Quotes of the day

posted at 8:21 pm on July 18, 2014 by Allahpundit

The downing of a Malaysian commercial airliner flying at 33,000 feet over Ukraine could dramatically broaden the Ukrainian crisis, even before it is determined who bears responsibility…

“This is a new element that nobody expected,” James F. Collins, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia who now works at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said of the plane’s downing. “It’s one of those events . . . that can have unpredicted negative or positive consequences.”

On the negative side, it marks a clear escalation of both firepower and the willingness to use it that could draw the patrons of both sides into more overt participation on the ground and more direct confrontation with each other…

But Collins and others suggested that the shocking nature of the incident could also be a wake-up call to all involved. “It may bring certain people to decide that some different approach is needed because this is really getting out of hand,” Collins said. “All of a sudden, it could mean a lot more people talking about [the Ukraine situation] and saying enough is enough.”

***

A short video posted to YouTube by the Ukrainian government reportedly shows a “Buk,” or SA-11 “Gadfly,” surface-to-air missile system en route from eastern Ukraine to the Russian border on Friday.

While the video cannot be independently verified, the footage appears to show the system with at least one of its missiles missing. It also appears to be mounted on a tracked chassis, although it has been loaded onto a flatbed trailer. Tracked vehicles are decidedly slower than their wheeled counterparts. The use of the truck could indicate the system’s own propulsion system is disabled, or that speed is a priority for whomever is moving it.

U.S. officials asserted Friday that the Malaysian airliner that crashed in Ukraine was likely downed by an SA-11 operated from a separatist-held location.

***

The United States has gathered a significant body of evidence that Ukrainian separatists have been trained on Russian territory in recent weeks to fire antiaircraft missiles, according to American military and intelligence officials who have raised alarms over the reports.

Among other weapons, U.S. officials said, the separatists have been trained in using mobile antiaircraft batteries — missile systems that could be moved around on vehicles and are thought to have been used in the downing of a Malaysia Airlines jet Thursday…

Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said defense officials could not point to specific evidence that an SA-11 surface-to-air missile system had been transported from Russia into eastern Ukraine. But he said it was clear the rebels had wanted to add such a weapon to their arsenal.

***

McCain said he sees “no separation” between Putin and the Ukrainian rebels, calling that movement “clearly orchestrated” by Moscow…

Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois said he believes operating the missile system “would need backup from a nation-state like Russia.”

“That would mean that Russian armed forces are directly involved in this wrongful death of roughly 300 people,” Kirk asserted…

“If you’re a world power and you give this type of sophisticated weaponry to insurrectionists, you’re responsible for what happens after that,” King said. “This violates to me all norms of international behavior by a world power.”

***

Europe and even America never cared that much about Crimea. It is difficult to dislodge an annexation when a majority of the population likely really did support it. And the Europeans, as long as the big red lines weren’t being crossed, are too tied to Russian fuels and their myriad other concerns to care that much about mischief on Ukraine’s eastern border. But having a passenger plane, filled with EU citizens, shot out of the sky above what is presumed to be the bubble of first world safety that is “Europe” is a game changing event not only in the Ukraine crisis but much more broadly about Putin’s role in Europe generally.

In a paradoxical way, I think the future ramifications of this are almost greater because it is about Russia’s recklessness and bumbling than it would be if it were more clearly a matter of intent. This is a f’-up on Putin’s part of almost mind-boggling proportions. Yes, a tragedy. Yes, perhaps an atrocity. But almost more threatening, a screw up. Malign intent is one thing. So is aggression. But goofs of this magnitude by someone who controls a massive military arsenal and nuclear weapons are in a way more threatening.

***

Pavlovsky was especially concerned about one of the pro-Russian military leaders in eastern Ukraine, a former (and possibly current) Russian intelligence officer known to most by his nom de guerre, Igor Strelkov. (Strelkov’s real name is Igor Girkin.)

