Ebola: First case coming to America

posted at 10:01 pm on July 31, 2014 by Mary Katharine Ham

The largest outbreak in history continues unabated in West Africa. Three Americans have been infected, one of whom was the man who died upon his arrival in Nigerian megacity Lagos last week. Now, Emory University hospital in Atlanta will be taking the transfer of an Ebola patient, reportedly an American aid worker:

Emory University Hospital has been told a patient with the Ebola virus will be transferred to its hospital in Atlanta.

According to the Associated Press, the patient is an American aid worker, although the individual’s identity was not released due to privacy laws.

Emory says it has a special isolation unit to treat patients who are exposed to serious infectious diseases which is physically separate from other patient areas at the hospital.

Emory’s isolation unit is one of only four such units in the country, according to the hospital, which also said its staff are highly trained in the procedures necessary to care for the patient.

CNN reports indicate the patient coming to Atlanta is likely missionary Nancy Whitebol, but her arrival day is unknown. Both she and Dr. Kent Brantly, affiliated with Samaritan’s Purse, are still alive:

While U.S. officials have remained mum on the issue, a source told CNN that a medical charter flight left from Cartersville, Georgia, on Thursday evening.

A CNN crew saw the plane depart shortly after 5 p.m. ET. The plane matched the description provided by the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

It was not immediately known when the two Americans — identified by the source as Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol — would arrive in the United States, or where the plane would land.

At least one of the two will be taken to a hospital at Emory University, near the headquarters of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, hospital officials told CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

The patient will be cared for in an isolation unit at the hospital that is separate from patient areas, Gupta said.

With the return of Brantly and Writebol to the United States, it will be the first time that patients diagnosed with Ebola will be known to be in the country.

Brantly and Writebol are described as being in stable-but-grave conditions, with both reportedly taking a turn for the worse overnight, according to statements released Thursday by the faith-based charity Samaritan’s Purse.

Emphasis mine. Is this something the president is reading about in the papers or is someone—anyone—making sure there’s a protocol for containing this kind of thing that’s a little more rock solid than the one that left smallpox hanging out in a minifridge for 50 years? Sure, the CDC is in Atlanta, but the CDC and the other federal agencies in charge of super-deadly infectious diseases have lost control of several deadly diseases in the past several months. I’m not a big fearmonger when it comes to public health—most of those articles about buttchugging and the cinnamon dare are nonsense—but this is a rather more serious threat and there’s plenty of recent evidence that the federal agencies in charge of such things aren’t great at being in charge of such things. Here’s hoping Emory will play point on this. It sounds as if they will, which sounds safer to me.


The Peace Corps is peacing out:

The Peace Corps said Wednesday that it was temporarily removing 340 volunteers working in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea because of the virus’s spread. Two corps volunteers were placed in isolation and under observation—though they aren’t symptomatic—after coming in contact with an individual who later died of Ebola, a spokeswoman said.

Two U.S. faith-based organizations that are helping to treat Ebola patients in Liberia and have had American staff infected said they were evacuating nonessential personnel due to the spread of the virus, as well as security issues. Another U.S. citizen and a top doctor from Sierra Leone have died.

The developments highlight the risks for foreigners as well as for health staff treating Ebola patients. And they underscore the gravity of the evolving crisis in a poor corner of West Africa where government authorities and international health workers have struggled to bring the deadly outbreak under control.

Pray for Whitebol and Brantly (or send good vibes or whatever your thing is). They’re both brave people trying to serve others in the worst of conditions, and they’re clearly wonderful servants. Christlike, even, as this story shows:

An American doctor being treated for Ebola in Liberia has “taken a slight turn for the worse overnight,” according to Samaritan’s Purse, an evangelical Christian Charity based in North Carolina.

An “experimental serum” to treat the virus arrived for the two infected Americans, but there was only enough for one person, according to Samaritan’s Purse.

Dr. Kent Brantly, who noticed his Ebola symptoms and quarantined himself last week, offered the dose to the other infected American, missionary Nancy Writebol.

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

Gryphon,

Look man, I’m not missing the point you’re making, and no, I would not object to him being in a P4 lab outside the US. But sometimes the Feds are the ones best equipped to handle this kind of thing. Some of the best epidemiologists and clinicians in the world work for the CDC. They’re not bureaucrats, they’re professionals.

A guy in Oregon tries to pry a stuck rat out of his cat’s mouth and gets pneumonic plague (far more infectious per 100,000 than Ebola- as it was aerosolized), and you guys are worried about one doctor with Ebola who isolated himself when he noticed symptoms and who has been monitored every moment since then?

Come on.

I’m just saying that statistically, there’s more to be worried about infectious disease wise than this one sensationalized case.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:12 PM

I just heard Rush talking about this transfer and why it might have been done. He said OBAMA ordered it and that both the Americans are cominng back.

Why would he do this? The only conceivable answer knowing Jugears is that the big bad USA has all these wonderful facilities and poor Africans like him die en mass with an epidemic, that he wants to get Ebola going in the USA to bring us down to 3rd world level in healthcare.

