Stonewall: Russia reportedly helping rebels destroy crash evidence

posted at 8:31 am on July 19, 2014 by Jazz Shaw

International reporters are calling it the biggest crime scene in the world this morning. And if anyone is expecting a normal, NTSB style investigation of the plane wreckage, that’s probably not going to happen.

Pro-Russia separatist groups in eastern Ukraine are hastily covering up all links to the Buk missile battery suspected to have been used to shoot down the Malaysia Airlines passenger plane, according to western-based defence and intelligence specialists.

As the UN security council called for a “full, thorough independent international investigation” into the downing of the plane, concern that a cover-up was under way was fuelled by a standoff at part of the crash site between observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) and rebel gunmen, which ended with a warning shot being fired.

Postings on rebel websites immediately after the crash boasted of having shot down what they claimed was an Antonov Ukrainian military transport plane, but these have since been deleted.

And in case Putin still wants to continue his innocent, “who me?” routine, the AP is throwing cold water on that one as well.

Ukraine accused Russia on Saturday of assisting separatist rebels in destroying evidence at the crash site of a Malaysia Airlines plane shot down with 298 people onboard.

The government in Kiev said militiamen have removed 38 bodies from the crash site and have taken them to the rebel-held city of Donetsk. It says the bodies were transported with the assistance of specialists with distinct Russian accents.

The rebels are also “seeking large transports to carry away plane fragments to Russia,” the Ukrainian government said in a statement.

This is on top of video being released showing the rocket launcher used in the attack allegedly being hustled back over the border into Mother Russia. To add insult to injury, CNN reports that the pro-Russian rebels have allegedly already been looting the dead. Just sitting and watching the live reports come in from the field it seems clear that there is a completely separate crime taking place apart from the initial horror of having the plane shot down. The miles long debris field where Flight 17 came down is, by current reports, still littered with hundreds of bodies. Other accounts indicate that some of the bodies have been removed with no clear idea where they are being taken, but they may have gone to Russia. None of the normal protocols are being followed at this point, and questions remain about where the plane’s black boxes are and if they will be turned over for proper processing.

This has already turned into an international outrage, but what will be done about it? I would hope that there is a limit as to how much pressure Putin thinks his country can sustain before he has to come to the table and behave decently. Following the unofficial war in Ukraine there didn’t seem to be enough unity around the world in terms of holding Russia accountable, possibly out of fear of their reprisal and military capability. This was probably aided by a general sense that this was a “local issue” to be sorted out between the Ukrainians and the Russians and a lack of interest in yet another global conflict. (Understandable to a degree.)

But this sort of humanitarian crisis – particularly the urgent need to recover the bodies of the victims and provide relief to their families – may bring enough pressure on Putin to force him into acting decently. At least we can hope so. Failing that, I’m not sure what other options are left. Sanctions certainly don’t seem to be impressing Putin, and I don’t think there are many sane people who actually want to see a shooting war erupt with Russia.


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Reports from the field say Russians are getting advice from Obama evidence destruction team and AG Holder.

Standby for further updates.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:36 AM

The Kremlin’s paid trolls will be along shortly to say that is merely evidence that it was Ukraine that targeted the flight…intentionally.

Steve Eggleston on July 19, 2014 at 8:37 AM

Reports from the field say Russians are getting advice from Obama evidence destruction team and AG Holder.

Standby for further updates.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:36 AM

I submit that Team SCOAMT had their training supplied by the KGB. After all, the Russians are masters at destroying evidence, and they are of a like mind.

Steve Eggleston on July 19, 2014 at 8:38 AM

Putin has no fear or respect for Obama. Neither do I.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM

Looks like the Russians are taking a page from the Obama Administration with regards to destroying evidence and then daring anyone to call them on it.

frost_ on July 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

Putin has no fear or respect for Obama. Neither do I.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 8:40 AM

I think they’re playing a game.

