Federal judge to IRS: Explain these “lost” e-mails, please … under oath

posted at 8:01 am on July 11, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

The excuse of “the hard drive ate my homework” flies just as well in federal court as it does in any middle school, it seems. After Judicial Watch filed a complaint over the lack of notice on their FOIA demand that the Lois Lerner e-mails no longer existed, a federal judge ordered the IRS to explain what happened within 30 days — and that explanation has to come under oath:

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the IRS to explain under oath how it lost a trove of emails to and from a central figure in the agency’s tea party controversy.

U.S. District Judge Emmet G. Sullivan gave the tax agency a month to submit the explanation in writing. Sullivan said he is also appointing a federal magistrate to see whether the lost emails can be obtained from other sources.

Sullivan issued the order as part of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by Judicial Watch, a conservative watchdog group. He said the IRS declaration must be signed, under oath, by the appropriate IRS official.

“I’m going to hold tight to that Aug. 10 declaration,” Sullivan said.

Sullivan also ordered the IRS to come up with some plan over the next 60 days to recover whatever data might still be accessible:

In addition to the written declaration, the judge also ordered that the government and Judicial Watch meet with Magistrate Judge John Facciola until Sept. 10 to discuss how the IRS can possibly obtain or recover the lost emails and documents from other sources. Judicial Watch is seeking information on what kinds of efforts the IRS has gone to in order to recover the lost information as well as how the agency is identifying additional sources, such as Lerner’s assistant, to try to find them.

Judicial Watch has had success using FOIA to get emails in other controversies, including the killings in Benghazi.

Following the judge’s order, Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton told reporters that it was “an extraordinary hearing” that shows Sullivan was “obviously interested on behalf of the public” in getting the IRS on the record about the emails. Fitton also said that appointing a magistrate as Sullivan did “rarely happens” in FOIA cases.

After the process with Facciola, Fitton said he is interested in limited discovery and then may ask for more testimony. The group is also looking at the new information concerning the use of in-office instant messaging as “another area of potential discussion with the government.”

House Oversight chair Darrell Issa called Lerner’s memo on the use of the OCS system and warning to keep from discussing certain topics on e-mail a “smoking gun” yesterday:

“[This is] a smoking gun, this is Lois Lerner clearly cautioning people not to say things on email and be delighted to find out that the local instant chat they have, this Microsoft product, wasn’t tracking what they said,” Issa, a California Republican said on Fox News. …

“I think the important thing is she was trying to make sure that on April 9 of 2013 that, in fact, her people weren’t being tracked and she was still using words like ‘caution,’” said Issa, who is chairman for the House Oversight Committee, which is in charge of the IRS investigation. “Why? She didn’t want an audit trail of what they’d been doing and what they were doing was targeting conservatives for their views, no question at all.”

During the interview, “Fox and Friends” host Brian Kilmeade read correspondence between Lerner and Maria Hooke, the director of business systems planning for the tax-exempt division. After asking Hooke if the agency’s internal instant message conversations, called OCS, were searchable, Hooke responded, “OCS messages are not set to automatically save, parties involved in an OCS conversation can copy and save the contents of their conversation on an email or file.”

“Perfect,” Lerner responded on April 9, 2013.

But is this memo from 2013 really a “smoking gun”? The Christian Science Monitor wonders about the timing, but still thinks it looks suspicious:

Pivotal events in the IRS affair had been unspooling long before the e-mail about instant messaging. Key revelations about who was telling whom to do what may stem from that earlier period.

Lerner’s computer had a hard-drive crash – Republicans say a suspiciously convenient malfunction – in June 2011. …

Although they stem from a later time period, the newly released e-mails are fresh evidence suggesting Lerner was interested in covering her division’s tracks. And it’s worth noting that this particular e-mail exchange took place just as the Treasury’s Inspector General was preparing a damaging report. April 9, the day of the e-mails, was barely four weeks from when Lerner first publicly admitted – ahead of the Inspector General’s report – that inappropriate behavior had occurred.

She was soon placed on administrative leave. She retired later in 2013 and has used the Fifth Amendment to avoid answering questions from House Republicans.

The responses from the IRS have been so disingenuous, and in Lerner’s case so uncooperative, that they’ve long since ceased to deserve the benefit of the doubt. Let’s also not forget that Lerner’s “apology” in May 2013 was a staged event, part of a strategy to minimize the more serious allegations from the initial Inspector General report. The IRS has been attempting to manipulate public reaction literally from Day One of this scandal.

This order from a federal judge escalates the stakes significantly in that effort. The AP points out that previous IRS testimony has come under oath, but that was before Congress, and Congress has limited power to hold witnesses accountable without cooperation from the Department of Justice. A federal judge can level contempt charges that can keep uncooperative witnesses in jail, sometimes indefinitely, and perjury in federal court will be a lot more difficult for the DoJ to ignore than perjured testimony before Congress.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

The excuse of “the hard drive ate my homework” flies just as well in federal court as it does in any middle school, it seems.

The problem for the IRS has been that after every Congressional tesitimony where officials have whined about how much they’ve spent, how much time they’ve devoted, and how robust the search has been…….. something new pops up that they have sworn doesn’t exist.