A wildly messianic nationalist who cultivates an air of lumpy intrigue, Strelkov has found his way to the battlefields of Chechnya, Serbia, and Transnistria. He is now helping to run the separatist operation in Donetsk. Like the radical nationalists and neo-imperialists in Moscow, who have easy access to the airwaves these days, Strelkov has a singular point of disagreement with Putin: the Russian President hasn’t gone nearly far enough; he has failed to invade and annex “Novorossiya,” the separatist term for eastern Ukraine. Pavlovsky said that people like Strelkov and his Moscow allies are as delusional as they are dangerous, somehow believing that they are taking part in grand historical dramas, like the Battle of Borodino, in 1812, or “the novels of Tolkien.”…

If it turns out that men like Strelkov and his fellow soldier-fantasists were responsible for the destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and all the people on board, the fever in Russia and Ukraine may intensify beyond anything that Vladimir Putin could have predicted or desired. It is long past time that Putin ended both the inflammatory information war in Russia and the military proxy war in eastern Ukraine that he has done so much to conceive, fund, organize, and fuel. There are hundreds of corpses strewn across a field today in eastern Ukraine. What is Vladimir Putin’s next move?

***

Ukraine’s very future may be riding on the results of whatever credible inquiry emerges, as its economic and territorial survival depends on the international support. Ukraine is not winning this war on its own, and Kyiv’s political class knows it. They need to plug that hole on Russia-Ukraine border, which Moscow is reportedly using to support the rebels. Without Western financial, logistical and military assistance, Ukraine’s hapless and battered government can’t do it. And the West is reluctant to deliver…

Andriy Shevchenko, a prominent pro-European member of the parliament, partially blames the international community for the airplane disaster. “The rebels turned Eastern Ukraine into a tribal land with no rules, no laws or dignity,” he told me. “This is just a huge, dark hole right in the center of Europe. We need to shut it down.”

On Friday, Putin called again for peace talks—but nobody in Kyiv is listening at the moment. The Ukrainian public and its leaders insist they will go all the way to defeat the rebels. “It is time to put an end to this aggression, and the world should join us in the eliminating of terrorists. It doesn’t matter where they are,” Oleksandr Tyrchynov, the speaker of parliament said in a public statement, most likely hinting at a possible military campaign along the Russian border.

***

Suddenly, NATO’s role in Europe has regained relevance. Unfortunately, NATO lacks the credibility to match. The United States no longer maintains even a single tank in Europe. The European countries have allowed their defense capabilities to wither altogether. If the budget sequester remains in force, the U.S. Army’s combat capabilities will be cut in half by decade’s end. Even if NATO decided that Russia’s latest actions release the West from the 1990s ban on permanent deployments in eastern Europe, what troops could it send?

We shouldn’t give up the hope that Putin will prove only an ugly detour on Russia’s route to a future as a normal, peaceful European democracy. But we shouldn’t any longer rely on that hope to guide our policy. Russia has become dangerous again. It’s not as dangerous as it was, but it’s more than dangerous enough. Nearly 300 bereaved families in the Netherlands, Britain, Canada, and elsewhere have suffered what hundreds of Ukrainians have suffered since Russian sharpshooters opened fire on peacefully protesting crowds in Kyiv last winter.

And we are all more vulnerable to that danger because we have let atrophy the institutions necessary to meet and contain that danger. It’s time—past time—to build those institutions back. That’s been the meaning of the Ukraine crisis from the start. The terrible heartbreak of MH17 might have been averted if we had absorbed that meaning early. But better to absorb it now than to leave it any longer.

***

{T]hus far, the West has been reluctant to strike the cancer at its source. France is on schedule to deliver two Mistral amphibious assault ships to Russia, having signed a contract for the vessels after Moscow invaded and occupied another neighbor, Georgia, in 2008. This week, it was reported that Italy, which currently occupies the EU presidency, was attempting to water down a further round of sanctions. And on Sunday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel— considered one of the continent’s toughest leaders when it comes to dealing with Russia—could be seen chatting next to Putin at the World Cup in Rio de Janeiro…

It is long past time that the United States and its NATO allies supply the Ukrainian military with the lethal aid it has long requested, so that it can at least defend itself and its airspace from Russia. NATO should deploy more troops to Poland and the Baltic states, which are understandably nervous about Russian designs on their territory and quietly doubt the Alliance’s Article 5 commitment stipulating that an attack on one is an attack on all. Sectoral sanctions that could cripple the Russian economy are also long overdue. And, if Russian involvement in this attack is conclusively demonstrated, Russia should be added to the State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism.