Putin knows who and what Obama is, and Obama probably wishes he could crack down on critics like Putin. The supposed rivalry is all for show.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

“What difference does it make?” – Hillary Clinton

myiq2xu on July 19, 2014 at 8:45 AM

We need to attack Putin with some really good hashtags.

ex Dem from Miami on July 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

In a few days the Russians will report that the computer hard drive on the plane crashed and was destroyed-so all the emails, oops, signals, have been lost.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

OT: CNN has some pro-hamas hack claiming israel is deliberately attacking women and children….
CNN just letting her say her piece without any objection

typical

cmsinaz on July 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

The Kremlin’s paid trolls will be along shortly to say that is merely evidence that it was Ukraine that targeted the flight…intentionally.

Steve Eggleston on July 19, 2014 at 8:37 AM

Beat me to it. Practically the minute the plane went down there were accusations flying that Ukraine did it. There’s still quite a contingent of people around the web saying this is all a US “neocon”/Ukrainian plot to drag the US into war, never mind that Obama is terrified of Putin and doesn’t want to fight him.

Doomberg on July 19, 2014 at 8:48 AM

Russia reportedly helping rebels destroy crash evidence

Wow,who saw that coming? Knock me over with a feather.

dentalque on July 19, 2014 at 8:48 AM

The Europeans won’t do anything because Putin will cut off their natural gas supply.

Obama won’t do anything because he needs Russia’s “help” with Syria and Iran.

Putin has been playing three-dimensional chess while the West has been playing tiddly-winks.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM

Flexibility

burrata on July 19, 2014 at 8:51 AM

What absurd comedy.

The UN Security Counil? Oh, the council controlled for decades by the USSR or Russia. There is a farce.

What will be done? Certainly the WH is hastily drafting a ‘stern’ letter regarding what appears to be ‘maybe a tragedy’. Prolly after a fundraiser or two, a round of golf and a family vacation.

Sheesh, by the time it gets on The One’s radar screen– midterms!

socalcon on July 19, 2014 at 8:51 AM

OT: CNN has some pro-hamas hack claiming israel is deliberately attacking women and children….
CNN just letting her say her piece without any objection

typical

cmsinaz on July 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

It’s pretty disgusting how much obviously staged Pallywood productions are making their way onto US TV.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 8:51 AM

Lighten up Francis,
Really- how is this any different than the deception and obfuscation of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.?
This is SOP for Team Obamunist in the country where we let freedom ring.
We live in with a government where no lie is not able to be told.
5th amendment. Da.

FlaMurph on July 19, 2014 at 8:51 AM

The Europeans won’t do anything because Putin will cut off their natural gas supply.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM

Since we could probably supply Europe with virtually all it’s natural gas needs, the left fights against production here and shipment abroad.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM

I think they’re playing a game.

Putin knows who and what Obama is, and Obama probably wishes he could crack down on critics like Putin. The supposed rivalry is all for show.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

Obama’s reign will be over in a week or less the day he gives the order to go violent in suppressing opposition.

Putins population is unarmed, making thuggery a lot easier. Obama will be facing a vastly different situation.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM

300 people had to die before the West could see that Putin is still the KGB thug he always was, and Sochi was a corrupt sham.

And the West won’t do anything. Most of the passengers were Dutch, and they’re too busy trying to find new groups to euthanize to do anything more than a lame protest.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM

And the West won’t do anything. Most of the passengers were Dutch, and they’re too busy trying to find new groups to euthanize to do anything more than a lame protest.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM

I’d say that was funny but it’s not only true but very sad. Besides, France is too busy letting Muslims destroy it’s cities and running Jews off.

I wonder if they’ll be a tipping point in Europe or if they’ll just quietly become an Islamic continent.

Maybe someone can dig up Charles Martel and extract some DNA.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:58 AM

This has already turned into an international outrage, but what will be done about it? I would hope that there is a limit as to how much pressure Putin thinks his country can sustain before he has to come to the table and behave decently.

Swear out an international warrant for the arrest of those we believe responsible, there’s an Igor fellow for instance.

