IRS tells GOP committee: We’ve lost e-mails from six more employees involved in scandal

posted at 1:21 pm on June 17, 2014 by Allahpundit

And all of them, apparently, were lost in computer crashes. That’s novel. Normally, when an agency doesn’t want to comply with a document request, it simply lies by claiming that no such document exists.

I’ll spare you a click and Voxsplain this one right here: Clearly the answer is to increase the IRS’s budget, so that they can afford more reliable PCs.

Seriously, though, who’s getting fired?

It’s not just Lois Lerner’s e-mails. The Internal Revenue Service says it can’t produce e-mails from six more employees involved in the targeting of conservative groups, according to two Republicans investigating the scandal.

The IRS told Ways and Means chairman Dave Camp and subcommittee chairman Charles Boustany that computer crashes resulted in additional lost e-mails, including from Nikole Flax, the chief of staff to former IRS commissioner Steven Miller, who was fired in the wake of the targeting scandal.

The revelation about Lerner’s e-mails rekindled the scandal and today’s news has further inflamed Republicans. Camp and Boustany are now demanding a special prosecutor to investigate “every angle” of the targeting. They expressed particular outrage that the agency has known since February that it would not be able to produce the e-mails requested by the committee yet did not apprise the committee of that fact, and they charged in a statement that the IRS is attempting to “cover up the fact that it convenient lost key documents in the investigation.”

Show of hands: When was the last time your computer crashed so hard that important data — e-mails, specifically — were lost and couldn’t be retrieved? I’ve used PCs and Macs every day for the past eight years, for 12 hours a day or more during weekdays, and I can’t remember experiencing something like that. It’s an “Internet 2001″ problem, not “Internet 2011,” especially given how cheap and ubiquitous back-up drives are today — and yet it happened to the IRS, apparently, no fewer than seven times, as recently as three years ago. And by the way, why are IRS e-mails being saved locally to employees’ hard drives instead of to a central server, a la e-mail programs like Gmail? The agency is required by statute to preserve records; the easiest way to do that for e-mail would be to store everything in a central cloud. Why doesn’t the IRS do that?

Or … do they? Here’s what Bryan Preston found out when he spoke to a former IRS IT specialist about the agency’s protocols:

“These environments were required by federal regulations to be redundant and recoverable,” the former IRS IT worker says. “The recoverability requirements were put into place for exactly the reasons we see today.” Disposal of records outside the statutory standards requires permission in writing.

He says that the IRS uses Microsoft Outlook/Exchange systems, which are backed up using Symantec NetBackup…

The former IRS IT worker adds that in his time on the prime contract, “I have worked for many federal agencies and the IRS had some of the best people.”

“This reason is why I scoff at the story being put out. Those folks would not have had such a short retention period for email unless they had it in writing from the highest levels. It would have made the local IT water cooler gossip if the IRS had screwed up and lost tons of email by accident.”

Is there any contemporaneous evidence that corroborates the computer-crash explanation? There is in Lois Lerner’s case: The IRS produced an e-mail exchange from 2011 in which Lerner and an IT person discussed the damage to her hard drive. If they were dealing with a plague of crashes, though, in which seven people or more lost data due to computer failures, there should also be contemporaneous evidence of the IT department noticing that the problem was systemic. Is there any? Hard to believe people at the IRS, of all places, would have shrugged at seeing potentially important data on multiple hard drives going up in smoke.

Either the IRS’s IT department is miserably incompetent, in which case lots of people should be fired, or the data destruction is deliberate, in which case lots of people should go to jail. Over to you, Ron Fournier. Exit question: Did anyone not connected to the targeting of conservative nonprofits lose any e-mails or is this curious string of bad luck confined to the principal players?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

In other Obama Admin IT disaster news:

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is contacting hundreds of thousands of people with subsidized health insurance to resolve questions about their eligibility, as consumer advocates express concern that many will be required to repay some or all of the subsidies.

Of the eight million people who signed up for private health plans through insurance exchanges under the new health care law, two million reported personal information that differed from data in government records, according to federal officials and Serco, the company hired to resolve such inconsistencies.

kcewa on June 17, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Something tells me lowly IT people aren’t going to risk perjury and prison to protect scum like Lois Lerner and the Democrat Party and White House operatives she was clearly colluding with.

Doughboy on June 17, 2014 at 1:28 PM

You don’t think they have been threatened? How did those VA whistleblowers make out?

