Did Rubio deal a mortal blow to ObamaCare?

posted at 1:01 pm on November 25, 2015 by Ed Morrissey

If so, it was a remarkably mundane demand that punctured the ObamaCare balloon. Two years ago, Marco Rubio won a fight during the budget battles to include a requirement for HHS to maintain budget neutrality in its risk-corridor programs. Rubio had pushed back against this program for months, claiming — as it happens, accurately — that it was a back-door bailout of the insurance companies that had cooperated in the effort to pass ObamaCare. Instead of allowing HHS to dip into general funds for risk-corridor payments, Rubio’s rider restricted those payouts to funds collected from taxes on insurers.

The move forced HHS to cut expected risk corridor payments to pennies on the dollar, and prompted the closure of more than half of the co-ops launched by HHS to provide supposedly low-cost coverage. Now that United Healthcare has signaled that it may cut its losses and get out of the ObamaCare market, The Hill credits Rubio with starting the death spiral many predicted when Democrats first passed ObamaCare in March 2010:

The risk corridors program was designed to be a temporary stopgap against high insurance claims during the first three years of the new federal program.

If an insurer had more expenses than it planned, the federal government would cover the remaining balance using cash collected from companies that paid out fewer claims than expected.

The program was almost certain to need extra money in the first few years, when there were fewer healthier customers signing up. But Rubio’s provision in 2014 severely limited any new spending by requiring the program to become budget neutral.

The damaging effects of the budget-neutral requirement became clear in October.

The Obama administration disclosed it could only afford to pay 13 cents of every dollar owed to the insurance companies — after insurers had already locked in their rates for the upcoming year. …

Within weeks, about a dozen start-up insurers known as CO-OPs announced they’d be shutting their doors, in most cases because they lacked the cash flow to stay solvent. And at least two other insurers — WinHealth Partners in Wyoming and Moda Health in Washington — pulled out of the exchanges.

At the time, no one was under any illusions about Rubio’s intent, either. Allahpundit pointed out almost immediately that it would accelerate the death spiral, thanks to a lack of ability for government to prevent it. Business Week noted that Rubio’s bill went beyond merely limiting the risk corridor payouts to handcuffing HHS to keep it from rescuing insurers. By May 2014, the threat was sufficient that the White House pledged to find more funding for risk corridor payouts. Peter Suderman sounded skeptical about the prospects for additional funding, and Suderman turned out to be right, as events have shown in the past several weeks.

Does Rubio deserve credit for killing ObamaCare? Well, like the peasant in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, ObamaCare ain’t dead yet. It’s possible that starting a death spiral can have unintended consequences. Not long after Rubio’s rider became law, Blue Cross Blue Shield warned (for reasons of self-interest, mainly) that the death spiral would force the government into a single-payer system. Much depends on what comes afterward, and who gets to make those decisions. A Republican Congress won’t pass a single-payer system, but a Democratic president won’t sign a repeal of ObamaCare. If the collapse begins in October 2016 with United and possibly other insurers parachuting out of the individual marketplaces, then a Republican president would be in good position to sign a repeal — and would have a lot more likelihood of getting elected to boot. Otherwise, what might happen is that the system crashes, and nothing follows for several years while the taxes and the mandates still apply.

But Rubio should get credit, at the very least, for pushing a common-sense and utterly necessary firewall to protect taxpayers from a massive and perpetual health-insurance bailout. The risk corridor program was supposed to last three years while insurers found the sweet spot on premium pricing; it lasted two. The massive payments that would have gone out in the third year without the budget neutrality requirement show that this program would never have come to an end. The fantasy of co-ops providing cheaper insurance was exposed as just a government-subsidized bait-and-switch scheme. Rubio’s intervention made it clear that ObamaCare isn’t a system just going through some learning-curve bumps in the road, but a fundamentally flawed and dishonest scheme that would have hoodwinked taxpayers on costs for decades.

If that leads to ObamaCare’s repeal and replacement with a rational, market-based reform, then Rubio will deserve credit for the win. But let’s win first before handing out the trophies.

Update: Case in point: The White House wants to restore access to deficit spending to fund the risk corridor payouts, to no one’s great surprise. But Timothy Carney discovers that the Obama administration’s preening on lobbyists takes a back seat to getting United Healthcare back within the fold:

CMS said it “will explore other sources of funding for risk corridors payments….” CMS also declared the unfunded portion of Obamacare’s initial promised insurer bailout was nevertheless an “obligation of the United States Government for which full payment is required,” even though at least under the current appropriation law it is illegal.

This is where the intimate network of the Obamacare insiders comes in. CMS — which issued the pledge to fully bail out United Healthcare and its cohorts — is run by acting administrator Andy Slavitt. Slavitt is a former executive at United Healthcare (while he held that position he contributed to Obama’s 2008 election).

Slavitt’s appointment and management of bailout money for UHC clearly clashes with Obama’s much ballyhooed ethics rules, which require appointees to swear: “I will not for a period of 2 years from the date of my appointment participate in any particular matter involving specific parties that is directly and substantially related to my former employer…” In acknowledgement of this conflict of interest, Obama issued an ethics waiver for Slavitt.