And include Vladimir Putin as an accessory after the fact for 298 murders. Interpol might not be able to get him, but it should limit his international travels.

rbj on July 19, 2014 at 8:58 AM

I would hope that there is a limit as to how much pressure Putin thinks his country can sustain before he has to come to the table and behave decently.

Like that’s ever worked, anywhere.

But this sort of humanitarian crisis – particularly the urgent need to recover the bodies of the victims and provide relief to their families – may bring enough pressure on Putin to force him into acting decently.

Don’t hold your breath.

Since there’s no real believable reason for the Russians, separatists, Ukrainians, or small furry creatures from the Crab Nebula to shoot down that airliner, but according to the best available evidence so far it was shot down, the most likely explanation is a serious f**kup at the local level. Either they mistook it for another Ukrainian transport, or else somebody wanted to play terrorist “just to see what would happen”.

Now Putin has an international incident on his hands and no way to palm it off. Either the separatists pulled the trigger with SAMs he gave them (which wasn’t too smart), or worse yet Russian “advisors” did it (which would be dumbness of Biblical proportions- think Pharaoh ignoring Moses over and over again).

His best course would be to hang whoever was responsible- literally. But what he’s more likely to do is simply ignore all foreign outrage, relying on the old Russian tradition of “what happens here is none of anyone else’s business”.

We might find out what really happened when some FSB bigwig writes his memoirs. Sometime around 2040.

clear ether

eon

eon on July 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM

And include Vladimir Putin as an accessory after the fact for 298 murders. Interpol might not be able to get him, but it should limit his international travels.

rbj on July 19, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Liberals wouldn’t like that very much. Liberals like old Vlad, so does Obama.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 9:00 AM

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM

Good points sir.

celtic warrior on July 19, 2014 at 9:04 AM

Looks like the Russians are taking a page from the Obama Administration with regards to destroying evidence and then daring anyone to call them on it.

frost_ on July 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM

Exactly. Both men have blood on their hands. Both men lie about it and cover it up. And I’m supposed to be upset about Putin and give Jugears a pass? No thanks.

Rational Thought on July 19, 2014 at 9:04 AM

This is not the sort of missile you order from ACME and assemble yourself out of the box. It was a serious military missile launcher, probably SA-11, and you couldn’t figure out how to turn the darn things on without training.

I suspect the Russian irregulars were trained by the Red Army and really thought they were bagging another Ukrainian cargo plane.

~

Maybe someone can dig up Charles Martel and extract some DNA.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Or at least some testicles.

Adjoran on July 19, 2014 at 9:06 AM

We live in strange times. I honestly do not know what it is going to take to shake the sleeping liberal progressives. I checked out the list I have made of my most liberal acquaintances on Facebook this morning. I found mostly CRICKETS, except for the progressive Jewish friends who are posting pro-Israel info (with NO LIKES from any of their progressive, non-Jewish friends, by the way.) The only thing I could find was a picture posted of a pond, with a tree growing on a piece of driftwood and the caption:

“Even in the darkest times, there is always a way. Don’t give up”

and then her comment: “It may not be the way you expected, but there is one…”
This is someone who supports Palestine and blames Sarah Palin for EVERYTHING.

She is probably trying to figure out the angle on how Republicans are responsible for everything that happened this week…

Otherwise it is all Yoga, all the time for progressives on FB…

djl130 on July 19, 2014 at 9:08 AM

Now Putin has an international incident on his hands and no way to palm it off. Either the separatists pulled the trigger with SAMs he gave them (which wasn’t too smart), or worse yet Russian “advisors” did it (which would be dumbness of Biblical proportions- think Pharaoh ignoring Moses over and over again).
eon on July 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM

What local “rebel” would have the technical knowledge to operate a complicated military system like a multi-vehicle SAM system?
This is Vietnam all over again — but with the Russian military being able to blend in better because the locals are also Russian.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

MeanWhile,……………….RETALIATE:

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/ukraine-protests-over-eu-agreement-delay/

Ukraine, Russia political crisis
Russia

1h
Russian Foreign Minister: Russia will retaliate in reaction to US imposing new sanctions over Ukraine crisis – @Reuters
End of alert
============

