Ferguson curfew ends after only one night (new video added)

posted at 9:31 am on August 17, 2014 by Jazz Shaw

The overnight news out of Ferguson leaves the viewer with some hard work to find a positive spin on it. Yesterday, Governor Jay Nixon announced that there would be a curfew in place from midnight until 5 in the morning until peace was restored to the town. Well, that lasted exactly one night and the curfew is no more. While the order may have kept those inclined toward law and order indoors, others took to the streets resulting in seven arrests and (the last thing we needed to hear at this point) a shooting.

A person is fighting for his life in Ferguson, Missouri, just hours after a curfew was imposed in order to bring calm to a city that’s seen a week of protests and sporadic looting.

Police say one male was shot and seven people were arrested in the city where the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager has sparked days of unrest…

Police have no information on the shooter, Johnson said, but added that there was a person in the street with a handgun and a police car was shot at.

There don’t seem to be any solid estimates of how many people were out in the streets in violation of the curfew, but the interaction with law enforcement apparently didn’t look much different. Of course, given how Capt. Ron Johnson described the official policy toward enforcement, that may not come as much of a surprise.

Earlier, Johnson said law enforcement would not be heavy-handed in enforcing the curfew.

“We won’t enforce it with trucks, we won’t enforce it with tear gas,” he said.

In the end, though, the cops wound up using both smoke canisters and tear gas after the shooting took place. The media already had the Governor on the ropes in terms of trying to balance the First Amendment rights of the protesters against the need to protect persons and property from hoodlums, as well as defending the decision to impose the curfew.

“If there was an easy way to separate those who hurt from those who helped, we would. But it’s hard,” Gov. Jay Nixon said. “And sometimes, especially at night, we can’t.”

“This is not to silence the people of Ferguson or this region or others, but to contain those who are drowning out the voice of the people with their actions,” Nixon said. “We will not allow a handful of looters to endanger the rest of this community.”

His decision stirred instant indignation among many gathered at the community meeting where he announced it. Some screamed out that authorities’ priority should be to provide justice to Brown’s family, not to clamp down on those calling for it.

One interesting side note which may provide a bit more background to the violence and protests comes from a video that CNN’s Victor Blackwell uncovered. It’s taken from somebody’s cell phone who was watching the police activity in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. And as a warning, the language is very coarse and the body of Michael Brown is still laying in the street for the entire thing, so you may want to skip clicking play.

If, as they suggest, this video has been making the rounds locally over social media, it may indeed have been fueling some of the anger. The introductory frames in the video have the bystander with his cell phone (who we’ll call Man 1) speaking with someone else who has arrived on the scene (Man 2) and is asking him questions.

Man 1: They say he had his hands up and everything.

Man 2: They trying to get at him?

Man 1: I don’t know. I wasn’t out here.

This part seems to establish that the owner of the video was not a witness to the shooting. He arrived after the fact, attracted by the sound of gunfire, and is getting his information second hand. But if this video has been making the rounds of the local residents, they probably paid a lot more attention to the next section of film. In the first sentence, it’s pretty clear that the owner of the video is talking about the police when he says “they” but then both of them refer to other persons (also “they”) who have apparently been giving details of what happened before the speaker arrived.

Man 1: They some lousy m***** f*****. They some dirty m***** f*****.

Man 2:They say they stood over him?

Man 1: Yeah. And shot him some more. When he was on the ground. That’s what they said. Shot him some more while he was on the ground.

Man 2:Police killed the dude.

Man 1: Yeah, police killed him. Said he had his hands up and everything. They still shot him. He fell on the ground, they stood over him and shot him some more. They’ve just got him laying in the street, dead as a m***** f*****. They just got him laying here.

Since we’ve yet to hear the officer’s account of what transpired in his own words, and since Michael Brown clearly can’t offer any testimony, we seem to be left with only one eye witness. And that witness winds up being the same person seen in a video helping Brown rob a store a few minutes before the fatal encounter, so you have to assign whatever level of credibility you wish to that testimony. But either way, having this sort of first person “reporting” making the rounds on everyone’s cell phones has no doubt been fueling a lot of the anger and speculation.

