America responds to airliner attack with sadness, not strength

posted at 2:01 pm on July 18, 2014 by Noah Rothman

The Washington Free Beacon’s Matthew Continetti set the stage on Friday for the present standoff between the West and Russia, and the Obama administration’s complicity in allowing events in Europe to spiral out of control:

“I think it was a brilliant stroke,” Hillary Clinton says of the “reset” policy the United States pursued toward Russia when she was secretary of State. She has an odd understanding of brilliance. The “reset” gave us a world where Georgia remains illegally occupied, where Poland and the Czech Republic lack missile defenses, where American parents cannot adopt Russian babies, where Russian bombers fly within 50 miles of the Pacific coast, where Ukraine is sundered, where the prospects for ground war in Eastern Europe are high, where Putin says U.S. sanctions against his cronies will take bilateral relations to a “dead end.”

On Thursday, the smoldering conflict between the West and a revanchist Russia took on a new and unthinkably dangerous dimension when pro-Russian separatists armed with sophisticated Russian weaponry attacked a civilian airliner, killing nearly 300 noncombatants including one dual American citizen.

“It strains credulity,” Rear Adm. John Kirby, Pentagon press secretary, said on Friday when asked if he thought the pro-Russian rebels in east Ukraine operated the powerful anti-aircraft battery that took MH17 out of the sky on their own. He added that there must have been “at least some measure of Russian support.”

This escalation in the face of repeated American attempts to resolve tensions in Eastern Europe peacefully, through the application of diplomatic pressure and the imposition of “smart power” sanctions regimes on Russian individuals and industries has not, however, led members of the administration to express their justified exasperation. Instead, America’s leaders have projected emotion.

United Nations Amb. Samantha Power presented a compelling case on Friday against Russia in the United Nations Security Council. In her speech, Power indicated Moscow’s protection and support of rebel factions in Ukraine led to this escalation in refreshingly clear terms. She began, however, with a display of sentiment when detailing the grim results of this gross crime.

Hours later, President Barack Obama followed her lead when he announced, neither his decision to agree to supply Ukraine with the lethal aid they have requested nor that the United States was redirecting troops and carriers to the region in order to protect the citizens of NATO allies under threat, but his support for a thorough investigation into the attack.

In that announcement, Obama, too, projected sorrow rather than warranted anger.

“So now’s, I think, a somber and appropriate time for all of us to step back and take a hard look at what has happened,” he said. “Violence and conflict inevitably lead to unforeseen consequences.”

I spoke to President Putin yesterday in the wake of additional sanctions that we had imposed. He said he wasn’t happy with them, and I told him that we have been very clear from the outset that we want Russia to take the path that would result in peace in Ukraine, but so far, at least, Russia has failed to take that path. Instead, it has continued to violate Ukrainian sovereignty and to support violent separatists. It has also failed to use its influence to press the separatists to abide by a cease-fire. That’s why, together with our allies, we’ve imposed growing costs on Russia.

It has been apparent for some time that Moscow views those “costs” as acceptable.

On Thursday, the president called the attack on MH17 a “tragedy.” He said then that he did not want to get in front of the facts of the investigation into that incident. The facts are, however, known today, and they indicate that this was no “tragedy.” An earthquake is a tragedy. A natural and unpreventable calamity that can only be met with prayer and reflection is a tragedy. This was an atrocity.

While the president called this act of terror an “outrage” and several times insisted that Russia had instigated this heinous act by supporting brutal partisans in Ukraine, he urged caution and patience while an already corrupted and actively resisted investigation into the attack takes place.

Meanwhile, the United States weeps for those who lost their lives on Thursday and they left behind. That is fine, but those souls taken too early as the result of actions by an irresponsible and aggressive foreign power also deserve to be avenged.


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“I think it was a brilliant stroke,” Hillary Clinton says of the “reset” policy the United States pursued toward Russia when she was secretary of State.

Reset all the way back to the Cold War. Heckuva job, Hillary.

rbj on July 18, 2014 at 2:02 PM

Truly, all that mattered yesterday was that the fundraisers went on as scheduled.

Nothing must interfere with the liberal money machine.

Oh, and he has more golfing scheduled, so…

climbnjump on July 18, 2014 at 2:07 PM

He grieves….

d1carter on July 18, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Out: Bears poop in the woods

In: Bears poop on stage

faraway on July 18, 2014 at 2:08 PM

I wonder if any other groups in the world are paying attention to the consequences of shooting down a passenger jetliner…?

d1carter on July 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM

America responds to airliner attack with sadness, not strength

…did the Speaker of the House…cry?

JugEarsButtHurt on July 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM

I wonder if any other groups in the world are paying attention to the consequences of shooting down a passenger jetliner…?

d1carter on July 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM

Exactly. We have now been conditioned to think that shooting down airliners is OK.

faraway on July 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM

Did we go to war after the Korean Air plane was shot down? No?

Is this one of the times style trumps substance, or is it the other way around?

antisense on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

War monger: “I am prepared to wait till hell freezes over”

Smart power: “wahh….wahh….boohoo…sniff”

BobMbx on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Media Statement 4 on Flight MH17, from Malaysian Airlines

With complete cargo manifest and airway bill (as PDFs). Cargo included pets, live birds, pigeons, etc.

Ward Cleaver on July 18, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Conservatism deals with facts not emotions. When you slime Americans who believe in logic and the rule of law as “hard hearted”, then you’re going to end up with liberal mush not just for domestic policy, but for foreign policy as well.

Noah Rothman ‏@NoahCRothman

The irony: those who attacked Beck for helping advance a Dem narrative are now the focus of a new Dem narrative about hardhearted GOPers

Ironic indeed. /

sauldalinsky on July 18, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Hey gang, let’s go build us some roads & bridges, huh??