Meanwhile, the insurance lobbyist leading the industry’s push for more Obamacare bailout money is Marilyn Tavenner, Obama’sprevious chief of CMS, now head of America’s Health Insurance Plans. AHIP says risk corridors aren’t the group’s top focus, but Tavenner is speaking out on it.

In summary: Tavenner helped build the risk corridor program, and then went to the industry that would get the money. Slavitt left the insurer with the biggest losses, and now is the government official promising to bail out his former employer.

In a shorter summary, the Obama administration is opposed to insider regulation and crony capitalism … unless it refers to their insiders and cronies.


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Comments

Compelling case for trump right there.

Thanks. Suck it up diva.

You either vote Trump, as the nominee, or you are de-facto voting for Hillary.

Blah blah blah I’m voting for Hillary Clinton

Why didn’t you just say so?

But Trump is totally against this GOPe or something, he would never sell anyone out or anything like that.

Well that is the chance voters are apparently right now willing to take,

Hopefully people will come to their senses.

Unlikely. And their numbers are growing larger, not smaller.

Trump would never get in league with the worst to get what he wants. He has such an excellent character, right?

Well if he does, then he would be no better than Mitch McConnell, Ryan, or the rest of the candidates.

When has Cruz ever done that?

V7_Sport on November 25, 2015 at 9:59 PM

Did him voting to illegally reduce Constitutional requirements for Senate consent on the Obama-Iran treaty not make it to Shoe fantasy land?

NWConservative on November 25, 2015 at 11:14 PM

Schadenfreude on November 25, 2015 at 10:58 PM

Turning on the GOPe makes you a traitor to the country, didn’t you know that?

And voting for Hillary Clinton is acceptable only if Trump is the nominee…

NWConservative on November 25, 2015 at 11:31 PM

Looks like Ed got an email from the RNC directing him to promote Little Marco.

bw222 on November 25, 2015 at 11:36 PM

Burn This GOPe B!TCH Down!!!
OmahaConservative on August 30, 2015 at 2:21 AM
rubio continues to be worthless as a conservative.
GO TRUMP GO!!!!!
Pragmatic on November 25, 2015 at 2:32 PM
Rubio blew something, but I don’t think it was obamacare.
Andy__B on November 25, 2015 at 6:18 PM
And many other..

OMG, Hillary is the problem, wake up!! I think/know these posts are results due to unfortunate evolutionary occurrence in nature. Definitely “Darwin Awards” material. Thank God these humans have only one vote. I feel dumber from reading this material. I don’t know who to feel sorry for..them, their Parents or God forbid, their offspring. No wonder this world seems doomed. LOL

whsiii on November 25, 2015 at 11:42 PM

NWConservative on November 25, 2015 at 11:02 PM

They were never meant to change any fact, idiot, they were meant to insult you. You are so dumb that you need it explained to you that you are being insulted. That, right there was an insult.

Shoe, we are talking about your crazy spamming you just did,

So we can add “spamming” to the list of many, many things that you don’t get.

I’m not the one taking my entire evening to compile every comment someone made who:

It wasn’t my entire evening and it wasn’t every comment he made. Meanwhile, you are taking your entire evening running block for Trump, even trashing Cruz to see this clown elected. So much for the “Trump is good for Cruz” argument, but you knew that was BS back then.

That is some ninth level crazy you did.

So we can add “crazy” to the long list of concepts that you are too dumb to get.

that you actually sat down, compiled the list, and quoted each one to spam the thread.

Go look up “spam” idiot.

Who said you retyped them? Are you really this technologically illiterate?

You are the one who is desperately trying to make the case that it was a huge effort to copy and paste.

Google and “Command C” are these wondrous inventions.

It figures you would be an Apple nutcase

Because the type of computer you use makes you a nutcase or something.

since only idiots would pay almost double for devices that do less to make a “statement.”

Or that there is software that only runs on it. What was that about “technologically illiterate?”

So your comments that not capitalizing words caused you physical pains were either exaggerated or lies?

I never wrote that. You are lying and you are so stupid that you actually believe your own BS.

Because you’re a grammar Nazi. Silly shoe.

What would you be able to say without blinks hand up your butt? Pretty much nothing.

Compelling case for trump right there.

Thanks. Suck it up diva.

Yeah, that was sarcasm. Funny how I call your puppet master “diva” and you think that’s a good thing to parrot.

Blah blah blah I’m voting for Hillary Clinton

Why didn’t you just say so?

I didn’t write that, guess you are fine with not having any credibility.

But Trump is totally against this GOPe or something, he would never sell anyone out or anything like that.

Well that is the chance voters are apparently right now willing to take,

Hopefully people will come to their senses.

Unlikely. And their numbers are growing larger, not smaller.

Good of you to acknowledge that trump followers haven’t come to their senses. Idiot. You are hopping on a bandwagon to lash out at the GOP. Not some mythical “gope” but the Republican party is what you want destroyed. You don’t care that nothing will stand in the way of the democrats and you don’t care that whatever replaces the GOP, after years of reinventing the wheel leaving the democrats in charge will have the same exact problems as the current GOP. You con’t care what happens to the country, you just want to make a big demonstration of your butthurt. Grow up, infant. It’s not all about your hurt feelings, it’s about preserving the republic.

