Scotland votes No to independence

posted at 8:01 am on September 19, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

If yesterday’s referendum in Scotland was the biggest party ever for Western democracy — with an 86% turnout and the whole world seemingly holding its collective breath — today is the hangover for all sides. The referendum went down to defeat by a much-larger margin than predicted, with roughly 55% of the vote rejecting independence in favor of the 307-year-old union. While the decision may not have been a surprise, as late polling showed the No vote regaining momentum, the decisiveness of the rejection may have put this question to rest for a very long time:

Given a historic chance to go it alone as an independent nation, Scottish voters early Friday chose to stick with the United Kingdom following a campaign that was marked by extraordinary turnout and profound division.

With the vast majority of the vote counted as of 6 a.m., the “no” side had built up an insurmountable advantage, with a 55-percent majority compared to 45 percent for the “yes” camp. Unionist leaders proclaimed that Scotland had voted to remain part of the United Kingdom. Supporters erupted in raucous celebration.

A “no” vote means new life for a 307-year union that had appeared in grave danger of breaking apart. The unionist victory was already being heralded early Friday by relieved British officials who had come perilously close to having to preside over a messy and humiliating divorce.

Instead, Britain was set to remain whole for the foreseeable future, and “yes” voters’ dream of an independent Scotland could be dead for a generation or more.

A ten-point loss doesn’t even qualify as a moral victory for Alex Salmond, who nonetheless tried to put the most upbeat spin he could find on the results. “This has been a triumph for the democratic process and for participation in politics,” Salmond proclaimed, but not for the project he has run for the last two years. The Scottish National Party leader will face plenty of questions about his stewardship of the campaign on an issue which has been boiling up for the last several years. James Kirkup poses a couple of them in the Telegraph:

Having fought for a Yes and lost, Mr Salmond has to decide how to respond to defeat. Does he, as he said before the vote, accept the result and accept that no fresh question can be asked about independence for a generation? Or does he question the tactics of Better Together and, by implication, the legitimacy of the result? He will also face questions about his plans to remain Scottish National Party leader, and whether he will seek re-election as First Minister in the Scottish Parliament elections in May 2016.

Answering the first questions are easy. Had it been a narrow loss, Salmond might have questioned the integrity of the result and demanded another and another referendum until he tired out the unionists altogether. The ten-point loss after victory seemed to be within their grasp pretty much discredits any attempt to delegitimize the result, as does the extraordinarily high turnout. The real questions will be about Salmond’s future after becoming the nationalist leader who booted the independence question. Perhaps the heartbroken Yes voters will be in a forgiving mood, but that seems unlikely.

The larger questions, though, will arise in London. British politicians from David Cameron on down wooed Scots by promising them more autonomy than they have now, which was certainly much less problematic than dissolving the union at the time they made those offers. Now the Scots will call in those pledges, and they’re not alone:

British Prime Minister David Cameron said the Scottish vote to remain in the United Kingdomhas put the question of independence to rest “for a generation,” but he pledged constitutional reforms to give Edinburgh greater control over its own affairs.

“There can be no disputes, no reruns – we have heard the settled will of the Scottish people,” Cameron said in a statement outside No. 10 Downing Street, his official residence, shortly after the results of the vote. …

“Scotland voted for a stronger Scottish Parliament backed by the strength and security of the United Kingdom, and I want to congratulate the No campaign for that – for showing people that our nations really are better together,” he said.

Cameron says he’s committed to giving Scotland new power over taxes, spending and welfare. He said he wants draft legislation by January, and that it should encompass other parts of the U.K. as well, not just Scotland, but Wales and Northern Ireland as well.

“We now have a chance — a great opportunity — to change the way the British people are governed, and change it for the better,” the prime minister said.