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Boy, it really worth effort it takes to gin up more inane criticisms of Obama? He expressed sympathy without immediately (this happened yesterday) avenging (been watching late-seventies Charles Bronson movies lately?) their deaths? Really?

This is one of the most worthless posts I’ve ever read on the Internet. And, obviously, that is saying something. The keyboard commandos are alive and well.

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

I wonder if any other groups in the world are paying attention to the lack of consequences of shooting down a passenger jetliner…?

d1carter on July 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM

I hear ya .. AQ wouldn’t wanna get one of dem strongly worded letters, after all.
:-/

pambi on July 18, 2014 at 2:16 PM

How about a burger? (well unless you’re in school)

faraway on July 18, 2014 at 2:16 PM

The facts are, however, known today, and they indicate that this was no “tragedy.” An earthquake is a tragedy. A natural and unpreventable calamity that can only be met with prayer and reflection is a tragedy. This was an atrocity.

Yes exactly. Big difference.

cat_owner on July 18, 2014 at 2:16 PM

“Violence and conflict inevitably lead to unforeseen consequences.” -Putz-

Tragedy? Call it what it is.
Murder.
Plain and simple.

partsnlabor on July 18, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Chuckin’ and Jivin’….

Welcome to America

Electrongod on July 18, 2014 at 2:18 PM

…including one dual American citizen.

.
Notice anything wrong with this phrase, Noah?

PolAgnostic on July 18, 2014 at 2:19 PM

A natural and unpreventable calamity that can only be met with prayer and reflection is a tragedy. This was an atrocity.

No, this is not an atrocity, as much as everyone wants to blame Obama for this, this isn’t Obama’s fault. This… Is what is known as collateral damage. Anywhere their is a war, you end up with collateral damage. Collateral damage is where innocent or unintended victims die in a war zone through no fault or action of their own, other than actually being physically in the middle of a war zone.

Human beings are not perfect, wars are when two or more groups of individuals decide to settle their disagreements through extremely lethal violent means. Whenever you have imperfect beings waging war, then there will be incidents where individuals are killed, who were not, who, those engaged in the act of killing, them thought they were.

:To be Continued:

oscarwilde on July 18, 2014 at 2:19 PM

Boy, it really worth effort it takes to gin up more inane criticisms of Obama?

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Actually, Tommy, it takes no effort at all. Obama makes criticism easy…

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 2:20 PM

He expressed sympathy without immediately (this happened yesterday) avenging (been watching late-seventies Charles Bronson movies lately?) their deaths? Really?

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Tom, you care nothing about the American that burned to death do you? Where is the body? What is Obama doing to retrieve the body?

Do you feel safer flying now? Does Obama care if Americans are shot down? This is what ‘strength’ is. Protecting even you as you fly.

faraway on July 18, 2014 at 2:20 PM

Obama wept (Some of you will get it)

iceman1960 on July 18, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Tom , are you satisfied with what the president did yesterday and do you know when the next fundraising is? Are you satisfied with the aggressiveness of the Russians especially when their planes get close to American shores? Are you satisfied with the president usurping more power and ignoring the constitution?. Just wondering if you look forward to a dictatorship with no freedom and liberties.

garydt on July 18, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Did we go to war after the Korean Air plane was shot down? No?

Is this one of the times style trumps substance, or is it the other way around?

antisense on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

So, do you have a point?

arnold ziffel on July 18, 2014 at 2:22 PM

“Let me be clear, this MH17 ain’t no big thang like this here fundraiser, f’r’instance…”

“Plug the hole, Daddy.”

viking01 on July 18, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Obama wept (Some of you will get it)

iceman1960 on July 18, 2014 at 2:21 PM

And those of us who do know full well that Barack Obama is the polar opposite of Jesus.

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Can we just send Eric Holder over there to sort things out and call everyone racist cowards?

I’m sure that would clear everything up in a jiffy!

ajacksonian on July 18, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Did we go to war after the Korean Air plane was shot down? No?

Is this one of the times style trumps substance, or is it the other way around?

antisense on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

So, do you have a point?

arnold ziffel on July 18, 2014 at 2:22 PM

Of course not. Does he ever??

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 2:26 PM

And those of us who do know full well that Barack Obama is the polar opposite of Jesus.

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Amen to that!

iceman1960 on July 18, 2014 at 2:26 PM

The electorate is in an Isolationist mindset right now. Don’t expect any hawkishness from this administration under those circumstances. I wouldn’t expect any anyway, but there is absolutely no pressure for Obama to ‘stand strong.’

Corporal Tunnel on July 18, 2014 at 2:26 PM

This is one of the most worthless posts I’ve ever read on the Internet. And, obviously, that is saying something. The keyboard commandos are alive and well.

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

The irony is strong with this one.

Mitoch55 on July 18, 2014 at 2:26 PM

The US as I used to know it (I’m 64) us over, gone, a footnote in history. The people have not held up their end of the great experiment. The government has succeeded in beating the people down enough to the point that only illegal aliens have the balls to take their demands to the streets. When the veterans won’t even mount massive protests that would get the support of non vets then it’s over. They fought for the country and the people show their gratitude by sitting on their hands and keeping their mouths shut. . Smart phones are the new SOMA. As long as we can tweet out outrage then our work is done.

Jackson on July 18, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Notice anything wrong with this phrase, Noah?

PolAgnostic on July 18, 2014 at 2:19 PM

I’m pretty sure Noah doesn’t read the comments. It would do too much damage to his self worth.

Deano1952 on July 18, 2014 at 2:28 PM

President Bush stands on a crushed fire truck, a bullhorn in hand, and speaks to the Ground Zero workers, America and the world:
..
..

“I want you all to know that America today, America today is on bended knee, in prayer for the people whose lives were lost here, for the workers who work here, for the families who mourn.

The nation stands with the good people of New York City and New Jersey and Connecticut as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens.

