Howard Stern: “If you’re anti-Israel then you’re anti-America”

posted at 6:41 pm on July 24, 2014 by Allahpundit

To cleanse the palate, the audio’s a week old but making the rounds today at sites like RCP and Breitbart. I hadn’t heard it until this afternoon. Who knows why any particular clip catches on online when it does, but maybe it’s a simple matter of saturation and catharsis. After another week spent watching world media ignore vastly higher casualties in Syria to obsess about Gaza and watching Islamists like Erdogan exploit the situation for their own sleazy political ends, the usual prim and proper punditry won’t cut it. You need something more raw, like this. Or this.

Stern is Stern so the F-bombs fall like gentle rain, but ignore that. His reach and pop-culture cachet make one little tossed-off rant like this worth about a hundred Senate floor speeches.


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Should it matter? You can be Jewish and be an Anti-Semite.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 24, 2014 at 9:42 PM

And you can be anti-Zionist, and not be an anti-Semite…

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 9:58 PM

So, the Muslims ran Auschwitz? Good grief.

But you’re right, I’m being too extreme here.

Know any good Polish jokes?

That jihadists and their supporters will go after Jews if no one will smack ‘em down as Israel is currently doing? Everyone knows that and it underscores my point; Americans and Israelis, unlike the Euroweenies, doesn’t suffer the jihadists gladly.

Something we agree on..yay.

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 24, 2014 at 10:03 PM

Can you point out North Dakota on an 1803 map?

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Nobody goes around claiming that N Dakota, or the USA for that matter, goes back thousands of years…

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:03 PM

Can you point out North Dakota on an 1803 map?

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Answer the question, can you point out Israel on a 1776 map? All I see is something called the Ottoman Empire.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:04 PM

And you can be anti-Zionist, and not be an anti-Semite…

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Why anti-Zionism is anti-semitism – Dennis Prager

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:06 PM

And you can be anti-Zionist, and not be an anti-Semite…

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Theoretically, sure. Tell me when you find one, and I’ll tell you when I find a perpetual motion machine. Let’s see who wins.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 24, 2014 at 10:10 PM

Answer the question, can you point out Israel on a 1776 map? All I see is something called the Ottoman Empire.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:04 PM

What a coincidence – all I see on an 1800 map is something called “Colony of Louisiana” (France) and “Rupert’s Land” (UK)!

Free the Ruperts!!

(As Rush says, “illustrate the absurd with absurdity”.)

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:16 PM

Question, is it possible for native Americans have our own country that belongs to ourselves and no one else anymore? Why does America have to be a universal nation that everyone can claim. Israelis and CUFIs demand that America not have any separation from Israel. People from Latin America and most other 3rd world countries demand that America have no borders. For America to belong to everyone means that America must be undefined and essentially belong to no one.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:19 PM

Nobody goes around claiming that N Dakota, or the USA for that matter, goes back thousands of years…
JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:03 PM

Correct – and neither did I.
But on the other hand.

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:21 PM

What a coincidence – all I see on an 1800 map is something called “Colony of Louisiana” (France) and “Rupert’s Land” (UK)!

Free the Ruperts!!

(As Rush says, “illustrate the absurd with absurdity”.)

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:16 PM

Once again, where was Israel in 1776? North Dakota didn’t exist in 1803 and Israel didn’t exist in 1776, 1826, 1876, or 1926. I wonder what Americans were when there was no Israel.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:22 PM

I wonder what Americans were when there was no Israel.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:22 PM

Hunter-gatherers mostly, in North America.
http://www.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2012/4/northamerica1500bc.jpg

Middle East looked like this.
http://www.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2011/2/middleeast1000bc.jpg

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Once again, where was Israel in 1776? North Dakota didn’t exist in 1803
antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:22 PM

I think my point went ZOOM over your head. But nevermind, carry on.

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Hunter-gatherers mostly, in North America.
http://www.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2012/4/northamerica1500bc.jpg

Middle East looked like this.
http://www.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2011/2/middleeast1000bc.jpg

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Funny, I thought America was founded by Europeans. 1500 bc is about 3000 before Columbus. Try again.