At the moment, though, no one has a specific plan to meet those pledges. Labour and Conservatives have differing approaches, and no one knows whether either will satisfy the Scots, or the Welsh, or the Northern Irish. The effort will be complicated — but success will be critical. If Cameron and Parliament do not deliver on these promises, then Salmond will have the perfect lever by which to revive the independence question, and any sense of betrayal on expedited devolution will produce a much different voter dynamic the next time this question gets posed. As Alex Cochrane writes at the Telegraph, this isn’t necessarily the end of the independence question — in fact, it might just be the end of Round One.


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Comments

Will Cameron be like obama……expiration dates?

cmsinaz on September 19, 2014 at 8:08 AM

Scotland, I am disappoint.

Ars Moriendi on September 19, 2014 at 8:10 AM

So the final disintegration of the British Empire is staved off for a few more years.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:10 AM

A Consitutional Convention, create a Federal government of sovereign States each having control and responsibility for their own citizens, taxes, spending, education, et al. A Federal government tying it all together with the common defense, foreign policy, immigration and border protection …

Could be a workable idea. I understand someone tried that here once upon a time until the jackass Liberals turned it on its head.

clippermiami on September 19, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Maybe Putin will find some Russian national in Scotland and cross the border to help them out?

Walter L. Newton on September 19, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Let’s keep in mind that this wasn’t really a referendum on independence. It was a petty vile socialist attempting to bring down the UK by preying on Scots’ deep-seated inclination toward nationalism. Had the yes faction prevailed the result would not have been anywhere close the the lies that Salmond has told throughout debate on this issue.

In the good old days, Salmond would be fleeing to Europe for attempting to foment an uprising. It is too bad that those days are gone.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:18 AM

Deport this guy to Scotland…

Rand Paul: Republicans Who Favor Voter ID Laws Make Party Look Racist…

http://weaselzippers.us/200113-rand-paul-republicans-who-favor-voter-id-laws-make-party-look-racist/

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 8:22 AM

Still like need the teet!

ManWithNoName on September 19, 2014 at 8:22 AM

Scotlandistan has voted lopped off enough heads to secure its continued unity with Great Caliphate.

/2030

mankai on September 19, 2014 at 8:23 AM

Someday the English muslims will rise up and demand “independence” and their own state, except they won’t take no for an answer.

Bishop on September 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM

Scotland isn’t a nation, it’s a British region like Wales or Cornwall. In their hearts a lot of Scots know this. The canny ones also know an independent Scotland would be a poorer weaker place and that Britain is worth keeping. Increase devolution by all means within the union. Such an outcome could have worked for Ireland too. That’s what Irish nationalists originally wanted but it failed due to Ulster Unionists who insisted on separating themselves from the Irish catholic majority with tragic results. Since creating Northern Ireland, “unionists” have embraced devolution fervently.

breffnian on September 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM

“They can take our lives but they can never take our freeeddoo….wait what?”

Bishop on September 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM

Someday the English muslims will rise up and demand “independence” and their own state, except they won’t take no for an answer.

Bishop on September 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM

Don’t call them violent or they will behead you.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:28 AM

Someday the English muslims will rise up and demand “independence” and their own state, except they won’t take no for an answer.

Bishop on September 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM

Nor will they enact change through a referendum.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:31 AM

Scotland isn’t a nation, it’s a British region like Wales or Cornwall.

breffnian on September 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM

Dude! Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland are countries. Cornwall is a county.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:34 AM

Nor will they enact change through a referendum.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:31 AM

Englandistan.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:35 AM

Let’s keep in mind that this wasn’t really a referendum on independence. It was a petty vile socialist attempting to bring down the UK by preying on Scots’ deep-seated inclination toward nationalism.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:18 AM

Whatever happened to Scotland? Such a gorgeous country, such a spirited people going down the sh*thole of socialism.

petefrt on September 19, 2014 at 8:35 AM

And I was so looking forward to the “FREE QUEBEC!” hype.

Jedditelol on September 19, 2014 at 8:39 AM

Englandistan.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:35 AM

Why in the hell would they keep the area named after an old Germanic tribe?

