Ebola: First case coming to America

posted at 10:01 pm on July 31, 2014 by Mary Katharine Ham

The largest outbreak in history continues unabated in West Africa. Three Americans have been infected, one of whom was the man who died upon his arrival in Nigerian megacity Lagos last week. Now, Emory University hospital in Atlanta will be taking the transfer of an Ebola patient, reportedly an American aid worker:

Emory University Hospital has been told a patient with the Ebola virus will be transferred to its hospital in Atlanta.

According to the Associated Press, the patient is an American aid worker, although the individual’s identity was not released due to privacy laws.

Emory says it has a special isolation unit to treat patients who are exposed to serious infectious diseases which is physically separate from other patient areas at the hospital.

Emory’s isolation unit is one of only four such units in the country, according to the hospital, which also said its staff are highly trained in the procedures necessary to care for the patient.

CNN reports indicate the patient coming to Atlanta is likely missionary Nancy Whitebol, but her arrival day is unknown. Both she and Dr. Kent Brantly, affiliated with Samaritan’s Purse, are still alive:

While U.S. officials have remained mum on the issue, a source told CNN that a medical charter flight left from Cartersville, Georgia, on Thursday evening.

A CNN crew saw the plane depart shortly after 5 p.m. ET. The plane matched the description provided by the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

It was not immediately known when the two Americans — identified by the source as Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol — would arrive in the United States, or where the plane would land.

At least one of the two will be taken to a hospital at Emory University, near the headquarters of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, hospital officials told CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

The patient will be cared for in an isolation unit at the hospital that is separate from patient areas, Gupta said.

With the return of Brantly and Writebol to the United States, it will be the first time that patients diagnosed with Ebola will be known to be in the country.

Brantly and Writebol are described as being in stable-but-grave conditions, with both reportedly taking a turn for the worse overnight, according to statements released Thursday by the faith-based charity Samaritan’s Purse.

Emphasis mine. Is this something the president is reading about in the papers or is someone—anyone—making sure there’s a protocol for containing this kind of thing that’s a little more rock solid than the one that left smallpox hanging out in a minifridge for 50 years? Sure, the CDC is in Atlanta, but the CDC and the other federal agencies in charge of super-deadly infectious diseases have lost control of several deadly diseases in the past several months. I’m not a big fearmonger when it comes to public health—most of those articles about buttchugging and the cinnamon dare are nonsense—but this is a rather more serious threat and there’s plenty of recent evidence that the federal agencies in charge of such things aren’t great at being in charge of such things. Here’s hoping Emory will play point on this. It sounds as if they will, which sounds safer to me.


The Peace Corps is peacing out:

The Peace Corps said Wednesday that it was temporarily removing 340 volunteers working in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea because of the virus’s spread. Two corps volunteers were placed in isolation and under observation—though they aren’t symptomatic—after coming in contact with an individual who later died of Ebola, a spokeswoman said.

Two U.S. faith-based organizations that are helping to treat Ebola patients in Liberia and have had American staff infected said they were evacuating nonessential personnel due to the spread of the virus, as well as security issues. Another U.S. citizen and a top doctor from Sierra Leone have died.

The developments highlight the risks for foreigners as well as for health staff treating Ebola patients. And they underscore the gravity of the evolving crisis in a poor corner of West Africa where government authorities and international health workers have struggled to bring the deadly outbreak under control.

Pray for Whitebol and Brantly (or send good vibes or whatever your thing is). They’re both brave people trying to serve others in the worst of conditions, and they’re clearly wonderful servants. Christlike, even, as this story shows:

An American doctor being treated for Ebola in Liberia has “taken a slight turn for the worse overnight,” according to Samaritan’s Purse, an evangelical Christian Charity based in North Carolina.

An “experimental serum” to treat the virus arrived for the two infected Americans, but there was only enough for one person, according to Samaritan’s Purse.

Dr. Kent Brantly, who noticed his Ebola symptoms and quarantined himself last week, offered the dose to the other infected American, missionary Nancy Writebol.

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

These posts could have been about HIV twenty years ago…amazing how similar people fear of the unknown is…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:22 AM

There was initially doubt as to whether HIV could spread through casual contagion. It was discovered that it can not. There is no doubt that sapient filovirus infections can spread through casual contagion long after a victim is dead.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 AM

This is good quote:

Retweeted by zerohedge
Rudolf E. Havenstein ‏@RudyHavenstein 3m
*Update: CDC reports that unidentified “Nostromo” crewmember brought back to Earth for treatment is recovering, sitting up, talking & eating

Oil Can on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 AM

This is good quote:

Retweeted by zerohedge
Rudolf E. Havenstein ‏@RudyHavenstein 3m
*Update: CDC reports that unidentified “Nostromo” crewmember brought back to Earth for treatment is recovering, sitting up, talking & eating

Oil Can on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 AM

If only they’d listened to Ripley… Heh.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:26 AM

You don’t mess around with something like Ebola.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on August 1, 2014 at 11:15 AM

At least don’t mess with it until you are educated enough to talk about it…

Heymann noted that the only case in which an Ebola case was known to have left Africa and made it to Europe via air travel was in 1994 when a Swiss zoologist became infected with the virus after dissecting a chimpanzee in Ivory Coast.

The woman was isolated in a Swiss hospital and discharged after two weeks without infecting anyone else.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:28 AM

As of last night, the information indicated that they were using isolation suits and protocols, and were exhausted, and somehow mistakes were apparently made.

“Mistakes were made”, therefore protocols were not exactly followed, were they ?

And as to exhaustion, I’m sure that never happens to medical staff under extreme conditions in Atlanta either, right?

Right, because a big staff in a modern facility treating one guy creates the same level of fatigue as a small staff in an austere facility treating multiple patients.

I know beyond a reasonable doubt that the Reston, VA isolation lab avoided killing numerous thousands of people in DC and the surrounding area for the sole reason that they got stupid-lucky. If that doesn’t bother you, maybe you need to think about why it doesn’t.

I know that there have been two other outbreaks beside the Reston one, with zero cases among the humans exposed. Maybe there is something to this low attack rate business.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 11:29 AM

These posts could have been about HIV twenty years ago…amazing how similar people fear of the unknown is…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Sorry; meaningless, invalid comparison.

Midas on August 1, 2014 at 11:29 AM

This is good quote:

Retweeted by zerohedge
Rudolf E. Havenstein ‏@RudyHavenstein 3m
*Update: CDC reports that unidentified “Nostromo” crewmember brought back to Earth for treatment is recovering, sitting up, talking & eating

Oil Can on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 AM

lol

Midas on August 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:28 AM

I’ll ask you the same question I have yet to get an answer to in this thread:

Does the loss of four hemorrhagic fever-infected crab eating macaques in Reston, VA, not bother you at all in terms of the CDC’s ability to handle a situation like this? Come on. You can be the first person on this thread to answer that question. Go ahead.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM

I know that there have been two other outbreaks beside the Reston one, with zero cases among the humans exposed. Maybe there is something to this low attack rate business.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 11:29 AM

Both outbreaks after 1989 were of the Reston strain. In 1989, they thought it was the Zaire strain. They got stupid lucky. You trust the CDC because they got lucky? Can you explicitly tell me, in so many words, that the Reston VA incident does not bother you? Or are you going to continue to dance around the issue?

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:32 AM

The CDC messed up, but the fact that the small pox was viable didn’t mean that it was going to escape into the atmosphere. Viable most likely meant that when they cultured it, it grew. That’s all it meant. During my PhD yrs when I worked in the lab,

there were many things that were left in the freezer

. In fact my samples are still in the freezer right now, but it’s all catalogued. The difference is that the CDC should have been more careful with documentation. Those samples were left many yrs ago, and use of computers was not widespread. I can assure you that things like that most likely won’t happen again in the future. Can it happen, sure cus people make mistakes. But it’s not the norm.