Same reason bringing in all infected and infested illegals and ObamaCare to destroy us all.

txdoc on August 1, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Hornet Sting,

You won’t get an argument from me, HS, that this was bungled. I would disagree with you that “protocols were followed”, however. I am not familiar with California, but most states that I have practiced in, including Texas and Ohio, have the ability to forcibly detain someone for a period of time who represents a public health risk. If someone allowed a known drug user with possible TB to be discharged, especially to an unsupervised motel room, that’s a complete failure of that system on every level.

I dispute, though, that that situation even remotely resembles the one we’re talking about here.

I note that the article doesn’t actually state that he had MDR TB, but rather that he comes from an area of mexico where it is prevalent. Was it ever confirmed?

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:00 PM

Johnny, I don’t know if it was proven resistant, but TB alone is bad enough. Evidently, these were protocols for CA and it proves that protocols followed can always lead to catastrophe.
I ask the question again: Has anyone here ever treated a patient infected with Ebola? Another question: Has anyone here physically participated in infectious control protocols while transportation and housing of an Ebola infected patient?

Donald Trump just weighed in via twitter. I think I change my position. Bring them in. /

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:16 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/african-states-launch-100mn-ebola-response-plan-170858040.html

Conakry (AFP) – The World Health Organization warned west Africa’s Ebola-hit nations on Friday that the epidemic was spiralling out of control and could spread to other countries, causing “catastrophic” loss of life and severe economic disruption.

WHO chief Margaret Chan told the leaders of Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia at a regional summit the response to the epidemic had been “woefully inadequate”, revealing that the outbreak was “moving faster than our efforts to control it”.

and

http://news.yahoo.com/video/ebola-forced-u-peace-corps-002139644.html

dogsoldier on August 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Because the best doctors are here, the best treatment, and because they are American citizens and are allowed to come home.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 1:58 PM

I can vouch for everyone of these. They have the very best doctors and staff on earth. (I just left there, BTW) If they are Samaritan Purse aids, they deserve to have the best care as well. God Bless them all.

Haven’t been here in awhile, but am still battling thyroid cancer…Good cancer my foot!!

DanaSmiles on August 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM

I’m just saying that statistically, there’s more to be worried about infectious disease wise than this one sensationalized case.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:12 PM

The key words you wrote: sensationalized case

Every time something like this pops up, it reminds me of how easy it is to manipulate the public with something scary.

Global warming…birth certificates…it’s all the same mentality.

Starts of “logical” and then just escalates, and when the “logic” falls apart, that is when they dig in to prove that they are right…and the proof gets more and more foolish.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Has anyone here ever treated a patient infected with Ebola? Another question: Has anyone here physically participated in infectious control protocols while transportation and housing of an Ebola infected patient?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Heymann noted that the only case in which an Ebola case was known to have left Africa and made it to Europe via air travel was in 1994 when a Swiss zoologist became infected with the virus after dissecting a chimpanzee in Ivory Coast.

The woman was isolated in a Swiss hospital and discharged after two weeks without infecting anyone else.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 2:20 PM

DanaSmiles on August 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Best of luck, and my prayer for your recovering…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Monroe offered a word of reassurance, however, noting “the health care system in the U.S. is much better isolation facilities and infection control.”

“So, we’re fairly comfortable that if a patient were identified here in the U.S., that they would be rapidly isolated and that the normal kinds of barrier nursing precautions that would be in place would prevent spread even before the person was confirmed to be a case of Ebola.”

http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/cdc-chief-ebola-could-arrive-in-the-u-s/

davidk on August 1, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Same reason bringing in all infected and infested illegals and ObamaCare to destroy us all.

txdoc on August 1, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Calm down. There’s nothing to worry about. The CDC is in charge and on the job, and no one at the CDC will violate regulations based on a political agenda. Just like Customs and Border Patrol are doing at the southern border…..oh….wait…

BobMbx on August 1, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Has anyone here ever treated a patient infected with Ebola? Another question: Has anyone here physically participated in infectious control protocols while transportation and housing of an Ebola infected patient?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Heymann noted that the only case in which an Ebola case was known to have left Africa and made it to Europe via air travel was in 1994 when a Swiss zoologist became infected with the virus after dissecting a chimpanzee in Ivory Coast.

The woman was isolated in a Swiss hospital and discharged after two weeks without infecting anyone else.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 2:20 PM

Please re-read my question. I made it very clear.
Ate you not the same r2b who touts bringing in and giving amnesty to illegal aliens?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Gryphon,

Interesting article cited by your citation. From nature:

Pigs were the source of ZEBOV at a time of infection of NHPs euthanized at 8 dpe (07M and 34F) since shedding from the macaques was not detected at dpe 3 or 6. NHPs euthanized at 13 dpe (20F, 51M) could have contracted ZEBOV from the environment contaminated by either species, considering previous reports on development of disease following aerosol exposure10, or other inoculation routes5, 15, 16, although pigs can generate infectious short range large aerosol droplets more efficiently then other species17. We have also never observed transmission of EBOV from infected to naive macaques, including in an experiment employing the same cage setting as in the current study, where three NHPs intramuscularly inoculated with EBOV did not transmit the virus to one naive NHP for 28 days, the duration of the protocol. During another study, three EBOV infected NHPs cohabiting with 10 naive NHPs in adjacent cage systems did not transmit the virus to naive animals for 28 days (unpublished data). The exact route of infection of the NHPs is impossible to discern with certitude because they were euthanized at a time when EBOV had already spread systemically. However, the segmental attenuation and loss of bronchiolar epithelium and the presence of Ebola virus antigen in some of the respiratory epithelial cells in the lungs of all macaques suggest that the airways were one of the routes involved in the acquisition of infection, consistent with previous reports9, 10. Other routes of inoculation generally did not lead to lesions in the respiratory tract comparable to those observed in this study12, 13.