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:39 AM

A Consitutional Convention, create a Federal government of sovereign States each having control and responsibility for their own citizens, taxes, spending, education, et al. A Federal government tying it all together with the common defense, foreign policy, immigration and border protection …

Could be a workable idea. I understand someone tried that here once upon a time until the jackass Liberals turned it on its head.

clippermiami on September 19, 2014 at 8:13 AM

I don’t think the UK has a written constitution. That may be their problem. I would suggest a change to their political practices though. Get rid of the House of Lords, as it is, and replace it with a “senate type” chamber composed of members APPOINTED by the various elected governments of the UK. I think the Lords have been a stand-in for some of the functions of a republic. Maybe transforming to a true republic or republican monarchy would work better.

Old Country Boy on September 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM

And I was so looking forward to the “FREE QUEBEC!” hype.

Jedditelol on September 19, 2014 at 8:39 AM

Canada should call their bluff and say “fine.” Quebec wouldn’t know what to do with all that freedom.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:41 AM

Whatever happened to Scotland? Such a gorgeous country, such a spirited people going down the sh*thole of socialism.

petefrt on September 19, 2014 at 8:35 AM

What happened? Nothing unpredictable. Rise of the welfare state.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:42 AM

Why in the hell would they keep the area named after an old Germanic tribe?

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:39 AM

Ok, then call it palestine then. So that there (finally) is an actual country named that :)

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:42 AM

clippermiami on September 19, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Well, they certainly need to put some teeth in the “states provinces rights” part.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 8:42 AM

What happened? Nothing unpredictable. Rise of the welfare state.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:42 AM

There hasn’t been a Republic yet that didn’t succumb to “Bread and Circuses”.

Never would have happened to us had voting eligibility remained only male land owners.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

Ok, then call it palestine then. So that there (finally) is an actual country named that :)

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:42 AM

I like it!

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:45 AM

Never mind Scotland.

When does AMERICA get to vote on its independence from the United States of Welfare and GibsMeDat?

Maddie on September 19, 2014 at 8:46 AM

the decisiveness of the rejection may have put this question to rest for a very long time

this isn’t necessarily the end of the independence question — in fact, it might just be the end of Round One.

55-45 might be decisive in an ordinary election, but when nearly half your population doesn’t want the very paradigm of governance itself, this could be a problem. What will be interesting is the follow-up of the separatists. My gut is most of them are Che wanna-be’s. “Ohhh. Look at us, maaaan. We’re revolutionaries!” If we start seeing some violence, then maybe there is some passion in the movement. Otherwise, it seems more like an Occupy Wall Street fantasy come to life. “Then we’ll raise the taxes. Yeah! Then we’ll jail the bankers! Yeah! Then we’ll triple the minimum wage. Yeah! Hey, guys? Whose paying for all this? Boooo!”

dreadnought62 on September 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

Scotland isn’t a nation, it’s a British region like Wales or Cornwall.

breffnian on September 19, 2014 at 8:26 AM

Dude! Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland are countries. Cornwall is a county.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:34 AM

History isn’t breffnian’s strong suit.

Probably the Texan in me was sympathetic to the Yes vote…hoping a quick economic fail would eventually end the lefties in both countries.

The Brits offered the Scots more goodies to stay and now that looks like those promises are in doubt…

Scotland votes No to independence; Cameron promises English votes for English laws

“The Welsh Labour leader launched a stinging attack on Prime Minister David Cameron – accusing the Tory leader of almost “sleepwalking” the country into disaster over the way his Government handled the Scottish referendum.

Mr Jones – who two years ago called for a constitutional convention featuring all four home nations – said the devolved governments must sit down together with the UK Government for talks as soon possible.

Speaking to reporters, the First Minister said: “We cannot escape from the fact that the Prime Minister almost sleepwalked us into disaster last night.

“Discussions now need to be had for a constitutional future of the UK.

“The old Union we know is dead. We need to forge a new one, but no more committees, no more messing about, no more panicky deals – it’s time to sit together, all of us as four nations, and work this through.