Luhans’k, Luhansk Oblast, UA
4h
Fighting reported in eastern Ukrainian city of Luhansk; Defense Minister claims army has control of its southeastern districts from separatists – @Reuters
End of alert
============

Malaysia Airlines plane crash in Ukraine, July 17, 2014
12h
Vice President Biden, Ukraine President Poroshenko agree in call that Russia must publically call on separatists to lay down weapons, grant access to investigators, White House says – @Reuters

Mark Knoller @markknoller · Jul 16

List of latest Russian companies and individuals designated for sanctions due to Ukraine intervention. http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20140716.aspx

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20140716.aspx

canopfor on July 19, 2014 at 9:12 AM

President Obama, you have a dead American citizen losing somewhere in a sunflower field in Ukraine. Will you send anyone in there to retrieve him?

can_con on July 19, 2014 at 9:20 AM

Lieing in a sunflower field

can_con on July 19, 2014 at 9:21 AM

President Obama, you have a dead American citizen losing somewhere in a sunflower field in Ukraine. Will you send anyone in there to retrieve him?

can_con on July 19, 2014 at 9:20 AM

One of the cruelest aspects of this tragedy is that the Russians will likely not turn over all the bodies to the families.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 9:21 AM

Putin blows innocent people out of the sky and the world does nothing?

What a shame!

weedisgood on July 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM

By the way, I saw an interview on a British station of someone who makes an app that allows smart phones to identify airline flights. It’s at least possible that the Russians operating the SAM battery were using it to identify Ukrainian military aircraft by their lack of ID. Noting that we just recently had a Malaysian airliner turn off it’s transponder, you can at least theorize that something similar happened to this flight. The Russians see jumbo jet without an airline ID, assume it is full of Ukrainian soldiers, and fire away, only realizing that they screwed up when they can’t find any Ukrainian uniforms or weapons in the wreckage.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 9:23 AM

weedisgood on July 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM

and obama is blowing up this country and no one does anything.

thats the real shame.

renalin on July 19, 2014 at 9:23 AM

This has already turned into an international outrage, but what will be done about it?

Nothing.

Because there is no international or European leader with the balls to do anything.

The UN? Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

GarandFan on July 19, 2014 at 9:25 AM

Nothing.

Because there is no international or European leader with the balls to do anything.

The UN? Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

GarandFan on July 19, 2014 at 9:25 AM

Exactly

BallisticBob on July 19, 2014 at 9:28 AM

And include Vladimir Putin as an accessory after the fact for 298 murders. Interpol might not be able to get him, but it should limit his international travels.

rbj on July 19, 2014 at 8:58 AM

So your solution is to boost Putin’s popularity at home (and that is exactly what a weak-a$$ warrant will do in the land with a long-practiced “us vs. the world” mentality) and restrict him from traveling to countries he wasn’t visiting in the first place.

What the heck. It’s still more than the Obama crew will ever do.

dreadnought62 on July 19, 2014 at 9:29 AM

The Russians see jumbo jet without an airline ID, assume it is full of Ukrainian soldiers, and fire away, only realizing that they screwed up when they can’t find any Ukrainian uniforms or weapons in the wreckage.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 9:23 AM

Somewhere in western Russia, undertakers are dressing all the male bodies in Ukrainian army uniforms.

Wethal on July 19, 2014 at 9:29 AM

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 9:23 AM

Flightradar24 had the flight designated MH17, so the transponder was operating.

BallisticBob on July 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM

It’s not just a crime scene. It’s also like a grave site. Desecration of the dead is disgusting. Adding insult to injury.

Crux Australis on July 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM

Liberals wouldn’t like that very much. Liberals like old Vlad, so does Obama.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 9:00 AM

So do the Russians.He’s polling at 80%.

docflash on July 19, 2014 at 9:32 AM

may bring enough pressure on Putin to force him into acting decently

Give me two bags of whatever you’re smoking.

wdkeller on July 19, 2014 at 9:34 AM

Exactly, what is an “International reporter?”

