Victory! Boys born as boys can shower with girls in Kentucky school

posted at 5:21 pm on September 30, 2014 by Jazz Shaw

I probably would have missed this story were it not for Maggie Gallagher at The Corner. It seems that the good people on the appeal board considering a case at Atherton High School (part of the Jefferson County public school system) have determined that you can use the girls’ bathrooms, locker room and showers if you say you’re a girl. No physical required.

A transgender teenager, who was born male but identifies as a female, can continue to use a women’s restroom and locker room at a Jefferson County Public School.

In a 5-to-1 vote, an appeal board upheld Atherton High School’s nondiscrimination policy Thursday, which states the school must accept the gender identity each student asserts and shouldn’t discriminate on the use of school space on the basis of gender identity nor gender expression.

If you read the full report from the local press you will find that the appeals board is composed of teachers, two parents and a school administrator. The board rejected appeals from parents who somehow thought this might be a bad idea. (They were clearly haters of some sort, I’m sure.)

Even as complicated as things have gotten in our 21st century society, I understand that some issues have arisen for various non-traditional individuals when it comes to workplace and public restrooms. I’m not all that put off by having a third, gender-optional bathroom at large offices, airports and other such locations. But this is a school We’re talking about children. And more specifically – in the context of a high school – we’re talking about teenage boys. Now, I don’t want to disillusion anyone here, but I have some experience in this subject, having been a teenage boy myself back in the day. If you presented me with an opportunity to get into the girl’s shower when I was fifteen, would I have gone so far as to claim I was in the incorrect gender assignment?

I’m going to need some time to ponder that one. A comment from Maggie.

As I have said before, I’m pretty sympathetic to the idea everybody needs a bathroom. But what kind of a society has priorities like these?

That would seem to be the question. But in the meantime, I’ll just say that this is a terrible idea. I’m not sure which parents are sending their sons into this particular battlefield in high school, but going on nothing but personal experience and anecdotal history, the story doesn’t end well. Asking for a third bathroom and locker room in public schools – particularly in lower income areas – may simply not be an option. And this is no option at all.


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Bmore

Schadenfreude on September 30, 2014 at 11:57 PM

listens2glenn on September 30, 2014 at 11:36 PM

.
I don’t think I am. Has he written anything? My husband has a British book titled Reason Enough, but I was looking for it just now and cannot yet find it.

From the time I was a little girl, truth was important to me. I think it’s why I was drawn to mathematics. I wanted to know something was rock-solidly true.

INC on September 30, 2014 at 11:44 PM

.
I don’t know what books he has had published, but it’s hard to believe he doesn’t have any. He is the most “decorated” creation scientist, that I’m aware of, with a double doctorate in quantum algebra.
I have only come to know Dr Wray by way of Dr Carl Baugh, another creation scientist. Most of what Dr Wray says in those videos goes right over my head. but he claims to have mathematically proven that the earth is no more than 10,000 years old, and no less than 6000 years.

Ironically, he came upon this knowledge as an atheist, in a deliberate attempt to mathematically disprove the existence of God.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 12:01 AM

Tlaloc on September 30, 2014 at 11:50 PM

I thought that if you were going to refer to him, that it was important to know about him.

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM

Bmore

Schadenfreude on September 30, 2014 at 11:57 PM

.
Nooo . . . . . . . Bless . . . . . . . . wait a minute … that is a word, isn’t it ?

Jokes on me.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 12:04 AM

I think it’s safe to say that if the conservatives have lost Kentucky they’ve lost this fight.

Tlaloc on September 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM

Which one is that?

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 12:05 AM

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 12:01 AM

Thanks for the info. There is a beauty in math (bear with me those of you who hate it), that reflects the Lord of Creation.

Interesting quote:

The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences

by Eugene Wigner

The preceding two stories illustrate the two main points which are the subjects of the present discourse. The first point is that mathematical concepts turn up in entirely unexpected connections. Moreover, they often permit an unexpectedly close and accurate description of the phenomena in these connections. Secondly, just because of this circumstance, and because we do not understand the reasons of their usefulness, we cannot know whether a theory formulated in terms of mathematical concepts is uniquely appropriate. We are in a position similar to that of a man who was provided with a bunch of keys and who, having to open several doors in succession, always hit on the right key on the first or second trial. He became skeptical concerning the uniqueness of the coordination between keys and doors.