“The UK has suffered a serious injury and a sticking plaster will not do.”

Former Welsh secretary and Neath MP Peter Hain – who helped extend the scope of Wales’s devolution with the 2006 Government of Wales Act while a Cabinet minister – said political parties had to accept there was a strong mandate for “greater federalism” in the UK.

He said: “For decades now the Celtic nations have been calling for greater devolution and the English regions like Cornwall and the North are reigniting their desire for greater autonomy.

“People throughout the UK will not stand for inertia from Whitehall and the House of Commons any longer.

“This referendum has woken up political engagement in the UK and that is something to be celebrated, it’s absolutely vital that we take heed of that but it’s what all of Britain, regardless of political creed, wants.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11106839/Scottish-independence-referendum-results-live.html

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 8:48 AM

dreadnought62 on September 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

Yeah, little difference between Alex Salmond and the OWS crowd.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM

Probably the Texan in me was sympathetic to the Yes vote…hoping a quick economic fail would eventually end the lefties in both countries.

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 8:48 AM

Being of Scottish heritage, I was emotionally in favor of independence but the practical reality is that it would have never worked the way that Salmond was laying out his version of a socialist utopia.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:53 AM

Probably the Texan in me was sympathetic to the Yes vote…

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 8:48 AM

Apples and oranges.

Sure Scotland has oil, but other than that, they have scotch whiskey…and scotch whiskey.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 8:54 AM

Someday the English muslims will rise up and demand “independence” and their own state, except they won’t take no for an answer.

Bishop on September 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM

They have one, it’s called Luton.

ExPat on September 19, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Sure Scotland has oil, but other than that, they have scotch whiskey…and scotch whiskey.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 8:54 AM

And sheep. Which would have voted for independence in high numbers had American Democrats been “helping” with the voting.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM

A Consitutional Convention, create a Federal government of sovereign States each having control and responsibility for their own citizens, taxes, spending, education, et al. A Federal government tying it all together with the common defense, foreign policy, immigration and border protection …

Could be a workable idea. I understand someone tried that here once upon a time until the jackass Liberals turned it on its head.

clippermiami on September 19, 2014 at 8:13 AM

I don’t think the UK has a written constitution. That may be their problem. I would suggest a change to their political practices though. Get rid of the House of Lords, as it is, and replace it with a “senate type” chamber composed of members APPOINTED by the various elected governments of the UK. I think the Lords have been a stand-in for some of the functions of a republic. Maybe transforming to a true republic or republican monarchy would work better.

Old Country Boy on September 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM

Correct…the UK doesn’t have a written constitution like ours…But there has been a political movement for years to write one but membership in the EU makes this a problemo.

info at link:
http://www.consoc.org.uk/other-content/about-us/discover-the-facts/what-is-the-british-constitution/

“David Cameron has boldly declared his determination to find a “decisive” solution to the West Lothian question.
But it is an ambition that might have been described by fictional mandarin Sir Humphrey Appleby as “courageous”.
The issue of whether MPs should be able to vote on matters that do not affect their constituents goes back nearly 130 years, when William Gladstone raised it during a debate on Irish Home Rule.
The dilemma became known as the “West Lothian question” after the Labour MP for the seat, Tam Dalyell, highlighted it during a debate on Scottish devolution in 1977.
But despite significant powers being handed to the Scottish parliament and assemblies in Wales and Northern Ireland since 1997, there has been no consensus on reforms for Westminster.