***

Putin will almost certainly have to back away from the insurgency. And mere rhetoric will not be enough. He will actually need to take concrete steps to close the borders and stop the supply of weapons if he is to convince the West that he is serious about distancing himself from the men who brought down MH17. In these circumstances, re-energized government forces will probably be able to win the war militarily, and sooner than would otherwise be the case.

If the war ends sooner, however, it may also be bloodier. The rebels will have their backs to the wall, especially because most of them will probably have no option to retreat into Russia or receive asylum. Kiev may also feel more able to resort to the kind of artillery and airstrikes that won the battle for Slavyansk, regardless of the inevitable civilian casualties, when they move against the remaining strongholds of Luhansk and Donetsk.

Either way, it doesn’t look good for Moscow. Putin has increasingly framed himself as the guardian of Russians around the world and the master of post-Soviet Eurasia. No matter how the state-controlled media spin it, a reversal in eastern Ukraine will undermine him both at home and in Russia’s neighbors. The tragedy of Flight MH17 has reshaped the political context of the Ukrainian conflict. It also represents an unexpected and unwelcome challenge to Putin himself.

***

Until now, the desire of some members of the Obama administration for more aggressive multilateral action against Putin has been stymied by the reluctance of European governments, particularly Germany, to antagonize Russia. Business interests in the U.S. have also claimed that American companies could be hurt if they lose access to the Russian market. In the aftermath of the Malaysia Airlines disaster, which almost certainly claimed dozens of American and European lives, such voices will be drowned out by demands from the public that Russia be punished for supplying the weapons that may have brought the airliner down.
Story: Russian Media Goes Far Out to Explain Malaysia Airlines Disaster

To the vast majority of Americans, Russia’s meddling in Ukraine has largely seemed of peripheral importance to U.S. interests. That calculus has changed. As we have argued before, Putin has far more to lose from a prolonged confrontation than does the West. His finance ministry has already warned that additional sanctions would crush economic growth. And as more Russian businesses get squeezed and living standards deteriorate, Putin’s base of political support will crumble.

It may take months, even years, but Putin’s recklessness is bound to catch up to him. When it does, the downing of MH 17 may be seen as the beginning of his undoing.

***

Andropov didn’t have to live with opprobrium for long: he passed away less than six months after the KAL 007 disaster. Putin, however, is a relatively young, healthy man, and he will continue to occupy the world stage as Russia’s supreme ruler. But he will never again be able to portray himself as a savvy, cool broker in international affairs, nor Russia as just another great power. Now, he’s just another Soviet-era thug, a perception that was already growing before the Malaysian airliner plunged out of the sky. No matter how the current crisis ends, Putin’s name will forever be tied to this outrage, and his personal bid to create a more respected Russia through violence and intimidation is permanently defunct.

In the short term, the international community may not manage to muster sanctions against Russia that are any more effective than those imposed on the old USSR. But over the longer term, Putin has done far worse to his own country than any punishment we can levy. He has returned Russia to its cursed role as an international pariah, a country incapable of conducting itself without brutality and conquest. Putin’s Kremlin will likely pay only a modest price for now, but Russia and its people will have to bear the brunt of an increasing and corrosive isolation thrust upon them by their leader and his outdated Soviet fears and insecurities. If the Russian people one day find that NATO has renewed its purpose and that the globalized world community has moved on without them, they will have only Vladimir Putin to blame.


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Obama Forces Religious Groups To Pick Faith Or Funding

VorDaj on July 18, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Next fatwa from valery :
All idols + images of any God need to go from all places of kafir’s worship , to be replaced with idols of Hussein and the Mooch.
Or else ? Jiziah

burrata on July 19, 2014 at 12:02 AM

gh on July 18, 2014 at 11:57 PM

Time for bed.
crankyoldlady on July 18, 2014 at 11:59 PM

Niters and sleep well, GH and COL!

Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:02 AM

The new music source is very good.

Judges rogue in Oklahoma.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:04 AM

G’night Doc, COL & GH…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 12:05 AM

please sleep well…. street light n all..
and be safe….cheers COL..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:05 AM

Obama Forces Religious Groups To Pick Faith Or Funding

VorDaj on July 18, 2014 at 11:28 PM

One very dangerous aspect in the USA is that the leftist (incl. the DIABLOs) gov’t is in full alignment with the churches, and vice versa, at the expense of the laws and the pockets’ of the taxpayers.

