Trouble in paradise: Hillary calls Obama to heal rift over Atlantic interview

posted at 4:01 pm on August 12, 2014 by Allahpundit

She didn’t mean to attack him, you know. That razor-sharp line about how “Don’t do stupid stuff” isn’t an organizing principle was aimed at some other administration that takes “Don’t do stupid stuff” as its organizing principle.

“Secretary Clinton was proud to serve with President Obama, she was proud to be his partner in the project of restoring American leadership and advancing America’s interests and values in a fast changing world,” said the statement, shared with POLITICO.

“She continues to share his deep commitment to a smart and principled foreign policy that uses all the tools at our disposal to achieve our goals. Earlier today, the secretary called President Obama to make sure he knows that nothing she said was an attempt to attack him, his policies, or his leadership.”

It added: “Secretary Clinton has at every step of the way touted the significant achievements of his presidency, which she is honored to have been part of as his secretary of state. While they’ve had honest differences on some issues, including aspects of the wicked challenge Syria presents, she has explained those differences in her book and at many points since then. Some are now choosing to hype those differences but they do not eclipse their broad agreement on most issues. Like any two friends who have to deal with the public eye, she looks forward to hugging it out when she they see each other tomorrow night.”

In fairness to her, I’m surprised at how much Team O has pushed back. His foreign policy rating is in the toilet; she’s the nominee-in-waiting. Of course she’s going to draw some distinctions between them, and it’s to the party’s benefit that she does so. Instead you’ve got Obama grumbling about “horsesh*t” criticism, Axelrod publicly calling her out on Twitter, and unnamed administration officials whispering to the Times that she was oddly quiet about some of these big international challenges back when she had the means to influence them.

But at the time of the Obama administration’s internal debate over that decision, several officials said, Mrs. Clinton’s advocacy was far less thunderous: The United States had tried every diplomatic gambit with Syria, she said, and nothing else had worked, so why not try funneling weapons to the moderate rebels…

At the end of her tenure, for example, Mrs. Clinton wrote a memo to Mr. Obama recommending that the United States lift its half-century-old trade embargo against Cuba. It was not a position that she seriously advocated while at the State Department, officials said.

In the interview with The Atlantic, Mrs. Clinton said she had always been in the camp of those who believed that Iran had no right to enrich uranium. Yet in December 2010, she was one of the first American officials to acknowledge publicly, in an interview with the BBC, that Iran could emerge from a nuclear deal with the right to enrich.

When forced to choose between protecting their own legacy and making life easier for the next Democrat to lead the ticket, the Hopenchange boys have made their choice. If this ship is destined to sink, they’re going to make sure that Hillary takes on some water too. Excellent.

Now she has her own choice to make. Having seen how hard the White House is willing to tug on her leash as she tries to walk away, does she tone down her criticism of them on foreign policy or risk making enemies of them by keeping at it? I’m thinking she’ll probably accentuate the positive: Now that he’s bombing ISIS, she can communicate her own hawkishness to voters by cheerleading for that. Liberals might tolerate her being a loud-and-proud interventionist but asking them to tolerate it while she’s tearing down a president they voted for twice, who himself is a bit more hawkish than some of them would prefer, might be too much. Frankly, I wonder if she needs to ostentatiously brand herself a hawk at all at this point. She’s eager to do that, I assume, because she’s worried that some voters won’t trust a woman to be commander-in-chief (especially given that her biggest government role was in diplomacy, not at the Pentagon), but her reputation as a hawk is well known among people who follow politics. It’ll be well known to low-information voters too after she spends a year on the trail. There’s no need to pick a fight with Obama right now. Especially when his team is as willing to fight back as they are.


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“These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others!”

–HIllary’s new motto.

Vanceone on August 12, 2014 at 4:02 PM

She didn’t mean to attack him, you know. That razor-sharp line about how “Don’t do stupid stuff” isn’t an organizing principle was aimed at some other administration that takes “Don’t do stupid stuff” as its organizing principle.

.
I think ALL of us can take delicious sips of the irony of Clinton using the “who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes” card on Obama.

This irony is best served chilled to the sang froid temperature

PolAgnostic on August 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Hillary to Obama: “I didn’t have sexual relations with that Atlantic reporter.”