Most of what will be said on these questions will not be new; it has probably occurred to most scientists in one form or another. My principal aim is to illuminate it from several sides. The first point is that the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and that there is no rational explanation for it. Second, it is just this uncanny usefulness of mathematical concepts that raises the question of the uniqueness of our physical theories.

The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve. We should be grateful for it and hope that it will remain valid in future research and that it will extend, for better or for worse, to our pleasure, even though perhaps also to our bafflement, to wide branches of learning.

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:11 AM

It’s only unreasonable to the unbeliever. Francis Schaeffer, a Christian, wrote in the 1970’s:

Living within the concept that the world was created by a reasonable God, scientists could move with confidence, expecting to find out about the world by observation and experimentation. This was their epistemological base–the philosophical foundation with which they were sure they could know….Since the world had been created by a reasonable God, they were not surprised to find a correlation between themselves as observers and the thing observed….Without this foundation, Western modern science would not have been born.

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:13 AM

John Napier, Copernicus, Kepler, Newton and Euler were also Christians.

Copernicus, “To him the universe was built for us by the Best and Most Orderly Workman of all.“;

Kepler:

I consider it a right, yes a duty, to search in cautious manner for the numbers, sizes and weights, the norms for everything He has created. For He Himself has let man take part in the knowledge of these things and thus not in a small measure has set up His image in man.

…For these secrets are not of the kind whose research should be forbidden; rather they are set before our eyes like a mirror so that by examining them we observe to some extent the goodness and wisdom of the Creator.

A famous quote attributed to Galileo:

Mathematics is the alphabet with which God has written the universe.

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:16 AM

Wow. You guys are sure showing off some appalling bigotry – to the extent that it makes me ill having you come down similarly in the political spectrum to myself. Having you identify as conservatives is sort of like having the Klan show up in support of your cause – you just wish they’d go home.

Gender Identify Disorder isn’t a joke, isn’t something people casually fake just to see the other gender naked, and isn’t some simple random liberal lifestyle choice. It’s a very psychological condition that is well documented and very poorly understood by the general public. I know several individuals with it, and I can’t imagine how difficult their lives are on a daily basis. Most have been thrown out by their families – often as teenagers – and few find a great deal of acceptance from anyone. Unlike homosexuality there is no social awareness of gender identify disorder and there are even fewer advocates for individuals that identify as gender dysmorphic. They are often horribly bullied in school, and rarely find teachers or administrators that understand their condition. Frankly, I’m heartened to see that the district got it right in this case, because so often they get it wrong.

You think people are going to pretend to be gender dysmorphic just to sneak into the girl’s shower? I suspect you see far more individuals living with (and too often not living after persistent social harassment) their condition and pretending to be ‘normal’ in order to avoid the stigma it attaches to them.

But yeah, go on, let’s have a laugh about boys being boys and sneaking into locker rooms. Let’s demonize people that feel physically uncomfortable in their own bodies, are social pariahs, and who have literally no advocates of note. You want to kick the kid with Down ’s syndrome too? Why don’t you beat up on the kid in the wheelchair too? Seems like the good Christian thing to do.

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

ISO will cure all.

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 12:23 AM

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

You wield a mighty broad brush there as you attempt to stereotype all the comments into one. The district did not get it right. It offered no protection to other students and it assumed that sexual identity confusion is a normal state. As I commented back on page one:

When Paul McHugh became became psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital in 1975 he was faced with making a decision on policy regarding sex-change surgery. He wrote an article in 2004 on how he went about making the decision, the data he looked at, and the other physicians he consulted. The result was that Johns Hopkins stopped prescribing the surgery. He has a shockingly non-PC conclusion:

We have wasted scientific and technical resources and damaged our professional credibility by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure, and ultimately prevent it.

That column is about 10 years old. Earlier this summer he wrote one for the WSJ. There’s a brief excerpt quoted at NRO:

…advocates for the transgendered have persuaded several states—including California, New Jersey and Massachusetts—to pass laws barring psychiatrists, even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor. That government can intrude into parents’ rights to seek help in guiding their children indicates how powerful these advocates have become.

How to respond? Psychiatrists obviously must challenge the solipsistic concept that what is in the mind cannot be questioned.…

More from the WSJ column:

Transgender Surgery Isn’t the Solution
A drastic physical change doesn’t address underlying psycho-social troubles.

by Paul McHugh

There are subgroups of the transgendered, and for none does “reassignment” seem apt.…

Another subgroup consists of young men and women susceptible to suggestion from “everything is normal” sex education, amplified by Internet chat groups. These are the transgender subjects most like anorexia nervosa patients: They become persuaded that seeking a drastic physical change will banish their psycho-social problems. “Diversity” counselors in their schools, rather like cult leaders, may encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery. Treatments here must begin with removing the young person from the suggestive environment and offering a counter-message in family therapy….