Did him voting to illegally reduce Constitutional requirements for Senate consent on the Obama-Iran treaty not make it to Shoe fantasy land?

Yeah, that’s not quite what happened there, liar. Regardless, the idea that trump is a conservative is a joke that only idiots like you believe.

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

Idiot.

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

You TDSrs do have Tourettes.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:13 AM

the idea that trump is a conservative is a joke that only idiots like you believe.

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

Your sickly camp made that up.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:14 AM

Idiot.

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

You TDSrs do have Tourettes.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:13 AM

I said Idiot, if I were calling you I would have said “wobbly”.

I have a simple question for our friends:

“I voted for Romney; would you vote for Ted Cruz?”

Aside from my friend, V7, none answer.

Schadenfreude on March 22, 2015 at 1:14 PM

Heh…

Your sickly camp made that up.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:14 AM

My sickly camp? Patriots? Conservatives?

We must defend what we believe in. The insulters of OUR side can go to Hell, and I don’t care how hot the layer.

Deal, good night, and the very same on yer back.

Schadenfreude on January 2, 2015 at 1:37 AM

Do you really believe a word Trump says Schadenfreude? Do you believe for instance he is going to deport 11 million people in a year? Or 18 months? Or 2? Want the math on that?
Would you personally, Schadenfreude, buy a used car from this man let alone turn over the remains of the republic? (Which wont happen, it will mean a Clinton victory)

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 1:38 AM

Obama’s much ballyhooed ethics rules

There are people who ballyhooed an Obama ethics rule?

Where is my Oxford English Dictionary? I need to look up the definition of the word ‘ballyhoo’….

percysunshine on November 26, 2015 at 9:26 AM

sheryl on November 25, 2015 at 3:48 PM</blockquote
Why do you keep referring to Hillary as Trump's girlfriend? Have you seen how haaawwwt Trump's wife is? Are you in third grade?

Nutstuyu on November 26, 2015 at 11:24 AM

So we can add “spamming” to the list of many, many things that you don’t get.

Quit projecting fool. I’m not the one who thinks Wikipedia has access to your personal computer’s processor number.

I’m not the one taking my entire evening to compile every comment someone made who:

It wasn’t my entire evening and it wasn’t every comment he made.

Just 80%. Lol!

Meanwhile, you are taking your entire evening running block for Trump, even trashing Cruz to see this clown elected. So much for the “Trump is good for Cruz” argument, but you knew that was BS back then.

That would be blink with that line of thought. And he’s right too. Or are you ignoring polling again that has Cruz in second place?

You must be very mad then.

That is some ninth level crazy you did.

So we can add “crazy” to the long list of concepts that you are too dumb to get.

Blink really had you pegged V7_Have_You_Seen_My_Stapler? How original. Let’s add crazy to the list of things you have no idea what it means.

that you actually sat down, compiled the list, and quoted each one to spam the thread.

Go look up “spam” idiot.

I don’t need to use a dictionary to talk to people like you do Shoe.

Who said you retyped them? Are you really this technologically illiterate?

You are the one who is desperately trying to make the case that it was a huge effort to copy and paste.

You really are reaching to explain your crazy Shoe. I said you compiled the list of his quotes, which required you to:

1. Google his comments.

2. Go into every thread he made that comment and copy it (CTRL+C for non Apple navel gazer cultists).

3. Paste it into your crazy-stupid long comment here.

4. Put quotes around each one.

5. Post it.

No one, I repeat, no one cares about the GOPe being namecalled as much as united states navy pencil pusher Shoe does. If only you put your crazy behind pushing for the government to follow immigration law instead of defending the GOPe and capitalizing letters.

Google and “Command C” are these wondrous inventions.

It figures you would be an Apple nutcase

Because the type of computer you use makes you a nutcase or something.

No, YOU are a nutcase. Who uses overly expensive products to make a “statement.” It fits.

since only idiots would pay almost double for devices that do less to make a “statement.”

Or that there is software that only runs on it. What was that about “technologically illiterate?”

Oh god. Are you also a amateur “videographer” too? LOL!

You are technologically illiterate because you believe that Wikipedia can hijack your hardware by snapping their fingers and that you think that you have to retype comments to quote people here.

So your comments that not capitalizing words caused you physical pains were either exaggerated or lies?

I never wrote that. You are lying and you are so stupid that you actually believe your own BS.

Lying again Shoe. It causes you pain to see navy lower case except when navy is used for a color. Which of course was wrong too, but your ego can’t admit even that.

Troll boy is just interested in spreading the pain and doesn’t care if he has to insult the USA or the USN to do it.

V7_Have_You_Seen_My_Stapler? on November 22, 2015 at 7:18 PM

Because you’re a grammar Nazi. Silly shoe.

What would you be able to say without blinks hand up your butt? Pretty much nothing.

I know, I know. Everyone who disagrees with you is just a sockpuppet for that one guy who really disagrees with you.

