Americans support Israel and the press hates it

posted at 3:21 pm on August 4, 2014 by Noah Rothman

One gets the impression that America’s broad support for Israel’s mission in Gaza over that of Hamas militants, support reflected in policy in Washington, is evolving into an obsession for members of the press. In fact, it seems that the more stubbornly Americans cling to their support for their country’s democratic ally in the Middle East, the more frenetic and scolding the media’s tone has become while covering the conflict.

Over a month into the current crisis, a NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll found that a significant plurality continue to sympathize with Israel over Palestinians. 43 percent of Americans said they back Israel compared to just 14 percent who claim to support Palestinians generally. This is, however, misleading as Israel’s current conflict is not with the Palestinian Authority but with Hamas – the ruling faction in Gaza. Unsurprisingly, Americans are even less friendly toward this group which the U.S. State Department lists as a terrorist organization. Only 7 percent of Americans told NBC/WSJ pollsters that they back Hamas while 54 percent support Israel.

America’s sentiments are not unfounded or chauvinistic display of support for a historic ally. In spite of being lectured endlessly by the American government to expend even more energy in order to limit civilian casualties in Gaza, Israel’s rules of engagement are far more self-limiting and crippling than any to which the U.S. would agree to abide by.

Front Page Magazine quotes a report which summarizes the extensive lengths to which the Israeli Defense Forces go in order to limit civilian casualties, often resulting in decreased operational capacity and IDF casualties.

Testimony that is reaching us from fighter pilots who provide close air assistance to the combat soldiers who are currently fighting in the field,” Channel 2′s military correspondent Nir Dvori reported, “about growing frustration over the fact that they hear the forces below them on the ground asking for cover and close air support when they see the terrorists drawing near from short range, firing at them, and there is no approval, because of various limitations, so as not to hit innocent civilians, and out of concern not to hit uninvolved people, and for this reason they cannot always give covering fire, cannot always fire, and so the frustration is that to some extent, they are leaving the fighters on their own to fight on the ground…”

Ynet’s veteran defense analyst Ron Ben Yishai reported that one of the reasons that Hamas was prepared to face Israeli ground troops in the Shejaiya neighborhood, where IDF suffered 13 killed in one day of fighting, is that the residents were given ample advance notice of the IDF’s intent to enter the neighborhood.

IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz took pride in the fact that the IDF takes such care to notify residents of its attack plans. “We cannot agree for Hamas to place civilians in our path,” he said earlier this week. “So what we have done is to warn the civilians over and over again to evacuate. There are no armies like this, which drop leaflets, call on the phone, bomb next to the target or carry out a ‘knock on the roof,’ and even disperse the residents with smoke.

The press has been broadcasting all of this. Anyone who has watched an evening news report in the last month has likely seen the “knock on the roof” warning strikes and the leafleting which occurs before a surgical Israeli munition levels a single structure while leaving the surrounding buildings standing.

Occasionally, a few Americans will see a familiar face – like Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan who recently appeared on CNN with anchor Don Lemon in support of the terror group ruling Gaza – saying things in Arabic which Americans recognize as barbaric anti-Semitism.

Take, for example, this clip of Hamdan appearing on the Lebanon-based al-Quds television network last week. “We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians, in order to mix their blood in their holy matzos,” he noted.

America’s collective memory of such tales must have faded in the intervening centuries.

This is not to say that Israel is infallible, or that there have been no errors in judgment or unpleasantness in this conflict. Not every piece of ordnance Israel uses is precision, and Hamas is often successful in its efforts to put civilians in the line of Israeli fire. War is horrible, and it is a utopian dream to suggest that all atrocities resulting from combat can be prevented.

While America’s support for the Israeli cause is solid, the opposite appears to be true in Europe where anti-Semitic riots have become a regular feature of life in Western European nations like Germany, France, and England. In the American media, too, one gets the sense that America’s close intergovernmental relationship with Israel is a source of endless consternation.

Take, for example, the media landscape in just the last several days.

Vox.com’s Zack Beauchamp expressed his concern over the fact that the White House is unlikely to follow up their harsh scolding of Israel for striking a U.N. school in Gaza (institutions that the U.N. has conceded Gazans have used as weapons depots) with concrete actions aimed at isolating the Middle East’s only democracy in international institutions.

“As harsh as the administration’s language has been in the past few days, it’s hardly been backed up by any meaningful public action pressuring Israel,” Beauchamp wrote. “There’s zero indication that the US is going to take tangible steps to punish Israel, either by limiting defense cooperation or letting through a UN Security Council resolution condemning Israel’s conduct in the Gaza war.”

On Monday, CNN’s Chris Cuomo buffeted State Dept. spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki with questions about America’s military support for Israel, going so far as to suggest America is complicit in the deaths of Gaza’s civilians. “You say this is wrong, you can’t do this kind of shelling or targeted attacks,” Cuomo said of the recent attack on a school. “You are providing the weapons and artillery that allow these attacks to continue. Does that complicate a message of humanity coming from the United States?”

