Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

posted at 2:01 pm on August 25, 2014 by Noah Rothman

At a Pentagon briefing last Friday, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, spoke about the threat posed by ISIS in the clearest possible terms.

“It is possible to contain them,” Dempsey warned. “They can be contained, but not in perpetuity.”

“This is an organization that has an apocalyptic, end-of-days strategic vision which will eventually have to be defeated,” he continued.

No ambiguity there. America’s present strategy designed to roll back ISIS in Iraq, while enjoying some near-terms successes, will face rapidly diminishing returns soon. Moreover, as Dempsey warned, the threat posed by this group is great enough to merit a more comprehensive strategy designed to not merely combat but to defeat ISIS forever.

Well, not so fast. With reports indicating that President Barack Obama’s administration has concluded that striking ISIS inside their Syrian stronghold is necessary and the only debate is over the scope of the operation, Dempsey warned on Monday that mounting airstrikes in Syria is a bad idea.

Via NBC News:

Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that he would recommend against American airstrikes on ISIS in Syria because there is no evidence that ISIS is involved in “active plotting against the homeland” or Europe. In remarks to reporters aboard a U.S. military aircraft headed to Afghanistan, Dempsey said: “I can tell you with great clarity and certainty that if that threat existed inside Syria that it would certainly be my strong recommendation that we would deal with it.”

As he did last week, Dempsey emphasized that dismantling ISIS must be a multinational effort, with cooperation from Arab countries. Any assault on ISIS, he said, must come “from multiple directions in order to initially disrupt and eventually defeat them. It has to happen with them, much less with us.”

Dempsey’s statement that ISIS does not present a threat to the homeland seems in conflict with his assertion that the group must be defeated, presumably by American military might. Speaking to reporters without attribution, Western officials paint an entirely different picture of the threat ISIS poses to American and European interests.

A Yahoo News report from the 15th defines the threat:

Concerns about terrorism spilling over from Syria and Iraq hit home in June when French police arrested an “armed jihadi” who had just returned from Syria in connection with the May 24 killing of four people — including two Israeli tourists — at a Jewish Center in Brussels.

Since then, authorities in Europe have broken up terror cells linked to ISIL, including one in Kosovo where officials this week arrested 40 suspects who had returned from Iraq and Syria—including some who had fought with ISIL — and seized weapons and explosives in dozens of locations.

ISIL and its followers have also proven adept at using social media, making a steady barrage of threats against the West, including the United States.

On a day when the administration is floating trial balloons about opening up a second front against ISIS in Syria, it seems odd for Dempsey to come out publicly against such a strategy.


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This admin. is all frucked up and derelict.

The reality of ISIS had shocked them into inaction.

All the dead souls by ISIS are on obama.

He dithered for weeks, the JV-king.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:05 PM

“It is possible to contain them,” Dempsey warned. “They can be contained, but not in perpetuity.”

What the oaf in chief said.

“This is an organization that has an apocalyptic, end-of-days strategic vision which will eventually have to be defeated,” he continued.

Reality

They should have been made glass when their convoys first left Syria.

obama’s legacy will be the US open borders and ISIS, which are now one and the same.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:06 PM

“It is possible to contain them,” Dempsey warned. “They can be contained, but not in perpetuity.”

What the oaf in chief said.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Dempsey strikes me as too much of a political tool.

Bitter Clinger on August 25, 2014 at 2:08 PM

A cup of stupid dipped from the river of stupid currently flooding washington. Where’s a drought when you need one?

Diluculo on August 25, 2014 at 2:08 PM

“It is possible to contain them,” Dempsey warned. “They can be contained, but not in perpetuity.”

If the Orkin Man said that to me, I’d fire him.

BobMbx on August 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM

I would bet some of these arab gov’ts are in secret talks w/ Israel about helping out. they have a competent enough military and 0bama has shown he wont do anything.

chasdal on August 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM

The American right has now officially come out as Assad supporters.
 
verbaluce on September 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM

 
So you’re officially siding with who again?
 
rogerb on September 11, 2013 at 1:22 PM

 

Tell us which side you and the left are supporting today, verbaluce.
 
rogerb on September 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM

 

Never answered for some strange reason.
 
rogerb on September 12, 2013 at 8:04 AM

 
Must’ve been off topic or something.

rogerb on August 25, 2014 at 2:10 PM

Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

Well it looks like somebody didn’t learn the need to stay away from drawing red lines. But you know what gets rid of red lines? Chlorine gas.

