Feinstein: We’re going to need more than a few airstrikes on ISIS

posted at 11:31 am on August 9, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

How has Barack Obama’s reactive strategy to the sweep of the Islamic State across Iraq been received so far in Washington? Not well, as critics arose across the partisan spectrum. “It takes an army to defeat an army,” Senator Dianne Feinstein said yesterday in regard to the threat ISIS now poses to the region — and the US:

Senate Intelligence Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein warned Friday of the risk that the insurgent group ISIL could be preparing fighters to attack American and European targets.

“It has become clear that ISIL is recruiting fighters in Western countries, training them to fight its battles in the Middle East and possibly returning them to European and American cities to attack us in our backyard,” the California Democrat said in a statement backing military action authorized by President Barack Obama. “We simply cannot allow this to happen.”

Feinstein called for a broader military campaign against ISIL, not just the targeted missions authorized by the president.

“It takes an army to defeat an army, and I believe that we either confront ISIL now or we will be forced to deal with an even stronger enemy in the future. Inaction is no longer an option. I support actions by the administration to coordinate efforts with Iraq and other allies to use our military strength and targeting expertise to the fullest extent possible,” Feinstein said.

That’s a sharp rebuke to Obama, who has tried to walk a tightrope between his claims of victory in Iraq and the acute need to stop the genocide of Yazidis. Obama spoke earlier today before flying off to his vacation on Marine One reinforcing his remarks on Thursday, promising nothing new. “Once again, America is proud to work” with our allies, Obama insisted, but announced no new efforts on their part other than diplomatic expressions of support. The only call Obama made was for Iraqis to unite, claiming again that “only Iraqis” can secure Iraq. Feinstein very obviously does not want to sit idly by while waiting for Iraqis to wipe out ISIS (or ISIL) in order to remove the threat to American national security.

Neither does Sen. Marco Rubio, her colleague across the aisle:

But America’s security interests extend well beyond the fate of Iraq’s religious minorities. Because ISIS, with thousands of foreign fighters, many of them from the West, will not rest once it has taken Erbil or Baghdad. Its expansionist ideology will lead it to attack U.S. allies in the region and eventually Europe and the United States.

We have seen time and again in recent decades that terrorist groups, once established, use safe havens to launch attacks on the United States and our interests. We ignore this history at our own peril.

Instead of confronting this challenge head on, President Obama has until now avoided taking decisive action. He has let the civil war in Syria simmer for years, creating the space for this jihadist threat to grow and letting instability spread to Syria’s neighbors. Even after ISIS captured Iraq’s second largest city, Mosul, in June, the President was hesitant in his response, sending several hundred military advisors but not confronting ISIS directly even as it made military gains. Now, we are rightfully providing food and water to people who face slaughter from extremists who have pledged to kill them. …

ISIS’s continued rise is not just a problem for Iraq or its neighbors. If we do not continue to take decisive action against ISIS now, it will be not just Iraqis or Syrians who continue to suffer, it will likely be Americans, as a result of a terrorist attack on the U.S. homeland or on our personnel overseas. America was faced with the same choice President Clinton faced in the 1990s during the emergence of al Qaeda: take action now, or we will be forced to take action in the future.

It is time to begin reversing this unprecedented tide of jihadist victories. America’s security and the safety of the American people are at stake.

For that matter, so does the Washington Post editorial board. Their editorial scolds Obama for clinging to his “minimalist and unrealistic” policies and start taking the threat seriously:

U.S. officials say that Mr. Obama has refrained from a broader campaign because he believes the Islamic State is “an Iraqi responsibility,” as Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel put it. The administration is pushing Iraq’s political factions, sharply divided along sectarian lines, to join in forming a new government; once such a government is formed, Mr. Obama said, “the United States will work with it and other countries in the region to provide increased support.”

The White House is hopeful that a new prime minister could be nominated this weekend. Even if that occurs, it will probably take Iraqis many more weeks to agree on a common political program, if they are able to do so at all. Kurds and Sunnis are demanding a major decentralization of power, and one of the “other countries” that the United States must balance is Iran, which seeks to perpetuate Shiite dominance in Baghdad. Meanwhile, as senior Kurdish leaders told the administration in a visit to Washington last month, Iraqi army and Kurdish forces probably cannot defeat the Islamic State on their own.

It’s past time for Mr. Obama to set aside a policy that is both minimalist and unrealistic. The United States should offer sustained military support to friendly forces that fight the Islamic State, beginning with the Kurds and including moderate Syrian rebels and Iraqi Sunni tribesmen. It should seek to erode the Islamic State’s military power as much as possible with airstrikes. It should not press for a new Iraqi government unless Shiite leaders and their Iranian sponsors agree to a fundamental restructuring of power. And it should forge a political and diplomatic strategy that encompasses both Iraq and Syria and their interrelated conflicts. The primary aim should not be to minimize U.S. involvement — as Mr. Obama would have it — but to defeat the forces that are destroying the region.

Obama spent a lot of time talking about the “weaknesses” of the Iraqi government, but kept insisting that if only Baghdad would reach out to the Sunnis and Kurds, the problems would be solved. The Shi’ites, though, have been facing this existential threat for months and still aren’t cooperating, because they don’t want to give up power and think Iran will bail them out.

Obama also suggested that Iraq’s Sunni neighbors would “join the fight” against ISIS, but … why would they do that? The Saudis in particular have been attempting to push Bashar Assad out of Syria, which led to the vacuum that allowed ISIS to metastasize. Does Obama really think that the Saudis will join a military campaign against ISIS that will benefit Assad, Maliki, and Iran in the short run? Does he think the Jordanians will go to war against ISIS in western Iraq? Why would either of these nations do so when the US insists it will sit it out? The only neighboring nation that would launch military strikes against ISIS might be Israel, which this administration has spent the last several weeks attempting to hamstring while Hamas lobs missiles at civilian population centers.

No one will march into western Iraq to fight ISIS without the US leading the way … which means no one will be fighting ISIS other than the collapsing Iraqi forces for the foreseeable future, and the Kurds who are bravely attempting to protect their homeland from the barbarian horde that threatens to overrun them.

