ISIS begins purge of Iraqi Christians

posted at 11:31 am on July 19, 2014 by Noah Rothman

Fighters with the ISIS/ISIL won a major victory over Iraqi security forces this week when they retook Saddam Hussein’s hometown, Tikrit, on June 11 after more than two weeks of fighting. ISIS rebels have since repulsed several attempts by Iraqi troops to retake the city located just 140 kilometers from Baghdad.

Consolidating their gains, ISIS militants overran Iraqi soldiers protecting a former U.S. military base on Friday, killing and capturing hundreds of Iraq fighters who had been orchestrating efforts to retake Tikrit.

“Beginning late Thursday, the Islamist forces stormed Camp Speicher, a former U.S. military base named for a pilot who disappeared during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and overwhelmed the troops there,” a McClatchy dispatch from Iraq read.

Interviews with Tikrit residents and statements on Twitter accounts associated with the Islamic State described massive government losses. One Twitter post said Islamic State militants had shot down or destroyed on the ground as many as eight helicopters, a number that if confirmed would be a catastrophic loss for the government. Another Twitter posting said Islamic State militants had set the base’s fuel storage tanks on fire and that a suicide bomber had attacked a “gathering” of government soldiers.

One resident said that as many as 700 government soldiers and 150 fighters he described as Iranians, but who may have been Shiite Muslim militiamen, had participated in the final battle. Sunni Muslims in central Iraq often inaccurately describe Iraqi Shiites as Iranians.

This major defeat for pro-Western forces in Iraq may not be the most grim news coming out of the country in recent days.

In the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, where ISIS fighters have been in control for weeks, members of a local Christian community have been told they have until Sunday to either consent to pay a tax in order to remain there, convert to Islam, or be killed.

Thousands of Christian residents of the city are reportedly fleeing the area ahead of the deadline.

Witnesses said messages telling Christians to leave the city by Saturday were blared through loudspeakers from the city’s mosques Friday.

A statement dated from last week and purportedly issued by ISIS that took over the city and large swathes of Iraq during a sweeping offensive last month warned Mosul’s Christians they should convert, pay a special tax, leave or face death.

“We were shocked by the distribution of a statement by the Islamic State calling on Christians to convert to Islam, or to pay unspecified tribute, or to leave their city and their homes taking only their clothes and no luggage, and that their homes would then belong to the Islamic State,” Sako said.

On Friday, the U.S. State Department expressed “outrage” over this development:

Mosul has a rich Christian tradition and is home to the several tombs of figures from the Old Testament, including Jonah. According to a statement released by ISIS and obtained by AFP, for those Christians who do not abandon that tradition his weekend, “there will be nothing for them but the sword.”


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Forcing Christians to provide birth control and abortions against their will is also a form of Jizya.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 11:34 AM

Mosul has a rich Christian tradition and is home to the several tombs of figures from the Old Testament, including Jonah. According to a statement released by ISIS and obtained by AFP, for those Christians who do not abandon that tradition his weekend, “there will be nothing for them but the sword.”

libfreeordie doesn’t believe that Christians are persecuted or that Islam is anything to worry about.

hawkdriver on July 19, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Seems like I saw an article last week where these barbarians already smashed Jonah’s tomb to pieces.

stout77 on July 19, 2014 at 11:39 AM

I’m not worried about it. It’s been tweeted about so everything’s cool. #meangirldiplomacy

Wisdom_of_Homer on July 19, 2014 at 11:40 AM

libfreeordie doesn’t believe that Christians are persecuted or that Islam is anything to worry about.

hawkdriver on July 19, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Christian persecution by the Obama Regime on the other hand, is something to be Barry worried about.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 11:40 AM

This is what happens when you’re never vigilant.
The West has become an enclave of Al Capp’s The Shmoos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmoo

vityas on July 19, 2014 at 11:41 AM

libfreeordie doesn’t believe that Christians are persecuted or that Islam is anything to worry about.

hawkdriver on July 19, 2014 at 11:39 AM

That’s because it only believes in Chicago Jesus.

Wisdom_of_Homer on July 19, 2014 at 11:42 AM

And the little dictator parties on.

rplat on July 19, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Islam without its mask.

rbj on July 19, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Obama administration: “So”?

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Mere collateral damage from obama’s campaign promise.

jmtham156 on July 19, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Crusades, anyone?

formwiz on July 19, 2014 at 11:46 AM

Ancient apostolic churches in that region.
God Bless those clergy and parishioners

workingclass artist on July 19, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Barky was heard to say from the golf course ” Nobody’s madder than me, amarite?”