This includes the pope getting involved in what is none of his business.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:06 AM

difficult at best.. lucky you.. I have better luck with the 10×15 binoculars.. than my telescope.. and the tracking web page helps..some going2mars on July 18, 2014 at 11:52 PM

I have a 20×50 that works really well. But it freaks the nieghbors out because it’s mounted on top of a .270 Winchester.

But I love it. I could stare at the moon all night. Watch the shadows roll by. It’s all about the edge.

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:06 AM

Patsy Cline – Walkin’ After Midnight

And on that note, I bid Friends and Lurkers niters and sleep well!

Those with bar keys, y’all know what to do… ;-)

Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 AM

Time for bed. crankyoldlady on July 18, 2014 at 11:59 PM

You cranky trailer chicks are the best sort.

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 AM

Watching the edge,. What’s it called again?

The line on the moon between light and dark.

I really want to build a scope. Or buy one.

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:16 AM

Good one

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:16 AM

Summertime – Bechet

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:16 AM

Royal Garden Blues – Bix Beiderbecke

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:21 AM

Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:00 AM

my family, like many, immigrated legally almost 100 years ago..
on the boat ride from England they lost lil two boys..
but my great grandfather/wife and two girls made it..
one was my grandmother..
after arrival in NYC the man told them.
“we have enough drunkin irish micks here already”
and sent them to Canada for 3 more years..
so I don’t blame anyone who tries to get here…
but
we have laws… and immigration counts.. for every country..
to insure we are not being overrun …
you could get 100 million Chinese here in a month or two
with open borders carte blanch..
the Congo would empty … as soon as they could build a boat..
to make sure we can afford and feed and care for..
to make sure its done in some responsible way..
no country can survive a no rules open border lifestyle..
so it is not my point to insult…
respect for Laws and Sovereignty would be more my point..

now if it were a anti Barry or prog government protests..
bring on the insults…heavy..!!!

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM

Sidney Bechet – Petite Fleur

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:25 AM

Salome – Max Raabe

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:25 AM

This includes the pope getting involved in what is none of his business.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:06 AM

Yet he holds on to the billions the Vatican has in accounts and vaults , while lecturing us about poverty and income inequality.
Just like Pelosi and Zuckerberg and others like them. They want illegals infesting our land but they won’t spend one single penny of their own to feed clothe and house them .
These diseased parasites will infest public schools, not schools which their kids attend.

burrata on July 19, 2014 at 12:26 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:25 AM

Good evening, Paladin.:) Wonderful to see you, as always.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:27 AM

I really want to build a scope. Or buy one.

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:16 AM

some good info here..

http://www.telescope.com/home.jsp

http://www.celestron.com/

http://www.astronomy.com/

watch craigs list…sometimes you can get a good one there..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:27 AM

You too J. – how was Tulsa? Greta featured many locations today and advertised for tomorrow.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 AM

Hey G2M,, this is what I want to buy or build…

http://telescopes.net/store/09709-orion-skyquest-xt12-classic-dobsonian-telescope.html.

You think it’s worth the money?

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 AM

Does anyone think that the obamas will cancel the Martha’s Vineyard vacation, having gone to Camp David (which they despise)?

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:30 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 AM

Tulsa is going to be tomorrow 11:00AM- 4:00 PM. From what I’m hearing from my neighbors it should be a good sized rally.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:31 AM

And on that note, I bid Friends and Lurkers niters and sleep well!
Those with bar keys, y’all know what to do… ;-)
Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 AM

missed it by that much….darn slow fingers..
night NatB…please sleep well…cheers..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:31 AM

Does anyone think that the obamas will cancel the Martha’s Vineyard vacation, having gone to Camp David (which they despise)?

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:30 AM

They go to MV AFTER this vacation @ CD ?

burrata on July 19, 2014 at 12:32 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:30 AM

Not a chance.

Martha’s Vineyard has always been their August vacation, and unless there’s a very credible threat to security or a plague or something, I can’t see them skipping it for any reason.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:32 AM

Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:11 AM

Goodnight, Newtie.:) Sleep well.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:33 AM

Dream A Little Dream – Raabe

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:36 AM

I had a celestron once. It wasn’t much. .

I understand it’s a basic platform. And the eyepieces matter after the fact.

Good mirror.