Under conditions of the current study, transmission of ZEBOV could have occurred either by inhalation (of aerosol or larger droplets), and/or droplet inoculation of eyes and mucosal surfaces and/or by fomites due to droplets generated during the cleaning of the room. Infection of all four macaques in an environment, preventing direct contact between the two species and between the macaques themselves, supports the concept of airborne transmission.

It is of interest, that the first macaques to become infected were housed in cages located directly within the main airflow to the air exhaust system. The experimental setting of the present study could not quantify the relative contribution of aerosol, small and large droplets in the air, and droplets landing inside the NHP cages (fomites) to EBOV transmission between pigs and macaques. These parameters will need to be investigated using an experimental approach specifically designed to address this question.

The present study provides evidence that infected pigs can efficiently transmit ZEBOV to NHPs in conditions resembling farm setting. Our findings support the hypothesis that airborne transmission may contribute to ZEBOV spread, specifically from pigs to primates, and may need to be considered in assessing transmission from animals to humans in general. The present experimental findings would explain REBOV seropositivity of pig farmers in Philippines2, 3 that were not involved in slaughtering or had no known contact with contaminated pig tissues. The results of this study also raise a possibility that wild or domestic pigs may be a natural (non-reservoir) host for EBOV participating in the EBOV transmission to other species in sub-Saharan Africa.

I’m actually surprised this got published. Unclear whether its something unique to the pigs, or to the position of the cages. Interesting for its novelty, but not sure of its relevance. As the authors suggest, it may inform future infection control procedures.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Haven’t been here in awhile, but am still battling thyroid cancer…Good cancer my foot!!
DanaSmiles on August 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Yikes, you’ll get better faster if you find a doctor that knows your thyroid isn’t in your foot! ;)

Prayers for ya – hang in there!

Midas on August 1, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Let’s throw our hands in the air and run down streets yelling “We’re all going to die!”

A traveler coming back from West Africa THIS YEAR later developed symptoms which turned out to be Lassa Fever (25% mortality rate). No one else was infected.

There is nearly one hemorrhagic fever (Ebola is under this class) for every country in South and Central America–the most deadly being Junin Virus (Argentine Hemorrhagic Fever) which has about a 30% mortality rate. Seems to me some illegal alien carrying one of these dread fevers exposes us to a far greater risk than an Ebola victim being transported to the relatively controlled environment of a hospital.

The worst case scenario would be (since Ebola is not airborne and as happened with a Lassa Fever patient flown back to a NY hospital where 3 were subsequently infected) would be a doctor and 2 or 3 nurses or orderlies bexcoming infected–let’s say 6 at most with 4 dying. Even more likely there will be no infections.To the residents of Chicago 4 deaths would qualify as a “dull Saturday night.”

MaiDee on August 1, 2014 at 2:41 PM

MaiDee on August 1, 2014 at 2:41 PM

I’m convinced – we should be air-flighting every damn one of those ebola victims in West Africa here then, post-haste. There’s apparently nothing to worry about; if you’re not in favor of bringing them all here, I guess you’re just a racist or something and hate black people, amiright?

/

Midas on August 1, 2014 at 2:51 PM

Best of luck, and my prayer for your recovering…

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Yikes, you’ll get better faster if you find a doctor that knows your thyroid isn’t in your foot! ;)

Prayers for ya – hang in there!

Midas on August 1, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Thank You both! :)

DanaSmiles on August 1, 2014 at 2:53 PM

maybe this is a last-ditch effort to reduce that unemployment figure once and for all.

exit question: will death count towards the number “no longer looking for employment”?

WaldoTJ on August 1, 2014 at 2:55 PM

Hornet,

Johnny, I don’t know if it was proven resistant, but TB alone is bad enough. Evidently, these were protocols for CA and it proves that protocols followed can always lead to catastrophe.

I’m not sure there’s much about that case that’s “evident” at all. Either way, as I pointed out in my first post, there’s more to be worried about here than there is in this Ebola case.

Has anyone here ever treated a patient infected with Ebola? Another question: Has anyone here physically participated in infectious control protocols while transportation and housing of an Ebola infected patient?

Yes, I have lived in Guinea, and was present in Uganda in 2000 during an actual outbreak there. Yes, I had a couple patients whom we initially thought had Ebola and later turned out negative and improved. Yes, we instituted as much infection control procedures as we could muster where we were when we though there was spread, including chlorine based cleansers, strict contact and respiratory isolation (even though the main modes of transmission are not aerosol), and bunny suits (when we had them–and which we would burn). No, I have never transported an Ebola patient or similar across an international border.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Midas on August 1, 2014 at 2:51 PM

The person being brought back is reportedly an AMERICAN aid worker. If this is NOT the case, I would be against it.

