Important update from PennLive: Sorry that we made ourselves victims, or something

posted at 10:01 am on June 27, 2015 by Ed Morrissey

Yesterday, the editorial board of PennLive/Patriot-News declared that the Supreme Court had closed off discussion of same-sex marriage permanently on their pages. Announcing that “these unions are now the law of the land” after the Obergefell decision, any written opposition to SSM would be morally equivalent to “publish[ing] those that are racist, sexist or anti-Semitic.” After insulting a large portion of his readership by calling them bigots, editor John Micek attempts to hit reverse this morning with an apology.

Only first, Micek wants to say how truly wonderful he felt about Obergefell by describing its impact on one of his colleagues:

A smile lit up her face and there were tears in her eyes. Up until about 10 a.m. on Friday, my gay colleague sat on pins and needles, waiting to see if nine lawyers were about to throw the life and her and her partner into absolute upheaval.

We embraced and I offered my congratulations. And then I sat down and thought about what had just happened and what it meant to my other gay and lesbian colleagues who were rightfully celebrating Friday’s ruling as a victory for both love and equal protection under the law.

However, PennLive readers weren’t as enthusiastic, so Micek wanted to express “in the strongest possible terms” what kind of feedback and discussion he was willing to tolerate from the “racist, sexist, or anti-Semitic” readership Micek apparently believes he attracted. Oddly, Micek was surprised by the “unintended consequences” of assuming those who disagreed with him are nothing more than hateful bigots. One of those “unintended consequences” was being called a “fascist,” an accusation that seemingly surprised Micek, even though he was telling everyone that only his opinion would be tolerated in his newspaper.

After getting deluged with criticism, Micek decided to rethink his approach — but not before making himself the victim for a little while longer. Micek offers three points, and only the last even approaches an apology:

First: No one at PennLive and The Patriot-News is an opponent of the First Amendment. It’s a right that’s foundational to us as a people. And it’s a right for which many brave and noble men and women have given their lives. And I would never trample on that legacy or dishonor their sacrifice by limiting our readers’ right to express themselves in a civil way.

This is a dodge. The First Amendment wasn’t at issue with PennLive’s editorial (although it is in Obergefell), as the right to free speech does not include the right to publication. The issue was PennLive’s editorial practice and its contempt for dissent in any form, and its insult to people who oppose the Supreme Court’s ruling and its establishment of SSM by judicial fiat. The fact that this position was informed by an emotional moment in the newsroom makes PennLive appear even more puerile and shallow than Micek’s original declaration managed.

Next up, Micek apologizes for being a big victim of his meanie readers:

Second: And I cannot stress this one enough — that’s in a civil way. More than once yesterday I was referred to as “f****t-lover,” among other slurs. And that’s the point that I was trying to make with our statement: We will not publish such slurs any more than we would publish racist, sexist or anti-Semitic speech. There are ways to intelligently discuss an issue. The use of playground insults is not among them. And they are not welcome at PennLive/The Patriot-News.

Well, duh. No one at any newspaper publishes those kind of letters in the first place, unless they want to make the point that their readers are idiots. Micek acts as if he’s the first person in media to ever be called a bad name. Perhaps the Boss Emeritus can loan Micek one of her balls, and then they’d each have one. Let’s recall, though, what Micek wrote in the original editorial:

As a result of Friday’s ruling, PennLive/The Patriot-News will very strictly limit op-Eds [sic] and letters to the editor in opposition to same-sex marriage.

These unions are now the law of the land. And we will not publish such letters and op-Eds [sic] any more than we would publish those that are racist, sexist or anti-Semitic.

We have some major-league goalpost-moving from Micek in his second point. The original editorial didn’t state that PennLive was banning slurs, but any opposition to same-sex marriage. It was the opposition that Micek considered on par with “racist, sexist or anti-Semitic speech,” not just the slurs. Micek is misrepresenting the position he had taken less than 24 hours earlier in order to falsely position himself as a victim. He’s basically rewriting history.

Finally, Micek gets around to the point of his essay, which is to back away from his previous position:

Third: I fully recognize that there are people of good conscience and of goodwill who will disagree with Friday’s high court ruling. They include philosophers and men and women of the cloth whose objections come from deeply held religious and moral convictions that are protected by the very same First Amendment that allowed me to stick my foot in my mouth on Friday. They are, and always will be, welcome in these pages, along with all others of goodwill, who seek to have an intelligent and reasoned debate on the issues of the day.