Closet Optimist on June 17, 2014 at 1:57 PM

The IRS has been weaponized by the left. Time to abolish them.

redshirt on June 17, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Congress just passed a cut to 2008 levels for the IRA budget. (a 15% cut). Why has it taken so long for the House to finally close its purse strings? It needs to do the same to the EPA and other agencies. I guess the bill is written so they can’t be transferring funds or using their funds for certain purposes.

JugEarsButtHurt on June 17, 2014 at 1:57 PM

Show of hands: When was the last time your computer crashed so hard that important data — e-mails, specifically — were lost and couldn’t be retrieved?

For email? Can’t happen. Just get another computer and log into your email account. BOOM! There are your emails. Intact.

Alternate headline: IRS Sextuples down on Wildly Stupid Excuse.

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Why do we even have a Congress at this point?

What are they good for?

PappyD61 on June 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM

OT – what is going on?

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2014 at 1:52 PM

The wheels are coming off-everywhere.

non-nonpartisan on June 17, 2014 at 1:59 PM

ARREST SOME MOTHERF*CKERS RIGHT F*CKING NOW, FOR F*CKS SAKE.

SERIOUSLY – WHAT THE EVERLOVING F*CK DOES IT TAKE?

Midas on June 17, 2014 at 1:45 PM

It takes a Justice Department that isn’t entirely corrupt. We don’t have one of those. Welcome to the banana republic of America. What are we gonna do about it? Not a damn thing.

Rational Thought on June 17, 2014 at 1:56 PM

I’m looking square at Darrell Issa here.

Midas on June 17, 2014 at 1:59 PM

Obama administration gives America the FINGER

With Holder in Justice, Lew in Treasury, and the media still mostly groveling, the Obama administration is going to do whatever they want until SOMEONE(?)stops them.

Worthless corollary questions:
1) Who in the White House was notified of lost e-mails, and when?
2) Who in Treasury was notified of lost e-mails, and when?
3) Who in Justice was notified of lost e-mails, and when?
4) Who in FBI was notified of lost e-mails, and when?

“What does it matter now?”

pilsener on June 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM

Hubby asked me the other day why I often watch Law and Order reruns while cleaning the kitchen.
IT’S BECAUSE 99.99% OF THE PERPS ACTUALLY SERVE TIME !!!
Tends to help satisfy my God-given sense of justice, after reading hours of this cr@p in DC.

This is all purely obscene.

pambi on June 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM

ARREST SOME MOTHERF*CKERS RIGHT F*CKING NOW, FOR F*CKS SAKE.

SERIOUSLY – WHAT THE EVERLOVING F*CK DOES IT TAKE?

Midas on June 17, 2014 at 1:45 PM

It takes a Justice Department that isn’t entirely corrupt. We don’t have one of those. Welcome to the banana republic of America. What are we gonna do about it? Not a damn thing.

Rational Thought on June 17, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Oh hell – Eric “the dick” Holder is not going to arrest anyone…..
Obama will be giving everyone involved pardons….
Those are the e-mails we need to find….
The NSA has them and is holding them so that Obama does not get any bright ideas about reigning in the NSA.

We are going to have to replace all 535 of the elected officials in Congress and the Executive branch before the purging can begin. The leftist cabal is doing it’s damnist to consolidate power so that only short of a military coup, they will retain power no matter who is elected.

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/17/Judicial-Watch-Smoking-Gun-Busts-Open-IRS-Scandal-Again

Previous info and action by the various House Committees in above.

Now according to a release from House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, Lerner had a database of tax exempt organizations sent to the FBI just before the 2010 midterm elections. That database included legally protected taxpayer information. Emails show Lerner and DOJ Election Crimes Branch official Richard Pilger discussing what format the FBI prefers when it comes to receiving information for their investigation.

“Thanks Lois – FBI says Raw format is best because they can put it into their systems like excel,” Pilger wrote in an October 6, 2010 email to Lerner.

According to Reps. Darrell Issa and Jim Jordan in a letter to IRS commissioner John Koskinen: “This revelation that the IRS sent 1.1 million pages of nonprofit tax-return data — including confidential taxpayer information — to the FBI confirms suspicions that the IRS worked with the Justice Department to facilitate the potential investigation of nonprofit groups engaged in lawful political speech.”

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Maybe we can get a NY Times reporter to help find them. They were indispensable in tracking Abu Kattalah

Brock Robamney on June 17, 2014 at 2:01 PM

“I would call in certain officials. Let’s assume there could have been some mischief committed — before they have time to get their stories straight and fix things up, I would get them in there under oath and start digging down and getting the timeline and getting people on the record about this. The only people that I see than can do this are members of Congress. The question is, do they have the will to do that?” Attkisson stated.
Attkisson On Missing IRS Documents

whatcat on June 17, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Just watched episode one of ‘John Adams’ last night, and there was a scene where they tarred and feathered a dude, then rode him out on a rail. Your suggestion makes me grin. Midas on June 17, 2014 at 1:52 PM

That series is great. You’ll enjoy it. Keep the kleenex close!