#Bringbackour prophet

Exninja on July 19, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Drive the Christians from Iraq.
“My plan is working perfectly.” – King Putt

Missilengr on July 19, 2014 at 11:49 AM

Restablish the Military Orders…Templars etc.

workingclass artist on July 19, 2014 at 11:49 AM

obama doesn’t give a damn about his real brothers but he sure loves his bros from Syria.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:49 AM

Some idiot commented yesterday that Reagan spoke about the other Russian plane falling from the sky “only 4 days later, from the WH”.

Yes, he was on vacation that time, and came out of vacation…and…this is the big difference – he increased defense.

This guy is at Camp David, a place he abhors, but it makes for good photo ops. Wait, he hates photo ops.

It’s confusing.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:52 AM

Liberals couldn’t care less. Israel defending itself from attacks by Hamas? Now that’s something to go apesh!t about.

darwin on July 19, 2014 at 11:53 AM

This major defeat for pro-Western forces in Iraq

Pro Western are they? Mostly secular? Widely moderate?

Well they aren’t inclusive so that spoils everything.

BL@KBIRD on July 19, 2014 at 11:56 AM

Don’t think that a few IS (formerly known as ISIS) ‘freedom-fighters’ didn’t already slip in “as orphans” via the open Southern border.

Soon they’ll play soccer with a few heads. If 9/11 didn’t wake the leftists up maybe this will.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:56 AM

*sigh*

I hate to say it, but its time to re-institute carpet bombing. The only way these savages will come to heel is if we destroy their will to oppose – and that won’t happen until we stop fighting a politically correct war.

Defenestratus on July 19, 2014 at 11:57 AM

Ah, yes, the kindly religion of peace. Ha…. more like the religion of pieces, body pieces, that is. How is it that American liberals support these monsters????

chai on July 19, 2014 at 11:57 AM

PC will kill all the perpetrators of it. Unfortunately it will kill us all too.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM

Least surprising headline today.
Prayers ascending.

22044 on July 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM

Soon they’ll play soccer with a few heads. If 9/11 didn’t wake the leftists up maybe this will.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:56 AM

All the the libtards need a good hashtag to fix it all.

#Stopusingourheadsassoccerballs

VegasRick on July 19, 2014 at 12:00 PM

This guy is at Camp David, a place he abhors, but it makes for good photo ops. Wait, he hates photo ops.

It’s confusing.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:52 AM

There are Marines stationed there. He can’t sleep well knowing there are Marines on the premises. He worries that one might remember his Oath and arrest him.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Iraqi Christians are legitimate refugees. Will Obama fly planes over to pick them up and bring them here?

Charlemagne on July 19, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Iraqi Christians are legitimate refugees. Will Obama fly planes over to pick them up and bring them here?

Charlemagne on July 19, 2014 at 12:01 PM

He would if someone could convince him they will all vote democrat.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 12:02 PM

The one silver lining is how so many of the muslims here in the US are standing up and saying that these things are NOT part of their religion………….Wait………What?

VegasRick on July 19, 2014 at 12:03 PM

…Mooch…#Bring Our Girls Home!

JugEarsButtHurt on July 19, 2014 at 12:06 PM

US “outraged by #ISIL announcement that Christians in Mosul must convert, pay tax, leave or face execution,” per @statedeptspox.

Strongly worded hashtag to follow.

RadClown on July 19, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Iraqi Christians are legitimate refugees. Will Obama fly planes over to pick them up and bring them here?

Charlemagne on July 19, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Yes, they are, and no, he won’t.

(I have a hunch your question is rhetorical, so apologies for answering it like a straight if that’s the case).

22044 on July 19, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Forcing Christians to provide birth control and abortions against their will is also a form of Jizya.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 11:34 AM

Good point.

wifarmboy on July 19, 2014 at 12:08 PM

Suggested #s:

#BadBadISIS

#IWagMyFingerAtYou

#ImReadingAboutThisAndImReallyMad

22044 on July 19, 2014 at 12:09 PM

The Bear is on a killing spree

faraway on July 19, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Lean Forward!

Makes it easier to chop your head off.

Bishop on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 PM

Boehner: crickets

Impeach Boehner

faraway on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 PM

I hope someone in this administration knows a little bit about the Abbasid Caliphate in the eighth century. ISIS is following the exact same tactics as the Tazi did in their conquests of Central Asia(parts of China)even down to wearing black clothes when going into combat.

celtic warrior on July 19, 2014 at 12:14 PM

Obama to make a statement asking those Christians to stop clinging to their religion.