I never asked you,,are you involved with the space program?

I miss you most nights because I’m not nocturnal. I get up at 4 am.

I totally digged the rovers, and have been fascinated since. Not to mention I live by the U of A.

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:39 AM

Salomé – Strauss

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM

You think it’s worth the money?

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:28 AM

that is a huge scope…
you will need to pour a pad to mount it I would think…
and maybe a small garden shed to house it…
you wont be putting it in the car and driving to flagstaff…
but
wow what views you would see…!!!!…
and the pictures you could take…specular I would think..

http://www.company7.com/orion/telescopes/orion12f4.9dobi.html

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:30 AM

To be honest, I’m worried about why they went to Camp David now, and just ahead of the Martha’s Vineyard annual vacation.

Ordinarily, when there’s a major vote looming, or things are going south somewhere in the world, we’re not surprised to see Obama climbing the steps of Air Force one to get out of Washington DC PDQ.

I note that he had to sit around twiddling his thumbs on the tarmac for 40 minutes due to a ‘suspicious package’ and the White House went into lock down.

Perhaps, with things breaking loose all over the world, and a ‘humanitarian crisis’ that’s out of control on the border, he didn’t have anywhere else to go to get out of town.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:31 AM

Looking forward to assessment (tomorrow night).

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:43 AM

I’ve got four coons in my front yard, looks to be a mother and her cubs. Sure wish I could use my gun in city limits, damnit…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 12:44 AM

I’ve got four coons in my front yard, looks to be a mother and her cubs. Sure wish I could use my gun in city limits, damnit…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 12:44 AM

Ignore. The little ones need their mom.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:45 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM

I found it curious also that they went there. They abhor the place.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:46 AM

I just lost internet connection, very briefly.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:47 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:46 AM

Indeed, and from what I understand, they didn’t take a lot of friends or relatives with them, either. The White House staff went well out of its way to say they’d been planning the trip for some time, yet it seems very spur of the moment compared to the other trips.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:49 AM

are you involved with the space program?
wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:39 AM

I have been a designer in aerospace for almost 30 years now.. maybe 5 or 6 in cars.

yes I have …several things floating above…
on a dozen or so platforms..
and some that made the MSL mars Curiosity rover..SASPaH
you can read about them here..

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/blogs/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowBlogs&BlogsID=266

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:49 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:43 AM

lol! I’ll do my best. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:50 AM

Sodade – Evora

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:51 AM

Scumhag of them all…she lives off of big business.

How stupid are the leftists and the DIABLOs really?

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:53 AM

12″ inch dob is a good scope for deep space.

Largest ap scope I ever got to operate was a 60-some incher at Mt. Lemon. Fricking awesome.

DisneyFan on July 19, 2014 at 12:54 AM

Time To Quit – Tinsley Ellis

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:56 AM

Maybe the oaf fancies himself “Reagan during a crisis”, when in reality they find the place cheap, too common and below their highnesses, not fancy enough for their egos.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:56 AM

that is a huge scope… you will need to pour a pad to mount it I would think… and maybe a small garden shed to house it… you wont be putting it in the car and driving to flagstaff… but wow what views you would see…!!!!… and the pictures you could take…specular I would think.. http://www.company7.com/orion/telescopes/ orion12f4.9dobi.html going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM

It just looks big. It’s a dobsonian. It only weights 30 lbs.

It’s a hollow tube with a mirror and and eyepiece..

I’ll brb…

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:57 AM

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 12:39 AM

I like this one for its portability..
like when I go rafting in the Rockies..
one of these…at Glacier Nat Park at 9000 feet…smiles..
they have newer one slightly larger with two arms..
only a lil more weight..

http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/astronomy/telescopes/nexstar-8se-computerized-telescope

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 12:58 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:56 AM

I don’t think so.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:58 AM

I don’t think so.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 12:58 AM

Not Reagan?

I know they abhor the place, for sure.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 1:03 AM

building my own would be cool.

They sell these concrete tubes at home depot.

wolly4321 on July 19, 2014 at 1:05 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 1:03 AM

No… he knows he’s not Reagan. And yes, they hate the place. 70 miles inland of DC, 125 forested acre very secured compound on a mountain top, under the jurisdiction of the Navy.