BuckeyeSam on August 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM

One of those Michael Kinsley gaffes, I guess.

cbenoistd on August 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Hillary declared WWIII on Obama. She can’t walk that back now. Oh they may make nice for the cameras, but underneath the hate will still rage.

VorDaj on August 12, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Both are worthless POS’s…

PatriotRider on August 12, 2014 at 4:07 PM

In the interview with The Atlantic, Mrs. Clinton said she had always been in the camp of those who believed that Iran had no right to enrich uranium. Yet in December 2010, she was one of the first American officials to acknowledge publicly, in an interview with the BBC, that Iran could emerge from a nuclear deal with the right to enrich.

“I was for Iran enriching uranium before I was against it.”
/The Kerry Doctrine of Democrat Pols

Bitter Clinger on August 12, 2014 at 4:08 PM

To quote the POTUS…”horsesh!t”.

d1carter on August 12, 2014 at 4:08 PM

She’ll continue attacking him in public, and any making up will be in private. It’s the clearest sign that she’s running for President and doesn’t want any responsibility for a nervous world that’s falling apart.

RBMN on August 12, 2014 at 4:09 PM

In fairness to her, I’m surprised at how much Team O has pushed back. His foreign policy rating is in the toilet; she’s the nominee-in-waiting.

It is very impolite to point out the Emperor is not wearing clothes. Especially by one of the inner circle. It simply isn’t done.

Johnnyreb on August 12, 2014 at 4:09 PM

“These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others!”

–HIllary’s new motto.

Vanceone on August 12, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Now all Hillary needs is a mustache and a cigar.

VorDaj on August 12, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Obama, Kerry, Hillary and E Warren

The father, the son, the holy ghost and the virgin mary….

Bradky on August 12, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Bill will intervene…

albill on August 12, 2014 at 4:12 PM

It took Allahpundit 748 words to say “the democrats are in disarray.”

Walter L. Newton on August 12, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Another sucky day to be a troll.

Walter L. Newton on August 12, 2014 at 4:12 PM

At least one is an ignorant masochist.

Bless your little heart, fool.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM

Earlier today, the secretary called President Obama to make sure he knows that nothing she said was an attempt to attack him, his policies, or his leadership.”

And after all she said, doing just that, if she expected him to believe her, she must think he has the IQ of a potted plant.

VorDaj on August 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM

Monica Lewinsky’s ex-boyfriend’s wife asks:

What difference, at this point, does it make?

Galtian on August 12, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Another sucky day to be a troll.

At least one is an ignorant masochist.

Bless your little heart, fool.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM

I should have been more precise. 748 word WITH QUOTED MATERIAL to say “the democrats are in disarray.”

Click bait.

Walter L. Newton on August 12, 2014 at 4:17 PM

King Barry the Loathsome vs. The Wicked Witch.
Should put it on pay-per-view.

justltl on August 12, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Going to be interesting couple of years. Old thin skin going to keep sinking and he’s going to keep hillary on a short lease. Must have something really good on her to have her run back so fast.

wifarmboy on August 12, 2014 at 4:18 PM

I thought she was calling to apologize for appearing in public on a beach…

d1carter on August 12, 2014 at 4:19 PM

HilKilRod Political BlowBack!!

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 4:22 PM

Which one is Darth Vader, and which one is Palpatine?

portlandon on August 12, 2014 at 4:22 PM

“the democrats are in disarray.”

Walter L. Newton on August 12, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Beautiful words. Keep it up.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:24 PM

We go back to the campaign trail:

Hillary Clinton Mocks Obama’s Hope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89ia8I2jtfI

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 4:24 PM

portlandon on August 12, 2014 at 4:22 PM

They are both Jar-jars evil, dumber, twin.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:25 PM

When forced to choose between protecting their own legacy and making life easier for the next Democrat to lead the ticket, the Hopenchange boys have made their choice.

The narcissism is strong with this one. He’d rather the Fascist-Democrats lose in 2016 than to have any criticism of himself.

rbj on August 12, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Going to be interesting couple of years. Old thin skin going to keep sinking and he’s going to keep hillary on a short lease. Must have something really good on her to have her run back so fast.

wifarmboy on August 12, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Neither can afford to push the other too far. Too much will out. They’re locked in a relationship of mutual assured destruction. They’re both MAD.

de rigueur on August 12, 2014 at 4:26 PM

The cackling cow is obviously a racist.

justltl on August 12, 2014 at 4:27 PM

What a surprise Hillary would throw the president and his policies under the bus for her own personal gain, and then give him a wink and a nod. What a surprise he didn’t see it coming down the tracks like a runaway freight train. DOH!! She’s not done yet, she’s got 2 years to play whackamole with the president. Grab the popcorn!

scalleywag on August 12, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Which one is Darth Vader, and which one is Palpatine?

portlandon on August 12, 2014 at 4:22 PM

Shrillary is starting to look like Palpatine. And Barry has always been a white guy stuck in a black suit.