Zuwie on July 19, 2014 at 12:15 PM

I hope someone in this administration knows a little bit about the Abbasid Caliphate in the eighth century. ISIS is following the exact same tactics as the Tazi did in their conquests of Central Asia(parts of China)even down to wearing black clothes when going into combat.

celtic warrior on July 19, 2014 at 12:14 PM

You’re kidding right?

VegasRick on July 19, 2014 at 12:17 PM

The only surprising thing about this is that anyone would be surprised by it. Pay the tax, convert, be exiled or die. It’s right there in their book.

People who actually live by principles and personal integrity understand this. Those who live by sloganing and hyperbole assume that everyone else is just as morally relativist and vacuuous as they.

This goes back to the old question – how do you negotiate with someone who only wants you to suffer or die, when their only negotiation is how much suffering or the manner of death?

deepdiver on July 19, 2014 at 12:19 PM

I hope someone in this administration knows a little bit about the Abbasid Caliphate in the eighth century. ISIS is following the exact same tactics as the Tazi did in their conquests of Central Asia(parts of China)even down to wearing black clothes when going into combat.

celtic warrior on July 19, 2014 at 12:14 PM

They’re still in the 8th century.

In Afghanistan they’d moved to the 11th, but are going back again, as soon as their DC bro retreats.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:23 PM

That’s because Islam is so persuasive that it never requires force.

John the Libertarian on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Question asked:

Ah, yes, the kindly religion of peace. Ha…. more like the religion of pieces, body pieces, that is. How is it that American liberals support these monsters????

chai on July 19, 2014 at 11:57 AM

…aaaaand answered, immediately following:

PC will kill all the perpetrators of it. Unfortunately it will kill us all too.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM

I might also add that in the minds of American liberals, as long as Islamists keep killing just the Christians and observant Jews, they are doing the liberals a favor, because those are the two groups standing in the way of liberal Utopia on earth.

theotherone on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM

And the little dictator parties on.
rplat on July 19, 2014 at 11:42 AM
Calling Obama a dictator is a insult to dictators….

sorrowen on July 19, 2014 at 12:30 PM

The only surprising thing about this is that anyone would be surprised by it. Pay the tax, convert, be exiled or die. It’s right there in their book.

People who actually live by principles and personal integrity understand this. Those who live by sloganing and hyperbole assume that everyone else is just as morally relativist and vacuuous as they.

This goes back to the old question – how do you negotiate with someone who only wants you to suffer or die, when their only negotiation is how much suffering or the manner of death?

deepdiver on July 19, 2014 at 12:19 PM

.
Thank you, deepdiver.
.
I keep ‘wearing-out’ this link, but here it is again.
.
This video was produced by ISIS as a “recruiting promotional”, for their operations in Iraq.

The usual ‘WARNING’ about “up-close and personal” bloodshed, apply.

listens2glenn on July 19, 2014 at 12:31 PM

Next, they’ll be demanding that female sheep and goats be diapered so as to prevent the faithful from being tempted.

Hey, it’s happened more than once in Iraq.

Conservative Mischief on July 19, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Seems like I saw an article last week where these barbarians already smashed Jonah’s tomb to pieces.

stout77 on July 19, 2014 at 11:39 AM

And 18 out of 12 apostles are buried in Spain. Most of these tombs and burial places of supposed apostles and prophets of the Bible are fake. That said, what these Muslims are doing* is reprehensible.

*Being true to their book by the way! I never will buy the “Islam is a religion of piece” garbage that people spout. It’s the peaceful ones who act peacefully in spite of their religion, unlike Christianity.

Othniel on July 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM

Mount up, Knights of St John. Time to slaughter the infidels of Satan.

Jaibones on July 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM

And, Obama believes that you can “negotiate” with these Barbarians.

kingsjester on July 19, 2014 at 12:40 PM

I might also add that in the minds of American liberals leftist thugs, as long as Islamists keep killing just the Christians and observant Jews, they are doing the liberals leftist thugs a favor, because those are the two groups standing in the way of liberal leftist Utopia on earth.

theotherone on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Leftists are never liberal or progressive. They are always leftist thugs.

We are the classical liberals. Don’t let them steal the term.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:40 PM

What difference, at this point, does it make?

Besides…there’s burgers to eat; tee times to make; fund raisers to lead…this presidentin’ ain’t easy, bro’….

bimmcorp on July 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Islam is the world’s biggest Death Cult.