Once again, where was Israel in 1776?

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:35 PM

Hunter-gatherers mostly, in North America.
http://www.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2012/4/northamerica1500bc.jpg

Middle East looked like this.
http://www.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2011/2/middleeast1000bc.jpg

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Funny, I thought America was founded by Europeans. 1500 bc is about 3000 before Columbus. Try again.

Once again, where was Israel in 1776?

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:35 PM

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:36 PM

I think my point went ZOOM over your head. But nevermind, carry on.

whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Yes, there existed some terra firma in an area which we call North Dakota at that time. But North Dakota as both a people (mainly consisting of people of White European ancestry) and as a political entity (i.e. a state) did not exist. Try harder next time.

Once again, where was Israel in 1776.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:40 PM

Answer the question, can you point out Israel on a 1776 map? All I see is something called the Ottoman Empire.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 10:04 PM

.
A 1776 map is NOT relevant.
.
Numbers 34:3-12 is.

listens2glenn on July 24, 2014 at 10:43 PM

.
A 1776 map is NOT relevant.
.
Numbers 34:3-12 is.
listens2glenn on July 24, 2014 at 10:43 PM

There is a matter of Leviticus 25:23

And Israel’s claim on that land is based on their obedience to God. Is the secular state of Israel obedient to God. Are people like Howard Stern obedient to God? If not, what claim do they have to that land?

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 11:16 PM

I still want two of my points addressed:

1. Israeli espionage in the U.S.
2. When Israeli soldiers have fought alongside American troops.

All I get is snark, thinly veiled accusations of anti-Semitism and school boy jokes about the French.

I may as well try to carry on a discussion with one of our resident Libs.

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 24, 2014 at 11:24 PM

I still want two of my points addressed:
1. Israeli espionage in the U.S.
2. When Israeli soldiers have fought alongside American troops.
All I get is snark, thinly veiled accusations of anti-Semitism and school boy jokes about the French.
I may as well try to carry on a discussion with one of our resident Libs.
Dr. ZhivBlago on July 24, 2014 at 11:24 PM

Don’t let it bother you. People who throw our charges of racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, and anti semitism are just telling you to shut up. Don’t expect to have a rational debate with these people.

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Theoretically, sure. Tell me when you find one, and I’ll tell you when I find a perpetual motion machine. Let’s see who wins.

Good Solid B-Plus on July 24, 2014 at 10:10 PM

Are you telling em that NK are anti-Semitic? I mean, they marry Jews. They perform Jewish religious ceremonies. Their rabbis study the Talmud.

Anti-semitism should be made of stronger stuff…

JohnGalt23 on July 25, 2014 at 12:19 AM

A 1776 map is NOT relevant.
.
Numbers 34:3-12 is.

listens2glenn on July 24, 2014 at 10:43 PM

.
There is a matter of Leviticus 25:23

And Israel’s claim on that land is based on their obedience to God. Is the secular state of Israel obedient to God. Are people like Howard Stern obedient to God? If not, what claim do they have to that land?

antifederalist on July 24, 2014 at 11:16 PM

.
I reject your premise … that “Israel’s claim on that land is based on their obedience to God.”
Israel’s claim on everything inside those boundaries (defined in Numbers 34:3-12) is absolute.

Faithlessness on their part doesn’t move, shift, or otherwise alter those boundaries.

Neither does it change God will concerning His intent that Israel possess and govern all of it.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 12:39 AM

Are you telling em that NK are anti-Semitic? I mean, they marry Jews. They perform Jewish religious ceremonies. Their rabbis study the Talmud.
Anti-semitism should be made of stronger stuff…
JohnGalt23 on July 25, 2014 at 12:19 AM

JW23, it’s not worth trying to have a rational discussion with these people. To philo-semitics, their enthusiasm for Jewishness is so strong that any indifference to Jewishness to them looks like hate.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM

.
I reject your premise … that “Israel’s claim on that land is based on their obedience to God.”
Israel’s claim on everything inside those boundaries (defined in Numbers 34:3-12) is absolute.
Faithlessness on their part doesn’t move, shift, or otherwise alter those boundaries.
Neither does it change God will concerning His intent that Israel possess and govern all of it.
listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 12:39 AM

You’re may not accept it but you’re not God. How about reading your Bible once in a while. God made it clear that it is his land and their claim to that land is conditional based on their obedience to Him (read Deuteronomy 27-30). Do you still insist in overruling God based on what you will accept?