His conclusion is again shockingly non-PC:

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:29 AM

ISO will cure all.

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 12:23 AM

Coerced Utopia, here we come!

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:31 AM

Victory! Boys born as boys can shower with girls in Kentucky school

To the legal profession, this must sound like the Hallelujah Chorus.
More cases than they can Handel.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on October 1, 2014 at 12:36 AM

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on October 1, 2014 at 12:36 AM

.
Right … “Handel” . . . . . . . : )

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 12:43 AM

The insanity of it all. When did the country totally go crazy?

RdLake on October 1, 2014 at 12:45 AM

There is a beauty in math (bear with me those of you who hate it), that reflects the Lord of Creation.

Interesting quote:

The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences

by Eugene Wigner

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:11 AM

.
Absolutely . . . . . . . this “intelligently designed” creation was made with the utmost ‘harmonic (absolute zero conflict) precision’, just like good music … and that requires the utmost in mathematical calculation and accuracy, to accomplish and achieve.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 12:55 AM

Which one is that?

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 12:05 AM

The fight to make transgendered kids miserable apparently.

I can see where you guys have so many similar positions it’s hard to keep them all straight (pun intended).

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 12:58 AM

The insanity of it all. When did the country totally go crazy?

RdLake on October 1, 2014 at 12:45 AM

.
It started post-WWII, when (WAY) too many Christians STOPPED … being “the salt of the earth.” Then, enter the Warren SCOTUS . . . . . I don’t disagree with all “Warren Court” decisions, but the bad ones were the BADDEST …

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 1:08 AM

Your head will be chopped off among the first.

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 1:14 AM

The insanity of it all. When did the country totally go crazy?

RdLake on October 1, 2014 at 12:45 AM

Early in the last century. Leftists are always thugs and never liberal, in the true sense of the word.

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 1:15 AM

Exhibit 987

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 1:16 AM

This guy called to have US Soldiers killed and was forbidden a visa to the US, previous to the current goons in DC.

Exhibit 1000

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 1:17 AM

They’d invite Hitler to speak, were he alive today. Yale would pay him 100,000 a speech.

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 1:18 AM

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:29 AM

I’m curious, where did I mention surgery as a corrective means?

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 2:19 AM

Gender Identify Disorder isn’t a joke

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

Mental illness rarely is. On the other hand, treating someone delusions as if they were reality is a very very cruel joke. Shame on the school board.

Ronnie on October 1, 2014 at 2:58 AM

Victory! Boys born as boys can shower with girls in Kentucky school

This is discrimination! Why can’t heterosexual boys shower with da ladies? ;-(

So, showers and peeing, showers and peeing…the Golden Days of Socialism…”golden”…hmmm, why do I think that the same types behind the S&M sex education types at Planned Parenthood are behind all this…er, “behind”…yeah, that stuff, too.

But, I’m just a crazy conspiracy theorist, so never mind me.

Dr. ZhivBlago on October 1, 2014 at 5:51 AM

I don’t know why a non-liberal, rational parent would send his/her child to a public school.

higgins1991 on October 1, 2014 at 6:59 AM

GYConservative: Your sex life and preferences are of no concern to me. Why do you insist on making it a public matter? That’s not very conservative.

Interesting, if fatally flawed comparison you make between transsexuals and Downs syndrome. The latter did nothing to cause his condition and has done nothing to freakish to alter themselves and make normal people uncomfortable and repulsed by them. The former are mentally disturbed. They want to cut their genitals off (or worse have others do it for them), act like the opposite sex, and then require we not only accept this, but celebrate it. We all know where this is leading: the normalization of the freakish and the marginalizing of the normal. It is this that I have a problem with, not the mere existence of people who are mentally unstable.

There is a reason we are repulsed by trannies, who are clearly ill: It is hard-wired into us.

Finally, why does the politically active gay community want to associate themselves with transsexuals? Are they really gay? At what point will you draw the line? Pedophilia? We shall soon see, I think. Good luck.

Nomennovum on October 1, 2014 at 7:15 AM

boys can shower with girls

Dang. Born too early again.