MaiDee on August 1, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Probably addressed somewhere up there, but if the two peeps are American citizens and want to come home for treatment, I think the right thing to do is bring them home.
Patients with wicked infectious diseases are handled in hospitals all the time.
Those two are going to get primo care and precautions.
And it’s not July 1, so even the interns will have at least a month of experience under their belts.

Random thoughts:

-I’m pretty sure that Ebola patients die from shock and multiple organ failure rather than bleeding out, not that anyone likely cares.
-Did anyone mention that the potential bioterrorism agents that the CDC gets their panties in the tighest bunch are:
Anthrax
Botulism
Plague
Smallox
Tularemia (Wabbit Season!)
The viral hemorrhagic fevers, one of which is Ebola.

justltl on August 1, 2014 at 3:01 PM

I would be much more sympathetic to the arguments being made here if the request was to shut down air traffic from Guinea and Nigeria to the United States, not stiffarming an infected physician or nurse from getting modern healthcare.

For those still worried, maybe this will help.

Note the second paragraph of “Biological agents of concern” and Table 1.

Hope MK stops with the sensationalism, or I’m going to have to start comparing her to Drudge.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 3:04 PM

I’m just waiting for an airborne prion to develop.
Now THAT would be something to lose some sleep over.

justltl on August 1, 2014 at 3:04 PM

And it’s not July 1, so even the interns will have at least a month of experience under their belts.

LOL. Brantly ignored the cardinal rule. Never get sick in July.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 3:05 PM

maybe this is a last-ditch effort to reduce that unemployment figure once and for all.

exit question: will death count towards the number “no longer looking for employment”?

Only if it makes King Choom’s numbers look better, Waldo.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 3:12 PM

NYT 36 pt headline:

EBOLA KILLING THOUSANDS; VACCINE AVAILABLE TO OWNERS OF OBAMACARE POLICIES ONLY

BobMbx on August 1, 2014 at 3:15 PM

Are you suggesting that we close down the CDC? How about Mauntok (sp?) island? How do you propose we ( the U.S.) goes about studying the effects and cures for the many deadly ‘critters’ that are out there? If that is your position how does that differ from the gun grabbers cailming that 1 person shot up a school out of the millions of gun owners in America…therfore all guns should be banned crowed?

Von Kleist on August 1, 2014 at 11:01 AM

I think that facility is moving to Kansas. Yep, the middle of tornado alley and right smack in the middle of farm county.

cptacek on August 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM

Hornet,

Johnny, I don’t know if it was proven resistant, but TB alone is bad enough. Evidently, these were protocols for CA and it proves that protocols followed can always lead to catastrophe.

I’m not sure there’s much about that case that’s “evident” at all. Either way, as I pointed out in my first post, there’s more to be worried about here than there is in this Ebola case.

Has anyone here ever treated a patient infected with Ebola? Another question: Has anyone here physically participated in infectious control protocols while transportation and housing of an Ebola infected
Yes, I have lived in Guinea, and was present in Uganda in 2000 during an actual outbreak there. Yes, I had a couple patients whom we initially thought had Ebola and later turned out negative and improved. Yes, we instituted as much infection control procedures as we could muster where we were when we though there was spread, including chlorine based cleansers, strict contact and respiratory isolation (even though the main modes of transmission are not aerosol), and bunny suits (when we had them–and which we would burn). No, I have never transported an Ebola patient or similar across an international border.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:58 PM

That would be a no then, Johnny. But, I appreciate your expertise on the subject. You, I actually believe.
I’m sure Dr. Brantly used similar protocols being an American doctor…..I guess we will watch.
And pray.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM

These posts could have been about HIV twenty years ago…amazing how similar people fear of the unknown is…

not2bright on August 1, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Hey stupid – you get the Gay Plague by direct fluid contact/transfer, not by standing next to them like hundreds of other diseases. Unless a carrier of HIV gets blown into pink mist the risk of infection is smaller than your IQ.

It would have been entirely containable had we quarantined the first wave of patients and not given them practically as much legal protection as a bald eagle.

LawfulGood on August 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Hey stupid – you get the Gay Plague by direct fluid contact/transfer, not by standing next to them like hundreds of other diseases. Unless a carrier of HIV gets blown into pink mist the risk of infection is smaller than your IQ.

It would have been entirely containable had we quarantined the first wave of patients and not given them practically as much legal protection as a bald eagle.

LawfulGood on August 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Well learn to read…that specific post was about the hysteria, the social phenom of being “scared” by reports.

At the time they were talking about transfer by shaking hands, drinking from the same cups, sneezing, it was hysteria.

Then the opposite happened, the libs began their “anti-campaign” and every thing was fine…no problem, it wasn’t a “gay” problem, why the hetero’s would be just as infected, maybe even more…it wasn’t a “gay” problem.

But my post was that this Ebola thing is blown out of proportion, and posters have been swayed.

So I will accept your apology of not understanding, comprehending my post…your welcome for the education.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Please re-read my question. I made it very clear.
HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:29 PM

I got it, what I stated was the only, the only case of coming into a country…so the answer is no, since what I quoted was the only time it ever happened….sheeesh, calm down turbo.