Labour’s former Lord Chancellor Derry Irvine pithily summed up the attitude of many in his party when he quipped that the best answer to the West Lothian question was not to ask it.
However, Conservatives – who traditionally hold sway in England – have been growing increasingly militant on the topic.
As early as 1999 William Hague, then party leader, was insisting that “English MPs should have exclusive say over English laws”.
Tory frustration intensified when Scottish votes were decisive in pushing through key Labour government policies such as student tuition fees – even though they did not apply north of the border.
A Conservative policy group headed by former chancellor Ken Clarke proposed in 2008 that Scottish MPs should be excluded from line-by-line consideration of Bills that do not affect them – although it stopped short of suggesting they should be barred from voting on the final legislation.
Former Clerk of the House of Commons Sir William McKay came forward with similar limited procedural changes last year after being commissioned by the coalition.
Ministers would be obliged to note whether there was an English majority for England-only legislation, but a lack of such a majority would not automatically kill the measures….”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11109102/William-Hague-what-next-for-the-UK-and-the-British-constitution.html

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM

There hasn’t been a Republic yet that didn’t succumb to “Bread and Circuses”.

Never would have happened to us had voting eligibility remained only male land owners.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

It can seem that way, but the land ownership rule is too easily messed with, and Woodrow Wilson was elected twice and the 16th Amendment passed before women got the vote.

What is doing us in, even with our Constitution specifically designed to prevent it, is the combination of continuing massive immigration far beyond what is healthy for the society (this explains Wilson and the Progressives, too) and the rise of the unmarried voter (government supplants the traditional family in importance to the individual).

Still, we’ve had a terrific run.

fadetogray on September 19, 2014 at 9:01 AM

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM

The sheep knew better. Nessie is pro-union and would have eaten them.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:04 AM

Probably the Texan in me was sympathetic to the Yes vote…hoping a quick economic fail would eventually end the lefties in both countries.

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 8:48 AM

Being of Scottish heritage, I was emotionally in favor of independence but the practical reality is that it would have never worked the way that Salmond was laying out his version of a socialist utopia.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:53 AM

Yeah…Salmond will likely be forced out?

Apples and oranges.

Sure Scotland has oil, but other than that, they have scotch whiskey…and scotch whiskey.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 8:54 AM

Sean Connery is bummed

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:05 AM

In the spirit behind independence for Scotland, I propose that the United States divest itself of all its terriories. Puerto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, etc. can sink or swim on their own!

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:06 AM

Just shows that at least 55% know from which side their welfare bread is buttered – the Brit taxpayer. I’ve seen our future and it’s…

vnvet on September 19, 2014 at 9:09 AM

While the decision may not have been a surprise, as late polling showed the No vote regaining momentum, the decisiveness of the rejection may have put this question to rest for a very long time

If our experience in Canada has taught us anything, this won’t be the last you hear about it. They’ll be taking the temperature of the people from time to time and calling a vote (using more ambiguous language) when they think conditions are favourable. This seems to be the strategy of Separatists up here.

LancerDL on September 19, 2014 at 9:09 AM

Other peoples money voters win every time.

docflash on September 19, 2014 at 9:10 AM

Sean Connery is bummed

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:05 AM

MI6 isn’t.

MI5 is ecstatic.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:06 AM

You left out Texas. They need to be cut loose first.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:12 AM

“Scotland voted for a stronger Scottish Parliament backed by the strength and security of the United Kingdom, and I want to congratulate the No campaign for that – for showing people that our nations really are better together,” he said.

Cameron says he’s committed to giving Scotland new power over taxes, spending and welfare. He said he wants draft legislation by January, and that it should encompass other parts of the U.K. as well, not just Scotland, but Wales and Northern Ireland as well.

This sounds like the only victory Salmond and the kook left really wanted. Independence would have quickly and painfully showed that they are nitwit leftists with worthwhile ideas. But this result — if effected — will allow them to continue their destructive behavior with the protection of Nanny.

A responsible UK will tightly tie Scotland’s future autonomy to fiscal results, a “reap what you sow” environment.

Jaibones on September 19, 2014 at 9:13 AM

What is doing us in, even with our Constitution specifically designed to prevent it, is the combination of continuing massive immigration far beyond what is healthy for the society (this explains Wilson and the Progressives, too) and the rise of the unmarried voter (government supplants the traditional family in importance to the individual).