Tsar of Earth on October 1, 2014 at 8:16 AM

Atherton was still a fine public school when my siblings and I attended it several decades ago.

When our mother attended Atherton, it was for girls only and had an excellent reputation. Too bad the current school is now the butt of so many bad jokes (including this sentence).

By the way, when my generation attended Atherton, its teams were the “Rebels,” and the mascot was depicted wearing a gray uniform and carrying a Confederate battle flag. In the 1970s, the “Rebel” became a Revolutionary War soldier.

Today, I suppose some people are unhappy that it’s a soldier at all.

KyMouse on October 1, 2014 at 9:04 AM

Ok how about this angle: I’m a 65 yr old guy and I want to shower will the girls in a Jefferson County Public School because I feel I am female and I am 16 years old. That’s my identity and I’m sticking to it.

soghornetgunner on October 1, 2014 at 9:42 AM

Which one is that?

Schadenfreude on October 1, 2014 at 12:05 AM

.
The fight to make transgendered kids miserable apparently.

I can see where you guys have so many similar positions it’s hard to keep them all straight (pun intended).

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 12:58 AM

.
Anyone suffering from an ABNORMAL affliction/condition, is miserable because they can’t rid themselves of the ABNORMAL affliction/condition on their own, AND … they’re surrounded by people who don’t know how to be compassionate, and deal with the situation in a Godly way.
Their misery is NOT because ‘society-at-large’ won’t accept the affliction/condition as “normal.”

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 10:26 AM

Paul McHugh, psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital said:

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

This has been my position on the issue for decades. Born a male, always a male. Born a female, always a female. It is your makeup at the molecular level. Born XX, always XX.

soghornetgunner on October 1, 2014 at 10:31 AM

Well, I bet the boys, at least, were happy to get the little flamer out of the locker room.

M240H on October 1, 2014 at 10:33 AM

Wow. You guys are sure showing off some appalling bigotry – to the extent that it makes me ill having you come down similarly in the political spectrum to myself. Having you identify as conservatives is sort of like having the Klan show up in support of your cause – you just wish they’d go home.

Gender Identify Disorder isn’t a joke, isn’t something people casually fake just to see the other gender naked, and isn’t some simple random liberal lifestyle choice. It’s a very psychological condition that is well documented and very poorly understood by the general public. I know several individuals with it, and I can’t imagine how difficult their lives are on a daily basis. Most have been thrown out by their families – often as teenagers – and few find a great deal of acceptance from anyone. Unlike homosexuality there is no social awareness of gender identify disorder and there are even fewer advocates for individuals that identify as gender dysmorphic. They are often horribly bullied in school, and rarely find teachers or administrators that understand their condition. Frankly, I’m heartened to see that the district got it right in this case, because so often they get it wrong.

You think people are going to pretend to be gender dysmorphic just to sneak into the girl’s shower? I suspect you see far more individuals living with (and too often not living after persistent social harassment) their condition and pretending to be ‘normal’ in order to avoid the stigma it attaches to them.

But yeah, go on, let’s have a laugh about boys being boys and sneaking into locker rooms. Let’s demonize people that feel physically uncomfortable in their own bodies, are social pariahs, and who have literally no advocates of note. You want to kick the kid with Down ’s syndrome too? Why don’t you beat up on the kid in the wheelchair too? Seems like the good Christian thing to do.

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

If it is that serious, they should have their own bathroom. I know it might be difficult for them to deal with but how difficult will it be for people who have to be exposed to this and have serious reservations. I don’t see any great movement to intergrate religion into schools it is going the opposite direction. They want us all to be accepting, well that woorks two ways.

Sven on October 1, 2014 at 11:00 AM

GYConservative: Your sex life and preferences are of no concern to me. Why do you insist on making it a public matter?

bmmg39 on October 1, 2014 at 11:06 AM

GYConservative: Your sex life and preferences are of no concern to me. Why do you insist on making it a public matter?

When, in your eyes, did GYConservative do anything of the sort?

bmmg39 on October 1, 2014 at 11:07 AM

“B-b-b-but you wouldn’t say that about Islam” doesn’t vindicate your antiquated, false belief system.

Islam is a lie. Muhammad is a pedophile. Koran promotes hate.

The Bible’s teachings are still erroneous.

rnb on September 30, 2014 at 9:55 PM

Except that that isn’t my belief system. I’m agnostic.