This instinct in the press to reward Hamas’ strategy of ensuring maximum civilian casualties in order to turn global opinion against Israel is a bipartisan one.

“The prolonged killing of children and women in Palestinian territories will only serve to weaken Israel and strengthen Hamas,” MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough articulated in a Politico op-ed. Indeed, that is the entirety of Hamas’ strategic approach to combat with Israel.

“Every day that goes by with images of children being pulled out of the rubble of bombed-out schools, hospitals and public markets is a day that only makes Hamas stronger and threatens Israel’s long-term security,” he added. “And blindly supporting Israel’s politicians when their actions may be strengthening Hamas is no way to show our support or friendship.”

Morehouse College professor Marc Lamont Hill told CNN anchor Carol Costello on Monday that the United States is sacrificing its moral authority by supporting Israel both rhetorically and substantially. “It’s suggesting that there’s an unjust war going on that innocent civilians are being killed and U.N. schools and other safe havens and yet they’re doing nothing to stop it from happening,” he said of American policy toward Israel. “They could control this war at this point. They could end this right now if they want to.”

Tell that to John Kerry.

Hill’s conservative counterpart in that segment, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat, favorably entertained the notion of cutting off military support for Israel, though he avoided making any claims about the morality of that policy prescription.

The American press has an odd blind spot when it comes to the public’s support for Israel. It seems the media is attempting to educate the public that their support for the Jewish State is not founded in logic but on tradition. The media, in fact, might be better served by taking a lesson from the public, which is watching the situation in the Middle East closer and more scrupulously than the elite press has given them credit for.

This post has been updated since its original publication.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Alternate Headline:

The American Press wishes Hamas’s rockets were aimed at flyover Amereica.

UnstChem on August 4, 2014 at 3:23 PM

The American press has an odd blind spot when it comes to the public’s support for Israel. It seems the media is attempting to educate the public that their support for the Jewish State is not founded in logic but on tradition.

.
The “odd blind spot” the media has is ENORMOUS and based on the liberal belief that DEFENDING yourself from violence is EVIL.

Individual human being or nation – doesn’t matter.

If you don’t let thugs kick in your head, you are, in the eyes of the liberals/media, as BAD as the thugs.

Perhaps, you’ve run across this blind spot once or twice, Noah? /s

PolAgnostic on August 4, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Given the bulk of the American media openly supports, advocates, and endorses fascism, their hatred towards the one real democracy and free country in the Middle East is hardly surprising.

As for taken lessons from the ‘people’? The elitist pseudo-intellectuals who work or are the talking heads for the American media would never degrade themselves to think that they, and their media organizations are dependent on the unwashed uneducated mob that they think are the ‘people’. If they did, they would actually learn something from their declining ratings, declining subscription levels, declining advertising revenues, and stop turning out a product that is little more than garbage propaganda.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Gee, I’m sad that Helen Thomas isn’t alive to see this.

Cicero43 on August 4, 2014 at 3:29 PM

The American press has an odd blind spot when it comes to the public’s support for Israel.

Were you born yesterday? This isn’t a blind spot, but overt contempt for the American people in general.

Is the media’s position for gun control a blind spot, or contempt?

Is the media’s inability to treat corruption by Democrats the same as corruption by Republicans a blind spot, or contempt?

The media is not blind to its own bias. It revels in it while despising the average American.

NotCoach on August 4, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Since the press finds it impossible to maintain any semblance of objectivity and have clearly forgotten what ‘journalistic integrity’ means, it seems evident that it is necessary to expel the current members of the press and establish some news and media sources that are objective and understand the meaning and import of journalistic integrity.

We don’t have to tolerate shoddy, aggressive, partisan, prejudiced, fallacious reporting.

It’s time to demand a reckoning of the press.

thatsafactjack on August 4, 2014 at 3:31 PM

We, your betters, have told you what to believe, now… quit thinking for yourselves!”

It worked before, at least twice recently in situations of some significance to our country. I can see why the press is perplexed at our intransigence.

Dolce Far Niente on August 4, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Scarborough: If Israel won’t just let the rockets fall, then it’s curtains for Israel.

Assclown.

Cicero43 on August 4, 2014 at 3:32 PM

Hamas is often successful in its efforts to put civilians in the line of Israeli fire.


Pic of the Day: One Snap Says A Million Words About The Evil Of Hamas

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 3:35 PM

I’m supposed to care if terrorists get blown to hell?? War has collateral damage what are you going to do…

sorrowen on August 4, 2014 at 3:37 PM

Scarborough, who Noah decided was a more credible Republican primary candidate than Palin. Just sayin’.

