Kerry, Biden warn Russia over crossing Ukraine border for “humanitarian” missions

posted at 9:31 am on August 10, 2014 by Jazz Shaw

And this time, they mean it.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry warned his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, on Saturday that “Russia should not intervene in Ukraine under the guise of humanitarian convoys or any other pretext of ‘peacekeeping,’” according to a senior State Department official.
Will Putin’s forces invade Ukraine?
Ukraine: Rebels shot down military plane

Kerry urged “all parties to work through international organizations” to provide humanitarian assistance in eastern Ukraine, the official said.

In a separate call Saturday, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko agreed that any Russian action in Ukraine, even for purported “humanitarian” purposes, without the formal, express consent and authorization of the Ukraine government would be “unacceptable and a violation of international law,” according to the White House.

I first caught this story this morning on CNN’s New Day, where Victor Blackwell was conducting an interview with a field reporter on the subject. (Looking for the video on this.) To his credit, Blackwell asked the same question that jumped to my mind immediately. If you draw a line and tell someone not to cross it, but they do, then you draw another line, what motivation do they have to not just cross it again?

Given Vladimir Putin’s recent proclivities, this seems like an invitation to disaster. Issuing orders to Moscow along the lines of, don’t you dare cross the border for your so called humanitarian missions, is just the excuse Putin needs to inform the world that Barack Obama does not run Russian foreign policy. And now that the issue of the need for humanitarian aid to the people afflicted by the conflict has been raised, the temptation is probably even greater. As we talked about yesterday, if Putin was thinking about a direct military incursion into the area around Donetsk, he might have still had the sense to hold back because of the international reaction. But if you can take 20,000 troops and hand them all a care package, the propaganda stage is set for the usual Putin theatrics. Send in the troops while claiming that they are there to “provide humanitarian relief” and then, if an errant shot goes off and they begin firing back, well… it just couldn’t be avoided.

If threats from the United States actually had any weight behind them, Putin would probably be more likely to keep his cards close to the vest and look for a way out of this while saving face. But he seems to have no fear of America at this point, so don’t be shocked if this “relief mission” heads into the Donetsk region, tanks and all.


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Ooooh. A warning. From the guys driving the clown car.

Rational Thought on August 10, 2014 at 9:36 AM

Dumb and Dumber.

Bishop on August 10, 2014 at 9:37 AM

“Don’t call my bluff!”

-Obama

Wethal on August 10, 2014 at 9:40 AM

Moose and squirrel.

battalion on August 10, 2014 at 9:44 AM

Putin is laughing his ass off.

bgibbs1000 on August 10, 2014 at 9:48 AM

What’s obama going to do? “I, um, er, what we, um, I, … .”

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 9:51 AM

Don’t worry, Joe Biden will go skinny dipping in the Dnieper River and scare the little green men away.

Krupnikas on August 10, 2014 at 9:51 AM

‘Cuz, seriously, folks, Putin really, really cares about what Dumb & Dumber think.

Resist We Much on August 10, 2014 at 9:52 AM

Anytime I hear Obama or Kerry warn someone about something, this clip comes to mind. Warning NSFW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TEvacFETvM

tom2789 on August 10, 2014 at 10:01 AM

Has Ukraine stopped shelling Donetsk yet?

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 10:04 AM

Talk about projection.

Ben Hur on August 10, 2014 at 10:06 AM

who ever thought a war could be as boring as this one

Mitochondrion on August 10, 2014 at 10:18 AM

These people used to be tragicomically inept and guffaw-inducing.

Now it’s yawns and eyerolls.

Really, guys?

Midas on August 10, 2014 at 10:19 AM

Ooooh. A warning. From the guys driving the clown car.

Rational Thought on August 10, 2014 at 9:36 AM

…or in Kerry’s case, the pink girls’ bicycle.

Putin’s probably shaking in his boots (or more like, convulsing in laughter) over that one.

jon1979 on August 10, 2014 at 10:19 AM

Has Ukraine stopped shelling Donetsk yet?

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 10:04 AM

What business is it of ours what Ukrainians do within their own border?

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:22 AM

No doubt Kerry thinks that since here in the USA people who try to help the needy get issued citations and fined for doing so, that threatening Putin and telling him to go thru incompetent crony aid orgs is the way to go.