Again, this wasn’t a First Amendment issue, but at least Micek finally allows that he erred in some fashion, rather than being victimized first by the “law of unintended consequences,” and then by readers. It was quite clear to anyone who reads English that “people of conscience and goodwill who disagree with Friday’s high court ruling” were not only not going to be considered for columns or letters entries, but that Micek and PennLive considered them on par with — I quote again — “racist, sexist, or anti-Semitic” people. These were the exact same people Micek was smearing less than 24 hours earlier, but suddenly they’re worthy of engagement. I wonder why.

So … where was the apology? It comes at the end, via Washington DC and every other politician who’s ever had to grudgingly retreat from their own stupidity:

But for those of you who were offended by what was intended as a very genuine attempt at fostering a civil discussion, I apologize.

Ah yes, the standard “sorry if you were offended by my brilliance” non-apology. How exactly is telling people to shut up “fostering a civil discussion”? How does offering a blanket smear of all critics of Obergefell as bigots qualify as “a very genuine attempt” at any kind of discussion? For that matter, how did Micek envision a “discussion” coming from his all-out ban on any opposing view in his newspaper? At the end of all this, Micek then offers an apology — not for his actions, not for all of his mean-spirited and sanctimonious posing, but because we turned out to be not quite as stupid as Micek believed we were.

Maybe Micek should stick with Play-Doh.

Update: Made two minor grammatical corrections.


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Nice analysis.

EastofEden on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

*stares*

Well, in terms of non-sequiturs this was pretty impressive.

Now try actually addressing something I said (hint- I said nothing about western economist views of the USSR).

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:06 PM

All of the USSR’s ACADEMIC research said their economy was fine too. Just like their health care system.

Oh wait you’ll say that all academic research in the USSR was government research… In fact strangely the only people you trust to give you data are those telling you what you want to hear.

Skywise on June 27, 2015 at 1:12 PM

Don’t confuse Clive with facts.

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

Democracy now wishes to distance itself from Christianity yet retain all the blessings of peace, prosperity and human dignity.

Not going to happen.

clandestine on June 27, 2015 at 1:41 PM

Uh, already happened.

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

Every time I read a post by Tlaloc, which I admit is seldom, as I try to imagine his speaking voice I invariably hear Pee-wee Herman’s voice.

“I know you are, but what am I?” -Pee-wee Herman

thatsafactjack on June 27, 2015 at 1:44 PM

And Pee Wee’s favorite holiday is..Palm Sunday.

O.K, I have to go work on my Mustang sitting in the garage,

Dammit, if only I had an Orange 69 Charger with a Confederate
Flag on the Roof!

ToddPA on June 27, 2015 at 1:58 PM

So a black guy can be a white supremacist?

I look forward to your answer.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM

Of course they can. Not many do for obvious reasons.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:54 PM

O_o

o_O

Rogerb, you are missing out on some serious nuggets here.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:59 PM

It’s been fun watching him twist after the self-righteous “Go hang out at Stormfront!” comment.

Now he’s stuck desperately trying to rationalize whether a black man can be a white supremacist.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:47 PM

Twist?

I answered your post as soon as I got to it. I know you think it was some cunning trap but…it wasn’t.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:59 PM

The most recent changes (plural) that are the points of contention didn’t come by way of the Constitutional, “Democratic Republic” process. The U.S. Constitution, in it’s “original intent, as written” form, will always be “en vogue” with the political conservatives.

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 12:53 PM

.
Funny, I thought the SCOTUS was in the constitution, guess I better go check.

Huh.

Maybe you better check Article 3 again. That stuff you’ve been b*tching about is fully authorized.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:15 PM

.
“Judicial decrees” that defy the “original intent” of the framers/Founding Fathers don’t count as fulfilling the Constitutional duty of the SCOTUS.
.
The “original intent” of all of those “dead guys” is worth going to bloodshed over.

That makes their “original intent” relevant.

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 2:00 PM

ou don’t understand how being a part of a criminal organization like a gang can be a way to make money?

Seriously?

Do you think maffia types are that way because of tradition? You literally cannot be as dumb as you are pretending to be.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:42 PM

You have been watching too much Bugsy Malone.

There’s a difference between organized crime which actively works against the system (or sometimes inside the system) and street gangs.

Organized crime syndicates don’t wantonly try to kill each other because (and get your fainting couch ready coz you’re gonna swoon) it’s not profitable. You make alliances to start and maintain underground businesses – businesses which need – PEOPLE and trusting customers.