Immolate on August 4, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Shorter: State Run Media loves terrorist group…..

d1carter on August 4, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Front Page Magazine quotes a report which summarizes the extensive lengths to which the Israeli Defense Forces go in order to limit civilian casualties, often resulting in decreased operational capacity and IDF casualties.

So, IDF soldiers are dying to political correctness. This world is so backward right now.

We had true leadership. Then we argue that IDF should release itself from these restrictive ROE. If they UN didn’t like, the we should just leave and them to meet in “The Hague”.

Oil Can on August 4, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Don’t forget that a lot of support for Israel comes from conservative Christians and Southerners, two groups that American media despises almost as much as Israel so their disdain for any American support is understandable.

What I truly do not understand is the obvious self-loathing northeastern American Jews routinely display when Israel comes up in the news. They seem to want to line up and denounced Israel regardless of the facts.

E9RET on August 4, 2014 at 3:42 PM

It’s not so much that the democrat propaganda machine known as “The Press” hates Jews and Israel. It is that the democrat propaganda machine known as “The Press” loves muslims so much.

jukin3 on August 4, 2014 at 3:44 PM

The media has been lecturing the country on the 2nd amendment as well.

They really don’t believe in the right to self defense.

airupthere on August 4, 2014 at 3:46 PM

Alternate Headline:

The American Press wishes Hamas’s rockets were aimed at flyover Amereica.

UnstChem on August 4, 2014 at 3:23 PM

When the inevitable islamic nuke destroys New York City or DC, the press will lament that West Virginia didn’t get destroyed instead.

ConstantineXI on August 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Over a month into the current crisis, a NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll found that a significant plurality continue to sympathize with Israel over Palestinians. 43 percent of Americans said they back Israel compared to just 14 percent who claim to support Palestinians generally.

So although less than half of those polled supports Israel in this conflict, according to Noah Rothman “America” monolithically supports Israel. Noah apparently isn’t good at math.

antifederalist on August 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM

The media has been lecturing the country on the 2nd amendment as well.

They really don’t believe in the right to self defense.

airupthere on August 4, 2014 at 3:46 PM

They very much believe in the right to self defense for THEMSELVES, ie: The Privileged. You won’t ever see the elite in the media living outside a guarded, gated community OR a guarded high rise. What they can’t stand is the idea that the PEASANTS can have arms.

ConstantineXI on August 4, 2014 at 3:51 PM

So, IDF soldiers are dying to political correctness.

Oil Can on August 4, 2014 at 3:39 PM

They call it ‘sacrifices for peace’ and it isn’t limited to soldiers.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM

OT
Is it possible for this “conservative” website 86 the nudie click bait? Isn’t enough of our society porned-up too much already?

antifederalist on August 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Pic of the Day: One Snap Says A Million Words About The Evil Of Hamas

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 3:35 PM

No pic there…

OmahaConservative on August 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Morehouse College professor Marc Lamont Hill told CNN anchor Carol Costello on Monday that the United States is sacrificing its moral authority by supporting Israel both rhetorically and substantially.

This is the douche that believes Mumia Abu-Jamal is innocent.

slickwillie2001 on August 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM

He met the 72 virgins.

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Anybody who sees how progressives think, knows how Hitler came to power. The progressives need a villain, and they judge their villains by how much guilt-free financial success they have. You can be a success, but you better be beating yourself up over it, and proclaiming that you don’t deserve it.

RBMN on August 4, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Let’s get something straight: Using Chris Cuomo and Joe Scarborough as examples of bipartisanship displays a misunderstanding of what bipartisan means.

Furthermore, labeling Ross Douthat a “conservative” clearly misses the mark.

Not everyone who is right of center is a “conservative” and someone who flirts with the occasional right of center position is not only not conservative, but their hardly Republican.

I wish we weren’t so apt to use the labels applied to us by the left.

BKeyser on August 4, 2014 at 3:58 PM

MSNBC almost borders on spreading propaganda that is treason.

redguy on August 4, 2014 at 3:58 PM

The press is lying to us. It’s like CNN’s coverage of Saddam’s Iraq all over again:

WHISTLE-BLOWER ITALIAN JOURNALIST: Hamas Covering Up Its Own Rockets Killing Scores of Gaza Children

slickwillie2001 on August 4, 2014 at 3:59 PM

RWM, for your good works

Schadenfreude on August 4, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Americans cling to their support of Israel just like they do their guns and their religion… and just like Hamas does with their tunnels, suicide vests, rockets and human shields…

bobnox on August 4, 2014 at 4:05 PM

No pic there…

OmahaConservative on August 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM

OC not sure what the issue is… I checked the link 2x yesterday and got the picture the 1st time, but not the second. Today it worked again.