Tell you what, Heinz-boy, send Putin a $700 fine and sic your IRS goons on him. Vlad will gladly you to stick it right up yours in “Theresa’s secret ketchup bottle warehouse” you commie braindead spineless commie freak.

Smegley on August 10, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Annnnnd what are WE doing in Iraq?

Hmmm?

Look, either we make a statement to the fact that Ukraine is “our ally” and we start treating it as such or we stop making hypocritical statements about affecting the sovereignty of other nations.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 10:36 AM

Shaking. In. Their. Boots.

tree hugging sister on August 10, 2014 at 10:39 AM

The Senate Morons Club is going to tell the guy from the KGB?

Do the math.

formwiz on August 10, 2014 at 10:41 AM

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 10:36 AM

What are we doing in Iraq?

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:44 AM

What are we doing in Iraq?

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:44 AM

Trying to look Prezzydential.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 10:47 AM

Throw your medals at them. That’ll shake ‘em up./

S. D. on August 10, 2014 at 10:48 AM

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 10:36 AM

What are we doing in Iraq?

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:44 AM

Just enough to keeps the poll numbers up.

obama does not care about the Yasidis nor the Christians.

All he cares about is destroying America.

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 10:49 AM

Has Ukraine stopped shelling Donetsk yet?

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 10:04 AM

What business is it of ours what Ukrainians do within their own border?

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:22 AM

There are a lot of people here at Hot Air who believe whatever the correct political line of the day is, plus they believe it is America’s business to butt into everyone elses business, and finally, no matter what, Russia is always the bad guy and we absolutely must prevent them from taking over the entire world.

Just remember, Putin and Russia are always with no exception the bad guys. Forget about the fact that Ukraine was a part of Russia from 1682 up until 1990. That half of all the people living in Ukraine consider themselves Russians. Just remember, Putin and Russia are always the bad guys, and can never be anything but the bad guys.

Also remember, that the same people here at Hot Air saying we should get involved in Russian internal affairs, are the exact same people who keep saying that America should give California to Mexico because 5 million plus illegal Mexicans invaded California.

No, they don’t make any sense, but they do love their hyperbolic political rhetoric.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM

Obama has more important things to do.

butch on August 10, 2014 at 10:54 AM

Who do dumb and dumber think they are feeling with, the GOP?

jukin3 on August 10, 2014 at 10:55 AM

Kerry, Biden warn Russia over crossing Ukraine border for “humanitarian” missions

While Vlady drinks their milkshakes.
Why we can’t have nice things when our “leaders” command no respect.

22044 on August 10, 2014 at 10:56 AM

Argh, feeling should be dealing. Dang autocorrect and my lack of proofreading.

But seriously, why are the only people afraid of Obama and his merry band of idiots in the world
are the republican leadership?

jukin3 on August 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM

I have often wondered how Americans would feel if an opportunity to cleanse the rottenness that is DC were to present itself militarily (the only way it would ever happen) and another country decided that they didn’t like that, and invaded.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM

I have often wondered how Americans would feel if an opportunity to cleanse the rottenness that is DC were to present itself militarily (the only way it would ever happen) and another country decided that they didn’t like that, and invaded.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM

Considering the number who would gladly give California to Mexico or China, or at least those who loudly claim that right here at Hot Air, I wonder that myself with a rather impending sense of doom.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:07 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM

Make no mistake. Putin IS a bad guy. He will happily do anything he can to make the US powerless as has been fomenting the revolution in the Ukraine that we signed a treaty with that we would defend them from outside invaders… aka Russia.

That’d be a good argument to make for opposing Putin’s actions there except we’re not making it. In fact our entire international policy is utterly incoherent, devoid of reason and has no rational foundation from which to make objective arguments (something you’d think a Hardvar lawyer nee constitutional perfessor would know about…)

To wit:
Obama on Ukraine: Putin should stop attacking Ukraine because it’s an attack on their sovereignty and let Ukraine’s civil war fight itself out.

Obama on Iraq: ISIS should stop attacking Iraq because it’s an attack on their sovereignty but it’s really a civil war and I’m going to throw bombs coz it makes me look good at home.

Obama on Israel: Israel should capitulate to Hamas’ attacks because I don’t like Israel.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 11:11 AM

There is a serious humanitarian problem in Donetsk and Lugsnsk. The rebels have offered an unconditional temporary cease fire to get aid into the area. The Kiev government has declined.