But I do think it different when the paper trail shows that Lerner was conspiring to keep Congress in the dark. And that this latest find comes literally over a year when the IRS was first asked for all relevant e-mails.

Happy Nomad on July 11, 2014 at 8:09 AM

Now we will see…but, there is always the Presidential Pardon to soften any blow…

Aug 10 will be an interesting day…

right2bright on July 11, 2014 at 8:12 AM

and perjury in federal court will be a lot more difficult for the DoJ to ignore than perjured testimony before Congress.

Naivity at its best.

It will be ignored. Period.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the judge is suspended for his impunity.

TwinkietheKid on July 11, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Aug 10 will be an interesting day…

right2bright on July 11, 2014 at 8:12 AM

My prediction is that it will not be an interesting day, just more of the same. Some “tech guy” from the IRS will inform the judge that dillegence requires more time before any definitive statement can be made.

Happy Nomad on July 11, 2014 at 8:14 AM

A pardon won’t cover being jailed for contempt.

SunSword on July 11, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Naivity at its best.

It will be ignored. Period.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the judge is suspended for his impunity.

TwinkietheKid on July 11, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Sadly, you’re right. We need a justice dept. to investigate the justice dept.

jmtham156 on July 11, 2014 at 8:17 AM

Why would ANY government official be concerned that the official business they do as a public servant…public servant HAHAHAHHA!…would be discoverable later, that’s the question here.

The IRS isn’t an intelligence agency, they’re tax collection, what possible national security implications would be involved with their internal communications. This is all bullshiite and we’re being swarmed by Nazis who have big big plans for us.

Bishop on July 11, 2014 at 8:20 AM

Now we will see…but, there is always the Presidential Pardon to soften any blow…

Aug 10 will be an interesting day…

right2bright on July 11, 2014 at 8:12 AM

Predicted response from the IRS:

Every storage medium of the e-mail system from that time period was pulverized after being magnetically destroyed long before any official order to turn over those e-mails. At the same time that happened, every print-out of every e-mail from that time period was shredded, burned and turned into recycled paper. Therefore, no copies of those e-mails exist and no copies can be recreated from our systems.

Oh yeah, here’s our signed Presidential pardons protecting us from any contempt of court citation. Now, prepare to be audited and imprisoned.

Steve Eggleston on July 11, 2014 at 8:22 AM

“The recycled memos were then burned, the ashes mixed into a concrete slab, the concrete buried in a hole, and the hole was loaded onto a Saturn V rocket and fired into the Sun.

Per an IRS disposal protocol which was instituted one day before the investigation began, of course. And if you want records of that new protocol being approved we suggest you visit Sol.”

Bishop on July 11, 2014 at 8:26 AM

Under oath is a joke anymore, doesn’t anyone voted into an office right down to the sheriffs take an oath of office which has obeying the Constitution and defending it? What makes these Judges think taking an oath will change anything?

mixplix on July 11, 2014 at 8:28 AM

After asking Hooke if the agency’s internal instant message conversations, called OCS, were searchable, Hooke responded, “OCS messages are not set to automatically save, parties involved in an OCS conversation can copy and save the contents of their conversation on an email or file.”

“Perfect,” Lerner responded on April 9, 2013.

verbalduece to be along shortly to explain that this is just another in a long line of coincidences.

That Lerner was probably just planning a surprise party for her boss and didn’t want it to get out.

But is this memo from 2013 really a “smoking gun”? The Christian Science Monitor wonders about the timing, but still thinks it looks suspicious:

The Christian Science Monitor would also question the timing of the apparent suicide by 3 shots to the back of the head of the mob informant a week before he was to testify.

HumpBot Salvation on July 11, 2014 at 8:31 AM

One thing is for sure President Obama is no dummy. After the congressional hearings start to get close to finding out about how Obama regime went after conservatives they move it to a court because of a so called government watch dog group. Guess what, Judge Sullivan who like the Head of the IRS Commissioner John Koskinen turns out to be a big time Obama fan and voted for him. So you know this isn’t going anywhere and will give more time to make sure evidence is destroyed. You have to hand it to Obama he knows how to cover his butt. So if you are expecting anything out of this you are just as big an idiot as Obama thinks you are.

pwb on July 11, 2014 at 8:32 AM

Predicted response from the IRS:

Every storage medium of the e-mail system from that time period was pulverized after being magnetically destroyed long before any official order to turn over those e-mails. At the same time that happened, every print-out of every e-mail from that time period was shredded, burned and turned into recycled paper. Therefore, no copies of those e-mails exist and no copies can be recreated from our systems.

Oh yeah, here’s our signed Presidential pardons protecting us from any contempt of court citation. Now, prepare to be audited and imprisoned.

Steve Eggleston on July 11, 2014 at 8:22 AM

That’s far too elegant a response. My guess is that it will be more along the lines of “bite me.”

Happy Nomad on July 11, 2014 at 8:35 AM

I know where they are! They went down with the Malaysian plane.

crankyoldlady on July 11, 2014 at 8:36 AM

“OCS messages are not set to automatically save, parties involved in an OCS conversation can copy and save the contents of their conversation on an email or file.”