I can hear you! I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you! And the people — and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!”
..
..
..
Thank you George Bush for being President when 9/11 happened.
The real tragedy is our current POTUS.

We miss you, George.

Typicalwhitewoman on July 18, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Did we go to war after the Korean Air plane was shot down? No?

Is this one of the times style trumps substance, or is it the other way around?

antisense on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Antisense, antiknowledge, antismarts, antihistory; did I miss anything?

Reagan wasn’t willing to go to war over a civilian aircraft violating Soviet airspace, but neither did he roll over and play dead. He doubled his efforts to strengthen our military and our allies militaries in an effort to hasten the demise of the Soviet Union.

Obama? He talks about investigations while he continues to abandon our allies.

Reagan made sure the world knew who the enemy with every opportunity.

Obama? He releases the boor within himself with every opportunity.

Reagan was willing to give direct support to proxies against the Soviet Union, and KAL 007 only reinforced his desire to do so.

Obama? He makes childish jokes about the 1980′s foreign policy, and pretends that a threat to the world is only acting out of childish aggression.

The current occupant of the WH is an enabler of the worst kind. He projects weakness at every turn, and refuses to recognize or fight evil in the world. Now you explain to us how that is the same thing Reagan did.

NotCoach on July 18, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Seems to me, based upon the SD and Power’s activities yesterday the video seems to reek of “crock-a-dile tears”.

Boo Hoo Samantha. Where was your angst yesterday?

CoffeeGuy on July 18, 2014 at 2:31 PM

Can we just send Eric Holder over there to sort things out and call everyone racist cowards?

I’m sure that would clear everything up in a jiffy!

ajacksonian on July 18, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Sleazy Hustler Holder probably would try to shred the airplane starting with The Man’s black box.

viking01 on July 18, 2014 at 2:31 PM

“I think it was a brilliant stroke,” Hillary Clinton says of the “reset” policy the United States pursued toward Russia when she was secretary of State. She has an odd understanding of brilliance. The “reset” gave us a world where Georgia remains illegally occupied, where Poland and the Czech Republic lack missile defenses, where American parents cannot adopt Russian babies, where Russian bombers fly within 50 miles of the Pacific coast, where Ukraine is sundered, where the prospects for ground war in Eastern Europe are high, where Putin says U.S. sanctions against his cronies will take bilateral relations to a “dead end.”

This statement makes perfect sense if, like me, you start with the assumption that Hillary! is a hardcore leftist who dreams of a resurgent Communist Russia, which she can help to conquer the world. After which Triumph, she thinks, she will rule same as the first Queen of the World Soviet.

She’s been a far-left fringie most of her life, certainly since college, and I don’t believe leopards change their spots all that often.

clear ether

eon

eon on July 18, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Jackson on July 18, 2014 at 2:27 PM

While I’m with you in age and in sentiment, I believe that our veterans have done enough. To lay our current miseries on their door step is cowardly.

I think it’s time for the rank and file citizenry to rise up and stem the tide. I’m certain the veterans will be with us, but to expect them to shoulder the burden again is just wrong…

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 2:34 PM

“It strains credulity,” Rear Adm. John Kirby, Pentagon press secretary, said on Friday when asked if he thought the pro-Russian rebels in east Ukraine operated the powerful anti-aircraft battery that took MH17 out of the sky on their own. He added that there must have been “at least some measure of Russian support.”

Well, there’s a different view – that Russian personnel are competent enough to distinguish an airliner from a cargo plane. It could be that the separatists could operate targeting radar just well enough to hit something without knowing what it really was.

corona79 on July 18, 2014 at 2:34 PM

What should we do it we had a strong and competent president?

Forget stupid sanctions, forget trying to arm the Ukrainians, who frankly may not be the most honest or competent bunch out there.

If you want to get Putin’s attention just come out and support Finland getting into NATO…and even better see if Finland wants to base American troops on their soil, not to mention let them have access to high end American military equipment.

Also increase military ties with the Baltic states and Poland.

That will get Putin’s attention…all the rest of this is pointless gesturing and chest thumping.

William Eaton on July 18, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

I heard you just got out of jail Tom.Keep clean this time.

celtic warrior on July 18, 2014 at 2:35 PM

At least Carter acted like he was angry when this sort of thing happened.

formwiz on July 18, 2014 at 2:36 PM

The saddest part is that the scientific junket the plane was servicing was not to a global warming event.

If we are going to lose over 100 of the top scientists in a field… medicine was not the one to lose them in…

astonerii on July 18, 2014 at 2:37 PM

I heard you just got out of jail Tom.Keep clean this time.

celtic warrior on July 18, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Ah, so that explains the new, but cheap, suit?

viking01 on July 18, 2014 at 2:40 PM

That is fine, but those souls taken too early as the result of actions by an irresponsible and aggressive foreign power also deserve to be avenged.

“Avenged?”

Axe on July 18, 2014 at 2:41 PM

antisense on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

So, do you have a point?

arnold ziffel on July 18, 2014 at 2:22 PM

…I think…it’s sticking up there…where the sun don’t shine!

JugEarsButtHurt on July 18, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Boy, it really worth effort it takes to gin up more inane criticisms of Obama? He expressed sympathy without immediately (this happened yesterday) avenging (been watching late-seventies Charles Bronson movies lately?) their deaths? Really?

This is one of the most worthless posts I’ve ever read on the Internet. And, obviously, that is saying something. The keyboard commandos are alive and well.

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Nice pattern, shared by the bumbling idiot and his minions in the White House.

Feign outrage over anything, through emotional sympathy – without actually doing the job of President. And relying on the liberal sycophants to carry the water.

Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS, Immigration, Russia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. etc – all reacted with “sympathy” – and not a damn thing done about any of them. Obama and his minions are consistently ineffective, consistently weak and consistently dangerous through apathy.