Street Gangs, like the kind you see in urban centers are concerned with turf wars and territory. That’s why their biggest claim to fame is tagging. They don’t do it “for the money” to increase their position in life or to even help their community!

Millionaire Rappers don’t kill each other to increase their sales – They do it for prestige.

Skywise on June 27, 2015 at 2:01 PM

O_o

o_O

Rogerb, you are missing out on some serious nuggets here.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:59 PM

You really should know this stuff

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:02 PM

ToddPA on June 27, 2015 at 1:58 PM

Yep, I’m going to take the runts out for some wakeboarding now, the lake is beautiful today.

Sadly, my speedboat is a white Mastercraft.

Yes that’s right, it’s white and contains the word “Master” which means I chose the boat because I’ve embraced the southern societal yearnings to reintroduce slavery.

In my defense though the pontoon is a black Sun Tracker.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 2:04 PM

“Judicial decrees” that defy the “original intent” of the framers/Founding Fathers don’t count as fulfilling the Constitutional duty of the SCOTUS.
.
The “original intent” of all of those “dead guys” is worth going to bloodshed over.

That makes their “original intent” relevant.

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 2:00 PM

No. There is nothing in the constitution that says “this document must be interpreted according to the views of the writers.” The views of the founding fathers only have legal weight to the extent that they were written unambiguously and directly into the constitution, bill of rights, or later laws.

The federalist papers, for instance, have no bearing at all, except as historical artifacts.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:04 PM

Problem is the right always thinks this is accomplished by giving money to billionaires.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:20 PM

What does the Left gain by giving their money to billionaires like George Soros, who has been a part-owner of Halliburton since 2006?

And how come you have absolutely no problem with Democrat billionaires outstripping their GOP counterparts in fundraising in 2014?

In fact…

…if you factor in all the indirect benefits the Democrat Party gets from the non-profit sector, left-wing activism, public and private sector unions, Wall Street banks, universities, and superfund contributors, it has been estimated that the Republican Party is outspent in politics by a factor of 7-to-1.

Never lose your special kind of Stupid.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 2:04 PM

Presumably you are saying that the military will be on your side when you start murdering americans.

Okay, but if that’s the case you still don’t need handguns now do you?

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:48 PM

It’s Americans, and you must be 5.

Toodles

Schadenfreude on June 27, 2015 at 2:06 PM

Wow! I come here to HA (lurking mostly) for the pithy and thoughtful comment give and take and I find Tlaloc’s blog. I can ignore him, why can’t the rest of you?

DemetriusPhalerum on June 27, 2015 at 2:06 PM

I win either way.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:30 PM

H+

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 2:06 PM

I’d invite tlaloc to tag along but I have a feeling he would do nothing but biotch and complain about the white cooler located aft, the U.S. flag motif of the wakeboards, the Gadsden flag flying from the mast, and of course the uber-racist Bob Marley booming from the speakers.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 2:07 PM

Have a great day, brothers, Long Live Dixie.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 2:08 PM

There’s a difference between organized crime which actively works against the system (or sometimes inside the system) and street gangs.

Organized crime syndicates don’t wantonly try to kill each other because (and get your fainting couch ready coz you’re gonna swoon) it’s not profitable. You make alliances to start and maintain underground businesses – businesses which need – PEOPLE and trusting customers.

Street Gangs, like the kind you see in urban centers are concerned with turf wars and territory. That’s why their biggest claim to fame is tagging. They don’t do it “for the money” to increase their position in life or to even help their community!

Millionaire Rappers don’t kill each other to increase their sales – They do it for prestige.

Skywise on June 27, 2015 at 2:01 PM

The differences between street gangs and more organized groups lke the maffia and yakuza is one of degree not distinction. Street gangs are lower order and they have to fight more for territory. The set up cost for a street gang is minimal so new ones are always popping up and disappearing.

But essentially they exist to make money from crime, same as the big boys. Because there is so much chaos and churn in their particular market niche they have to be very aggressive in protecting territory. If you really think tagging is the gangs big claim to fame you’re an idiot. Gangs sell drugs, run guns and black market goods, they work in prostitution and human smuggling. The tagging is just about territory. It’s fight over market share where market share is measure in geographic terms.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:09 PM

PennLive = longstanding liberal fascist rag.

petefrt on June 27, 2015 at 2:12 PM

You really should know this stuff

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:02 PM

Golly… this almost sounds like we’ve been sold a simpleton and, dare I say reinterpreted view of history?

