Quotes of the day

posted at 10:41 pm on June 18, 2014 by Allahpundit

While Iraq’s military claimed Wednesday to have driven back militants battling for control of the country, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told Congress that the United States has received a request from the Iraqi government to use its air power in the conflict.

Gen. Martin Dempsey, the senior ranking member of the U.S. armed forces, spoke before the Senate Appropriations Committee Wednesday on Capitol Hill in Washington, saying that the United States’ “national security interest (is) to counter (ISIS) where we find them.”

***

President Obama sought the advice of four initial supporters of the Iraq war on the current situation in Iraq. According to a White House readout of the meeting, the president this afternoon met with Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, and John Boehner, all of whom voted to authorize the Iraq war (except Pelosi, who supported intervening recently in Syria)…

Other prominent supporters of the Iraq war in the Obama administration include Vice President Joe Biden, Secretary of State John Kerry, and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel.

Obama is scheduled to meet with Kerry later this evening.

***

I’ll let you know what’s going on, but I don’t need new congressional authority to act, President Barack Obama told congressional leaders Wednesday about his upcoming decision on possible military intervention in Iraq.

The White House meeting sounded more like a listening session for the top Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate about options for helping Iraq’s embattled Shiite government halt the lightning advance of Sunni Islamist fighters toward Baghdad that Obama is considering…

While the White House statement emphasized Obama would continue to consult with Congress, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said the President “basically just briefed us on the situation in Iraq and indicated he didn’t feel he had any need for authority from us for the steps that he might take.”

***

Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who has co-sponsored legislation to repeal the 2002 resolution authorizing military force in Iraq, said Obama should consult with Congress.

“I certainly believe that the president always has to get congressional approval,” said Kaine, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. “If there’s an emergency, you may need to come back and get a congressional ratification. That’s the way the process is supposed to work.”…

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), a possible presidential candidate in 2016, said Obama could not rely on a resolution passed more than 10 years ago, when many members of Congress were not yet elected.

“A new war has started, and if people want to go be involved in a new war, the job of Congress is to vote on it,” he said. “I don’t think you can have a Congress of 10 years ago make a decision for the people here 10 years later.”

***

As U.S. leaders signal a willingness to partner with Iran in the fight against Iraqi terrorists, senior military officials in Tehran are warning of repercussions for the United States if it meddles in Iraq

Iranian General Hassan Firouzabadi, chief of staff of the country’s armed forces, slammed the United States and blamed former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for sponsoring terrorist groups in Iraq and the region.

“By any meddling and military intervention in Iraq, the Americans are seeking to attain ungracious goals, at the top of which undermining the elections in Iraq, and the crocodile tears of the Americans should not receive any attention, as they are still the allies of the sponsors and supporters of terrorists in the region,” Firouzabadi was quoted as saying in Tehran on Tuesday by the country’s state-run press.

***

David Petraeus, the former commander of coalition forces in Iraq, has issued a stark warning to those advocating U.S. military intervention against ISIS militias bearing down on Baghdad…

The former head of the CIA and one of the most highly respected generals in modern U.S. warfare said it was only wise to offer military support if the political conditions were exactly right in Iraq, a scenario that is virtually impossible to imagine in the near-future. “This cannot be the United States being the air force for Shia militias, or a Shia on Sunni Arab fight,” he said…

“If America is to support then it would be in support of a government against extremists rather than one side of what could be a sectarian civil war,” he said at the Margaret Thatcher Conference on Liberty in London. “It has to be a fight of all of Iraq against extremists, who happen to be Sunni Arabs, but extremists that are wreaking havoc on a country.”

***

Gratuitous finger-pointing is what Iraq War advocates do. They have yet to take responsibility for what will go down as one of the most horrific foreign policy debacles in American history.

Let’s be clear: What is happening in Iraq is the fault of the George W. Bush administration and those who agitated for invasion. According to the Council on Foreign Relations, ISIS “emerged in the ashes of the U.S.-led invasion to oust Hussein.” So, no invasion, no ISIS overrunning Iraq. Minus the invasion, there wouldn’t have been Maliki’s Shiite government isolating Iraq’s Sunni and Kurdish minorities, leading to an entirely foreseeable sectarian war.