Try again… and no I haven’t a clue as to why you get that little x in the top left corner of the frame and no picture. Happens to me on many sites sometimes never can get the pic other times it works on reviewing.

unaffiliated on August 4, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Galtian ignores the press and he loves it.

Galtian on August 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM

I support Israel but probably with a lot less gusto than most here. Hamas needs to be destroyed – I get it. But, the more I learn about Israel the more I hear that their leftists – of which there are many – make ours look like JFK. Yeah, I guess you can say that about most European countries – that’s true.

I’m not afraid to admit that my experiences growing up in NY working in the service industry shaped a less than favorable impression of Jewish Americans. I know both anecdotally and statistically that most of the nasty, greedy and belittling encounters were with the left-wing variety (which makes them exactly like most leftists, but they seem to take it to a whole new level).

Where I live now the Jews I’m friends with are a lot more friendly, generous and less condescending. However, they are still almost uniformally left-wing and all seem to exhibit these personality traits, though not so much day to day.

I try to judge everybody individually, but your life experiences shape your opinions of people and things. Anyone who tells you differently is lying, so there’s mine.

crrr6 on August 4, 2014 at 4:13 PM

http://www.thomaswictor.com/two-pallywood-duds/

Rich on August 4, 2014 at 4:05 PM

This is a great link folks, don’t miss it. Outrageous ‘palestinian’ fakery.

slickwillie2001 on August 4, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Obama recently told The New Yorker that he “wrestle[s]” with civilian casualties. But, he said, he has “a solemn duty and responsibility to keep the American people safe. That’s my most important obligation as President and Commander-in-Chief. And there are individuals and groups out there that are intent on killing Americans — killing American civilians, killing American children, blowing up American planes.”

Bammy to Bibi: Do as I say, not as I do.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 4:20 PM

opinion against Israel is a bipartisan one.

“The prolonged killing of children and women in Palestinian territories will only serve to weaken Israel and strengthen Hamas,” MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough

Don’t do that.

pecan pie on August 4, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Try it now. :-)

http://predicthistunpredictpast.blogspot.com/2014/08/pic-of-day-one-snap-says-million-words.html

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 4:01 PM

Works now. Truly sick and evil…

OmahaConservative on August 4, 2014 at 4:33 PM

I lived in Israel for a year from 2010-11. And I’m not Jewish. Nobody in Israel wants war. It’s really a very nice place. But they’re surrounded by bloodthirsty savages.

Seriously, check out Tel Aviv. It’s a pretty cool place to hang. Beautiful beaches, hot chicks..

I miss it, to tell you the truth.

WhatSlushfund on August 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Gee, I’m sad that Helen Thomas isn’t alive to see this.

Cicero43 on August 4, 2014 at 3:29 PM

I miss her, too. She made me tingly all over.

MisterElephant on August 4, 2014 at 4:35 PM

Here’s the problem with this – or any – ‘poll’. I’m one of the Americans who supports Israel. But that doesn’t mean I am incapable or unwilling to see Israel’s mistakes here. Noah runs to the safety of a muted and meek ‘this is not to say that Israel is infallible, or that there have been no errors in judgment’ – and then quickly runs to safety with a ‘Hamas is often successful in its efforts to put civilians in the line of Israeli fire’.
The civilian death count in Gaza is barbaric. It should only be seen as a failed aspect of Israel’s strategy. HA and the right/con media never question a single word offered by Israeli government spokesmen. They think it’s noble that no matter what…NO MATTER WHAT..you do not criticize Israel or any details of this ‘operation’. For Noah and others who just spit back Israeli govt’ talking points, these massive Gazan civilian casualties is simply, to use Noah’s word, ‘unpleasantness’.

verbaluce on August 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM

The media is what, 95 % if not more Democrat?

They luv luv luv dead innocents. What support Hamas has in America is on the left, and almost all of it is from the “elites.”

Dead Jews are definitely something leftists love. After all, Hamas is attacking a foundation of morality at the source. The Left would absolutely freaking love to be slaughtering Christians just like Hamas is slaughtering Jews.

The fact that Hamas isn’t succeeding is something to regret, according to the Left. And it worries them. For when they start to kill Christians, perhaps they will have the success of Hamas.

Vanceone on August 4, 2014 at 4:51 PM

The civilian death count in Gaza is barbaric. It should only be seen as a failed aspect of Israel’s strategy.

Hamas has fired over 3,000 rockets into Israel in the last 4 weeks. The civilian death toll in Israel would dwarf that in Gaza but for the Iron Dome. Period. Story. End of.

If Hamas disarmed, there would be no war.

If Israel disarmed, there would no Israel.

Only one of the parties has a mission of not merely destroying Israel, but annihilating every Jew it can find.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM

Over a month into the current crisis, a NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll found that a significant plurality continue to sympathize with Israel over Palestinians. 43 percent of Americans said they back Israel compared to just 14 percent who claim to support Palestinians generally.