Remember, the conservative charicatures that your idiot professors taught you to gnash your teeth over are mostly imaginary.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 11:08 AM

Paul McHugh, psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital said :

. . . . . At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

This has been my position on the issue for decades. Born a male, always a male. Born a female, always a female. It is your makeup at the molecular level. Born XX, always XX.

soghornetgunner on October 1, 2014 at 10:31 AM

.
Damn … that’s GOOD . . . . . . kudos for finding that, and posting it.

That sums up my views, as well … but I could never have put it in that ‘superior’ wording.
.
But I still agree with SC.Charlie’s 10:06 PM comment from last night, as well.
To those of you who see a ‘contradiction’ in that, I say “there isn’t.”

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 11:20 AM

So ditch the Bible because it’s fairly useless.

rnb on September 30, 2014 at 10:22 PM

This is a fairly ignorant statement. A text that has been studied by scholars for thousands of years can hardly be characterized as useless.

Even if you dismiss its moral teachings, it still has value in historical, philisophical, and literature contexts.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 11:25 AM

“a person who attempts to stir up or spread something that is usually petty or discreditable”

You implied you don’t buy into the liberal notion that we have a “rape culture”. So don’t use the “rape culture” fraud to justify your bigotry.

rnb on September 30, 2014 at 10:24 PM

How am I using the “rape culture” mantra to justify my purported bigotry?

What have I said that indicates that I’m bigoted?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 11:28 AM

“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.”

I’d say that’s an inconvenient “flaw” for a faith that purports to be peaceful.

Which avenue are you going to take? A) Claim the Bible is only referencing the law of the land, B) Dismiss it as esoteric and argue it has no relevance to modern practitioners of the faith, or C) Claim the verse has been misinterpreted and lost in translation.

Why do you feel that Christians are responsible for justifying a passage from the Old Testament in which Jehovah gives instructions to the Israelites?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Sheer lunacy.

sadatoni on October 1, 2014 at 12:10 PM

I don’t understand how the people that made this decision got to be that stupid.

The fundamental problem with the issue of people who have gender dysphoria is that there are far too many people who want to enable them rather than treating them. Just as the answer to someone who has body integrity identity disorder is not to start lopping off limbs so that they feel better about themselves, the answer to someone who has gender dysphoria is not to treat them as the gender they think they should be.

Othniel on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 PM

A myriad of contradictions do not amount to evidence of the lack of the existence of a God, Christian or otherwise.

Star Bird on September 30, 2014 at 10:03 PM

It’s strong evidence that any god that exists is not what christians think it is.

Tlaloc on September 30, 2014 at 10:49 PM

It’s doubtful that any potential god that exists is what any Earth bound faith thinks it is.

Regardless, contradictions written in dogma don’t stand as evidence of anything other than the existence of contradictions written in dogma.

So no, not only isn’t it strong evidence for your claim, it actually isn’t evidence at all.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 12:20 PM

They don’t seem to realize there’s a distinction between proving their god exists and proving that a god exists.

rnb on September 30, 2014 at 10:50 PM

Where did this distinction come up in conversation previously?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 12:28 PM

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

wanna see my vagenis?
can we see your pegina?

dmacleo on October 1, 2014 at 12:36 PM

That’s childish and problematic for all sorts of reasons. Whether or not “Shakespeare” existed doesn’t matter. Why? Because his non-existence wouldn’t undermine the works themselves. If Jeebus didn’t exist, then the entire Bible myth goes down the drain.

rnb on September 30, 2014 at 11:06 PM

The entire Bible myth?

You do realize of course, that Jesus only appears in the New Testament, right?

The problem you’re having with this point of view, is that the Gospels, even the excised ones, are generally considered by believers to be eyewitness testimony; a piece of evidence that is routinely accepted in a court of law.

Whereas the eyewitness testimony for the existence of Shakespeare isn’t quite as voluminous.

Misspelling Jesus to mock a conservative charicature that exists only in your imagination doesn’t change this.

Furthermore, the non-existence (which is unlikely given that any myth is generally based on some truth anyway) of Jesus does not undermine the historical, sociological, cultural, and literature value of the piece.

But I am interested in knowing, if you feel that the non-existence of Allah would send the entire Koran down the drain?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 12:38 PM

I see that we are to have compassion for the transgender teen…but what about compassion for the teenage girls who have to put up with the possibility of the naked person with male genitals in their locker room.?

