to, but that’s for the people of those different jurisdictions to decide. I think people should be able to fly it or otherwise display it, because that’s freedom of speech. If their community ostracizes or otherwise responds negatively to them because of it, I say great. If their community thinks it’s fine or actively cheers, I say shame. But that’s America.

A lot of commenters have said that people who are not from the south simply don’t get it. That the confederate flag symbolizes something deep and fundamental, a history and heritage encompassing any number of things about the south, its culture, its history and people that are elemental to it’s meaning to southerners. They suggest that racism and slavery, while certainly bound up in the flag’s symbolism, are merely incidental to it’s meaning, rather than core to what it stands for. You can have a lot of fine debate about it, a lot of fascinating historical discussion. I suppose there is something to that argument. Personally, I don’t think race and racism are incidental to the confederate flag’s symbolism, but I’ll accept this view of it at face value as sincerely felt and believed by its proponents.

As a black citizen, as a descendant of people who were enslaved, as a descendant of people who wore the Union uniform (13th US Colored Heavy Artillery) the confederate flag is the symbol of the people, who had they won, would have kept me and mine enslaved to this very day. It’s the symbol of the people who fought and died by the thousands, who were willing to kill thousands of their fellow white citizens, for the right to maintain my family members who came before me as chattel within a routine and organized system of degrading, violent and inhuman slavery so that I could one day be born into it as well. When I look at the flag, what I see are the colors of the people who desired to perpetuate a continuous and barbaric crime against humanity on me and mine and were willing to kill and die for it. Show a swastika to a Jew and you get a visceral reaction that pretty much anybody understands. Show me or any other regular black citizen a confederate flag, pretty much the same thing. It’s the symbol of people who fought a war to preserve their ability to enslave and degrade us. That’s what I see and that’s never gonna change.

Political Season on November 29, 2015 at 9:28 PM

Political Season on November 29, 2015 at 9:28 PM

Great points … and I agree with you. However, I’m inclined to believe that the battle isn’t really over the flag itself, but the constant attempts on the left to make people bow to their demands.

Democrats keep chipping away at history, tradition, religion, values, guns, and pretty much anything you can think of.

“You can’t say this … you can’t do that … you can’t display this … you can’t do anything unless we approve”.

I think that’s mentally people are sick of and it shows itself in issues like this.

If someone, or some group simply would articulate what you just said to the people of Mississippi … not demanding, just explaining how black people feel … the flag just could possibly go out without a fight.

darwin on November 30, 2015 at 8:06 AM

As a black citizen, as a descendant of people who were enslaved. . .

Political Season on November 29, 2015 at 9:28 PM

. . . you deserve squat.

You were never a slave. Your mama was never a slave. Your mama’s mama was never a slave.

If anything, black folk have received many many times damages in the $ trillions of handouts given over the past half century. The problems y’all face now are solely the result of a dysfunctional sub-culture you choose to live with.

Stop centering your life around victimhood. Time to move on and grow a personality and a productive life of your own.

Younggod on November 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM

Younggod on November 30, 2015 at 9:15 AM

I don’t see anywhere where he asked for anything. He simply expressed his opinion on the matter.

darwin on November 30, 2015 at 9:19 AM