As horrible as Hussein was, he ran a secular government by Middle Eastern standards. Since the U.S. invasion, Iraq has become more theocratic. More than half a million Christians have fled the country in fear for their lives. Now we have the specter of a radical theocracy governed by sharia law wherever ISIS gains control. These are exactly the kind of fanatics the Iraq War proponents promised to eradicate. Instead, the war has spawned a new and reportedly even more barbaric enemy set on establishing a global caliphate.

***

If the rap on Bush 43 was that he wanted to be policeman to the world, Obama seems to have the same ambition—only to do it on the cheap. Bush failed at his “mission accomplished” while spending a lot of money; Obama is failing while spending less.

Yes, Obama presided over the withdrawal American forces from Iraq, and announced a timetable for their pullout from Afghanistan. Still, he seeks to project U.S. force around the globe, regardless of priority or magnitude of crisis, as if our military was a hybrid of cops and Hessians. No matter seems too small for Obama’s attention, even if the upside for America is negligible or nonexistent…

To top it off, an American drone might kill a Sunni militant who was seeking to topple the Iranian-backed Shia-led Iraqi regime. But, if that same Sunni rebel turned westward to Syria he’d be—armed with American weapons—to take on Syria’s Iranian-backed government…

Faced with a Middle East in flames, Republicans would do well to hold extensive hearings on what was the president is thinking and hold the administration’s feet to the fire. The Democrats can respond, of course, that it was Bush’s fault, and they would be right. But strictly speaking, that’s not the contemporary GOP’s problem—unless, of course, it chooses to take on the defense of Bush’s actions of 10 years ago as part of its mandate. And that would be both bad policy and politics.

***

The Republican Party has a long-standing philosophy about welfare. It goes like this: People take responsibility only if they must. The more we intervene to prop them up, the less they do for themselves. We can’t save them from their bad choices. They have to face the consequences and adjust their behavior accordingly.

Carried to its extreme, this philosophy can become a rationale for neglect. But at its core, it’s true. It’s one reason why the welfare reforms of the 1990s didn’t produce the disaster many liberals predicted…

Republicans say ISIS is filling the “vacuum” left by Obama’s withdrawal. But the vacuum—which is really just another name for how the world works when we’re not there—affects other parties, too. As ISIS advances on Baghdad, Shiite militias are assembling. Iran is stepping in. Turkey may be next. The conflict could explode into sectarian civil war, though some Shiite leaders are trying to avoid that. But what’s striking is how quickly, in our absence, the threatened elements of Iraqi society and the region are mobilizing to stop ISIS. They’re doing it because they have to. If they don’t, nobody else will.

***

Deciding that the Syrian government, as bad as it is, was still better than the alternative of ISIS profoundly missed the point. As long as we allow the Syrian government to continue perpetrating the worst campaign of crimes against humanity since Rwanda, support for ISIS will continue. As long as we choose Prime Minister Maliki over the interests of his citizens, all his citizens, his government can never be safe.

President Obama should be asking the same question in Iraq and Syria. What course of action will be best, in the short and the long term, for the Iraqi and Syrian people? What course of action will be most likely to stop the violence and misery they experience on a daily basis? What course of action will give them the best chance of peace, prosperity and a decent government?

The answer to those questions may well involve the use of force on a limited but immediate basis, in both countries. Enough force to remind all parties that we can, from the air, see and retaliate against not only Al Qaeda members, whom our drones track for months, but also any individuals guilty of mass atrocities and crimes against humanity. Enough force to compel governments and rebels alike to the negotiating table. And enough force to create a breathing space in which decent leaders can begin to consolidate power.

***

Iraq wasn’t about al Qaeda before. It is now…

Acknowledging that reality does not mean the neoconservatives who criticized the 2011 pullout have been right all along. It’s their blunderbuss invasion that cracked open Iraq’s sectarian divides, and we have no obligation to accept their Johnny-One-Note militarism as the easy answer today. Replicating the mistakes of 2003 with another round of bloody unilateralism may heighten global suspicion of American imperialism, which is exactly what makes al Qaeda thrive…

An armed response would not be a betrayal of principle for the man who became president because he presciently declared in 2002 that Iraq would be a “dumb war.” Recall what Obama also said that day 12 years ago: “After Sept. 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.”

That is exactly what he is trying to prevent today.