The doctors that work in the CDC are professionals and are some of the smartest people in the world. The bureaucrats suck, but the actual Drs in the trenches are awesome. It’s the same with the VA.

Chudi on July 31, 2014 at 11:59 PM

You do not inspire a lot of confidence, DOCTOR.

zoyclem on August 1, 2014 at 11:32 AM

Detain sick illegals? Nah:

As the Ebola outbreak continues to cause concern, President Barack Obama has signed an amendment to an executive order that would allow him to order the apprehension and detention of Americans who merely show signs of “respiratory illness.”

The executive order, titled Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases, amendsexecutive order 13295, passed by George W. Bush in April 2003, which allows for the, “apprehension, detention, or conditional release of individuals to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of suspected communicable diseases.”

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/01/obama-signs-executive-order-detain-americans-respiratory-illnesses/

Don’t let the Brownshirts catch you coughing.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 11:33 AM

Right, because a big staff in a modern facility treating one guy creates the same level of fatigue as a small staff in an austere facility treating multiple patients.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 11:29 AM

So you admitted that protocols are not always followed. On what basis do you assume that they will be followed perfectly here? I mean, that’s what it boils down to, right? You make another assumption. God help us if you are proven wrong after the fact.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:34 AM

There was initially doubt as to whether HIV could spread through casual contagion. It was discovered that it can not. There is no doubt that sapient filovirus infections can spread through casual contagion long after a victim is dead.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 AM

Only through contact of bodily fluids, and in a hospital, designed and well trained, that is not a problem.

Have someone walking around and puking on park benches, that is a problem…

And you are wrong about initially, it was thought just drinking from the same cup, or shaking hands, you could spread the HIV. It was, like most “unknowns”, preyed upon by the press and the weak minded panicked, just like many of the poster today on here.

The fact is, it is most contagious at the latter stages when the person is coughing up phlegm, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. Until then normal precautions regarding transfer of body fluids, via needle, saliva, etc. will easily contain it.

The problem with the “third world” is that they see “sick” all of the time, it’s a constant in their society. So the sick are among the well and hardly anyone things anything about it.

You are probably too young to remember polio and the scare that created…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:36 AM

Male survivors may be able to transmit the disease via their semen for nearly two months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 11:37 AM

Only through contact of bodily fluids, and in a hospital, designed and well trained, that is not a problem.

Have someone walking around and puking on park benches, that is a problem…

And you are wrong about initially, it was thought just drinking from the same cup, or shaking hands, you could spread the HIV. It was, like most “unknowns”, preyed upon by the press and the weak minded panicked, just like many of the poster today on here.

The fact is, it is most contagious at the latter stages when the person is coughing up phlegm, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. Until then normal precautions regarding transfer of body fluids, via needle, saliva, etc. will easily contain it.

The problem with the “third world” is that they see “sick” all of the time, it’s a constant in their society. So the sick are among the well and hardly anyone things anything about it.

You are probably too young to remember polio and the scare that created…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:36 AM

So, does the failure of the CDC to contain those sick monkeys within a stone’s throw of the DC Beltway in 1989 not bother you? You are basing your faith on the system in an ideal. I am basing my fear on shit that has actually happened. I am not going to pat FedGov on the back just because they got stupid-lucky. And I’m surprised that so many so-called “conservatives” here feel that as their first inclination.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:39 AM

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Seeing that it was not a threat to humans, I can assume that the precautions were not as strict.

But, google most anything and you will find an exception…I can find where George Bush planted bombs in the twin towers…the point being, panic is induced by your own mind searching for a reason to be afraid.

That is why people like you blog and post about things…but don’t do anything. You are not in the “ring”, you are a spectator. And you are easily swayed by “Alert, film at 11″ type press.

My suggestion to you, keep blogging and don’t pet any monkeys…although you are allowed to spank your monkey.

RESTV was discovered in crab-eating macaques from Hazleton Laboratories (now Covance) in 1989. This attracted significant media attention due to the proximity of Reston to the Washington, DC metro area, and the lethality of a closely related Ebola virus. Despite its status as a level-4 organism, Reston virus is non-pathogenic to humans, though hazardous to monkeys;[3][4] the perception of its lethality was confounded due to the monkey’s coinfection with Simian hemorrhagic fever virus

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM

You are probably too young to remember polio and the scare that created…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:36 AM

I’m not. My brother had polio.

The diseases we are discussing require more than an oz. of protection. And a pound of cure isn’t often enough.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 11:45 AM

At least don’t mess with it until you are educated enough to talk about it…

Heymann noted that the only case in which an Ebola case was known to have left Africa and made it to Europe via air travel was in 1994 when a Swiss zoologist became infected with the virus after dissecting a chimpanzee in Ivory Coast.

The woman was isolated in a Swiss hospital and discharged after two weeks without infecting anyone else.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:28 AM

One case constitutes “educated enough to talk about it” for you?

LOL.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on August 1, 2014 at 11:47 AM

So, does the failure of the CDC to contain those sick monkeys within a stone’s throw of the DC Beltway in 1989 not bother you? You are basing your faith on the system in an ideal. I am basing my fear on shit that has actually happened. I am not going to pat FedGov on the back just because they got stupid-lucky. And I’m surprised that so many so-called “conservatives” here feel that as their first inclination.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Pal, I don’t know how to respond to someone who thinks these two people are like monkey in a cage…I am pretty sure they are not going to be treated the same way…good grief, my other suggestion besides not petting any monkeys, it’s early but for you, sit down and have a nice tall drink and relax…and for God’s sake, do not…DO NOT…watch the Planet of the Apes.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Seeing that it was not a threat to humans, I can assume that the precautions were not as strict.

THEY DIDN’T KNOW THAT! That’s my whole point! They discovered the Reston strain AFTER it went wild! The only thing that saved tens of thousands of people from horrendous bloody painful feverish death was LUCK! Not medical expertise! Certainly not lvl 4 biocontainment protocols, but LUCK! Oy vey!

But, google most anything and you will find an exception…I can find where George Bush planted bombs in the twin towers…the point being, panic is induced by your own mind searching for a reason to be afraid.

That is why people like you blog and post about things…but don’t do anything. You are not in the “ring”, you are a spectator. And you are easily swayed by “Alert, film at 11″ type press.

My suggestion to you, keep blogging and don’t pet any monkeys…although you are allowed to spank your monkey.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM

So no. It doesn’t bother you. And I’m the misinformed, ill-educated idiot. Sure.

/Facepalm

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:48 AM

I volunteer r2b to assist with the healthcare of the sick illegals

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 11:48 AM

Can you explicitly tell me, in so many words, that the Reston VA incident does not bother you?

Not really. Please note that we are not awash with EBO-R carrying primates, goats, pigs, bats, and whatnot that could have potentially carried the virus, containment protocols for such an event obviously worked, not that there was much of a risk for human transmission as evidenced by the large lack of cases in those exposed.

On what basis do you assume that they will be followed perfectly here? I mean, that’s what it boils down to, right?

Read what I wrote, you are trying to compare apples to lugnuts.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 11:49 AM

Pal, I don’t know how to respond to someone who thinks these two people are like monkey in a cage…I am pretty sure they are not going to be treated the same way…good grief, my other suggestion besides not petting any monkeys, it’s early but for you, sit down and have a nice tall drink and relax…and for God’s sake, do not…DO NOT…watch the Planet of the Apes.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:47 AM

And I’m the misinformed, ill-educated idiot.