Happy Nomad on August 25, 2014 at 2:11 PM

This is because they are still clinging to some pipe dream there are “moderates” in Syria. It’s garbage. If we bomb in Syria it’s as good as saying we are fine with Assad. You know what? Compared to ISIS, we are fine with Assad. Sorry “moderate” Syrian rebels.

Rocks on August 25, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Must’ve been off topic or something.

rogerb on August 25, 2014 at 2:10 PM

Give him a chance, as I hear it’s really, really hard to type with his head so far up his rectum that his hair causes his throat to itch.

Diluculo on August 25, 2014 at 2:12 PM

“This is an organization that has an apocalyptic, end-of-days strategic vision which will eventually have to be defeated,” he continued.

He’s just described every Muslim on the planet. So…?

WhatSlushfund on August 25, 2014 at 2:13 PM

It’s about time to start treating national lines the way they do…more like guidelines.

Want to shelter jihadists in your “nation” while they pursue pan-Arabic or global caliphate notions? Tough luck.

Sgt Steve on August 25, 2014 at 2:14 PM

“This is an organization that has an apocalyptic, end-of-days strategic vision which will eventually have to be defeated,” he continued.

He’s just described every Muslim on the planet. So…?

WhatSlushfund on August 25, 2014 at 2:13 PM

What he means there is that eventually America will be led by conservatives again, they’ll fix the problem. Meanwhile….tee time!

Diluculo on August 25, 2014 at 2:15 PM

ISIS has a friend in the Oval Office – they won’t be defeated any time soon.

Pork-Chop on August 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Teddy bears are the answer.

faraway on August 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM

President Jarrett took Dempsey to the woodshed over the weekend for his remarks Friday. He has his new talking points.

novaculus on August 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Maybe this was why Al Nushra (sp) gave back the journalist yesterday? So we would not randomly bomb around Syria? Negotiated through Qatar?

djl130 on August 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM

You would think that even the Obama administration (Dempsey included) would recognize that ISIS is one organization that rises above the administrations love of nuance.

MTF on August 25, 2014 at 2:17 PM

The oaf in chief got to him.

The land is scroomed and doomed.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:17 PM

The American right has now officially come out as Assad supporters.

verbaluce on September 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM

So you’re officially siding with who again?

rogerb on September 11, 2013 at 1:22 PM

You are brilliant. Please keep it up.

corkie on August 25, 2014 at 2:18 PM

My understanding is that Dempsey is basically another Wesley Clark (an incompetent pampered prince in place because of politics and not ability) without Clark’s (past) desire for elected office.

He fits in well with the incompetents that comprise the balance of Obama’s National Security team – hence the mixed messages as he attempts to dance between the demands of reality and the naive political expediency demanded by the semi-retired completely lame duck sociopathic narcissist in chief.

Athos on August 25, 2014 at 2:18 PM

Wouldn’t it be smart to hit ISIS in their strongpoints rather than erasing a Toyota technical here and a couple of wandering dudes there?

A $60,000 Hellfire missile used to ice four guys in a truck seems like a bad bargain, if we’re going to drop things on people then we should drop big things on big groups of people and get the maximum bang for our buck.

Bishop on August 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM

“It is possible to contain them,” Dempsey warned. “They can be contained, but not in perpetuity.”

Bah. Typical babble. Perpetuity is irrelevant.

Apparently, you don’t want to destroy them if you don’t want to go into Syria. So you are saying you want to contain them in Syria. How long can you contain them in Syria and how will you do that with the five countries and a sea bordering Syria?

And what does contain mean? That they can’t escape Syria at all; in force greater than 3 fighters on a suicide mission in Europe or the USA; 50 to 100 men at a time in forays to pillage or attack Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey or Iraq; or lastly large groups to take over Lebanon or Jordan?

Does contain mean that you’ll cut of the flow of budding ISIS members such that their forces don’t double or triple?

If we have to eventually destroy them but you talk only in terms of containing them, are you saying we don’t have the capability to destroy them now? If we don’t then why don’t we? If we do, then why don’t we?

Dusty on August 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM

Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

A third rate hotel doorman masquerading as a general and not doing a very good job of it at all.

VorDaj on August 25, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Dempsey spoke the truth and let his mouth overload his butt. He obviously has been kicked to the curb and told to toe the Party line or lose his shiny stars and many perks. The molds for Billy Mitchell, Singlaub, Patton, Macarthur, Brady and other of their courageous stature have obviously been broken and destroyed. Dempsey epitomizes the new military careerism.

rplat on August 25, 2014 at 2:24 PM

If we do, then why don’t we?