But I digress, I know deep down the liberals are well aware the AA hire is both over his head and lacking any skill set or IQ to deal with anything effectively.

BTW Tom – how’s Syria’s people doing? Oh that’s right, Putin is running the show there, including ISIS, Assad and weapons. Another “Smart Power” clusterfark from Obama. Rinse and repeat.

Odie1941 on July 18, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Well, what did you expect.

They Elected a Man who was Obsessed with Being President while having no inclination toward Doing president, all for the purpose of Making History.

I hope they are Proud of Themselves.

jaydee_007 on July 18, 2014 at 2:46 PM

Back up a second here …

The West announced stricter standards against Russia, and a day later Russia (through proxy) shoots down a Western airline?

Wouldn’t that be, I don’t know, an act of war?

Lance Corvette on July 18, 2014 at 2:48 PM

Boy, it really worth effort it takes to gin up more inane criticisms of Obama? He expressed sympathy without immediately (this happened yesterday) avenging (been watching late-seventies Charles Bronson movies lately?) their deaths? Really?

This is one of the most worthless posts I’ve ever read on the Internet. And, obviously, that is saying something. The keyboard commandos are alive and well.

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Shipley, you reprobate! How’s the summer weather at your villa in Hamhung? Good grass harvest there this year?

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2014 at 2:57 PM

Back up a second here …

The West announced stricter standards against Russia, and a day later Russia (through proxy) shoots down a Western airline?

Wouldn’t that be, I don’t know, an act of war?

Lance Corvette on July 18, 2014 at 2:48 PM

Well, yeah, if:

“The West” was a country and the air liner was a “West-flagged” airliner. Since the West is not a country and the airliner was from a country that was not, exactly, in the west (Malaysia), not so much.

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 2:59 PM

Obviously no one wants to own this and can’t figure out who they can blame for it that is not one of them.

One of those is clearly Obama who has been to Putin’s wood shed enough times to know that Putin is the adult in the house.

This brings up the point that Obama is incapable of protecting the United States from Harm. He is incapable of assessing a situation and reacting appropriately. He is incapable of making decisions because as this situation has shown he is not kept informed of situations. He was so unsure of what happened that he says it “It looks like it may be a terrible tragedy” and was unaware that there were American’s aboard the aircraft. That was long after the state department had determined that there were 23 Americans on board, and before he began his fundraising speeches on the Republican’s failure to fund the rebuilding of America’s infrastructures.

If Obama, the president of the United States, is not being kept informed of situation as this one, or others that he claims he learned about from the news like the rest of us, then he obviously is not considered to be in the loop of real decision making. This is further demonstrated by his conversation with his “team” where he tells them to continue doing what they are doing and heads off to the next two fundraisers.

This also illustrates that Obama is deliberately being kept out of the decision loops as well as most other presidential responsibilities. He is campaigning because he has nothing else he can do that he is able to handle. It does point to a question of Obama’s mental stability with consideration to the problems commonly associated with psychotic narcissism that we are seeing.

Obama needs to be removed from office. It is clear that he no longer has the ability to perform his duties or the understanding of situation that require his ability to act in the interest of the Nation as he is sworn to do.

Franklyn on July 18, 2014 at 3:00 PM

Did we go to war after the Korean Air plane was shot down? No?

Is this one of the times style trumps substance, or is it the other way around?

anti_intelligence on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Some of what we did then:

Shortly after the Soviet Union shot down KAL 007, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, operating the commercial airports around New York City, denied Soviet aircraft landing rights, in violation of the United Nations Charter that required the host nation to allow all member countries access to the UN.

And some of what the other side did then:

The Soviet hierarchy took the official line that KAL Flight 007 was on a spy mission, as it “flew deep into Soviet territory for several hundred kilometres, without responding to signals and disobeying the orders of interceptor fighter planes”.They claimed its purpose was to probe the air defences of highly sensitive Soviet military sites in the Kamchatka Peninsula and Sakhalin Island. The Soviet government expressed regret over the loss of life, but offered no apology and did not respond to demands for compensation. Instead, the USSR blamed the CIA for this “criminal, provocative act”

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2014 at 3:04 PM

Meanwhile, the United States weeps for those who lost their lives on Thursday and they left behind. That is fine, but those souls taken too early as the result of actions by an irresponsible and aggressive foreign power also deserve to be avenged.

Wrong. Or at least not how Reagan would’ve handled it:

Even at the height of the Cold War, however — and keeping in mind that the flight had departed from the U.S., with dozens of American passengers, including a sitting member of Congress – Reagan told a National Security Meeting that “we’ve got to protect against overreaction. Vengeance isn’t the name of the game.

underceij on July 18, 2014 at 3:07 PM

Iranian Air Flight 655 shot down by the U.S. Navy in 1988 killing 290.

Kaptain Amerika on July 18, 2014 at 3:08 PM

As the war drums are beaten, it might be wise to remember that air liners that stray into or near war zones or security zones occasionally get shot down, even by good people.

- In 1973 the Israelis shot down a Libyan airliner with 113 passengers on board; due to bad weather and equipment failure it strayed into Israeli security zone and was shot down by Israel (the area was on the verge of war).

- In 1988 the US Navy shot down an Iranian air liner, killing 290 passengers aboard, having mistaken it for a fighter. US admitted responsibility (bu, famously, Bush did not apologize, recognizing that the situation was the result of the tensions that Iran was largely responsible for) and paid compensation.

- In 2000 the Ukraine military shot down a Russian airliner that had strayed over Crimea killing both Israeli tourists and Russians. Ukraine eventually admitted responsibility and paid compensation.

Those who wonder that a bunch of half-trained separatists with possibly a few Russian advisers using Russian gear could mistake a military transport for an airliner should ask yourselves why highly trained US Navy personnel aboard our most sophisticated air defense system could mistake an air liner for a *fighter*. Answer: it happens, the same way friendly fire incidents do.