Righty, those monkeys were subject to level four biocontainment protocols. There is no more thorough way to quarantine any subject, animal or human. These are the same protocols from 25 years ago that will be used on whatever human subjects we ship over here. I can not stress that enough. Where the virus these human bodies are carrying is concerned, no, there is no difference between monkeys and humans.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:50 AM

One case constitutes “educated enough to talk about it” for you?

LOL.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on August 1, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Pal, notice I put that in quotes, that is not my thoughts, it was from someone with more authority. You didn’t see that?

Now you come back with authority saying something different…oh, wait, you are just here for “I gotcha”…play that card somewhere else, we have all seen it and we laugh at how childish it is.

I am responding, not pontificating…good grief, didn’t do too well on the debate team did you?

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM

Read what I wrote, you are trying to compare apples to lugnuts.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 11:49 AM

Not at all. The “large lack of cases” was due to the fact that it was a different strain of virus than the Reston lab thought it had. They got lucky. There’s no more to it than that. And your stubborn refusal to deal with that fact apparently makes me the misinformed ill-educated idiot. Okay.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:52 AM

Year Cases of Paralytic Polio
1933 5000
1943 12,000
1946 25,000
1948 27,000
1950 33,000
1952 59,000

http://www.teachspace.org/personal/research/poliostory/fear3.html

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 11:55 AM

I can not stress that enough. Where the virus these human bodies are carrying is concerned, no, there is no difference between monkeys and humans.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:50 AM

Okay, the humans will run amok in the hospital swinging from one room to the other…got it.

And humans act the same as monkey in quarantine, got it.

And the quarantine of humans, is the same as monkeys with a disease that is not contagious to humans…got it.

And protocols, and hospital procedures for this is the exact same as 25 years ago for monkeys…got it.

And one example of an error, that you can find, makes it standard procedure…got it.

And the fact that this will be a very high profile case won’t affect procedure…got it.

You have made up your mind that the U.S. is under attack by these two people in quarantine, and nothing will change your mind…and when it a few weeks they come out safe you will say “It was not worth the risk because 25 years ago 3 monkeys escaped…”

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:56 AM

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 11:55 AM

It was huge, and I remember not being able to go to the “plunge”, the city pool, for my parents fear…what I was referring to is the panic that is driven, and now that we have 24/7 news coverage, the panic is much easier to induce.

This is two people…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:59 AM

No. Comments like the ones I was referencing help the left. Don’t put the responsibility on me for fear-filled-uninformed-alex-jones-like comments.

Walter L. Newton on August 1, 2014 at 11:03 AM

How one responds to a comment made by someone on his side is often just as important as the comment itself. The Left understands this.

DisneyFan on August 1, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Okay, the humans will run amok in the hospital swinging from one room to the other…got it.

And humans act the same as monkey in quarantine, got it.

And the quarantine of humans, is the same as monkeys with a disease that is not contagious to humans…got it.

And protocols, and hospital procedures for this is the exact same as 25 years ago for monkeys…got it.

And one example of an error, that you can find, makes it standard procedure…got it.

And the fact that this will be a very high profile case won’t affect procedure…got it.

You have made up your mind that the U.S. is under attack by these two people in quarantine, and nothing will change your mind…and when it a few weeks they come out safe you will say “It was not worth the risk because 25 years ago 3 monkeys escaped…”

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:56 AM

And I’m the sensationalist one! I never used the word “attack,” douchebag! What I said was, given the federal government’s history, in the person of the CDC, with handling infectious disease vectors, having a 60-90% lethality virus in treatment on American soil is an unnecessary risk I do not feel comfortable with us taking.

You, on the other hand, seem to be content to ignore all evidence put right in front of your face that even the finest of doctors make mistakes that lead to unnecessary deaths. Cause it was only monkeys (doesn’t matter). Cause maybe the protocols weren’t as strict (even though they were). Maybe you should have a doctor check you for a case of terminal normalcy bias.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:01 PM

How one responds to a comment made by someone on his side is often just as important as the comment itself. The Left understands this.

DisneyFan on August 1, 2014 at 12:00 PM

So. I don’t tell the truth in fear that the left will use my comment out of context or something? Sure… I’ll get right on that.

Walter L. Newton on August 1, 2014 at 12:03 PM

Righty, those monkeys were subject to level four biocontainment protocols. There is no more thorough way to quarantine any subject, animal or human. These are the same protocols from 25 years ago that will be used on whatever human subjects we ship over here.

Actually, they weren’t, they were just in quarantine. It was when they started dying that the autopsies commenced, with the wholesale euthanasia following.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 12:07 PM

HIV incidence was highest in the 1980s – reaching 130,000 – followed by declines, and has remained relatively stable since at about 50,000 new infections per year. More recently, new infections have decreased among women but increased among gay and bisexual men.

Number of new HIV infections, 2010: 47,500

Number of people living with HIV: 1.1 million

Number of AIDS deaths since beginning of epidemic: 658,992, including more than 16,000 in 2010

Percent of people infected with HIV who don’t know it: 16%

Percent of people with HIV who are virally suppressed: 25%

State New HIV Diagnoses, Number (%)
California 5,965 (11.9%)
Florida 5,394 (10.8%)
Texas 5,044 (10.1%)
New York 4,944 (9.9%)
Georgia 2,520 (5.0%)
Illinois 2,137 (4.3%)

State/Area New HIV Diagnoses, per 100,000
District of Columbia 177.9
Virgin Islands 39.5
Louisiana 36.6
Maryland 36.4
Florida 33.2
Georgia 31.4
New York 30.1

http://kff.org/hivaids/fact-sheet/the-hivaids-epidemic-in-the-united-states/

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Here

gryphon202, you might read this detail of how these 100 monkeys were treated just like humans are in hospital…or maybe not.

Here is one small synopsis of what was happening when all of those monkeys “escaped”.

Not quite as exciting as 6 monkeys escaping and infecting the population and destroying all of mankind…Rising of the Apes!!! (Alert: Film at 11).

Nearly a week later, on December 5, a group of 91 Tangos broken up into two-person teams entered the facility. 91 Tangos are animal care specialist that generally care, manage, treat, and clean government owned animals, with a primary responsibility of prevention and control of diseases transmitted from animal to humans. Consisting of mostly young soldiers, most were unfamiliar with encapsulating suits, the tools they would be working with, the behavior of monkeys or of the full potential of the medical problem they were facing.

The same procedures used by LTC Nancy Jaax to put down the 65 monkeys were followed. The process was slow and the following day, one of the monkeys escaped. Efforts to net the animal were unsuccessful and only agitated the other monkeys. Shooting it was out of the question for fear that a loose round would end up somewhere unwanted. And, no one had thought of bringing a dart gun or other immobilizing device. Ultimately, it was decided to let the monkey roam freely and to try again the next day.

“Several of us spent the better part of a day trying to catch it. When we talk about the Reston incident, we compare the frustration of that day with the Hollywood version in the movie ‘Outbreak,’ in which an infected monkey was coaxed from a tree and captured within minutes. It is a great example of reality vs. Hollywood”26. Finally the escapee was caught after it had jammed itself into a crevice leaving only its rump exposed. The creature was quickly euthanized.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:11 PM

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Do you have AIDS? Are you HIV positive?

Walter L. Newton on August 1, 2014 at 12:11 PM

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Not unless you drop the soap in a bath house…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:12 PM

You, on the other hand, seem to be content to ignore all evidence put right in front of your face that even the finest of doctors make mistakes that lead to unnecessary deaths. Cause it was only monkeys (doesn’t matter). Cause maybe the protocols weren’t as strict (even though they were). Maybe you should have a doctor check you for a case of terminal normalcy bias.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Read the account I posted, and you will see the protocols are quite different…letting one of the monkeys roam around for a day is hardly “protocol”.

