A Confederate monument defaced

posted at 8:01 am on June 22, 2015 by Jazz Shaw

Yesterday, in the midst of all the church services and speeches and emotional turmoil welling up in Charleston, South Carolina, protesters defaced a statue in White Point Gardens. The iconic piece, dedicated to the Confederate soldiers from the state, was spray painted with various messages including the now seemingly ubiquitous “Black Lives Matter.” (Or that seems to be the intent, anyway. It actually says, “Black Lives Mater.”

A statue near The Battery memorializing Confederate defenders of the city was found vandalized Sunday with the message “Black lives matter.”

Another message, “This is the problem #racist,” also was spray-painted on “To the Confederate Defenders of Charleston — Fort Sumter.”

The monument was placed at the site by The United Daughters of the Confederacy.

The damage was reported to police dispatchers just after 12:30 p.m. The statue was covered up by residents who wrapped a large tarp around it about 1:30 p.m.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Statue

At this point, even knowing the howls of outrage which result from the simple act of asking a question these days, there is one thing I would like to find out from the vandals who did this: what exactly is it that you are protesting this week?

Trust me, I’ve seen all of the #BlackLivesMatter protests taking place across the country. I follow the news. In the majority of them the subject of discussion centers on deadly incidents between (usually white) police officers and (almost always black) suspects. And at least in purely philosophical terms, I get it. That’s not to say that I agree with you on the details, as we’ve wound up discussing here far too often in the past. I don’t agree that that “police in general” are racists and trying to eradicate the black community. But I understand that you do, and given the nature of the discussions which take place, I can at least wrap my head around why you are protesting and flying the #BlackLivesMatter banners.

But what’s going on in Charleston which sees you not only trotting out the same slogan, but defacing this monument? The issue at hand is Dylann Roof. I think, by this point, we’ve pretty much all agreed that he’s not only a hateful, murderous beast, but a seriously hard core racist as well. But as soon as the news broke last week the police were out there combing the neighborhood. They chased down every lead and one of those tips led to Roof’s arrest. He is now cooling his heels in jail and people all the way up to the governor are calling for him to receive the death penalty for these heinous crimes. We got the guy and did so in nearly record time.

So I ask you again… what exactly are you protesting?

Is there some indication that the police (who risked their lives to bring him back in shackles) or your elected government representatives aren’t taking this seriously? Have any of them given some indication that the lives of those nine black worshipers didn’t matter? At this point I’m getting the impression that you are claiming that Roof is a symptom of something deeper. Perhaps you are claiming that he’s only one member of some vast army of hate filled, white race warriors who are planning executions. But if it comes as any consolation to you, the best argument to soothe your concerns comes from Roof himself in his alleged manifesto. (Emphasis added)

“I have no choice. I am not in the position to, alone, go into the ghetto and fight. I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country,” he wrote. “We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.”

Much has been made of Roof’s hateful diatribes, and rightly so. But the section above seems to be conveniently overlooked in all of this analysis. Why did Roof go into that church and start shooting unarmed, innocent black people at a moment when they were at their most peaceful and defenseless? At least in part because he couldn’t find anyone else to join him in his race war. If there were active cells of racism terrorists (or whatever phrase we’re supposed to be using in this case… I can’t keep track of them all) waiting to leap into action all over the South, I doubt Roof would have had any trouble being accepted into their ranks.

This vandalism of a more than 80 year old statue honoring not slavery, but the lost lives of family members in a long ago war, makes no sense. (And I won’t drag out this column even further by bringing up the subject of how the Civil War was about much more than slavery yet again.) Every action which has taken place since the shooting has demonstrated that those black lives mattered very much to the police and the government. And now you’ve managed to take a moment when the entire population of the city – across all racial lines – was coming together and draw another line of division between you.


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Crowd Breaks Out in Song (video)

lineholder on June 22, 2015 at 10:03 AM

As if there were any need for proof that what’s behind the move to destroy the Confederate battle flag is irrational bigotry, not rational civil discourse, no matter the attempts of some misguided fools to disguise it as such, like vile Grant vs honorable Lee in their day.

russedav on June 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM

Agreed. The majority of the black slave owners were in La. and a couple had more than 100 slaves each for their sugar plantations.
I can barely remember last week but I remember that from my class back in 1970. He was a great teacher.

faol on June 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM

I find it to be one of the most interesting periods of American history. I had some good teachers on the subject as well, with some pretty bad ones too.

As for the various Confederate flags that are being hotly debated (e.g. the ANV flag in SC), when I look at comments by folks who designed or used them during the War and after, I find some disturbing things. For example William T. Thompson, designer of the so-called “Stainless Banner” or 2nd National Confederate Flag (which incorporated the CBF) is quoted as follows:

“As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause… we still think the battle flag on a pure white field would be more appropriate and handsome. Such a flag would be a suitable emblem of our young confederacy, and sustained by the brave hearts and strong arms of the south, it would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN’S FLAG… As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.”

See pp. 415-417 of “Our Flag: Origin and Progress of the Flag of the United States of America” by George Henry Preble (1872, Albany: Joel Munsell). URL – https://archive.org/details/ourflagoriginan00prebgoog

JohnAGJ on June 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM

Charleston Strong

At start of Unity Walk across Ravenel Bridge

lineholder on June 22, 2015 at 10:06 AM

Not my typing below, except for some editing for language and insults.