Ate you not the same r2b who touts bringing in and giving amnesty to illegal aliens?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:29 PM

You show me where I touted bringing in and giving amnesty to illegal aliens.

At least if you make accusations, make them accurate, or you are no better than a common liberal politician.

Have a drink and relax, if you want to know my actual statements, either quote them or ask me…don’t make things up.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

A quarantine with minimal or nonexistent biological isolation is biosafety level one, or P1, by definition. Now you’re just getting into semantics.

No quarantine is quarantine, basically a kennel, the same as your dog would go into if you moved to Hawaii. BSL-1 presumes there is already a pathogen, this was not the case, hence the mess when the monkeys started dying.

I, for one, am High Priestess of the Desert, my lands I rule are all I see. //////

My apologies, I will correct that in the future.

You’re talking about a guy who screeched and melted down about Perry’s racist rock during the 2012 primaries.

I don’t know anything about that, at the time I was in a place with limited internet access. Regardless, he has been more factually correct than Gryphon here.

1. Have you ever treated a patient infected with the Ebola Virus?

Dengue haemorrhagic fever, which has the same supportive care, though not nearly the precautions as it is vector borne.

The scientists only knew that the virus those monkeys had wasn’t infectious when it got out.

Actually, they began human surveillance almost immediately.

And to that, I ask you, what do you think were the qualifications of those doctors that let the macaque escape before the untrained military men got their hands on it?

If you are knocking the qualifications of the various docs, COL Jaxx, the team leader, was an experienced veterinarian, and his wife, LTC Jaxx, had been researching Ebola for several years prior to the incident. The Soldiers would have been either/or trained lab techs, of veterinary technicians. The doctors did not “let” anything escape, it got loose during the euthanasia proceedings while cleaning up the mess in the quarantine facility, and the lessons learned why procedures have improved.

TB and plague are both treated under P3 protocol

No. Suspect plague patients with evidence of pneumonia should be placed in isolation, and managed under respiratory droplet precautions. TB, unless there are unusual circumstances, is an outpatient disease.

Tularemia and chikungunya are P4 if memory serves

No, they are both vector borne, unless your hospital is full of ticks and Aedes sp. mosquitoes, there is no problem.

A better characterization would be “Nearly 2 our of 3 of the P4 facilities in the world…”

IOW, because a third of the BSL-4 facilities, more than any one country in the entire world, are in the US, we should dump our patient on another country

But it can’t happen here, because “smart” people have textbook, movie stereotypical hubris.

No, the issue is that in developing countries the health care workers generally don’t have the same level of training or equipment.

But that being the case, there is *one* private P4 lab in America.

Define private, if you really mean “non-fed”, there are four in Texas alone (including one truly private).

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Ate you not the same r2b who touts bringing in and giving amnesty to illegal aliens?

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 2:29 PM

You show me where I touted bringing in and giving amnesty to illegal aliens.

At least if you make accusations, make them accurate, or you are no better than a common liberal politician.

Have a drink and relax, if you want to know my actual statements, either quote them or ask me…don’t make things up.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

She’s already stated the need for “immigration reform” which we all know will be some form of amnesty. And that’s a litmus test for me.

Bitter Clinger on January 29, 2014 at 9:57 AM

Well than, your litmus test will select someone who can’t be elected.

Even Reagan recognized the problem…it can’t be solved with a wave of a magic wand, or with slogan’s.

If you actually sat down, and logically thought it through, you won’t be able to magically make 15 or 25 million people disappear. If you did, I would bet you would rather have 15 or 25 million welfare suckers from the inner cities shipped out.

Just one fact…if you have a child in America, that child is an American citizen…what do you do with the parents? Separate them? What about the little phrase:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

You think that separating a child from their parents is the pursuit of happiness for the child? You think the Supreme Court is going to rule that not all citizens are created equal?

Really, you think you can change the Constitution because you don’t like kids born here of foreign parents?

That is just one minor (or major) legal hurdle, and you don’t think those thousands of cases won’t tie up our legal system?

Of course there has to be a better way…first is what she said, secure the border, and she has been unwavering on that.

Now do what Reagan attempted, but was fooled by the dems, create a logical step where good, qualified, hard working, honest men and women can enter, and the ones that have proven themselves can stay with some “hoops” they have to jump through.

Now take those hard working immigrants, and compare them to the welfare generation in the inner city…who do you want as a “citizen”?

right2bright on January 29, 2014 at 11:48 AM

Daemonocracy on January 29, 2014 at 1:28 PM

Then you won’t be supporting any candidate that can win…it’s that simple, sorry, I didn’t make the “rules”. That is how it has played out.

There is no stat, no poll, nothing that would ever show that anything but some kind of pathway to citizenship would be acceptable.

So put down the war paint, and get practical…we need to make sure the border is locked down secure, than we need to develop a pathway, just like our ancestors received when they arrived illegally.