And yes, making a mistake does happen…and not a reason to stop progress.

If one doctor kills a patient doing heart surgery, than eliminate all heart surgery’s, that is what you post implies.

And “finest” doctors, read the account…some of the men were not wearing any protective clothing.

You, my friend, need to do a little more research, and it will lower your panic attack threshold.

You think these two patients, with the world watching, are going to be treated the same as 100 monkeys shipped in to do research on 25 years ago, and all 100+ monkeys were euthanized within weeks, with no contagious effect to humans…

Who needs a reality check?

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Actually, they weren’t, they were just in quarantine. It was when they started dying that the autopsies commenced, with the wholesale euthanasia following.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 12:07 PM

There is no such thing as “just quarantine.” It’s level 1, level 2, level 3, or level 4.

Biosafety lvl 1 is for agents that should not be allowed to go wild, but generally do not cause disease in humans. This is how the Reston virus is classified now that it’s been discovered.

Biosafety lvl 2 is for agents that do not generally cause chronic disease or permanent damage via aerosol vectors.

Biosafety lvl 3 is for agents that can cause chronic disease or death upon inhalation. Plague virus. Rift valley fever. Yellow fever. West nile. And others.

Biosafety 4 is for agents which fit the criteria for lvl 3, but for which no known treatment or vaccination exists.

Those monkeys were all in lvl 4 containment from the moment they started dying off, as it was assumed they were infected with the same agent that killed off entire villages along the Zaire river 13 years prior. The macaques were taken from sites of known sapient Ebola Zaire infection, and euthanasia of the remaining monkeys did not occur until after four of them had escaped from the lab to threaten the greater Washington DC area. Had that not happened, it is speculated that the monkeys would have been allowed to die of whatever hemorrhagic fever they had in order to research the effects of filovirus infection on primates.

Incidentally, there was also speculation at the time that the Reston lab was researching ways to weaponize Ebola Zaire. I don’t personally know that to be true, but what I do know is that had those macaques not escaped, it would have probably taken them years to figure out that they had a strain of filovirus that wasn’t actually infectious to humans.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Nothing to worry about.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Unfortunately, a lot of my fellow gays (particularly the younger ones) think HIV is no longer a big deal since people can now live with it for decades thanks to new drugs. I don’t see the connection to this discussion though.

DisneyFan on August 1, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Read the account I posted, and you will see the protocols are quite different…letting one of the monkeys roam around for a day is hardly “protocol”

I agree. So tell me again why you trust the CDC to handle this particular case any differently now.

And yes, making a mistake does happen…and not a reason to stop progress.

Any research that can be done on American soil can be done elsewhere. You find the risk acceptable. I do not. One of us is right. The other is not. You are willing to risk thousands of lives to find out. I am not.

If one doctor kills a patient doing heart surgery, than eliminate all heart surgery’s, that is what you post implies.

Bullshit. My post explicitly states that Ebola brought to America is an unacceptable risk, and implies nothing else. One mistake by a heart surgeon doesn’t have the potential to kill thousands more in a cascading epidemic.

And “finest” doctors, read the account…some of the men were not wearing any protective clothing.

You, my friend, need to do a little more research, and it will lower your panic attack threshold.

I researched the Reston incident for a paper I did for school in 1995, and took a pathology studies class towards a nursing degree I never completed. I don’t think it’s my supposed lack of education that is concerning me.

You think these two patients, with the world watching, are going to be treated the same as 100 monkeys shipped in to do research on 25 years ago, and all 100+ monkeys were euthanized within weeks, with no contagious effect to humans…

Who needs a reality check?

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Who knows? Look at what our federal government has been doing for the last 6 years with the world watching! We crow and complain about what a bunch of incompetent boobs our government is, until it comes to medical issues. Then we trust them with all the blind faith of a penitent in the confessional.

It is not “panic” to propose that having Ebola virus on American soil is a bad idea. It is a calculated rejection of an unacceptable risk based on decades of mal- and misfeasance going at least back to the 1970′s.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:25 PM

Here’s another possibility that some don’t seem willing to entertain. What if the Reston macaques were not actually under lvl 4 protocol, but the CDC claimed that they were in a cover up after the fact? I’m not saying that’s necessarily what did happen, but I wouldn’t put it past our benevolent federal government knowing what I know now.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:28 PM

I cannot believe this thread hasn’t died of Ebola yet.
If I may, I believe most here feel for the doctor who is fighting for his life, the woman who received his serum that he selflessly gave to her, and hope that they are able to recover from this virus.
That said……many have misunderstood the fear that some have demonstrated on this thread.
Ebola is scary enough, but our government handling patients with Ebola here on US soil is downright frightening.
There is at least a smidgen of proven incompetence.

We have a president and his party cheering an open border…open to the third world and who knows who else.
You notice Henry Cuellar is suddenly very quiet.
I’m just spitballing here, but what happens when our doctors cure Dr. Brantly…everyone’s happy, and those same open border idiots, led by Sheila Jackson Lee and Co, start demanding that we bring other Ebola patients here in the heading of humanitarian need.
This place is quickly descending into a Banana Republic…..you are all racists for not helping poor, sick Liberians!

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM

I cannot believe this thread hasn’t died of Ebola yet.
If I may, I believe most here feel for the doctor who is fighting for his life, the woman who received his serum that he selflessly gave to her, and hope that they are able to recover from this virus.
That said……many have misunderstood the fear that some have demonstrated on this thread.
Ebola is scary enough, but our government handling patients with Ebola here on US soil is downright frightening.
There is at least a smidgen of proven incompetence.

We have a president and his party cheering an open border…open to the third world and who knows who else.
You notice Henry Cuellar is suddenly very quiet.
I’m just spitballing here, but what happens when our doctors cure Dr. Brantly…everyone’s happy, and those same open border idiots, led by Sheila Jackson Lee and Co, start demanding that we bring other Ebola patients here in the heading of humanitarian need.
This place is quickly descending into a Banana Republic…..you are all racists for not helping poor, sick Liberians!

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM

I will concede that Ebola victims can most likely get the best treatment available in the world on American soil. That much is true. I also believe that doesn’t matter. The doctors that exposed themselves to Ebola and got sick from it took a calculated risk and thusly accepted the possibility that they might get sick and die. That does not translate into some moral obligation to put more of our citizens at risk, no matter how large or minute that risk may be.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:33 PM

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM

I will concede that Ebola victims can most likely get the best treatment available in the world on American soil. That much is true. I also believe that doesn’t matter. The doctors that exposed themselves to Ebola and got sick from it took a calculated risk and thusly accepted the possibility that they might get sick and die. That does not translate into some moral obligation to put more of our citizens at risk, no matter how large or minute that risk may be.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:33 PM

Gryph, I agree with you.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:36 PM

Gryph, I agree with you.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:36 PM

I know you do, Hornet. That was directed at those on this thread who do not.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Gryph, I agree with you.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:36 PM

I know you do, Hornet. That was directed at those on this thread who do not.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:37 PM

I didn’t see the good Dr/PhD weighing in again. Is he busy wrestling his inner demons and screaming about that racist rock again. I feel for his ‘patients’.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:40 PM

There is no such thing as “just quarantine.” It’s level 1, level 2, level 3, or level 4.

Oh for pity’s sake, go read the reports.Here for example.

On October 2, 1989, 100 crab-eating macaques (Macaca fascicularis) were flown from Ferlite Farms, to Amsterdam vìa Tokyo and Taipei. From here they traveled to New York City and were then trucked down Interstate 95 to Reston. These monkeys were placed in Room F of the Hazelton facility to begin their quarantine period. The Hazelton facility already had about 500 macaque monkeys housed when this new shipment arrived.