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 3:09 PM

Iranian Air Flight 655 shot down by the U.S. Navy in 1988 killing 290.

Kaptain Amerika on July 18, 2014 at 3:08 PM

A good start. Long time since then…what’s wrong??

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 3:11 PM

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 3:09 PM

So I guess it’s all good, then, right?? One of those woops…sorry…moments? Tell that to the families of the 298 dead.

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 3:15 PM

We didn’t get any sadness from the hollow vacuous ‘leader of the free world’. He couldn’t talk about it for long because the teleprompter couldn’t figure out how to get related ‘I’, ‘me’ or ‘my’ into his mouth.

maryo on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

President Bush stands on a crushed fire truck, a bullhorn in hand, and speaks to the Ground Zero workers, America and the world:

And then invades a country under false pretenses, needlessly leading to the death of 5,000 Americans and hundreds of thousands Iraqis, as well as reigniting a sectarian war that has further destabilized the Middle East.

Oh, and by the way, Obama is the one who got Osama after Bush took his eye of Afghanistan to needlessly focus on Iraq.

STRENGTH!

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Did we go to war after the Korean Air plane was shot down? No?

Is this one of the times style trumps substance, or is it the other way around?

antisense on July 18, 2014 at 2:12 PM

overseas units went full alert and prepared to go.

dmacleo on July 18, 2014 at 3:26 PM

STRENGTH!

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Debunked liberal talking points. Yawn.

maryo on July 18, 2014 at 3:29 PM

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

You must be recently released from jail, dooooode. Barack Obama is POTUS; the Navy SEALs got Osama; there was a coalition of nations in support of the invasion of Iraq as well as a huge majority in Congress voting FOR it.

Had your boy, Clinton, taken Osama out when he had the chance, 9/11/01 would never have happened, and a community organizer would not be partying and golfing his way through 8 years of malaise…

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Debunked liberal talking points. Yawn.

maryo on July 18, 2014 at 3:29 PM

They don’t get access to the news in da big house…

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 3:31 PM

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 3:09 PM

So I guess it’s all good, then, right?? One of those woops…sorry…moments? Tell that to the families of the 298 dead.

bimmcorp on July 18, 2014 at 3:15 PM

To some extent, yeah.

In fact, “Sorry” would be a good start. It’s not likely to happen, considering who is responsible (the rebels and Russia), but “whoops, sorry, we’ll pay compensation” is what the US, Israel, and other legitimate nations do when this happens. Which it does.

- That’s what Ukraine had to say to the 78 Israeli tourists its forces killed by mistake in 2000.
- That’s what America had to say to the 290 Iranian civilians our Navy killed by mistake in 1988.
- That’s what Israel had to say to the 113 Libyans its air force killed by mistake.

(Of course, the Russians and the Chinese and the Bulgarians and a bunch of other countries often don’t even bother to say “Sorry” when their even more trigger-happy air defense people do this.)

At the moment, we don’t know whether this was a deliberate terrorist attack, or a mistake. Evidence suggests the Russian-supported insurgents were responsible, though it’s unclear if the weapon system was supplied by Russia or captured from Ukraine.

If Russia supplied the weapons, they bear a lot of responsibility for supplying sophisticated hardware to poorly trained rebels.

Ideally, if the rebels did it (and they know if they did), they’ll admit their mistake and get Russia to pay some compensation to the victims. As the rebels are in the service of a regime, Russia, known for its lies and deception, I doubt this will happen, though international pressure to get them to do so is not a bad thing.

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Oh, and by the way, Obama is the one who got Osama after Bush took his eye of Afghanistan to needlessly focus on Iraq.

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Did he? I never saw the carcass. But Obama wouldn’t lie to us, right?

Rix on July 18, 2014 at 3:41 PM

I should also point out that:

- The Russians shot down KAL 007 and killed 267 civilians in 1983
- France *may* have killed 80 civilians in a shoot down in 1980 (still disputed, though an Italian court ruled it so)
- Bulgarians killed 58 Israelis aboard a straying airliner in 1955
- Chinese shot down various Taiwanese aircraft in the 50s
- In addition to several airliners downed deliberately by various rebel groups who shot indiscriminately at anything entering a war zone

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 3:47 PM

Putin blows up an Airline and the world does nothing.
Incredible stuff I tell ya

weedisgood on July 18, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Unusual source of lucidity

Schadenfreude on July 18, 2014 at 4:07 PM

And then invades a country under false pretenses, needlessly leading to the death of 5,000 Americans and hundreds of thousands Iraqis, as well as reigniting a sectarian war that has further destabilized the Middle East.

Oh, and by the way, Obama is the one who got Osama after Bush took his eye of Afghanistan to needlessly focus on Iraq.

STRENGTH!

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

You went full retard, man. Never go full retard.

HumpBot Salvation on July 18, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Compare and contrast with how Australia (which lost 28 citizens) and its Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, have responded to this naked aggression:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/?nk=e2b59bcb681111579610e8e0a409b37b
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/

Also interesting is how the Australian leftist newspaper, the Sydney Morning Herald, finds a way to tweek their nemesis Tony Abbott:
http://www.smh.com.au/

MikeHu on July 18, 2014 at 4:19 PM

MOO!

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Grazing in the grass again, I see. Hugh Masekela sends his greetings!

Let’s talk about your laughable “false pretenses” claim. This can easily be debunked when we actually look at the 2002 Authorization, which lists at least a dozen reasons to take Saddam out.

Only one of those reasons was WMDs, and much of that WMD intel wasn’t generated by Bush-it was generated by the previous Administration, as well as by many foreign intel agencies.

One of the other reasons was Iraq’s repeated ignorance of UN sanctions and Resolutions; those are engraved in stone and cannot be called “false”, except on your world.