Frank

franksalterego on July 19, 2014 at 9:34 AM

“Russian reset” anybody? Hillary? Obama? Nobody?

This is what happens when the U.S. completely disengages from situations. You not only lose credibility, but people lose their lives.

You want a “red line”? Well it should have been the transfer of sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons and Russian advisers to their neanderthal handmaidens.

Now innocent men, women and children have been blown from the sky by people with a fifth grade education operating advanced weaponry.

But, you know- they were “foreigners” and this is “Europe’s problem”.

Sure.

How many people must lose their lives before people determine the loss of American influence in the world is pointing us towards many more disasters.

There are many ways to project influence. Sitting on your ass, playing golf, going for burgers or even running for president and saying you’ll do a great job because, you know, “it’s time” or something is not amongst them.

Marcus Traianus on July 19, 2014 at 9:35 AM

War Crime

There… I said it.

Carry on.

Frank

franksalterego on July 19, 2014 at 9:36 AM

War Crime

There… I said it.

Carry on.

Frank

franksalterego on July 19, 2014 at 9:36 AM

Act Of War.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 9:43 AM

So do the Russians.He’s polling at 80%.

docflash on July 19, 2014 at 9:32 AM

What a piker, I’m sure Stalin never got less than 110%

whbates on July 19, 2014 at 9:49 AM

What local “rebel” would have the technical knowledge to operate a complicated military system like a multi-vehicle SAM system?

Ones trained by Russian advisors, just like every Arab state. Which shows that this “separatist” movement has been in the works for a while longer than Putin & Co. admit; you can teach some yutz to use an AK in about a day (although when up against an actual, trained soldier he’s going to end up abruptly dead), but you don’t train SAM crews in much less than a year, even if it’s “when this light lights up, press this button”-level instruction. (Yes, I know operating a mobile FAAD SAM battery is a Hell of a lot more complicated than that, which just proves the point.)

This is Vietnam all over again — but with the Russian military being able to blend in better because the locals are also Russian.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

No argument there. Either way, it’s on Vladmir. I just don’t expect him to ever ‘fess up. Why should he?

Who’s going to make him? The One? The Eurodolts?

Oprah?

Not Pygmalion likely, any way you look at it.

clear ether

eon

eon on July 19, 2014 at 9:52 AM

IF THEY WANT TO ENSURE A 100% COVER-UP, THEY NEED TO HIRE IRS, VA admin , OBAMA, HOLDER AND LERNER….THEY HAVE A 100% COVER-UP GUARANTEE!!

ARIZONAVETERAN on July 19, 2014 at 9:54 AM

This is actually helpful in illustrating another point, which is that civilian trials for terrorists is a bad idea. If we can’t secure a crime scene in Europe, how are we secure a crime scene in, say, Kabul or Tikrit? Do Holder & Co. really expect our troops to cordon these areas off and dust for fingerprints? In this case, I find it highly unlikely that the black box or any other important evidence will be FedExed to Kiev anytime soon.

stout77 on July 19, 2014 at 10:02 AM

ex Dem from Miami on July 19, 2014 at 8:47 AM

ahahahhahha that is AWESOME!!!

ARIZONAVETERAN on July 19, 2014 at 10:04 AM

This has already turned into an international outrage, but what will be done about it?

Well short of the Dutch mounting a suicide raid like 9/11 on the Kremlin????

Nothing.

redguy on July 19, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Who cares what the AP has to say or report. They are so corrupt that their credibility is shot to hell…..

Realdemocrat1 on July 19, 2014 at 10:08 AM

Putin should come and use Obama’s “not a smidgen of corruption” line…..that would be awesome

Realdemocrat1 on July 19, 2014 at 10:09 AM

This is not our problem. Let the Europeans handle it.

Realdemocrat1 on July 19, 2014 at 10:10 AM

Putin blows innocent people out of the sky and the world does nothing?

What a shame!

weedisgood on July 19, 2014 at 9:22 AM

Obama blows up innocents on the ground and you.re happy as a clam.