In today’s final question, Obama got challenged on whether he should have left troops in Iraq after all. Obama proceeded to offer a cynical and disingenuous exercise in buck-passing, claiming that it was all Iraq’s fault that American troops were not left in the country. Let’s recall that Obama bragged about bringing all the troops home in the 2012 election, and that it was well known that the US had a clear opening for a follow-on force. Instead, Obama and Joe Biden blew off the negotiations, refusing to even come to the phone in an attempt to salvage them. He got the short-term boost to his approval ratings that he sought at the time, and now when his approval levels are cratering, Obama claims he was helpless to do anything in the face of Iraqi intransigence. Not only will few buy that explanation, those who do will have to explain how being impotent with Maliki makes Obama a foreign-policy genius.

Well, it’s never his fault, right?


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The Muslims started this fight. By 2008 we won the fight. In 2009 the Muslims saw a weak kneed community organizing hack with no talent other than reading a screen full of words, and they took action.

After AMERICA won the war in Iraq, Obama gave the country back to his Allies – The Muslims.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 4:29 PM

Rumor has it that Iraq is filled with Muslims.

I guess I am wondering how you ever win in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan when you have Sharia law enshrined in the constitutions and you have to hand the country over to the Muslim majority?

How will that ever not end up in the crapper sooner or later?

Obama certainly made it worse as he makes everything worse, but fundamentally there is nothing that can be called victory in a democratic Iraq. The people of Iraq WANT Sharia law (91%). How do you win anything when these are the people who you are handing things over to?

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 4:39 PM

Feinstein: We’re going to need more than a few airstrikes on ISIS

That would require Obama to not deny reality when it conflicts with his ideology. He is far too ideological to be willing to admit that terrorism can’t be contained with a few airstrikes and special forces missions.

On the plus side, ISIS will still be around and causing trouble when Obama is no longer president, and the next president can take firmer actions to put them out of business.

Assuming they’re not too firmly entrenched by that time, represented by UN ambassadors, and sitting on the UN Human Rights Council.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Partition the country.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 11:35 AM

We tried that solution in 1860….

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 4:42 PM

When the going gets tough, King Barack goes on vacation.

Priorities.

GarandFan on August 9, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Partition the country.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 11:35 AM

Under who’s authority?

/Fascist Progressive Liberal Lunk Head

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Terrible,terrible, it is time to wipe out ISIS and any other Muslims hellbent to murder Christians and Jews, and other Muslims who don’t bow to them. I do mean with extreme prejudice! Nuclear if needed! Decimation should be the goal.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 4:52 PM

It has become clear that ISIL is recruiting fighters in Western countries, training them to fight its battles in the Middle East and possibly returning them to European and American cities to attack us in our backyard,” the California Democrat said in a statement backing military action authorized by President Barack Obama. “We simply cannot allow this to happen.”

Notice how the enemy is now ‘ISIL’. Obama started using the new title of respect, so the useful idiots are parroting

possibly returning them to European and American cities to attack us in our backyard,”

They are here. It is called ‘open borders’

Senate Intelligence Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein

Gives a new meaning to oxymoron

I say, arm her up, drop her behind ISI ‘L’ lines, and let her lead the charge. Get off her rear end and put her money where her rear end is

entagor on August 9, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Obama has the blood of the innocent on his hands for not stopping IS weeks ago. Christians, Yazidis, Kurds and all else in harm’s way cried out to America for help, but Obama looked the other way. May the name Obama be cursed forevermore.

otlset on August 9, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Weeks ago…and quit calling them “ISIL”.

Schadenfreude on August 9, 2014 at 5:19 PM

Decimation Annihilation should be the goal.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 4:52 PM

.
Decimation is too light a penalty.

ExpressoBold on August 9, 2014 at 5:21 PM

Democracy in the heart of the Muslim world was one of the dumbest ideas every thought of by the Bush Administration.
There is a reason why Israel is a successful democracy and that’s because they are not Muslims.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 1:23 PM

Democracy is always a stupid idea. That’s why we don’t have one.

It’s not hard to figure out. Democracy assumes that people can always be counted on to do what is in their own long-term best interests. But if people were that blameless, we wouldn’t need government at all.

The failure in Iraq is not the failure of Muslims so much as the failure of a simplistic vision of democracy. What they need is a strong level of self-rule at the community and provincial level, and a federal national government that is at least partly constituted according to the local and provincial governments, complete with checks and balances to ensure that the national government can’t do anything to bully or oppress local governments.

But you have one part of Iraq feeling oppressed and dominated by the majority rule of their rivals, and actually welcoming — or at least, accepting — foreign invaders.

That said, Islam is often at cross-purposes with self-rule. But the real failure is the naive assumption that any form of government that is called democracy will therefore work. Our own government, for example, worked much better when Senators were chosen directly by the states and accountable to them, instead of being popularly elected as if they were just a slightly smaller version of the House of Representatives.

Democracy is not a magic word. It’s become popular to refer to our government as a democracy, but the Founding Fathers would have rejected such a designation vehemently. They knew way back then that you can’t trust a democracy. They are unstable by nature.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 5:22 PM

We tried that solution in 1860….

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Well, one side tried. The stronger side wasn’t willing to let the weaker side out of their control.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Rumor has it that Iraq is filled with Muslims.

I guess I am wondering how you ever win in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan when you have Sharia law enshrined in the constitutions and you have to hand the country over to the Muslim majority?

How will that ever not end up in the crapper sooner or later?

Obama certainly made it worse as he makes everything worse, but fundamentally there is nothing that can be called victory in a democratic Iraq. The people of Iraq WANT Sharia law (91%). How do you win anything when these are the people who you are handing things over to?

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 4:39 PM

Very well said.
As long as Iraq is a Muslim nation this was always going to happen at some point.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 5:24 PM

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 5:22 PM

…we all know the difference between a pure democracy and the Jeffersonian Republic we have…it is a form of democracy.

The Founding Fathers also didn’t (officially) acknowledge political parties, career politicians and bureaucracies that answer only to themselves…yet these all existed back then.