On the positive side, the numbers of people out there causing problems at least appears to be decreasing for now, so perhaps some semblance of normalcy will return to the area. The investigation continues.


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Dr. ZhivBlago on August 17, 2014 at 1:57 PM

The Supreme Court (which I respect, even if I don’t agree with all of its decisions) has said that government can place reasonable time and place restrictions on the exercise of First Amendment rights. I agree with that, and I think that carefully circumscribed curfews such as the one in Ferguson are reasonable. What you’re apparently worried about … not so much.

Syzygy on August 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

*an

anuts on August 17, 2014 at 2:18 PM

ell, the racist is talking about Mike Brown, a black man. And he advises that we should ask the British (white) and the Zulus (Black). Now, call me “able to connect the dots,” but I think the racist was being pretty clear about his racism. Dunno, though. A lot of you racists seem to have real trouble coming to grips with the fact that you are racist. Aquateen Hungerforce on August 17, 2014 at 1:45

The crips, bloods, and new black panthers were unavailable for comment.

They were busy looting, yo.

wolly4321 on August 17, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Don’t be hijacking swish leaf for blunts, yo.

White man got da gun.

Comprende?

wolly4321 on August 17, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Aquateen Hungerforce on August 17, 2014 at 1:45

How many hours you been going at this ?

Dude, you have mental issues..

CW on August 17, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Keeper:

=============
Killing my fellow citizens doesn’t count?

LawfulGood on August 17, 2014 at 1:45 PM

That’s not a personal experience. Pigs do it too. All the time.

If you knew that, you’d be a better person.

Cartoon Network on August 17, 2014 at 1:46 PM

You’re dismissed. That’s because you tell the other poster that its observation is not valid, because it was not a “personal experience”.

But just seconds before that, you said this:

You don’t have to have first hand experience with whatever group/organization to come to correct conclusions about what they are, what they do, and if or if not they should be opposed.

So you are holding yourself to a totally different standard than others.

F-

You really have no idea how idiotic you are coming off as, do you? Sad, really.

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 1:57 PM

CW on August 17, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Hey aqua,, you familiar with the aquatic ape theory?

wolly4321 on August 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Riddle me this batman. I was looking at the tape above, plus crime scene photos from the Daily Mail UK.
There is a photo of the red ball cap Mike Brown was wearing in the strong army robbery video to the left of his body.
As he fell, his body is facing toward the hat, where possibly a scuffle took place with the officer.
So, if Mike a Brown was running AWAY from the officer or on his knees with his hands up, wouldn’t his body be facing the other direction as he fell?
Why is his body racing TOWARDS the original scene?
Because, based on now TWO eyewitness accounts, Mike Brown was charging TOWARD the officer and NOT shot in the back?

HornetSting on August 17, 2014 at 2:36 PM

A man who claimed to have witnessed the fatal police shooting of Michael Brown said that he saw the 18-year-old doubling back towards the officer who shot him – a claim that counters most other witnesses’ rendition of the incident.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/17/unwitting-witness-pokes-holes-in-michael-brown-shooting-story/#ixzz3AfxEG3zA

so daily caller has picked up the vid i posted earlier, adding a wrinkle to the monolithic narrative that’s the ‘received wisdom’

so if the police have this (i’m sure they do) then we’ll have a forensic audio analysis of both (all) tapes.

Of course, this tape doesn’t exonerate the cop necessarily. I don’t know the protocol of what a cop is supposed to do with a fleeing suspect.

but try explaining That to a mob of looters

r keller on August 17, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Cigar afficianato. Directing traffic.

Yea.. that’s the ticket….

wolly4321 on August 17, 2014 at 2:48 PM

Aquatween Hungerforce on August 17, 2014 at 1:45

How many hours you been going at this ?

Dude, you have mental issues..

CW on August 17, 2014 at 2:33 PM

He’s all pissy today because his ’77 BMW was towed from a Taco Bell parking lot for leaking oil.

slickwillie2001 on August 17, 2014 at 2:50 PM

but try explaining That to a mob of looters

r keller on August 17, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Looter #1 – “Ima steelin dis case o beer for Big Mikey”

Looter #2 – “who dat?”