“Perfect,” Lerner responded on April 9, 2013.

IOW, “I don’t have to track those down to destroy too, just those emails we already took care of.”

Effay5 on July 11, 2014 at 8:37 AM

A federal judge can level contempt charges that can keep uncooperative witnesses in jail, sometimes indefinitely, and perjury in federal court will be a lot more difficult for the DoJ to ignore than perjured testimony before Congress.

But ignore it they will under the current corrupt system.

NotCoach on July 11, 2014 at 8:37 AM

“You didn’t build that!!!!!”

Actually, we did….and we made it fault tolerant…

But somehow…

We The People have become fault tolerant…..

Electrongod on July 11, 2014 at 8:38 AM

If you want laser-like focus from this president, you’ll finally get it as they work round the clock and desperately try to conceal the obvious and numerous links between Lerner, the IRS and the White House.

jangle12 on July 11, 2014 at 8:45 AM

But ignore it they will under the current corrupt system.

NotCoach on July 11, 2014 at 8:37 AM

I’ve got dibs on Ignore We Much on the next open registration.

HumpBot Salvation on July 11, 2014 at 8:45 AM

Federal judge to IRS: Explain these “lost” e-mails, please … under oath”

IRS (under oath): “I respectfully answer to refuse on incriminate that it might tend to grounds me.”

MaiDee on July 11, 2014 at 9:01 AM

Not much to add to my comment about this from yesterdays thread. Jail her!

Bmore on July 11, 2014 at 9:05 AM

Lot of skeptics, but I really do think we’ve turned the corner here.

As I see it, this thing is proceeding along three, maybe four, tracks. First, you have the House committee inquiries, which have yielded little and are ultimately stymied by DOJ.

Second, you have this Judicial Watch FOIA inquiry, which had received no coverage at all. And because JW can’t be cast as some GOP or Koch brothers front group, its inquiry has legs. I think the August 10 matter will require the IRS to tell the truth or expect perjury prosecutions when lies are uncovered. Just as important is the September 10 matter. The judge didn’t just allow JW to engage in a back and forth with the IRS to find the emails, he appointed a magistrate to get in the guts with these two sides. It allows JW to pose innumerable ways and alternatives to filling in the gaps. And the minute the IRS stonewalls, the magistrate is right there to push them. This suggests to me that the judge appreciates the need to fill in the gaps and wants them filled.

Third and fourth, you have two private cases–True the Vote and other parties represented by the goddess Cleta Mitchell and some parties in a case being prosecuted by Jay Sekulow. True the Vote is in court today trying to get court authorization for a forensic computer analyst to go into the IRS systems to get to the bottom of these lost emails. It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

As a practical matter, I don’t believe we’ll find some file in the WH outlining the plan to target conservatives. But the effort was clearly undertaken in the IRS and was probably encouraged by someone in the WH who’d ultimately take the fall. I think there was some interagency coordination too.

It’s taken awhile, but I think the JW effort and the two private cases are going to lead somewhere. And the judges, even if Obama appointees, are not going to step in to help the IRS.

BuckeyeSam on July 11, 2014 at 9:07 AM

A month?!

Akzed on July 11, 2014 at 9:12 AM

I love the photo of the dog eating the homework. It makes me chuckle every time I see it.

307wolverine on July 11, 2014 at 9:12 AM

It’s taken awhile, but I think the JW effort and the two private cases are going to lead somewhere. And the judges, even if Obama appointees, are not going to step in to help the IRS.

BuckeyeSam on July 11, 2014 at 9:07 AM

I agree. Everyone needs to remember that it took over 2 years for Watergate to develop and for Nixon to resign. And that was with a press that was not friendly to him.

Johnnyreb on July 11, 2014 at 9:29 AM

What cracks me up about the judge ordering them to come up with a plan to recover the data, is that after *all* this time, the IRS still hasn’t bothered to come up with a plan to recover the data. But they keep cashing paychecks, no doubt.

Also, my experience is that one does *not* want to mess with a federal judge by playing games, no matter who the judge is or their political leanings.

Lance Corvette on July 11, 2014 at 9:31 AM

The IRS needs to be torn apart down to the last man.

ConstantineXI on July 11, 2014 at 9:41 AM

“OCS messages are not set to automatically save, parties involved in an OCS conversation can copy and save the contents of their conversation on an email or file.”

“Perfect,” Lerner responded on April 9, 2013.

Why do I imagine her voice sounding like Mr Burns from the Simpson’s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irtsm7mLG5k

HumpBot Salvation on July 11, 2014 at 9:41 AM

Also, my experience is that one does *not* want to mess with a federal judge by playing games, no matter who the judge is or their political leanings.

Lance Corvette on July 11, 2014 at 9:31 AM

This is very true because so many of them (especially the liberal ones) have a god complex, and why not when they are granted pretty much absolute power. Defying them is like slapping them in the face, denying them the god head, they won’t react well to that.

Usually democrats like to go judge shopping to make cases go away, but this scandal is too large for that.