Looking back, it would seem that ALL political systems don’t work from monarchies on down. They’ve all failed and collapsed at some point, or are collapsing. Anarchy doesn’t work, either. People don’t want to be bothered anymore. It’s all about ME and which portions of our nervous systems we can stimulate with the most pleasurable results.

So, that just leaves the possibility that we humans are a bunch of flawed primates with only a better existence after death to look forward to.

“Mankind is a sad lot.”

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Schadenfreude on August 9, 2014 at 5:19 PM

It’s important for people to know that the organization is the same under any of its three ‘names’. So I post them all.

Further, they’re giving people in Mosul 70 lashes for referring to them by their former name “ISIL”, rather than their new name “IS” because they think it no longer suits them.

thatsafactjack on August 9, 2014 at 5:48 PM

Very well said.
As long as Iraq is a Muslim nation this was always going to happen at some point.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 5:24 PM

Why?

/Betcha gonna scratch your hipster beard over how to answer that question.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 5:51 PM

So, that just leaves the possibility that we humans are a bunch of flawed primates with only a better existence after death to look forward to.

“Mankind is a sad lot.”

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 5:35 PM

DAWNOF THE PLANET OF THE APES.

/Don’t call me racist – we are all Primates. Whether we choose to unite or choose to remain divided under Obama is the question that must be addressed, and answered by the American People.

We will decide our future.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 5:54 PM

I don’t have issue using our forces to take care of the issue BUT the roe must err on side of soldier.
and treat it like a damned war not more of this post korea peace keeping crap.
see a gathering of isil/s on a road. drop a fuel/air bomb or a nuke.
fight to win.

dmacleo on August 9, 2014 at 5:56 PM

This is the Face Of America in the eyes of ISIS

Somebody bring out a Gong and Vaudeville Hook.

/So embarrassing.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Islam knows no country or nationality, just islam, it knows no family but islam and it knows no justice but sharia. Few muslims have any fidelity to their countries or families, which is why muslim countries are unsuccessful crapholes of poverty, death, sickness and terrorism. Islam has contributed nothing good to the world in it’s entire existence…because nothing trumps islam.

AppraisHer on August 9, 2014 at 6:01 PM

Where is Feinstein’s district? Is there a military installation?

crankyoldlady on August 9, 2014 at 6:05 PM

We will decide our future.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 5:54 PM

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Man, you’re killin’ me!

Yeah, maybe if we put down the beer cans or joints long enough, turn off the boob tube, and spend at least as much time trying to speak up and insure our Liberty as we do trying to get laid…we might just do it.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 6:05 PM

My daughter,(12 years old) pointed out to my wife, that the U.S. military will have a free hand this time. Basically Obama is trapped. His party is literally falling apart, and it’s survival as a national party is in doubt. Or as she puts it.”Mommy, the Dem’s die if O does nothing.” Sometimes it helps to be young.

flackcatcher on August 9, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Or as she puts it.”Mommy, the Dem’s die if O does nothing.” Sometimes it helps to be young.

flackcatcher on August 9, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Intelligent child. Whether she’s right or not it’s interesting she keeps track of current events. Her friends are probably playing video games and hanging out at the mall.

crankyoldlady on August 9, 2014 at 6:13 PM

More Than ISIS: Iraq’a Sunni Insurgency

thatsafactjack on August 9, 2014 at 6:15 PM

You have to love the Kurds. Good people.

crankyoldlady on August 9, 2014 at 6:17 PM

Islam knows no country or nationality, just islam, it knows no family but islam and it knows no justice but sharia. Few muslims have any fidelity to their countries or families, which is why muslim countries are unsuccessful crapholes of poverty, death, sickness and terrorism. Islam has contributed nothing good to the world in it’s entire existence…because nothing trumps islam.

AppraisHer on August 9, 2014 at 6:01 PM
That is why every Muslim must destroyed, hunted down and killed. They are the plague on the planet. The Crusades did not go far enough, they left a remanent to seed and come to life. This time we must snuff them out!
The world will have no peace nor safety until we do.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Ready to strike: How the US is armed to the teeth in the Middle East after moving ships, jets and troops within striking distance… and Britain has its base in the Med to drop aid from

U.S. forces have spent last two months moving ships, weapons and troops within close proximity of conflict zone

Two F/A18 fighters flew from American ‘supercarrier’ in Persian Gulf to fire 500lb laser-guided bombs on ISIS group

Jets were on USS George H.W. Bush, which travelled 1,000 miles from Arabian Sea to Persian Gulf seven weeks ago

thatsafactjack on August 9, 2014 at 4:47 PM

Those articles appear to be propaganda pumped out by Barry to look tough. I don’t see anything there that is unusual and not part of regular deployment.

If President Prissypants McChoomer wanted forces in the area he should not have prematurely pulled them out of Iraq.

slickwillie2001 on August 9, 2014 at 6:20 PM

There’s a new sheriff in town

butch on August 9, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Partition the country.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 11:35 AM

How? Got a few earthmovers handy? A backhoe or three?

The Kurds may start forming up Lesser Kurdistan… if they don’t get wiped from the Earth due to lack of ammo. Then you won’t have to bother with a ‘partition’ as there will be no more Kurds nor Yezidis nor Christians in northern Iraq. Then you will have a Caliphate.

A partition assumes surviving ethnic and religious enclaves.

A partition assumes actually going in and arming people in their self-defense so that you can GET a partition.

Thus pro-partition is ALSO pro-intervention at this point.

And the best part about getting a Lesser Kurdistan? It will start to absorb eastern Syria, parts of northwestern Iran, a good chunk of lower Turkey… and help Armenians and Azeris. It might just push to the Med if, and only if, we arm them well enough to actually wipe out ISIS.

I’m all for it!

Glad you joined up!

Thank you for going against the Caliphate!

Being anti-empire has consequences.

ajacksonian on August 9, 2014 at 6:20 PM

That is why every Muslim must destroyed, hunted down and killed. They are the plague on the planet. The Crusades did not go far enough, they left a remanent to seed and come to life. This time we must snuff them out!

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Hey look, a supporter of genocide.