Akzed on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

This would be worth it if EVERY COLLEGE STUDENT IN AMERICA was informed of what the IRS is claiming. The number of new voters who don’t trust Democrats would significantly tilt the electorate for a generation. That’s worth a LOT.

So, getting the word out on this is essential. Doing something this laughable has greater political consequences than they realize.

Congress should do everything they can to keep this in the news all summer.

Pythagoras on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

But we got the bad guy in Benjamin
*whine*

cmsinaz on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

For the wife of course.

Akzed on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

Why do we even have a Congress at this point?

What are they good for?

PappyD61 on June 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Most of them are progressives and are enabling the central consolidation of power.

These should be the first people to go.

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

I hate auto correct

cmsinaz on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

Something tells me lowly IT people aren’t going to risk perjury and prison to protect scum like Lois Lerner and the Democrat Party and White House operatives she was clearly colluding with.

Doughboy on June 17, 2014 at 1:28 PM

You don’t think they have been threatened? How did those VA whistleblowers make out?

Closet Optimist on June 17, 2014 at 1:57 PM

This is where the lazy incompetents in my field who go to work for government for the easy money get their payback.

The very existence of the IRS and the leftist way of life is at stake here. They are being threatened with worse than dismissal or audits right now…

Does “Fort Marcy Park” ring a bell?

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Is anyone else surprised that they’ve put out a story that so easily, demonstrably can be disproven?

Do they really have that much hubris? Are they really that stupid?

To go all tinfoil hat, what could galvanize disheartened liberals who’ve endured 6 years of their dreams being dashed, heading into 2016?

Republicans impeaching Obama, that’s what. I wonder if the community organizer is attempting to orchestrate some further chaos/corruption/lawlessness to goad the GOP into doing just that?

Impeachment only works with a dispassionate media laying out the facts and the party of the one being impeached siding with the truth and what’s best for the country over party. Fat chance of either here.

FishingwFredo on June 17, 2014 at 2:03 PM

ConstantineXI
hawkeye54
Midas

Well, I’m kinda’ inviting myself to the party.

But I do have a gallon of BlackJack (uh huh) in the garage *and* a coleman stove!

Tsar of Earth on June 17, 2014 at 2:03 PM

OT – significant

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Why do we even have a Congress at this point?

What are they good for?

PappyD61 on June 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM

*channels his inner Frankie Goes To Hollywood*

“… absolutely nothing!”

Midas on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Not really off topic

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Show of hands: When was the last time your computer crashed so hard that important data — e-mails, specifically — were lost and couldn’t be retrieved?

That’s like me saying I lost my wallet the other day, and because my debit card was in there my Bank Account is now gone for good…

nextgen_repub on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

ARREST SOME MOTHERF*CKERS RIGHT F*CKING NOW, FOR F*CKS SAKE.

SERIOUSLY – WHAT THE EVERLOVING F*CK DOES IT TAKE?

Midas on June 17, 2014 at 1:45 PM

You, like me, need to calm the f@ck down. I had to take a week off of reading this stuff.

I know, where’s the media? Infuriating.

hawkdriver on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Most of them are progressives and are enabling the central consolidation of power.

These should be the first people to go.

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

There is only one party in DC. The DC Party.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

This would be worth it if EVERY COLLEGE STUDENT IN AMERICA was informed of what the IRS is claiming. The number of new voters who don’t trust Democrats would significantly tilt the electorate for a generation. That’s worth a LOT.

So, getting the word out on this is essential. Doing something this laughable has greater political consequences than they realize.

Congress should do everything they can to keep this in the news all summer.

Pythagoras on June 17, 2014 at 2:02 PM

Most “college” students are progressives and have been brainwashed. They don’t see what is going on as a “problem”. They think that is their future. If you have kids – keep them out of the progressive cesspools.

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Stop paying pensions to IRS retirees until they cough up the subpoenaed data.

malclave on June 17, 2014 at 2:05 PM

ARREST SOME MOTHERF*CKERS RIGHT F*CKING NOW, FOR F*CKS SAKE.

SERIOUSLY – WHAT THE EVERLOVING F*CK DOES IT TAKE?

Midas on June 17, 2014 at 1:45 PM

It takes a Justice Department that isn’t entirely corrupt. We don’t have one of those. Welcome to the banana republic of America. What are we gonna do about it? Not a damn thing.