Compelling case for trump right there.

Thanks. Suck it up diva.

Yeah, that was sarcasm. Funny how I call your puppet master “diva” and you think that’s a good thing to parrot.

No, you project your insecurities and inadequacies on to everyone else.

Blah blah blah I’m voting for Hillary Clinton
Why didn’t you just say so?

I didn’t write that, guess you are fine with not having any credibility

No you strongly implied it, I did you a favor by paraphrasing. I can’t be here to correct all your stupidity all the time Shoe. I hope blink comes in eventually to help out with slow walking you to your conclusions.

But Trump is totally against this GOPe or something, he would never sell anyone out or anything like that.

Well that is the chance voters are apparently right now willing to take,

Hopefully people will come to their senses.

Unlikely. And their numbers are growing larger, not smaller.

Good of you to acknowledge that trump followers haven’t come to their senses.

No because when you talking about “senses,” you mean being against deportation of illegal aliens and working with democrats.

Idiot. You are hopping on a bandwagon to lash out at the GOP. Not some mythical “gope” but the Republican party is what you want destroyed. You don’t care that nothing will stand in the way of the democrats and you don’t care that whatever replaces the GOP, after years of reinventing the wheel leaving the democrats in charge will have the same exact problems as the current GOP. You con’t care what happens to the country, you just want to make a big demonstration of your butthurt. Grow up, infant. It’s not all about your hurt feelings, it’s about preserving the republic.

It must be incredibly trying for your ego to square that argument with you voting for Hillary Clinton next year against Trump as the nominee. Because you don’t really care about the country, because it has ALWAYS been about you and your feeeeeeelings. Your taking your ball third party or to the democrats because you lost your choice for the nomination in the GOP primary is not going to do a thing to help the country or preserve the republic.

50% agreement is better than 0%, which is what your advocating by threatening to give the country to the democrats. If Trump is the GOP nominee, you elect Trump and hold his feet to the fire. You don’t win by losing V7.

Or are you saying that this phrase has been a lie?

Did him voting to illegally reduce Constitutional requirements for Senate consent on the Obama-Iran treaty not make it to Shoe fantasy land?

Yeah, that’s not quite what happened there, liar. Regardless, the idea that trump is a conservative is a joke that only idiots like you believe.

V7_Have_You_Seen_My_Stapler on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

Oh, so how many votes did it take to pass the Obama-Iran treaty here?

NWConservative on November 26, 2015 at 12:57 PM

My sickly camp? Patriots? Conservatives?

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 1:38 AM

You’re not the only ones, you silly people. And you call us all sorts of names. I have news for you. We don’t care what you call us.

We are not “wobbly” and we buy our cars from wherever we damn choose to.

You can say all you want about T. Until your candidates beat him, on the issues and the numbers, it’s all hot air.

Last Nov. was the last fooling. Repeat this a million times, or until you get what we are about. Your insults are just fun. The more you make them, the less inclined we are to join you for anything.

Our aims are at the DC traitors. Enough is enough.

Have a good Thanksgiving and know that I don’t read the miles and miles of your banterings, no matter who you are. It’s puerile and it convinces NO one. I brought on board hordes of new voters, and will work hard to form coalitions, the likes which have not been in years. I don’t care to join the likes of Wilson and Muir. They are political terrorists and I will work hard to kill their aims.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:32 PM

All of which you say is “the truth” and all of which we say is “the lie”.

Meh. Good luck, chumps. The train left a long time ago and it’s Thanksgiving. From now until after the New Year hardly anyone will pay attention to any politicos or what you have to say.

It’s a good Thanksgiving and the season is better than most. To have you all exposed and dancing is just part of the entertainment. Bigger fish to fry, and they know it.

McConnell, Boehner, and now even more so Ryan, are all Benedicto Arnolds. Marcolito is just their little punk.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:35 PM

rubio the amnesty punk…has a good ring to it

GO TRUMP GO!

Pragmatic on November 26, 2015 at 3:50 PM

Rubio does seem to deserve a “well done” here.

One question though, how did that bit of financial sanity ever get past the Surrender Monkeys, Boehner & McConnell?

But not to worry Democrats, fixing this is easy peasy for the Chief Traitor John Benedict Roberts, the cheapest of cheap politicians. A little rewriting of the law by Benedict and all’s well for the hated ObamaCare.

RJL on November 26, 2015 at 3:54 PM

Yeah, that’s not quite what happened there, liar. Regardless, the idea that trump is a conservative is a joke that only idiots like you believe.

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

Funny, but I think you were Romney’s third or fourth most ardent supporter on hot air claiming him to be the most severest of conservative in 2012.
Some how I am thinking that, even though I do not support Trump in the least, that when it comes time to fight Democrats he will stand up, where Romney stood down.

Constitutionalist on November 26, 2015 at 4:23 PM

Rubio does seem to deserve a “well done” here.

One question though, how did that bit of financial sanity ever get past the Surrender Monkeys, Boehner & McConnell?

But not to worry Democrats, fixing this is easy peasy for the Chief Traitor John Benedict Roberts, the cheapest of cheap politicians. A little rewriting of the law by Benedict and all’s well for the hated ObamaCare.