Nonfactor on August 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM

slickwillie2001 on August 9, 2014 at 6:20 PM

The movement and position of the forces is a matter of record. I’m not any fonder of Obama than you are, and I have my own opinions regarding why those forces were reposition when they were, but the fact that they were moved is not in question.

thatsafactjack on August 9, 2014 at 6:23 PM

Somewhere Dubya smiles.

Partition the country.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 11:35 AM

You mean The Joe Solution?

formwiz on August 9, 2014 at 6:28 PM

That is why every Muslim must destroyed, hunted down and killed. They are the plague on the planet. The Crusades did not go far enough, they left a remanent to seed and come to life. This time we must snuff them out!

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Here ya go, and good luck!

Cheap Flights to Baghdad

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 6:28 PM

Nonfactor on August 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM
Yeah, well you remember that when they come for your head! I plan on keeping mine.
It’s what they call WAR, and in a war you want to win, not die. If you don’t now take these people (ISIS ) at their word, you will when they bend you over to lop off your head.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:30 PM

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 6:28 PM

+1k

Hah! I bet Bakokitty is off in a skating rink or movie theater or in a StarBucks somewhere. And she votes.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 6:32 PM

It’s what they call WAR, and in a war you want to win, not die. If you don’t now take these people (ISIS ) at their word, you will when they bend you over to lop off your head.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:30 PM

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 6:28 PM

+1k

Hah! I bet Bakokitty is off in a skating rink or movie theater or in a StarBucks somewhere. And she votes.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 6:32 PM

I apologize, Bakokitty. If I could remove my comment I would.

Just a little jumpy lately, like everybody else. Again, my apologies.

Best,
L

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 6:34 PM

thatsafactjack on August 9, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Thanks, Jackie.

pambi on August 9, 2014 at 6:42 PM

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 6:28 PM

+1k

Hah! I bet Bakokitty is off in a skating rink or movie theater or in a StarBucks somewhere. And she votes.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 6:32 PM

Hate to disappoint you both, but perhaps I’m a bit more hawkish than you. I’m not feeling very tolerant of anyone who wants to see the country I love destroyed. Better them than us. I also don’t want to see the rest of civilization destroyed by Islam. I’m guessing you would rather we wait until we are attacked on our shores again before we decide to defend our country and our way of life, like we did in WWII and after 9/11. well, I don’t!
SKMA

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:44 PM

Where is Feinstein’s district? Is there a military installation?

crankyoldlady on August 9, 2014 at 6:05 PM

.
Oh no ya don’t! They have to employ the gerrymandering rule for Senators… remember that one?

ExpressoBold on August 9, 2014 at 6:48 PM

Iraq Crisis: Thousands of Shiite Volunteers Join Iraq Army To Fight ISIS

Move, though necessary to replenish losses suffered by the Iraq military, sparks fears of increased sectarian violence. US spent years trying to ‘balance’ Sunni and Shiite troops in Iraq military.

thatsafactjack on August 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Iraq crisis
12m
Officials: U.S. military forces conducted 4 more airstrikes in Iraq – @NBCNightlyNews
End of alert

https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews
==================================

NBC Nightly News @NBCNightlyNews · 20m

JUST IN: U.S. military forces conducted 4 more airstrikes today to defend civilians against ISIS militants in Iraq, @DeptofDefense says

https://twitter.com/DeptofDefense

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 6:53 PM

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 6:54 PM

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 6:34 PM
Apology accepted. I have not forgotten my mother’s stories of what it was like to be bombed by the Nazis in London,nor the Japanese my step-dad fought on Guam, theirs was a generation who recognized evil in the world and chose to fight it,by any means necessary to WIN. We living in America have much to thank them for,our children and all future generations of the world will count on us to step up and do what is needed as well.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:55 PM

Who is this ‘we’ of which she speaks?
The dems may lie in their own filth on this, screw ‘em.

Tard on August 9, 2014 at 6:57 PM

crankyoldlady on August 9, 2014 at 6:13 PM
Thank you. She does that too, but only once and while. My wife is very strict, and to be honest she thinks the mall is boring.(Well, in southeastern Wisconsin, there are no more strictly speaking malls.) Growing up the daughter of a Marine is stressful. There is no one more aware of what can happen on deployment, than your child. She has grown up around people speaking different languages other than her own, and has watched her father and her friends fathers deployed time and time again to places most Americans cannot pronounce. So she has a view of what’s going on, plus she is flat out smart. In short she gets it. She believes in this country future, because she thinks she is going to be running it.(Sometimes she’s too smart for her own good!)

flackcatcher on August 9, 2014 at 6:57 PM

Hate to disappoint you both, but perhaps I’m a bit more hawkish than you. I’m not feeling very tolerant of anyone who wants to see the country I love destroyed. Better them than us. I also don’t want to see the rest of civilization destroyed by Islam. I’m guessing you would rather we wait until we are attacked on our shores again before we decide to defend our country and our way of life, like we did in WWII and after 9/11. well, I don’t!
SKMA

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 6:44 PM

Just messing with you. Calm down.

I don’t like this scum, either, but we’re stone cold broke. We can only do so much to help these people over there. I’d like to see the USAF carpet bomb the crap out of ISIS with B-52s just as much as you. Besides, look at history. How much “help” have we ever really been? Who have we saved? All I can come up with are the South Koreans…and how many did that cost us?

As for our country being attacked, I think the greatest danger is the soft kill going on from the inside by men and women dressed smartly in business attire, many of whom are in our own government.

These terrorist groups always run up against another group who take them down a few notches, and/or their hot shot leaders grow old and retire or die. Who’s really afraid of the PLO these days?

As for 9/11, how did being the biggest, baddest kid on the block save us from that one? And don’t forget, the WTC was attacked not once but TWICE. Do you really think that our current power structure is concerned about defending the average American Citizen?