Rational Thought on June 17, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Well, not unless enough are willing to march on DC and physically remove the vermin directly. And if so, I’m certain the WH has a plan for that contingency.

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:05 PM

I know, where’s the media? Infuriating.

hawkdriver on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

The media see themselves as the progressive gatekeepers.
They are also enabling the leftist consolidation of power.
The NSA is probably now monitoring this thread.

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:05 PM

Not a smidgen of technological corruption.

Electrongod on June 17, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Show of hands: When was the last time your computer crashed so hard that important data — e-mails, specifically — were lost and couldn’t be retrieved?

We had an e-mail server physically DIE on us 2 years ago. We didn’t lose a single message.

Yes, our domain was down and you couldn’t send or receive mail until we replaced the server (shoestring budget, no redundant servers) but we didn’t lose a single message on the system.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:06 PM

There is only one party in DC. The DC Party.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:04 PM

True that. And from what I’ve read they certainly do like to party. On our dime. Yup, one huge neverending party for our DC elites.

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:07 PM

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 1:44 PM

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Stop it, yer killin’ me!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I think ALL of my ribs are broken!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

lolz

Resist We Much on June 17, 2014 at 1:52 PM

THANK YOU!! This needs to be on page 2 also!!!

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:07 PM

For email? Can’t happen. Just get another computer and log into your email account. BOOM! There are your emails. Intact.

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM

This is not always true. I would lose every email I had if my hard drive crashed (and the second RAID also crashed). Logging into the server would just give me what had come in since I had last been connected. Otherwise my mailbox would fill up.

However, because of federal data retention laws, if it were vital, we could go find the backups of the servers and pull those emails. (That would be a royal PITA, but for something like a Congressional subpoena I’m betting it would get done.)

GWB on June 17, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Not a smidgen of technological corruption.

Electrongod on June 17, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Not a smidgen of IT competence.

Either The Regime is so corrupt that 9 out of 10 employees need to go to prison OR The Regime is so INCOMPETENT that 9 out of 10 of them need to be FIRED.

There is no third possibility.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM

Well, not unless enough are willing to march on DC and physically remove the vermin directly. And if so, I’m certain the WH has a plan for that contingency.

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:05 PM

Yes, why do you think they have bought billions of rounds of ammo since Obama took power?
Obama knows the military won’t put down an insurrection of the people. But his progressive armies will.
I don’t know how good of shots people in the IRS, BLM, USDA and the Dept. of Eduction are…..
But, most of them won’t work unless they are getting overtime….

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM

FishingwFredo on June 17, 2014 at 2:03 PM

This nic is the only thing to make me smile on this rotten story.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on June 17, 2014 at 2:09 PM

The NSA is probably now monitoring this thread.

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:05 PM

Was, is and will be. For sure.

They’ve got the dossiers ready to use when it comes time to collect us to fill those FEMA work and re-eduction camps.

/SNARK

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:09 PM

Taking care of business, Chicago style.

Remember the St. Valentines Day Massacre?

Same story, different cast. This time the victims were PCs, but the perpetrators were the same kind of thugs.

fogw on June 17, 2014 at 2:09 PM

How convenient.

Ward Cleaver on June 17, 2014 at 2:09 PM

No funding until they cough up the e-mails.

Oh, wait. I forgot that the House of Reps would have to have some backbone.

Silly me.

trigon on June 17, 2014 at 2:12 PM

This is not always true. I would lose every email I had if my hard drive crashed (and the second RAID also crashed). Logging into the server would just give me what had come in since I had last been connected. Otherwise my mailbox would fill up.

However, because of federal data retention laws, if it were vital, we could go find the backups of the servers and pull those emails. (That would be a royal PITA, but for something like a Congressional subpoena I’m betting it would get done.)

GWB on June 17, 2014 at 2:07 PM

We use a mix of Windows 2008R2 servers and some older Windows 2003 servers. We run on a unified domain across the WAN, and every user’s system profile (documents, Outlook PST, etc) are mirrored to their local server. If we lose a PC we lose no data. All servers are at least RAID 5 with a hotspare which means any drive can fail at any time and we don’t go down or lose data. With the hotspare that means that ANOTHER drive could fail before we replace the first failed drive with the same result.

In addition to that, we back the servers up to either a tape or to a deduplicated D2D disk backup that itself is a RAID redundant array. And that unit is also backed up to tape.