RJL on November 26, 2015 at 3:54 PM

He did not bring it forward on his own. It was brought forward with over a dozen other Republicans.

Here we are.

The other signatories on the letter were Republican Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas, Mike Lee of Utah, Rand Paul of Kentucky, John McCain of Arizona, John Barrasso of Wyoming, David Vitter of Louisiana, Mike Enzi of Wyoming, James Inhofe of Oklahoma, Jeff Sessions of Alabama, Deb Fischer of Nebraska, John Boozman of Arkansas, Pat Roberts of Kansas, and Tom Coburn of Oklahoma.

I wonder why only Rubio is being given credit here?

Constitutionalist on November 26, 2015 at 4:30 PM

What a strange article. Hot Air is usually far more realistic than other partisan websites. After decades of disappointment, have we learned so little?

Obamacare is immortal because the President and five members of the court say so. It does not matter what the branch “of, for, and by the people” writes or passes – Obama’s administrative agencies and Justice Robert’s have already decree’d that the plain text of the law (and the Constitution) are irrelevant.

The idea of the people in a Republic being the sovereign is the stuff taught to 5th graders, but the reality is that 5 lawyers in robes and one elected President have more power than all the politicians and legislators born and unborn.

It’s obvious – a Democratic President will illegally fund Obamacare to keep it alive, and Justice Roberts and at least four others will contrive a reason to make it legal. They’ll issue the same mumbo jumbo about ignoring the text of the new law for a contrived ambiguity or daffy definition and then declare that the eternal and immutable purpose of Obamacare is beyond the reach of us mortals.

Congress is for rubber stamping Presidential and Supreme Court 5 lawyer rulership, nothing more. If the people and their Congress get out of line, they will be smacked down.

Get real. The Republic died long ago.

Max Parrish on November 26, 2015 at 4:45 PM

This wont be a problem, knowing for one that Rubio is nothing more then a RINO elitist establishment pro amnesty believer. If he made a mistake that would hurt Obama, I am sure they will get it fixed. And even if Rubio was smart enough to do this on purpose, I am sure that McConnell, Harry Reid, Hoyer and Paul Ryan will all get together to save it. And if that doesn’t work I am sure Obama’s politburo ( aka SCOTUS) can find a fix for him. They always have before and now that they have 5 guaranteed liberal rubber stamp jurist on the court with the addition of John Roberts there is no question that Obama and his ilk will get what they want. By the way it looks like he got his amnesty thing to the SCOTUS. So they will be passing that totally unconstitutionally law that Obama admits he changed with out authority simply by fiat.

pwb on November 26, 2015 at 6:20 PM

The dems may be a lot of things, but they’re not stupid. They knew the rider from Rubio would start the death spiral. Then they can have single payer. It’s a game with the left- and right-wing progressives. Make no mistake about it — Rubio would shove us under the bus just as quick as the current occupant.

Trump/Cruz 2016

Conservchik on November 26, 2015 at 7:21 PM

The more I see the derangement of those opposing Trump the more inclined I am to actually support him, rather than probably voting for him as “not as bad as the other choice.” Right now, it’s either Cruz or Trump for me.

Rubio? I won’t vote for the GOPe nominee ever again. The last time was when I voted for Sarah Palin’s running mate.

Wino on November 26, 2015 at 8:09 PM

Given his past statements, Ocare isn’t a strength for Trump. I think the Trumpettes wished we could just get back to deporting the illegals.

Tater Salad on November 26, 2015 at 10:24 PM

Taters, taters, Happy Thanksgiving.

Trump/Cruz, for 12 years. You can add it up.

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 10:28 PM

Rubio…….

Unmitigated Abject Ass-Clown!!

williamg on November 27, 2015 at 1:13 AM

PS..Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family..:)

Dire Straits on November 25, 2015 at 4:29 PM

Thanks, Dire! Best to you and yours!

John the Libertarian on November 27, 2015 at 3:35 AM

Ass-Clown!!

williamg on November 27, 2015 at 1:13 AM

C’mon, william. Are you telling me you’re a single-issue on amnesty? That’s the least of my concerns. Right next to global warming. You must have other issues more pressing than that.

John the Libertarian on November 27, 2015 at 3:38 AM

Schadenfreude on November 26, 2015 at 1:32 PM

You’re not the only ones, you silly people.

Are you quite sure about that? Seems like the right has given up on conservatism and has for a while. Folks here seem to be much more interested in putting on a display rather than doing anything to get genuine conservative or even “good” governance. The very idea of working to get what you want has become a joke. No one knows how the system works and they don’t give a damn. The only thing that everyone is behind are big counterproductive gestures and venting here to put on a display of high dudgeon which has become an end unto itself. It’s all that we do and it achieves nothing.
The idea that Donald Trump is the great hope for the nation is just sad. It’s sad that this is what everyone has glommed on to. It used to be a blessing for Americans that we got the government we deserve: When the choice is Clinton or Trump It’s become a curse. If Trump is what “we” insist on we really don’t deserve to govern.