“The first Confederate flag was the “Stars and Bars” flag, which served as their official standard until 1863. It originally showed seven stars (and later 13) despite the fact that there were only 11 states in the Confederacy. These last two stars represented Kentucky and Missouri, states the South really wanted to secede but never got around to it.

However, this flag ended up looking too much like the American flag on the battlefield, and by 1862 Confederates were already grumbling for a new flag that was as “unlike as possible to the Stars and Stripes of the United States.” Their solution was a second design that incorporated the square “Battle Flag” of the Army of Northern Virginia onto a brilliant white sheet. After two more years, it was dumped due to the fact it looked like a surrender flag on the battlefield.

On March 4, 1865, with the war nearly over, the Confederate Congress decided “whatever” and adopted a third and final flag: “the Blood Stained Banner.” It was the same as the previous design except with a vertical red bar so that it would not be confused with the actual flags of surrender the Confederates would start flying one month later. This third flag “is still the official flag of the Confederacy.”

Now, we know what you’re thinking: What the heck is that “Confederate flag” everyone keeps fighting over today? It’s a dark blue variant of the Second Confederate Navy Jack. Although occasionally used on the battlefield as just one of countless regimental colors, this particular version enjoyed renewed popularity after its use by several “Rebel Companies” in the Pacific during WWII.”

HonestLib on June 22, 2015 at 10:09 AM

Good point JetBoy,,,,,,,,,,,,They were Americans too, many of use are sons and daughters of the old CSA and you would think that honoring our ancestors would be ok but wait and see what the left will do with Stone Mountain. I bet i gets blown up within 10 years or sooner.

garydt on June 22, 2015 at 10:10 AM

So “Black lives mater“?

SDarchitect on June 22, 2015 at 10:12 AM

Jefferson Davis quotes

Every one must understand that, whatever be the evil of slavery, it is not increased by its diffusion. Every one familiar with it knows that it is in proportion to its sparseness that it becomes less objectionable. Wherever there is an immediate connexion between the master and slave, whatever there is of harshness in the system is diminished.

I worked night and day for twelve years to prevent the war, but I could not. The North was mad and blind, would not let us govern ourselves, and so the war came.

It is not differences of opinion; it is geographical lines, rivers, and mountains which divide State from State, and make different nations of mankind.

If the Confederacy fails, there should be written on its tombstone: Died of a Theory.

All we ask is to be let alone.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jefferson_davis.html

Moron Labe on June 22, 2015 at 10:12 AM

Re: the vandalism. Simple. Some people are just shit-heads. Period.

GarandFan on June 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM

Abolishing slavery was only a mall part of that, and the main reason behind the Civil War was preserving the Union.

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 9:49 AM

You’re partly right, which is exactly why it should be flown.

Yes, abolishing slavery was a part of that. Preserving the Union was another part.

But why was a war fought “to preserve the Union” in the first place? To enshrine in law the idea that no citizen, nor any state, ever had the right to tell the federal government, “No, we’re not gonna.”

If you feel like the Stars and Bars should never be flown, the same reasoning applies to the Gadsden flag and the Gonzales flag. Nor should anyone ever use the phrase “Molon Labe.” There should be no memorials to the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto, there should be no monument at Thermopylae, and the Alamo should be torn down.

If you don’t think the same reasoning applies, please explain why not.

Have you really thought this through?

GrumpyOldFart on June 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM

More Jefferson Davis quotes

The withdrawal of a State from a league has no revolutionary or insurrectionary characteristic. The government of the State remains unchanged as to all internal affairs. It is only its external or confederate relations that are altered. To term this action of a Sovereign a ‘rebellion’ is a gross abuse of language.

Secession belongs to a different class of remedies. It is to be justified upon the basis that the States are Sovereign. There was a time when none denied it. I hope the time may come again, when a better comprehension of the theory of our Government, and the inalienable rights of the people of the States, will prevent any one from denying that each State is a Sovereign, and thus may reclaim the grants which it has made to any agent whomsoever.

I love the Union and the Constitution, but I would rather leave the Union with the Constitution than remain in the Union without it.

A government, to afford the needful protection and exercise proper care for the welfare of a people, must have homogeneity in its constituents. It is this necessity which has divided the human race into separate nations, and finally has defeated the grandest efforts which conquerors have made to give unlimited extent to their domain.

Nothing fills me with deeper sadness than to see a Southern man apologizing for the defense we made of our inheritance. Our cause was so just, so sacred, that had I known all that has come to pass, had I known what was to be inflicted upon me, all that my country was to suffer, all that our posterity was to endure, I would do it all over again.

http://www.americancivilwarstory.com/jefferson-davis-quotes.html

Moron Labe on June 22, 2015 at 10:17 AM

Moron Labe?

JohnAGJ on June 22, 2015 at 10:19 AM

Charleston Strong

Singing ‘Amazing Grace’ on the Ravenel bridge

lineholder on June 22, 2015 at 10:19 AM

And more from Jeff Davis:

Let the gentleman go to Revelation to learn the decree of God – let him go to the Bible. . . . I said that slavery was sanctioned in the Bible, authorized, regulated, and recognized from Genesis to Revelation. . . . Slavery existed then in the earliest ages, and among the chosen people of God; and in Revelation we are told that it shall exist till the end of time shall come. You find it in the Old and New Testaments – in the prophecies, psalms, and the epistles of Paul; you find it recognized – sanctioned everywhere.