We do all that, and are a small IT department with not much money and a dozen locations to manage…

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Yes, why do you think they have bought billions of rounds of ammo since Obama took power?
Obama knows the military won’t put down an insurrection of the people. But his progressive armies will.
I don’t know how good of shots people in the IRS, BLM, USDA and the Dept. of Eduction are…..
But, most of them won’t work unless they are getting overtime….

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM

That’s pretty much the evidence of my certainty. That, and Obumbles floating the idea of using our military for domestic disturbances. And as far as shooting, it don’t matter the accuracy, ad some of those bureaucrats will work for the right incentive, and as long as those billions of rounds can be used and also kept out of our hands.

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:13 PM

IRS Has Lost More E-mails . . .
It’s not just Lois Lerner’s e-mails. The Internal Revenue Service says it can’t produce e-mails from six more employees involved in the targeting of conservative groups, according to two Republicans investigating the scandal.

The IRS told Ways and Means chairman Dave Camp and subcommittee chairman Charles Boustany that computer crashes resulted in additional lost e-mails, including from Nikole Flax, the chief of staff to former IRS commissioner Steven Miller, who was fired in the wake of the targeting scandal.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380576/irs-has-lost-more-e-mails-eliana-johnson

Who wants to start a betting pool between a ‘sudden’ hard drive crash at the white house OR the Dear Liar deciding those emails fall under executive privilege?

DinaRehn on June 17, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Where is that bunch that stayed after it looking for Palin’s emails until they got them? Maybe they can help. /sarc

JP Mewley on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

=:-0

That’s my shocked face!

Deafdog on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

DinaRehn on June 17, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Whoops! Posted the wrong excerpt:

Congress to Obama: Send Us ‘All Communications’ Between Your Office and Lois Lerner
(CNSNews.com) – Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, is asking President Obama to “ensure accountability” in the ongoing IRS investigation by providing his committee with “all communications between Lois Lerner and any persons within the Executive Office of President for the period between January 1, 2009 and May 1, 2011.”

DinaRehn on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

After reading the latest Judicial Watch info on Brieitbart, they are all involved.

“This revelation that the IRS sent 1.1 million pages of nonprofit tax-return data — including confidential taxpayer information — to the FBI confirms suspicions that the IRS worked with the Justice Department to facilitate the potential investigation of nonprofit groups engaged in lawful political speech.”

(So did the IRS lose those 1.1 million pages too?)

Judicial Watch’s leadership led Congress to uncover that the FBI is now part of the IRS abuse scandal. Where will it end? And when will someone be held criminally accountable? Eric Holder’s DOJ and the FBI are now supposed to be investigating themselves? This is untenable.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/17/Judicial-Watch-Smoking-Gun-Busts-Open-IRS-Scandal-Again

(If more info comes out, this Administration would fall from the top down!)

Thanks JW for all of your hard work.

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

we’re more comfortable with Obama wielding this sort of power because he seems a hell of a lot more effective and responsible with it.

urban elitist on February 8, 2012 at 9:33 PM

The gift comment that keeps on giving.

Bishop on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

For email? Can’t happen. Just get another computer and log into your email account. BOOM! There are your emails. Intact.

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 1:58 PM

This is not always true. I would lose every email I had if my hard drive crashed (and the second RAID also crashed). Logging into the server would just give me what had come in since I had last been connected. Otherwise my mailbox would fill up.

This is not snark. Serious question: If you logged into you email account from another computer right now, then you would not be able to see your past emails? That means all emails that have been opened are stored only on local drives? o_O

However, because of federal data retention laws, if it were vital, we could go find the backups of the servers and pull those emails. (That would be a royal PITA, but for something like a Congressional subpoena I’m betting it would get done.)

GWB on June 17, 2014 at 2:07 PM

It would get done if a (R) were in the White House because the chorus of voices in the leftist national media would drown out everything else until those emails were produced. With the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? I wouldn’t bet on it.

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Let’s see those help desk tickets.

talkingpoints on June 17, 2014 at 1:32 PM

The help desk computers crashed too!!!

What is in those emails that is so damaging they are willing to face multiple obstruction charges?

talkingpoints on June 17, 2014 at 1:38 PM

No one is going to face charges. Who is going to prosecute?

Okay, so – when are those obama IMPEACHMENT hearings scheduled to begin?

Pork-Chop on June 17, 2014 at 1:39 PM

Never.

There is no way the cover up would be this blatant and this widespread if the scandal doesn’t go all the way to the Cabinet level, at least.

Would you risk your career and even your freedom obstructing justice for Lois Lerner?

fadetogray on June 17, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Some low-level IT employee in Cincinnati might.

Oh hell – Eric “the dick” Holder is not going to arrest anyone…..
Obama will be giving everyone involved pardons….