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 12:51 AM

I do believe it was Winston Churchill who said something to the effect,’We have no permanent alliances just mutual pacts that serve us, as long as they are in our interest’.That seems like a good rule of thumb.

celtic warrior on July 25, 2014 at 1:14 AM

I do believe it was Winston Churchill who said something to the effect,’We have no permanent alliances just mutual pacts that serve us, as long as they are in our interest’.That seems like a good rule of thumb.

celtic warrior on July 25, 2014 at 1:14 AM

And as that particular mutual pact goes, I think it would be a huge mistake from a strictly geopolitical standpoint for America to abandon Israel — especially now.

gryphon202 on July 25, 2014 at 1:16 AM

I do believe it was Winston Churchill who said something to the effect,’We have no permanent alliances just mutual pacts that serve us, as long as they are in our interest’.That seems like a good rule of thumb.
celtic warrior on July 25, 2014 at 1:14 AM

I agree with your point but the term. “our” denotes that it is something that is inclusive of once specific group of people and excludes everyone else. There is no true America anyone because America includes everyone.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:16 AM

What Stern said is nonsense, but Israel is a useful state as a hedge against some of the other states in the region.

cimbri on July 25, 2014 at 1:17 AM

And as that particular mutual pact goes, I think it would be a huge mistake from a strictly geopolitical standpoint for America to abandon Israel — especially now.
gryphon202 on July 25, 2014 at 1:16 AM

Somehow America exist some 16700 days prior to the founding of Israel. Our existence as a people is not dependent on Israel. I think it would be best that Israel and the US go back to being separate countries.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:20 AM

There is no true America anyone because America includes everyone.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:16 AM

That is what the leftists desire. It’s not a fait accompli by any stretch. “Culture” is not a dirty word, and up until the 1960′s, America had a unique culture of its own.

gryphon202 on July 25, 2014 at 1:20 AM

Somehow America exist some 16700 days prior to the founding of Israel. Our existence as a people is not dependent on Israel. I think it would be best that Israel and the US go back to being separate countries.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:20 AM

It’s not that we depend on Israel for our continuing existence. It’s that the same people who want to wipe them out will eventually move on to us, given the chance (as 9/11 so brutally illustrated). It could be one of those mutually beneficial pacts of which Winston Churchill spoke, though whether it currently is under the present administration is certainly open to debate.

gryphon202 on July 25, 2014 at 1:23 AM

Somehow America exist some Somehow America exist some 16700 62770 days prior to the founding of Israel. Our existence as a people is not dependent on Israel. I think it would be best that Israel and the US go back to being separate countries.
antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:20 AM

Fixed

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:23 AM

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 12:39 AM

.
You’re may not accept it but you’re not God. How about reading your Bible once in a while. God made it clear that it is his land and their claim to that land is conditional based on their obedience to Him (read Deuteronomy 27-30). Do you still insist in overruling God based on what you will accept?

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 12:51 AM

.
Yes, I’m going to overrule God . . . . . or possibly I’m going to reject your interpretation of those scripture passages.

But either way … Israel is going to end up with all of it, and it would be in our (the United States) best interests to support them, towards that end.