So although less than half of those polled supports Israel in this conflict, according to Noah Rothman “America” monolithically supports Israel. Noah apparently isn’t good at math.

antifederalist on August 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Especially since an equal percent (43%) of US residents are unsure/undecided regarding the who they sympathize with–Israel or the Palestinians:

REGISTERED VOTERS August 2014
Israelis 46
Palestinians 14
Unsure 40
Total 100
RESIDENTS August 2014
Israelis 43
Palestinians 14
Unsure 43
Total 100
REGISTERED VOTERS August 2014
Israelis 56
Hamas 6
Unsure 38
Total 100
RESIDENTS August 2014
Israelis 54
Hamas 7
Unsure 39
Total 100

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 4:55 PM

verbaluce on August 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM

The civilian deaths in Gaza are ENTIRELY HAMAS’S FAULT!
If HAMAS didn’t use civilians as shields…
If HAMAS didn’t hide their arsenals in schools, hospitals, and mosques…
If HAMAS didn’t prevent civilians form going into shelters…
If HAMAS didn’t dig terror/torture tunnels into Israel…
IF HAMAS didn’t LOB ROCKETS into ISRAEL…there would’ve been ZERO civilian casualties.
AM YISRAEL CHAI!
Eff Gaza! Eff Hamas!

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Hamas is a designated terrorist organisation.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:03 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Jimbo! Good news for you, -there’s a hurricane forming in the Atlantic, so you and your Traveler family might find work soon.

slickwillie2001 on August 4, 2014 at 5:04 PM

HA and the right/con media never question a single word offered by Israeli government spokesmen. They think it’s noble that no matter what…NO MATTER WHAT..you do not criticize Israel or any details of this ‘operation’. For Noah and others who just spit back Israeli govt’ talking points, these massive Gazan civilian casualties is simply, to use Noah’s word, ‘unpleasantness’.

verbaloon on August 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM

This part of your post totally voids your first sentence.

F-

Now, please tell us what IDF has been telling us that we should “question”, and why everything that your pals in Hamas tell the press should be accepted without question.

(Starts cockroach-powered sundial)

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:06 PM

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Does Hamas use military terms in their training manual(s)?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:07 PM

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Does Hamas use military terms in their training manual(s)?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:07 PM

You mean military definitions, not terms.

No.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:08 PM

The civilian death count in Gaza is barbaric. It should only be seen as a failed aspect of Israel’s strategy

Anyone not assigning 100% of the blame for civilian casualties with Hamas, or accusing Israel of war crimes, simply hasn’t read the Geneva convention:

http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cha_chapter32_rule97

“The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.”

ICC Statute:

Pursuant to Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) of the 1998 ICC Statute, “[u]tilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

CapnObvious on August 4, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Pursuant to Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) of the 1998 ICC Statute, “[u]tilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

CapnObvious on August 4, 2014 at 5:08 PM

So does that mean that the other side’s forces are allowed to shoot the civilians, or does that mean that the people violating this provision should be tried for war crimes?

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:10 PM

The civilian death count in Gaza is barbaric. It should only be seen as a failed aspect of Israel’s strategy.

Hamas has fired over 3,000 rockets into Israel in the last 4 weeks. The civilian death toll in Israel would dwarf that in Gaza but for the Iron Dome. Period. Story. End of.

If Hamas disarmed, there would be no war.

If Israel disarmed, there would no Israel.

Only one of the parties has a mission of not merely destroying Israel, but annihilating every Jew it can find.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM

I don’t see how any of your points address my criticism.
But it’s the typical response. I am not saying anything in favor of Hamas, because I have nothing favorable to say about them.
I am also not saying that Israel doesn’t have the right to defend itself. They have every right and deserve support for that.
I do not support the argument that in their actions to defend themselves they may act with impunity.
I have no doubt that there are debates/concerns internally within the IDF and the Israeli government about the levels or force of the attacks being made. But such debates/concerns are called ‘anti-Israel’ here.
Of which I am phased not in the least.

verbaluce on August 4, 2014 at 5:12 PM

So does that mean that the other side’s forces are allowed to shoot the civilians, or does that mean that the people violating this provision should be tried for war crimes?

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:10 PM

That means, in cretin simple just for you, that the side that uses civilians as human shields are committing a war crime – and that they are fully responsible for those civilian deaths.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:13 PM

‘Serves Them Right’ Graffitied on French Holocaust Memorial for Jewish Children sent to the gas chambers

A photo posted by the Everyday Antisemitism Project, an online blog, shows graffiti on a memorial in France for Jewish children sent to the gas chambers during the Holocaust. “Bien faits pour eux,” the graffiti reads, which translates to “Serves them right.”