Nothing is surprising once you recognize that fundamental fact.

The fruits of such movements are always poisonous
.

profitsbeard on July 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Thank goodness we’re not calling them Al Qaeda. How embarrassing!

rogerb on July 19, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:40 PM

I stand corrected, Schad. Usually I do refer to them as leftists. I should continue to do that.

theotherone on July 19, 2014 at 12:49 PM

am I remembering wrong or wasn’t the author here saying, about 2 weeks ago, isis cannot (I am paraphrasing) sustain themselves or carry on for long and will be defeated?
if I am I apologize.
I’ve said all along they are a huge threat and should not be taken as impotent as some are.

dmacleo on July 19, 2014 at 12:49 PM

They just want to kill everybody in sight even other Muslims.

sorrowen on July 19, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Wild ones

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:54 PM

This video was produced by ISIS as a “recruiting promotional”, for their operations in Iraq.

The usual ‘WARNING’ about “up-close and personal” bloodshed, apply.

listens2glenn on July 19, 2014 at 12:31 PM

let me know if that vid gives issues, was planning on doing some server work today to better utilize resources but I can wait.

dmacleo on July 19, 2014 at 12:55 PM

kcewa on July 19, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Friday night junk news release

Kerry didn’t get very far with the Iranians threatening that if he doesn’t agree with them they’ll remove the US dollar as the oil currency.

obama is a malicious idiot.

Truth

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:56 PM

That’s because Islam is so persuasive that it never requires force.

John the Libertarian on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Plus they have such beautiful music according to Obama, the “non-Muslim.”

rlwo2008 on July 19, 2014 at 12:57 PM

My hunch is Obama is living in the 8th century too.

steveracer on July 19, 2014 at 12:57 PM

The only surprising thing about this is that anyone would be surprised by it. Pay the tax, convert, be exiled or die. It’s right there in their book.

deepdiver on July 19, 2014 at 12:19 PM

Yep, it’s all right there in the Book of Peace.

HiJack on July 19, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Good thing the Christians don’t have any nasty, evil guns. All they need is a few solid hashtags.

/leftist logic

mankai on July 19, 2014 at 1:06 PM

I wonder what those Christians did to upset those peaceful Muslims?

/leftist logic

mankai on July 19, 2014 at 1:07 PM

And atheists say Christians are intolerant…

sorrowen on July 19, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Why aren’t lefties talking about these actual homophobes?? They kill homosexuals but gays over here seem keen on trying to acceptance through the Judical system.

sorrowen on July 19, 2014 at 1:11 PM

Islam is the world’s biggest Death Cult.

Nothing is surprising once you recognize that fundamental fact.

The fruits of such movements are always poisonous.

profitsbeard on July 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM

That there are a billion muslims in the world is evidence that the human race’s continued survival is not assured.

ConstantineXI on July 19, 2014 at 1:12 PM

Richard Dawkins says that religion should be mocked openly and often. I encourage him to do so… Starting in Tikrit.

mankai on July 19, 2014 at 1:13 PM

I think Richard Dawkins should be mocked openly and often…

sorrowen on July 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM

Show me a moderate, peaceful Muslim, and I will show you Taqiyya personified.

As I have called for since 9/11/01, we need to rid the world of these vermin maggots. Young, old, and in between…makes no difference. The goal of Islam is total world domination, and they will stop at absolutely nothing in pursuit of this.

Then again, I am simply a bigoted, hateful Islamaphobe, what the hell do I know?

bimmcorp on July 19, 2014 at 1:23 PM

NOAH ROTHMAN: Your third link (Christian persecution) is a duplicate of your second link. Please post the correct link to the Christian persecution as I’d like to read the details.

Perhaps this link is the one you were reading.

dominigan on July 19, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Hmmm, where is the outrage in the MSM about ISIS persecuting Christian’s???

Yet the MSM is in a lather about Israel protecting itself from Muslim invaders????

Don’t they know who the enemy is???

The Muslims will be the first one’s who would take CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC & FOX off the air……

And probably chop of the heads of a few anchors for good measure – who is the scum???

redguy on July 19, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Well, Bill Clinton sat still while the Catholic descendants of Portuguese spice traders were systematically slaughtered by Islamists on East Timor, so I don’t expect Obama to stick his neck out for mere Christians getting the same. The Aussies won’t save these poor souls being martyred this time.