I’m not talking about rape, and I’m not particularly worried about guys faking being transgendered. (I have no idea whether this is likely, not ever having been a guy.) I remember darn well how much I disliked even showering with other girls. If I had seen a male walking into the shower room, I’d have been embarrassed to tears. Maybe not every female feels that way, but I don’t think that things have changed so much that every female is fine with this.

You people who think this is just fine are out of your minds. THIS is a war on women, in the real sense.

Clemence on October 1, 2014 at 12:45 PM

It’s hard not to know, you guys never shut up about it :)

I think that it’s fairly evident that you don’t, considering that the bulk of the Collective’s theological knowledge seems to come from George Carlin.

the thing is Pascal’s wager is exactly backwards. If one posits an all knowing omnipotent god and two after lives then the safe bet is not to play good in hopes of tricking it into thinking you deserve heaven. much better to just be yourself and trust that said entity will make the right choice because, well, you posited it was omniscient and omnipotent so it’s not like you’d have any recourse anyways.

Tlaloc on September 30, 2014 at 11:43 PM

Remember padawan, WikiPedia is for fools.

But more to the point, the fact that these texts have caused you to ask these questions demonstrates its value in that context.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Did you know that Pascal was a Christian?

INC on September 30, 2014 at 11:45 PM

Does it matter?

Tlaloc on September 30, 2014 at 11:50 PM

It depends.

What’s your general opinion of Christians?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 12:56 PM

Wow. You guys are sure showing off some appalling bigotry – to the extent that it makes me ill having you come down similarly in the political spectrum to myself. Having you identify as conservatives is sort of like having the Klan show up in support of your cause – you just wish they’d go home.

Believe it or not, you wouldn’t be the first drone from the Collective who tried to portray a conservative in an attempt to mold conservative views.

Gender Identify Disorder isn’t a joke, isn’t something people casually fake just to see the other gender naked, and isn’t some simple random liberal lifestyle choice. It’s a very psychological condition that is well documented and very poorly understood by the general public.

Then you haven’t met any heterosexual teenage boys, thow will pretty much do anything to see their classmates naked.

I know several individuals with it, and I can’t imagine how difficult their lives are on a daily basis. Most have been thrown out by their families – often as teenagers – and few find a great deal of acceptance from anyone. Unlike homosexuality there is no social awareness of gender identify disorder and there are even fewer advocates for individuals that identify as gender dysmorphic. They are often horribly bullied in school, and rarely find teachers or administrators that understand their condition. Frankly, I’m heartened to see that the district got it right in this case, because so often they get it wrong.

Letting naked teenage boys shower with naked teenage girls is getting it right? Is that your assertion here?

You think people are going to pretend to be gender dysmorphic just to sneak into the girl’s shower? I suspect you see far more individuals living with (and too often not living after persistent social harassment) their condition and pretending to be ‘normal’ in order to avoid the stigma it attaches to them.

Gender dysmorphic.

It’s always the phraseology that betrays a drone’s allegiance to the Collective.

But yeah, go on, let’s have a laugh about boys being boys and sneaking into locker rooms. Let’s demonize people that feel physically uncomfortable in their own bodies, are social pariahs, and who have literally no advocates of note. You want to kick the kid with Down ’s syndrome too? Why don’t you beat up on the kid in the wheelchair too? Seems like the good Christian thing to do.

GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

And a final knock on Christians makes it a lock.

It’s right after you support putting naked teenage boys showering with naked teenage girls, that you should immediately begin lecturing thinking people about rape culture.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 1:04 PM

Coerced Utopia, here we come!

INC on October 1, 2014 at 12:31 AM

There’s no Utopia, like a coerced Utopia.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 1:08 PM

The fight to make transgendered kids miserable apparently.

I can see where you guys have so many similar positions it’s hard to keep them all straight (pun intended).

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 12:58 AM

Where is there a fight to make transgendered kids miserable? who is leading this fight? Who is fighting this fight?

I want to see the bumber stickers and campaign ads.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM

Exit question:

Would you say that Allah is a myth too

Star Bird on September 30, 2014 at 9:48 PM

I haven’t looked as closely at the Koran but I’d be willing to bet yes. Jehovah too.

Tlaloc on September 30, 2014 at 9:53 PM

Islam is a lie. Muhammad is a pedophile. Koran promotes hate.