Now the US is threatening Russia if they provide help to civilians? Why aren’t we pressuring our allies in Kiev for a cease fire and fly in some relief packages ourselves? That would take away Putin’s angle of invasion “for the children”.

Bill-Republic of Texas on August 10, 2014 at 11:11 AM

Considering the number who would gladly give California to Mexico or China, or at least those who loudly claim that right here at Hot Air, I wonder that myself with a rather impending sense of doom.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:07 AM

Or the number who would give Texas… It might not just be an academic exercise and maybe that’s why certain Democrats are allying themselves with certain groups on the world stage?

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 11:12 AM

What business is it of ours what Ukrainians do within their own border? OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:22 AM

I could go Godwin on you here but I won’t, “isolationist” that I am. But don’t pretend that Russian shouldn’t see it as a provocation.

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:14 AM

Paging Al Sharpton:

About 200 people are rallying outside of a suburban St. Louis police department to protest the death of a black teenager who was shot by police – @AP

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 11:20 AM

Dumb and Dumber.

Bishop on August 10, 2014 at 9:37 AM

And Dumbest is on the links………………FOUR!

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 11:23 AM

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says Russia is in talks with Ukraine, International Red Cross and UN humanitarian agencies on need to send humanitarian aid to east Ukraine – @Reuters

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 11:25 AM

I have often wondered how Americans would feel if an opportunity to cleanse the rottenness that is DC were to present itself militarily (the only way it would ever happen) and another country decided that they didn’t like that, and invaded.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM

Let me put it another way. Say that the US was amassing troops and artillery on the Texas border, as ordered by the US president who had decided that he’d had it with Texas’ refusal to follow federal laws to the letter, and he was by God going to take over Texas.

I, for one, would welcome the help from certain other countries to oppose the possible US invasion, including their weapons and troops.

TXUS on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

What business is it of ours what Ukrainians do within their own border?

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 10:22 AM

And if China funded the overthrow of the Mexican government and was about to include Mexico into a military and economic alliance that would be no business of the United States? Wouldn’t be upsetting at all and the US government and you would be just fine with that?

I doubt that and I suspect the Russians feel about the same regarding the Ukraine.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:14 AM

Much as I admire Israel, had Hitler stayed within his own border, there would have been no WWII, yet Jews would still have died in similar numbers. So why did we not interfere in Russia, Cambodia and China, where millions also died because they were in the way?

I am not isolationist, but I don’t like the idea of foreigners butting into my country’s internal affairs, and would prefer to not interfere in theirs.

However, if Russia invades, all bets are off.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Joe Biden. Smart Power.

Stop laughing…

JohnGalt23 on August 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM

Make no mistake. Putin IS a bad guy. He will happily do anything he can to make the US powerless as has been fomenting the revolution in the Ukraine that we signed a treaty with that we would defend them from outside invaders… aka Russia.

That’d be a good argument to make for opposing Putin’s actions there except we’re not making it. In fact our entire international policy is utterly incoherent, devoid of reason and has no rational foundation from which to make objective arguments (something you’d think a Hardvar lawyer nee constitutional perfessor would know about…)

To wit:
Obama on Ukraine: Putin should stop attacking Ukraine because it’s an attack on their sovereignty and let Ukraine’s civil war fight itself out.

Obama on Iraq: ISIS should stop attacking Iraq because it’s an attack on their sovereignty but it’s really a civil war and I’m going to throw bombs coz it makes me look good at home.

Obama on Israel: Israel should capitulate to Hamas’ attacks because I don’t like Israel.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 11:11 AM

I suggest you get a copy of the so called treaty we signed with Ukraine, read it, and shut the hell up. We never promised to defend them. What that worthless piece of paper does say, is IF and only IF Ukraine were nuked, we would consider sending a strongly worded letter to the UN.

Second of all, learn the actual facts, Russia did not foment the Ukrainian revolution that is taking place, the EU did.

Putin is not the bad guy, he isn’t interested in making America weak, he is doing exactly what every leader of a sovereign nation does, putting the interests of his nation above those of everyone else. Putin is doing exactly what you hate Obama for not doing, Putin is protecting Russia’s national interests.

Yes, like it or not Russian National Security Interests are on the line in Ukraine, since the Russian Navy is ported in Crimea, and has been since the late 1600′s what happens in Ukraine is a matter of Russian National Security.