I would never be for wholesale slaughter of Muslims. Those that want to carry guns and shoot unarmed people and attack us? I could go for that. But remember that most Muslims by far and away are killed by fellow Muslims.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 7:02 PM

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 9, 2014 at 7:02 PM
Don’t forget the PLO, morphed into Hamas. The soft kill inside our borders will be the direct result of not locking down our borders, and had we used our previous immigration policies in place before 1965, perhaps those 9/11 Arabs wouldn’t have been taking flying lesson on our soil.
No, I don’t particularly want to see carpet bombing, at this point in time that won’t be effective enough. War is hell and civilians always get killed in a war, and harsh as it is,it may be time soon to use a more permanent method.
There are always good people in every country, but Islam demands they follow the Koran, and the Koran says they must convert or killed ALL non believers. Don’t ever forget that.

Bakokitty
Beware of the ungloved cat.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

Bram Janssen
@BramJanssen

Videographer – The Associated Press.
Iraq
vimeo.com/bramjanssen
Joined January 2009

https://twitter.com/BramJanssen

Bram Janssen @BramJanssen · 5h

Reading reports that 20 #IS fighters died in air strikes. I hear lots of different numbers from different sources, so not reliable.

Bram Janssen @BramJanssen · 5h

Can’t say. Only hearing the sounds now. RT@pinto_p: has US expanded drone operations ? are they flying them out of Erbil airport ?”

Bram Janssen @BramJanssen · 6h

The sun has gone down. From a far distance I hear the sounds of fighting in the background and planes flying over. #IS ISIS

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:24 PM

Heres how ISIS needs to be handled,…..enjoy!!

Fighter Copters gone wild, (IRAQ)
**********************************

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2sDNT91Rzw

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:28 PM

The sun has gone down. From a far distance I hear the sounds of fighting in the background and planes flying over. #IS ISIS

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:24 PM

Crush them. For good.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 7:28 PM

NO SH*T:)

https://twitter.com/NATOSource

Retweeted by NATOSource
Capital Journal @WSJPolitics · 17h

Obama leads the most powerful military in the world and has become defined by his reluctance to use it. http://on.wsj.com/V4VWQL
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For Obama, Iraq Move Is a Policy Reversal
President Was Early Opponent of Iraq War and Made a Campaign Pledge to End It
Updated Aug. 8, 2014 9:44 a.m. ET
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WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama stepped in front of the cameras on Thursday to utter words he hoped he would never say as commander in chief.

“I’ve therefore authorized targeted airstrikes if necessary to help forces in Iraq,” Mr. Obama said in a statement from the White House. “Today America is coming to help.”

The return to military engagement in Iraq is a reversal for Mr. Obama, whose early opposition to the war that toppled Saddam Hussein, and his promise to end it, fueled his long-shot campaign for the White House.

It also puts a spotlight on what has become a familiar feature of the Obama presidency, in which the leader of the most powerful military in the world has become defined by his reluctance to use it.

“They’re very, very wary,” said Barry Pavel, a former defense official and director of the Brent Scowcroft Center on International Security at the Atlantic Council. “There are situations that will come up in the world where that wariness is tested in order to ensure that U.S. national security interests will be protected.”
(More………)
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http://online.wsj.com/articles/for-obama-iraq-move-is-a-policy-reversal-1407470613

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:38 PM

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:24 PM

Crush them. For good.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 7:28 PM

Key West Reader: Agreed,…..JDAM, MOAB there *ss’s to Hell:)

70 JDAM Airstrikes In 7 Minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTOp6pJk8xU

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:42 PM

Heres how ISIS needs to be handled,…..enjoy!!

Fighter Copters gone wild, (IRAQ)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2sDNT91Rzw

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 7:28 PM
Hey canopfor, question, was this video from first Iraq war? I remember seeing that before.
In any case always good to watch our guys in action.

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 7:47 PM

Hey look, a supporter of genocide.

Nonfactor on August 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM

But you would rather argument in semantics than actually address the root of the problem.

A liberal or conservative president’s policy won’t solve this problem. The problem here is not a presidential policy but a religious ideology which the mainstream PC media refuse to touch.

Islam is the problem.
Any other argument and you are just circling the wagons.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Bakokitty on August 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

HAMAS is a separate organization started by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood as its ‘armed wing’. It is one of the things to remember about HAMAS in Gaza: the Egyptian MB is willing to expend any number of Palestinian lives to get what they want. And the Palestinians in Gaza elected HAMAS over the PLO, which would be hilarious if there wasn’t so much blood involved. The PLO is more a terror organization for getting cash for kleptocrats, while HAMAS is just interested in fostering the start of a caliphate and seeking to take Jerusalem as a symbol of the MB’s power, which means killing off the Jews. Palestinians get the shaft from both these groups, but one has bloodier hands and footprints.

HAMAS joining ISIS means that the work in Gaza is just part of a larger MB/ISIS plan for getting their caliphate. A good plan it isn’t, but it is all they have after the ‘Arab Spring’ imploded and the MB got kicked out of power.

ajacksonian on August 9, 2014 at 8:05 PM

From IOWA:
==========

https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz

Senator Ted Cruz @SenTedCruz · Aug 8

The Obama foreign policy has created chaos across the globe and has made the world much more dangerous https://soundcloud.com/senator-ted-cruz/sen-ted-cruz-with-simon-conway-1
SoundCloud

https://soundcloud.com/senator-ted-cruz/sen-ted-cruz-with-simon-conway-1

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 8:07 PM

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 8:07 PM

And to think that Obama could have gotten peace on the cheap with the SOFA, and some stationed troops in Iraq.

But the Evil Bush started the Wrong War, so Obama didn’t have the brains to end it with peace and, instead, left the war unfinished.

ISIS would like to finish it now.

Obama came in promising peace and, instead, delivers longer and worse war killing more. So if Bush was so stupid to start the war, how depraved and wicked is Obama for not taking peace when it was cheap?

ajacksonian on August 9, 2014 at 8:12 PM

So then, you’ll be leading the critical effort now to secure the borders, DiFi?

/Head-Desk

ShainS on August 9, 2014 at 11:40 AM

Thank you for posting exactly what I was thinking, ShainS! I got to this thread late, so I am relieved to see you and others already had this important point covered.

Alas, Senator Dianne Feinstein lives in the Sanctuary City of San Francisco. The city of which she was Mayor 1978-1988, when the Sanctuary City movement was in its full glory.