Don L on July 19, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Islam©: Destroying civilizations since 610

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 1:46 PM

And atheists say Christians are intolerant…

sorrowen on July 19, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Exactly. Communists (including the ones here in the US) are incredibly intolerant. Orthodox Islam is incredibly intolerant.

Christians are amazingly tolerant. Islam kills gays. Christians just don’t want to bake them cakes for their wedding. And guess who gets the worst press about it? Christians. Go figure.

Theophile on July 19, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Of some note:

Obama’s goal of total tranquility will be complete when all these Christians get done in by these freedom loving islamic head chopping Obama Care workers.

All will belive as the king says. or else.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on July 19, 2014 at 1:49 PM

Old Moe married money, slept with 12 year olds, operated a death cult and still no one in power in the U.S.A. seems to knows the full evil of it all.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on July 19, 2014 at 1:51 PM

Pray.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

gocatholic on July 19, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Our ancestors knew how do deal with these Barbary Pirates.

Since then, our country’s been taken over by Socialists, Madison Avenue zombies (yuppies) and certain Christians with their version of WWJD Marxism.

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 2:08 PM

This major defeat for pro-Western forces in Iraq may not be the most grim news coming out of the country in recent days.

There are “pro-Western forces” involved?

DarkCurrent on July 19, 2014 at 2:21 PM

This is Islam at work folks…Not radical Islam, just Islam..their false prophet would be very happy at this development..It’s a real shame that our government has turned it’s back on the Christians in Iraq..this includes the time with Bush..a travesty..must keep them in our prayers against the evil that is taking over their country

sadsushi on July 19, 2014 at 2:30 PM

I hope someone in this administration knows a little bit about the Abbasid Caliphate in the eighth century. ISIS is following the exact same tactics as the Tazi did in their conquests of Central Asia(parts of China)even down to wearing black clothes when going into combat.

celtic warrior on July 19, 2014 at 12:14 PM

You’re kidding right?

VegasRick on July 19, 2014 at 12:17 PM

Heh. They can’t even get the protocols of how to interact with various heads of state correct.

Corpseman.

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 2:40 PM

This is Islam at work folks…Not radical Islam, just Islam..their false prophet would be very happy at this development..It’s a real shame that our government has turned it’s back on the Christians in Iraq..this includes the time with Bush..a travesty..must keep them in our prayers against the evil that is taking over their country

sadsushi on July 19, 2014 at 2:30 PM

I was channel-hopping and landed on Dr. Phil who had a muzzie female claim that 99.9% of muzzies weren’t like that. She doesn’t know the koran.

I continued with my channel-hopping when phil started the “can’t we just all get along” nonsense.

Don’t these nitwits know who the aggressor is?

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 2:45 PM

And you all thought the Crusades were over five centuries ago.

Silly Christians.

But, history is boring, times change and we have to move on with our lives…Progress and such.

LMAO

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 3:07 PM

It’s time for Christians to flee the Middle East. The Christian nations of the world (what is left of them) should do everything they can to help facilitate their departure before judgment falls upon that God forsaken part of the world.

iceman1960 on July 19, 2014 at 3:10 PM

gocatholic on July 19, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Why do I need her to pray when Jesus lives to pray for us?

Now many have become Levitical priests, since they are prevented by death from remaining in office. But because He remains forever, He holds His priesthood permanently. Therefore, He is always able to save completely those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.

For this is the kind of high priest we need: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. Hebrews 7

Ironic, too, in an organization that will not ordain women, they entreat a woman to pray for them.

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens — Jesus the Son of God — let us hold fast to the confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tested in every way as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us at the proper time.

Hebrews 4

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Tell me more about the religion of peace, liberals.

TarasBulbous on July 19, 2014 at 3:16 PM

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Intercession is not part of my religious upbringing, either, but I see no harm in it. People of all Christian sects often ask others to pray for them, so why not Mary or someone else who is in Heaven?

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM

The only surprising thing about this is that anyone would be surprised by it. Pay the tax, convert, be exiled or die. It’s right there in their book.

People who actually live by principles and personal integrity understand this. Those who live by sloganing and hyperbole assume that everyone else is just as morally relativist and vacuuous as they.

This goes back to the old question – how do you negotiate with someone who only wants you to suffer or die, when their only negotiation is how much suffering or the manner of death?

deepdiver on July 19, 2014 at 12:19 PM
.

Thank you, deepdiver.

I keep ‘wearing-out’ this link, but here it is again.

This video was produced by ISIS as a “recruiting promotional”, for their operations in Iraq.