VegasRick on August 17, 2014 at 2:52 PM

but try explaining That to a mob of looters

r keller on August 17, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Looter #1 – “Ima steelin dis case o beer for Big Mikey”

Looter #2 – “who dat?”

VegasRick on August 17, 2014 at 2:52 PM

I saw a picture last night of a ‘street shrine’ in honor of Big Mikey. Most of the offerings were bottles of booze. Saw some MD 20-20.

slickwillie2001 on August 17, 2014 at 2:56 PM

CW on August 17, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Based on this statement:

You don’t have to have first hand experience with whatever group/organization to come to correct conclusions about what they are, what they do, and if or if not they should be opposed.

I’m beginning to wonder if our poorly-named cartoon character here might even be a Troofer.

Back around 2003 or so I was engaged in an online “discussion” with a real Troofer, and we were discussing what happened the morning of 9/11 at the Pentagon.

One of my cousins was a first responder there that day, as she was working in another government building nearby. She actually saw the jet incoming and saw it hit the Pentagon, and when she got there she could easily see pieces of the American Airlines plane, including bits of its livery (the “American Airlines” lettering on the fuselage.)

Despite all this, I was assured by that Troofer that she had not seen an incoming civilian airliner, and she had not seen any pieces of an American Airlines plane.

How did the Troofer know all of that? It was in France, of course! Can’t make this kind of Stupid up…

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 2:56 PM

Looter #1 – “Ima steelin dis case o beer for Big Mikey”

Looter #2 – “who dat?”

VegasRick on August 17, 2014 at 2:52 PM

LOL, you fascist racist.

Here’s what was needed at Ferguson.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html

HumpBot Salvation on August 17, 2014 at 2:57 PM

We’ve gone from midnight baskeball to midnight “protesting”.

Bitter Clinger on August 17, 2014 at 3:02 PM

LOL, you fascist racist.

Here’s what was needed at Ferguson.

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html

HumpBot Salvation on August 17, 2014 at 2:57 PM

“Dem slan tied japs is nuttin bu racists!”

*looter logic.

VegasRick on August 17, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Test/Fail

APACHEWHOKNOWS on August 17, 2014 at 4:00 PM

What is especially funny is that all you “eyewitnesses are unrealiable” fascists will be soooo happy when a corrupt, murdering pig gives its eyewitness account of what happened.

Cause pigs never lie or anything.

Aquateen Hungerforce on August 17, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Forget the “pigs”.

This is evidence too.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 4:06 PM

This case makes it appear that all the fires in the world went away.

It’s almost beautiful to see all the racists on display, starting with Holder and Nixon. The latter practically handed Ferguson over to the Black Panthers.

He’s derelict of his duties.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 4:09 PM

How did the Troofer know all of that? It was in France, of course! Can’t make this kind of Stupid up…

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 2:56 PM

This one is in Palos Verdes, in a Spider- or Super-man outfit.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 4:11 PM

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting

Maybe you all will believe this . Yet another source
explains what was known yesterday .
Posted at Drudge .

Lucano on August 17, 2014 at 4:15 PM

MO captain is making Brown into a hero on Faux.

SOB should be fired immediately, because he isn’t for enforcing laws. But, like Holder, melanin is the most important thing in his life.

But since Nixon is in on it, he will keep his job, if not get a promotion out of it.

Fu*k off, all you turds for ‘justice’.

MLK died for nothing at all.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 4:45 PM

That’s what “they” said, right? “They” said the cop shot him right in the middle of the street, even after he was down? That’s what “they” said?

What about the three witnesses who said BIG MIKE BROWN taunted the cop and bull rushed him???? How would you like to be in their shoes right now?

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Hey aquaqueenie, is Capt Ron Johnson a pig?

HumpBot Salvation on August 17, 2014 at 1:53 PM

How about Eric Holder, the highest LEO in the land?

HumpBot Salvation on August 17, 2014 at 4:47 PM

His decision stirred instant indignation among many gathered at the community meeting where he announced it. Some screamed out that authorities’ priority should be to provide justice to Brown’s family, not to clamp down on those calling for it.