***

There are those who think that the region as a whole may be starting to go through something similar to what Europe went through in the early 17th century during the Thirty Years’ War, when Protestant and Catholic states battled it out. This is a conflict which is not only bigger than al-Qa’eda and similar groups, but far bigger than any of us. It is one which will re-align not only the Middle East, but the religion of Islam…

Saudi officials more recently called for the Iranian leadership to be summoned to the International Criminal Court in The Hague for war crimes. Then, just the month before last, as the P5+1 countries eased sanctions on Iran after arriving at an interim deal in Geneva, Saudi saw its greatest fear — a nuclear Iran — grow more likely. And in the immediate aftermath of the Geneva deal, Saudi sources darkly warned of the country now taking Iranian matters ‘into their own hands’. There are rumours that the Saudis would buy nuclear bombs ‘off the shelf’ from their friends in Pakistan if Iran ever reaches anything like the nuclear threshold. In that case, this Westphalian solution could be prefaced with a mushroom cloud…

The war between Saudi and Iran has already reached America’s shores. It has been devastatingly fought out across Syria’s wasted land. In fact the only place where it has yet to strike meaningfully is on the soil of the main protagonists. If what has been happening so far looks bloody, it is the work of an Armageddon-ist to consider what will happen when those gloves come off. In a region replete with bitter rivalries and irreconcilable ambitions, that will be perhaps the ultimate clarification.

***

Via the Free Beacon.


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actions detrimental to NASCAR…

but seriously…
all three of the banned ppl were … ‘funny men’..
each had a different style of comedy..
LM was quick one liners.. cutting yes but funny
KA@ often used sex in his comedy.. some don’t like ‘blue comedy’
and SP was a great comic… (should do it professionally)
he had the pace of BHope 6-8 punch lines a minute
with wonderful layering and call back comedy..
NONE EVER threatened anyone…
NONE EVER threatened violence in any way..
NON EVER said HA better do this or it better do that..
comedy and being funny is about finding ‘the edge’.. and working it..
its difficult online as the comedian can not read the crowd..
are they laughing are they not .. leaning.. ready.. acceptable..
its very hard to read a crowd you can not see..
some posters… (and I am not naming names)
did not understand or did not like their style of comedy..
and ran to their mommys crying…
sometimes you go to see a comic and just don’t care for
the style.. the viewpoint.. the humor…
I went to see Buddy Hackett in Vegas once..
those with soft ears would have hated him…
I thought he was the greatest comedian ive ever seen live..
I also saw Robin Williams once..
his rants against GWB made me want to ask for my money back..
point is…
you soft eared types seem to be banning ppl over …comedy..
hope your proud..
oh.. also .. never wonder why you are hated by those who like a good joke.. a harmless laugh…

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM

Talk about a double standard.

bluegill on June 19, 2014 at 3:19 PM

Coming from the special kind of idiot who lectures others about going off-topic while engaging in that sort of behavior herself whenever she feels like it, anyone who thinks knows how to take your words, and you. =)

Wish you and the trolls you defend were banned, and not KA2.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 3:29 PM

Take your own advice first why don’t you.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 3:25 PM

You thought I was saying they’re consistent? Are you retarded?

Say something the moderators think could reflect poorly on the site and you get the hammer.

Foxhound on June 19, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Here is one of KoolAid2′s tamer posts (about SE Cupp), which epitomized his sick commentary on here:

…someone needs to cup Cupp’s cups…and squeeze them till her eyeballs hit her glasses!
KOOLAID2 on January 8, 2014 at 8:20 PM

This kind of sexual violencey stuff has no place here. Often KoolAid2 would direct similar comments to other readers. The site was right to take away his commenting privileges, if that’s what happened.

bluegill on June 19, 2014 at 1:49 PM

What is “sexual violency stuff”? As usual you probably did not read AP’s post OR look at the clip. You also have no sense of humor!

As for the rest of the clip, where Cupp teases out a scenario

JugEarsButtHurt on June 19, 2014 at 3:31 PM

You thought I was saying they’re consistent?

That’s not what I said, is it?

Are you retarded?

Foxhound on June 19, 2014 at 3:31 PM

No, I’m not, but I see that you are. =)

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 3:35 PM

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM

You are one of the greats ’round here G2M!! :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM

…when did *POP* replace *swoosh*…you pop poet!

JugEarsButtHurt on June 19, 2014 at 3:38 PM

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 3:29 PM

You too, strong!

(Oh dear do I have to make a list now of HA’s greats?)

I better get… lol…

Later peeps :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:39 PM

JugEarsButtHurt on June 19, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Since the other day, I swooshed and until recently, now I pop!