It’s definitely going to work against us if we try to broker some kind of “diplomatic” deal that comprises Israel’s claim to all of the land, and allows Hamas to continue lobbing rockets from close proximity.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 1:28 AM

It’s not that we depend on Israel for our continuing existence. It’s that the same people who want to wipe them out will eventually move on to us, given the chance (as 9/11 so brutally illustrated). It could be one of those mutually beneficial pacts of which Winston Churchill spoke, though whether it currently is under the present administration is certainly open to debate.
gryphon202 on July 25, 2014 at 1:23 AM

Move on to us? There is not a single Islamic country that is capable of conquering the US. And regarding. 9-11, remember the US was attacked by people who received visas here. If the concern is strict based on the well being of the US would be better off if we had a more stricture immigration policy and if the US eliminated all military bases located in Islamic countries.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:30 AM

.
Yes, I’m going to overrule God

You’re a brave (and foolish) man.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:31 AM

I’m going to bed … catch you all tomorrow.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 1:31 AM

.
Yes, I’m going to overrule God . . . . . or possibly I’m going to reject your interpretation of those scripture passages.
listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 1:28 AM

Care to interpret this scripture?

Exodus 19:5

If you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples.

Based it seems to me that their Choseness is conditional on their obedience to God.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:38 AM

The modern state of Israel has the absolute right to defend itself, as do all nation states.
Hamas and the muslims hate Israel and wish its destruction because Israel is a Jewish state.
If it were muslim there would not be an issue.

The Jews kicked the Philistines and the rest of the folks there out several millennia ago, then got kicked out by the Romans two millennia ago. Now they are back to stay.

This No Israel in 1776 argument is cr@p. The modern state of Israel was established by the UN in . . . 1948 if memory serves. There certainly is one in 2014 yet I see no State of Palestine or State of Hamas anywhere.

There was no Greece in 1776, there was Ottoman Empire.
There was no Israel in 1776, there was Ottoman Empire.
There was no United States of America in 1776, there was united, rebellious English Colonies who just declared independence.
There were stone age Indian “nations” in North America in 1776, their are none now.

Wars changed all of those, as war has done since the beginning of man.
Get used to it.

Hamas is getting the butt-hurt it deserves.

Bubba Redneck on July 25, 2014 at 1:49 AM

Make Israel the 51st state and nuke every muslim country that attempts to wage war on us.

Bubba Redneck on July 25, 2014 at 1:51 AM

Make Israel the 51st state and nuke every muslim country that attempts to wage war on us.
Bubba Redneck on July 25, 2014 at 1:51 AM

Why should Israel be made a state. We don’t share a common border, race, ethnicity, or religion with them. With this many differences between us there can be no true union (ie commonality with them ). For example, how can functional political union between Christians and Jews exists exists when most Jews (religious or not ) are hostile to Christianity?

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 2:10 AM

There was no Greece in 1776, there was Ottoman Empire.

Bubba Redneck on July 25, 2014 at 1:49 AM

There may have not been an official political entity called Greece but in that land there existed a concentration of people who were ethnically Greek. Btw, it should be noted that most modern nation states are actually multi national/ethnic states. For example, the Kurdish people have no official nation state but their ethnicity exist within Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 2:16 AM

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 2:10 AM

Most liberal Jews.
My FB wall is plastered with links decrying the atrocity that occurred in Mosul.
Many of the Jewish FB groups that I’m in speak up for persecuted Christians. Conservative Jews disagree w/ Christian theology-but we LIKE Christians otherwise.
Quit trying to put us in a box.

annoyinglittletwerp on July 25, 2014 at 4:01 AM

I used to be a huge howard fan until hanging out with George Clooney and swimming in the Hollywood cesspool was more important than a decent radio show.
He whines about the Jews and isreal being attacked yet would still be first in line to perform oral favors for Barry???
Save it. He full of crap.

acetylene420 on July 25, 2014 at 4:32 AM

Imran Khan lives with his dad and mom!

V-rod on July 25, 2014 at 7:02 AM

It’s that the same people who want to wipe them out will eventually move on to us, given the chance (as 9/11 so brutally illustrated).

gryphon202 on July 25, 2014 at 1:23 AM

These would be the Arabs, who while sitting on top of an ocean of the most important natural resource known to man, have a combined GDP smaller than that of the Iberian Peninsula. And we are to fear being wiped out by them?