Millions of our ancestors, like I stated what do you think WOP stands for? With Out Papers, most of the Italians entered here illegally, most Irish did also, look what a mess they made of our country…

It’s fact Jack, whine all you want, a pathway will be the only way it is resolved…so make sure it’s the most detailed, best laid out, and you will forever get to have your lawn manicured, your new home built and your dishes washed at your favorite restaurant…I will promise you, you don’t want the welfare recipients from Detroit doing it, they will be ticked off about the fact they were taken off welfare and put to work…

right2bright on January 29, 2014 at 4:06 PM

To many, allowing lawbreakers to jump through a few hoops to get something millions wait in their own country, pay fines, fill out paperwork to obtain the previous gift of US citizenship, is amnesty.
To you? Thursday.
Apologies for the O/T.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Now do what Reagan attempted, but was fooled by the dems, create a logical step where good, qualified, hard working, honest men and women can enter, and the ones that have proven themselves can stay with some “hoops” they have to jump through.

No, amnesty is saying to any deadbeat, drug runner, and/or gang banger, “OK, you are here, all is forgiven, enjoy your Obamaphone, EBT caed, and democrat voter registration”, not placing restrictions based on meeting set criteria.

F X Muldoon on August 1, 2014 at 5:16 PM

Don’t know if anyone has posted this: (Video included)

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/08/01/plans-underway-to-transfer-americans-sick-with-ebola-from-africa/

DanaSmiles on August 1, 2014 at 7:44 PM

Look man, I’m not missing the point you’re making, and no, I would not object to him being in a P4 lab outside the US. But sometimes the Feds are the ones best equipped to handle this kind of thing. Some of the best epidemiologists and clinicians in the world work for the CDC. They’re not bureaucrats, they’re professionals.

A guy in Oregon tries to pry a stuck rat out of his cat’s mouth and gets pneumonic plague (far more infectious per 100,000 than Ebola- as it was aerosolized), and you guys are worried about one doctor with Ebola who isolated himself when he noticed symptoms and who has been monitored every moment since then?

Come on.

I’m just saying that statistically, there’s more to be worried about infectious disease wise than this one sensationalized case.

johnnymozart on August 1, 2014 at 2:12 PM

I am happy that there is another health care professional around here. Somebody mentioned earlier that after going through this thread, he understood why liberals said conservatives are anti-science and I have to admit I felt the same yesterday night. I have never ever in my life talked to people who were so ignorant and proud of it.

Chudi on August 1, 2014 at 11:15 PM

Random thoughts:

-I’m pretty sure that Ebola patients die from shock and multiple organ failure rather than bleeding out, not that anyone likely cares.
justltl on August 1, 2014 at 3:01 PM

I assume this is addressed to me because I was the person that mentioned ‘bleeding out’. ‘Bleeding out’ is short or slang for hypovolemic shock, which leads to multiple organ failure. We are saying exactly the same thing.

Shock basically means not having enough volume in your body, which is why you give IV fluids and blood products. If you say that somebody died of shock, it most likely means they died of multi-organ failure, because their organs were not getting enough perfusion or blood supply.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Chudi on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 PM

One final thing: To the person wondering why I didn’t respond all day…just wanted to say that I actually have a job.

Chudi on August 1, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Apologies for the O/T.

HornetSting on August 1, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Apology for what? This?

So put down the war paint, and get practical…we need to make sure the border is locked down secure, than we need to develop a pathway, just like our ancestors received when they arrived illegally.

We have a system that is not working…so I say lock down the border, right? Lock down…right?

Now develop a way for honest people to come into the country…got it?

Just like many of our ancestors that arrived “illegally”…

We want honest hard working people…not people who come for the entitlements….and good luck on getting any national leader erected who says “Ship them all back”…that’s a fact Jack.

See where I said “get logical?”, get it, running down the street yelling “bus them all home” won’t get you elected…go ahead, try it.

So take another path…lock down, and put safeguards in…proper detailed way.

But I never “touted”, never encouraged people to come here illegally…I just said “good luck on shipping 15 million home”.

Apology accepted for you misquoting me…but thanks for showing that I never “touted”.

But you have to learn to read the words, not put into the words your meaning…get it?

right2bright on August 2, 2014 at 12:24 AM

I am happy that there is another health care professional around here. Somebody mentioned earlier that after going through this thread, he understood why liberals said conservatives are anti-science and I have to admit I felt the same yesterday night. I have never ever in my life talked to people who were so ignorant and proud of it.

Chudi on August 1, 2014 at 11:15 PM

I would personally consider someone who claimed Ebola was benign to be not only anti-science but black-hole-stupid. Level 4 pathogens are never benign, not even sitting in a freezer. The samples we have in this country are strictly controlled and under guard for just that reason.

People who understand Ebola fear it. Those who are blasé about the dangers are idiots.

Wendya on August 2, 2014 at 2:55 AM

I would personally consider someone who claimed Ebola was benign to be not only anti-science but black-hole-stupid. Level 4 pathogens are never benign, not even sitting in a freezer. The samples we have in this country are strictly controlled and under guard for just that reason.

People who understand Ebola fear it. Those who are blasé about the dangers are idiots.

Wendya on August 2, 2014 at 2:55 AM

Hey moron, if you want to insult me, at least quote me accurately. It’s always funny watching ignoramuses like you and your ilk on this board make fools of yourselves. Why don’t you go read what I said again, and this time read the whole context. What a moron.

Chudi on August 2, 2014 at 3:24 AM

Hey moron, if you want to insult me, at least quote me accurately. It’s always funny watching ignoramuses like you and your ilk on this board make fools of yourselves. Why don’t you go read what I said again, and this time read the whole context. What a moron.