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM

Bingo… finally someone gets the drift.

Walter L. Newton on June 17, 2014 at 2:17 PM

I suggest that some specific “IT personnel” showed up at Lois Lerner’s desk and took the hard drive out of her functioning PC because of the “reports” that her computer had crashed, and then while attempting to recover said data, proceeded to make said data irretrievable.

deadrody on June 17, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Whoops

deadrody on June 17, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Yes, why do you think they have bought billions of rounds of ammo since Obama took power?
Obama knows the military won’t put down an insurrection of the people. But his progressive armies will.
I don’t know how good of shots people in the IRS, BLM, USDA and the Dept. of Eduction are…..
But, most of them won’t work unless they are getting overtime….

redguy on June 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM

They could have trillions of rounds, it won’t be enough.

There are HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of firearms in private hands in the United States. That is a larger potential militia force than a dozen times the size of the biggest army in the world. “A rifle behind every blade of grass” as it was famously said.

You think a bunch of hopped-up cops with fancy gear and body armor (which cannot protect them from full sized .30 caliber rifle bullets, your most common hunting type round in the US) who are only competent to deploy at 3AM with overwhelming numbers and total surprise would have the morale OR the courage to face that?

As you say, the military won’t side with them. Most of them will side with US…

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:18 PM

Did anyone not connected to the targeting of conservative nonprofits lose any e-mails or is this curious string of bad luck confined to the principal players?

Coincidence! King Barack would say. But never fear, The Chosen One will be “angered” when he reads of this in the newspaper.

As soon as he gets off the golf course.

GarandFan on June 17, 2014 at 2:18 PM

He says that the IRS uses Microsoft Outlook/Exchange systems, which are backed up using Symantec NetBackup…

They have redundant backups offsite. They are lying. AND emails to the White House are copied, archived and redundantly backed up.

It’s time to start arresting people and send in the forensic IT people, IF the IRS IT people don’t give up the emails.

Start offering to put THEM in jail.

dogsoldier on June 17, 2014 at 2:18 PM

Next Josh Earnest spin guesses.

The horrific Y2K virus reared its selective, e-mail-eating, hard drive-eating, server-eating ugly head a decade later on the only computers in the nation which were not equipped to handle it. Stinking, no good Windows 3.1 anti-virus!

These particular computers were affected when the users went to websites which were not on the list of IRS-approved porn sites. Apparently, Ms. Lerner was confused when she thought she was going to one called “Screw the Tea Party.”

E mail? You’re mistaken, we use G mail. E mail therefore, does not exist, and we cannot produce it.

We destroyed them. We don’t care. We will not comply with any law, now or ever. What are you going to do about it?

MrKleenexMuscles on June 17, 2014 at 2:19 PM

Why is it that they are so meticulous about finding every detail of my tax info, but so incredibly sloppy and irresponsible with their internal info?

I suppose it is for the same reasons that political leaders give speeches about how everyone should be equal, while they make sure they and their cronies continue to get special privileges and exemptions.

And the same reasons lawmakers pass onerous laws and regulations for private individuals and industry, but exempt themselves and government institutions.

Hypocrisy, cronyism, corruption, arrogance, elitism — lots of fitting words for it. Evil is the one word that seems to cover it all best.

For those who want to argue that the IRS is not engaged in a cover-up, then the alternative explanation would have to be that the management is composed of incompetent and incapable people, and the whole organization needs a major housecleaning. Unfortunately Obama seems incapable of firing people who need to be fired, so the ultimate responsibility, and fault for incompetence and incapability, falls on him.

He has been going around trying to frame some sort of definition of a legacy for his years in office. If he keeps going on the current course, his true legacy is going to be government institutions that fail in duty to the people, and an economic/political implosion due to unsustainable public debt and unfunded obligations.

s1im on June 17, 2014 at 2:20 PM

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

I strongly suspect that JW, with their pursuit through the courts, will achieve far more than ever Congress does. (Which is why it was so important for Obama / Reid to stack the DC Circuit Court last fall.)

Let’s also not forget that we know Lerner has already violated federal law when it comes to IRS records / info – the 1.1 million tax returns / records that she sent to the FBI and DoJ to kick off criminal probes were sent in violation of federal law.

When’s the perp walk? Oh, yeah….Holder’s DoJ. (This guy is making John Mitchell look like a choir boy.)