The usual ‘WARNING’ about “up-close and personal” bloodshed, apply.

listens2glenn on July 19, 2014 at 12:31 PM

.
let me know if that vid gives issues, was planning on doing some server work today to better utilize resources but I can wait.

dmacleo on July 19, 2014 at 12:55 PM

.
That’s your website ? … I believe it was davidk that posted this link some weeks ago, but if he gave you credit for it, I missed it.

listens2glenn on July 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Intercession is not part of my religious upbringing, either, but I see no harm in it. People of all Christian sects often ask others to pray for them, so why not Mary or someone else who is in Heaven?

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM

“When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not imitate the detestable customs of those nations. No one among you is to make his son or daughter pass through the fire, practice divination, tell fortunes, interpret omens, practice sorcery, cast spells, consult a medium or a familiar spirit, or inquire of the dead. Everyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and the LORD your God is driving out the nations before you because of these detestable things. Deuteronomy 18

“Do not turn to mediums, or consult spirits of the dead, or you will be defiled by them; I am Yahweh your God. Leviticus 19

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

I was channel-hopping and landed on Dr. Phil who had a muzzie female claim that 99.9% of muzzies weren’t like that. She doesn’t know the koran.

I continued with my channel-hopping when phil started the “can’t we just all get along” nonsense.

Don’t these nitwits know who the aggressor is?

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Yeah he’s clueless it sounds..all we have to do is look at the life of the false prophet Muhammad..look at how many hundreds of thousands of lives her was personally responsible for killing..probably much more than that..His followers are supposed to be like him right? Well there ya go..explains Islam real easily..The moderate ones choose to ignore the violent verses that they are suppose to follow

sadsushi on July 19, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Intercession is not part of my religious upbringing, either, but I see no harm in it. People of all Christian sects often ask others to pray for them, so why not Mary or someone else who is in Heaven?

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM

I pushed a key and the comment loaded before I was finished. I was going to cite other verses, but that shouldn’t be necessary.

Nowhere in the Bible are we encouraged to ask the dead to pray/intercede for us. Jesus is our High Priest and our Advocate. We have no need for a dead person to pray for us.

Jesus is God so the argument that the saved dead are closer to God is not convincing.

The Roman Catholic notion of awarding sainthood to individuals who meet certain standards is un-Biblical, also. The Bible teaches that all Christians are saints not a select few. Entreating Peter or Paul would not be any more efficacious than asking Uncle Joe to intercede for us.

And since Jesus is our High Priest, we do not need a man to forgive us of our sins.

That we ask our living Christian friends to pray for us as an argument to support entreating dead people is unconvincing in light of what I have said. We are not given any indication that the dead can hear us anyway.

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 4:08 PM

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Oh, so praying to Mary or anyone else who has died is akin to holding a seance…?

Pretty sure they were talking about the idea of spirits still walking about down here and/or demons. Also, I believe the Bible is talking about communicating with the spirits of those who were not believers and as such could not be in Heaven. Surely Mary is in Heaven.

I think what I gather as your interpretation is on rather dangerous ground-you seem to imply that those who communicate with any spirits (including God, Jesus, the Prophets and the angels) is doing something evil.

Also, what is to keep a demon from answering your prayers while you otherwise believe you are communicating with the Lord?

I think the sticking point is Mary’s relationship to God. Some seem to want her to be higher up, and others further down.

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 4:13 PM

The moderate ones choose to ignore the violent verses that they are suppose to follow

sadsushi on July 19, 2014 at 3:52 PM

What amazes me, too, is black people who convert to islam because they don’t want to serve the “white-man’s God.”

There are so many arguments to be leveled at that, but it was the muslims (along with black Africans) who captured and sold slaves to the slave ships headed to England and America.

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 4:14 PM

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Amen.
And when my Catholic friends ask me to pray to the saints for them, I tell them I have a direct line to God, why go through a third party? Confuses them every single time.

leftamark on July 19, 2014 at 4:18 PM

I think the sticking point is Mary’s relationship to God. Some seem to want her to be higher up, and others further down.

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 19, 2014 at 4:13 PM

I don’t know what you mean by “further up/further down.” It is not only Mary which Roman Catholics ask intercession on their behalf. They entreat various dead people to whom the Catholic hierarchy has given sainthood.

The Bible is clear that all people are equal: bond servant/bond holder; Jew/gentile; male/female.

Mary is no higher and no lower than Peter, Paul, and Mary, or Uncle Joe.

God is omnipresent; no need to use a medium.

davidk on July 19, 2014 at 4:25 PM

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