RickB on July 19, 2014 at 10:11 AM

Ones trained by Russian advisors, just like every Arab state. Which shows that this “separatist” movement has been in the works for a while longer than Putin & Co. admit; you can teach some yutz to use an AK in about a day (although when up against an actual, trained soldier he’s going to end up abruptly dead), but you don’t train SAM crews in much less than a year, even if it’s “when this light lights up, press this button”-level instruction. (Yes, I know operating a mobile FAAD SAM battery is a Hell of a lot more complicated than that, which just proves the point.)

According to my Ukrainian friends they are being trained just across the border near Rostov-on-Don.

BrewYerOwn on July 19, 2014 at 10:11 AM

Ramp up the $100 billion lawsuit against Russia, now, naming a bunch of top leaders including Putin, and the Russian nationalists in the Ukraine, as well, then start asking for the freezing of assets to cover for it.

Dusty on July 19, 2014 at 10:17 AM

Malaysia Airlines plane crash in Ukraine, July 17, 2014
12h
Vice President Biden, Ukraine President Poroshenko agree in call that Russia must publically call on separatists to lay down weapons, grant access to investigators, White House says – @Reuters

Mark Knoller @markknoller · Jul 16

Why is the White House using Biden as their mouthpiece for a lot of this. Doesn’t Obama have the balls to make statements like this himself.

Or is Biden taking the lead because Obama is basically missing in action, and the executive branch understands that and they are trying to cover for him.

Walter L. Newton on July 19, 2014 at 10:21 AM

Seeing as how downing the airline is an act of war, I wonder if Malaysia will declare it?

Iblis on July 19, 2014 at 10:23 AM

Remember the “evil empire”?

Also, Romney was right, oba-MAO was wrong and a liar. Oba-MAO lied, people died…. again, and again, and again, and again. The fruits of progress liberalism.

ultracon on July 19, 2014 at 10:26 AM

They’re looting people blown from an airliner.

Lefties, remember this line: “The eighties called, they want their foreign policy back.”

Bishop on July 19, 2014 at 10:27 AM

I think Vlad knows he has to return the bodies. He’s probably trying to find the best way to do it. Do you hand them over to the Ukrainians or take them to Russia and process them and send them home? Or do you and your operatives just fade away and let the Ukrainians come in and deal with it? It also depends on how much control he has over the “separatists”. He may be outfitting them but would they do what he says. They might want to hold the bodies hostage.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 10:32 AM

Heard on Sean yesterday that the ‘rebels’ were looting the site, taking valuables from bodies, purses, and wallets. They are the real scum.

Kissmygrits on July 19, 2014 at 10:41 AM

Whoever said “Russia is a 3rd world nation with a 1st world military” was so spot-on it hurts.

Crash scenes aren’t processed this way, obviously, just carting away the pieces and piling them up somewhere in a remote pit, and dead victims being looted makes my skin crawl. These are the actions of savages and that’s exactly who we are dealing with here, savages.

That the Russians themselves dream of having Stalin back in power is even creepier and shows that they are just as deluded and backward as any resident of Gaza, Iraq, or Afghanistan. They’re human trash and we need to approach our foreign policy with that in mind.

Bishop on July 19, 2014 at 10:42 AM

You’d think China would be a little upset over this as I’m sure some of those passengers were Chinese. They tend to get even to settle scores. If our dear leader had given the Ukranians weapons when this first started so they could have battled the ‘rebels’ on an even basis, this might not have happened. Barky is as much at fault as Pooti.

Kissmygrits on July 19, 2014 at 10:44 AM

Why is the White House using Biden as their mouthpiece for a lot of this. Doesn’t Obama have the balls to make statements like this himself.

Or is Biden taking the lead because Obama is basically missing in action, and the executive branch understands that and they are trying to cover for him.

Walter L. Newton on July 19, 2014 at 10:21 AM

Obama is a weakling. I think he has done what weaklings do and dug in his heels and refuses to play. I almost feel sorry for Valerie who is having to do things that aren’t behind the scenes. Remember a few days ago when she put out a press release. I think she and Biden are trying to keep things together. I have said before one of these days the staff will go in to work and find these people gone. If the Dem leaders were smart they would go in and ask Obungle to abdicate. But they aren’t sure if that would help them.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 10:45 AM

“It’s only about crash. Censure and move on….”