Another reason cited in the Resolution was the attempted assassination of Pappy Bush by Saddam’s regime after the liberation of Kuwait. That reason was cited endlessly by BDSers like yourself as proof that Chimpy went into Iraq as revenge for Daddy almost getting killed by Saddam.

Only problem with that warped view is that Democrat pResident Bill Clinton was the one who first responded to that attempted assassination, by sending a batch of cruise missiles into Baghdad. Nothing “false” about that reason, either.

As for bin Laden, your Cult Leader only got a 5% bump in job approval after that mighty feat, and that was only achieved after the pollster sampled twice as many Democrats as Republicans.

F-

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

You went full retard, man. Never go full retard.

HumpBot Salvation on July 18, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Ship was famous for that at Captain’s Quarters as well.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2014 at 4:24 PM

As the war drums are beaten, it might be wise to remember that air liners that stray into or near war zones or security zones occasionally get shot down, even by good people.

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 3:09 PM

I agree. In my opinion, this was essentially an accident, a tragic one. It certainly wasn’t what some are describing as an “act of terrorism.” The bottom line was that the Boeing 777 strayed too near the war zone–a war zone which has been off limits to American planes for close to a month now. What is up with Malaysia Air, anyway? This is the second plane full of passengers they’ve “lost” in less than a year.

Liberals loathe Putin because he cracked down on gays in Russia and because he personifies in their minds the alpha male values and image that disgust them. Conservatives are furious at Putin because he reminds our country of how impotent we’ve become as a nation. This is an excuse for all emotional hell to break lose on both sides of the political spectrum. Objectively speaking, though, it was an accident, I think, and the ones most to blame in all this are the idiots in Malaysia who think they can run a professional airline but keep killing people instead.

Burke on July 18, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Did you guys hear the one about the Pres(id0ent who was so dumb that he thought foreign policy was Mexican car insurance?

Armed Texan on July 18, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Interesting irony(or coincidence?) is that anti-gay Putin is involved with shooting down of an airliner filled with over 100 AIDS researchers, officials, and activists going Australia for 20th international Aids conference…

albill on July 18, 2014 at 4:54 PM

President Bush stands on a crushed fire truck, a bullhorn in hand, and speaks to the Ground Zero workers, America and the world:

 
And then invades a country under false pretenses, needlessly leading to the death of 5,000 Americans and hundreds of thousands Iraqis, as well as reigniting a sectarian war that has further destabilized the Middle East.
 
Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

 
Don’t forget his most callous act during all of that-
 
Getting Congressional approval.

rogerb on July 18, 2014 at 4:58 PM

What should we do it we had a strong and competent president?

Forget stupid sanctions, forget trying to arm the Ukrainians, who frankly may not be the most honest or competent bunch out there.

If you want to get Putin’s attention just come out and support Finland getting into NATO…and even better see if Finland wants to base American troops on their soil, not to mention let them have access to high end American military equipment.

Also increase military ties with the Baltic states and Poland.

That will get Putin’s attention…all the rest of this is pointless gesturing and chest thumping.

William Eaton on July 18, 2014 at 2:34 PM

This is not primarily the US’s issue. It’s NATO’s (and Oz’s). What we need to do is to push NATO (and Oz) to support additional sanctions, to beef up NATO’s weapons, to give additional support to the Ukraine and the Baltic States, etc. Russia is already hurting financially. NATO and the rest of the world need to drag Russia down much further.

The US can’t financially afford to go alone any more in matters that don’t directly affect the US.

The difference between this time and the Korean airliner is: this looks like an accident; that was intentional; only one US (dual) citizen was aboard this flight; 65 or so were aboard the other flight; this was apparently a missile shot by a Ukrainian separatist (although with Russian support); the other was a missile shot by a Russian pilot; this was a plane that didn’t involve US air space; the other took off from the US.

jim56 on July 18, 2014 at 5:26 PM

agree. In my opinion, this was essentially an accident, a tragic one….What is up with Malaysia Air, anyway? This is the second plane full of passengers they’ve “lost” in less than a year.
Burke on July 18, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Questions certainly need to be asked about Malaysia Air’s pilots, though it may be just terrible luck this time. (The last one might have been a murder-suicide by the pilot, but I doubt the pilots this time planned on being hit by a SAM).

However, even though I think it likely that this WAS an accident, and calling the rebels “terrorists” is hyperbole, it’s also true that saying “oops, I killed civilians when I thought I was shooting someone else” still means the blame goes to the shooters. Blowing up an airliner full of civilians including children by accident may not be a terrorist atrocity, but it’s still criminally negligent on the part of those responsible.

While Malaysian Air Lines appear to have definitely screwed up in either training its pilots or allowing them to route aircraft through Ukraine (presumably tragically prioritizing fuel savings on the most direct route over the safety of its passengers) ultimately “the blame” goes to Russia for fanning the fires of the insurgency and ensuring it is supplied with sophisticated weapons and/or military personnel, and the insurgents for shooting without taking the time to know what they were aiming at.

amalric on July 18, 2014 at 5:32 PM

The difference between this time and the Korean airliner is: this looks like an accident; that was intentional; only one US (dual) citizen was aboard this flight; 65 or so were aboard the other flight; this was apparently a missile shot by a Ukrainian separatist (although with Russian support); the other was a missile shot by a Russian pilot; this was a plane that didn’t involve US air space; the other took off from the US.

jim56 on July 18, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Well taken. Those are very significant and compelling differences.

Burke on July 18, 2014 at 5:33 PM

America responds to airliner attack with sadness, not strength…and the Marxist is off to whore for more money.
Time for a beer summit with Vlad?

Krupnikas on July 18, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Don’t forget his most callous act during all of that-

Getting Congressional approval.

rogerb on July 18, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Including affirmative votes from the current and incumbent Secretaries of State.

And yet Ship would still happily vote for either one of them in 2016, despite their voting for “a lie” in 2002.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2014 at 5:37 PM

King Barack is hoping this will be “history” by the end of next week.