I am less than impressed…

JohnGalt23 on July 25, 2014 at 7:43 AM

Most liberal Jews.
My FB wall is plastered with links decrying the atrocity that occurred in Mosul.
Many of the Jewish FB groups that I’m in speak up for persecuted Christians. Conservative Jews disagree w/ Christian theology-but we LIKE Christians otherwise.
Quit trying to put us in a box.
annoyinglittletwerp on July 25, 2014 at 4:01 AM

It’s always understood that not everyone is the same and that for every generalization there are exceptions. But generally speaking, many Jews are hostile to Christians. For example, despite all the support evangelicals give to Israel, based on a Pew poll Jews have a slightly higher opinion of Muslims than they do evangelicals.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 8:08 AM

JohnGalt23 on July 25, 2014 at 7:43 AM

.
When a majority of the descendents of Ishmael, Esau, and the sons of Abraham by his concubine Keturah (Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah [I Chron 1:32]) are coming at Israel with weapons that are gleefully donated by Russia, China, and Iran, with the intent of obliterating you … it really doesn’t matter how much of a FAILURE they all are, at building a modern, civilized, functional society … they can still obliterate Israel.

It’s NOT just Hamas.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 9:16 AM

libfreeordie on July 24, 2014 at 7:22 PM

What a coincidence! Most of us feel EXACTLY the same about YOU

PJ Emeritus on July 25, 2014 at 9:54 AM

Yes, I’m going to overrule God . . . . . or possibly I’m going to reject your interpretation of those scripture passages.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 1:28 AM

.
Care to interpret this scripture?

[Exodus 19:5]

If you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples.

Based it seems to me that their Choseness is conditional on their obedience to God.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 1:38 AM

.
Israel’s success and prosperity as a functional, civilized nation … is conditional upon their obedience to God.
.
Israel’s status as God’s “chosen people”, and their claim to all of the land defined by Numbers 34:3-12 is NOT “conditional.”
.
In II Kings 23:31, straight through to the end of II Kings 25, and in II Chronicles 36, the nation of Israel became disobedient to the point of severely compromising themselves, and losing control of the land to Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon.
.
Most of Israel’s citizens were taken captive, along with all the treasures in Jerusalem : … the treasures of the king’s house, and all the vessels of gold which Solomon had made in the temple, as the LORD had said.
.
.
But they didn’t LOSE THEIR STATUS … as God’s “chosen people”, or their claim to the land.

They needed to repent and turn back to God … then God ‘motivated’ Cyrus, King of Persia to begin rebuilding Jerusalem.
.
Sooo … they started over again [Ezra], and that’s where we are today … the most recent attempt of Israel at “starting over again.”

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 10:03 AM

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 10:03 AM

So the Jewish people have no obligation to serve and obey God to receive their land inheritance. Is that your point?

If Jews are His Chosen, what are they chosen for and why were they chosen?

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 10:43 AM

Why anti-Zionism is anti-semitism – Dennis Prager
whatcat on July 24, 2014 at 10:06 PM

And you can be anti-Zionist, and not be an anti-Semite…
JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Theoretically, sure. Tell me when you find one, and I’ll tell you when I find a perpetual motion machine. Let’s see who wins.
Good Solid B-Plus on July 24, 2014 at 10:10 PM

Prager needs to pay a bit more attention. Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist. They do not accept the current state of Israel because it is their position that only the Messiah can re-establish Israel and return the Jews to the land. The current state is, by their reasoning, illegitimate.

So, I guess Orthodox Jews are anti-Semites. Or, I guess, to use the current smear, are self-hating Jews.

Quartermaster on July 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Prager needs to pay a bit more attention. Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist. They do not accept the current state of Israel because it is their position that only the Messiah can re-establish Israel and return the Jews to the land. The current state is, by their reasoning, illegitimate.

So, I guess Orthodox Jews are anti-Semites. Or, I guess, to use the current smear, are self-hating Jews.