Dusty on August 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM

The SCOMAF redefined his doctrine about 10 days ago when he announced, ‘No victor and no vanquished’ as being a cornerstone of his approach towards ISIL in Iraq.

Athos on August 25, 2014 at 2:24 PM

+1 schadenfreude. On the first post

cmsinaz on August 25, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Dipsey Dempsey in 1942: We must defeat Germany but we must not strike them in Europe.We must defeat Japan but we must not strike them in the Pacific.

VorDaj on August 25, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

Did this idiot learn nothing from every war since Korea about political restrictions on our own rules of engagement and giving the enemy a safe zone to hide just across the border when necessary?

This guy is clearly a politician and not a real warfighter.

dentarthurdent on August 25, 2014 at 2:27 PM

If the Orkin Man said that to me, I’d fire him.

BobMbx on August 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM

Bravo.

rplat on August 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM

I don’t think the world can take much more of this “Obama SMART Power!!!!1111!!!!1111elebinty”

I’m also beginning to think this Obama chap might just be way in over his competence level. Even thinking that he may not be as smart as he thinks he is and only thinks that way because the people around him are even less intelligent.

jukin3 on August 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM

The SCOMAF redefined his doctrine about 10 days ago when he announced, ‘No victor and no vanquished’ as being a cornerstone of his approach towards ISIL in Iraq.

Athos on August 25, 2014 at 2:24 PM

Apparently our new motto is “We play for the tie.”

dentarthurdent on August 25, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Patton would slap Dipsey Dempsey to kingdom come.

VorDaj on August 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM

If this is what they teach at Army War College now, I may have to give my souvenir shirt to Goodwill.

(Disclaimer: I did not attend Army War College – just went to a week-long conference there once and bought a souvenir shirt.)

dentarthurdent on August 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM

This is a complete reversal. Dempsey didn’t just say that ISIS had to be defeated, he said we couldn’t defeat them without hitting them in Syria:

“Can they be defeated without addressing that part of the organization that resides in Syria? The answer is no.”

rcpjr on August 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM

Patton would slap Dipsey Dempsey to kingdom come before a firing squad.

VorDaj on August 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM

VorDaj on August 25, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that he would recommend against American airstrikes on ISIS in Syria because there is no evidence that ISIS is involved in “active plotting against the homeland” or Europe. In remarks to reporters aboard a U.S. military aircraft headed to Afghanistan, Dempsey said: “I can tell you with great clarity and certainty that if that threat existed inside Syria that it would certainly be my strong recommendation that we would deal with it.”

Dempsey is by far the worst US general in the last 100 years…

mnjg on August 25, 2014 at 2:34 PM

“ISIS is going to be one of Obama’s greatest achievements!”
Joe Biden

I’m afraid this one is true as far as Obama and ValJar thinking goes.

jukin3 on August 25, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

Or perhaps using a strategy from another time
Fight them in the North but not in Laos.

Gwillie on August 25, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Hagel and Dempsey…fighting for the dumbest man in room title.

d1carter on August 25, 2014 at 2:37 PM

Scorched Earth.

That is the coming way of warfare, nothing less will be victory. No need for peace treaties, negotiations, none of that. A dead enemy is not only a quiet enemy, but is also a pretty cooperative enemy as they tend to stay quiet and dead.

This administration will not adopt this actual WIN type scenario of course. When this country decides we want peace, true and lasting, we will employ scorched Earth in the middle east. When we are finished, there will be an added bonus of russia and china finally shutting the f*ck up. They are not ready to suffer scorched Earth, and will assist in stamping out the islamic plague on humanity in order to further along the lasting peace.

Diluculo on August 25, 2014 at 2:38 PM

General McClellan is smiling. So is Goebbels.

jukin3 on August 25, 2014 at 2:40 PM

don’t strike them in Syria

Where? Chicago?

MaiDee on August 25, 2014 at 2:41 PM

How ’bout south Texas….?

d1carter on August 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

don’t strike them in Syria
Where? Chicago?

MaiDee on August 25, 2014 at 2:41 PM

I say we hit them at the Mexican border…. but they won’t do that either.

dentarthurdent on August 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

So… ISIS takes a major airbase in Syria… as the Kurds liberate a number of towns in the eastern part of Syria from ISIS hands… and we want to stop ISIS just not, you know, in Syria?

Hmmm… the Charlie-Foxtrot is an awful popular dance in DC these days.

Mind you, if we play our cards just right, screw up in just enough of the right ways, then ISIS will eliminate the Assad regime right around the time the Kurds are eliminating ISIS… the old ‘lets you and him fight’ sort of deal. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy and nothing more, and they deserve each other.