Still, we’ve had a terrific run.

fadetogray on September 19, 2014 at 9:01 AM

What is doing us in is the progressive progression of european solutions through adopting a phony euro style class system to promote the socialist agenda.

Since the progressives can’t win the philosophical argument and they are in a hurry they’ve imported their class struggle from Latin America etc.

The Progressive moon bats seek to fundamentally alter the character of America by dumbing down the citizenry and displacing the natives demographically with more ignorant serfs who have never experienced a political system uncorrupted by the ancient european class corruption.

This is why Americans continue to support a Fascist like Obama…They are ignorant…

“Only 36 percent of Americans can name the three branches of government”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/09/18/only-36-percent-of-americans-can-name-the-three-branches-of-government/

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:15 AM

A federation approach such as the United States has allowing a great deal of discretion at the State level has worked well for the US and Britain could well benefit from moving in that direction. Had there been a confederation with the Colonies having a vote in the National Parliament but largely autonomy over their domestic affairs, there might not have been a Revolution and Britain would still be the world’s dominant power.

KW64 on September 19, 2014 at 9:18 AM

Sean Connery is bummed

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:05 AM

MI6 isn’t.

MI5 is ecstatic.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

Connery lives in Tax Exile…and I don’t think he voted

As to the Nuke bases…I wouldn’t be surprised if plans are drawn up to maybe find another location…just in case?

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:18 AM

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:18 AM

Faslane has a certain ring to it that I don’t think can be replicated somewhere else.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:21 AM

In the spirit behind independence for Scotland, I propose that the United States divest itself of all its terriories. Puerto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, etc. can sink or swim on their own!

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:06 AM

You left out Texas. They need to be cut loose first.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:12 AM

Indeed!

God Bless Texas!

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM

“Only 36 percent of Americans can name the three branches of government”

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:15 AM

I’m guessing more would be able to list all the Kardashians and match them with their assorted baby daddies and various hangers on.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM

Faslane has a certain ring to it that I don’t think can be replicated somewhere else.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:21 AM

I think the Brits will make the Scots pay for their cheeky referendum and for stirring up the Welsh etc.

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:24 AM

You left out Texas. They need to be cut loose first.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:12 AM

I only mention US territories, not the places belonging to other countries- in this case Mexico. ;0

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:24 AM

“Only 36 percent of Americans can name the three branches of government”

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:15 AM

I’m guessing more would be able to list all the Kardashians and match them with their assorted baby daddies and various hangers on.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM

An ignorant citizenry is an easily manipulated citizenry.

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:26 AM

As to the Nuke bases…I wouldn’t be surprised if plans are drawn up to maybe find another location…just in case?

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:18 AM

The reason why the British nuclear subs are in Scotland has to do with geography more than anything else. Hard to be stealthy when you have to transit on the surface through the English Channel.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:27 AM

You left out Texas. They need to be cut loose first.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:12 AM

I only mention US territories, not the places belonging to other countries- in this case Mexico. ;0

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:24 AM

El Presidente’ of Mexico is po’ed at Gov. Perry putting national guard on the border…and Texans could give a bucket of spit about El Presidente’s butt hurt

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:24 AM

I don’t. But we’ll see.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM

He was so PO’ed he did more than 0bama and holder to cut down on the central American transients.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:35 AM

As to the Nuke bases…I wouldn’t be surprised if plans are drawn up to maybe find another location…just in case?

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:18 AM

The reason why the British nuclear subs are in Scotland has to do with geography more than anything else. Hard to be stealthy when you have to transit on the surface through the English Channel.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 9:27 AM

True

http://news.usni.org/2014/09/16/royal-navy-faced-tough-choices-scotland-leaves-u-k

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:38 AM

I don’t. But we’ll see.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM

I guess we will.

Conservatives are already pounding Cameron for those extravagant promises…

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM

He was so PO’ed he did more than 0bama and holder to cut down on the central American transients.

cozmo on September 19, 2014 at 9:35 AM

Mexico and Guatemala are united in demographic dumping…but Mexico needs to re-build their crumbling infrastructure especially PEMEX.