ConstantineXI on July 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

Should have subpoenaed her iPad, Iphone, and laptop from the get-go. Now she’s had more than enough time to destroy the evidence.

This is just a show. In the end, nothing will be done.

If the GOP were serious, they would indict everyone from Lerner to Obama when they gain control of the White house in 2016. I doubt there will be any indictments. Same goes for Benghazi, Solynrda, Fast and Furious. In the end, no one is held accountable.

nazo311 on July 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM

If the GOP were serious, they would indict everyone from Lerner to Obama when they gain control of the White house in 2016. I doubt there will be any indictments. Same goes for Benghazi, Solynrda, Fast and Furious. In the end, no one is held accountable.

nazo311 on July 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM

The establishment is still playing this like it’s a game. It is not. We are literally one Supreme Court nominee away from having complete national socialism imposed on us. One more Wide Latina on the bench away from elections never mattering again.

We need to fight and we need to fight DIRTY.

ConstantineXI on July 11, 2014 at 9:50 AM

U.S. District Judge Emmet G. Sullivan

“Activist Judge!”

/libfreeanddie

Slight problem:

wiki

On June 16, 1994, Judge Sullivan was appointed by President Bill Clinton to serve as United States District Judge for the District of Columbia.

“D’OH!”

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

Like football, our two party system has both teams playing the same sport while we pay big bucks to watch the game.

Don L on July 11, 2014 at 9:52 AM

One of two possible reactions to this order: they either straight up lie, in which case they rally the press in an all-out ‘see, we told you this was a ginned up witch hunt by the right’; or, they claim executive privilege which the press will ignore.

BKeyser on July 11, 2014 at 9:53 AM

Presidential pardons have one limitation, they cannot be used after the sitting President leaves the office. Solution: Just schedule the final hearing one day after inauguration, and hope that whatever Democrat or RINO takes office will be more concerned with his (or her) image, and less with protecting Ogabe.

Rix on July 11, 2014 at 9:59 AM

A month?!

Akzed

I know, right?

xblade on July 11, 2014 at 10:15 AM

Remember Klinton’s amazing performance with the federal grand jury?
The smirking, the slippery non-responses?
Well, get ready for a whole new level of in your face lying.

Or, more likely, stone-faced refusal to say a thing.

Tard on July 11, 2014 at 10:31 AM

U.S. District Judge Emmet G. Sullivan

“Activist Judge!”

/libfreeanddie

Slight problem:

wiki

On June 16, 1994, Judge Sullivan was appointed by President Bill Clinton to serve as United States District Judge for the District of Columbia.

“D’OH!”

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

Don’t worry… Hillary will pretend Sullivan’s a Teabagger and chastise him for judicial activism.

blammm on July 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

…left side?

JugEarsButtHurt on July 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

So he may be impartial. Sorta. He’s probably not a FOO.

dogsoldier on July 11, 2014 at 10:42 AM

“[This is] a smoking gun, this is Lois Lerner clearly cautioning people not to say things on email –
Issa

This is a great example of how conspiracies – once suggested – have no problem finding ‘supportive evidence’.
Maybe Lerner was concerned that folks might talk about her nefarious top secret plan to destroy the Tea Party and the GOP – and she needed to be sure that all her co-conspirators were up to speed on proper code words – and that direct conversations about her ‘PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA’ would only be had during the monthly Coven held in the hills of Virginia.

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

And right on schedule, a troll goes to bat for the IRS.

CurtZHP on July 11, 2014 at 10:55 AM

Interesting Judicial Watch seems to get more done.

Naivity at its best.

It will be ignored. Period.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the judge is suspended for his impunity.

TwinkietheKid on July 11, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Now that would be impeachable.

Maybe Lerner was concerned that folks might talk about her nefarious top secret plan to destroy the Tea Party and the GOP – and she needed to be sure that all her co-conspirators were up to speed on proper code words – and that direct conversations about her ‘PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA’ would only be had during the monthly Coven held in the hills of Virginia.

I just had a vision of Lerner and Moochelle dancing nude around a bonfire.

Don’t say things like that!

formwiz on July 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

This is interesting, although it isn’t going to go anywhere – just more grandstanding:

Republican Congressman Files For Lois Lerner’s Arrest

climbnjump on July 11, 2014 at 11:00 AM

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

Maybe she accidentally wrote “let’s stick it in these teabaggers azzes and get them all arrested” and was embarrassed that she hadn’t suggested actually killing them.

VegasRick on July 11, 2014 at 11:04 AM

We need to fight and we need to fight DIRTY.
ConstantineXI on July 11, 2014 at 9:50 AM

I have been saying this all along, in dealing with with the dem crime syndicate. Know the rules of the game, and play by them, hard. We don’t have to be dirty though. Find the truth and beat them mercilessly with it. But think as deviously as they do. Boehner’s whining about Obama not taking responsibility is a telling example of his cluelessness of what kind of game is being played. And he and McGoggles inability to fight back, much less take the offensive illustrates why the leadership must be wrested from them. Am I actually supposed to believe the Internet is forever except for Lois Lerner and the magic six other computer crashers? They are out there. Throw Lois in the house pokey. Ratchet up the pressure on the administration across the board. Flood their zone for a change. Play Hard.