By November 1, 29 of the 100 monkeys had died. Dan Dalgard, the Hazelton facility veterinarian dissected one of the dead monkeys searching for the cause of death. Inside, the body looked strange. Its inch-long soft spleen had tripled in size and grown hard as a rock. There was blood in the intestines. After conducting several other necropsies he diagnosed the deaths as being caused by simian hemorrhagic fever virus (SHFV).

While USAMRIID was analyzing the Reston samples, Hazelton lab workers began euthanizing the remaining animals in Room F. Over several days, however, sporadic deaths began occurring in several other rooms: soon 30 monkeys from a different Ferlite Farms shipment were dead.

COL Gerald “Jerry” Jaax was in charge of eradicating the virus. An initial entry team examined the buildings layout, entrances, exits, and unprotected openings. LTC Nancy Jaax (wife of COL Jaax), a veterinarian and pathologist, and COL C. J. Peters, chief of USAMRIID’s assessment division and in charge of the Reston operation, conducted a walkthrough to determine the condition of the monkeys and what problems an operations team might encounter: blood, body fluids, as well as excited monkeys. Alarmingly, they also found that Hazelton staff and animal handlers were still working in the building without hazmat suits and most were unaware of the grave danger that they were in.

Evidently the research for your paper was lacking.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 12:40 PM

These posts could have been about HIV twenty years ago…amazing how similar people fear of the unknown is…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:22 AM

And I would suggest that many people who were either not afraid of AIDS or just didn’t care are now dead.

BobMbx on August 1, 2014 at 12:43 PM

I didn’t see the good Dr/PhD weighing in again. Is he busy wrestling his inner demons and screaming about that racist rock again. I feel for his ‘patients’.

Actually, what is curious is that you reject out of hand comments by one purporting to be a doctor, yet dote on ones by someone who purports not even to be a nurse.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 12:48 PM

Ooops

BobMbx on August 1, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Evidently the research for your paper was lacking.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 12:40 PM

A quarantine with minimal or nonexistent biological isolation is biosafety level one, or P1, by definition. Now you’re just getting into semantics.

I don’t know if the CDC reports were available at the time I did my paper almsot 20 years ago. If they were, I was unable to find them. The internet was till pretty young back then. My primary sources were Richard Preston’s newly published non-fiction book which to my understanding took him over three years to research, and an admittedly sketchy documentary done in 1992 which was one of Preston’s several sources for his book. Preston himself wrote about his FOIA requests that met with mixed success (to be charitable to FedGov).

As for what is in those reports, the government engaging in a panic response and attempting to keep everything hush-hush less than a half-hour’s drive away from the DC beltway does absolutely nothing to instill any more faith in the government’s ability to handle infectious disease vectors than I had before.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Here’s hoping terrorists don’t send Ebola ‘suicide bombers’ across the southern border. Chances of epidemic in those crowded immigrant camps would seem pretty high.

petefrt on August 1, 2014 at 12:51 PM

We crow and complain about what a bunch of incompetent boobs our government is, until it comes to medical issues. Then we trust them with all the blind faith of a penitent in the confessional.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:25 PM

You may not be aware of this, but being a doctor is not a political office…I trust my doctor not because of who is in office.
What a ridiculous statement, you are concerned about these doctors because of who is in the White House.

Never mind, I think this shows how much “reality” you let rule your life…yes, what if there was a nefarious cover up, Doctor X knows, but he was killed in a mountain climbing accident…or was it really an accident?

I didn’t realize I was posting to a psychotic…you know those voices you hear? Probably implanted by your government dentist to control your mind…

Here’s another possibility that some don’t seem willing to entertain. What if the Reston macaques were not actually under lvl 4 protocol, but the CDC claimed that they were in a cover up after the fact? I’m not saying that’s necessarily what did happen, but I wouldn’t put it past our benevolent federal government knowing what I know now.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:28 PM

They don’t entertain it because you have to be nuts to do so….

HAHAHAHAHA!!, Wait, you don’t know where I live do you?

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Here’s hoping terrorists don’t send Ebola ‘suicide bombers’ across the southern border. Chances of epidemic in those crowded immigrant camps would seem pretty high.

petefrt on August 1, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Now that could happen…like a ticking time bomb. Inject, and they have less than 10 days before they die…so after about 4 days, highly infective according to some medical accounts.

A great story line…let’s hope it doesn’t play out.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:53 PM

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Now I’m psychotic because I don’t want Ebolavirus willfully and knowingly brought into a country of over 310,000,000 people. So now you’ve moved from argumentum ad assertum straight into ad hominem.

/SMH

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:54 PM

You may not be aware of this, but being a doctor is not a political office…I trust my doctor not because of who is in office.
What a ridiculous statement, you are concerned about these doctors because of who is in the White House.

Your doctor won’t be working on these patients, genius. Doctors under the supervision of the CDC will. The CDC. You know, a division of the Federal Department of Health and Human Services?

Never mind, I think this shows how much “reality” you let rule your life…yes, what if there was a nefarious cover up, Doctor X knows, but he was killed in a mountain climbing accident…or was it really an accident?

Meh. I’m far more worried about the truth I know than whatever I might speculate. What I said was that I believe the government to be capable of doing such a thing, irrespective of whether they actually did or not.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:57 PM

And I would suggest that many people who were either not afraid of AIDS or just didn’t care are now dead.

BobMbx on August 1, 2014 at 12:43 PM

Probably, but not because of the panic, but because they didn’t change the circumstances that leads to that disease.

One of the easiest and most controllable diseases…

But I was referring to the panic around how you were infected…sneezing, drinking from a glass, handshaking, it was pretty amazing how the “news at 11″ created such a stir.

Panic is easy to lead people into…and once panicked they seldom will resort to logic.

Truthers are a perfect example…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:58 PM

I didn’t see the good Dr/PhD weighing in again. Is he busy wrestling his inner demons and screaming about that racist rock again. I feel for his ‘patients’.

Actually, what is curious is that you reject out of hand comments by one purporting to be a doctor, yet dote on ones by someone who purports not even to be a nurse.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 12:48 PM

If you’re going to address me, at least have the minerals to use my name.
I, for one, am High Priestess of the Desert, my lands I rule are all I see. //////
I believe Dr/PhD Chudi is a doctor because he tells me so. You’re talking about a guy who screeched and melted down about Perry’s racist rock during the 2012 primaries.
Another smartest man in any room…..Obama has much competition.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 12:59 PM

Now, if only we can find a way to make Ebola only infect Republicans…

HikaruKitsune on August 1, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Well, it cut out the part where I attributed that to Shiela Jackson Lee…

HikaruKitsune on August 1, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Now I’m psychotic because I don’t want Ebolavirus willfully and knowingly brought into a country of over 310,000,000 people. So now you’ve moved from argumentum ad assertum straight into ad hominem.

/SMH

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 12:54 PM

You did that a LONG time ago, about two pages back with all of your “GFY” tags that you were throwing around to anyone who didn’t agree with you.

Walter L. Newton on August 1, 2014 at 1:02 PM

Your doctor won’t be working on these patients, genius. Doctors under the supervision of the CDC will. The CDC. You know, a division of the Federal Department of Health and Human Services?

Well, I guess you being a doctor and having ultimate insight as to the qualifications of who is actually working with these patients, you would have this vast knowledge, right?

Who are the doctors, and what is their background and experience?

If you question their qualifications, you must have quite a bit of knowledge.