———– Moveon-dot-org

/

viking01 on July 19, 2014 at 10:49 AM

My idea: Deny all Russian aircraft landing rights everywhere outside of Russia.

Lord Whorfin on July 19, 2014 at 10:52 AM

Stonewall: Russia reportedly helping rebels destroy crash evidence

…the communists here and there…know what to do!

JugEarsButtHurt on July 19, 2014 at 10:53 AM

The Russians tried to get information from the black box but apparently the hard drive crashed so they threw it in the trash.

Bishop on July 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM

“You’d think it was Obama’s Chicago on a weekend.”, witnesses said.

viking01 on July 19, 2014 at 10:58 AM

WMDs trucked from Iraq to Syria; yeah, they know the drill.

formwiz on July 19, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Putin will investigate this. Trust him to get back to us. Not a smidgen of corruption…..

Realdemocrat1 on July 19, 2014 at 11:02 AM

…this is a fake shoot-down!

JugEarsButtHurt on July 19, 2014 at 11:06 AM

Hey Obama, the 1980s called and its foreign policy wants to kick your worthless ass.

somewhatconcerned on July 19, 2014 at 11:08 AM

You’d think China would be a little upset over this as I’m sure some of those passengers were Chinese. They tend to get even to settle scores. If our dear leader had given the Ukranians weapons when this first started so they could have battled the ‘rebels’ on an even basis, this might not have happened. Barky is as much at fault as Pooti.

Kissmygrits on July 19, 2014 at 10:44 AM

China produces public unrest when it serves the purpose of it’s rulers. Attacking the credibility of Malaysia serves their purpose when they are grabbing territory in the South China Sea. Attacking Russian credibility does not. At least for now.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM

Russian terrorists in the Ukraine are being trained and led by “former” FSB officers. What was astounding to me is how stupid and somewhat crazy they are. The comments about since it was a passenger plane, then it must be full of spies was amazing. There is a lot of information in the intercept of their communications. I believe the Ukrainian military must have a lot of intelligence about the terrorists order of battle, and their intentions. I would not be surprised if Putin uses this to justify moving main force units into southeastern Ukraine to “stabilize the situation.”

rlwo2008 on July 19, 2014 at 11:21 AM

Russia reportedly helping rebels destroy crash evidence

Who’s reporting that?

Akzed on July 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM

“RESET!”

dpduq on July 19, 2014 at 11:27 AM

Funny how all the bad guys are “terrorists” these days.

I mean, not ha ha funny, just funny.

Akzed on July 19, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Funny how all the bad guys are “terrorists” these days.

I mean, not ha ha funny, just funny.

Akzed on July 19, 2014 at 11:28 AM

In this case, “terrorist” is fairly accurate.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 11:30 AM

So much for this being an accident.

If you want to start making outsiders think twice about coming anywhere near Ukraine, then this is the first step of Russia seeking to isolate it in all ways.

An accident Putin would want investigated to clear Russia… and he could blame it on ‘separatists’ and just say that they were ‘inexperienced’ or ‘trigger happy’. Plus he could keep on supporting them to help ‘regularize’ the state of affairs. He isn’t doing that.

ajacksonian on July 19, 2014 at 11:36 AM

In this case, “terrorist” is fairly accurate. Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 11:30 AM

Go on…

Akzed on July 19, 2014 at 11:37 AM

Obama’s reign will be over in a week or less the day he gives the order to go violent in suppressing opposition.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 AM

Tell that to Randy Weaver and David Koresh. GHWB and Bill Clinton say hi.

fossten on July 19, 2014 at 11:43 AM

I’m not saying that anyone in govt actually wants to do it, but how might a govt go about synchronizing its population’s views?

And don’t even mention false flag operations, because we all know that there are no such things. Nor is there any such thing as “wagging the dog.” That’s just a movie.