You seriously need to get this through your head, the rest of the world are not slaves to the United States, they are not Vassal States under any obligation what-so-ever to consider American National Interests above their own. They are going to do what they think is in their own best interest and screw the United States.

Vladamir Putin is a strong minded man who doesn’t give a rats ass what is in America’s best interests, he doesn’t first and foremost because he is the President of Russia and puts Russia’s National Interests first.

Keeping control of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is about as serious a Russian National Security Interest as it gets. That he didn’t start a war with the EU over this is a fluking miracle all by itself.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM

TXUS on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

I’m sure you would, but it’s still none of the invader’s business.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:31 AM

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

That would be an outside party becoming involved. Not the same thing – more like Russia involving itself in Ukraine’s affairs.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

I doubt that and I suspect the Russians feel about the same regarding the Ukraine.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Do you know any Russian’s or Ukrainian? I do, and I can tell you, they do not think what you think they do.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

However, if Russia invades, all bets are off. OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Are you saying that we should go to war with Russia over Ukraine? How many of your children are you willing to sacrifice?

Why did we go to war with N. Vietnam to stop Communist aggression when there was an aggressive Soviet client state 90 miles south of Miami? That’s a rhetorical question of course, you needn’t fret over it.

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

Keeping control of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is about as serious a Russian National Security Interest as it gets. That he didn’t start a war with the EU over this is a fluking miracle all by itself.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Which is why I didn’t get my knickers in a knot over Crimea.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:37 AM

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, If President Obama doesn’t go on offense, terrorists are ‘coming here’ – @HuffPostPol

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 11:37 AM

That would be an outside party becoming involved. Not the same thing – more like Russia involving itself in Ukraine’s affairs.
OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

Because as every serious student of history knows, the US has never ever done such a Tonkin. Er, thing.

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:40 AM

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

If, and I mean If Russia invades the Ukraine (not just the east), it won’t end there – Poland would be next because, at that point, Putin will be on the nose, and have nothing to lose by getting it all back.

We really wouldn’t have much choice in the matter, then.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM

David Burge @iowahawkblog · 1h

I’ll agree the US should stop acting as the world’s policeman, if you’ll agree the US should stop being the world’s refugee camp.

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM

That would be an outside party becoming involved. Not the same thing – more like Russia involving itself in Ukraine’s affairs.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

So the EU and the US aren’t involved?

BS.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Do you know any Russian’s or Ukrainian? I do, and I can tell you, they do not think what you think they do.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

The Russians are obviously concerned about the idea of NATO on their border and they would be insane not to be.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

However, if Russia invades, all bets are off. OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Are you saying that we should go to war with Russia over Ukraine? How many of your children are you willing to sacrifice?

Why did we go to war with N. Vietnam to stop Communist aggression when there was an aggressive Soviet client state 90 miles south of Miami? That’s a rhetorical question of course, you needn’t fret over it.

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

I don’t think that is what he is saying at all, it seems to me what he is saying is, that if Russia invades, then events will escalate out of control and no one will be able to predict what the consequences will be. I of course could be wrong, but that’s how I read what he is saying.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 11:40 AM

Agreed, and so did the British Empire, but I would like to think those days are over.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:45 AM

Seriously? These jackoffs think we are in some kind of position to “warn” the russians about anything? They laugh in our faces along with the rest of the world. We need better hashtags…………..

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 11:46 AM

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Offering to help with their debt (somewhat)? Hardly a takeover.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:49 AM

Putin shaking in his boots…..
(there is a point where you’ve laughed so hard, so long, that you just completely lose control over your body)

Another Drew on August 10, 2014 at 11:49 AM

The Russians are obviously concerned about the idea of NATO on their border and they would be insane not to be.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Nobody is going to do anything but talk nasty if the russians invade – that’s it. Big talk from small people…and putin knows it. As does the rest of the world. We are no longer feared or respected on the world stage thanks to the fools of this country that voted a scumbag loser to lead us.

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 11:50 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Correct, Sir.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:50 AM

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 11:46 AM

Yes, but, you see, they have to do something!

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:52 AM

Nobody is going to do anything but talk nasty if the russians invade – that’s it. Big talk from small people…and putin knows it. As does the rest of the world. We are no longer feared or respected on the world stage thanks to the fools of this country that voted a scumbag loser to lead us.