If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree.

My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses…We recognize the negro as God and God’s Book and God’s Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him – our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude…You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be.

African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing.

http://www.azquotes.com/author/3716-Jefferson_Davis/tag/slavery

JohnAGJ on June 22, 2015 at 10:22 AM

Being a good old boy southern RedNeck by birth I only have one flag flying at the moment…..”Erin go Bragh”.

Fly whatever flag you like is my attitude.

HonestLib on June 22, 2015 at 10:25 AM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

Why is the statue there anyway? Those who win wars write the history NOT the losers…..

weedisgood on June 22, 2015 at 8:47 AM

Actually, history is history, regardless of whom writes it.

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 9:49 AM

While history is history, regardless of whom(?) writes it, weedie is correct (God, I feel stupid here) when he says that those who win wars get to write it. The inference is they get to change the facts as they deem fit.

HiJack on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

There would be a never-ending chain of people defacing it and destroying it, and there wouldn’t be a jury in the country who would convict.

HiJack on June 22, 2015 at 10:28 AM

Everdisco,,,,,,,,,, Is it only that “Black Lives Matter” when they are killed by whites? The protesters should go to South Chicago and pain “Black lives Matter” on every monument in South Chicago and other cities where black on black crime is rampant. I am sure if a black had killed those churchgoers there would be the same reaction in the news today as when the other black on black crimes occur. How many were killed in Chicago the last 3 or 4 days?

garydt on June 22, 2015 at 9:31 AM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

It’s a shame this issue, which is really about whether or not the people of southern states have a right to respect their antecedents, is forcing people who might otherwise have gotten along very well to fall out.

Intractability, this ‘all or nothing’ attitude being promulgated by the LEFT, and refusal to allow people to respect their antecedents, as Americans, is poisoning the well.

All those grand speeches made about this nation healing, and all of its people being one people, and equality, ring pretty hollow in the face of some of the comments on this thread today.

I stand instructed by the fact that this entire conversation began when one virulent racist killed nine innocent people in a church, and it launched an attack against everyone who has antecedents who were southern.

I believe that Mitt Romney, and other members of the political class, did this intentionally. After a year that included the riots at Ferguson, Baltimore, and those spin offs that occurred in major cities led by agitators, I think the political calculation that refocusing that hatred on the southern states would allow the election and specific candidates to move forward relatively unscathed, relieved of the necessity of addressing what occurred in Ferguson and Baltimore specifically and able to make sweeping generalizations about a war that ended 150 years ago. The living decedents of those who actually fought in that war merely collateral damage to the cause of swinging an election dialogue in a direction that was most convenient for certain candidates.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 10:30 AM

A post on HotAir defending the Confederate position on the civil war? Jazz Shaw is a racist…period.

Chudi on June 22, 2015 at 10:30 AM

There would be a never-ending chain of people defacing it and destroying it, and there wouldn’t be a jury in the country who would convict.

HiJack on June 22, 2015 at 10:28 AM

yup.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:30 AM

Living in the present rather than the past

Charleston Strong

MLK would be proud. The Dream is alive in Charleston. All people United and #Charleston Strong #Unity Walk

lineholder on June 22, 2015 at 10:33 AM

the party if racists and pedophiles…

In the wake of last week’s racially-motivated shooting at the Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, S.C., certain campaign donations to 2012 and 2016 GOP presidential candidates have come to light. That’s because the man who made the donations, white supremacist leader Earl Holt, was cited by Charleston shooter Dylann Roof in his alleged manifesto.

Holt, whose organization, the Council of Conservative Citizens (CofCC) was cited in Roof’s alleged online manifesto, has donated significant amounts to Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and 2012 GOP presidential nominee and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

According to The Guardian, the tally runs as follows:…..

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM

this issue, which is really about whether or not the people of southern states have a right to respect their antecedents,

you are right.

this issue is really about whether or not they should be proud or ashamed of their racist past.

exactly.

that is all it is about.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:37 AM

love how hotair is furiously trying to push this article down the frontpage now despite it being the most commented on this morning.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:39 AM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

Thanks for confirming that black lives only matter if there are some political points to be scored.

Just FYI..so you don’t look so idiotic. White on black murder has dropped while black on white has increased.

Over the past 30 years, black-on-white murders rose from 6 percent of all homicides to 8 percent, according to a study of more than half a million homicide reports assembled by Scripps Howard News Service from FBI and local police reports. White-on-black killings rose from 3 to 4 percent. All other racial combinations rose from 3 to 5 percent.

Black-on-white killings grew from 8,503 to 8,530, while white-on-black slayings dropped from 4,745 to 4,380. Homicides involving all other racial combinations, including Asians and American Indians, rose from 3,854 to 4,981.

These black-on-white or white-on-black killings are especially likely to occur in large urban states such as Florida, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York. Contrary to popular stereotypes, interracial killings are relatively rare in rural Deep South states, occurring at a rate well below the national average.