Quartermaster on July 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Good point. It’s intellectually lazy and dishonest, and unjust to say that all anti-Zionists are anti-Jewish.

That said, I agree with the basic point Howard was making, setting aside how he phrased it. Israel, while imperfect like very other country in human history, is on the side of Western civilization, and the Palestinians are not.

non-nonpartisan on July 25, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Prager needs to pay a bit more attention. Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist. They do not accept the current state of Israel because it is their position that only the Messiah can re-establish Israel and return the Jews to the land. The current state is, by their reasoning, illegitimate.
So, I guess Orthodox Jews are anti-Semites. Or, I guess, to use the current smear, are self-hating Jews.
Quartermaster on July 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Thanks for making this point. I have heard some Orthodox Jews state that only God can re-establish them that land and that they were not permitted to re-establish themselves.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 12:34 PM

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 10:03 AM

.
So the Jewish people have no obligation to serve and obey God to receive their land inheritance. Is that your point?

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 10:43 AM

.
My point is that God intends for there to be a nation of Israel, and the [Numbers 34:3-12] boundaries are still fully intended, in spite of Israel’s rebellion costing them control of their land, for a time.
.

If Jews are His Chosen, what are they chosen for and why were they chosen?

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 10:43 AM

.
They’re the descendents of Abraham by promise of God that Abraham and Sarah would together conceive a son, after it was found that Sarah’s womb was infertile.

But the whole relationship between Abraham and God began before that, as God found something in Abraham that most other humans on earth didn’t manifest in themselves . . . . . that being “faith”.

Because of Abraham’s faith, God established a continuing testament (more to the point, a “BLOOD covenant”) with Abraham, that was to be passed down to (or inherited by) the succeeding generations.
.
The purpose of this was to bring about the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, and to provide God with a way to show Himself real, to all the world, in the manner He dealt with Israel.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 1:56 PM

When you have lost the under 27 (Stern) and lost the over 72 (Rivers) you have lost the Nation, Barry.

steveracer on July 25, 2014 at 7:28 PM

Prager needs to pay a bit more attention. Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist. They do not accept the current state of Israel because it is their position that only the Messiah can re-establish Israel and return the Jews to the land. The current state is, by their reasoning, illegitimate.

So, I guess Orthodox Jews are anti-Semites. Or, I guess, to use the current smear, are self-hating Jews.

Quartermaster on July 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM

No, Orthodox Jews are not anit-Zionist, some Orthodox Jews (and a small minority at that) are anti-Zionist for the reason you quoted. The vast majority of Orthodox Jews are Zionist (much more so than secular Jews).

That said, yes, many of those anti-Zionist Orthodox (I hate the term ultra-orthodox) are antisemitic. They adhere to a strict interpretation of Rabbinic Judaism and condemn any Jews that dont follow their customs, even to the extent of labeling them non-Jews.

They are less self-hating Jews than other-hating Jews. Still Jewhate which is what most people equate with antisemitism. Not literally true, but neither are Arabs who hate Jews (they are semites too).

Being anti-Israel doesnt make you an antisemite, but being Jewish doesnt preclude you from being either an antisemite or anti-Zionist.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 8:36 PM

Quartermaster on July 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM

.
No, Orthodox Jews are not anit-Zionist, some Orthodox Jews (and a small minority at that) are anti-Zionist for the reason you quoted. The vast majority of Orthodox Jews are Zionist (much more so than secular Jews).

That said, yes, many of those anti-Zionist Orthodox (I hate the term ultra-orthodox) are antisemitic. They adhere to a strict interpretation of Rabbinic Judaism and condemn any Jews that dont follow their customs, even to the extent of labeling them non-Jews.

They are less self-hating Jews than other-hating Jews. Still Jewhate which is what most people equate with antisemitism. Not literally true, but neither are Arabs who hate Jews (they are semites too).