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 11:50 AM

The problem with swaggering little men like Kerry, Biden, McCain, and Obama is that their mouth has a tendency to issue checks they can’t cash.

Rather than be seen a fool they escalate hoping the other guy will let them walk away with some dignity. The problem comes when you are dealing with someone who can’t back down due to the gravity of the situation.

Then you get the Guns Of August which nobody wanted, but everyone got good and hard.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:57 AM

Yes, but, you see, they have to do something!

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:52 AM

#PleaseStopMakingUsLookLikeTheJackoffsThatWeAre…..Would have been better.

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 11:57 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

The Russians are obviously concerned about the idea of NATO on their border and they would be insane not to be.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

And the United States is worried about China, but neither one have anything to do with what they think about the situation in Ukraine. Half of Ukraine consider themselves Russian citizens and want Ukraine to return to being a Russian Provence. Half of Ukraine want to remain a independent nation.

The EU fomented this revolution because they wanted leverage over the prices of natural gas and crude oil being sold to them by Russia. Ukraine has only been a independent nation for 24 years it was part of Russia longer than the United States has even existed, 308 years, it didn’t gain it’s own independence, it was given to them when the Soviet Union collapsed because the Soviet Union went bankrupt.

This is not something that is in the United States National Security interests to be involved in. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has been Ported in Crimea since the late 1600′s. This is as legitimate a Russian National Security issue as it gets. We have no business meddling in it.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:58 AM

I love you guys.

Cindy Munford on August 10, 2014 at 11:59 AM

Then you get the Guns Of August which nobody wanted, but everyone got good and hard.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:57 AM

Dog eater never stood up to a bully in his life. He knows when to back down and he is good at it. The world now knows it as well. “Leading from behind”, “Red Line” “Don’t call my bluff”, showed the world the loser POS that leads us. Sad…….

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 12:01 PM

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Offering to help with their debt (somewhat)? Hardly a takeover.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:49 AM

The Russian Black Sea Fleet being Ported in Crimea, Russia desperately did not want Ukraine becoming a failed State torn apart by civil war, unfortunately that is exactly what the European Union wanted.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:02 PM

Agreed, and so did the British Empire, but I would like to think those days are over. OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 11:45 AM

Except that the coup-generated govt of Ukraine was installed by the western powers. I mean, google it. I gotta go shopping.

Akzed on August 10, 2014 at 12:02 PM

Rather than be seen a fool they escalate hoping the other guy will let them walk away with some dignity. The problem comes when you are dealing with someone who can’t back down due to the gravity of the situation.

Then you get the Guns Of August which nobody wanted, but everyone got good and hard.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:57 AM

Though we may disagree on other aspects of this very unfortunate situation, we could not see more eye to eye then on this.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM

And the United States is worried about China, but neither one have anything to do with what they think about the situation in Ukraine. Half of Ukraine consider themselves Russian citizens and want Ukraine to return to being a Russian Provence. Half of Ukraine want to remain a independent nation.

The EU fomented this revolution because they wanted leverage over the prices of natural gas and crude oil being sold to them by Russia. Ukraine has only been a independent nation for 24 years it was part of Russia longer than the United States has even existed, 308 years, it didn’t gain it’s own independence, it was given to them when the Soviet Union collapsed because the Soviet Union went bankrupt.

This is not something that is in the United States National Security interests to be involved in. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has been Ported in Crimea since the late 1600′s. This is as legitimate a Russian National Security issue as it gets. We have no business meddling in it.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:58 AM

I agree with everything you said. I would add that the ethnic breakdown is somewhat more complicated but the Ukraine is not and never has been a united country.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:04 PM

I suggest you get a copy of the so called treaty we signed with Ukraine, read it, and shut the hell up. We never promised to defend them. What that worthless piece of paper does say, is IF and only IF Ukraine were nuked, we would consider sending a strongly worded letter to the UN.
oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Golly… struck a nerve didn’t I Mr. Putin?

Yeah, I’ve read the memorandum and it’s obvious you certainly haven’t – We promised them security assurances. We’re not required to give military intervention but we promised that we wouldn’t leave them twisting in the wind if invaded.

Russia, conveniently points out (as I’m sure you defend) that it’s not an invasion per se but a humanitarian intervention.