Chudi on August 2, 2014 at 3:24 AM

You said Ebola is a pretty benign disease under US isolation protocols. And yes, that makes you an idiot. Level 4 pathogens are never benign.

With strict quarantine, it’s possible to contain Ebola. Containment doesn’t include flying infected patients 7,300 miles away to a country that has no known cases of the disease. It’s irresponsible and reckless. Those of you who claim it’s no big deal are the most irresponsible and reckless of all.

Wendya on August 2, 2014 at 4:21 AM

Biology of Plagues: Evidence from Historical Populations connects the Black Death with Ebola.

Medieval descriptions of the Black Death note that efforts to quarantine the Black Death were successful. In the wake of the first outbreak, Europeans learned that quarantining infected families for 40 days was effective in stopping the spread. Such a measure would not have worked if the disease were transmitted by rats and fleas, the authors suggest, because rats and fleas do not observe quarantines.

Also, the 40-day period was enough time to ensure the disease finished its incubation period. One of the difficulties in controlling the Ebola virus is that its symptoms start to appear only about five to 22 days after exposure. Therefore people who appear perfectly healthy could be carrying the lethal disease.

Terp Mole on August 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Chudi spat: It’s always funny watching ignoramuses like you and your ilk on this board make fools of yourselves.

Enlighten folks: How often do Chudi’s fellow immigrant African plutocrats handle and consume African bush meat?

Every year, 7,500 tonnes of African bush meat is imported into Britain, according to wildlife charity the Born Free Foundation.

You may be assured these illegal exotic food imports are also rampant in major US cities with West African communities.

Terp Mole on August 2, 2014 at 9:16 AM

-I’m pretty sure that Ebola patients die from shock and multiple organ failure rather than bleeding out, not that anyone likely cares.
justltl on August 1, 2014 at 3:01 PM

I assume this is addressed to me because I was the person that mentioned ‘bleeding out’. ‘Bleeding out’ is short or slang for hypovolemic shock, which leads to multiple organ failure. We are saying exactly the same thing.

Shock basically means not having enough volume in your body, which is why you give IV fluids and blood products. If you say that somebody died of shock, it most likely means they died of multi-organ failure, because their organs were not getting enough perfusion or blood supply.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Chudi on August 1, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Oops. I was just sort of saying that most of the victims of Ebola probably aren’t like what is implied in movies and books where they are bleeding from every orifice and dying from exsanguination.

They are undoubted hypovolemic from not taking in adequate fluids and maybe from a component of blood loss related to oozing due to their severe coagulopathy. But, interestingly, they are apparently whoppingly septic as a result of the Ebola triggering a massive inflammatory response. So their organ failure isn’t just organ dysfunction due to low perfusion of organs, but rather organ damage from their inflammatory response – classic multiple organ failure or multiple organ dysfunction syndrome like that caused by garden variety septic shock (more typical of bacterial infections, although certainly seen in nasty viral infections on occasion).

Very interesting stuff, Chudi.
:)

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 9:33 AM

Interesting thread.
I can certainly understand people being nervous about bringing some Ebola cases here.
But you can bet that those two patients are going to be under extreme isolation precautions with plans for containment in the very unlikely event of a breech.
Containment would likely be pretty easy here in the USA as opposed to central Africa.
I’d worry more about seemingly healthy travelers from Africa who actually have very early Ebola infections. When those folks get sick, there is a pretty good chance of them infecting others, including medical people.

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 9:50 AM

I’d also be a little concerned about someone figuring out how to weaponize it and use it for bioterrorism. Even then, it would be pretty easy to contain (so I don’t think that it would launch some massive epidemic here), but it could certainly kill a lot of people and be a very dramatic act of terror.

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 9:54 AM

And of those agents that I mentioned above, the one that could cause a real pandemic would be smallpox. If I were going to worry about any bioterrorism event (or even an inadvertent laboratory breech), that would be the one agent that I would lose some sleep over.

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 10:04 AM

justltl: I can certainly understand people being nervous about bringing some Ebola cases here.

I’m more nervous about Obama flying potential Ebola carriers to his Africa summit in DC this week.

Recall local WTTG reports uncontrolled rat infestations are eating corpses and attacking morgue employees across the tracks from US Armed Forces Retirement Homes, downstream from Langley Park– largest illegal immigrant community in DC metro area.

D.C.’s Wildlife Protection Act of 2010 requires vermin not be killed but rather captured (“preferably in families”) and transferred to a “wildlife rehabilitator” or released in the area! This is Marxist lawlessness on stilts.

Taste the rainbow.

Terp Mole on August 2, 2014 at 11:03 AM

Level 4 pathogens are never benign, not even sitting in a freezer. The samples we have in this country are strictly controlled and under guard for just that reason.

People who understand Ebola fear it. Those who are blasé about the dangers are idiots.