Let me guess…you don’t know, or have any idea of the qualifications of who, when, how, this is all happening, just that a monkey escaped for 24 hours, 25 years ago, as they let him roam around to decide how to best capture and euthanize him.

And that monkey “escape” is ruling your thoughts and gives you all the insight you need…got it.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:03 PM

You did that a LONG time ago, about two pages back with all of your “GFY” tags that you were throwing around to anyone who didn’t agree with you.

Walter L. Newton on August 1, 2014 at 1:02 PM

GFY was used once — and that can’t be considered an argumentum ad hominem because it’s not an argument at all. It’s an expression of frustration. If you think that changes the truth of my actual arguments one way or the other, enjoy that tall cool glass of fallacy.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:04 PM

So no. It doesn’t bother you. And I’m the misinformed, ill-educated idiot. Sure.

/Facepalm

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:48 AM

.
No, you are the one taking a 25 year old incident with MONKEYS and equating it to the treatment of two HUMANS today.

I put up a post yesterday pointing out the reasons WHY these two patients BELONG in the U.S. and that if people inclined to panic like a hysterical child need something to worry about …

… the should be worrying about the shipment of illegal immigrants carrying drug-resistant TB to all points within the United States.

The line forms on the left, folks

FaceSLAP

PolAgnostic on August 1, 2014 at 1:04 PM

Now, if only we can find a way to make Ebola only infect Republicans…

HikaruKitsune on August 1, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Ha!! Open border for all Ebola, it that happens.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:05 PM

Well, I guess you being a doctor and having ultimate insight as to the qualifications of who is actually working with these patients, you would have this vast knowledge, right?

Who are the doctors, and what is their background and experience?

Maybe you can tell me if you think that’s germane to my argument. It’s not. All P2-P4 research labs are overseen by the CDC.

If you question their qualifications, you must have quite a bit of knowledge.

I did no such thing. I am questioning the competence of the federal government in overseeing these doctors based on decades of mal- and misfeasance which you are conveniently ignoring because DOCTORS.

Let me guess…you don’t know, or have any idea of the qualifications of who, when, how, this is all happening, just that a monkey escaped for 24 hours, 25 years ago, as they let him roam around to decide how to best capture and euthanize him.

And that monkey “escape” is ruling your thoughts and gives you all the insight you need…got it.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:03 PM

You don’t know any more than I do, Righty. Maybe if you do know the answers to these questions, you can tell me. Until then I’ll just assume you’re begging the question in the classical fallacious sense. As far as I know, an MD behind one’s name doesn’t turn a person into an infallable god.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM

No, you are the one taking a 25 year old incident with MONKEYS and equating it to the treatment of two HUMANS today.

I put up a post yesterday pointing out the reasons WHY these two patients BELONG in the U.S. and that if people inclined to panic like a hysterical child need something to worry about …

… the should be worrying about the shipment of illegal immigrants carrying drug-resistant TB to all points within the United States.

The line forms on the left, folks

FaceSLAP

PolAgnostic on August 1, 2014 at 1:04 PM

We are under no moral, ethical, or legal obligation to allow Ebolavirus on our soil in America. I see you’re another individual to whom government mal-/misfeasance in this case simply does not matter, so I guess your cavalier attitude speaks for itself.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:10 PM

truth of my actual arguments one way or the other, enjoy that tall cool glass of fallacy.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:04 PM

Your “facts” were taken apart by the article/abstract that I posted and linked…

Here are the facts…25 years ago, a monkey escaped, from quarantine, and they let roam for 24 hours until they euthanized it…the monkeys were handled by untrained military soldiers who did not wear any proper “gear” for handling communicable diseases…yet no one was infected.
Also, the only other person ever taken in by a hospital (infected by Ebola), out side of an infected area, lived and within two weeks was released with a clean bill of health.

And that the monkey, and not the human case, has become your reason that these two humans will not be handled correctly, with diligence and complete professionalism, because of our current administration.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:13 PM

We are under no moral, ethical, or legal obligation to allow Ebolavirus on our soil in America. I see you’re another individual to whom government mal-/misfeasance in this case simply does not matter, so I guess your cavalier attitude speaks for itself.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:10 PM

They are citizens of the United States, this is their county as much as yours…your cavalier attitude speaks for itself.

They are American’s, and have as much right to be here as “healthy” American’s…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:17 PM

A couple of questions I posed to Dr/PhD Chudi last night. I guess I’ll ask it again for those who have full faith in the government.

1. Have you ever treated a patient infected with the Ebola Virus?

2. Have you ever physically followed infectious control protocols for the transportation of a patient infected with the Ebola Virus?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 1:18 PM

You don’t know any more than I do, Righty. Maybe if you do know the answers to these questions, you can tell me. Until then I’ll just assume you’re begging the question in the classical fallacious sense. As far as I know, an MD behind one’s name doesn’t turn a person into an infallable god.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM

You were the one who was questioning whether they are capable, not me…based on a wild monkey from 25 year ago.

I don’t think you realize how weak your argument is…they are American citizens that have every right to return to their country for help…and we are not only morally, but legally bound to allow them entry (with conditions) and I do hope they live a wonderful fulfilled life because of our exceptional medical facilities.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM

Your “facts” were taken apart by the article/abstract that I posted and linked…

Not so much.

Here are the facts…25 years ago, a monkey escaped, from quarantine, and they let roam for 24 hours until they euthanized it…the monkeys were handled by untrained military soldiers who did not wear any proper “gear” for handling communicable diseases…yet no one was infected.
Also, the only other person ever taken in by a hospital (infected by Ebola), out side of an infected area, lived and within two weeks was released with a clean bill of health.

You leave out one germane fact: The scientists only knew that the virus those monkeys had wasn’t infectious when it got out. Until then, they believed the monkey in question escaped with a virus that was capable of infecting humans. If they truly believed there was no danger, Richard Preston would have had nothing to write about.

And that the monkey, and not the human case, has become your reason that these two humans will not be handled correctly, with diligence and complete professionalism, because of our current administration.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:13 PM

Yeah. So? That’s not the only example of mis-/malfeasance by the CDC that I cited! How about their gross mishandling of live infectious smallpox? Every time I ask you what makes you think this going to be the exception to the general rule of government incompetence, you practically scream the same single word in my face: DOCTORS. And to that, I ask you, what do you think were the qualifications of those doctors that let the macaque escape before the untrained military men got their hands on it? Can you not at least concede that it was dumb blind luck that those monkeys were not infected with a sapient Ebolavirus?

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM

I am a little amazed at how hardheaded people on this thread are being about this. I agree with Walter; I was thinking I was on infowars. People have been watching too many movies. Thank you right2bright and FX Muldoon for trying to inject some sense into this.

I understand the concern, but there seems to be this perception that a bunch of government union-employed secretaries are going to be managing this man. He is going to be in a high level biocontainment geographically isolated from other patients and staff, with its own lab and aeration facilities. He is going to be seen, examined, and have orders written by professionals, every day, if not hourly. And for those of you who insist on being nervous, CDC routinely deals with, and receives shipments of, things a lot more virulent, scary, and hard to control than Ebola daily. Plague, Multidrug resistant TB, multidrug resistant tularemia, chikungunya, to name a few.

Were the same people worried about this also worried about this when it happened?:

Because in my view that was a lot more serious. And please, the idea that the outbreak risk with regard to a bunch of unpredictable animals getting loose and one guy with Ebola who is himself a health care professional is equivalent is palpably absurd to the point of dementia.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. If Dr. Brantly is to live, he should be here. And I agree……don’t watch Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Or World War Z. Or Andromeda Strain.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM

They are citizens of the United States, this is their county as much as yours…your cavalier attitude speaks for itself.