The Obama Administration: fuddling its way towards common sense but never able to get there.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

In Syria ISIS is our friend because DC’s jihad-supporting cronies in the ME want to build a pipeline through Syria. In Iraq ISIS is our enemy because DC’s domestic cronies want to feed the military industrial complex. And corrupt DC politicians want a war to distract the American people from their corruption and profligacy here at home.

FloatingRock on August 25, 2014 at 2:47 PM

The American right has now officially come out as Assad supporters.

verbaluce on September 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM

Oh verbie, we knew all along that obama/Hillary/Kerry were such fools. Wake up. We didn’t make up the fact that now obama/Kerry/Dempsey are forced to be allied with Iran/Russia/Syria, because ISIS are way worse than the bad Assad.

SmartPower ain’t that smart, as Putin told him a time ago…er…

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:50 PM

The American right has now officially come out as Assad supporters.

verbaluce on September 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM

Assad’s Syria is more pluralistic and modern than your head-chopping jihad-supporting “allies” in Saudi Arabia.

FloatingRock on August 25, 2014 at 2:54 PM

Need some help please. Would someone be kind enough to tell me when the joint chief was given the authority to decide when and where American military power will be used? Thanks

datrashman on August 25, 2014 at 2:55 PM

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:50 PM

Heck the locals are saying that ISIS is worse than Genghis Khan, which makes them worse than the US military… a topic that Kerry knows scads about because he testified about it and all that stuff. Why it might almost make him take back what he said in the ’70s… although that would require character and integrity, two things sadly lacking in the Sec State.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:56 PM

The American right has now officially come out as Assad supporters.

verbaluce on September 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM

Embracing fascist dictators remains the purview of this nation’s left.

But keep up the projection – I can use more laughs.

Athos on August 25, 2014 at 2:57 PM

BREAKING: Suspect in James Foley’s Killing… British-Born Rapper Who Joined ISIS (SHOCK)

OmahaConservative on August 25, 2014 at 2:17 PM

OC, the bigger news are that his dad is on trial, in the USA for the Clinton era dual embassy bombings. He’s a militant of the first rate…silence from Hillary…

Plus, this kid was hardened by an imam in GB.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 2:59 PM

Need some help please. Would someone be kind enough to tell me when the joint chief was given the authority to decide when and where American military power will be used? Thanks

datrashman on August 25, 2014 at 2:55 PM

In The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension! The SecDef pulled it out to deal with the menace of the Red Lectroids… ‘Declaration of War – The Short Form’.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:59 PM

Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

Yeah, instead, strike them in L.A.

Ward Cleaver on August 25, 2014 at 3:02 PM

In The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension! The SecDef pulled it out to deal with the menace of the Red Lectroids… ‘Declaration of War – The Short Form’.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:59 PM

“Hey man, nice jacket!”

Ward Cleaver on August 25, 2014 at 3:03 PM

although that would require character and integrity, two things sadly lacking in the Sec State.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:56 PM

The talking horse is full of crap.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 3:04 PM

I note that our resident clownshow Obama a$$licking troll crapweasels are conspicuously absent today.

Midas on August 25, 2014 at 3:10 PM

In The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension! The SecDef pulled it out to deal with the menace of the Red Lectroids… ‘Declaration of War – The Short Form’.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:59 PM

“Hey man, nice jacket!”

Ward Cleaver on August 25, 2014 at 3:03 PM

“‘Cause remember, no matter where you go… there you are.”

Midas on August 25, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Any assault on ISIS, he said, must come “from multiple directions in order to initially disrupt and eventually defeat them. It has to happen with them, much less with us.”

Evidently Dempsey believes in “leading from behind”.

GarandFan on August 25, 2014 at 3:15 PM

I note that our resident clownshow Obama a$$licking troll crapweasels are conspicuously absent today.

Midas on August 25, 2014 at 3:10 PM

Must be tough to be them.

Schadenfreude on August 25, 2014 at 3:16 PM

I feel much safer now.

talkingpoints on August 25, 2014 at 3:22 PM

In The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension! The SecDef pulled it out to deal with the menace of the Red Lectroids… ‘Declaration of War – The Short Form’.

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 2:59 PM

“Hey man, nice jacket!”

Ward Cleaver on August 25, 2014 at 3:03 PM

“‘Cause remember, no matter where you go… there you are.”

Midas on August 25, 2014 at 3:14 PM

“John Bigbootey…”

“Big Bootay! Big Bootay!”

ajacksonian on August 25, 2014 at 3:29 PM

Martin Dempsey: ISIS must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria

Smart power.

and probably further proof of the Peter Principle.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM

RE: Army General Martin Dempsey

It’s hard to take someone who looks like Johnny Carson seriously!