I just don’t think that’s why they went there two or three weeks ahead of the annual Martha’s Vineyard trip.

I think he needed to get out of town. It’s unusual they’d go to Camp David. He went 3 times in 2013, and one of those was for that conference with EU leaders.

I’d just like to know why they chose to go now.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 1:06 AM

I know they abhor the place, for sure.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 1:03 AM

Sometimes I wonder, why don’t they ever vacay in their house in Shi*cago ? The one Rezko bought for them and the Secret Service guards with taxpayer dollars ?

burrata on July 19, 2014 at 1:08 AM

Still Got The Blues – Moore

I bid you all a fond goodnight. It’s been a pleasure, as always.

Live in the moment.

“Keep yourselves where the light is.”

Goodnight, Paladin. :) Sleep well.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 1:09 AM

I’d just like to know why they chose to go now.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 1:06 AM

Officially, for appearances.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 1:09 AM

Nite J., you as well.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 1:10 AM

wow anyone watching Hannity??..
he has the gloves off tonight ….
SLAMMING barry hard…

cant believe this is the same guy…

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 1:10 AM

please sleep well ms J…. be safe…cheers..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 1:14 AM

Biggest choice you have to make when building your own dob is how hands on you want the experience (whether to do your own mirror grinding, build own components, etc.) It’s not really a money saver at the small end of the size scale., but it’s fun.

DisneyFan on July 19, 2014 at 1:15 AM

cant believe this is the same guy…

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 1:10 AM

Him and Ralphie need to sharpen their words a lil bit more :O
then the real fun will start !

burrata on July 19, 2014 at 1:15 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 1:10 AM

evening
did you go today to a protest?
or tomorrow perhaps??
how was it if you went today??

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 1:25 AM

Off to late night shopping run, be back soon

DisneyFan on July 19, 2014 at 1:33 AM

I’m not up on popular culture. It was recently that I learned that a bear is the nom de guerre for a rather large gay man.Mr. Obama has been making reference to the, ‘ the bear is loose’,I wonder if this is not a sub-conscious cry for Reggie Love to come back to the White House?

celtic warrior on July 19, 2014 at 1:40 AM

Representative Jim Bridenstine, 1st district – Tulsa: 2008 William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act does not apply to most juveniles arriving from Central America

The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act was intended to provide sanctuary and due process for undocumented, unaccompanied minors forced into servitude. The Obama administration has cited the law for housing more than 50,000 juveniles, primarily from Central America, who have arrived in the country over the past nine months.

Some of them are being processed through a facility at Fort Sill.

Bridenstine and others, including U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn, have said in recent days that the law should not apply to the vast majority of the new arrivals because they are not trafficking victims and are not, technically, unaccompanied.

“There is a question about what constitutes human trafficking,” Bridenstine said. “There is human trafficking, and there is human smuggling.”

Bridenstine said most of the newcomers are being smuggled, not trafficked, and have a relative or responsible party waiting to claim them as soon as they arrive. The fact the youths have an adult contact in the U.S. means they are not unaccompanied, he said.

He said the Obama administration could deport the minors almost immediately if it chooses. He said that would reinforce the message that efforts to enter the U.S. illegally are dangerous and are likely to be unsuccessful.

The entire article is illuminating.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:05 AM

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 12:30 AM

Dear Leader skip a vacation? After all the hard stuff he has to do?

If only Rs would do stuff too.

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:06 AM

He said the Obama administration could deport the minors almost immediately if it chooses.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:05 AM

And he chooses not to, of course. Ds want open borders. They aren’t even trying to hide it.

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:12 AM

He said the Obama administration could deport the minors almost immediately if it chooses.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:05 AM

And he chooses not to, of course. Ds want open borders. They aren’t even trying to hide it.

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:12 AM

That whole not choosing thing is becoming a serious pattern with the Obamanation Administration. Deputy Attorney General James Cole yesterday informed Congress that the Department of InJustice chose not to prosecute Lois Lerner for contempt of congress even though the law required the DOJ to do so.

oscarwilde on July 19, 2014 at 2:25 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:05 AM

the link says “Subscription Required”
so you have illuminated us as much as were gonna be…ty

are you going to T town tomorrow??
got your sign at the ready yet??
<<was working on mine,,,

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:27 AM

oscarwilde on July 19, 2014 at 2:25 AM

The corruption makes Nixon’s administration look like choir boys

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:30 AM

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:12 AM

I believe this entire ‘humanitarian crisis’ was orchestrated deliberately by the Obama administration in order to try and force a blanket amnesty for those illegal aliens already at large in this nation, and concurrently, to garner a massive expansion of legal immigration and H1B visa workers in the process.