The Bible’s teachings are still erroneous.

rnb on September 30, 2014 at 9:55 PM

Are Tlaloc and rnb Islamophobes?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 1:18 PM

Are Tlaloc and rnb Islamophobes?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 1:18 PM

.
I wouldn’t go that far, but they sure wouldn’t last long under ISIS.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 1:26 PM

I’m going to need some time to ponder that one.

Really dont need to ponder that for long, when I was 15 if I could shower in the girls locker room with no more reason than a simple statement?
Could someone pass the shampoo please?

Koa on October 1, 2014 at 2:14 PM

I’m still waiting for someone to explain why it’s OK for teenage girls who do NOT want to be made miserably uncomfortable to have to shower with biological males.

Or for that matter, why peeping Toms are prosecuted? If a woman has no right to be modest, then the peeping Tom has done nothing wrong.

Clemence on October 1, 2014 at 3:10 PM

“If you presented me with an opportunity to get into the girl’s shower when I was fifteen, would I have gone so far as to claim I was in the incorrect gender assignment?” I would have! Dress, wig, and a trip to my local Cabela’s or Bass Pro Shop for a motion activated game camera! Also Nike shoe box for cover ha ha ha

hurricane567 on October 1, 2014 at 3:29 PM

The lunacy of these idiotic potential rapist accomplices is the kind of bs the Second Amendment protects against.

russedav on October 1, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Are Tlaloc and rnb Islamophobes?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 1:18 PM

I’m quite willing to give Muslims the right to worship their fairy tales, just as you have the right to worship yours.

I however retain the right to laugh at both groups equally.

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Dear Jeff county:
I was so thrilled to hear the news of you being so accomodating in letting us guys into the girls restroom/lockerroom so long as we PROMISE we really identify as the female sex. You know how good we can be sure to be at keeping that promise, right? Thanks again for this wonderful opportunity!
Yeah, right, and I’ve got some Kansas City ocean front property these fools would love to buy too! Truth is surely stranger than fiction; they’ll let any kind of useful idiot be on a school board. If Jeff cty were run by sane adults these clowns would be gone; no danger of that evidently.

russedav on October 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

I wouldn’t go that far, but they sure wouldn’t last long under ISIS.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 1:26 PM

I think the case could be made for Tlaloc being far more moderate, but I’m not so sure about rnb.

rnb’s disparaging comments about the Islamic faith strike me as extremely Islamophobic and potentially racist.

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM

I’m quite willing to give Muslims the right to worship their fairy tales, just as you have the right to worship yours.

I however retain the right to laugh at both groups equally.

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 3:38 PM

So I’m guessing you missed the part where I told rnb that I was Agnostic?

Regardless, would this mean then that you wouldn’t support bringing a lawsuit against public displays of the 7 Pillars of Islam, as the ACLU and FFFF have against public displays of the 10 Commandments?

Or do you feel that ACLU and FFFF should launch similar lawsuits against public Islamic displays?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM

I’m not talking about rape, and I’m not particularly worried about guys faking being transgendered. (I have no idea whether this is likely, not ever having been a guy.)

Clemence on October 1, 2014 at 12:45 PM

I don’t think it’s all that likely.

But what IS more likely is the awkward, socially outcast kid unhappy with his image and his lot in life being pressured by our oversexed “culture”, media, and ever-leftward-lurching psychology professionals to believe that they are transgendered, and being railroaded down that path as if it’s some great victory for Civil Rights, when it’s really just sending a person’s life spiralling even further down the drain.

HikaruKitsune on October 1, 2014 at 4:08 PM

this is just one of the 250,000 reasons that the US is going down the toilet faster than greased lightning.

Once a country loses its traditions, culture, and standards; it’s no longer a country. It’s just a place where people show up either legally or illegally, make demands, and suck off the people who pay taxes–which is shrinking every year.

You are no longer an American. You are just a nameless entity who pays taxes to support those who don’t.

The inability to at least have a medical determination as to whether an “it” is male or female is symptomatic of our decline.

BMF on October 1, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Clemence on October 1, 2014 at 12:45 PM

.
. . . . . what IS more likely is the awkward, socially outcast kid unhappy with his image and his lot in life being pressured by our oversexed “culture”, media, and ever-leftward-lurching psychology professionals to believe that they are transgendered, and being railroaded down that path as if it’s some great victory for Civil Rights, when it’s really just sending a person’s life spiralling even further down the drain.
.
HikaruKitsune on October 1, 2014 at 4:08 PM

.
Ding … ding … ding … ding … ding …

WINNER !