It is highly unlikely that Dianne Feinstein will do anything to stop the ILLEGAL invasion of our southern border.

Our best hope is that this should be 81 year old Dianne Feinstein’s last term as a Senator.

wren on August 9, 2014 at 8:13 PM

But you would rather argument in semantics than actually address the root of the problem.

A liberal or conservative president’s policy won’t solve this problem. The problem here is not a presidential policy but a religious ideology which the mainstream PC media refuse to touch.

Islam is the problem.
Any other argument and you are just circling the wagons.

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Hear Hear!

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 8:13 PM

While Eating a Pork Chop In Iowa, Sen. Ted Cruz Tells Obama To Stop Golfing And Do His Job
By: Jason Easley more from Jason Easley
Saturday, August, 9th, 2014, 5:15 pm
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Irony challenged Sen. Ted Cruz (TX) told President Obama to stop golfing and do his job while he was enjoying his roughly 108th day of vacation this year at the Iowa State Fair.

Jeff Zeleny of ABC News tweeted that Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) was talking tough by telling President Obama to get off of the golf course and do his job:

https://twitter.com/jeffzeleny

Jeff Zeleny ✔ @jeffzeleny
Follow

In Iowa, @SenTedCruz: “The president should actually stand up and do his job as commander in chief…spend less time on the golf course.”
3:45 PM – 9 Aug 2014

(More…..)

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/08/09/eating-pork-chop-iowa-sen-ted-cruz-tells-obama-stop-golfing-job.html

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 8:18 PM

The failure in Iraq is not the failure of Muslims so much as the failure of a simplistic vision of democracy.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Nonsense on stilts.

Even a simplistic “vision of democracy” assumes the sovereignty of the INDIVIDUAL and the free exercise of his or her rights. Islam assumes no such thing; it cannot. It assumes only the sovereignty of the group.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 8:29 PM

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 8:18 PM

Oh, good Lord, what an azz, Jason Easly !

pambi on August 9, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Pro Tip:

ISIS doesn’t make idle threats.

BobMbx on August 9, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Pro Tip:

ISIS doesn’t make idle threats.

BobMbx on August 9, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Butt, Obama does.. and ISIS knows it.

Key West Reader on August 9, 2014 at 8:40 PM

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 8:18 PM

Oh, good Lord, what an azz, Jason Easly !

pambi on August 9, 2014 at 8:32 PM

pambi: Yups,………ABC News:)

canopfor on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

The failure in Iraq is not the failure of Muslims so much as the failure of a simplistic vision of democracy.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Nonsense on stilts.

Even a simplistic “vision of democracy” assumes the sovereignty of the INDIVIDUAL and the free exercise of his or her rights. Islam assumes no such thing; it cannot. It assumes only the sovereignty of the group.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 8:29 PM

You’re missing the point. The “simplistic vision of democracy” assumes that people will automatically rule themselves wisely if given the chance.

That doesn’t work for Muslims, but it doesn’t work for anyone else, either. Give any nation a purely democratic form of government, and it will degenerate into fascism in short order.

The Founding Fathers carefully set up a federal system where the power was divided among legislative, executive, and judicial functions, where the legislative branch was split up into a house of representatives chosen by popular election, and a Senate of representatives chosen by the states. They added a Constitution, limitations on the power of the national government, reserved the powers to the state governments except for those specifically enumerated to the national government, and added all sorts of checks and balances where one faction of government could put a stop to overreach by another faction.

And with all that, John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

The assumption that democracy would work in Iraq just because they wanted democracy was foolish. Iraq, and most Muslim countries, has a far greater need for a carefully structured and balanced Constitutional Republic than we do, and it needs to be structured to prevent one faction of Islam from using government power to punish another faction of Islam.

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

No it’s not.

The only functioning democracy in that part of the world happens to be Israel.

Think about that for a second.
What makes the Jews different from the Muslims then?

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 9:04 PM

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

So why did it work in Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania?

And why didn’t it work in Tunisia, the Gaza Strip, Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now even Turkey with ther resurgence of Islam?

There are many European states who do not emulate US Democratic forms and they work reasonably well.

Islam is the problem.

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 9:14 PM

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

No it’s not.

The only functioning democracy in that part of the world happens to be Israel.

Think about that for a second.

What makes the Jews different from the Muslims then?

Dave’sStillNotHere on August 9, 2014 at 9:04 PM

FIFY

F-

Del Dolemonte on August 9, 2014 at 9:17 PM

Feinstein becomes Chief Brody after realizing how big the threat really is:

“We’re gonna need a bigger boat”

BobMbx on August 9, 2014 at 9:24 PM

You’re missing the point. The “simplistic vision of democracy” assumes that people will automatically rule themselves wisely if given the chance.

That doesn’t work for Muslims, but it doesn’t work for anyone else, either. Give any nation a purely democratic form of government, and it will degenerate into fascism in short order.

The Founding Fathers carefully set up a federal system where the power was divided among legislative, executive, and judicial functions, where the legislative branch was split up into a house of representatives chosen by popular election, and a Senate of representatives chosen by the states. They added a Constitution, limitations on the power of the national government, reserved the powers to the state governments except for those specifically enumerated to the national government, and added all sorts of checks and balances where one faction of government could put a stop to overreach by another faction.

And with all that, John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

The assumption that democracy would work in Iraq just because they wanted democracy was foolish. Iraq, and most Muslim countries, has a far greater need for a carefully structured and balanced Constitutional Republic than we do, and it needs to be structured to prevent one faction of Islam from using government power to punish another faction of Islam.

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

Well, it may be simplistic but it’s the case. The reason Islam is incompatible with democracy is, as I have stated, in order for democracy to have a chance in a society, that society must have a fundamental appreciation for the sovereignty of the individual and his rights. That appreciation must be ingrained. It cannot be mandated, legislated, or taught in an academic sense. It must be ingrained through generations of conditioning through practice. We in the West take it for granted, ignoring that our appreciation for its fundamentals took centuries to develop.

Islam, by its very nature, is contradictory and hostile to that process.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 9:33 PM

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

No it’s not.