They are American’s, and have as much right to be here as “healthy” American’s…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:17 PM

They gave up that right when they knowingly exposed themselves to an infectious agent that can put their fellow countrymen at risk. No one has the right to take an action that could reasonably be expected to harm another.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. If Dr. Brantly is to live, he should be here. And I agree……don’t watch Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Or World War Z. Or Andromeda Strain.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM

Wasn’t the whole “you don’t have a right to medical care just for being an American citizen” argument used while we argued against Obamacare? Scratch a conservative, find a progressive.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM

And for those of you who insist on being nervous, CDC routinely deals with, and receives shipments of, things a lot more virulent, scary, and hard to control than Ebola daily. Plague, Multidrug resistant TB, multidrug resistant tularemia, chikungunya, to name a few.

Funny you should mention that. TB and plague are both treated under P3 protocol. Tularemia and chikungunya are P4 if memory serves, but none of these “more virulent, scary, and hard to control” diseases that you list spread any faster than Ebola does.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:26 PM

I am a little amazed at how hardheaded people on this thread are being about this. I agree with Walter; I was thinking I was on infowars. People have been watching too many movies. Thank you right2bright and FX Muldoon for trying to inject some sense into this.

I understand the concern, but there seems to be this perception that a bunch of government union-employed secretaries are going to be managing this man. He is going to be in a high level biocontainment geographically isolated from other patients and staff, with its own lab and aeration facilities. He is going to be seen, examined, and have orders written by professionals, every day, if not hourly. And for those of you who insist on being nervous, CDC routinely deals with, and receives shipments of, things a lot more virulent, scary, and hard to control than Ebola daily. Plague, Multidrug resistant TB, multidrug resistant tularemia, chikungunya, to name a few.

Were the same people worried about this also worried about this when it happened?:

Because in my view that was a lot more serious. And please, the idea that the outbreak risk with regard to a bunch of unpredictable animals getting loose and one guy with Ebola who is himself a health care professional is equivalent is palpably absurd to the point of dementia.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. If Dr. Brantly is to live, he should be here. And I agree……don’t watch Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Or World War Z. Or Andromeda Strain.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:21 PM

March to July.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2709795/Tuberculosis-patient-refused-care-arrested.html

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 1:26 PM

and so he should have been, HS. What’s your point?

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Funny you mention that, though. Now that they’ve arrested him, what do you think they’ll do with him? Ship him back? No they’ll isolate him, and treat him.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:35 PM

They gave up that right when they knowingly exposed themselves to an infectious agent that can put their fellow countrymen at risk. No one has the right to take an action that could reasonably be expected to harm another.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Show me in the Constitution where that is stated, that if you expose yourself to an infectious agent you no longer have the rights of a citizen?

So you are saying, every nurse who treats communicable diseases gives up their rights as Americans? If they contract a disease that scares you, they lose their rights?

The rights of American citizens, fortunately, are not defined by your insane beliefs.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Wasn’t the whole “you don’t have a right to medical care just for being an American citizen” argument used while we argued against Obamacare? Scratch a conservative, find a progressive.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:24 PM

You left out the word “free”…nice try, not really, pretty lame, even for you…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:38 PM

Show me in the Constitution where that is stated, that if you expose yourself to an infectious agent you no longer have the rights of a citizen?

Show me in the constitution where it says your rights as a citizen include health care — period.

So you are saying, every nurse who treats communicable diseases gives up their rights as Americans? If they contract a disease that scares you, they lose their rights?

No. I’m saying that receiving a case of Ebolavirus on American soil before we have an effective treatment or vaccine for it is an unreasonable risk.

The rights of American citizens, fortunately, are not defined by your insane beliefs.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Nor are they defined by yours. My countrymen have just as much right or more to not be exposed to potentially lethal contaminants as any citizen has to effective medical treatment. Take Dr. Brantly somewhere else and fly America’s finest medical personnel to him instead.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:38 PM

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 11:13 AM
ThePrimordialOrderedPair on August 1, 2014 at 11:18 AM
Midas on August 1, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Sorry to respond en masse.

Let’s look at what would make a very wicked infectious agent, and a scenario which would make for ideal spread through a population, and see if those two poor vics pose much of a threat.

-Very easy to spread.
Infections spread by contact with bodily fluids (such as Ebola and its cousin, the Marburg virus) are not as easily spread as are those spread via the airborne route. Think of HIV and hepatitis as opposed to the common cold and influenza.

-Very lethal.
A rhinovirus (nose, not interesting critter, incidentally) that is one cause of the common cold? Nyet. Ebola? Jawohl! It fits the bill perfectly. Although the mortality rate of up to 90% in Central Africa would likely be less in the USA with its better supportive medical care until Obamacare goes into full effect.

-No cure. Ebola wins. Woohoo!

-A relatively long period between acquiring the infection and developing symptoms or dying.
This allows a bunch of seemingly well individuals time to spread the disease throughout the population. If someone croaks within minutes or hours of acquiring the infection, for example, then they won’t have much chance to spread the wealth. You can maybe carry Ebola for up to two weeks before it becomes totally manifest or the person is down for the count or dead. Not as long as we would like in designing the ideal killer germ, but not that short either.

-Bad hygiene in the population with more inadvertent contact with the body fluids of infected individuals or their dead-assed bodies. Probably worse in Central Africa than the Midwest USA for example. I’m going to out on a limb here and guess that the tow individuals will be in something closer to a full on lockup rather than randomly deposited somewhere in Peachtree Plaza. I’m also going to bet that all workers dealing with these two patient’s are going to be on their best behavior and will report any direct bodily fluid contact immediately rather than a TV show where they go home without telling anyone that they stuck themselves with a needle from a patient with the Ebola virus- ho hum- and now just can’t figure out what could possibly be causing their fever, muscle aches and funny rash on their upper body with specks of blood around their eyes? “I’m ok, honey. Really. It’s just a cold. I’m sure. Nothing at all to do with that Ebola case.”

-Poor to non-existent tracking of infected individuals. Good tracking of individuals with a serious infectious disease like Ebola increases the chances of containment. Tracking in the USA by the CDC? Excellent. Tracking in Central Africa by the guy that sends me e-mails telling me I can have $20 million USD by helping his cousin the former king of Zimbuttfu? Not so swift.
Incidentally, if you are planning a bioterror attack, you want to release the agent in a train station or airport rather than at an annual gathering of the Agoraphobics’ Association, not only so you can bag more people initially but also in part so that the path of spread is not tracked so easily, allowing for more time for the super germ to spread before the CDC jumps its case.

-Anyways, I’m running out of ink here, so maybe that will help slightly explaining why the healthcare workers that will be taking care of those patients will be at a pretty low risk, and the chance of some major local, much less, widespread outbreak, nil. Probably not. Maybe I’ll try to be more scientific later. Probably not. But I’d be happy to take any questions or internet abuse or whatever.
:)

justltl on August 1, 2014 at 1:39 PM

You left out the word “free”…nice try, not really, pretty lame, even for you…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:38 PM

So incidentally, has any mention been made of who is going to be paying for Dr. Brantly’s care? Or is that being swept under the rug along with all the stories of the CDC screwing shit up?

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:39 PM

-Anyways, I’m running out of ink here, so maybe that will help slightly explaining why the healthcare workers that will be taking care of those patients will be at a pretty low risk, and the chance of some major local, much less, widespread outbreak, nil. Probably not. Maybe I’ll try to be more scientific later. Probably not. But I’d be happy to take any questions or internet abuse or whatever.
:)

justltl on August 1, 2014 at 1:39 PM

Good arguments all. And none of which require treating Dr. Brantly on American soil.