These people want to class themselves in with the looters and shooters? Fine.

unclesmrgol on August 17, 2014 at 4:50 PM

Whoops , whole link .

Lucano on August 17, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Wow. Definitely a game changer.

unclesmrgol on August 17, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Race Pimp Al Sharpton is throwing gasoline on the fire but says absolutely NOTHING about the black kids shot in Chicago or anywhere else for that matter…..

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Hey aquaqueenie, is Capt Ron Johnson a pig?

HumpBot Salvation on August 17, 2014 at 1:53 PM

“Yes, but he’s my kind of pig” — Batman

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Let the Civil War begin…..

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 4:58 PM

That video is old….

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Race Pimp Al Sharpton is throwing gasoline on the fire but says absolutely NOTHING about the black kids shot in Chicago or anywhere else for that matter…..

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Al can’t be bothered with black-on-black violence, because he can’t make any money off of it.

He also missed this one, from August 9th in New Orleans’ 9th Ward:

Drive-by shooting in Lower 9th Ward leaves 2 dead, 5 wounded, including 2 toddler boys

A drive-by shooting Sunday night in the Lower 9th Ward claimed the life of two teenagers and left five other people injured. Among three critically wounded victims were a pair of toddler boys aged 4 and 2, New Orleans police said.

Details remained sketchy nearly four hours after a barrage of gunfire struck people gathered on the front porch of a home in the 5400 block of Burgundy Street shortly before 8 p.m. Distraught relatives said one of the toddlers had been shot in the head.

One of the others shot was a 13 year old girl.

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Revrun Al:

We are not looters!~!!!!

We are LIBERATORS!!!!

I needed a good laugh today.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 5:03 PM

How about Jamiel Shaw, a black kid in Los Angeles, murdered by an ILLEGAL ALIEN DREAMER and not a peep out of the Democrat American ISIS Party???? Where were you Al Sharpton? Eric Holder? Obama?

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Revrun Al “Ferguson will determine the presidencies, from now on, forever”.

Consumption is too good for this pig.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 5:05 PM

Will the revelation that Brown was in fact charging the officer change the attitude of the “Molotovs for Mikey” crowd?

What kind of barbarians “protest” by setting fires, breaking windows, and looting? We should round them all up and drop them into Iraq, let them try that crap on ISIS.

Is there something wrong with people who lionize violent criminals who force others to use deadly force to stop them?

Adjoran on August 17, 2014 at 5:06 PM

Hey aquaqueenie, is Capt Ron Johnson a pig?

HumpBot Salvation on August 17, 2014 at 1:53 PM

If you watched Capt. Johnson’s motivational speech at the church rally an hour ago, it’s clear he’s a racist scumbag as well.

One of my cousins was a first responder there that day, as she was working in another government building nearby. She actually saw the jet incoming and saw it hit the Pentagon, and when she got there she could easily see pieces of the American Airlines plane, including bits of its livery (the “American Airlines” lettering on the fuselage.)

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 2:56 PM

I was on terminal leave on 9/11. My squad was in Arlington Nat’l Cemetery (I was a Section Sgt. in the Caisson Platoon) on 9/11 and also saw the commercial jetliner hit the Pentagon.

Forget the “pigs”.

This is evidence too.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 4:06 PM

You don’t even need that damning background conversation. The position and location of Mike Brown’s body pretty much tells the story and it contradicts the narrative of the black cop-haters.

Why is his body racing TOWARDS the original scene?
Because, based on now TWO eyewitness accounts, Mike Brown was charging TOWARD the officer and NOT shot in the back?

HornetSting on August 17, 2014 at 2:36 PM

See comment immediately above.

UnstChem on August 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Democrat American ISIS Party members in Missouri:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGVuoS6LHic

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 5:21 PM

So what has the Autopsy uncovered?

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 5:22 PM

So what has the Autopsy uncovered?

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Slugs?

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 17, 2014 at 5:28 PM

That’s what “they” said, right? “They” said the cop shot him right in the middle of the street, even after he was down? That’s what “they” said?