I don’t believe that Obama cares about those Central American juveniles any more than he cares about juveniles dying in Chicago in dangerous neighborhoods or Detroit, or any other inner city area in this nation.

Whether any of the juveniles from Central America are allowed to remain will simply be viewed as a bonus in negotiation calculations as the LEFT goes about the business of trying to extort an Amnesty and increased legal immigration from congress.

This is why Americans have noted that there is a curious disconnect in the argument of the administration insisting that all illegal aliens currently at large in the nation should be legalized, yet simultaneously claiming that these juveniles from Central America must be returned to their nation of origin. In this argument, the administration itself has cast the Central American juveniles as somehow being a second class of illegal aliens, not worthy of their consideration for amnesty. This is America, and all are supposed to be equal before the law without prejudice or preference.

The only way the administration’s arguments make sense is if they are simply using these Central American juveniles as a bargaining chip to attain the blanket amnesty they want for the majority of the illegal aliens already at large in this nation, garnering increased legal immigration and, with that increase, an increase in H1B visa workers (legal cheap foreign labor).

The very continued presence of this surge of Central American juveniles, since the administration seems determined to do nothing to expedite their return to their nations of origin or secure the border in a way that prevents their arrival in this nation, is, in itself, an implicit threat to congress and the nation that if the wishes for ‘comprehensive immigration reform’ of the Obama administration are not met by congress forthwith, still more juveniles and other illegal aliens will be allowed to flood across our borders, overwhelm our immigration system and courts, and become a massive burden to the taxpayers and our communities as well as a threat to public health since many have been proven to carry contagion and parasites.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:36 AM

Still coasting on the porch but going to bed soon…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:38 AM

Rep. Bridenstine says 2008 law shouldn’t apply to most juveniles from Central America

Here’s the article:

Most of the juveniles arriving in the United States from Central America are not covered by the terms of a 2008 anti-human trafficking law, 1st District Congressman Jim Bridenstine said Friday.

The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act was intended to provide sanctuary and due process for undocumented, unaccompanied minors forced into servitude. The Obama administration has cited the law for housing more than 50,000 juveniles, primarily from Central America, who have arrived in the country over the past nine months.

Some of them are being processed through a facility at Fort Sill.

Bridenstine and others, including U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn, have said in recent days that the law should not apply to the vast majority of the new arrivals because they are not trafficking victims and are not, technically, unaccompanied.

“There is a question about what constitutes human trafficking,” Bridenstine said. “There is human trafficking, and there is human smuggling.”

Bridenstine said most of the newcomers are being smuggled, not trafficked, and have a relative or responsible party waiting to claim them as soon as they arrive. The fact the youths have an adult contact in the U.S. means they are not unaccompanied, he said.

He said the Obama administration could deport the minors almost immediately if it chooses. He said that would reinforce the message that efforts to enter the U.S. illegally are dangerous and are likely to be unsuccessful.

“People are going to say ‘He’s heartless’ and ‘He doesn’t care about the kids,’” said Bridenstine. “But I do care about them. I want them to understand that it is more dangerous to try to make the journey here than to stay in their home country.”

Bridenstine said one-quarter to one-third of the children who reach the U.S. have been seriously abused, and all must pass through territory controlled by ruthless crime syndicates.

More disturbing, Bridenstine said, are indications that an unknown number of the immigrants die or become ensnared in nefarious activities along the way.

Bridenstine said he believes the majority of the children arriving at border checkpoints have made the trip willingly for economic reasons, either to reunite with their families or to find jobs. He said he does not believe many are intended for things such as prostitution or forced labor or that they have to reach the U.S. because of pressure brought against their families in Central America.

That is consistent with testimony in a Wednesday U.S. Senate hearing and also fits the new narrative of those wanting quick deportation of the juveniles.