The American Civil War, Blacks Who Fought for the South

Black Confederate military units, both as freemen and slaves, fought federal troops. Louisiana free blacks gave their reason for fighting in a letter written to New Orleans’ Daily Delta: “The free colored population love their home, their property, their own slaves and recognize no other country than Louisiana, and are ready to shed their blood for her defense. They have no sympathy for Abolitionism; no love for the North, but they have plenty for Louisiana. They will fight for her in 1861 as they fought in 1814-15.” As to bravery, one black scolded the commanding general of the state militia, saying, “Pardon me, general, but the only cowardly blood we have got in our veins is the white blood.

That last line doesn’t sound like he believes in White Supremacy to me…

I find this also interesting…

Many knew Lincoln had little love for enslaved blacks and didn’t wage war against the South for their benefit. Lincoln made that plain, saying, “I will say, then, that I am not, nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” The very words of his 1863 Emancipation Proclamation revealed his deceit and cunning; it freed those slaves held “within any State or designated part of a State the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States.” It didn’t apply to slaves in West Virginia and areas and states not in rebellion. Like Gen. Ulysses Grant’s slaves, they had to wait for the 13th Amendment, Grant explained why he didn’t free his slaves earlier, saying, “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”

#ACADEMIAwins

Skywise on June 27, 2015 at 2:12 PM

clandestine on June 27, 2015 at 1:41 PM

.
Uh, already happened.

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

.
No

How Israel was originally established, was without a “King”, or ‘line-of-royalty.’

Israel rebelled against God, and were on the brink of “voting” their own king, when God told Samuel to go to a particular young man (Saul of Kish), and “annoint” him as king.

That was Old Testament Judaism, and not New Testament Christianity.

The British Crown had usurped the practice of Christianity in England, and decreed that any practice of Christianity apart from the ‘Church Of England’ to be a felony crime.
.
The original Colonists wanted to recognize and worship the Christian God in ways contrary to the British Crown, and they invoked recognition of God within the key, opening lines of the Declaration Of Independence.

Without “recognition of God”, they couldn’t justify their revolt against, and separation from the British Crown.

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 2:13 PM

Uh, already happened.

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

hasn’t even started yet. The weakness of democracy is that democracy by itself cannot restrain the most destructive instincts of man. Only Christianity can restrain man’s innate tendency to self-destruction. Democracy, absent Christianity, permits all man’s worst instincts to eventually become codified into law because ‘the majority wish it so…’ The majority of men by themselves have all the unrestrained venality and greed and dishonesty of the single unguided undisciplined individual who pursues only his appetites as the greatest good.

A nation built on only the satisfaction of the appetites cannot long endure.

clandestine on June 27, 2015 at 2:13 PM

You really should know this stuff

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:02 PM

That’s pretty funny stuff, linking to a “history site” run by a bunch of Democrat Academics. Oh, and they are also soliciting donations there via PayPal! What a country!

H+

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 2:13 PM

But if I am so easily able to maneuver you into that losing position (and look around yourself, you are losing) are you really as free as you thought?

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:52 PM

You truly are delusional.

Now you bore me.

Toodles

Schadenfreude on June 27, 2015 at 2:16 PM

So a black guy can be a white supremacist?

I look forward to your answer.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM

Of course they can. Not many do for obvious reasons.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:54 PM

Ladies and Gents, this is “winning”.

It’s unseemly, frankly.
Tlaloc on April 24, 2015 at 4:20 PM

Schadenfreude on June 27, 2015 at 2:17 PM

That’s what made it comical.

thatsafactjack on June 27, 2015 at 1:56 PM

Yes, but at least it was comical :)

It’s been a ‘fun’ thread. I forget what it’s about now :)

Enjoy the day
J.

Schadenfreude on June 27, 2015 at 2:19 PM

pithy and thoughtful comment give and take and I find Tlaloc’s blog. I can ignore him, why can’t the rest of you?

DemetriusPhalerum on June 27, 2015 at 2:06 PM

+1 absolute waste of time

dorkintheroad on June 27, 2015 at 2:19 PM

But for those of you who were offended by what was intended as a very genuine attempt at fostering ending a civil discussion, I apologize.

Fixed it.

Gwillie on June 27, 2015 at 2:19 PM

“I know you are, but what am I?” -Pee-wee Herman

thatsafactjack on June 27, 2015 at 1:44 PM

.
LOL

ExpressoBold on June 27, 2015 at 2:24 PM

What I said is that their economy would have collapsed without reagan goading them into military brinksmanship.