The Scripps study found that the greatest incidence of white-on-black killings, as a percentage of all homicides, are found in New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Nevada, Massachusetts, Florida, New Jersey, Delaware, California and Maryland.

But states like Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi and South Carolina all have white-on-black murder rates well below the national average, even though these states have large black populations.

HumpBot Salvation on June 22, 2015 at 10:41 AM

this issue is really about whether or not they should be proud or ashamed of their racist past.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:37 AM

^^^^ Example of someone who would allow the past to dictate both present and future

lineholder on June 22, 2015 at 10:42 AM

his issue is really about whether or not they should be proud or ashamed of their racist past.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:37 AM

You should be more concerned with the here and now, and facing your own hate filled present. I don’t envy you your future.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 10:46 AM

Moron Labe?

I spend a little time on Ace of Spades.

Moron Labe on June 22, 2015 at 10:48 AM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

No, it doesn’t, but shouldn’t all black lives matter? I think they do.

Ward Cleaver on June 22, 2015 at 10:50 AM

Lincoln on the negro question.

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races … A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas …

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/top-5-racist-quotes-by-abraham-lincoln.203268709/

Moron Labe on June 22, 2015 at 10:50 AM

Trolls

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 10:50 AM

Lincoln on the black question.

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races … A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas …

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/top-5-racist-quotes-by-abraham-lincoln.203268709/

Moron Labe on June 22, 2015 at 10:50 AM

poke the bear?

you weak kneed racists are not a bear.

you are rats.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 9:09 AM

Says the tough guy as he posts anonymously to people he doesn’t even know.

bbinfl on June 22, 2015 at 10:52 AM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

You’d like that wouldn’t you? You probably were out cheering as those people were jumping out of the towers weren’t you? 9/11 was probably the happiest day of your life.

bbinfl on June 22, 2015 at 10:54 AM

Long story short is The Roofer wanted a race war and the race-baiting vandals behind this (and race hustlers like Sharpton) are trying to give him one.

BKennedy

My guess . . .

They saw Charleston refusing to become Baltimore & they want it to become Baltimore, so they’re trying to provoke something.

In other words . . . . they’re allied with the shooter even though they’d tell you they despise him.

BD57 on June 22, 2015 at 10:54 AM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

So what you’re telling us klansman is that blacks are only able to be killed by people that you and your ilk approve of, correct? Aborting them by the thousands and shooting them up in the streets are ok but if the perp is white then, and only then, it is wrong? What a shock that the party of the klan thinks only some black lives matter.

bbinfl on June 22, 2015 at 10:57 AM

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:37 AM

You can’t harm the dead. You can’t harm those who are their decedents, particularly with your impotent jibes and taunts. You only diminish yourself. No one cares about an internet troll.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 10:58 AM

Sadly I will admit that there is racism in America.

Even worse I will admit that there are folks who want racism in America.

First group I can live with and try to be a positive influence in their lives when we cross paths. The second group is just a bunch of trolls and I just shake my head and live my life with as little interaction as possible.

HonestLib on June 22, 2015 at 11:02 AM

Black lives matter, but they matter less when they are resisting arrest.

dockywocky on June 22, 2015 at 11:04 AM

JohnAGJ on June 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM
I stand by my comment. Federalism and economics were the driving factors. The south had a serious manpower issue, slavery along with bonding put a band aid over the bleeding. You know, war is as much about geography as anything else. The south was in bad shape with the coming of mass mechanization and their inability to compete with the northern ports. If your entire economy was about collapse, it does not leave many options. It’s funny, I had almost the same discussion with a Royal Marine captain outside of Bassra. You’re right, our Civil War is a fascinating and incredible period of American history.

flackcatcher on June 22, 2015 at 11:10 AM

his issue is really about whether or not they should be proud or ashamed of their racist past.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:37 AM

You should be more concerned with the here and now, and facing your own hate filled present. I don’t envy you your future.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 10:46 AM

Everdiso’s refusal the understand the past makes for an unability to be properly concerned with either the ‘here and now’ or the ‘future.’

Ricard on June 22, 2015 at 11:14 AM

Okay, I don’t think it’s protesters. It’s low lifes who are paid by radical groups to come in and cause trouble. They were in Ferguson, and they are now in Charleston.

The media are criminals to ignore the truth.

PattyJ on June 22, 2015 at 11:35 AM

The people of Charleston are model Christians and model citizens, in the face and faith of so much tragedy and evil.

obama/Hillary, the trolls of HA and the defecaters are no different than the ISO who are currently bombing the artifacts in Palmyra. No Hell will be hot enough for all of you.

You feed on carrion, and may you all choke from it, and you feed on regress. YOU are the most illiberal tyrannical thugs on Earth.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 11:44 AM

conservatives have pulled out all the stops this year defending racists and pedophiles.

we know what conservatives are by the company they keep.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 8:32 AM

Fugged up everditz, provide link, or go to Hell.

Like your Putin/ISO claim, you never provide evidence, but run, with you tiny everything btw. your legs.

There’s no bigger weasel on HA than you are.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 11:48 AM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

I bet you found this to be Einsteinian clever.

Imagine if you had two functioning gray cells, you dummy in full view.

You’re unaware how stupid you are.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 11:51 AM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

A post on HotAir defending the Confederate position on the civil war? Jazz Shaw is a racist…period.