The only functioning democracy in that part of the world happens to be Israel.

Think about that for a second.
What makes the Jews different from the Muslims then?

weedisgood on August 9, 2014 at 9:04 PM

Turkey is Muslim. Pakistan is Muslim. Saying Islam is incompatible with “democracy” in the broad sense you keep wanting to use — republics with democratically elected leaders — is obviously false.

Therefore, claiming Iraq is incapable of being a “democracy” in the broad sense is also false.

So, yes, “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:37 PM

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

I’m hoping you are not defining democracy as people voting for their leaders.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 9:44 PM

To just dismiss it all as “Islam is incompatible with democracy” is incredibly simplistic.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

So why did it work in Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania?

And why didn’t it work in Tunisia, the Gaza Strip, Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now even Turkey with ther resurgence of Islam?

There’s never a guarantee that “democracy” will work. Failure is generally the more likely outcome. The problem in Iraq is the majority Shiite population trying to use the government against the minority Sunnis. Democracy alone won’t fix that. You need a Constitutional republic structured to prevent factions warring against other factions. We’re too quick to see a democratic form of legislature and a democratically elected leader and declare “Problem solved.”

There are many European states who do not emulate US Democratic forms and they work reasonably well.

Islam is the problem.

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Many European states are fairly homogenous, and don’t have violently opposed interests. They don’t have to be structured along US lines.

Iraq on the other hand contains Sunnis and Shiites, and needs structure, protection of minorities, and careful balancing of power between local, provincial, and national governments more than we do. And frankly, they need a strong tradition of local government that has not historically existed.

Islam is a problem, without a doubt. Saying it’s impossible for the two to coexist is a different thing entirely.

Regardless, democracy is not a magic cure, and a constitutional monarchy is a perfectly respectable form of government. But Iraq is not failing just because it was some form of “democracy.”

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:53 PM

Turkey is Muslim. Pakistan is Muslim. Saying Islam is incompatible with “democracy” in the broad sense you keep wanting to use — republics with democratically elected leaders — is obviously false.

Well, lookey here at who is #10? With nuclear warheads too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index

Read about the Pakistan-India stand-off in Kashmir… and the water of the Indus River.

http://zerolinekentmoors.com/media/nuclear-war-world-war-iii-start-india-pakistan/

307wolverine on August 9, 2014 at 9:54 PM

The failure in Iraq is not the failure of Muslims so much as the failure of a simplistic vision of democracy.

OK, I see what you are saying here.

What they need is a strong level of self-rule at the community and provincial level, and a federal national government that is at least partly constituted according to the local and provincial governments, complete with checks and balances to ensure that the national government can’t do anything to bully or oppress local governments.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 5:22 PM

But you are still assuming that a people conditioned to view the world through an Islamic lens is capable of establishing such a form of government. I contend that the necessary philosophical ingredients are simply not there.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 10:09 PM

Iraq on the other hand contains Sunnis and Shiites, and needs structure, protection of minorities, and careful balancing of power between local, provincial, and national governments more than we do.

I will leave it to Judge Learned Hand to explain.

I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it… What is this liberty that must lie in the hearts of men and women? It is not the ruthless, the unbridled will; it is not the freedom to do as one likes. That is the denial of liberty and leads straight to its overthrow. A society in which men recognize no check on their freedom soon becomes a society where freedom is the possession of only a savage few — as we have learned to our sorrow.

If you placed 10,000 Germans on a deserted island and 10,000 Sunni Iraqi’s on a deserted island and came back 25 years later you would find societies that reflected who those people were. The Iraqi’s would recreate the same craphole they have now. The German island would be vastly different.

Islam is a problem, without a doubt. Saying it’s impossible for the two to coexist is a different thing entirely.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:53 PM

They have been a short boat-ride across the Mediterranean for 1,300 years. They have been exposed to western concepts of freedom and individual rights for over a millennium. They completely ignored all of it.

They have been occupied by western powers and had those same concepts on their doorsteps for over a hundred years. Once the western powers left, Islam seeped back in.

If a 1,000 years of exposure isn’t enough then what will be?

If it cannot be done in a hundred years of occupation then what sort of timetable are we looking at?

They simply aren’t interested in what we are offering.

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 10:29 PM

They simply aren’t interested in what we are offering.

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 10:29 PM

And are incapable of processing it, even if they were.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 10:43 PM

And are incapable of processing it, even if they were.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 10:43 PM

Its one of the main strengths of Islam. What land they take they keep unless exterminated or driven out. They have amazing staying power despite their less than stellar military abilities.

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 10:48 PM

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 10:48 PM

They’re shrewd.

They know that the key is conditioning from infancy and a careful management of the flow of information. Nothing contrary is allowed in or tolerated and an immediate and instinctive rejection of any opposing narrative is ingrained into their thinking along with a inbuilt fear of questioning their own assumptions.

It’s the ideal cult.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 10:54 PM

It’s the ideal cult.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 10:54 PM

Kind of like the Progressives.

Cleombrotus on August 9, 2014 at 11:01 PM

Iraq on the other hand contains Sunnis and Shiites, and needs structure, protection of minorities, and careful balancing of power between local, provincial, and national governments more than we do. And frankly, they need a strong tradition of local government that has not historically existed.

Islam is a problem, without a doubt. Saying it’s impossible for the two to coexist is a different thing entirely.
There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:53 PM

The difference between sunni and shia is not they they go to different churches on Sunday. They regard each other as apostates of a religion that requires death to apostates. The religion has encoded a double standard of justice, one for true believers, and one for the others.

Democracy assumes equal justice for all. There is no reconciliation with democracy. Nor constitutional monarchy

Islam knows no country or nationality, just islam, it knows no family but islam and it knows no justice but sharia. Few muslims have any fidelity to their countries or families, which is why muslim countries are unsuccessful … … …because nothing trumps islam. AppraisHer on August 9, 2014 at 6:01 PM

This group has been programmed to be human wrecking balls.