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 5:49 PM

The inability to at least have a medical determination as to whether an “it” is male or female is symptomatic of our decline.

BMF on October 1, 2014 at 4:13 PM

We have darn near relinquished our last claim to be superior to the dumbest booga-booga- barbarian if we try to invent some middle ground between male and female for ‘confused’* ‘children’ who haven’t even finished growing up.

As much as the modern world has made puberty confusing, frustrating, and without standards for a confused young person to grasp, ‘confusion’ on wether you’re a guy or a girl usually should end at a slap for emo stupidity and an admonition to go pull down your pants in your bedroom.

*(mentally ill and in need of help far away from the public scene)

LawfulGood on October 1, 2014 at 8:29 PM

I wouldn’t go that far, but they sure wouldn’t last long under ISIS.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Good thing that ISIS is never ever going to conquer the US then, huh?

You guys and your paranoid fantasies…

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 10:31 PM

Or do you feel that ACLU and FFFF should launch similar lawsuits against public Islamic displays?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM

I see no reason that any faith should be supported by public dollars or on public land.

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 10:32 PM

I wouldn’t go that far, but they sure wouldn’t last long under ISIS.

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 1:26 PM

.
Good thing that ISIS is never ever going to conquer the US then, huh?

You guys and your paranoid fantasies…

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 10:31 PM

.
What “fantasies” ? (paranoid, or otherwise)

listens2glenn on October 1, 2014 at 10:48 PM

Good thing that ISIS is never ever going to conquer the US then, huh?

You guys and your paranoid fantasies…

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 10:31 PM

Who was fantasizing about ISIS conquering the US?

Are you sure you’re not fantasizing about those guys fantasizing?

Star Bird on October 1, 2014 at 10:52 PM

I hate to break it to the group, but being transgender is real and they are generally normal, nice individuals that just want a chance to not be harassed daily. Lots are decorated veterans, one Kristen Beck was part of Seal Team 6. Typically they are straight vs part of the gay culture.

Jay Galt on September 30, 2014 at 9:27 PM

Transgender is a state of mind. Since they are not actually the opposite gender, it is at best a mental illness. Pretending it is actually real and not in the mind is not doing them a favor.

It’s not compassionate to pretend a boy is actually a girl, or vice versa.

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 1, 2014 at 11:27 PM

It’s not compassionate to pretend a boy is actually a girl, or vice versa.

There Goes the Neighborhood on October 1, 2014 at 11:27 PM

Indeed. It’s cruelty of the worst order. At best, you’re refusing to make the kid face the fact that he/she is in serious need of getting their head screwed on straight. More likely, you’re actively fueling their confusion and mental derailment that will not end well, guaranteed.

LawfulGood on October 1, 2014 at 11:44 PM

I see no reason that any faith should be supported by public dollars or on public land.

Tlaloc on October 1, 2014 at 10:32 PM

Then you do feel that ACLU and FFFF should launch similar lawsuits against public Islamic displays.

Star Bird on October 2, 2014 at 7:24 AM

This is all under the assumption that the alleged “Doctor” is accurate with the diagnosis….and we’ve never seen a “Doctor” make a mistake, even about something as simple as the health benefits of food. [is coffee, salt, bread, etc,etc good/bad for you?]

In the broad picture, I’d suggest that it’s better for a human to struggle with their thoughts…be it gender, religion or any number of other topics that make up the foundation of a man’s soul. As we all know, easy answers rarely if every create a strong foundation that can handle challenges.

Ricks Cafe on October 2, 2014 at 11:08 AM

But yeah, go on, let’s have a laugh about boys being boys and sneaking into locker rooms.

Unfortunately this is nothing to laugh about. Our children are being put in dangerous environments, physically, mentally, and emotionally. And the ones who are putting them there – who should know better – are the “adults” in the authoritative positions in the schools.

Let’s demonize people that feel physically uncomfortable in their own bodies, are social pariahs, and who have literally no advocates of note.

Every teenager feels uncomfortable in their own bodies and lives at some point. Telling them, and now demonstrating to them, that there is no right and wrong, no good and bad, no absolute truths, is only confusing them more. And attributing to a societal-induced form of mental illness.

You want to kick the kid with Down ’s syndrome too?
GYConservative on October 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM

Even kids with Down’s syndrome have the sense to know what sex they were born with – I.E. Their gender identity – and are smart enough to go into the correct bathroom.

Sterling Holobyte on October 3, 2014 at 4:21 PM