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:16 PM

That means (silly ad-hom part edited out) that the side that uses civilians as human shields are committing a war crime – and that they are fully responsible for those civilian deaths.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:13 PM

In your view, is every civilian in Gaza right now by definition a ‘human shield’ – by the mere fact that they reside there?
Even those at safe-houses of which the IDF has been informed?
Even those that have in fact evacuated and moved precisely to where the dropped leaflets advised them?

verbaluce on August 4, 2014 at 5:19 PM

That means, in cretin simple just for you, that the side that uses civilians as human shields are committing a war crime – and that they are fully responsible for those civilian deaths.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:13 PM

You’re wrong about one thing, idiot:

Prosecutions of war crimes happen in courts, not on the battle field:

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5kzmnu.htm

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM

So does that mean that the other side’s forces are allowed to shoot the civilians, or does that mean that the people violating this provision should be tried for war crimes?

There’s a huge difference between shooting AT civilians and shooting at military targets AMONGST civilians you’re either ignoring or you’re being intentionally obtuse. But giving the benefit of the doubt to your poorly phrased question, the answer is both. The military target is not rendered “immune” AND the people using human shields are guilty of war crimes for any civilian casualties that occur as a result.

CapnObvious on August 4, 2014 at 5:25 PM

If Israel decided to kill as many civilians as it wanted, IT. COULD.

But, it doesn’t.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:26 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM

I notice that you’re ignoring the Jewish chick’s response to verbaloopy.

My response to him applies to you as well.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM

Pic of the Day: Israeli Residents Have A Message For President Barack Hussein Obama

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:24 PM

I have a message for Bibi and the rest of the Israeli government.

Don’t want to be second-guessed by the US President, Congress or US citizens?

Then don’t take any US funds or guarantees.

Simple.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:28 PM

verbaluce on August 4, 2014 at 5:19 PM

Guess it’s time to pick a nit….

You should direct those questions towards Hamas – do they consider every civilian a human shield just because they reside there?

Apparently they do. Since they use civilians and civilian structures including UN schools, mosques, hospitals, markets, apartment buildings, etc to hide their terrorists and leaders (who also commit a war crime by not wearing a uniform or openly carrying their arms), their weapons stores, their missile launch points, and their tunnels into Israel.

Under the laws of war, the IDF, when they call / drop leaflets / flashbangs on targets before they are fully attacked, are going above and beyond. Ask Hamas why they don’t let the civilians leave – to the point where they have chained some in place, or hung children by their shirt collars so they can’t leave?

Furthermore, under the laws of warfare, those targets are legitimate military targets if they are being used to store weapons, hide tunnel’s, or store illegal combatants.

Here’s a simple question for you. Last week, Hamas claimed that the IDF bombed a marketplace killing civilians. The truth of the matter, as reported by international journalists, was that those civilians were killed as a large stockpile of missiles in a nearby warehouse exploded after the IDF bombed the weapons stockpile. Under international law, who was responsible for those casualties?

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:29 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM

I notice that you’re ignoring the Jewish chick’s response to verbaloopy.

My response to him applies to you as well.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM

Who’s response? Yours or RWMs?

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Prosecutions of war crimes happen in courts, not on the battle field:

In the Age of Obama, certain war criminals receive a GOOJF card and get put up in Qatari villas for a year.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:30 PM

Oh, and then they get to return to the battlefield.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:30 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Fine.

Too bad that you don’t have the same view for Palestinians, who rec’d more than $400 million last year & $47 million two weeks ago.

Of course, we know why.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:32 PM

The media has been lecturing the country on the 2nd amendment as well.

They really don’t believe in the right to self defense.

airupthere on August 4, 2014 at 3:46 PM

I long ago abandoned any notion that the Media in this country is anything but colluding, treasonous, leftist scum. They are nothing but the equivalent of the old Soviet press or modern day Lord Haw-Haws and Tokyo Roses. They are the megaphone of the despicable Left in this country and are the cause of the rotting of this country from within.

That said, I feel bad for them for the following reason. I, of course, don’t know for certain, but I strongly suspect that they are going to be prime targets in the rapidly approaching civil war, along with leftist politicians. Their names and faces are right out there for all to see, from the CEOs down to the broadcasters. It’s no wonder that they have such contempt for the Second Amendment. If you were walking around with a bullseye on your noggin or a “Shoot Me First” sign on your back, wouldn’t you want the peasants to be disarmed?

justltl on August 4, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Here’s a simple question for you. Last week, Hamas claimed that the IDF bombed a marketplace killing civilians. The truth of the matter, as reported by international journalists, was that those civilians were killed as a large stockpile of missiles in a nearby warehouse exploded after the IDF bombed the weapons stockpile. Under international law, who was responsible for those casualties?

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Who’s reporting that? That’s not what Israeli papers reported (at least initially):

http://www.timesofisrael.com/at-least-17-people-killed-in-strike-on-gaza-market/

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:34 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:29 PM

To the best of my knowledge-RWM isn’t Jewish.
I’d be delighted if she was.