Poised for an economic boom.

Of course they can always go Chinese?

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:46 AM

Exclusive: Angry with Washington, 1 in 4 Americans open to secession

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-usa-secession-exclusive-idUSKBN0HE19U20140919

workingclass artist on September 19, 2014 at 9:50 AM

UhOh…you’ve done it now Scotland

Queen Rips “Scottish Bastards” in Angry Televised Address

/Sarc

kcewa on September 19, 2014 at 9:53 AM

Not that it matters but can someone please explain to me why the Washington Post and a California Public Radio station is being linked to for news on vote in the UK about Scotland?

Rocks on September 19, 2014 at 10:33 AM

Whatever happened to Scotland? Such a gorgeous country, such a spirited people going down the sh*thole of socialism.

petefrt on September 19, 2014 at 8:35 AM

I only know one Scot — a good friend who has been here longer now than he lived there. But his politics are hilarious — he is right at home among our kook left. It’s apparently baked in the cake there now.

Jaibones on September 19, 2014 at 10:38 AM

As Alex Cochrane writes at the Telegraph, this isn’t necessarily the end of the independence question — in fact, it might just be the end of Round One.

I don’t buy this either. The Yes vote was sufficiently low that they can pretty much ignore the provinces now. They will pass a bunch of high sounding laws, which they will ignore. Power doesn’t devolve, it accrues. How many powers has Washington devolved to the states in the last 200 years? Bureaucrats are there to make rules for everybody. They love doing it. Why would they ever give up that power willingly?

Rocks on September 19, 2014 at 10:40 AM

Labour and Conservatives have differing approaches, and no one knows whether either will satisfy the Scots, or the Welsh, or the Northern Irish.

At some point, the English might want to have more control of English matters and reduce the influence of Scottish, Welsh, and Irish MPs on England’s laws and life.

That will be the real lasting impact of this two year campaign.

lexhamfox on September 19, 2014 at 10:51 AM

I don’t think the UK has a written constitution. That may be their problem.
Old Country Boy on September 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM

Hey – ya know – that’s a pretty good idea.
Maybe that’s our problem too.
Maybe we could also use one of those constitution thingies you be talkin bout….

dentarthurdent on September 19, 2014 at 10:58 AM

William Wallace Weeps.

KirknBurker on September 19, 2014 at 11:04 AM

Salmond just resigned.

lexhamfox on September 19, 2014 at 11:11 AM

Whatever happened to Scotland? Such a gorgeous country, such a spirited people going down the sh*thole of socialism.

petefrt on September 19, 2014 at 8:35 AM

England happened. /snarkyScottishheritage

RblDiver on September 19, 2014 at 11:59 AM

If those 16 and 17 year old voters had’t been allowed to vote then this yes referendum would have gotten probably no more than 35% tops. A poll conducted showed that they voted yes 78%. This is no surprise as young skulls full of mush tend to vote left. What genius thought it would be otherwise. After following the BBC yesterday into the wee hours and listening to the whining this morning from the yes voters I’m evenore happy the no vote won. What is really sad to see is that Obama style politics have made their way across the pond. These yes fanatics are vile, smug, self important…in other words typical liberals. Now its up to Cameron to do as he has promised or these yes loons will have his head. I would hate to be a conservative in todays Scotland. This country leans so far left I’m surprised that they all haven’t fallen into the sea.

neyney on September 19, 2014 at 12:00 PM

If those 16 and 17 year old voters had’t been allowed to vote then this yes referendum would have gotten probably no more than 35% tops. A poll conducted showed that they voted yes 78%.
neyney on September 19, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Have a source for this? I was actually under the opposite impression, that the 16/17 yo’s were mostly voting No.

RblDiver on September 19, 2014 at 12:25 PM

So, what?