Oddly the same people who claim confidently that communism can never work then turned around and started screaming that the USSR would have lasted a thousand years but for Reagan (hey if you can badly twist my views I can slightly exaggerate yours).

SO which is it: is communism centrally flawed or does reagan get credit for taking them down. It can’t be both.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:10 PM

Which means absolutely nothing. A child that now, hindsight being 20-20. The fact is all the ACADEMICS said that the Soviet Union was inviolate. Only Reagan had the balls to face them off.

itsspideyman on June 27, 2015 at 2:28 PM

“Judicial decrees” that defy the “original intent” of the framers/Founding Fathers don’t count as fulfilling the Constitutional duty of the SCOTUS.
.
The “original intent” of all of those “dead guys” is worth going to bloodshed over.

That makes their “original intent” relevant.

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 2:00 PM

.
No. There is nothing in the constitution that says “this document must be interpreted according to the views of the writers.” The views of the founding fathers only have legal weight to the extent that they were written unambiguously and directly into the constitution, bill of rights, or later laws.

The federalist papers, for instance, have no bearing at all, except as historical artifacts.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:04 PM

.
I believe this comment proves the futility of any open debate on this matter.

I believe it proves that “deadly strife” or surrender are the only options open and available to us.
.
Anyone else?

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 2:30 PM

SO which is it: is communism centrally flawed or does reagan get credit for taking them down. It can’t be both.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:10 PM

It’s both.

The Soviet Union could have continued with the help of ACADEMICS pointing to the need for the United States to enter into some form of agreement.

Following the ACADEMICS, we would have entered into trade agreements, all to the favor of the Soviet Union, which would have kept their creaky carcass going.

Instead, Reagan pushed and the USSR fell, winning the Cold War.

itsspideyman on June 27, 2015 at 2:31 PM

I’m with you, L2G. Most have already chosen sides. As it has been, so it always shall be. Who will we meet on the other side? (in this world, of course)

DemetriusPhalerum on June 27, 2015 at 2:34 PM

No. There is nothing in the constitution that says “this document must be interpreted according to the views of the writers.” The views of the founding fathers only have legal weight to the extent that they were written unambiguously and directly into the constitution, bill of rights, or later laws.

The federalist papers, for instance, have no bearing at all, except as historical artifacts.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:04 PM

.
I believe this comment proves the futility of any open debate on this matter.

I believe it proves that “deadly strife” or surrender are the only options open and available to us.
.
Anyone else?

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 2:30 PM

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
– Thomas Jefferson

I’m down with deadly strife. How bout you?

itsspideyman on June 27, 2015 at 2:35 PM

So a black guy can be a white supremacist? I look forward to your answer.
Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM

The Black Clansman
Even wrote a book

A black ex-cop has written a book about how he infiltrated a branch of the Ku Klux Klan in Colorado in the 1970s.

Ron Stallworth was an investigator for the Colorado Springs Police Department in 1979 when he answered a newspaper ad placed by a new KKK group looking for local members.

and this just for fun

Gwillie on June 27, 2015 at 2:38 PM

Instead, Reagan pushed and the USSR fell, winning the Cold War.

itsspideyman on June 27, 2015 at 2:31 PM

HALP! I Fell down and I can’t get up!

itsspideyman on June 27, 2015 at 2:39 PM

having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition. In fact, that’s what SCOTUS did in 2000!

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

F-IXED.

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 2:39 PM

Shooo-wee! I love it when Ed is on fire!

chuckh on June 27, 2015 at 2:39 PM

Click here to view the execrable Micek:
http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/photo/img-0044jpg-61a18b694c8a1274.jpg

wow.

chuckh on June 27, 2015 at 2:41 PM

So a black guy can be a white supremacist? I look forward to your answer.

Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM

The Black Clansman
Even wrote a book

A black ex-cop has written a book about how he infiltrated a branch of the Ku Klux Klan in Colorado in the 1970s.

Ron Stallworth was an investigator for the Colorado Springs Police Department in 1979 when he answered a newspaper ad placed by a new KKK group looking for local members.

and this just for fun

Gwillie on June 27, 2015 at 2:38 PM

Here’s another one:

Leo Felton.

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 2:41 PM

The Black Clansman

Sa-weet! It’s got William Shatner in it playing a racist, I gotta find that someday!

Even wrote a book
Gwillie on June 27, 2015 at 2:38 PM

1> He sent a white cop in for all his in person appearances (Thought he did an Eddie Murphy otherwise)
2> That happened in the late 70s but the movie was filmed in the mid 60s

Skywise on June 27, 2015 at 3:02 PM

pithy and thoughtful comment give and take and I find Tlaloc’s blog. I can ignore him, why can’t the rest of you?