Being anti-Israel doesnt make you an antisemite, but being Jewish doesnt preclude you from being either an antisemite or anti-Zionist.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 8:36 PM

.
That makes much more sense, than anything else posted about this.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 8:47 PM

And you can be anti-Zionist, and not be an anti-Semite…

JohnGalt23 on July 24, 2014 at 10:02 PM

But you cant be an antisemite and a Zionist. So the best place to find antisemites is with the anti-Zionists. It doesnt mean you will hit your mark, but close enough for their purposes.

The word antisemitism doenst even make literal sense when applied to Arab Jew haters, but that is how it is used.

It doesnt really matter whether or not you hate Jews or not, if you dont generally support the existence of Israel you are anti-semetic. Thats how the word is being redefined.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 8:50 PM

Thanks for making this point. I have heard some Orthodox Jews state that only God can re-establish them that land and that they were not permitted to re-establish themselves.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Haredi men throw rocks at ‘immodest’ woman and her baby in Beit Shemesh

haredi-men-throw-rocks-at-immodest-woman-and-her-baby-in-beit-shemesh.premium-1.440001

Its not as bad as lynch-mobs and burning crosses, let alone suicide bombers, but every flag has a fringe.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 8:55 PM

It’s always understood that not everyone is the same and that for every generalization there are exceptions. But generally speaking, many Jews are hostile to Christians. For example, despite all the support evangelicals give to Israel, based on a Pew poll Jews have a slightly higher opinion of Muslims than they do evangelicals.

antifederalist on July 25, 2014 at 8:08 AM

It is always striking to me that many are unaware how strange a time we live in with regards Jewish-Christian-Muslim relations.

In two weeks it is the Jewish calendar anniversary of:

The First Crusade officially commenced on August 15, 1096 (Av 24, AM 4856), killing 10,000 Jews in its first month and destroying Jewish communities in France and the Rhineland. A grand total of 1.2 million Jews were killed by this crusade that started on the 9th of Av.[6][10]
The Jews were expelled from England on July 18, 1290 (Av 9, AM 5050).[6]
The Jews were expelled from France on July 22, 1306 (Av 10, AM 5066).
The Jews were expelled from Spain on July 31, 1492 (Av 7, AM 5252).[7]

(Wiki Tisha B’Av)

These were edicts by Christian monarchs against Jews because they were Christians and Jews were Jews.

Even beyond that, I would think that the history of the forced conversion of Jews to Christianity (which the Jewish community is still feeling the consequences of, but that is another, more interesting, story all together) might also have some impact here.

It wasnt even until the 1960s I believe that the Church repudiated Jewish blame for Jesus’s death.

It is interesting to note that until relatively recently, many Jews enjoyed great freedoms in Muslim countries. One of the forgotten consequences of the Zionism was the expulsion of Jews from Arab and Muslim countries.

There has always been war and strife between these three religions, but in the grand scheme of things Christians being nice (or even tolerating) Jews is only a product of the last 70 years or so.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 9:19 PM

It wasnt even until the 1960s I believe that the Church repudiated Jewish blame for Jesus’s death.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 9:19 PM

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Can you be a little more specific, when you say “the Church”?

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 9:52 PM

Can you be a little more specific, when you say “the Church”?

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 9:52 PM

The Roman Catholic Church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide#Repudiation

(Hey I even used repudiated correctly!)

Even so, just like if you’re a Jew or a Christian you lump all Muslims together even though you know intellectually it isnt true, Christians and Muslims do the same to Jews, and Jews and Muslims do the same to Christians.

You’re those Christ guys; you’re the Allah guys; you’re the drinking Christian babies blood, oh sorry I meant Moses guys.

God punishes unto the 3rd and 4th generations. Some Jews arent that forgiving.

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 10:42 PM

EconomicPirate on July 25, 2014 at 10:42 PM

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Well I sure don’t lump all Jews together, or all Muslims together.
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Why the hang would anyone claiming to be a Christian believer hold the Jews as being “Christ killers”?

If the Jews of the day didn’t crucify Jesus, there wouldn’t be any Christians, today.
That should be so obvious to all Christians, that there’s no excuse for thinking otherwise.

listens2glenn on July 25, 2014 at 11:29 PM

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