Hamas wants ALL Jews dead-even little Jewish conservative bloggers who live in Texas.
ALL. OF. US.
The casualties in Gaza are ENTIRELY HAMAS’S fault.
Period.
Re-read what I wrote prior while you’re at it.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 5:35 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Fine.

Too bad that you don’t have the same view for Palestinians, who rec’d more than $400 million last year & $47 million two weeks ago.

Of course, we know why.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:32 PM

I’m happy with cutting both out. The US only has to give to the Palestinians, Egypt and others because we have to balance out what we give to Israel.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Prosecutions of war crimes happen in courts, not on the battle field:

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5kzmnu.htm

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM

I guess being stuck in weapons grade stupidity is your standard operating state….

Jimbo asinine nit alert – be ready for a goalpost move….

There’s a difference between committing a war crime and prosecuting a war crime.

The term I used was committing a war crime. You’re the failtard trying to pick a nit / move the goalpost to ‘prosecute’.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:35 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:34 PM

Go look at the thread where you were clearly demonstrated for being a troll….

PJEmeritus posted the link.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 5:36 PM

The casualties in Gaza are ENTIRELY HAMAS’S fault.
Period.
Re-read what I wrote prior while you’re at it.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 5:35 PM

BS.

So it’s Hamas’ fault that Israel shelled two schools which apparently had no weapons?

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:38 PM

The US only has to give to the Palestinians, Egypt and others because we have to balance out what we give to Israel.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Bullshit.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 5:39 PM

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Does Hamas use military terms in their training manual(s)?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:07 PM

You mean military definitions, not terms.

No.

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Is “human shield” a military definition?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM

So it’s Hamas’ fault that Israel shelled two schools which apparently had no weapons?

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:38 PM

Define “apparently.”

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:44 PM

Is “human shield” a military definition?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM

No. Dirty Harry would say it’s a police term.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Look it’s simple…

The Geneva conventions were written in such a way to discourage civilian casualties as much as possible. They were written by non-insane people who understand that wars involve parties shooting at each other.

In the way they were written, parties are given the choice of
A) shoot and be shot at
B) shoot from behind civilians, be shot at anyway, AND be tried for war crimes if you’re ever caught.

It’s a no-brainer this discourages the use of human shields because they provide no advantage, only a likely detriment.

In the way constitutional scholars like Obama read original intent, the choice becomes
A) shoot and be shot at
B) use human shields and kill with impunity, and make the other side risk prosecution for killing civilians, and after you win, maybe you’ll be threatened with extradition/prosecution… that is unless you use human shields against that action as well.

This would create a huge advantage to using human shields, with almost no downside. This is what Hamas apologists are basing their nonsense on.

Only one of these two scenarios actually discourages the use of human shields. Yes it’s terrible human shields are going to die, but the certainty of that fact is actually what discourages them from being put in that position in the first place.

CapnObvious on August 4, 2014 at 5:50 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:38 PM

Non-Israeli Non-Jewish reporters-once they’ve gotten outside of Gaza-have attested to the fact that at least some of those ‘civilian’ deaths are the result of Hamas mis-fires.
You lose.
As usual.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Israel’s rules of engagement are far more self-limiting and crippling than any to which the U.S. would agree to abide by.

Our rules of engagement are and have been as strict as they come. That’s why we lost Vietnam.

The media types have never served in combat and most here haven’t either so they don’t know what the heck they’re talking about!

Vince on August 4, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Non-Israeli Non-Jewish reporters-once they’ve gotten outside of Gaza-have attested to the fact that at least some of those ‘civilian’ deaths are the result of Hamas mis-fires.
You lose.
As usual.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Agree that some are the result of Hamas’ mis-fires. But the ones I mentioned don’t appear to be.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:57 PM

Americans support Israel and the press and jim56 hates it.

Too bad sparky…..

MaxSplinters on August 4, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Is “human shield” a military definition?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM

No. Dirty Harry would say it’s a police term.

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Wiki says it’s both. You lose again.

Just curious-have you even read a Hamas training manual? If so, please post the link for us.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 6:00 PM

In verbie and Jimbo’s world, the allies shouldn’t have bombed Berlin even though Hitler & Co were there…because civilians!

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 6:01 PM

At the Rafah UN School

Notice the staged photos.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Off topic (Sorry, I’m just talking to myself here.)(Or maybe also to the NSA- hi guys and gals!).
Anyways, continuing from above.
This is also related to “Fear the Rightwing Patriot” stuff that the government has been putting out since the Napolitano era. (They are 100% correct, BTW.) It’s also at the root of the ridiculous militarization of government departments like the USDA (WTF?).
They know what is coming, since they are fomenting it.