Pope Benedict attempted to get agreement with islamic clerics that all men possess innate understanding of justice and human rights, but these leaders would only consent to agree there was one god A, and M was his prophet. Could say he made them show themselves. The MSM did not cover his historic outreach

An elitist religion, which encourages vengeance, allows you to slaughter and rape your enemies, and destroys those who do not go with the program, is a wellspring of evil

Islam is the problem.
sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Heh I was stripped of my gmail login for saying that elsewhere. But it is the problem

Until one can admit the truth this religion has a different definition of justice, there can be only more ruination. Hitler took nation by nation, and the remaining nations pretended it was not their problem

entagor on August 9, 2014 at 11:45 PM

What a dissimulating coward.

J.B. Say on August 10, 2014 at 12:04 AM

ISIS (or whatever they call themselves today) has headquarters in Ar-Raqqah in Syria, and has since 2006. Why not give them 2 days to start full retreat from Iraq (or for Ar-Raqqah residents to flee) or else we’ll methodically reduce their capital city to complete rubble?

Fly surveillance and hit every ISIS military asset that moves.

ISIS has no allies. Neither Russia, Iran, Syria, or anyone else will complain. Yes, we would be helping Assad some, but it is clear to me ISIS is a bigger threat to us long term if we let them grow. This group is like Al-Qaeda on steroids. Even Al-Qaeda cut ties with them because they were too extreme.

We have the power to cripple ISIS. We just aren’t willing to do it.

willamettevalley on August 10, 2014 at 12:16 AM

Islam is a problem, without a doubt. Saying it’s impossible for the two to coexist is a different thing entirely.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:53 PM

They have been a short boat-ride across the Mediterranean for 1,300 years. They have been exposed to western concepts of freedom and individual rights for over a millennium. They completely ignored all of it.

They have been occupied by western powers and had those same concepts on their doorsteps for over a hundred years. Once the western powers left, Islam seeped back in.

If a 1,000 years of exposure isn’t enough then what will be?

If it cannot be done in a hundred years of occupation then what sort of timetable are we looking at?

They simply aren’t interested in what we are offering.

sharrukin on August 9, 2014 at 10:29 PM

There are existing Islamic democracies, therefore the claim that such a thing is impossible is false. Iraq was not “doomed to failure” because we tried to institute a democracy there. In fact, if Obama had not stupidly withdrawn stabilizing US troops so he could claim a political victory, Iraq would probably be reasonably stable today.

What was truly stupid was not the Bush agenda of promoting democracy, but the Obama agenda of the “Arab Spring” — the assumption that in every Muslim nation, pushing aside a dictator so you could claim you were instituting a democracy. It was a stupid idea, and it would have been a stupid idea if they were not Muslim.

Obama has done nearly as much meddling in Middle East governments in his administration as the CIA did during the Cold War, which at least had a good reason for prioritizing stability over democracy.

It’s not that it’s a bad idea to promote democracy in the Middle East per se, but it’s a bad idea to just presume that a democracy will necessarily be better than a dictatorship. All things being equal, a democracy should be better, if by “democracy” we actually mean a Constitutional republic. But it’s entirely possible for it to be worse.

Failed attempts to replace a stable government with a democracy include Iran (are we ever paying for that one!), Egypt, Libya, and Syria. Egypt is comparably stable, because they were already comparably stable, Libya never had a chance, and Syria managed to keep its dictatorship in spite of Obama.

But before we jump to the conclusion that Iraq is failing because we tried to plant a democracy there, we might note that Iraq is clearly an exception. When we encouraged their current government, we had already deposed their dictator, and they clearly needed some form of government to replace it. It was not an example of gratuitously removing a dictator just so we can plant a democracy instead.

But somehow, rather than just place the blame on Obama’s weak policy where it belongs, people keep rounding back to Bush and trying to put all the blame on him.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 10, 2014 at 3:04 AM

But somehow, rather than just place the blame on Obama’s weak policy where it belongs, people keep rounding back to Bush and trying to put all the blame on him.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 10, 2014 at 3:04 AM

The problem here is you believe a better policy would have prevented this. I fundamentally disagree with this.

Iraq was not some paradise to begin with.
As long as majority of country prefer Islamic rule this was bound to happen.

Islam is the problem not US policy.

weedisgood on August 10, 2014 at 8:30 AM

In fact, if Obama had not stupidly withdrawn stabilizing US troops so he could claim a political victory, Iraq would probably be reasonably stable today.

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 10, 2014 at 3:04 AM

Iraq was reasonably stable under Saddam Hussein. Yes, it is Bush’s fault.

Cleombrotus on August 10, 2014 at 8:30 AM

Why our dear leader believes that diversity and inclusiveness in the Iraqi govt will solve all their/our problems is unicorns and skittles foreign policy. The Iraqis will never come together as a nation. They’ve never been a nation and as long as the Sunni and Shiite beliefs remain, they never will be. The Kurds will never trust any of them and why should they. Saddam was a Sunni and almost wiped them out. We need to forget about a creating a stable govt there when we can’t create one here. The military should just TCB and come home.

Kissmygrits on August 10, 2014 at 8:31 AM

DiFi’s husband must still be in the munitions business.

Kissmygrits on August 10, 2014 at 8:41 AM

And with all that, John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM

Allow me to amend John Adams’s quote here:

““Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people with a Biblical worldview. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

Most muslims are religious and moral, and most secularists are moral but perhaps not religious. That is why democracy is failing in both the East AND the West.

Cleombrotus on August 10, 2014 at 8:50 AM

The most offensive part of yesterdays charade at the WH was this:

- He smirked several times when mocking the status of forces agreement question. That is funny? REALLY?

- He insinuated that even if we had left 10 or 15k troops, ISIS still would have taken over the same amount of area in Iraq. So I guess he truly believes that our soldiers would have waved the white flag when confronted by ISIS, and our soldiers would have too ran away, leaving our tanks and trucks behind? REALLY?

shanimal on August 10, 2014 at 9:42 AM

There are existing Islamic democracies

There Goes the Neighborhood on August 10, 2014 at 3:04 AM

If you think Pakistan is a democracy then I think we have very different definitions of what these words mean.

sharrukin on August 10, 2014 at 11:15 AM

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