Then his press flack can intone “It happened such a long time ago!” when pressed if anything is being done about it.

GarandFan on July 18, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Whats with this Tom Shipley???? Is he afraid to answer my questions, he chose to ignore them as well with all other lefties do. I guess he is satisfied with what Obama does with his head in the sand and yet he is all aggressive towards the congress and all other political opponents. Tom, I gather that you favor a benevolent dictatorship,, I didn’t see you gripe about the president usurping more power, so can you answer?

garydt on July 18, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Don’t forget his most callous act during all of that-

Getting Congressional approval.

rogerb on July 18, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Including affirmative votes from the current and incumbent Secretaries of State.

And yet Ship would still happily vote for either one of them in 2016, despite their voting for “a lie” in 2002.

Del Dolemonte

rogerb and Del, thank you.

Can’t quite cope with defending W today from Sh!tley.

If facts worked with these bottom feeders, they wouldn’t be Progressive zombies.

When will this nightmare end?

Typicalwhitewoman on July 18, 2014 at 6:09 PM

Meanwhile, the United States weeps for those who lost their lives on Thursday and they left behind. That is fine, but those souls taken too early as the result of actions by an irresponsible and aggressive foreign power also deserve to be avenged.

Did we weep for the 300 victims of Iran Air Flight 655 in July 1988 after the USS Vincennes shot them down in an established international air corridor? I don’t recall that much weeping. That was what finally cemented our image as The Great Satan with the Persian regime. We paid reparations but never admitted error or apologized. They took it personally, not like they didn’t pretty much hate us already. Even while admiring our country in many ways. Iran’s people are attracted to America, always were.

I wonder if anyone was weeping when the Ukrainians shot down an Israeli airliner over the Black Sea about 12 years ago. At first they denied it, then admitted it and paid $200K a victim.

Another thing I keep seeing is this idea that shooting down airliners is some incredibly rare event. Well, it isn’t. An airliner has gotten shot down about every 1.5 years or more often.

Associated Press

July 17, 2014

http://www.thestate.com/2014/07/17/3569744/other-airliners-that-have-been.html

WASHINGTON — As unthinkable as shooting down an airliner with hundreds of passengers is, it has happened before. Among the most notable cases in recent decades were an Iranian plane shot down by the U.S. Navy and a South Korean airliner destroyed by a Russian fighter jet.

• Oct. 20, 1998: Rebels in eastern Congo shoot down a Congo Airlines passenger jet carrying 40 people. The plane crashes into a densely forested area just outside of Kindu, about 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) east of Kinshasa.

• Sept. 22, 1993 – Abkhazian rebels in Georgia shoot down a passenger plane, killing 80. A day earlier, 28 died when a Russian Tu-134 was hit by Abkhazian fire and crashed into the Black Sea.

• July 3, 1988: U.S. warship Vincennes shoots down an Iranian passenger plane over the Persian Gulf, mistaking it for a threatening warplane, during the war between Iraq and Iran. All 290 people aboard are killed. United States pays more than $ 130 million in a 1996 settlement that includes compensation for families of the victims.

• April 10, 1988: Afghan guerrillas shoot down a Soviet-built passenger jet, killing all 29 people aboard. Soviet television condemns the incident, especially after announcements that a negotiated end to the 10-year-old Afghan war is near.

• Sept. 1, 1983: A Soviet fighter jet shoots down a Korean Air Lines passenger jet en route from New York to Seoul, purportedly mistaking the craft for a spy plane as it wandered into Soviet airspace west of Sakhalin Island. All 269 people aboard are killed. The incident helped lead to the commercial release of GPS for civilian use, including aviation. The technology was developed by the U.S. military.

• April 20, 1978: An off-course South Korean jetliner carrying 110 people is attacked by a Soviet MiG fighter and is forced to crash land on a frozen lake near Murmansk, killing two passengers.

• Feb. 21, 1973: Libyan Airlines Flight 114 en route from Tripoli to Cairo goes off course, crossing the Suez Canal into airspace over the Israeli-held Sinai Desert. Israel claims the plane refuses to identify itself and two Air Force Phantom jets fire at it to force it to land. The aircraft goes out of control and crashes, killing 108 people. There are five survivors.

Research by Associated Press News Researcher Rhonda Shafner in New York.

Left out from this list was:

Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 (Oct. 4, 2001): The Russian flight from from Tel Aviv to the Russian city of Novosibirsk was over the Black Sea when it exploded, brought down by what investigators concluded was an errant missile fired during a Ukrainian military exercise. Ukrainian officials initially denied responsibility before then-President Leonid Kuchma acknowledged that a “tragic coincidence” had occurred, The New York Times reported at the time. The 78 who died included Russian émigrés to Israel, according to news reports.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/civilian-airplane-attacks- human-error-109064.html

Who supplied that missile to the Afghan Taliban to shoot down the Soviet liner with 30 deaths, even after their withdrawal was already negotiated? Where was the weeping?

Even more:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/bl…/2014/07/17/the-terrible- history-of-passenger-planes-getting-shot-out-of-the-sky/

What is more clear is that, if initial reports are true, this would be the deadliest incident of a civilian passenger plane being shot down in modern memory. Sadly, there is a long history of passenger craft being prey to overzealous military forces. In some instances, the causes of the disaster are still unresolved or shrouded in mystery. Here are some of the worst events.

El Al flight 402

A passenger flight headed from Vienna to Tel Aviv in July 1955 strayed into Bulgarian airspace, then firmly in the Eastern bloc, and was intercepted by two Bulgarian fighters who shot it down. The aircraft exploded in air, killing all 58 people aboard.