What about the three witnesses who said BIG MIKE BROWN taunted the cop and bull rushed him???? How would you like to be in their shoes right now?

Realdemocrat1 on August 17, 2014 at 4:46 PM

I’m thinking Big Mike was taunting the cop because his first few shots missed entirely. That may be because of the beating he took, it’s hard to see for a minute or two after your nose is broken.

slickwillie2001 on August 17, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Revrun Al:

We are not looters!~!!!!

We are LIBERATORS!!!!

I needed a good laugh today.

Schadenfreude on August 17, 2014 at 5:03 PM

“Yeah, we’s liberatin’ dems 18″ rims from dem racist storeowners!”

slickwillie2001 on August 17, 2014 at 5:31 PM

So… When will Revrum Al be heading back home to rouse the rabble over this?

http://nypost.com/2014/08/17/2-dead-in-drive-by-shooting-in-nyc-including-aspiring-rapper/

Tell me; Did Michael Brown ‘rap’ when he wasn’t busy stealing ‘wrappers’ for ‘blunts’?

LegendHasIt on August 17, 2014 at 5:37 PM

I have worked in the real estate mortgage sector for 35 years so know how that all unfolded. You’re entitled to your opinions, but don’t ever confuse them with the truth. I was there as it happened, and I am still there.

The 2007 economic meltdown was directly caused and directly fueled by Democrat policies, including Bill Clinton’s Assistant Attorney General Eric Holder legally threatening lenders and thus forcing them to issue more subprime mortgages. In the 8 years Clinton was pResident, the number of subprime mortgages in the US tripled.

As for Bush “inheriting” the Clinton “economy”, that was all smoke and mirrors, because it was all due to the dot.com bubble, which soon burst. Can’t blame that on Bush unless you’re a Clinton.

And don’t forget another thing Bush inherited from Clinton, namely the deadliest attacks on US soil in our country’s history, whih bin Laden himself said were supposed to happen before Clinton left office. The only reason they didn’t was because the leader of the 9/11 team, Mohammed Atta, told bin Laden they needed more time to prepare. Clinton’s name is on bin Laden’s 1996 Fatwa against the US; Bush’s name is never mentioned.

Get back to us when you return to reality, and maybe we’ll stop laughing at you.

F-

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM

It seems you forgot about the whole Bin Landin determined to strike memo which Bush ignored. 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch. Trying to blame Clinton for Bushes failure is just weak. Furthermore the repeal of Glass-Steagall was a bipartisan effort in which both parties are culpable. The fact is bubble or not Clinton handed Bush a budget surplus which he proceeded to squander. Also Bush grow the economy mostly on smoke and mirrors due to the housing bubble which his administration cheered on. When he left office the economy was in smoldering ruins due to his bad stewarship. Facts are stubborn things Del Dolemonte and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that. F-

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

9/11 happened on Bush’s watch.
 
Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

 
Same standard for current conditions in Iraq, correct?

rogerb on August 17, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Same standard for current conditions in Iraq, correct?

rogerb on August 17, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Iraq’s a sovereign nation. A nation which asked us to leave. How is it Obama’s fault that the Iraq PM is incompetent. Furthermore who destabilized Iraq in the first place?

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:35 PM

9/11 happened on Bush’s watch.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Same standard for current conditions in Iraq, correct?
rogerb on August 17, 2014 at 6:11 PM

I think so, rogerb. In fact, it seems whatever happens 7-8 months after inauguration is on whomever is current.

anuts on August 17, 2014 at 6:44 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM

It seems you forgot about the whole Bin Landin determined to strike memo which Bush ignored. 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

LOL!

I’ll ignore all of your Lies about what caused the economic meltdown. Let’s stick with 9/11.

I’ve been asking you Brain-Dead BDSers this for nearly 15 years now. I have never ever gotten an answer, because none could respond and they knew it. But I’ll give it a go with you.

How exactly could Bush have used the info in that memo-which of course was only that, and nothing more-to prevent the 9/11 attacks from taking place?

And before you amuse us with your answer, remember that he would have had to do so in a manner that you and your fellow Leftists would have approved of at the time.