The Obama administration initially said it, too, wanted to expedite the processing of the immigrants but backed off under pressure from humanitarian organizations.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:41 AM

oscarwilde on July 19, 2014 at 2:25 AM

wow…if Nixon hears this kinda crap is going on up here..
he will roll over in his grave and
as the gate keeper (Heavens or H3lls depending on your Nixon viewpoint)
for a hall pass so he can return
and run for CIC again…

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:43 AM

oscarwilde on July 19, 2014 at 2:25 AM

It is a complete breakdown in the rule of law, Mr. Wilde. We have an administration that refuses to apply the law equitably and without preference or prejudice.

The administration governs by something very similar to the Leona Helmsley protocol: ‘Only the little people’ must obey or observe the law.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:45 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:27 AM

I will be in attendance, Mr. Mars.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:46 AM

The moon looks like an orange slice to me with the naked eye…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:46 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:36 AM

I agree with everything you said. This certainly is deliberate. Leftists use the law as an excuse. But they fail to explain why it has been in effect since 2008, and the border crisis only started recently.

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:47 AM

MG, is the best person, the best.

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:36 AM

wish I could fit that on my sign…

thank you also for posting the Tulsa paper bit..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:46 AM

The moon can be a beautiful site when seen at the right time.

cat_owner on July 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM

My little wood shop produces a lot of wood chips of different sizes and shapes. I’m sure there would be one that would suit your personalty. Perhaps one would make a nice give for your girl friend?

Free shipping if you buy two wood chips or more.

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:48 AM

lol! Good evening, my charming friend. :)

I don’t even get close to deserving your very kind and generous praise… but I do my best every day… and that has to count for something. ;)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:51 AM

I don’t even get close to deserving your very kind and generous praise… but I do my best every day… and that has to count for something. ;)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:51 AM

C’mon darlin’
You are way better than Spark Plug will ever be…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:53 AM

More disturbing, Bridenstine said, are indications that an unknown number of the immigrants die or become ensnared in nefarious activities along the way.

Yep. Being a criminal can be dangerous because another criminal might kill you.

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:53 AM

The moon looks like an orange slice to me with the naked eye…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:46 AM

grrrr…we have some clouds now..
but thanks for the reminder…
will try the roof in a few…

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:56 AM

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:53 AM

My dear and cruelly removed friend is always on my mind. You needn’t remind me.

However, my new Greek friend, Parmenides, is swiftly making a place in my heart, and old friends like you keep me company. It helps.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:57 AM

G’night all, going to bed…

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:57 AM

OmahaConservative on July 19, 2014 at 2:57 AM

Goodnight, Omaha.:) Sleep well.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 2:58 AM

Free shipping if you buy two wood chips or more.

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM

you know I am a wood chip maker from way back…
perhaps we could barter a few chips…
we have some really good hardwoods up here in the forest..
what ya got to trade??..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 2:59 AM

There have been incidents of children’s lifeless bodies washing up on the banks of the Rio Grande over the last several months. The Coyotes who brought them to the border force them to cross alone and some don’t survive the crossing.

I think the Obama administration has to bear the responsibility for this tragic loss of young life, since these children wouldn’t have been making the perilous journey had it not been for the hope of ‘permisos’ after hearing of the executive orders issued by Obama relating to DACA, and it has been the Obama administration that has gutted interior enforcement creating the belief among these children’s families that children and those accompanying them would not be turned back or returned to their nation of origin if they could make it here.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:02 AM

sleep well mr OC…clear sky’s.. cheers..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:03 AM

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM

Do you ever produce those long curls of shaved wood? I like those very much. They have so many uses. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:06 AM

Sleepy Lagoon – Harry James

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:09 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:03 AM

How has the real estate hunt been going, Mr. Mars? Any really good prospects lately?

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:10 AM

Stardust – Artie Shaw

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:12 AM

Back from shopping.

Hope night viewing is better for others tonight than it is here

DisneyFan on July 19, 2014 at 3:14 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:10 AM

smiles…at my budget or yours??…

yes I get updates daily… heres todays..

http://www.come2thequiet.com/listings/21A3604F-972B-37AE-068C2587AED553D9.shtml

ps…this one is more your budget…

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:14 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:14 AM

That property is so gorgeous, and just look at that sky. :)

House seems a trifle small for that kind of cash, but that 37 plus acres of paradise certainly makes up for it. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:16 AM

Moonglow – Artie Shaw

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:17 AM

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