Athos on June 17, 2014 at 2:21 PM

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

I can see the online archive from my desk quite easily. I use it to search past email. I am telling you email is fo rev ah.

dogsoldier on June 17, 2014 at 2:21 PM

No one will know because no one in the LSM will tell them ,
they’re all too busy celebrating Killery’s victory today.
Didn’t ya’ll hear, just before she had to go peddle her ” book” on Fox, a Benghazi jihady gets “captured ” …what a coincidence :P
It’s a miracle !!!!
Maybe now Greta will ask Killery about how to make documents disappear ! and reappear !!

burrata on June 17, 2014 at 2:22 PM

That’s pretty much the evidence of my certainty. That, and Obumbles floating the idea of using our military for domestic disturbances. And as far as shooting, it don’t matter the accuracy, ad some of those bureaucrats will work for the right incentive, and as long as those billions of rounds can be used and also kept out of our hands.

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Ever seen a typical city cop practice at the gun range with their service piece?

It’s comedy. True, not all police are donut munching Barney Fifes but a lot of them are…

Most of us who have to pay for our own ammunition practice TO BECOME ACCURATE with our weapons. Both for effectiveness and for conservation of ammunition which gets expensive! Government types can waste ammunition all they want, we’re paying for it, not them.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:22 PM

So this is why the Admin doesn’t want Snowden to release his files – he has Lerner’s emails……

Athos on June 17, 2014 at 2:22 PM

s1im on June 17, 2014 at 2:20 PM

We are expected to believe they are selectively sloppy. /SNORT!

dogsoldier on June 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM

It’s pretty standard procedure at the government installation I work at to configure desktop PCs with twin mirroring drives so that, even if one drive dies, the other one still has a copy. This only adds the cost of one more drive to the computer, which is really an insignificant increment to the price. We also use cloud-based automatic backups that protect the data off-site in case of a catastrophic incident like an earthquake. This is for non-critical employee-specific data.

For the programs that run the installation and the data it produces we use high-reliability RAID systems that can sustain multiple disk failures, a second backup RAID system in case the first fails, both serviced under a contract with 24-hour full replacement policies by the manufacturer, running on large industrial uninterruptable power supplies and backup generators, and regularly backed up on tape.

For Lois and her Six Flunkies (no doubt highly-paid flunkies), whose only useful product is internal directives, memos, and correspondences that convey the results of laborious consultations, meetings, studies, legal analysis, and executive decisions, their emails and documents would require the latter level of data reliability. The idea that their emails would be treated like junk mail and thrown away after a couple of years simply doesn’t pass the laugh test.

Socratease on June 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM

The left’s battle plan, to those of us willing to admit it, is to use the government to suppress us in the short term, dilute our voting power with millions of illegals over the long term. Once their political control is secure, they will cement their new social order with gun confiscation.

This is no longer a normal functioning western-style democracy. There is no political solution to be had with the left. This isn’t political gamesmanship – this is a non-shooting civiil war. If you’ve ever wondered what a close-up look at a socialist takeover looks like, you’ve got a front row seat.

crrr6 on June 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM

This administration is systemically criminal. I don’t want to see anyone fired. I want to see them leveraged.

Unfortunately the House of Representatives wasn’t designed to be an investigatory body, but it’s all that’s left.

forest on June 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Appoint a Special Prosecutor.

EA_MAN on June 17, 2014 at 2:25 PM

So the IRS, who has a $11 Billion budget, and who has a duty by law to keep records of emails, is recycling back up tapes after 6 months?

So it’s what?

“Oh well, that Federal law thing is going to have to take a back seat because we can’t spend a few thousand dollars on additional backup tapes”.

WisRich on June 17, 2014 at 2:25 PM

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

I can see the online archive from my desk quite easily. I use it to search past email. I am telling you email is fo rev ah.

dogsoldier on June 17, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Oh, I know. Just trying to ascertain what page GWB is on…

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Emails are not stored on individual computers. I don’t think that they think we’re that stupid. I think that they’re rubbing our noses in it.

cajunpatriot on June 17, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Unfortunately the House of Representatives wasn’t designed to be an investigatory body, but it’s all that’s left.

forest on June 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Is there anything in the Constitution that says that the House CANNOT hire a private 3rd party neutral non-partisan entity to aid or assist in it’s investigations ?

burrata on June 17, 2014 at 2:29 PM

So the IRS, who has a $11 Billion budget, and who has a duty by law to keep records of emails, is recycling back up tapes after 6 months?

So it’s what?

“Oh well, that Federal law thing is going to have to take a back seat because we can’t spend a few thousand dollars on additional backup tapes”.

WisRich on June 17, 2014 at 2:25 PM

The bigger question is, the IRS, with it’s $11 billion dollar budget can’t afford a DEDUPLICATED DISK BACKUP SYSTEM that is capable of keeping file backups for YEARS and instead relies on TAPES alone which is 1970′s technology?