Chudi on June 22, 2015 at 10:30 AM

Look, the sun shines light on two big racists, two in one.

Miracles do happen, indeed.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 11:52 AM

I’m putting this here because it’s salient to this conversation and for the sake of clarity.

It’s not just a matter of overt discrimination. Societies don’t, overnight, completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.”

It’s this sentence in Obama’s podcast statements that bothers me.

It’s impossible to “…completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.” and it’s an open ended statement.

Everything?

This nation was founded during that time frame. He can’t possibly be suggesting that founding should be erased, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the establishment of a nation.

If he means slavery, the I’d agree wholeheartedly. Slavery is an abomination.The fact that it existed, for any people, ever in history is an abomination, but it did, and it does to this day.

If he means, specifically, slavery in this nation, again, I’d agree with him wholeheartedly. It was an abomination and I’d much prefer that no slave was every brought to this nation, and that no person in this nation was every forced into slavery of any description.

If he means, again, specifically, segregation, racism, and bigotry and bias, again, I’d agree wholeheartedly.

However, the past is reality. Wishing will not change it, and neither will attempting to erase it from our memories…or our “DNA” as Obama put it.

“Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it.”

― George Santayana, The Life of Reason: Five Volumes in One

Wouldn’t it be better, more instructive and useful, to remember the past clearly, objectively, allowing one another the space to grapple with it, learn from it, and move forward together as countrymen?

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 11:36 AM

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 11:53 AM

Wouldn’t it be better, more instructive and useful, to remember the past clearly, objectively, allowing one another the space to grapple with it, learn from it, and move forward together as countrymen?

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 11:36 AM

That would indicate that obama is a uniter.

obama is the national divider, like none other, in all of history.

When he leaves the land will be set back in race relations by about 35 years, unless the blacks and other minorities wake up and realize they’ve been fooled, by him and by Hillary.

His ancestors also

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 11:59 AM

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 11:59 AM

Sadly, true, my friend.

And that the strides made in race relations had come at such a steep price, and by the diligent labor of so many, only to see that effort set back pains me.

I read that article this morning and was impacted by the same irony you’ve expressed.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 12:04 PM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

There is, he was elected President.

TheMadHessian on June 22, 2015 at 12:08 PM

I read that article this morning and was impacted by the same irony you’ve expressed.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 12:04 PM

For all the thinking it proves what an incredible charlatan obama and the machine who brung/kept him is.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 12:12 PM

A post on HotAir defending the Confederate position on the civil war? Jazz Shaw is a racist…period.

Chudi!!!!! on June 22, 2015 at 10:30 AM

In 1987, when Hillary!’s husband was governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton signed Act 116 that stated “The blue star above the word “ARKANSAS” is to commemorate the Confederate States of America.”

Today Chudi!!!!!’s Democrat media is blaming the Charleston church shooting on the Confederate Flag. Meanwhile, the Democrat Party’s leading presidential candidate supported the Confederate Flag with its own special day as First Lady of Arkansas.

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2015 at 12:22 PM

Anyone know where Ed was last night? I suspect he may have been the culprit here. If not him, then Romney.

besser tot als rot on June 22, 2015 at 12:23 PM

love how hotair is furiously trying to push this article down the frontpage now despite it being the most commented on this morning.

lester on June 22, 2015 at 10:39 AM

Love how none of your Canadian NHL teams made it out of the second round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs this year. The sport is now dead in your country!

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2015 at 12:24 PM

The party if racists and pedophiles

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM

I thought Robert Byrd, gay Hollywood pedophile Brian Singer and Jeffrey Epstein belonged to the DEMOCRAT party…

avgjo on June 22, 2015 at 12:26 PM

Del, your work is cut out over dieudonne and lester.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 12:28 PM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.

lester on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

There is. Your friends in the PLO dedicated it just last year.

Palestinian Authority Unveils Memorial To 9/11 Hijackers

Ramallah, September 11 – Thirteen years after nearly 3,000 people were killed in Islamic terrorist attacks on US soil, a Palestinian monument has finally been set up to commemorate the event and to honor those who died piloting the aircraft involved.

A forty-foot statue of a Boeing 767-200ER crashing into a skyscraper was unveiled this morning in the square amid fanfare and speeches by political and cultural figures calling for continued resistance to Western “colonialism.” A military band played nationalist songs in praise of martyrdom while sweets were distributed to children, and attendees held aloft banners in tribute to the 19 men, mostly Saudi nationals, who hijacked four airplanes and crashed three of them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. A fourth attempt was thwarted by passengers and that plane crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

The base of the statue features a plaque with the names of the nineteen hijackers, after whom numerous children have been named in the Muslim world. When news of the attacks and resulting destruction reached the Palestinian territories in 2001, residents reacted jubilantly, as they saw the attacks as punishment for American policies in the Middle East. But in the intervening years Palestinian frustration has grown, as even such a fearsome blow to prominent symbols of American economic and military might produced no reduction in American support for Israel and no progress toward the defeat and destruction of Israel.

So lester, when are you planning your first visit there? Post pictures for us, OK?

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 22, 2015 at 12:29 PM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

Except for all of the non gang members who routinely die in these drive-bys.