…Especially when what he is proposing sounds like a joke!!

landlines on August 25, 2014 at 3:35 PM

ISIS The Viet Cong must be ‘defeated,’ but don’t strike them in Syria Cambodia

Hmmm, sounds familiar.

Occams Stubble on August 25, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Where’s Petraeus?

OK, he fooled around with Paula BroadInTheBeam, but he was willing to act.

formwiz on August 25, 2014 at 4:11 PM

don’t strike them in Syria
Where? Chicago?

MaiDee on August 25, 2014 at 2:41 PM

If they really want to destroy Isis, they need to strike the places where their financing originates…and it ain’t Syria. One place is somewhere on the Arabian Peninsula and the other is around where Jubal Early scared the bejeezus out of Lincoln late in the war.

But I’m not 100% sure where those places actually are.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 25, 2014 at 4:21 PM

What would “Mad Dog” Mattis do???

Hipshot on August 25, 2014 at 4:24 PM

If they really want to destroy Isis,
Dr. ZhivBlago on August 25, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Of course that part right there is the fundamental problem.
King Putt doesn’t really want to destroy ISIS, or Hamas, or the Taliban, or any other Muslim terrorist group.

dentarthurdent on August 25, 2014 at 4:47 PM

The Democrat Media has been desperately trying to keep it quiet, but the White House sent NO representatives to Sunday’s memorial service for O’bama’s “good friend” “Jim” Foley here in New Hampshire.

This despite the fact that New Hampshire’s (Democrat) Governor has announced all flags in our state to be flown at half staff in Foley’s memory.

However-the White House did have the resources to send 3 representatives to today’s race-baiting media circus in Missouri.

Shows where their true priorities are…certainly not with protecting national security…

Del Dolemonte on August 25, 2014 at 6:34 PM

Hipshot on August 25, 2014 at 4:24 PM
Best Flag officer I’ve ever worked for. Is without a doubt the best combat commander the United States has produced in the last 50 years. At times taking what might be reckless positions, but would be tactically sound after first contact. To call him brilliant would be a gross understatement. To give an example, during Iraq freedom my unit was operating 20 miles in front of the main forces. Our mission was to engage and kill any Iraq forces that could compromise the movement of our Marines engaging the main Iraq forces. We ran into a ambush. My fault, I was in too much of a hurry. We were pinned, so I called for a air strike. But out of nowhere came a fleet of hummers shooting it up, and out flanking them in a instance. Out of first hummer pops General Mattis. Comes up to me,”You alright Flacky”. I nod. Mattis turns to go back to his hummer, pauses. Looks at me, with a sly smile and says, “don’t let the COMEF know I was here.” With that, he got back in his hummer and roared off. We just stared shaking our heads. Hell of a man. Hell of a Marine.(Oh, the commanding officer of the 1st MEF was General Conway, future CMC of the USMC.)

flackcatcher on August 25, 2014 at 7:05 PM

Why would anyone join the military with dipshits like Hagel and Dempsey running things. A disgrace. They should be on Martha’s Vineyard riding girly bicycles with their girly helmets fastened tight.

they lie on August 25, 2014 at 7:15 PM

flackcatcher on August 25, 2014 at 7:05 PM

Everytime I listen to or see this guy he inspires me.
I am not a Marine, just an old pi$$ed off cowboy, It is criminal what barky did to General Mattis. You waste that kind of talent at your peril.
ISIS would be no match for this guy,

Semper Fi Marine

Hipshot on August 25, 2014 at 8:13 PM

Forget it, not under Obama. It will never happen.

jpcpt03 on August 25, 2014 at 8:48 PM

Hipshot on August 25, 2014 at 8:13 PM
What General Mattis did can never be taken away. He is a living legend, and for good reason. But, we are a Representative Republic. The American voters elected Obama for two terms. By the second election there was no mistake about what he was. The United States Military serves the Constitution and Bill of Rights though it’s elected Representatives. For better and worse, Obama is Commander in Chief of the United States Arm Forces for the rest of his term(unless he resigns). That is who General Mattis served. That is who I serve. That is who CJCS General Martin Dempsey serves. The next time, I hope people who go into the voting booth will remember that as well.

flackcatcher on August 25, 2014 at 9:07 PM

I guess armchair General Dempsey is keeping us all guessing … nobody knows what he is saying.

virgo on August 25, 2014 at 9:42 PM