And you call us all sorts of names.

I haven’t called YOU anything. This “us” sh!t. If you want to identify yourself with the worst of the worst here we should just get it over with. For the record it was you who asked me to take a look at Cruz and warts and all, and I did. Meanwhile you jumped on the next shiny, gold tone yuuuuge thing to be a part of “us”. Verywell. There are a million reasons to take a principled stand against this 4 times bankrupted carnival barker and the only thing that’s on his side is to be a part of “us”. Look at what you are siding with Schadenfreude, look real hard.

I have news for you. We don’t care what you call us.

“Wobbly” is what I called you. Prove me wrong.

We are not “wobbly” and we buy our cars from wherever we damn choose to

This country can’t stand another 4 years of incompetent governance. It really couldn’t stand the last 4.

You can say all you want about T.

No I can’t. I need to be shut up by the braintrust and the mobys. I’ve been likened to a pedophike, a Nazi and, weirdly, footwear for taking contrary positions here. If you are the spokesperson for “us” now you ought to know you can dish it out but you can’t take it.

Until your candidates beat him, on the issues and the numbers, it’s all hot air.

Since when do issues have anything to do with anything? Clinton donor? Fine, Supports Kelo v New London, dandy, says a ludicrous thing per hour? Great… Issues…

Your insults are just fun. The more you make them, the less inclined we are to join you for anything.

Fine, wobbly, have fun.

Our aims are at the DC traitors. Enough is enough.

Because Trump has been such a pain in their ass. You are electing someone who has a track record of is telling them what they want to hear and then turning around and collaborating with the worst of the worst to get what he wants. Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss.

Have a good Thanksgiving

You as well.

and know that I don’t read the miles and miles of your banterings, no matter who you are.

The whole “we” would not approve.

It’s puerile and it convinces NO one.

You mean unpopular.

I brought on board hordes of new voters,and will work hard to form coalitions , the likes which have not been in years

I very much doubt it. Work is harder than complaining here.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 4:16 AM

Constitutionalist on November 26, 2015 at 4:23 PM

Funny, but I think you were Romney’s third or fourth most ardent supporter on hot air claiming him to be the most severest of conservative in 2012.

Romney was to the right of trump, more importantly, you could believe what he said.

Some how I am thinking that, even though I do not support Trump in the least, that when it comes time to fight Democrats he will stand up,

I’m thinking he’s a narcissist who has made a living telling people what they want to hear and then doing what’s best for himself. I’m thinking he wouldn’t hesitate to continue that pattern in office.

where Romney stood down.

Romney blew it. People didn’t turn out for him. Look what it got us.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 4:22 AM

NWConservative on November 26, 2015 at 12:57 PM

Literally every response you made is a mischaracterization and outright lie of either my position or of reality itself. The whole trump candidacy is already an insult to people’s intelligence, the extent that you are willing to lie for him shows what a sh!tty character you have.

I’m not the one who thinks Wikipedia has access to your personal computer’s processor number.

You are the one who declared they don’t exist.

Just 80%. Lol!

Look at the post you just popped onto this site. Is that brief or to the point or you just flailing? You are here 24/7 lying for trump. Don’t even try to pretend you have a life.

That would be blink with that line of thought. And he’s right too. Or are you ignoring polling again that has Cruz in second place?

You think what blink tells you to, you are weak that way. The idea that the trump campaign has done anything beneficial for any other candidate other than Trump is a sad joke and that you are willing to parrot that shows you to be a sad joke as well.

Blink really had you pegged V7_Have_You_Seen_My_Stapler?

Maybe you could bite off some of his polyps while you are up there.

I don’t need to use a dictionary to talk to people like you do Shoe.

You need it to understand words the rest of us learned in first grade. You are using the term “shoe” wrong, not that you would know because you are too dumb to even scrape rust in the USN.

You really are reaching to explain your crazy Shoe.

Hey, he’s a spamming idiot, you are just an idiot.

I repeat, no one cares about the GOPe being namecalled as much as united states navy pencil pusher Shoe does

Awesome how you are willing to show disrespect to the country and the USN to take a swipe at me. It shows that you really don’t care about the country and pushing trump confirms it.

You are technologically illiterate because you believe that Wikipedia can hijack your hardware by snapping their fingers and that you think that you have to retype comments to quote people here.

Where did I write either of those things you illiterate turd?

So your comments that not capitalizing words caused you physical pains were either exaggerated or lies?

I never wrote that. You are lying and you are so stupid that you actually believe your own BS.

Lying again Shoe. It causes you pain to see navy lower case except when navy is used for a color. Which of course was wrong too, but your ego can’t admit even that.

Troll boy is just interested in spreading the pain and doesn’t care if he has to insult the USA or the USN to do it.

Hilarious how you consistently write that I have said things and when challenged to prove it you consistently fail.
I never wrote “physical pain” and never wrote that he was successful in spreading the pain it by insulting the United States Navy as both of you have repeatedly done. All that does is show you to be a POS. Congratulations.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 4:49 AM

Jelly toast, that’s correct. Cruz’ efforts were automatically doomed to fail because the Democrats would never lose all the face required to help him. The “repeal” rigmarole was just playing politics and posturing. Basically you add riders and new legislation until you clean up the ACA to something better than where we were before the ACA. Good legislating beats grandstanding.

cimbri on November 27, 2015 at 10:30 AM

Romney blew it. People didn’t turn out for him. Look what it got us.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 4:22 AM

Which means you blew it by supporting him.