Besides it’s way faster!! ;)

I likes ur nom!! ;)

**POP**

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:42 PM

Are you retarded?

Foxhound on June 19, 2014 at 3:31 PM
No, I’m not, but I see that you are. =)

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 3:35 PM

If you weren’t retarded you wouldn’t quote people asking if you’re retarded.

Foxhound on June 19, 2014 at 3:43 PM

If you weren’t retarded you wouldn’t quote people asking if you’re retarded.

Foxhound on June 19, 2014 at 3:43 PM

“You can’t fire me, I quit!” -the retarded Foxhound

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM

ty but..
my writing skills are poor at best..
my spelling…ohhmyygosh…
some Greek kid here, even said my poems suck ..
but I know a joke when I see one…
time for some to drop the pampers they are still wearing..
and put on some adult clothes for once in their lives..
this isn’t kindergarten…
and most of us…not children…
remember the three rules of comedy??
commit to the joke.
go thru the joke.
and never ask for permission to tell the joke..

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

…someone needs to cup Cupp’s cups…and squeeze them till her eyeballs hit her glasses!
KOOLAID2 on January 8, 2014 at 8:20 PM

bluegill on June 19, 2014 at 3:19 PM

If said comment was so offensive as you suggest, why wasn’t KA2 banned back then eh?

It was a joke, only you wouldn’t know what that is would you harridan!

There is a Harridan stinking up the place…

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:26 PM

You are one of the greats ’round here G2M!! :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM

…yes g2m is…and never seems to sleep!…but then!…he’s a conservative from Michigan… and can’t sleep!

JugEarsButtHurt on June 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Scrumpy on June 19

Harridan are a catch and release species I believe….

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Ahhhh, our greek friend, he jests, and you know that!! :)

I like this newish person JugEarsButtHurt, seems like a nice fit!!

I don’t know what’s best to do, I do not like all this banning going on round here, either we are free to speak freely, we can self monitor, or we are not, as you say, we are not kids who need a nanny!!

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:54 PM

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM

I think I prefer seeing Sarah Palin with her spear spearing it!!

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:55 PM

JugEarsButtHurt on June 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM

he doesn’t sleep does he!!

So much the star-gazer and moonie ;D

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:57 PM

I gotta hit the stores up for some food!!

So, yeah, I am now goona pop for reals!!

See you all later :)

**POP**

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Do you think Susan T.Roll is miserable because no one wants to be with her and her toxic personality.

RickB on June 19, 2014 at 4:01 PM

you cant sleep living this close to Detroit
we are only one weeks bounced welfare checks
away from full blown Rodney King…

I draw when I have ideas..(yes I still have ..some)
and nap after those two working functioning cells no longer
talk to each other and my eyes are close to bleeding..

I can sleep when I am dead….

It’s high noon in the ME when its night here
and I keep waiting for BHO to stop dithering…

Michigan has the largest population of head choppers in the nation.. who could sleep..?

I will let the soft eared ones decide which is a joke and which is not..

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:55 PM

I think Bmore has just such a picture..

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 4:12 PM

with that its time for me to shut up an draw…cheers

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 4:19 PM

I don’t care much for banning either, but the procedure needs to be clear on how it’s done.

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 2:44 PM

The procedure is very simple. Say something the moderators think could reflect poorly on the site and you get the hammer.

BAM!

LOL, if what you said was true, we’d be troll free!!! And most likely HA would have shut down years ago, ROFL!!

Try again and use some logic this time and common sense.

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 7:21 PM

If said comment was so offensive as you suggest, why wasn’t KA2 banned back then eh?Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Great retort!! In my opinion KA2 wasn’t banned for that comment.
I’m sure many others of his and Lanceman & Sparky was sent to the Mods. What is happening here is like what the Dems/Administration is doing, i.e. silencing the opposition. That motive is political, the motive here is revenge.

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 7:34 PM

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 3:55 PM

I think Bmore has just such a picture..

going2mars on June 19, 2014 at 4:12 PM

That one was great:-) I like his latest one too!

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 7:35 PM

Do you think Susan T.Roll is miserable because no one wants to be with her and her toxic personality.

RickB on June 19, 2014 at 4:01 PM

I think that STR’s issue is her steady drip of condescenion and her ability to get on peoples nerves with her haughty high and mighty “I am better than” everyone personality. I have asked before that she lighten up, Schad has appealed to her to fight the good fight regards to the “amnesty” issue, with which I agree with BG on.