Libyan Arab Airlines 114

In 1973, a passenger aircraft headed to Cairo from the Libyan capital Tripoli got lost due to bad weather — a sandstorm — and malfunctioning equipment and drifted into Israeli airspace. Two Israeli Phantom fighter jets approached the plane, reportedly thinking it was an Egyptian MIG. Their missile strikes on the plane led it to crash land in the dunes of the Sinai desert. Only five of the 113 people on board survived.

Itavia Airlines flight 780

On June 27, 1980, a passenger plane left the northern Italian city of Bologna for Palermo, in Sicily, but it never reached its island destination. Wreckage of the plane was found in the Tyrrhenian Sea. There were no survivors among the 81 who boarded. The plane crash is still the subject of controversy and debate. Initial theories suggested a terrorist bomb blast on board, but subsequent investigations concluded the plane was likely caught in the midst of a dogfight between NATO fighter jets and Libyan MIGs. The inquiry into the crash said that investigations were deliberately obfuscated by members of the Italian military and secret service.

Korean Airlines flight 007

On Sept. 1, 1983, KAL 007, bound from New York to Seoul with a stopover in Anchorage, veered from its usual flight path into Soviet territory. Two Soviet fighter jets intercepted the plane and ordered it to change trajectory, but the passenger plane’s pilot reportedly did not respond. A missile strike sent the flight on a harrowing tailspin into the Sea of Japan. All 269 people on board perished, including 61 Americans.

The incident spiked Cold War intrigue and to this day is shrouded by conspiracy theories. The United States at the time time dubbed it a “massacre”; the Soviets accused the U.S. of hatching a deliberate provocation. Inquiries since the fall of the U.S.S.R. seem to point to the event being a sad misunderstanding.

Iran Air flight 655

The American missile cruiser USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane headed to Dubai over the Persian Gulf in 1988. The ship had been engaged in skirmishes with Iranian vessels and supposedly thought the slow-moving IR655 was an Iranian fighter jet. All 290 passengers on board perished–a tragedy, as WorldViews discussed here, which still echoes profoundly in Iran and shapes its views of the United States. The U.S. has never formally apologized for the attack on the plane, but in 1996 agreed a settlement of some $62 million to be paid to the families of the victims.

Lionair flight 602

In 1998, a flight from the restive Tamil northern heartland of Sri Lanka to the capital Colombo disappeared with all 48 passengers. Wreckage of the aircraft was only discovered 14 years later, in 2012, by a Sri Lankan navy vessel. It’s not certain how it crashed, but initial reports claimed the plane was shot down by the MANPAD batteries of the now defeated Tamil Tiger rebels.

Siberia Airlines 1812

A plane carrying passengers from Tel Aviv to the Siberian city of Novosibirsk plunged into the Black Sea on Oct. 4, 2001. All 78 people on board died. Mystery still surrounds the plane’s crash, but it’s likely it was brought down by an errant Ukrainian missile, though authorities in Kiev resolutely denied any involvement.

I think very little weeping has gone on over any of these air disasters. I think very few people have even heard of more than a handful of these tragic losses.

Toocon on July 18, 2014 at 6:22 PM

Whats with this Tom Shipley???? Is he afraid to answer my questions, he chose to ignore them as well with all other lefties do. I guess he is satisfied with what Obama does with his head in the sand and yet he is all aggressive towards the congress and all other political opponents. Tom, I gather that you favor a benevolent dictatorship,, I didn’t see you gripe about the president usurping more power, so can you answer?

garydt on July 18, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Shipley was a member of the distinguished Captain’s Quarters Clown Car Driving Team. His fellow drivers included sesquipedalian and bayam.

Over there he was well-known for wandering in, dropping a turd, and then immediately leaving.

Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2014 at 6:30 PM

Del, that Ned better or whatever his name is the same as those that you listed. When you state facts to them and you do it so well ,,,, they 99 per cent of the time never answer. Obviously then don’t like the facts.

garydt on July 18, 2014 at 6:43 PM

Just came to the thread and haven’t read all, so this may be redundant (or, just inane?)but, it seems to me that an aircraft traveling at a known altitude common to commercial aircraft, at a direction going away from the Ukraine (SE, I believe) and at a speed common to airliners would mark it, prima facie, as a civilian craft. Am I wrong?

vnvet on July 18, 2014 at 7:10 PM

Don’t forget his most callous act during all of that-

Getting Congressional approval.

rogerb on July 18, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Can you just imagine that?

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2014 at 7:23 PM

I’ll offer the difference between King Putt and RR …
After getting the copious warnings from the Intel folks that this sort of ‘fire control’ error could and would likely happen, Reagan would have deployed a wing of Wild Weasels (YGBSM) with orders to silence and destroy any crew serviced (Soviet) SAM systems in the eastern portion of Ukraine. Resulting in Putin quickly getting the message he pulls his Spenatz thugs out of Ukraine. Tomorrow.

You know what?
King Putt will not even demand the Ruskies turn over the black-box.
Right Tom, antisense, et, al?

Missilengr on July 18, 2014 at 7:51 PM

STRENGTH!

Tom_Shipley on July 18, 2014 at 3:24 PM

I hope you have the decency to zip Obama back up when you’re done.

307wolverine on July 18, 2014 at 9:33 PM

He said then that he did not want to get in front of the facts of the investigation into that incident

But he didn’t hesitate for an instant in having the sitting president of the United States interfere in an active murder trail. Of course that kid was black – where any of the people on the plane? If so, maybe then he would have something to say.

KMC1 on July 18, 2014 at 9:52 PM

Even after yesterday’s events, France is still planning to sell Russia several billion dollar advanced amphibious warships (called Mistrals). Please sign this Petition to the French Foreign Minister urging France not to sell Russia these weapons, particularly at a time when Russian is waging a covert war against Ukraine.

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Foreign_Minister_Laurent_Fabius_Stop_supplying_Russia_with_Mistralclass_warships/?fbss

newbyj99 on July 18, 2014 at 10:33 PM