Flange on August 12, 2014 at 4:27 PM

obama’s organizing principle: me first.

independent76 on August 12, 2014 at 4:28 PM

……”oh and Mr President – Bill wants his coffee served with cream and sugar,, thanks”

jake-the-goose on August 12, 2014 at 4:28 PM

The Obama camp despises the Clintons.

The original support for John Edwards and Barack Obama in 2007 came from ABC Democrats – “Anybody but Clinton”

myiq2xu on August 12, 2014 at 4:28 PM

Wait a tic,……they are going to Party:

Obamas and Clintons Will Party Together on Martha’s Vineyard
Aug 12 2014
***********

So, this week we will see a rare occurrence: An event attended by both the Clintons and the Obamas.

The timing is interesting too: It comes right after Hillary Clinton, in an interview with the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg, offered her first real criticism of President Obama when she said Obama’s “failure” to arm moderate Syrian rebels created a vacuum that allowed the rise of the al Qaeda offshoot ISIS.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/08/obamas-and-clintons-will-party-together-on-marthas-vineyard/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Maybe Bill will tag along…you know, to remind Barack that
“10 years ago you would’ve been serving us coffee”

ToddPA on August 12, 2014 at 4:33 PM

“[S]he looks forward to hugging it out when she they see each other tomorrow night.”

Ick!!!

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 4:37 PM

POTUS to Hillary: “Those are not the Black Voters you thought you knew….”

victor82 on August 12, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Thank you, President Obama!

Ned Pepper on August 11, 2014 at 3:47 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM

More GOP infighting. I like it.

Ned Pepper on July 18, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM

Actually Obama’s azz is a pretty safe place to be.

Ned Pepper on August 11, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Ned might have died, from irony.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM

You don’t send me flowers
You don’t sing me love songs
You hardly talk to me anymore when I come through the door at the end of the day…….

gophergirl on August 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Hillary is not a natural politician. Just because she is married to a natural politician does not mean it rubbed off.

That interview about Syria was a disaster. And no amount of
a$$-kissing is going to fix it.

coolrepublica on August 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Nothing to see here..

Only fearmongering and scaring the populace

Ned Pepper on August 11, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM

coolrepublica on August 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Butthurt much?

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Two ironies:

“Chimpey” ‘killed’ obama.

obama ‘killed’ Hillary.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Damage Control:

Hillary Clinton Called Obama To Say She Wasn’t Trying To Attack Him
August 12, 2014, 3:09 PM EDT
****************************

“Some are now choosing to hype those differences but they do not eclipse their broad agreement on most issues,” the Clinton spokesman said. “Like any two friends who have to deal with the public eye, she looks forward to hugging it out when she they see each other tomorrow night.”

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hillary-calls-obama-atlantic-interview

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Now she has her own choice to make. Having seen how hard the White House is willing to tug on her leash as she tries to walk away, does she tone down her criticism of them on foreign policy or risk making enemies of them by keeping at it? I’m thinking she’ll probably accentuate the positive: Now that he’s bombing ISIS, she can communicate her own hawkishness to voters by cheerleading for that. Liberals might tolerate her being a loud-and-proud interventionist but asking them to tolerate it while she’s tearing down a president they voted for twice, who himself is a bit more hawkish than some of them would prefer, might be too much. Frankly, I wonder if she needs to ostentatiously brand herself a hawk at all at this point. She’s eager to do that, I assume, because she’s worried that some voters won’t trust a woman to be commander-in-chief (especially given that her biggest government role was in diplomacy, not at the Pentagon), but her reputation as a hawk is well known among people who follow politics. It’ll be well known to low-information voters too after she spends a year on the trail.

That’s a lot of words to simply skirt around the reality: libtards will vote the way they’re told, because lady parts and slavery omgz.