Most P4 facilities exist outside of the United States of America. Take him somewhere else.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM

Most P4 facilities exist outside of the United States of America. Take him somewhere else.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM

I take that back. “Most” was a speak-o on my part (h/t Jon Gruber). A better characterization would be “Nearly 2 our of 3 of the P4 facilities in the world…”

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:43 PM

More than 100 health workers have been infected by the viral disease, which has no known cure, including two American medics working for charity Samaritan’s Purse. More than half of those have died, among them Sierra Leone’s leading doctor in the fight against Ebola, Sheik Umar Khan, a national hero.

But it can’t happen here, because “smart” people have textbook, movie stereotypical hubris.

Oil Can on August 1, 2014 at 1:44 PM

Just discovered something kind of interesting. There is one privately owned and funded P4 compliant research lab in the United States. And it’s nowhere near New England. I wonder what the odds are that Dr. Brantly could be treated there instead of a CDC lab…

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:45 PM

and so he should have been, HS. What’s your point?

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Funny you mention that, though. Now that they’ve arrested him, what do you think they’ll do with him? Ship him back? No they’ll isolate him, and treat him.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:35 PM

My point? Many here have been gnashing teeth about why we are concerned with Reston 1989….dude, that was twenty five years ago.
Fast forward to 2014. An illegal alien goes to the ER with drug resistant TB, they follow their ‘protocols’ and patient refuses treatment and is free to infect innocent people from March to July.
The authorities followed protocol.
I know people who have been infected with TB when an illegal alien was simply apprehended and questioned. It doesn’t take much to spread this disease.
But, my point……protocols were followed. How many have been infected with drug resistant TB because of those protocols that failed, Johnny?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 1:46 PM

My problem is not with doctors. My problem is not with the medical profession. My problem is with the government. Always has been. And the simple truth of the matter is that in this day-and-age, at least since Medicare has existed, FedGov has had the medical industry by the proverbial balls. I don’t like the idea of bringing Ebolavirus into America at all, but if we do, I’d rather see Dr. Brantly end up at the P4 lab in Texas than anyplace else.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:49 PM

sigh…..

Gryphon, the hell they’re not. There are strains of tularemia that are airborne, either occurring naturally or engineered that way. Same with plague, dengue, or Lassa. Far more infectious, far less treatable. This guy is statistically far less likely to cause an outbreak than the guy that got the plague in Oregon from skinning a bobcat. Not by a little either, by a lot.

Your protestations are simply not credible.

Potentials as Biological Weapon
• F. tularensis was studied as a potential warfare agent in Japan (1932-1945) and in USA (1950′s and 60′s) [6-7], whereas Russia is believed to have strains resistant to antibiotics and vaccines [8].
aerosol dispersal of 50 kg of virulent F. tularensis over a metropolitan area with 5 million inhabitants would result in 250,000 incapacitating casualties, including 19,000 deaths (WHO expert committee) [9].
• an aerosol release in a densely populated area would result in a febrile illness in 3-5 days followed by pleuropneumonitis and systemic infection [8]
• slower progression and case fatality than anthrax or plague but illness would be expected to persist for several weeks with relapses.
• virulence and resistance to antibiotics can be potentially enhanced to transform the bacteria into a more lethal agent [8, 10]
• CDC estimates an aerosol attack with Tularemia would cost $5.4 billion per 100,000 persons exposed [11].

Ebola isn’t even close to that, in a current outbreak in a densely populated city with virtually non-existent medical facilities.

You can read the rest yourself if you like. See also, Gerald Mandell, “Principles and Practice of Infectious Diseases”. I say again, the CDC routinely deals with things far more worrisome than Ebola. This is no different. Subjecting him to a death sentence by leaving him in Africa (because that’s what it is) is wrong

http://www.siumed.edu/medicine/id/tularemia.htm

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:49 PM

WHO chief warns virus could spread to other countries causing loss of life

Says that Ebola is moving faster than their efforts to control it

Added that the response to the virus had been ‘woefully inadequate’
Made the comments at a summit in Guinea to discuss the infection

Around 700 people have died from the virus so far, with 1,201 reported cases

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713309/Ebola-moving-faster-efforts-control-WHO-warn-virus-spread-countries-causing-catastrophic-loss-life.html#ixzz39ADm03Aa

WhirledPeas on August 1, 2014 at 1:49 PM

You can read the rest yourself if you like. See also, Gerald Mandell, “Principles and Practice of Infectious Diseases”. I say again, the CDC routinely deals with things far more worrisome than Ebola. This is no different. Subjecting him to a death sentence by leaving him in Africa (because that’s what it is) is wrong

http://www.siumed.edu/medicine/id/tularemia.htm

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 1:49 PM

There’s no way to know if the treatment we have here will be any more effective, Johnny! Come on! We have ebola studied in P4 biosafety labs precisely because we have no known effective or efficacious treatment for it!

*sigh*

But that being the case, there is *one* private P4 lab in America. I wouldn’t want the CDC going anywhere near this case, and that’s the one and only way you could make an argument to convince me that Dr. Brantly really does belong here. Keep FedGov out of it!

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:52 PM

And then there’s this.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:53 PM

Why is this admin bringing Ebola here for treatment, instead of taking the treatment to Ebola? Whatever the level of risk, taking it seems so totally unnecessary and unwarranted… unless there’s a political motive involved.

petefrt on August 1, 2014 at 1:55 PM

So incidentally, has any mention been made of who is going to be paying for Dr. Brantly’s care? Or is that being swept under the rug along with all the stories of the CDC screwing shit up?

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:39 PM

It’s none of our business…that’s between the hospital and him…you are way to involved in this, take a breath.

American citizens, and what their rights are, are not defined by me or you, but by the Constitution, and I asked you to show me where if someone is infected they no longer have the rights of an American citizen.

I don’t see God given rights, or constitutional rights being deprived, therefore I have no reason to suggest they be taken away.

You are using emotional arguments, and good for you, but just because you THINK it’s not fair or right, or scary to you, you can’t remove the rights of an American citizen to come home…unless you have something that I am missing, within the constitution, and not just your fears.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:57 PM

Why is this admin bringing Ebola here for treatment, instead of taking the treatment to Ebola? Whatever the level of risk, taking it seems so totally unnecessary and unwarranted… unless there’s a political motive involved.

petefrt on August 1, 2014 at 1:55 PM

Because the best doctors are here, the best treatment, and because they are American citizens and are allowed to come home.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Hornet Sting,

You won’t get an argument from me, HS, that this was bungled. I would disagree with you that “protocols were followed”, however. I am not familiar with California, but most states that I have practiced in, including Texas and Ohio, have the ability to forcibly detain someone for a period of time who represents a public health risk. If someone allowed a known drug user with possible TB to be discharged, especially to an unsupervised motel room, that’s a complete failure of that system on every level.

I dispute, though, that that situation even remotely resembles the one we’re talking about here.

I note that the article doesn’t actually state that he had MDR TB, but rather that he comes from an area of mexico where it is prevalent. Was it ever confirmed?

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:00 PM

And then there’s this.

gryphon202 on August 1, 2014 at 1:53 PM

Thanks, that explain a lot…at least we know where you go for your “information”… Alert: Film at 11…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Unfortunately, a lot of my fellow gays (particularly the younger ones) think HIV is no longer a big deal since people can now live with it for decades thanks to new drugs. I don’t see the connection to this discussion though.

DisneyFan on August 1, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Just responding to the charge that people over-react to diseases.

The figures and peoples’ attitudes show that we do need to be vigilante against diseases.

Some male h0m0sexuals are wanting the prohibition against male h0m0sexuals’ donating blood lifted.

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4