DemetriusPhalerum on June 27, 2015 at 2:06 PM

Because in the end he’s plain funny. He’s a product of some demented education and is a mouthpiece for every cliché’ ever written.

It’s funny, Tlaloc is a character in the Dune Extended Series, a philosopher who guided the Titans to 10,000 years of dictatorship over humanity. A “reformer” who believed everyone was a bunch of hedonists, he was initially dismissed as a nut job until Agamemnon, a leader bent on power, started following him. His death is comical, and it made the other Titans transfer their minds into mechanical bodies, therefore eliminating their souls. His relevance never went passed his followers and his importance died when they did.

Anyway, I get a chuckle every time I see his name.

itsspideyman on June 27, 2015 at 3:05 PM

O_o
 
o_O
 
Rogerb, you are missing out on some serious nuggets here.
 
Bishop on June 27, 2015 at 1:59 PM

 
You really should know this stuff

rogerb on June 27, 2015 at 3:07 PM

Problem for you is society does see it, and judges you accordingly.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:04 PM</blockquote

Not society, just the fascist mob minority.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:33 PM

Well, in terms of non-sequiturs this was pretty impressive.

Now try actually addressing something I said (hint- I said nothing about western economist views of the USSR).

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:06 PM

I posted a link to the definition of non sequitur. You may want to review that.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:34 PM

Oddly the same people who claim confidently that communism can never work then turned around and started screaming that the USSR would have lasted a thousand years but for Reagan (hey if you can badly twist my views I can slightly exaggerate yours).

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:10 PM

Could you post the exact quote from whence this screaming purportedly comes?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:35 PM

So how many americans are you planning to murder because gays can get married? How many do you pan to kill because poor people can get health insurance (well in blue states at least)?

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:15 PM

How many socialists are there?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:36 PM

I accept it in the sense of it is the correct evaluation of the situation. I don’t accept it in the sense that this is how things should be or must be. The solution of course is to help them not be trapped in poverty.

Problem is the right always thinks this is accomplished by giving money to billionaires. I can’t figure out why since that plan has failed for over 40 years now…

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:20 PM

Probably because that plan hasn’t been in place for over 40 years.

Rather, the plan that has been in place for over 40 years, is the War on Poverty.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:39 PM

The difference is we’re trying to fix our society while you are actively trying to keep yours broken.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:22 PM

The city of Detroit begs to differ.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:39 PM

If you really want to be armed against a government tyranny learn to hack. That’s a vastly greater force multiplier in the modern world than any number of small arms.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:26 PM

What should we be hacking?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:41 PM

See but here’s the clever bit, I win either way. Either you listen to me and manage to crawl out of your echo chamber in which case the electorate becomes just that bit more rational, OR you refuse to listen to reason even doubling down on your idiocy making you that much less effective.

A big part of winning is leaving the opponent no path to victory.

BTW, mate in 1.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:30 PM

Yet another echo chamber reference.

Hilarious!

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:42 PM

What does it matter? You’ve voluntarily embraced white supremacy. ANd you did just because the left annoyed you.

That’s really callow, I gotta say. I mean at least the avowed racists actively believe in their evil. You’re just to pathetic to deal with changing times…

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:32 PM

Could you describe for us what it’s like to only be able to see the world through the prism of racial illusions?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:43 PM

Okay, so you don’t trust governments,
and you don’t trust academics,
but you implicitly trust the rightwing sources that have been caught lying thousands of times.

Awesome. It must be so fun to be you and get to be surprised by reality every day!

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM

Could you cite specific examples where right wing sources have been caught lying?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:44 PM

Which would matter if we were talking about USSR academic research.

But we weren’t.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:36 PM

Correct.

Modern academic drivel is plagiarized Soviet propaganda.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:45 PM

It’s not about thinking it will work. It is about looking at the evidence which shows it works the best of the current systems.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:37 PM

Can you point us to that specific evidence?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:46 PM

Man, today has been a bonanza of getting conservatives to say nice things about communism and socialism.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:39 PM

Why does this please you?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:46 PM

Pssst. You’re the one embracing the south. Try to keep at least your position straight…

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:46 PM

Pssst. So did Obama, and Hillary, and ever other Southern Democrat.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:49 PM

Presumably you are saying that the military will be on your side when you start murdering americans.