Akzed on July 19, 2014 at 11:48 AM

No one has ever even given a moment’s thought to how to manipulate social networks of any kind.

Akzed on July 19, 2014 at 11:57 AM

Murderers almost always try to cover up their crimes.That’s no surprise.

Most likely what happened was a criminally irresponsible accident of mistaken identity.

But conspiracy theorists might want to ponder this: You might, accidentally on purpose, shoot down a civilian airliner, as a trial balloon, to test the West’s resolve. It is already known that an incompetent imbecile resides in the White House and that Western Europe lacks balls, a strong military and is economically dependent on your natural gas. A lack of forceful response (which , alas, appears to be the reaction) could trigger severe Russian expansionism not only into the rest Ukraine but the remainder of Europe as well.

MaiDee on July 19, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Murderers almost always try to cover up their crimes.That’s no surprise.

Most likely what happened was a criminally irresponsible accident of mistaken identity.

But conspiracy theorists might want to ponder this: You might, accidentally on purpose, shoot down a civilian airliner, as a trial balloon, to test the West’s resolve. It is already known that an incompetent imbecile resides in the White House and that Western Europe lacks balls, a strong military and is economically dependent on your natural gas. A lack of forceful response (which , alas, appears to be the reaction) could trigger severe Russian expansionism not only into the rest of Ukraine but the remainder of Europe as well.

MaiDee on July 19, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Years ago I became involved in an NTSB “investigation” of a fire that destroyed a major aircraft. My prior, ordinary citizen’s, belief that the NTSB was a neutral truth seeking investigative body was eliminated quickly. The NTSB was there to serve its constituents, and it worked with its constitutes to attempt to prove the pre-determined and exculpatory-to-them cause of the fire. They failed, much to their dismay.

GaltBlvnAtty on July 19, 2014 at 12:09 PM

What local “rebel” would have the technical knowledge to operate a complicated military system like a multi-vehicle SAM system?
This is Vietnam all over again — but with the Russian military being able to blend in better because the locals are also Russian.

Count to 10 on July 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

You’ve kinda answered your own question. You’re assuming there are no Ukranian seperatists/rebels (whatever you want to call them) who haven’t been trained on using this system. You’re also assuming the Ukranian government forces don’t have SAMs they still control in the area.

Regardless, the main question in my mind is still, what on God’s green earth was that flight doing in that airspace? Only a stupid person would be flying that route through a war zone. Their route was also more north than usual according to the data I’ve seen on Flightaware’s site.

oryguncon on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 PM

Putin just figures he can do whatever he wants in this region. Why are we not arming the Ukrainians? Obama is willing to arm the so-called “moderate” Syrian rebels, and these weapons would most likely wind up in the hands of ISIS jihadists. Is Obama that fearful of Putin? There’s something really sick about this man’s foreign policy.

TarheelBen on July 19, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Weren’t most of the victims on that plane from the Netherlands? I found this from a Dutch news site in English: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/07/furious_dutch_prime_minister_t.php

More headlines here: http://www.dutchnews.nl/

theotherone on July 19, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Putin has hired Lois Lerner to help clean this mess up.

profitsbeard on July 19, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Weren’t most of the victims on that plane from the Netherlands?

theotherone on July 19, 2014 at 12:45 PM

I’ve read that 192 of the victims were Dutch.

TarheelBen on July 19, 2014 at 12:57 PM

Putin just figures he can do whatever he wants in this region. Why are we not arming the Ukrainians? Obama is willing to arm the so-called “moderate” Syrian rebels, and these weapons would most likely wind up in the hands of ISIS jihadists. Is Obama that fearful of Putin? There’s something really sick about this man’s foreign policy.

TarheelBen on July 19, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Obama is simply anti-liberty and pro-Islam.

Is there anything he’s done since he’s been in office that would make you believe otherwise?

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 1:02 PM

Is there anything he’s done since he’s been in office that would make you believe otherwise?

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 1:02 PM

Nope, he’s actually been pretty consistent in that regard.

TarheelBen on July 19, 2014 at 1:08 PM

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