Of course in your race to become a frothing white hot ball of trolling terror you’ve ignored my previous posts on this thread that point out we’re making the same case in Iraq… but not Israel even though similar treaties and moralities apply but are conveniently ignored.

But for the record, YES I DO think Putin is invading the Ukraine because it’s a rationale stepping point of the west to try to upset Russia’s sovereignty. Much as I would say (and do) that China doing the same thing in Mexico and Cuba affect us.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM

Even their sycophants in the press recognize these clowns have no credibility.

This period will be known as America’s dark age.

Lonetown on August 10, 2014 at 12:06 PM

Dog eater never stood up to a bully in his life. He knows when to back down and he is good at it. The world now knows it as well. “Leading from behind”, “Red Line” “Don’t call my bluff”, showed the world the loser POS that leads us. Sad…….

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 12:01 PM

He does, but international affairs can escalate out of control.

I would feel a whole lot better with someone far more stable in the White House.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:07 PM

O’Keefe. At it again:

You haven’t heard the whole story behind the border crisis . . . trust me, you won’t believe what we’re about to reveal in our U.S. border investigation next Monday.

There will be no Pulitzer, Peabody or Emmy awards after we release our story on Monday. They reserve those types awards for media who sit back and accept the government line at face value. We don’t. We seek out the truth. And we guarantee that our report on Monday will embarrass the government spokesmen and political leaders who want you to quietly accept that there’s no illegal immigration crisis, that the border is secure and that America is safe.

By now, you’ve heard of the tens of thousands of children fleeing from Central America. You may have even seen the media debating why the Border Patrol has stopped multiple Congressmen from viewing the border facilities that hold these children. After watching this story closely and hearing from law enforcement officials and American ranchers about what’s really happening on the border, we knew we had to investigate. I went to Texas this week to work with our investigative journalists who were already looking into the border crisis. I wanted to see for myself, so we went to the border to get a closer look. Let’s just say that we got a much closer look than we had planned. What we discovered will shock and outrage you.

https://www.projectveritas.com/theres-border-story/

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 12:08 PM

Even their sycophants in the press recognize these clowns have no credibility.

This period will be known as America’s dark age.

Lonetown on August 10, 2014 at 12:06 PM

dark age……………………..

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 12:08 PM

I agree with everything you said. I would add that the ethnic breakdown is somewhat more complicated but the Ukraine is not and never has been a united country.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:04 PM

Nor was Iraq… or Yugoslavia for that matter…

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:08 PM

He does, but international affairs can escalate out of control.

I would feel a whole lot better with someone far more stable in the White House.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:07 PM

I agree 100% but were stuck with the worthless POS for a few more years.

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Yeah, I’ve read the memorandum and it’s obvious you certainly haven’t – We promised them security assurances. We’re not required to give military intervention but we promised that we wouldn’t leave them twisting in the wind if invaded.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM

This is what was promised…

Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

So consult away!

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Golly… struck a nerve didn’t I Mr. Putin?

Yeah, I’ve read the memorandum and it’s obvious you certainly haven’t – We promised them security assurances. We’re not required to give military intervention but we promised that we wouldn’t leave them twisting in the wind if invaded.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM

I suggest you go back a re read it, because you apparently weren’t paying attention the first time. All we promised, was that IF and only IF they were nuked, we would send a strongly worded letter to the UN.

Content

Memorandum full text

According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[12]

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:02 PM

I’m in no position to know what the EU wanted, other than to use the Ukraine as a bargaining chip in energy discussions. However, it would not surprise me in the least – they think they are bigger than they actually are.

Having said that, every country tries to encourage friendly regimes in other countries, and Russia is no exception.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Nor was Iraq… or Yugoslavia for that matter…

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:08 PM

And they aren’t around anymore are they?

The Ukraine won’t survive either.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:13 PM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:02 PM

Having said that, every country tries to encourage friendly regimes in other countries, and Russia is no exception.

OldEnglish on August 10, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Indeed, every nation on earth engages in such behavior, the problem is, as sharrukin pointed out above, sometime the results are…

Rather than be seen a fool they escalate hoping the other guy will let them walk away with some dignity. The problem comes when you are dealing with someone who can’t back down due to the gravity of the situation.

Then you get the Guns Of August which nobody wanted, but everyone got good and hard.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:57 AM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:19 PM

This is what was promised…

Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

So consult away!