Okay, but if that’s the case you still don’t need handguns now do you?

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:48 PM

I’m guessing the commanders that President Obama purged could likely be enlisted.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:51 PM

Yes governments can slaughter their citizens the part you get so very wrong is thinking a glock somehow stops that. No amount of small arms will protect you against even paramilitary police forces, much less (much much less) the actual military.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:51 PM

Hitler wholeheartedly agrees.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:52 PM

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

The ancient Egyptians were Christian?

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 3:53 PM

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

(First of all, we live in a Republic, not a democracy.)

You have it backwards. Christians believe yes, that God ordains government, for our good, based on Romans 13. God didn’t want the Israelites to have a king – he was reluctant to answer Samuel’s plea. He knew it would be a hardship. Sometimes it’s a trial, and certainly the disciples who followed Jesus knew they would be punished because they always obeyed God first – and they were most certainly all put to death.

Secondly, the “black-robed regiment” i.e. the Presbyterian ministers, were throwing Isaac Watts hymnals at the British. When the “divine right of kings” got underway with James 1, the great Christian stampede had already begun. This particular king wanted to “harry them out of the land.” He also created his own Bible, because he disliked the anti-king footnotes in the Geneva Bible carried by such as the Pilgrims. The Reformed Christians believed that the king needed to be *just,* and that injustice needed to be tempered by the law, therefore they felt justified in fighting the likes of Charles I and George III.

Lex, Rex published in 1644 attacked kingly absolutism, stating that the law is king.

LibertyJane on June 27, 2015 at 4:10 PM

Oddly the same people who claim confidently that communism can never work then turned around and started screaming that the USSR would have lasted Killed a thousand years Millions more but for Reagan (hey if you can badly twist my views I can slightly exaggerate yours).

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:10 PM

Corrected for accuracy

Gwillie on June 27, 2015 at 4:27 PM

Great read (and passion), Ed!

ShainS on June 27, 2015 at 4:53 PM

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

(First of all, we live in a Republic, not a democracy.)

LibertyJane on June 27, 2015 at 4:10 PM

Don’t confuse the “historian” with Facts. On Tlaloc’s 9-ringed world, the word “democracy” has multiple meanings, just like the word “deposed” does. And on that same planet, Israel can “sink” a US ship without actually sinking it.

NASA should send some probes to that planet. Sounds like a fascinating place!

Del Dolemonte on June 27, 2015 at 5:58 PM

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

Oh Good Lord. May He please help you.

Cindy Munford on June 27, 2015 at 6:42 PM

No. There is nothing in the constitution that says “this document must be interpreted according to the views of the writers.”

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 2:04 PM

Nonintelligent, you are the dumbest, most ignorant, and funniest troll in the history of trolls. Keep up the good work.

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM

Oh Good Lord. May He please help you.

Cindy Munford on June 27, 2015 at 6:42 PM

I assume He treats the mentally challenged kindly.

NotCoach on June 27, 2015 at 7:13 PM

Tlaloc’s knowledge of history has all the depth of a Jack Chick tract.

Written in crayon.

StubbleSpark on June 27, 2015 at 7:47 PM

Hey! Who’s gonna’ clean up this mess y’all left behind? There are bits & pieces of ‘Lumpy’

Tlaloc

splattered all over this joint!

tanked59 on June 27, 2015 at 7:51 PM

The most amusing part of today’s episode of Tantrums from Tlaloc, is how he scolds others for “relying on right wing sources” while simultaneously accusing others of living in an echo chamber.

The lack of self awareness is remarkable even for this drone.

Star Bird on June 27, 2015 at 7:58 PM

NotCoach on June 27, 2015 at 7:13 PM

That’s true.

Cindy Munford on June 27, 2015 at 9:45 PM

Our democracy is a direct result of the break away from Christian traditions. For one thing having kings appointed by god is a christian tradition.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM
.

Oh Good Lord. May He please help you.

Cindy Munford on June 27, 2015 at 6:42 PM

.
I assume He treats the mentally challenged kindly.

NotCoach on June 27, 2015 at 7:13 PM
.

That’s true.

Cindy Munford on June 27, 2015 at 9:45 PM

.
On the other hand, if you reject any recognition of God, whatsoever….