In fact, a gate agent at the Portland Maine Jetport was extremely suspicious of Mohammed Atta and his accomplice on the morning of 9/11; the two of them had rented a car and driven from Boston to Portland and spent the night of 9/10 there. Their plan (which obviously worked) was to take a commuter flight to Boston from Portland on the morning of 9/11 and then get right on the flight to LA without having to go thru extra security.

That gate agent in Portland has been haunted ever since. Because he was PC and could not use profiling on them. Had he done so, at least one of the WTC towers might still be standing.

So, once again, please tell us how Bush could have used that memo info to prevent the 9/11 attacks from taking place, in a manner that you would have approved of at the time.

Bonus question: please tell us why Clinton’s National Security Advisor was later busted for stealing and destroying 9/11 related documents from the National Archives.

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 6:48 PM

Same standard for current conditions in Iraq, correct?

rogerb on August 17, 2014 at 6:11 PM

I refuse to answer your question. We both know why.

Well played.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:35 PM

Edited to reflect your sad reality.

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Iraq’s a sovereign nation. A nation which asked us to leave. How is it Obama’s fault that the Iraq PM is incompetent. Furthermore who destabilized Iraq in the first place?
Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:35 PM

Funny…

You more than likely voted for the guy who campaigned on “bringing the troops home from Iraq” and “sending more troops to the ‘real’ war in Afghanistan.” Both, by the way, were in far greater shape at the time than they are today. Also, do you believe ISIS would be doing their thing if we had a strong presence in Iraq? If so, how wise does that decision of leaving look now?

anuts on August 17, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Dolemonte just because you assert something doesn’t make it true. Calling a fact a lie doesn’t change reality. Bush’s economic policies were an abject failure. Regarding 9-11, the fact that you can somehow blame Clinton but absolve Bush is a profound cognitive dissonance. Reconcile how Clinton is culpable while Bush is blameless and I’ll debate you further. Otherwise they’re no sense in debating a irrational person.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 7:04 PM

Funny…

You more than likely voted for the guy who campaigned on “bringing the troops home from Iraq” and “sending more troops to the ‘real’ war in Afghanistan.” Both, by the way, were in far greater shape at the time than they are today. Also, do you believe ISIS would be doing their thing if we had a strong presence in Iraq? If so, how wise does that decision of leaving look now?

anuts on August 17, 2014 at 6:59 PM

So are you saying the US should ignore a sovereign country wishes and occupy their country? How would that fly here if Russia decided that our democracy is a mess and sent in their troops to “assist” our democracy? Obama wanted to keep troops in Iraq, Iraq didn’t want them. We respected their right to self-determination and left.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 7:09 PM

So are you saying the US should ignore a sovereign country wishes and occupy their country? How would that fly here if Russia decided that our democracy is a mess and sent in their troops to “assist” our democracy? Obama wanted to keep troops in Iraq, Iraq didn’t want them. We respected their right to self-determination and left. Old meme: Obama is the Messiah for following through on removing troops from Iraq. New meme: Now that Iraq went to hell, we were just following the wishes of Maliki.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 7:09 PM

Corrected

UnstChem on August 17, 2014 at 7:25 PM

So are you saying the US should ignore a sovereign country wishes and occupy their country? How would that fly here if Russia decided that our democracy is a mess and sent in their troops to “assist” our democracy? Obama wanted to keep troops in Iraq, Iraq didn’t want them. We respected their right to self-determination and left.
Ric on August 17, 2014 at 7:09 PM

Of course I’m not saying that. That would be accepting a premise contrary to the actual historical record. You may accept that but I prefer reality. Obama’s wanted to leave Iraq since he was a senator. He campaigned on that. He even called it a “stupid” war at one point.

So now that we have to go back in and deal with this ISIS garbage and what they’re doing, does the decision look wise to leave? And it was most certainly all on Obama against the advice of the Joint Chiefs and the intelligence community…precisely for this kind of reason.

anuts on August 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM

9/11 happened on Bush’s watch.
 
Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

 
Same standard for current conditions in Iraq, correct?
 
rogerb on August 17, 2014 at 6:11 PM

 
Iraq’s a sovereign nation. A nation which asked us to leave. How is it Obama’s fault that the Iraq PM is incompetent. Furthermore who destabilized Iraq in the first place?
 
Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:35 PM

 
That’s quite possibly the most elaborate spelling of the word “no” ever posted on hotair.

rogerb on August 17, 2014 at 8:13 PM

Trying to blame Clinton for Bushes failure is just weak

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Here is Bill Clinton speaking on 9/10/2001 — the day before the Al Qaeda attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meYT_Jzy3eU

unclesmrgol on August 17, 2014 at 8:15 PM

Trying to blame Clinton for Bushes failure is just weak

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Here is Bill Clinton speaking on 9/10/2001 — the day before the Al Qaeda attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meYT_Jzy3eU

unclesmrgol on August 17, 2014 at 8:15 PM

Sandy Berger couldn’t stuff that video into his socks too?

slickwillie2001 on August 17, 2014 at 8:53 PM

Dolemonte just because you assert something doesn’t make it true. Calling a fact a lie doesn’t change reality. Bush’s economic policies were an abject failure. Regarding 9-11, the fact that you can somehow blame Clinton but absolve Bush is a profound cognitive dissonance. Reconcile how Clinton is culpable while Bush is blameless and I’ll debate you further. Otherwise they’re no sense in debating a irrational person.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 7:04 PM

LOL! Sheer Alinsky 101. And thanks for proving me correct-I have asked that question about how Bush could have prevented 9/11 for almost 15 years now, and yet another BDSer refuses to answer. Sucks to be you.

F-#1

Here’s the transcript from the August 2001 MEMO that Bush got. You can easily find the transcript online from many sources.

The first paragraph mentions a part of the briefing that had the name of a single foreign country’s intel source redacted.

The following is a transcript of the August 6, 2001, presidential daily briefing entitled Bin Laden determined to strike in US. Parts of the original document were not made public by the White House for security reasons.

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and “bring the fighting to America.”

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a — – service.

An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told – - service at the same time that bin Laden was planning to exploit the operative’s access to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of bin Laden’s first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S.

Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that in —, Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack.

Ressam says bin Laden was aware of the Los Angeles operation. Although Bin Laden has not succeeded, his attacks against the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Laden associates surveyed our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al Qaeda members — including some who are U.S. citizens — have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks.

Two al-Qaeda members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were U.S. citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a —- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of “Blind Sheikh” Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.

As those of us here on Planet Earth with more than two functioning brain cells can conclude, that MEMO is extremely vague, and only mentions a couple of specific US targets (D.C. and L.A.) The MEMO never says where those 70 FBI investigations are being done.

One more time: Please tell us how Bush could have prevented all of those attacks, in a manner in which you would have approved of at the time.

I’m not expecting an answer, but give it a Half-Vast throw!

F-#2

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 9:32 PM

Regarding 9-11, the fact that you can somehow blame Clinton but absolve Bush is a profound cognitive dissonance. Reconcile how Clinton is culpable while Bush is blameless and I’ll debate you further. Otherwise they’re no sense in debating a irrational person.

Ric on August 17, 2014 at 7:04 PM

PS:

Your other problem is that I never absolved Bush, nor did I hold him blameless. All I did was correctly state that he inherited the 9/11 attacks from his Democrat predecessor. You stupidly assumed the rest.

And then, I asked you how he could have prevented those attacks. By asking you that question, I was also admitting not only that the attacks happened on his watch, but also that by sheer logic I was not absolving him of anything.

And your final problem? It’s curious that right after 9/11, the Democrat Media “polls” asked who bore more blame for 9/11, Bush or Clinton. When the first two “polls” came out, the “pollsters” immediately stopped asking the question, because more people in their results were blaming Clinton than Bush!

It must still be really killing you that Bush “let” those attacks happen, and was then rewarded by the American public with a 90% job approval number…let us know when O’bama ever gets up there!

Sorry to do that, but you make it too easy, Kid.

FFFFF-

Del Dolemonte on August 17, 2014 at 9:41 PM

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