Cliff by the Ford on July 11, 2014 at 11:08 AM

This Federal Judge will soon do a complete 180 and abruptly dismiss this lawsuit. Why? Because, if Obama’s people can turn a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, they can turn a Federal Judge just as easily. Make no mistake about it. It’s the Chicago way!

Mahdi on July 11, 2014 at 11:09 AM

Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

I’m sure he would if Lerner wasn’t pleading the 5th for some strange reason.

sentinelrules on July 11, 2014 at 11:10 AM

Oh dear God….hold on, give me 10 minutes.

libfreeordie on August 21, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Schadenfreude on July 11, 2014 at 11:14 AM

Finally. An actual scandal.

libfreeordie on May 19, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Schadenfreude on July 11, 2014 at 11:14 AM

Just give it a rest with the constant grievance politics.

libfreeordie on May 15, 2014 at 8:32 AM

Schadenfreude on July 11, 2014 at 11:15 AM

Why play the race card (with the judge)?

libfreeordie on May 4, 2014 at 11:40 PM

Schadenfreude on July 11, 2014 at 11:16 AM

Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

You’re such a hackish light bulb.

Schadenfreude on July 11, 2014 at 11:16 AM

right2bright on July 11, 2014 at 8:12 AM

I could care less if Obama pardons Lerner, or the entire IRS, as long as 1. they lose their jobs, 2. he loses his and 3. this does what it should and at least destroys him publicly, even if he gets a pardon from President Joe and serves no time for it.

What concerns me is saving the country, not putting asses behind bars.

PJ Emeritus on July 11, 2014 at 11:18 AM

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

Maybe she accidentally wrote “let’s stick it in these teabaggers azzes and get them all arrested” and was embarrassed that she hadn’t suggested actually killing them.

VegasRick on July 11, 2014 at 11:04 AM

Oh man…if only she hadn’t destroyed that email.
But Issa will find it…he must!
Maybe some printouts? But she lives near a store that sells matches…clearly evidence that she burned a lot of those.
These criminals are sooooo clever.
/

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:19 AM

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

Equipment provided at taxpayer expensive for doing government work is not to be used for “private communication.” If Lois Lerner needed to discuss a matter privately, she should have done it on her own time with her own d@mn computer.

CJ on July 11, 2014 at 11:24 AM

Almost everyone in Congress has a foundation that they have established. Most seem to be small, local and do good things as intended. Some look a bit strained. The questionable ones have been granted tax exempt status by or during Lois Learn stay at the IRS. All were established a few years of 1998. Maybe it is time to look at this as a RICO investigation. That might explain the missing E-Mails and why Learner and a few others maybe hiding their get out of jail free card just in case.

Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation
established 2001
Harry Reid Searchlight Foundation
established 1998
Paul And Nancy Pelosi Charitable Foundation
established 1992

These three foundation are of very, very high dollar value and of questionable purpose.

The dots are starting to fit together. Combined the control or influence Trillions of Dollars.

Maybe the IRS Statement should be
“Protect our keepers and Attach their Enemies”.

jpcpt03 on July 11, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Rule #1 – A hard drive crash doesn’t mean you loose your emails. When you install the new hard drive/computer to your email account, it will download all of those previous emails from the server. Instantly the new hard drive/computer has everything the old one did.

Tater Salad on July 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM

I just had a vision of Lerner and Moochelle dancing nude around a bonfire.

Don’t say things like that!

formwiz on July 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

We’ll thank you for not sharing comments like that next time. Oh, the images! Oh, my aching head!

CJ on July 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

You really are a special little snowflake, aren’t you?

PJ Emeritus on July 11, 2014 at 11:31 AM

Equipment provided at taxpayer expensive for doing government work is not to be used for “private communication.” If Lois Lerner needed to discuss a matter privately, she should have done it on her own time with her own d@mn computer.

CJ on July 11, 2014 at 11:24 AM

Well yes.
I agree.
But the Issa’s etc. accusations & assumptions & suspicions run much much deeper and darker than just that.
We’re talking maniacal laugh stuff.

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:32 AM

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

You really are a special little snowflake, aren’t you?

PJ Emeritus on July 11, 2014 at 11:31 AM

Aren’t we all…is there any other kind?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:33 AM

We’ll thank you for not sharing comments like that next time. Oh, the images! Oh, my aching head!

CJ on July 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM

You really need a filter to defend yourself with. I can read it and think nothing of it. I can probably even type it out and not have my mind twist towards that.

astonerii on July 11, 2014 at 11:34 AM

I just had a vision of Lerner and Moochelle dancing nude around a bonfire.

Don’t say things like that!

formwiz on July 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Ok – I apologize for that.

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:37 AM

a federal judge ordered the IRS to explain what happened within 30 days — and that explanation has to come under oath

Very good, very good…now, if someone will explain to me how one administers an oath to an agency of the federal government or threatens a bureaucracy with imprisonment, I’ll be able to move on.

jbspry on July 11, 2014 at 11:37 AM

‘True the Vote’ gets their court hearing on pretty much the same issue / request today. I suspect that the judge hearing that case will rule in a similar manner – giving the IRS about 30 days (this is government time, not the private sector) to respond more intelligently under oath to the question that they willfully destroyed / spoiled evidence as part of a cover-up.