. . . . . for he who comes to God must believe that He is (exists), and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

[Heb 11: – 2nd half of verse 6]

listens2glenn on June 27, 2015 at 10:40 PM

Pennlive and The Patriot News are rags. They employ second rate hacks. Their editors are the epitome of why journalism is a joke profession these days.

tyketto on June 27, 2015 at 11:10 PM

Hey Ed how about allowing for dissenting point of view on this blog? Never gonna happen. In fact 80% of what is written on this blog implies that liberals with a different point of view are craven idiots. 20% is ‘liberal x is a nice guy/gal but his ideas are stupid an dangerous to America.

For Ed or any members of the Conserva-bloga-sphere to call out PennLive is a joke.

Chicago Way on June 27, 2015 at 11:17 AM

Don’t blame Ed for the fact that most liberals are idiots. Blame political correctness and a culture that values feeling over facts.

As for 20% of liberals being “nice,” though, I think the number is a little higher than that. It just doesn’t seem like it because so many are really nasty. And I think that primarily comes from a culture that thinks conservatives are not just wrong, but evil.

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 28, 2015 at 12:11 AM

How exactly is telling people to shut up “fostering a civil discussion”?

And there you go losing the thread again. How exactly is not choosing to promote hatred telling them to shut up? You already acknowledged there is no right to be published yet here you turn around and argue from the position that there is.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 11:27 AM

Your mistake helpfully highlighted for you. Not that you’ll get it.

The editor and you both equate any voice of opposition as hatred, and the equivalent of racism, sexism, and antisemitism. I will say that it probably wouldn’t have mattered if they had published letters in opposition, if they treated them as dripping with hate. Like most publishers, they would have found a way to dismiss it as hate speech, or had someone write a response to the letter calling it hate speech.

But really, calling it “promoting hatred” as you do is just another way to try to put the topic beyond discussion. You and the editor both share the instinct of dismissing speech you disagree with as the product of hate.

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 28, 2015 at 12:21 AM

Shorter summation of the “apology”.

It’s terrible the way people called me a fascist for trying to foster a civilized discourse by telling one side of the discussion they shouldn’t be permitted to speak; and we would not listen to them or allow them to participate

Sorry guy; that’s a case of “not polite; but entirely accurate”.
When you act like a fascist, some people will call you a fascist.

Why is that surprising?
And why do you think whining about it while still maintaining what you did was a good thing is an “apology”?

There was no apology there; you claimed silencing part of a discussion was good, again. Demanded nobody call you fascist, for acting fascist. And whined about how you were now the victim somehow.

Get this guy a dictionary.
How can he work for a newspaper while not knowing what all these words mean?

gekkobear on June 28, 2015 at 12:31 AM

Good grief, they were never treated differently under the law. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both could marry someone of the opposite gender. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both could not marry someone of the same gender.

topdawg on June 27, 2015 at 10:16 AM

Bob can marry Ann
Sue can’t marry Ann purely because of her gender.

That’s black and white unequal treatment under the law.

Tlaloc on June 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM

Sue can’t marry Ann because you can’t join two members of the same sex.

The same thing that always happens when you try to join a socket to a socket. If you want to join a socket to something, you need a plug.

The law is basically irrelevant.

BTW, Ann can have Bob’s children, but Bob can’t have Ann’s children. Sue also can’t have Ann’s children, and Ann can’t have Sue’s children.

I guess the real world is just not living up to your standard of “equal treatment.”

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 28, 2015 at 1:37 AM

So I guess they’d consider Chief Justice Roberts dissent the moral equivalent of being “racist, sexist or anti-Semitic“.

BrunoMitchell on June 28, 2015 at 1:33 PM

Only the mentally incompetent gullible brainwashed bigoted use the oxymoron “homosex-” (a lunatic delusion (homo=same+sex=opposite) ably refuted by “The gay invention” at http://www.touchstonemag.com ) any more than asininely calling people “white” or “black” when all are scientifically melanin brown of varying shades. Truth has been overthrown and replaced with lies like in the old USSR we’re now at least as bad as. They’re only perverts or sodomites. This kind of depravity also destroyed France in the late 18th cengtury as our Founders will building this Christian nation Kennedy’s antiChristian bigotry just lawlessly and treasonously outlawed in Obergefall (German for fallen over !), but eventually the French got so tired of the evil they brought in Napoleon to execute the monsters as will happen here after a decade or so, for nature abhors a moral vacuum. I wonder what the name of the leader who executes Kennedy & co for the Constitution-trashing treason will be. Only fools fail to realize history repeats itself and overthrows/destroys any fool enough to stand in the way; Kennedy’s gasous Obergefall rhetoric won’t save the fool, God save him and us.

russedav on June 30, 2015 at 1:36 PM

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