I think some of your arguments, not verbatim, went along the lines of, it does not matter who we put in office, so long as it is a Republican.

The people with an ounce of awareness argued that Romney would not go on the offensive against those who held his world views, Obama being one of those people.

Who were proven right?

I do not support Trump. If he is chosen, I will vote down ticket and write in someone else. But you of all people have no credibility to be telling people who they should support.

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 10:42 AM

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 10:42 AM

Romney blew it. People didn’t turn out for him. Look what it got us.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 4:22 AM

Which means you blew it by supporting him.

It’s all my fault. I wrecked the country. I kept Cletus in the doublewide because Romney was a RINO.

I think some of your arguments, not verbatim, went along the lines of, it does not matter who we put in office, so long as it is a Republican.

No, but compared to Barack Obama? I honestly don’t recall ever interacting with you.

The people with an ounce of awareness argued that Romney would not go on the offensive against those who held his world views, Obama being one of those people.

So Obama holds Romney’s world views? Come on.

The thing is, Romney is the one who made it through the primaries. Everyone else dropped out and endorsed him. At that point your choice was binary. We shouldn’t let it come to that with Trump.

Who were proven right?

I don’t recall anyone arguing that Obama and Romney share world views and that’s why Romney wouldn’t stand up to Obama.

I do not support Trump.

Good for you.

If he is chosen, I will vote down ticket and write in someone else.

Probably not the conservative choice but whatever. I can see that you are beyond persuasion which is fine because I’m beyond persuading.

But you of all people have no credibility to be telling people who they should support.

Said the guy who wrote that Romney and Obama had the same world view and won’t vote for Trump even if he’s the nominee.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 11:05 AM

Said the guy who wrote that Romney and Obama had the same world view and won’t vote for Trump even if he’s the nominee.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 11:05 AM

All the same advisers in their executive branches. They pretty much moved From Romney to Obama, because the two of them see eye to eye.
RomneyCare/Obamacare.
Immigration.
Minimum wage.

After the Election Romney allowed several Freudian slips happen that indicated that any of his conservative views during the primary were simply there to get the nomination.

You own Romney. You have no credibility on picking nominees.

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 11:10 AM

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 11:10 AM

So I just did a search on this site for you and apparently your first post for this username was on the 8 November 2015. If we interacted before that you are going to refresh my memory.

All the same advisers in their executive branches. They pretty much moved From Romney to Obama, because the two of them see eye to eye.

Yeah, no, that didn’t happen.

RomneyCare/Obamacare.
Immigration.
Minimum wage.

Romney vowed to repeal Obamacare, Romney had the most conservative immigration plan of any of the GOP candidates… You do realize Romney isn’t running this time around.

After the Election Romney allowed several Freudian slips….

Please.

You own Romney.

I’ll take him.

You have no credibility on picking nominees.

I am the primaries.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM

Just making sure that you get the credit you are due buddy.

Romney never really said he would repeal Obamacare. He stated he would get rid of the bad and keep the good. The bad items were how to pay for it. The good items were the individual mandate and minimum coverage, preexisting conditions which drives the cost to astronomical, I like Mandates. Mandates work. http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/man-who-likes-mandates_634000.html

On Immigration, after the election he came out in favor of a path to citizenship. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/15/mitt-romney-illegal-immigrants-should-have-path-ci/ What is it you say makes Trump so terrible? The fact that he does not believe what he proposes in the primary?

$10.10 minimum wage, just like the democrats. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/09/romney-on-minimum-wage-we-out-to-raise-it/

You argue that we cannot trust Trump because he lies about his positions. You just said you are willing to own Romney, another massive liar about his positions.

Anyways. you really got nothing in your arsenal. You are a hypocrite on who you support and who you do not. Like you said, Romney, lying like mad had the most conservative immigration policy and you loved you some Romney. Well, Trump, lying like mad has the most conservative immigration policy and you detest you some Trump.

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 12:13 PM

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 12:13 PM

Just making sure that you get the credit you are due buddy.

That’s good of you. So what’s your other user name? Seeing as you can write:

Funny, but I think you were Romney’s third or fourth most ardent supporter on hot air claiming him to be the most severest of conservative in 2012.

When your first post here was on November 8 2015…. Who were you posting under then?

Romney never really said he would repeal Obamacare.

Yes, he did.

If I were president, on Day One I would issue an executive order paving the way for Obamacare waivers to all 50 states. -Mitt Romney

http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romney-reaction-to-supreme-court-decision-i-will-repeal-obamacare-2012-6

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/romney-says-he-will-repeal-obamacare-if-elected/?_r=0

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/240710-a-promise-made-to-repeal-obamacare-with-reconciliation

So, NWConstitutionalist, you wouldn’t be a cowardly sockpuppetier, would you?