Wendya on August 2, 2014 at 2:55 AM

I believe the monkeys wer “level 4″, and they were benign to humans…one was even allowed to run amok for 24 hours before they cornered it and euthanized the “level 4 terror”.

right2bright on August 2, 2014 at 12:20 PM

I believe the monkeys were “level 4″, and they were benign to humans

R2B, no, they were just in quarantine, basically just kenneled; this is a link I posted yesterday for a good article describing the situation. Nothing went to BSL-4 till tissue samples from dead monkeys were taken to USAMRIID a month after the monkeys arrived.

F X Muldoon on August 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Oops. I was just sort of saying that most of the victims of Ebola probably aren’t like what is implied in movies and books where they are bleeding from every orifice and dying from exsanguination.

They are undoubted hypovolemic from not taking in adequate fluids and maybe from a component of blood loss related to oozing due to their severe coagulopathy. But, interestingly, they are apparently whoppingly septic as a result of the Ebola triggering a massive inflammatory response. So their organ failure isn’t just organ dysfunction due to low perfusion of organs, but rather organ damage from their inflammatory response – classic multiple organ failure or multiple organ dysfunction syndrome like that caused by garden variety septic shock (more typical of bacterial infections, although certainly seen in nasty viral infections on occasion).

Very interesting stuff, Chudi.
:)

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 9:33 AM

I definitely agree with you that trying to study Shock is very interesting. I work one the ICU, and we can talk about shock all day and not get bored, because it’s one of the most important things we do, and understanding it is the difference between life and death in most ICU patients.

There are many types of shock, and in the case of any infection like this, sepsis is always the main factor. The treatment in most cases of shock though is still giving IV fluids, and possible cases is sepsis, initiating antibiotics within the first hour after admission. The only time you don’t give as much fluids as possible is in Cardiogenic shock, when the failing heart is the cause of the low perfusion.

Anyway, the damage to organs in Ebola which resembles classic bacterial sepsis, even though it is a virus is a very interesting component of Ebola. It’ll be definitely cool to study this, and I am pretty sure that we will see case reports within the next year from the CDC about their experience in treating these 2 patients, which will be very cool.

Chudi on August 2, 2014 at 2:58 PM

R2B, no, they were just in quarantine, basically just kenneled; this is a link I posted yesterday for a good article describing the situation. Nothing went to BSL-4 till tissue samples from dead monkeys were taken to USAMRIID a month after the monkeys arrived.

F X Muldoon on August 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Yes, I also posted a link, and they used the term level 4, but also said they were quarantined.

right2bright on August 1, 2014 at 12:11 PM

I see, the tissues (like you stated from dead monkeys) were level 4, but the monkeys never were…thanks for the clarification.

So much misinformation was thrown around by some posters, that link cleared up most that.

right2bright on August 2, 2014 at 6:16 PM

What difference does it make? I mean, his own children?
How about hugging voters, Barry BAMSTAHHHHHHH!!!!! YOU DA MANNNNN BAMMY BABYYYY!!!!!!! LOVE YA BARRY OL BUDDY OL PALLLL!!!!!!!!!!! YYYEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cableguy615 on August 2, 2014 at 8:22 PM

I watched the doc walk from the transport vehicle under his own power. Didn’t look real steady, but he did it on his own.
I can tell that he’s got balls- which was already evident from the fact that he was doing volunteer work in some Ebola-infested shithole
He’s going to survive. Bank on it.
Glad he’s back in the world.
Heroes still exist out there.

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 8:38 PM

He also deferred taking the experimental treatment to his co-worker, since there was only enough to treat one of them.
A real man. I’ll be damned.
Looks like he’s a Family Practitioner. Figures. They’re generally good peeps.

justltl on August 2, 2014 at 9:02 PM

I know, let’s turn a blind eye to people crossing our Southern border, and then hire them into the food preparation areas of our restaurants! What could go wrong?

claudius on August 3, 2014 at 11:58 AM

These physicians knew what kind of risk they were undertaking in their mission. Yes, it’s a commendable one, but their returning to the US and spreading the disease is reckless and selfish. So, they got sick. They understood that was not just a possibility but a likelihood. Now Americans potentially contracting the disease just became a possibility. I don’t trust their “proper procedures”, because how else did they get it themselves?

ezspirit on August 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM

They are American citizens. Like one of the doctors at Emory said, these are not viruses, but people with viruses. ‘He is somebody’s son, brother, husband, nephew. He’s just a sick person who needs our help’. I don’t think I could have put it any better.

Chudi on August 3, 2014 at 5:26 PM

People with viruses for which there is no known cure. Doctors who broke the dictum, “First, do no harm.” Where we once had the best possible containment strategy — the Atlantic Ocean — we now have a provenly ineffective containment strategy — RUBBER BOOTS.

We have medical ships we could have sent there with Biohazard 4 treatment facilities. We could have flown additional medical staff to attend them. Instead we imported the plague.

They were “sons, aunts, yada yada”. Now they are viral hosts, and we are all at risk.

I read that the plane refueled in Bangor, ME. Strange when it was traveling from Africa to Atlanta.

But then it dawned on me… the Appalachian Trail starts in Maine and ends in Georgia. The government is going to take out all those bitter clingers that cause it so many headaches, those “terrorists” in the words of our DHS and IRS. That will take care of unemployment numbers, unfunded liabilities and poor, sick people who will be a drain on the insolvent Obamacare.

ezspirit on August 3, 2014 at 7:14 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4