Midas on August 12, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Kiss

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Hug

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:43 PM

Say that you’re reading a series of novels, such as Game of Thrones. If you get bored with the characters or the story, you put the books aside and start on something else.

With demonRats O’Butthead and hildebeest, it’s just the same two characters and same behaviors over and over and over again. No variety and no other choice aside from Fauxcahontas.

What a frickin’ nightmare.

MisterElephant on August 12, 2014 at 4:43 PM

Hug II

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:44 PM

Messiahs never like to be dissed.

Hillary is not a natural politician. Just because she is married to a natural politician does not mean it rubbed off.

coolrepublica on August 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM

The fact Willie needed Dick Morris to keep him in office and out of jail was just coinkydink.

formwiz on August 12, 2014 at 4:45 PM

formwiz on August 12, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Aw c’mon. When Hillary becomes the nominee, CR will jump in to line, suck it up and praise her.

Its what ignorant libs do…always.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Such a big fuss over a little “Speako”.

TooTall on August 12, 2014 at 4:50 PM

Beautiful words. Keep it up.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I’ll tell you what. Needle it down for me. Tell me the words I can say on Hot Air and point me to the ones I can’t say on Hot Air. Make me a list or something.

Then ask me for my email address, I’ll give it to you.

Walter L. Newton on August 12, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Beautiful words. Keep it up.

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I’ll tell you what. Needle it down for me. Tell me the words I can say on Hot Air and point me to the ones I can’t say on Hot Air. Make me a list or something.

Then ask me for my email address, I’ll give it to you.

Walter L. Newton on August 12, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Wow, I guess Walt set you straight! You best get him that list..

He Writes Plays you know…..

ToddPA on August 12, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Shrillary is starting to look like Palpatine. And Barry has always been a white guy stuck in a black suit.

Flange on August 12, 2014 at 4:27 PM

LOL! Thanks for the laugh.

Brat on August 12, 2014 at 5:03 PM

His foreign policy rating is in the toilet; she’s the nominee-in-waiting. Of course she’s going to draw some distinctions between them, and it’s to the party’s benefit that she does so.

Let’s see, Obama 2008: “She’s likable enough.”

That’s about as warm and fuzzy Barry is going to get regarding Hillary or Joe. The only thing that man will do come 2016 is attend the highest of the high fundraisers where he will get to sit with the captains of capitol and eat from the richest menus. Other than that, I expect him to damn Hillary and Joe with faint praise. Nobody but nobody can or will match the brilliance of his presidency. Why should he even begin to to construct a facade that says otherwise?

All of which means, Hillary is wasting her breath if she thinks sucking up to Obama now is going to benefit her in any way, shape or form.

parke on August 12, 2014 at 5:04 PM

“[S]he looks forward to hugging it out when she they see each other tomorrow night.”

Ick!!!

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Bmore:Lol, yups:)

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 5:04 PM

And after all she said, doing just that, if she expected him to believe her, she must think he has the IQ of a potted plant.

VorDaj on August 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM

So she knows at least one thing.

UnstChem on August 12, 2014 at 5:06 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:43 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:44 PM

Ick!!!

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Walter L. Newton, here two of the forbidden HA links:

cnn.com

canadafreepress

You need to run them through this, and then post the converted link.

http://tinyurl.com/

You have to do the same with other, and more obscure, links HA forbids.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:08 PM

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Definitely don’t look at Schadenfreudes links. Once seen they cannot be unseen.

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:08 PM

“These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others!”

–HIllary’s new motto.

Wasn’t that always Hillary’s motto?

Aizen on August 12, 2014 at 5:09 PM

Well, s/b this one

http://www.canadafreepress.com/

Forbidden by the HA mill…no idea why, along with CNN…

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:09 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:08 PM

CNS is another.

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:09 PM

Thank you, Bmore

On individual words, revolution used to be forbidden, but no longer is :)

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Again, the only time you can get Obama and his team off the dime quickly is when you hit too close to home. This guy has no priorities other than making himself look good.

Buck Farky on August 12, 2014 at 5:11 PM

But, advocating for revolution is forbidden.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:10 PM

You are welcomed. I always intended to make a list of all the forbidden words and sites. Some day…………..

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Dem on Dem political violence. I love it. More please. Lots more.

307wolverine on August 12, 2014 at 5:13 PM

He Writes Plays you know…..