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 12:33 PM

On Immigration, after the election he came out in favor of a path to citizenship.

Romney had the most stringent position on immigration of any candidate with, perhaps the exception of Rick Santorum. It was realistic as it stressed self deportation rather than a deportation force that will round up 11 million people in a year or 18 months or even 2 and deport them. If you believe that is going to happen you are in fantasyland.

At the time Trump supported a pathway to citizenship for immigrants and called Mitt Romney’s deportation policy as “mean-spirited”.

The Republican Party will continue to lose presidential elections if it comes across as mean-spirited and unwelcoming toward people of color, Donald Trump tells Newsmax.

Whether intended or not, comments and policies of Mitt Romney and other Republican candidates during this election were seen by Hispanics and Asians as hostile to them, Trump says.

“Republicans didn’t have anything going for them with respect to Latinos and with respect to Asians,” the billionaire developer says.

“The Democrats didn’t have a policy for dealing with illegal immigrants, but what they did have going for them is they weren’t mean-spirited about it,” Trump says. “They didn’t know what the policy was, but what they were is they were kind.”

Romney’s solution of “self deportation” for illegal aliens made no sense and suggested that Republicans do not care about Hispanics in general, Trump says.

“He had a crazy policy of self deportation which was maniacal,” Trump says. “It sounded as bad as it was, and he lost all of the Latino vote,” Trump notes. “He lost the Asian vote. He lost everybody who is inspired to come into this country.”

The GOP has to develop a comprehensive policy “to take care of this incredible problem that we have with respect to immigration, with respect to people wanting to be wonderful productive citizens of this country,” Trump says.

Here, skip to 12 minutes here where Donald Trump says, during this election, that he wants a “pathway” (to citizenship for illegals).

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 12:55 PM

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 12:33 PM

You do know the difference between reading and posting. Do you not?

The funny thing is that after the election he was praising Obamacare. After the election.

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 12:58 PM

$10.10 minimum wage, just like the democrats. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/09/romney-on-minimum-wage-we-out-to-raise-it/

The democrats want 15, but I disagree with him. Yes, there are things that I disagreed with him about, I am not a slavish cultist. I just know he would have done a much better job than Obama. OK, “buddy”?

You argue that we cannot trust Trump because he lies about his positions. You just said you are willing to own Romney, another massive liar about his positions.

Seeing as he wasn’t elected we will never know for sure. Compare that to someone who was bankrupt 4 times to not pay bondholders what was promised and screw the taxpayer out of agreements to build housing and get tax abatements on top of the taxpayer subsidies he had already gotten…
Seriously, if you believe a word Trump says there is something wrong with you.

Anyways

Who else writes that?

You are a hypocrite on who you support and who you do not.

No, I am not. So how do you know so much about this site, how to use it and what was said on it 3 years ago when your first post was 2 weeks ago? Do tell.

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 1:03 PM

Constitutionalist on November 27, 2015 at 12:58 PM

You do know the difference between reading and posting. Do you not?

So you don’t have any other user names. Is that what you are saying?

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 1:04 PM

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 1:04 PM

Just pathetic…

Gaze

Athos on November 27, 2015 at 4:12 PM

AP didn’t tell you the provision that started the death spiral EXPIRES ON DECEMBER 11TH. So…..wishful thinking.

(and I’m silently giving the figner to the obnoxious Trump haters so sue me)

MaggiePoo on November 27, 2015 at 5:09 PM

Athos on November 27, 2015 at 4:12 PM

“A rogue does not laugh in the same way that an honest man does; a hypocrite does not shed the tears of a man of good faith. All falsehood is a mask; and however well made the mask may be, with a little attention we may always succeed in distinguishing it from the true face.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Three Musketeers

V7_Sport on November 27, 2015 at 6:06 PM

Rubio: big hero, mortal enemy of “white trash” like those that support Donald Trump; this mighty white-slaying hero must have done something great, right?

Is this feeble story an attempt to manufacture an accomplishment for Marco Rubio, who has no accomplishments except being a back-stabber?

David Blue on November 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM

Rubio does seem to deserve a “well done” here.

One question though, how did that bit of financial sanity ever get past the Surrender Monkeys, Boehner & McConnell?

[…]

RJL on November 26, 2015 at 3:54 PM

There’s nothing there to talk about. OCare funding will not be affected since there is no budget or debt cap in place. It’s all just more congressional kabuki theater.

Read about it here.

bofh on November 28, 2015 at 10:04 PM

The Conservative Treehouse outs this for the fraud that it is:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/11/28/gope-relentlessly-play-shell-game-with-obamacare-now-comes-lets-prop-up-rubio-version/

Right Mover on November 29, 2015 at 1:06 PM

the idea that trump is a conservative is a joke that only idiots like you believe.

V7_Sport on November 26, 2015 at 12:15 AM

So working with Jeff Sessions on an immigration plan is a “joke that only idiots like you believe”.

Thank you for clarifying that you stand with the GOPe and Hillary on immigration. It explains most of your posts.

Have a great day!

dominigan on November 30, 2015 at 10:41 AM