Galtian on September 19, 2014 at 1:20 PM

Salmond just resigned.

lexhamfox on September 19, 2014 at 11:11 AM

He’ll be in a hot place.

There’s independence and there are shenanigans.

Schadenfreude on September 19, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Doesn’t surprise me because like here a large percentage of the Scots are on the dole and Scotland at this point is short on businesses and income, so they take the “safe” road which is merely slavery by any other name. I had hoped the smart Scots would have won. Too bad, Scotland, that you fought England for so many years and now you just go back to the hand that feeds you buts does not free you.

Roselle on September 19, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Considering how many wars, over decades if not centuries, it took for the English to annex Scotland, it will take more than one vote to get the nationalists to back down.

A federation approach such as the United States has allowing a great deal of discretion at the State level has worked well for the US and Britain could well benefit from moving in that direction. Had there been a confederation with the Colonies having a vote in the National Parliament but largely autonomy over their domestic affairs, there might not have been a Revolution and Britain would still be the world’s dominant power.

KW64 on September 19, 2014 at 9:18 AM

The colonists just couldn’t seem to convince the King and his cabal that was really all they wanted, in the beginning.

(1) There hasn’t been a Republic yet that didn’t succumb to “Bread and Circuses”.

(2) Never would have happened to us had voting eligibility remained only male land owners.

ConstantineXI on September 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

(1) is true; (2) not so much.

It can seem that way, but the land ownership rule is too easily messed with, and Woodrow Wilson was elected twice and the 16th Amendment passed before women got the vote.

What is doing us in, even with our Constitution specifically designed to prevent it, is the combination of continuing massive immigration far beyond what is healthy for the society (this explains Wilson and the Progressives, too) and the rise of the unmarried voter (government supplants the traditional family in importance to the individual).

AND the rise of the unlimited welfare state.

Still, we’ve had a terrific run.

fadetogray on September 19, 2014 at 9:01 AM

The course is not finished quite yet – we may get a few more years; however —

Someday the English muslims will rise up and demand “independence” and their own state, except they won’t take no for an answer.

Bishop on September 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM

Nor will they enact change through a referendum.

Happy Nomad on September 19, 2014 at 8:31 AM

I fear you may be right, and not just in the UK.

AesopFan on September 19, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Have a source for this? I was actually under the opposite impression, that the 16/17 yo’s were mostly voting No.

RblDiver on September 19, 2014 at 12:25 PM

It was mentioned by one of the commentators on this mornings BBC4 debate radio show I was streaming over my phone.

neyney on September 19, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Get rid of the House of Lords, as it is, and replace it with a “senate type” chamber composed of members APPOINTED by the various elected governments of the UK. I think the Lords have been a stand-in for some of the functions of a republic. Maybe transforming to a true republic or republican monarchy would work better.

Old Country Boy on September 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM

No institution is flawless but the House of Lords is (or was until the Labour party gutted it a few years ago) the only part of the British government that still did its job more or less properly.

It is the House of Commons that needs drastic reform.

YiZhangZhe on September 19, 2014 at 2:50 PM

Sad that the people that gave us Adam Smith and the great minds of the Scottish Enlightenment are now predominately socialist…

telmah on September 19, 2014 at 6:16 PM

If those 16 and 17 year old voters had’t been allowed to vote then this yes referendum would have gotten probably no more than 35% tops. A poll conducted showed that they voted yes 78%. This is no surprise as young skulls full of mush tend to vote left.

neyney on September 19, 2014 at 12:00 PM

True.

And if you had also excluded Scots who receive some sort of welfare benefits, the “Yes” vote would have topped out in the teens or single digits.

Americans of Scottish descent who think this was some sort of broad nationalistic pride movement are completed mistaken. This was a vanity project from the far left of Scottish politics.

Besides, the idea of a Scottish nation state is absurd. Don’t take your history lessons from Hollywood movies (Braveheart or Rob Roy are some of the worst offenders when it comes to historical inaccuracies).

Norwegian on September 19, 2014 at 6:41 PM