So #SOMEBlackLivesMater…

I suppose that means you are all for the death penalty, or is it only noble for gangbangers to kill each other, but not for police officers to kill gangbangers. If a White Hispanic gang banger kills a black, does your opinion of the value of a dead gang banger’s life change?

I guess being a Leftist means that you never have to have principles or core values other than an unending drive to destroy Western society and the culture.

Reuben Hick on June 22, 2015 at 12:29 PM

I love and honor the Confederate flag

My great great great grandfather fought for the Army of Tennessee and was highly decorated

I have always looked at the war as a last defense of the concept that the individual states created the Union and that they were sovereign, delegating only certain powers to the Federal Government; alas, our defeat in that war laid this belief to rest forever and paved the way for Wilson then FDR then LBJ then Obama to progressively strip away the rights of the states and move America ever more inexorably towards leviathan central government despotism

As to the history of the war, had the south lost the war in the first year or so (if, for example, the south had badly lost the first battle of Bull Run) the southern states would have been forced back into the union and slavery would have survived

No honest person can deny this fact

How could this have been a war against slavery when defeat in the first two years of the war would have left slavery intact?

As for the charge of treason?

George Washington owed his allegiance to the British Crown and yet led an army which killed thousands of British soldiers, and overthrew the colonial government(s) as well

Washington, Adams, Jefferson et al

All traitors, definitionally

Lincoln’s war aim was to coerce a united government by any means necessary, and he only turned the Civil War into a war to end slavery when he couldn’t raise manpower any other way

I personally believe that the Confederate flag should be consigned to the museum only; de facto it was the ensign of an independent nation, if only for a short time, and shouldn’t fly from any US government government building of any kind

But of course this has nothing to do with the Confederate flag at all, it has to do with the left wishing to make the word “conservative” synonymous with “racist”

As a final point, since everyone hates southerners so much, why don’t we just leave you and we can have two nations?

After all, there’s no slavery excuse this time

We’ll go our way, you go yours…

Rick Perrys Parakeet on June 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM

“Mater”.

One of libfree’s students?

Bishop on June 22, 2015 at 12:33 PM

There is, he was elected President.

TheMadHessian on June 22, 2015 at 12:08 PM

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I thought Robert Byrd, gay Hollywood pedophile Brian Singer and Jeffrey Epstein belonged to the DEMOCRAT party…

avgjo on June 22, 2015 at 12:26 PM

Don’t forget Woody Allen and Roman Polanski.

chewmeister on June 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM

“Mater”.

One of libfree’s students?

Bishop on June 22, 2015 at 12:33 PM

Libby has a tomato as a student?

HonestLib on June 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM

Libby has a tomato as a student?

HonestLib on June 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM

First name is “Tom.”

chewmeister on June 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM

“Mater”.

One of libfree’s students?

Bishop on June 22, 2015 at 12:33 PM

Libby has a tomato as a student?

HonestLib on June 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM

Teacher.

VegasRick on June 22, 2015 at 12:36 PM

Is there a temp agency where Hot Air picks up the reflexively predictable sockpuppet/troll brigade commenters?
.
Maybe one of those “I made big money at home” operations is involved?

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on June 22, 2015 at 12:37 PM

Liberals….. can’t spell either.

ultracon on June 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM

#black lives matter … only when blacks are not murdered by other blacks. 95% of the time they are.

bw222 on June 22, 2015 at 12:41 PM

Liberals….. can’t spell either.

ultracon on June 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM

#blacklivesmater……………..

VegasRick on June 22, 2015 at 12:41 PM

Is there a temp agency where Hot Air picks up the reflexively predictable sockpuppet/troll brigade commenters?
.
Maybe one of those “I made big money at home” operations is involved?

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on June 22, 2015 at 12:37 PM

My friends third cousin makes $85 an hour

Great work-from-home
opportunity for you… Start working for 3-8 hrs daily and profit from 5k-12k dollars
each month… Get paid each week…

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HumpBot Salvation on June 22, 2015 at 12:49 PM

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

chewmeister on June 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM

I’m not too proud, I’m takin’ that chicken dinner! Battling Trolls on these boards one can work up an appetite.

TheMadHessian on June 22, 2015 at 12:54 PM

As tens of thousands of black and white Charlestonians spanned the Ravenel Bridge to unite for racial harmony, some thugs decided to desecrate a war memorial dedicated to Confederate soldiers that fought to defend their city and their state against what they considered to be Northern aggression.How many of them ever owned a single slave?Very few.The monument is not dedicated to slavery,nor racism,but to fallen soldiers.

The fact that the thug(s) couldn’t spell “matters” correctly is the most telling thing about the vandalism.Not because of one individual’s inability to spell correctly,but about the broader issues that really negatively impact the black community.It is not institutional racism as President Obama would have us believe.For his political agenda,his mistaken belief that a racist lurks around every corner,does nothing to help the black community.It only serves to divide Americans by race.The real issues that the President and his leftist pals have failed miserably to address over the past 6 years are the lack of a sound education,the thug culture,fatherless children, drugs and unemployment.Liberals have thrown billions of dollars at the issue of poverty in the black community and with very little positive results.That is because they do not want positive results.