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

Oh sure… there’s lots of wiggle room in that contract and Obama has already pointed out that it’s not even a binding document.

Might as well say that it wasn’t a notorized document and that’s why we could pull the football away.

But that was never the intent that Clinton took political credit for because the Ukraine was giving away its ONLY ace in the hole to stop an invasion from a re-united Russia.

Think any other country will ever sign a contract with the US again on the world stage? Why should they?

Again, I know what Putin’s interests are here and I understand and respect them. I also understand what OUR interests are there and respect them. It’s a… private little war…

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:21 PM

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

Actually THIS is the full text and here’s the pertinent areas I’m talking about:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

Emphasis mine.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 12:08 PM

I hope it is huge.

Cindy Munford on August 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM

But that was never the intent that Clinton took political credit for because the Ukraine was giving away its ONLY ace in the hole to stop an invasion from a re-united Russia.

Do you really believe that those who wrote the document didn’t know exactly what they were doing?

They didn’t give any concrete assurances because there are no real world options if Russia does decide to invade.

Think any other country will ever sign a contract with the US again on the world stage? Why should they?

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:21 PM

That isn’t much of a reason to go to war over a non-existent clause in the Budapest Memorandum.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Cold War

Scold War

fogw on August 10, 2014 at 12:29 PM

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

Oh sure… there’s lots of wiggle room in that contract and Obama has already pointed out that it’s not even a binding document.

Might as well say that it wasn’t a notorized document and that’s why we could pull the football away.

But that was never the intent that Clinton took political credit for because the Ukraine was giving away its ONLY ace in the hole to stop an invasion from a re-united Russia.

Think any other country will ever sign a contract with the US again on the world stage? Why should they?

Again, I know what Putin’s interests are here and I understand and respect them. I also understand what OUR interests are there and respect them. It’s a… private little war…

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:21 PM

The only reason that memorandum exists, is to give the Ukrainian Government political cover for selling their Russian made nuclear weapons to the United States.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:30 PM

I hope it is huge.

Cindy Munford on August 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Yep, and I hope FOX, Rush, Levin, Savage all of them jump on this.

VegasRick on August 10, 2014 at 12:31 PM

Emphasis mine.

Skywise on August 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Comprehension obviously isn’t your strong suit.

oscarwilde on August 10, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Despite denials by Hamas, there is growing evidence that the terrorist group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [ISIS] — also known as “The Islamic State” — has begun operating in the Gaza Strip.

Palestinian Authority [PA] and Israeli security sources are convinced that followers of ISIS in the Gaza Strip are responsible for some of the recent rocket attacks on Israel.

Hamas, they say, seems to be losing control over the dozens of terror cells belonging to ISIS and other jihadi groups.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4392/isis-gaza#.U-eKmxK16CO.twitter

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 12:53 PM

Kerry warned China yesterday.

China and Russia die, laughing at the USA.

Ted Cruz in Iowa on Sat.

“It reminds you of a new diet that’s really quite popular in Washington these days. It’s called the Obama diet,” Cruz said after mentioning both the butter cow and a pork chop on a stick. “You just let Putin eat your lunch every day.”

Schadenfreude on August 10, 2014 at 1:15 PM

Has a single Imam in an American mosque denounced ISIS? I don’t suppose they can as ISIS is doing exactly what all Muslim’s “Perfect Man”, Mohammad, did himself and commanded his followers to do.

VorDaj on August 9, 2014 at 8:55 PM

“Core Al-Q” seems to have consolidated under one banner.

Whodathunkit?

/Certainly not Obysmal. Obviously.

Key West Reader on August 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM

Despite denials by Hamas, there is growing evidence that the terrorist group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [ISIS] — also known as “The Islamic State” — has begun operating in the Gaza Strip.

Palestinian Authority [PA] and Israeli security sources are convinced that followers of ISIS in the Gaza Strip are responsible for some of the recent rocket attacks on Israel.

Hamas, they say, seems to be losing control over the dozens of terror cells belonging to ISIS and other jihadi groups.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4392/isis-gaza#.U-eKmxK16CO.twitter

davidk on August 10, 2014 at 12:53 PM

“Core Al-Q” seems to have consolidated under one banner.

Whodathunkit?

/Certainly not Obysmal. Obviously.

Key West Reader on August 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM

Key West Reader on August 10, 2014 at 2:11 PM

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