Steve Eggleston on July 11, 2014 at 8:22 AM

Steve’s on the mark in terms of the IRS response. They have no problem demonstrating their arrogance and contempt towards Congress, and I believe they will do the same to both DC judges even with the higher risk of being held in criminal contempt. They still need the DoJ to prosecute – and anyone targeted will be first in line to get Presidential pardon’s.

This Administration learned VERY WELL the lessons from Watergate.

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

So he may be impartial. Sorta. He’s probably not a FOO.

dogsoldier on July 11, 2014 at 10:42 AM

According to his wiki entry he was previously appointed to a lower court by the President before Clinton.

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 11:42 AM

jbspry on July 11, 2014 at 11:37 AM

The IRS has to designate an individual to attest, under oath, what happened and what the Agency did to comply with the requirements to protect evidence regarding the JW and True the Vote legal actions.

It’s that individual who will be held accountable for any perjury or misstatements. It’s also that individual who is next in line after Lerner, Flax, Miller, and the others for a Presidential pardon.

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM

It should have become obvious by now that legally this is going nowhere. DOJ/Eric Holder is completely corrupt. And without legal force Obama and his gang will just run out the clock.

There is no court other than SCOTUS that has the slightest chance of having its orders obeyed by Obama. And even they will be defied if the stakes are high enough. It will remain just a story ignored by the MSM.

bluesdoc70 on July 11, 2014 at 12:04 PM

Should have subpoenaed her iPad, Iphone, and laptop from the get-go. Now she’s had more than enough time to destroy the evidence.
nazo311 on July 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM

She had a Blackberry. Any chance any of these emails are with AT&T or Verizon? On the Blackberry server?

cptacek on July 11, 2014 at 12:09 PM

QUESTION AUTHORITY
 
LEAVE THE IRS ALONE!!!

rogerb on July 11, 2014 at 12:25 PM

I hope the lamestream media does not report on this, because we don’t want to see Ogabe get really mad when he reads about it in the newspaper.

NOMOBO on July 11, 2014 at 12:29 PM

Well yes.
I agree.
But the Issa’s etc. accusations & assumptions & suspicions run much much deeper and darker than just that.
We’re talking maniacal laugh stuff.

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:32 AM

If you agree then you don’t have to get to maniacal laughter.

The data generated by each public employee on government systems is government data and is to be held for the people of the Nation who pay for it. There are multiple directives to store, archive and keep such data not just within the IRS, not just as a matter of law passed by Congress, but also as a matter for the National Archives which is the final repository of all such data.

In not following the statutes, regulations and internal requirements to store, hold and archive that data, the IRS is showing wanton disregard for the law, policy and proper internal auditing and accountability.

If they are doing that with internal emails, then what is going on with citizen information they are entrusted with? It has all those same requirements on it, as well.

Maniacal laughter?

How about outrage? If they can’t even keep simple internal emails as they are required to do, then how can they be trusted with anything more than that? They have demonstrated blatant disregard for the law and the understanding that they serve the public, and are now trying to hand-wave away that understanding. Is this the sort of behavior you would condone from ANY federal agency, not to speak of the IRS?

And as this was done with full knowledge of multiple layers of the agency, then you don’t have to wave a conspiracy into existence: it is right there before your eyes and they are ADMITTING IT. Right before your very eyes they are telling you this is what they are doing as a concerted effort from multiple levels of the agency. That is horrific behavior and outrageous behavior.

Yet you complain about Issa and maniacal laughter. What about what they say and do openly? Isn’t that, alone, enough to warrant investigations and an intervention to STOP these procedures and find out what the agency HAS in the way of data, assets and make the personnel accountable? How about a full data audit of the IRS? Because if their internal controls are so lax here, then why should they expect to have ANY TRUST with other information under similar controls? They have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted openly, so why should they have the benefit of any doubt at all?

ajacksonian on July 11, 2014 at 12:36 PM

A month is foolish. How about tomorrow by noon?

mimi1220 on July 11, 2014 at 12:40 PM

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

You really do have to open your mouth to see.

RickB on July 11, 2014 at 12:41 PM

A federal judge can level contempt charges that can keep uncooperative witnesses in jail, sometimes indefinitely, and perjury in federal court will be a lot more difficult for the DoJ to ignore than perjured testimony before Congress.

I have complete confidence in the capacity of Eric Holder and his corrupt tools in the DOJ to ignore any and all crimes committed by the rest of Obama’s corrupt tools.

If a federal judge wants some IRS scum prosecuted for perjury he’ll have to appoint a special prosecutor himself.

novaculus on July 11, 2014 at 12:46 PM

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:32 AM

At some point it would be nice to see you seriously respond to ajacksonian. My thinking is you can’t or won’t.

Bmore on July 11, 2014 at 12:51 PM

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:32 AM

At some point it would be nice to see you seriously respond to ajacksonian. My thinking is you can’t or won’t.