ToddPA on August 12, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Did you mean that he plays with himself while he writes?

cozmo on August 12, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Changing your positions based on polls is not an organizing principle.

GreenBlade on August 12, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Bmore and canopfor, just for you.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM

She may be brandishing herself a deeper hawk than during her term as SecState because she knows instinctively -and from past experience- that the next president is going to have to deal militarily with the mess made by the current one. And how do you make that case after doving it for 8 years?

BKeyser on August 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM

Actually Obama’s azz is a pretty safe place to be.

Ned Pepper on August 11, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Ned might have died, from irony.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM

More likely from the pounding Ned took from Hillary’s strap-on…

Ogabe on August 12, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Of course she’s going to draw some distinctions between them, and it’s to the party’s benefit that she does so.

A narcissist sociopath like Barry doesn’t care about the party after he is out of power. In fact he will do whatever he can to sabotage his successor, Democratic or Republican, and the nation.

He wants America to suffer after he is gone to punish us for not loving him enough. He feels that America is not worthy of someone of his brilliance.

slickwillie2001 on August 12, 2014 at 5:30 PM

Question: Does the Hildebeest want Barry’s endorsement? Does anyone? By 2016 will Barry’s endorsement be poison?

Will Barry torpedo her by giving her his endorsement? Wouldn’t he rather endorse a black candidate that looks like he did in 2008?

No love for poor Joe?

slickwillie2001 on August 12, 2014 at 5:37 PM

“Secretary Clinton has at every step of the way touted the significant achievements of his presidency, which she is honored to have been part of as his secretary of state.

1. Evidently Billy and Hillary! actually believe that King Barack will endorse her for the Democratic nomination.

2. Hillary! thought that she could get away with dissing The Chosen One at this point.

Hillary! = Obama v2.0

GarandFan on August 12, 2014 at 5:38 PM

A ‘beer summit’ is in order.

socalcon on August 12, 2014 at 5:44 PM

Axelrod is an idiot.

Hillary, Biden and Hagel voted for the war in Iraq.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:44 PM

Retweeted by Noah Rothman
Michelle Jaconi ‏@mjaconiCNN 5m

Sen. Rand Paul was asked to describe @HillaryClinton in a few words. His answer: “yesterday’s news” h/t @KilloughCNN http://cnn.it/1pMTCZp

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Democrats are think-skinned, period. Pushback against them only shows how weak they are. Dem Hillary can do it or Rs can do it – just push back – Dems can’t take criticism of any kind.

MN J on August 12, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Lolz! If you remember the Hillary stripper chop I was working on some time ago. I thought maybe I was overdoing it on her weight. These recent photos reveal I was not.

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Lolz! If you remember the Hillary stripper chop I was working on some time ago. I thought maybe I was overdoing it on her weight. These recent photos reveal I was not.

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Now we know where the parachutes missing from the aid drops in Iraq went.

slickwillie2001 on August 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Clinton Guano! Becoming a semi-precious commodity!

PolarCoug on August 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Lolz! If you remember the Hillary stripper chop I was working on some time ago. I thought maybe I was overdoing it on her weight. These recent photos reveal I was not.

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

You should take this and morph a beached whale into her. It’s your next ‘assignment’ :)

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Dumb and Dumber.
Scum and Scummer.
Together, again.

orangemtl on August 12, 2014 at 6:00 PM

slickwillie2001 on August 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Lolz!

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 6:00 PM

I am hopeful soon things will settle back in and I will find time and motivation to continue. ; )

Bmore on August 12, 2014 at 6:02 PM

One way to heal the rift–Hillary for prez, Michelle O for veep. Hillary is in poor health, she dies in 6 mos, Michelle takes over and BHO moves right back in with his golf bags and Valerie Jarrett..

MaiDee on August 12, 2014 at 6:23 PM

One way to heal the rift–Hillary for prez, Michelle O for veep. Hillary is in poor health, she dies in 6 mos, Michelle takes over and BHO moves right back in with his golf bags and Valerie Jarrett..

MaiDee on August 12, 2014 at 6:23 PM

I’ve heard rumors that on Barry’s last Hawaii vacation someone ran off a COLB for Valerie Jarrett.

slickwillie2001 on August 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Bmore and canopfor, just for you.

Schadenfreude on August 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Schadenfreude:

Lol,…oh gawd,…a Moo Moo frock,

and my freagg’n eyes!—-:)

canopfor on August 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM