Quotes of the day

posted at 8:21 pm on July 18, 2014 by Allahpundit

The downing of a Malaysian commercial airliner flying at 33,000 feet over Ukraine could dramatically broaden the Ukrainian crisis, even before it is determined who bears responsibility…

“This is a new element that nobody expected,” James F. Collins, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia who now works at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said of the plane’s downing. “It’s one of those events . . . that can have unpredicted negative or positive consequences.”

On the negative side, it marks a clear escalation of both firepower and the willingness to use it that could draw the patrons of both sides into more overt participation on the ground and more direct confrontation with each other…

But Collins and others suggested that the shocking nature of the incident could also be a wake-up call to all involved. “It may bring certain people to decide that some different approach is needed because this is really getting out of hand,” Collins said. “All of a sudden, it could mean a lot more people talking about [the Ukraine situation] and saying enough is enough.”


A short video posted to YouTube by the Ukrainian government reportedly shows a “Buk,” or SA-11 “Gadfly,” surface-to-air missile system en route from eastern Ukraine to the Russian border on Friday.

While the video cannot be independently verified, the footage appears to show the system with at least one of its missiles missing. It also appears to be mounted on a tracked chassis, although it has been loaded onto a flatbed trailer. Tracked vehicles are decidedly slower than their wheeled counterparts. The use of the truck could indicate the system’s own propulsion system is disabled, or that speed is a priority for whomever is moving it.

U.S. officials asserted Friday that the Malaysian airliner that crashed in Ukraine was likely downed by an SA-11 operated from a separatist-held location.


The United States has gathered a significant body of evidence that Ukrainian separatists have been trained on Russian territory in recent weeks to fire antiaircraft missiles, according to American military and intelligence officials who have raised alarms over the reports.

Among other weapons, U.S. officials said, the separatists have been trained in using mobile antiaircraft batteries — missile systems that could be moved around on vehicles and are thought to have been used in the downing of a Malaysia Airlines jet Thursday…

Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said defense officials could not point to specific evidence that an SA-11 surface-to-air missile system had been transported from Russia into eastern Ukraine. But he said it was clear the rebels had wanted to add such a weapon to their arsenal.


McCain said he sees “no separation” between Putin and the Ukrainian rebels, calling that movement “clearly orchestrated” by Moscow…

Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois said he believes operating the missile system “would need backup from a nation-state like Russia.”

“That would mean that Russian armed forces are directly involved in this wrongful death of roughly 300 people,” Kirk asserted…

“If you’re a world power and you give this type of sophisticated weaponry to insurrectionists, you’re responsible for what happens after that,” King said. “This violates to me all norms of international behavior by a world power.”


Europe and even America never cared that much about Crimea. It is difficult to dislodge an annexation when a majority of the population likely really did support it. And the Europeans, as long as the big red lines weren’t being crossed, are too tied to Russian fuels and their myriad other concerns to care that much about mischief on Ukraine’s eastern border. But having a passenger plane, filled with EU citizens, shot out of the sky above what is presumed to be the bubble of first world safety that is “Europe” is a game changing event not only in the Ukraine crisis but much more broadly about Putin’s role in Europe generally.

In a paradoxical way, I think the future ramifications of this are almost greater because it is about Russia’s recklessness and bumbling than it would be if it were more clearly a matter of intent. This is a f’-up on Putin’s part of almost mind-boggling proportions. Yes, a tragedy. Yes, perhaps an atrocity. But almost more threatening, a screw up. Malign intent is one thing. So is aggression. But goofs of this magnitude by someone who controls a massive military arsenal and nuclear weapons are in a way more threatening.


Pavlovsky was especially concerned about one of the pro-Russian military leaders in eastern Ukraine, a former (and possibly current) Russian intelligence officer known to most by his nom de guerre, Igor Strelkov. (Strelkov’s real name is Igor Girkin.)

A wildly messianic nationalist who cultivates an air of lumpy intrigue, Strelkov has found his way to the battlefields of Chechnya, Serbia, and Transnistria. He is now helping to run the separatist operation in Donetsk. Like the radical nationalists and neo-imperialists in Moscow, who have easy access to the airwaves these days, Strelkov has a singular point of disagreement with Putin: the Russian President hasn’t gone nearly far enough; he has failed to invade and annex “Novorossiya,” the separatist term for eastern Ukraine. Pavlovsky said that people like Strelkov and his Moscow allies are as delusional as they are dangerous, somehow believing that they are taking part in grand historical dramas, like the Battle of Borodino, in 1812, or “the novels of Tolkien.”…

If it turns out that men like Strelkov and his fellow soldier-fantasists were responsible for the destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and all the people on board, the fever in Russia and Ukraine may intensify beyond anything that Vladimir Putin could have predicted or desired. It is long past time that Putin ended both the inflammatory information war in Russia and the military proxy war in eastern Ukraine that he has done so much to conceive, fund, organize, and fuel. There are hundreds of corpses strewn across a field today in eastern Ukraine. What is Vladimir Putin’s next move?


Ukraine’s very future may be riding on the results of whatever credible inquiry emerges, as its economic and territorial survival depends on the international support. Ukraine is not winning this war on its own, and Kyiv’s political class knows it. They need to plug that hole on Russia-Ukraine border, which Moscow is reportedly using to support the rebels. Without Western financial, logistical and military assistance, Ukraine’s hapless and battered government can’t do it. And the West is reluctant to deliver…

Andriy Shevchenko, a prominent pro-European member of the parliament, partially blames the international community for the airplane disaster. “The rebels turned Eastern Ukraine into a tribal land with no rules, no laws or dignity,” he told me. “This is just a huge, dark hole right in the center of Europe. We need to shut it down.”

On Friday, Putin called again for peace talks—but nobody in Kyiv is listening at the moment. The Ukrainian public and its leaders insist they will go all the way to defeat the rebels. “It is time to put an end to this aggression, and the world should join us in the eliminating of terrorists. It doesn’t matter where they are,” Oleksandr Tyrchynov, the speaker of parliament said in a public statement, most likely hinting at a possible military campaign along the Russian border.


Suddenly, NATO’s role in Europe has regained relevance. Unfortunately, NATO lacks the credibility to match. The United States no longer maintains even a single tank in Europe. The European countries have allowed their defense capabilities to wither altogether. If the budget sequester remains in force, the U.S. Army’s combat capabilities will be cut in half by decade’s end. Even if NATO decided that Russia’s latest actions release the West from the 1990s ban on permanent deployments in eastern Europe, what troops could it send?

We shouldn’t give up the hope that Putin will prove only an ugly detour on Russia’s route to a future as a normal, peaceful European democracy. But we shouldn’t any longer rely on that hope to guide our policy. Russia has become dangerous again. It’s not as dangerous as it was, but it’s more than dangerous enough. Nearly 300 bereaved families in the Netherlands, Britain, Canada, and elsewhere have suffered what hundreds of Ukrainians have suffered since Russian sharpshooters opened fire on peacefully protesting crowds in Kyiv last winter.

And we are all more vulnerable to that danger because we have let atrophy the institutions necessary to meet and contain that danger. It’s time—past time—to build those institutions back. That’s been the meaning of the Ukraine crisis from the start. The terrible heartbreak of MH17 might have been averted if we had absorbed that meaning early. But better to absorb it now than to leave it any longer.


{T]hus far, the West has been reluctant to strike the cancer at its source. France is on schedule to deliver two Mistral amphibious assault ships to Russia, having signed a contract for the vessels after Moscow invaded and occupied another neighbor, Georgia, in 2008. This week, it was reported that Italy, which currently occupies the EU presidency, was attempting to water down a further round of sanctions. And on Sunday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel— considered one of the continent’s toughest leaders when it comes to dealing with Russia—could be seen chatting next to Putin at the World Cup in Rio de Janeiro…

It is long past time that the United States and its NATO allies supply the Ukrainian military with the lethal aid it has long requested, so that it can at least defend itself and its airspace from Russia. NATO should deploy more troops to Poland and the Baltic states, which are understandably nervous about Russian designs on their territory and quietly doubt the Alliance’s Article 5 commitment stipulating that an attack on one is an attack on all. Sectoral sanctions that could cripple the Russian economy are also long overdue. And, if Russian involvement in this attack is conclusively demonstrated, Russia should be added to the State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism.


Putin will almost certainly have to back away from the insurgency. And mere rhetoric will not be enough. He will actually need to take concrete steps to close the borders and stop the supply of weapons if he is to convince the West that he is serious about distancing himself from the men who brought down MH17. In these circumstances, re-energized government forces will probably be able to win the war militarily, and sooner than would otherwise be the case.

If the war ends sooner, however, it may also be bloodier. The rebels will have their backs to the wall, especially because most of them will probably have no option to retreat into Russia or receive asylum. Kiev may also feel more able to resort to the kind of artillery and airstrikes that won the battle for Slavyansk, regardless of the inevitable civilian casualties, when they move against the remaining strongholds of Luhansk and Donetsk.

Either way, it doesn’t look good for Moscow. Putin has increasingly framed himself as the guardian of Russians around the world and the master of post-Soviet Eurasia. No matter how the state-controlled media spin it, a reversal in eastern Ukraine will undermine him both at home and in Russia’s neighbors. The tragedy of Flight MH17 has reshaped the political context of the Ukrainian conflict. It also represents an unexpected and unwelcome challenge to Putin himself.


Until now, the desire of some members of the Obama administration for more aggressive multilateral action against Putin has been stymied by the reluctance of European governments, particularly Germany, to antagonize Russia. Business interests in the U.S. have also claimed that American companies could be hurt if they lose access to the Russian market. In the aftermath of the Malaysia Airlines disaster, which almost certainly claimed dozens of American and European lives, such voices will be drowned out by demands from the public that Russia be punished for supplying the weapons that may have brought the airliner down.
Story: Russian Media Goes Far Out to Explain Malaysia Airlines Disaster

To the vast majority of Americans, Russia’s meddling in Ukraine has largely seemed of peripheral importance to U.S. interests. That calculus has changed. As we have argued before, Putin has far more to lose from a prolonged confrontation than does the West. His finance ministry has already warned that additional sanctions would crush economic growth. And as more Russian businesses get squeezed and living standards deteriorate, Putin’s base of political support will crumble.

It may take months, even years, but Putin’s recklessness is bound to catch up to him. When it does, the downing of MH 17 may be seen as the beginning of his undoing.


Andropov didn’t have to live with opprobrium for long: he passed away less than six months after the KAL 007 disaster. Putin, however, is a relatively young, healthy man, and he will continue to occupy the world stage as Russia’s supreme ruler. But he will never again be able to portray himself as a savvy, cool broker in international affairs, nor Russia as just another great power. Now, he’s just another Soviet-era thug, a perception that was already growing before the Malaysian airliner plunged out of the sky. No matter how the current crisis ends, Putin’s name will forever be tied to this outrage, and his personal bid to create a more respected Russia through violence and intimidation is permanently defunct.

In the short term, the international community may not manage to muster sanctions against Russia that are any more effective than those imposed on the old USSR. But over the longer term, Putin has done far worse to his own country than any punishment we can levy. He has returned Russia to its cursed role as an international pariah, a country incapable of conducting itself without brutality and conquest. Putin’s Kremlin will likely pay only a modest price for now, but Russia and its people will have to bear the brunt of an increasing and corrosive isolation thrust upon them by their leader and his outdated Soviet fears and insecurities. If the Russian people one day find that NATO has renewed its purpose and that the globalized world community has moved on without them, they will have only Vladimir Putin to blame.

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On the Gaza operation:

The assault opens a new, potentially extended and bloodier stage in the conflict following a 10-day Israeli campaign of more than 2,000 airstrikes against Gaza that had failed to halt relentless Hamas rocket fire on Israeli cities. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he told his military to prepare for a possible “significant” expansion of the operation.

The government said its goal is to stop rocket attacks, destroy the network of Hamas tunnels into Israel and weaken Hamas militarily. But there are calls from hard-liners in Israel to completely crush Hamas and drive it from power in Gaza.

I don’t see why you go to all this trouble, and then just leave Hamas in power? Take Hamas out. Period.

anotherJoe on July 19, 2014 at 3:18 AM

ella….stella by starlight



“2,000 feet of North Fork River frontage”
I could live in a cave for riverfront..
someone who could afford to trash
the house if needed and build a proper log home
and it would be worth twice that much…

after a lifetime of happiness (personal use)…..smiles..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:21 AM

You Made Me Love You – James/Forrest

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:21 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:21 AM

That’s an excellent tune, Mr. Mars. :)

River front like that always relaxes me. There’s something wonderful about watching the river flow by, reflecting the sky and the trees. One of the best places to be, certainly. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM

Disturbing video about Hamas:

Hamas: We Place Civilians in the Line of Fire

anotherJoe on July 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM

Dream – Pied Pipers

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:27 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM

perhaps you could give me some kind of idea what you need/like…
close to the city?
do you shop for shoes often??
more acres?..
pool or lake??….both??
a place to run your horses??
do you ski? raft? hunt ? hike?
small log home or taj-ma-cabin??

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:30 AM

You Belong To Me – Jo Stafford

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:31 AM

Apollo 13 – As it happened

DisneyFan on July 19, 2014 at 3:32 AM

thatsafactjack on July 19

perhaps this one is more your style..??


going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:36 AM

blues for yolande


going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:43 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:30 AM

lol! I’m not a big shoe freak or a mega shopper. In clothing, etc. I buy classics, quality construction, materials, and fabrics, and I look for deals on them when I can find them. I prefer to invest in good quality pieces and keep them rather than follow trends. Having worked in the high end of that business I’m well aware of the markups.

In a property I’d consider for my own residence, rather than simply as an investment, I do appreciate privacy, beautiful property, plenty of trees, river or lake frontage, perhaps a spring fed pond or a creek and decent access.

I look for places without major liabilities, like railways, air traffic patterns overhead, airports in the vicinity, I don’t like schools nearby, I check with local zoning boards and planners to be certain nothing like that or big box stores, etc. are going into the area. I don’t like highways close by, or any sort of landfill or other pollutant site or facility, etc. either in the vicinity or upstream and that includes any underground rivers, etc.

I do enjoy my pool. It’s a very effective means of staying in condition and it also serves as a pleasant place to entertain guests. It also adds a nice focal point to the property and increases resale value. I find them to be worth the investment and the maintenance.

I do ski, raft, hunt, hike, fish, and, of course, ride horses.
In a property like that I’d definitely be looking for some good pasture, and natural meadow that could be improved over time in case I decided to expand the grazing area or even hay.

I’d need outbuildings, a spacious garage, a particularly a good barn or the space to build one, but not too huge, it’s a private residence not a commercial operation, and a general maintenance shed.

I’d think that about 1800-2000 feet in the home could suffice if it was designed properly. I like a wall of glass,a massive fireplace, stone if it’s in a log or cedar home, and lots of windows throughout the home, and large decks for entertaining or just relaxing.

How’s that for specific? :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:48 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:36 AM

Beautiful, if a little large. Maintenance would be very expensive and heating would be expensive.

Also, I really like a view, so perhaps on a rise or hill with a view down to the river front, but I’d have to own the property to the river and the river frontage, of course. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:52 AM

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM

Do you ever produce those long curls of shaved wood? I like those very much. They have so many uses. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:06 AM

Sure I make them, not on purpose though. I never know what will happen but I will save some for you.

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 3:55 AM

How’s that for specific? :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:48 AM

you left off a carriage house
for that greek kid that cleans your pool..winks..

I can tell this is gonna take a careful search…
mind winters??.. use a snowmobile?? quad?? ..favorite state??
maybe the proper land a design/build??

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:56 AM

It’s Been A Long Long Time – James/Forrest

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 3:58 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 3:56 AM

For that kind of home I love mountains, winter, I snowmobile, can use a quad, snowcat. I love chalets, modified A-frames, etc. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 4:00 AM

Parmenides on July 19, 2014 at 3:55 AM

That’s very kind of you. :) I appreciate it. I can use them for many things… like Christmas tree ornaments. A little paint, glitter, and a clip and they look lovely hanging on the tree. I’ve even sprayed them with glue and dusted them with colored coarse granulated sugar and used them on the tree. Or to just lay on the mantel as filler around other ornaments and garlands. :)

I can spray paint them and fill a glass container with them, something with an interesting shape, and it looks great and remains very light weight. :)

I also can put some essential oil on them , put them in a bowl, perhaps with some assorted crystals, and use them for a potpouri.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 4:05 AM

Moonlight Serenade – Glenn Miller

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 4:08 AM

sheesh its 4..
I have to get a nap so I can get to the Capital
for tomorrows protest…march??…sit in ??…
thanks for stopping back in ms J and Parm…always fun..
(I will leave you in the able care (hands) of the greek kid…)
and the tunes and log cabin dreaming…
have a wonderful night.. sleep well and be safe..

ps..river property aint cheap and its going fast.. for real money..
the rich are buying up the Rockies..have been for a while
but I will find you something nice…go with design/build..
you’ll be happier.. get what you want..

cheers HA

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 4:10 AM

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 4:10 AM

Goodnight, Mr. Mars. :) Sleep well and be safe tomorrow. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 4:11 AM

In The Mood – Glenn Miller

:) ——————————————->dancing. :)

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 4:13 AM

And… goodnight. :)

Moonlight – Steve Cole

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 4:18 AM


PointnClick on July 19, 2014 at 5:04 AM

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Nice discussion about how we want to spend our retirement years. It seems to me most of us could live in anything if it’s in the right place. Some live in closets so they can be in Manhattan.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 5:26 AM

Overnight they were wondering about Obama going to Camp David so I thought I would look it up. It was built by the WPA for government officials. It’s officially a Naval installation. It was turned into a presidential retreat for Roosevelt who named it Shangri-La. Eisenhower renamed it Camp David for his grandson. I didn’t see this but I seem to remember someone along the way, maybe Truman, wanted to get rid of it but it was decided it was best to keep it because it’s so easy to secure and the president can feel like he’s away from everything and act more or less normal.

It looks as if there was some perceived threat to Obungle or there’s something secret going on.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 5:54 AM

Get Ready for the New England Power Shortage
Governors are already meeting in emergency session.

Just read this a little while ago. I hadn’t realized how bad things were. Some really shocking facts. The Yankees really are going to freeze to death in the dark. Scary and sad that those with common sense will suffer because of the “upper-educated elites.”

What a case in point for the havoc and misery that progressive politics bring with their ongoing and incredible ability to live in denial of reality.

INC on July 19, 2014 at 6:14 AM

INC on July 19, 2014 at 6:14 AM

I read that too. How do those Northeasterners let this stuff go on? Closing Vermont Yankee? However, if they’re all for closing it, well go ahead & freeze. Good luck with that.

8 weight on July 19, 2014 at 6:28 AM

good morning HA

cmsinaz on July 19, 2014 at 7:42 AM

Good morning cmsinaz.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 7:44 AM

Good morning COL and cmsinaz. Good to see you both this morning.

esr1951 on July 19, 2014 at 8:04 AM

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 7:44 AM

esr1951 on July 19, 2014 at 8:04 AM


cmsinaz on July 19, 2014 at 8:29 AM

that mika just sets my hair on fire!

oops wrong day.

renalin on July 19, 2014 at 8:30 AM

renalin on July 19, 2014 at 8:30 AM



cmsinaz on July 19, 2014 at 8:41 AM

Damp and foggy here. The museum at the lake has to shut down. It was in a small, very old building and the plumbing no longer works. The state can’t afford to fix it and frankly it isn’t worth it. The building would have been bulldozed years ago if there hadn’t been a use for it.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 9:51 AM

Happy Saturday, y’all!

It is a conflict of interest to swear to “preserve” a country which you have already promised to “radically change”.- KJ

My take: A Presidential Priority Problem

kingsjester on July 19, 2014 at 10:33 AM

My take: A Presidential Priority Problem

kingsjester on July 19, 2014 at 10:33 AM

I don’t see how anyone can take an oath like that and then completely ignore it.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM

Yes, ma’am. Americans could and would not. But, Obama certainly did.

kingsjester on July 19, 2014 at 11:11 AM

It looks as if there was some perceived threat to Obungle or there’s something secret going on.
crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 5:54 AM

Methinks he’s just getting outta Dodge because of the protests…zero doesn’t like having his failed policies brought home to roost…like chickens…

Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:59 PM

Methinks he’s just getting outta Dodge because of the protests…zero doesn’t like having his failed policies brought home to roost…like chickens…

Newtie and the Beauty on July 19, 2014 at 12:59 PM

A lot of what they do makes it look like he and his gang are afraid of the people. They have armed the agencies to the teeth and once in awhile one of them slip up and calls us terrorists.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 1:14 PM

Is anybody tweeting about the protests? I don’t know how to find this stuff.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 1:30 PM

COL, I didn’t make it to the protest in Sacramento. I don’t twitter. I’ve been looking for protest info online and haven’t found anything. Frustrating.

31giddyup on July 19, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Protest info – scroll down.

Schadenfreude on July 19, 2014 at 2:30 PM

I suppose there will be something later.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 3:07 PM

Went to the Tea Party Sac. website, didn’t even list today’s event. You’d think they would to get people out there. Sheesh.

31giddyup on July 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Went to the Tea Party Sac. website, didn’t even list today’s event. You’d think they would to get people out there. Sheesh.

31giddyup on July 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Maybe we’ll hear from some people on QOTD tonight.

crankyoldlady on July 19, 2014 at 4:55 PM

That picture of Putin looks like he’s about to puke or pass a magnitude 4.7 f@&t.


woodcdi on July 19, 2014 at 5:56 PM

I am home safe from todays protest in the capital…Lansing
and in need of some quiet nappy time…
the RATSO sign was a huge hit..!!!
(yes I included @HOTAIR.com on the bottom)
the paid BAMN screaming loons…not so much…
(totally an open border bring any and all here bunch, screaming loons)
the “we welcome LEGAL immigrants ONLY” side of the sign…mild..
120-150 of us….20-30 paid shills ($35/day I heard and free signs)..
(Michigan is an open carry state…so
a half dozen ar-15’s and 50-60 side arms)
BAMN shills had a megaphone…
20-30 cops…no arrests today.. (I heard 1 BAMN goon yesterday)
going to nap for a bit…rest my ears..
cheers HA..

going2mars on July 19, 2014 at 7:05 PM

Thank you G2M. So cool that you had RATSO and @Hot Air on your sign.

31giddyup on July 19, 2014 at 7:39 PM

31giddyup on July 19, 2014 at 7:39 PM

I left a post for you on another thread, Rhonda, but in case you didn’t see it, everything went off without any major problems.

thatsafactjack on July 19, 2014 at 8:35 PM

Thank you Miss Jackie. Was it a good turn out?

31giddyup on July 19, 2014 at 8:52 PM