No, it is much better for the left to keep blacks dependent on the flow of those billions upon billions spent on entitlement programs that do not lift them out of poverty-because they want them dependent on their largesse.They know that 90% of black votes will come their way due to that largesse.Maybe that is the only institutional racism that exists in America today.Only when the issues listed above are truly addressed will poverty be ameliorated in the black community.When the mysogyny and abuse of women in rap music is no longer ubiquitous,when school choice and vouchers allow blacks to escape schools that fail,when young black men take responsibility for their babies, when welfare and food stamps are truly a safety net and not a permanent way of life,and when opportunity and the American Dream replace drugs and violence as the visions of choice,will we see an end to the effects of poverty.Obama and his liberal pals have done nothing to address these issues.It is so much easier for him to blame whites for institutional racism.

redware on June 22, 2015 at 12:56 PM

imagine there was a memorial for the guys who flew the planes into the WTC.
everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM

There is. Many. Every TSA idiot with a stupid beard or hijab, every mosque built since 9/11.

Nutstuyu on June 22, 2015 at 1:04 PM

one side wants a war against racism.
the other wants a race war.
you figure out which is which.
everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 8:56 AM

As supported by all the republicans who burned their communities recently

Mr Soames on June 22, 2015 at 1:42 PM

Liberals Illiberal leftist thugs….. can’t spell either.

ultracon on June 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM

Spelling is white privilege, you raciss.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2015 at 1:49 PM

Abolishing slavery was only a mall part of that, and the main reason behind the Civil War was preserving the Union.

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 9:49 AM

You’re partly right, which is exactly why it should be flown.

Yes, abolishing slavery was a part of that. Preserving the Union was another part.

But why was a war fought “to preserve the Union” in the first place? To enshrine in law the idea that no citizen, nor any state, ever had the right to tell the federal government, “No, we’re not gonna.”

If you feel like the Stars and Bars should never be flown, the same reasoning applies to the Gadsden flag and the Gonzales flag. Nor should anyone ever use the phrase “Molon Labe.” There should be no memorials to the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto, there should be no monument at Thermopylae, and the Alamo should be torn down.

If you don’t think the same reasoning applies, please explain why not.

Have you really thought this through?

GrumpyOldFart on June 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM

Hey, I’m always right. The whole way. About everything.

And then I wake up, and realize I was dreaming. ;)

Seriously tho…preserving the Union was the #1 reason for the Civil War. The US had a bunch of states secede, and band together as a new, separate nation…complete with their own president and government. And in that, there was no difference between secession, and if a foreign military had invaded and acquired half the US as their own. And that’s happened before, as well.

Like I said, officially flying any Confederate flag is akin to the Southwestern states flying a Mexican flag. Or Northeast states flying a British Union Jack. In both of those instances, justification for supporting govt./public flying of the “Stars and Bars” of the Confederacy in the South is the same. Would you approve of that?

I don’t think we need to ban the Confederate flag altogether, like Germany does with the Nazi flag. But in no way should the Confederate flag be flown in any official, state-sanctioned way over any public/govt. property. And that includes memorials on public property.

And it’s in no way similar to flying the Gadsden or Gonzales flags. Are either of those currently flown in any state over govt./public land? Not to my knowledge, but please correct me if I am wrong. Not to mention, the history of both your flag examples aren’t similar to that of the Confederate flag. Also, your referencing memorials to Jews and Greece, etc…totally different than the topic here.

Private citizens, IMO, have a constitutional right to free expression, and therefore can fly a Confederate flag on their property if they want to. Frankly, I don’t personally care for that…but that’s just my opinion. But a Confederate flag flying in any official capacity over govt./public property is inherently wrong. I really don’t understand why anyone can possibly see that any different.

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 2:04 PM

Where did you go EVERDISCO??? So you are saying that the gangbangers who are black don’t matter if they get killed???? I don’t understand you logic,,,, I thought ALL BLACK lives MATTERED???? I guess not. You sound like Himmler picking out the best Germans for the SS.

garydt on June 22, 2015 at 2:20 PM

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 2:04 PM

Couldn’t have said it any better myself! Perfect response.

nextgen_repub on June 22, 2015 at 2:21 PM

gangmembers killing gangmembers has nothing to do with whites murdering blacks because they are black.

everdiso on June 22, 2015 at 10:29 AM

Let me ask you something jerk-off, someone like me who comes from a mixed background family that has both Caucasian, Jamaican (you can go ahead and read black), Hispanic, and African American family members. Should I be more wanting justice to prevail, if a black person killed my white nephew while calling him a “cracker” or should I want more justice to be meted out to a white person who killed my black nephew while calling him the n-word.

Please let me know douchebag, since you want to be the overall protector of us lowly minorities that need your white guilt ridden help to get justice in this racist country.

Leopard1996 on June 22, 2015 at 2:23 PM

Jazz Shaw’s posts have been stronger, sharper and blunter lately.

Jazz has been less equivocating than liberal Republican Ed Morrissey, and it is much appreciated.

Seems like Jazz is less afraid to go against the politically correct line. Whatever Jazz has been eating with his Wheaties lately has been having an impact. Keep it up, Jazz!

bluegill on June 22, 2015 at 2:51 PM

Obama will destroy race relations.

DFCtomm on June 22, 2015 at 3:23 PM

Seems like Jazz is less afraid to go against the politically correct line. Whatever Jazz has been eating with his Wheaties lately has been having an impact. Keep it up, Jazz!

bluegill on June 22, 2015 at 2:51 PM

The true breakfast of champions 3 strips of bacon and 3 eggs.

DFCtomm on June 22, 2015 at 3:25 PM

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 2:04 PM

There are many more instances and links. How many would you like?

Cinco de Shutup: Court rules schools can ban American flag for safety concerns

Mexican flag flies at U.S. post office
Old Glory stamped on in protest by backers of illegal immigration

Pro-Amnesty Crowd Burns American Flag at Murrieta on 4th of July

I used to give you the benefit of the doubt and read your posts even when I thought you were being incredibly narrow minded… right up until you became an ISIS apologist. Since then your opinion doesn’t matter to me.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 3:34 PM

A Confederate monument defaced

The real question is why there are any confederate war monuments in the US.

Tlaloc on June 22, 2015 at 3:38 PM

There are many more instances and links. How many would you like?

Cinco de Shutup: Court rules schools can ban American flag for safety concerns

Mexican flag flies at U.S. post office
Old Glory stamped on in protest by backers of illegal immigration

Pro-Amnesty Crowd Burns American Flag at Murrieta on 4th of July

I used to give you the benefit of the doubt and read your posts even when I thought you were being incredibly narrow minded… right up until you became an ISIS apologist. Since then your opinion doesn’t matter to me.

thatsafactjack on June 22, 2015 at 3:34 PM

What do any of those things have to do with this topic? Nothing, that’s what.

And if you think I’m some ISIS apologist, you have some serious reading comprehension issues. You’re off on some tangent that isn’t remotely true, nor has a single thing to do with the Confederate flag debate.

JetBoy on June 22, 2015 at 3:50 PM

The inability to spell tells you all you need to know about the cretins who did this.

paulus1 on June 22, 2015 at 4:52 PM

The real question is why there are any confederate war monuments in the US.

Tlaloc on June 22, 2015 at 3:38 PM

Do you have a problem with the German memorial to their dead at Normandy ?

F X Muldoon on June 22, 2015 at 5:47 PM

Sorry. Much as I agree with you about the defacing of the statue, the old “Civil War was about more than slavery” canard is nothing but a bit of self-absolution that southerners engage in to assuage our guilt over defending human bondage.

Lamont Cranston on June 22, 2015 at 8:20 AM

The old canard that should be laid to rest is the constant attempt to reduce every issue in the War Between the States to one issue: slavery.

Liberals love to do this, because it allows them to be self-righteous. After all, the only issue that the North was really in the right on was the issue about slavery. The South was right on the sovereignty of states. And by waging war against supposedly sovereign states to prevent them from being able to leave the Union, they essentially made the states no longer sovereign, but subjugated to the federal government. We’ve been paying the price for that ever since.

No matter how much you may believe it was all about slavery, there are a lot of people in the South who don’t believe that at all. They are entitled to believe exactly that and to live accordingly.

It was inevitable that the left would bring up the flag issue to try to make the South look bad. It’s foolish for Republicans and conservatives to help them.

The blame for these murders in Charleston is on the murderer, not the flag, and not the southern culture.

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 22, 2015 at 6:43 PM

A Confederate monument defaced

The penalty for appeasement. Knew it was going to happen.

MaiDee on June 22, 2015 at 7:06 PM

It’s all good. The way is being paved to ensure that anything considered politically incorrect by the left will be unlawful. This is what occurs will the patients run the asylum. The poor, gov’t dependent, and the stupid have become the majority. It happens when a gov’t subsidizes poverty for 50 years. Now there are more ignorant takers than intelligent makers. And here’s a hoot. The dems want to reinstate voting privileges for felons. Add in the 18 million soon to be amnestied illegals and you have a demographic of poverty, ignorance, and lawlessness that will be able to elect whomever they wish. Most of the nation will become like California. What a bright future for the country the democrat party has painted. Soon it will be civil war or secession of dozens of states. The dems think they are building a permanent one party rule when in reality all they are doing is ensuring violent conflict.

phadras on June 22, 2015 at 7:46 PM

There are NO people alive in this country today who were SLAVE HOLDERS; there are NO people alive today who were SLAVES; and there are NO people alive today who fought for slavery, just as there is NO SUCH THING as “collective guilt!” It is a completely illogical and absurd premise that people can be “guilty” for things they themselves had no part in, especially for things that occurred before they were even born! Collective guilt is a tool used to divide and control people. STOP USING IT!

The families of those killed in this horrific crime are true Christians who embody the teachings of love and forgiveness… the ONLY remedy for the perpetual hatred and never-ending retribution that some would foment to keep people at each others’ throats!

Logic on June 22, 2015 at 8:44 AM

Worth repeating — and the following video is worth seeing.
http://libertyunyielding.com/2015/06/22/young-black-conservative-hammers-obama-for-politicizing-charleston-shooting-video/

AesopFan on June 22, 2015 at 8:45 PM

The real question is why there are any confederate war monuments in the US.

Tlaloc on June 22, 2015 at 3:38 PM

Read and understand Lincoln. and you’ll get it. A good starting point would be his second inaugural address.

Ricard on June 23, 2015 at 8:34 AM