Bmore on July 11, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Seconded….or should it be, double dare ya?

But deep down, I think Bmore is right.

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 1:15 PM

verbalduece to be along shortly to explain that this is just another in a long line of coincidences.

That Lerner was probably just planning a surprise party for her boss and didn’t want it to get out.

HumpBot Salvation on July 11, 2014 at 8:31 AM

And right on cue.

This is a great example of how conspiracies – once suggested – have no problem finding ‘supportive evidence’.
Maybe Lerner was concerned that folks might talk about her nefarious top secret plan to destroy the Tea Party and the GOP – and she needed to be sure that all her co-conspirators were up to speed on proper code words – and that direct conversations about her ‘PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA’ would only be had during the monthly Coven held in the hills of Virginia.

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

So predictable and so foolish. You really are a caricature.

Yes, Lerner inquiring directly whether a messaging system is being archived (after she was requested to turn over email communications) would lead us to believe that Lois only concern that her associates are being mindful of their private conversations. Only if you’re an idiot.

And by the way, there are no private conversations allowed for the IRS who is at the service of the US taxpayer. Lerner’s stunt to circumvent the requirements of emails being archived is easy to see by all…well except those with IQ’s of stumps.

And when are you going to answer ajacksonian?

HumpBot Salvation on July 11, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Verbie, yes you are special. Short-bus style.

Closet Optimist on July 11, 2014 at 3:10 PM

“The recycled memos were then burned, the ashes mixed into a concrete slab, the concrete buried in a hole, and the hole was loaded onto a Saturn V rocket and fired into the Sun.

Bishop on July 11, 2014 at 8:26 AM

Just to be sure, the Obama administration has plans to shrink the sun into a black hole, so nothing can escape.

To be on the safe side, Obama is personally re-writing the laws of physics so nothing can escape the black hole due to Hawking radiation.

Wile E. Obama, super-genius.

MichaelGabriel on July 11, 2014 at 3:11 PM

These criminals are sooooo clever.
/

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:19 AM

Not really. Lerner violated IRS regulations regarding keeping backups of communications. All emails pulled off the server were to be printed and kept as paper files.

SHE..DID..NOT..FOLLOW..THE..REGULATIONS..OF..HER..OWN..DEPARTMENT

And emails are sent between multiple parties. Simply pull all email correspondence with Lerner from all other email logs.

dominigan on July 11, 2014 at 3:14 PM

All the focus on Lerner is good, but she is far from the only one involved. Steve Miller and his Chief of Staff were in it up to their eyeballs (Miller was the one person “let go” from Acting Commissioner, but he was going to retire two months later anyway).

And former IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman visited the White House over 150 times in 18 months, about 1.6 times per week, but under oath could not recall who he met with OR what was discussed on ANY of those visits.

Really? Can’t remember who he met at the White House? There is gold in them thar hills.

Adjoran on July 11, 2014 at 3:46 PM

Sadly, you’re right. We need a justice dept. to investigate the justice dept.
jmtham156 on July 11, 2014 at 8:17 AM

That’s why we have sovereign states. Any state AG should be able to sue or persecute on behalf of their state’s citizens.

Nutstuyu on July 11, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Lerner is toast and she knows it (and always has), and so does Issa.

A lyric for Lerner:

Do your demons, do they ever let you go…? You’ve been left on you’re own. You’re a rainbow in the dark. No sign of the morning coming…

You’re not next Holder, but you are in line, you SOB.

ahander on July 11, 2014 at 4:15 PM

I just had a vision of Lerner and Moochelle dancing nude around a bonfire.
Don’t say things like that!
formwiz on July 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Weird I just thought it was Palpatine and Chewbacca in a trailer for the new Star Wars

Nutstuyu on July 11, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Any state AG should be able to sue or persecute on behalf of their state’s citizens.

Nutstuyu on July 11, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Freudian slip I’m guessing but hey I’m down with it. Let’s persecute them all! Scourge them too!

Oldnuke on July 11, 2014 at 4:26 PM

#noahcott

No page views, no comments.

Just sayin’.

Midas on July 11, 2014 at 4:31 PM

Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

Public Servants doing public business on public dime. There should be NOTHING private about communications in this office. EVERYTHING should be discoverable…IT IS THE LAW!

bigGwillie on July 11, 2014 at 4:31 PM

These criminals are sooooo clever.
/

verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 11:19 AM

They don’t have to be “clever.” They just need a bunch of sycophants like you, that are…well…not so clever.

bigGwillie on July 11, 2014 at 4:40 PM

This is a great example of how conspiracies – once suggested – have no problem finding ‘supportive evidence’.
Maybe Lerner was concerned that folks might talk about her nefarious top secret plan to destroy the Tea Party and the GOP – and she needed to be sure that all her co-conspirators were up to speed on proper code words – and that direct conversations about her ‘PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA’ would only be had during the monthly Coven held in the hills of Virginia.
Or maybe she was making a more innocuous remark that folks should be mindful of what they said as it was private communication.
Gee, ya think Issa ever considers the same for his communications?
verbaluce on July 11, 2014 at 10:52 AM

[hmmm...what's this...a bullhorn...]