But no, so I don’t often mess with BG but just sometimes she irks my ire!!

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:01 PM

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 7:34 PM

No, he wasn’t banned for that one, which was my point, he had said worse and then not so bad things, it’s always been with that KA2 ‘flair’ for the ‘sechsual’ that’s KA2, dirty humour.

I came up in the time when men and women were always joshing each other in that sechsual manner, doesn’t bother me any.

I take it with a pinch of salt and tell myself, oh there goes KA2 again!!

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:04 PM

RickB on June 19, 2014 at 4:01 PM

When wrong comes against right, I’ll ‘fight’ for what I believe is right, and right now BG has been wrong on so many fronts against so many, including some Editors here, all, in my humble opinion, unwarrented. BG spouts her nonsense without knowing the full facts, and when she does know them, she does not apologise.

Bmore is still awaiting an apology, as far as I know.

If I do wrong I will apologise, and if it’s not accepted, not my problem…

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:09 PM

snipped…the motive here is revenge.

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 7:34 PM

Exactly, and I see that in Bg’s retorts, Bg is fairly bubbling over hardly containing her having won her revenge…

BG has almost slipped up on a couple occasions… I am sure you have seen that also :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:12 PM

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 7:35 PM

Bmore is quite the artiste!!

I like all his stuff :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:13 PM

I came up in the time when men and women were always joshing each other in that sechsual manner, doesn’t bother me any.

I take it with a pinch of salt and tell myself, oh there goes KA2 again!!

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:04 PM

I know, LOL Never bothered me either. Everyone has their own style.

I think this tattle tale stuff is going to get old soon:-)

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 8:21 PM

I think that STR’s issue is her steady drip of condescenion and her ability to get on peoples nerves with her haughty high and mighty “I am better than” everyone personality. I have asked before that she lighten up, Schad has appealed to her to fight the good fight regards to the “amnesty” issue, with which I agree with BG on.

But no, so I don’t often mess with BG but just sometimes she irks my ire!!

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:01 PM

She’s a narcissist and a liar. She thinks she a goddess.

bluegill and her fellow trolls are like foxes running free in a henhouse. They’ve picked off more than one hen already. It would be better have these disruptive trolls banned than to keep losing good people because of them. Some of our fellow posters think we should tolerate these trolls in the name of free speech. I say, they have their heads up far their butts. Coexisting with these trolls works like coexisting with Islamists does.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:30 PM

Bmore is still awaiting an apology, as far as I know.

If I do wrong I will apologise, and if it’s not accepted, not my problem…

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:09 PM

She likes to ignore her errors so I’m pretty sure Bmore won’t get an apology.

I know you apologize if needed as I remember that hugh issue (forgot the name)where that commenter was so nasty with you and pambi. Grrrr!

Oh, I like all of Bmore’s artwork. He’s really good with that.

See you later!

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 8:33 PM

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:30 PM

I know, the free speech thing is a chore to deal with, but, we have to have it, I think the only time one needs to defend against trolls is when they are blatently lying about issues, other than that, I guess, ignore them, which can be mighty hard to do at times!!

They take great pleasure in deriding others including some Bloggers and Editors here, but hey, they can all defend themselves, if they chose.

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:42 PM

bluefox on June 19, 2014 at 8:33 PM

That you will and thanks BF!! Like seeing you around here :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:43 PM

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:30 PM

BG isn’t the only one who has picked off folks here…

I like pretty much everything you have to say, just don’t agree on the free speech thing, as much as that pains me…

But hey, if we were all alike, the world would be pretty boring, eh, yeah!! :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:47 PM

I know, the free speech thing is a chore to deal with, but, we have to have it, I think the only time one needs to defend against trolls is when they are blatently lying about issues, other than that, I guess, ignore them, which can be mighty hard to do at times!!

They take great pleasure in deriding others including some Bloggers and Editors here, but hey, they can all defend themselves, if they chose.

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:42 PM

What troubles me about it is that people have been banned here for blatant trolling before. We have trolls like bg who don’t believe in free speech, who obviously try to provoke others into making bannable statements, and who obviously try to hijack threads.