But, what they don’t realize is that the coming war will be a pure guerrilla war (berets, not ‘ook ook’). It will not be fought by coordinated groups like militias or ragtag bands or even small armies, which are easily rooted out and destroyed. It is going to be fought by armed individuals making life a living hell for the elite Leftists who are causing this mess. And for that type of warfare, they have no defense. Zero. Sure, they might be able to capture or kill individual freedom fighters after the fact, but that won’t stop the effort or results of a relatively few and highly determined patriots.

It’s all very, very sad.
But, that’s what Leftists always do. Chaos, death and destruction. It’s what they love. It’s how they roll. Until they are themselves destroyed.

justltl on August 4, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 6:02 PM

I was thinking of that as well.
Hamas lies.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 6:05 PM

But the ones I mentioned don’t appear to be.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:57 PM

I’ll note that the troll still hasn’t answered Del’s request for another definition [apparently]….but I will ask that the word above in bold also be defined.

A troll using weasel words to give him an ‘out’, a ‘nit to pick’, a ‘hair to split’, and goalposts to move… whatta surprise.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 6:08 PM

But the ones I mentioned don’t appear to be.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:57 PM

I’ll note that the troll still hasn’t answered Del’s request for another definition [apparently]….but I will ask that the word above in bold also be defined.

A troll using weasel words to give him an ‘out’, a ‘nit to pick’, a ‘hair to split’, and goalposts to move… whatta surprise.

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 6:08 PM

How about this: The two I mentioned were reported by the UN and in the press to have been caused by Israel, not Hamas.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:10 PM

So it’s Hamas’ fault that Israel shelled two schools which apparently had no weapons?

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 5:38 PM

Define “apparently.”

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:44 PM

There were no reports that weapons were at the two schools. How about that?

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Athos on August 4, 2014 at 6:08 PM

How about this: The two I mentioned were reported by the UN and in the press to have been caused by Israel, not Hamas.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:10 PM

And we should automatically accept without question what the UN is claiming, given the fact that they have already admitted that UN schools had been used by Hamas for staging?

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 6:15 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:44 PM

There were no reports that weapons were at the two schools. How about that?

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Who issued those reports, and why do you automatically accept them as credible?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Hamas Spokesman Won’t Say if Hamas Would Remove Call for Killing Jews from Its Charter

Please note: He’s refusing to say whether his terrorist organisation will remove the call to kill JEWS from its Charter, not just Israelis.

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 6:16 PM

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:10 PM

The UN is not a credible source.

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Just a few reminders of that with which we are dealing (links for all can be found here):

Gaza: We Have No Current Plans To “Coexist” With Israel…Says Hamas Leader

Gaza: Hamas Official To Israeli Arabs: We Only Aim Our Missiles At Jews…

Gaza: Hamas brutally beating civilians of Gaza who leave their homes following Israeli warning (Video)

Gaza: Dead Gaza Civilians Privileged To Have Died This Way…Says Hamas

Gaza: You Want MORE Proof of Hamas Using Civilians As Human Shields? Here are Ten More..

Gaza: Report: 300 Rockets Fired By Hamas Have Landed On Palestinians In Gaza…

Gaza: Hamas Executes More Than 30 Alleged Israeli“Collaborators”…

Gaza: Terror Group Palestinian Islamic Jihad Has Iranian-Made “Judgement Day” Zelzal Rockets…

Gaza: Hamas Spokesman Won’t Say if Hamas Would Remove Call for Killing Jews from Its Charter

Gaza: Hamas Fires At IDF Forces From Hospital, Israel Bombs It After Confirming No Civilians Inside (Video)

Gaza: Surprise! Rockets Found At U.N. School “Have Gone Missing”…

Gaza: Journalists Threatened After Reporting Hamas Using Human Shields…

Gaza: Hamas Rockets Found In Second U.N. School

Gaza: Hamas Rocket Stockpile Found Inside THIRD U.N. School…

Gaza: Hamas Using Child Labor To Build Terror Tunnels,Dozens Killed

Gaza: Top Hamas Official: Jews Use Blood for Matzos

Israel: Israeli Leftists Have Their Peace Rally Cut Short When Hamas Starts Firing Rockets At Them…

West Bank: Palestinian Leader On CNN Pretends He’s Deaf When Confronted Over Hamas’ Ceasefire Rejection…

Resist We Much on August 4, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 5:44 PM

There were no reports that weapons were at the two schools. How about that?

jimbo56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Who issued those reports, and why do you automatically accept them as credible?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on August 4, 2014 at 6:16 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on August 4, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Considering UN personnel were near the site and Israeli personnel weren’t and that the US appears to support those reports, I’ll take UN’s word.

My guess is that you wouldn’t support any reports other that IDF reports that totally exonerated Israel for everything it ever did.

jim56 on August 4, 2014 at 6:22 PM

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