“Property of A. Sharpton”

[switches bullhorn on...dials volume to "11"...presses trigger...turns left...]

VERBALUCE…STEP AWAY FROM THE BONG…I REPEAT…STEP…AWAY…FROM…THE…BONG…

Newtie and the Beauty on July 11, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Ooooh…

Second federal judge tells IRS to explain lost Lerner emails

But at a hearing examining a lawsuit against the IRS by conservative group True the Vote, [Judge Reggie] Walton said he wants to know what happened to Lerner’s hard drive, which allegedly was recycled. He asked for an affidavit from those involved in handling the crashed drive.

Newtie and the Beauty on July 11, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Ooooh…

Second federal judge tells IRS to explain lost Lerner emails

But at a hearing examining a lawsuit against the IRS by conservative group True the Vote, [Judge Reggie] Walton said he wants to know what happened to Lerner’s hard drive, which allegedly was recycled. He asked for an affidavit from those involved in handling the crashed drive.

Newtie and the Beauty on July 11, 2014 at 4:46 PM

They’re still giving the IRS too long to work something out. Should have their butts in court Monday.

Midas on July 11, 2014 at 4:48 PM

I keep seeing the post count increase, yet no Verbie to respond to ajacksonian’s basic and polite questions….

…apparently it’s both can’t and won’t. What’s the definition of a troll again?

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 4:48 PM

They’re still giving the IRS too long to work something out. Should have their butts in court Monday.

Midas on July 11, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Even with 30 days, the IRS is not going to be able to fundamentally change their cockamamie story, nor offer any real proof that they did not willfully spoil / destroy / lose evidence that should have been protected, clearly violated the Federal Records Act, and deliberately neglected to inform the courts or the plaintiffs of the lost / spoiled / destroyed evidence.

The question I have is, in the wake of the 30 days, will there be a ‘John Dean’ from within the IRS finally willing to step forward and tell the truth?

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Produce the emails, or what, exactly?

bour3 on July 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Ooooh…

Second federal judge tells IRS to explain lost Lerner emails

But at a hearing examining a lawsuit against the IRS by conservative group True the Vote, [Judge Reggie] Walton said he wants to know what happened to Lerner’s hard drive, which allegedly was recycled. He asked for an affidavit from those involved in handling the crashed drive.

Newtie and the Beauty on July 11, 2014 at 4:46 PM

This Activist Judge was appointed by Pappy Bush. Will the Left smear him due to his skin color?

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 5:27 PM

This Activist Judge was appointed by Pappy Bush. Will the Left smear him due to his skin color?

Del Dolemonte on July 11, 2014 at 5:27 PM

Of course, he’s as white as Clarence Thomas.

— Harry Reid

HumpBot Salvation on July 11, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Produce the emails, or what, exactly?

bour3 on July 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Under the law, not withstanding the Federal Records Act, the IRS had an obligation when notified of the lawsuits by True the Vote and Judicial Watch as well as the Congressional oversight investigations, to secure, protect, and maintain all related correspondence to those actions. If any of the requested materials were unavailable – via loss or destruction, the IRS also had a legal obligation to inform the investigators, court, and plaintiff’s at the earliest knowledge of problems with the requested materials.

The IRS has clearly neglected to inform the investigators, courts, and plaintiff’s of problems with the materials at their earliest opportunity. It is also, dependent on the explanations forthcoming under oath, possible that the IRS will be found to have failed to exercise all efforts to protect, secure, and maintain the related correspondence…and may have in fact directly contributed to the spoilage of this evidence.

While the spoilage of this evidence has severely limited the plaintiffs and congressional investigators linking the deliberate targeting of conservative political organizations by the IRS to a coordinated effort with the White House (we do know that the IRS did work with Treasury, the FEC, and the DoJ – breaking some additional laws), the evidence (and spoiled evidence) can be seen by the Courts as proof of an illegal cover-up undertaken by at least the 6 senior IRS officials named as part of their actions to target conservative groups.

This could result in the victory for True the Vote and Judicial Watch in their legal actions as well as opening up additional cases for every single one of the targeted conservative groups. It could also result in multiple indictments for those 6 for their violations of the Federal Records Act, IRS privacy statutes, Obstruction of Justice, Abuse of Power, and Perjury.

Faced with charges, it’s possible one of the six might turn ‘John Dean’ and explain the hundreds of visits to the WH and the links of the IRS targeting to the WH political actions against Citizens United and conservative action groups for the 2012 election.

The only thing made far more difficult from the spoilage / destruction of evidence are compromising links to the White House – either via the political side of the WH or the WH Counsel’s office. We know links exist – but not if they were illegal or abuses of power.

Courts and juries, can, without the evidence and an adequate explanation, however legally assume greater linkage via circumstantial evidence.

These private cases will and are advancing things far more than the Congressional investigations – or the non-existent Administration investigations.

There are people very worried about how the IRS will respond in 30 days…and they are hoping that Barack Obama will have his pardon pen at the ready.

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Athos on July 11, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Nice summation, Athos.

Newtie and the Beauty on July 11, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Comment pages: 1 2