There is nothing “free” or acceptable about that kind of trolling behavior, and it’s offensive to me to see some fools defend it and tell us we should tolerate it as we watch this place become less enjoyable. I sympathize greatly with why cozmo left here.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:50 PM

BG isn’t the only one who has picked off folks here…

I like pretty much everything you have to say, just don’t agree on the free speech thing, as much as that pains me…

But hey, if we were all alike, the world would be pretty boring, eh, yeah!! :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 8:47 PM

Could you explain to me the wisdom of trying to peacefully coexist with trolls like bg who don’t believe in free speech? It doesn’t make sense any more than trying to get along with Islamists who want your submission.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:53 PM

What troubles me about it is that people have been banned here for blatant trolling before. We have trolls like bg who don’t believe in free speech, who obviously try to provoke others into making bannable statements, and who obviously try to hijack threads.

There is nothing “free” or acceptable about that kind of trolling behavior, and it’s offensive to me to see some fools defend it and tell us we should tolerate it as we watch this place become less enjoyable. I sympathize greatly with why cozmo left here.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:50 PM

Could you explain to me the wisdom of trying to peacefully coexist with trolls like bg who don’t believe in free speech? It doesn’t make sense any more than trying to get along with Islamists who want your submission.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 8:53 PM

I am unhappy that cozmo decided to leave, and hope he will come back.

I do see your point, and since I also believe that we could not in 2000 years ever co-exist with Islamists, I am willing to concede my thought, about the trolls, I see them as a nuisance and an irritant
and we are bedevilled by them, perhaps being more selective about what is chosen to comment them on would be a wiser choice.

Free speech in the grander sense as a nation tho is extremely important…

Thank you for taking the time for us to discuss this!! :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 9:05 PM

I was thinking on the grander scheme of things before, it is a different matter all together here in this setting…

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 9:08 PM

I am unhappy that cozmo decided to leave, and hope he will come back.

I do see your point, and since I also believe that we could not in 2000 years ever co-exist with Islamists, I am willing to concede my thought, about the trolls, I see them as a nuisance and an irritant and we are bedevilled by them, perhaps being more selective about what is chosen to comment them on would be a wiser choice.

Free speech in the grander sense as a nation tho is extremely important…

Thank you for taking the time for us to discuss this!! :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 9:05 PM

I tank you, too. =) I think it’s a very important discussion to have.

Think about the trolls I’m referring to. If they’re being paid to troll, would that change anyone’s mind about being hospitable to them here because of free speech? And how about if they found out their sole intent was to cause disruption, whether paid to do that or not?

One other question. RWM has gone so far to name her thread, “The Gill-Free Gulch.” Would anyone say that’s a violation of bg’s freedoms? I don’t understand why should HA be any different, honestly. bg and her cabal of trolls do not believe what the rest of us do about free speech. Because of that, I can’t see why anyone would tell them they should feel welcome to sh!t anywhere they want because of “free speech.”

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 9:18 PM

I was thinking on the grander scheme of things before, it is a different matter all together here in this setting…

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 9:08 PM

Trolls like bg are absolutely violating HA’s Terms of Use in my opinion. Of course, I am not a mod who gets to decide this. =)

What it comes down to for me are these 2 possibilities, and no others: either you let the hungry foxes remain in the henhouse and wreak havoc, or you tell them they are too selfish and irresponsible, and in the names of peace and sanity, they are not free to be in the henhouse. You know where I stand.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 9:30 PM

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 9:18 PM

I like that, Gill Free Gulch, kinda exclusive ;)

I don’t understand why should HA be any different, honestly. bg and her cabal of trolls do not believe what the rest of us do about free speech. Because of that, I can’t see why anyone would tell them they should feel welcome to sh!t anywhere they want because of “free speech.”

Looking at this squarely in the face, so to speak, their sole purpose IS to shut down our ability to speak our minds! You are a savvy individual :)

What it comes down to for me are these 2 possibilities, and no others: either you let the hungry foxes remain in the henhouse and wreak havoc, or you tell them they are too selfish and irresponsible, and in the names of peace and sanity, they are not free to be in the henhouse. You know where I stand.

non-nonpartisan on June 19, 2014 at 9:30 PM

Having these ‘foxes’ in OUR henhouse is disruptive, talking about an issue always brings clarity, and sometimes when we/I do a cursory quick think, yeah, it makes sense at the time, but actually looking at this in depth, well, brings it to light exactly what these Harridans do!!

Thanks for this great convo :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Is QOTD up yet? ;)

Catch you up there :)

Scrumpy on June 19, 2014 at 9:42 PM

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