Such a thing isn’t that expensive. I installed one here where I work. And we have only 3 IT people to handle 12 locations…

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:30 PM

EA_MAN on June 17, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Appoint a Special Prosecutor. A Special Prosecutor will find them.

Bmore on June 17, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Really, this is just a cry for help.

The IRS needs a full data, assets and spending audit and a suspension of its spending via contract until that is done. The agency should be able to still run itself in a crippled mode as it is fully audited.

Top to bottom.

For every individual who has worked there since at least 2009… and possibly earlier if their data ‘problems’ go back further.

Really they should be able to account for absolutely every penny spent, every piece of equipment and ALL THE DATA the agency holds.

Or they could cough up what was requested and avoid the audit.

Make this about the IRS as an institution and it has WIN written all over it.

ajacksonian on June 17, 2014 at 2:31 PM

Emails are not stored on individual computers. I don’t think that they think we’re that stupid. I think that they’re rubbing our noses in it.

cajunpatriot on June 17, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Give them another generation with the government “education” system and we will be that stupid. We really will need a flood of Indians because Americans won’t be capable of running IT systems.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:32 PM

Is there anything in the Constitution that says that the House CANNOT hire a private 3rd party neutral non-partisan entity to aid or assist in it’s investigations ?

burrata on June 17, 2014 at 2:29 PM

There is nothing that says so. The House can hire staff, who’s to say a staffer can’t be an attorney with criminal prosecutorial experience?

Obama can hire all his Czars, right?

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:34 PM

And while they are at the task of trying to get the IRS to logically show why they cannot find the emails, they should draw up impeachment charges on Eric Holder for the failure to perform his job in this, Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the failure to enforce immigration laws and whatever else pops up.

gonnjos on June 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Most of us who have to pay for our own ammunition practice TO BECOME ACCURATE with our weapons. Both for effectiveness and for conservation of ammunition which gets expensive! Government types can waste ammunition all they want, we’re paying for it, not them.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:22 PM

Heh, waste is what they do best. If such a scenario were to come, a lot of ‘em will likely end up shooting themselves and each other with some of the ammo they’ll be wastin’. No fear, Obumbles expects to have a slew of minions as replacements.

/SNARK

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Where are the lefties.

PALIN!

GOD!

Huh….usually that brings ‘em runnin’.

Bishop on June 17, 2014 at 2:37 PM

forest on June 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Start impeaching them, and let them bring their evidence.

gonnjos on June 17, 2014 at 2:37 PM

As a IT professional, if I saw any act of the law being broken, I report it, and as a veteren I swore to uphold the Constitution and protect my country against all enemies foreign and domestic. I will not turn that Oath off…ever. Hopefully their are some ITs with the same level of resposibiliy that will do the right thing at the IRS.

ninjacoastie on June 17, 2014 at 2:38 PM

Holder is getting to the bottom of this
/

cmsinaz on June 17, 2014 at 2:39 PM

The IRS produced an e-mail exchange from 2011 in which Lerner and an IT person discussed the damage to her hard drive.

I’ve worked in IT most of my adult life, and I have experienced hard drive crashes from time to time, but I have never not been able recover data lost in a corporate environment. Usually, the IT admin restores the backup in a couple of hours and everybody moves on like nothing happened. So this is either willful destruction by the key players (“Hey, everybody, let’s smash our hard drives with this $1,000 hammer!”), or utter incompetence by a key federal agency. Either way, people need to suffer criminal penalties and the IRS should be dissolved.

Small-government conservatives don’t need to make a case for smaller government because the big-government progressives are making that case for them.

Appoint a special prosecutor and audit the IRS. While we’re at it, let’s audit the Fed, too.

conservablogger on June 17, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Heh, waste is what they do best. If such a scenario were to come, a lot of ‘em will likely end up shooting themselves and each other with some of the ammo they’ll be wastin’. No fear, Obumbles expects to have a slew of minions as replacements.

/SNARK

hawkeye54 on June 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Self inflicted and “friendly fire” casualties in Obama’s Civilian Defense Corpse will rival the rate of suicide bombers.

Police officers are not soldiers any more than common civilians are.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:40 PM

“And by the way, why are IRS e-mails being saved locally to employees’ hard drives instead of to a central server, a la e-mail programs like Gmail?” They aren’t everything I’ve ready says the IRS uses MS Outlook running on a MS exchange server platform. Everything we are hearing about these lost e-mails is a lie.

tommyboy on June 17, 2014 at 2:41 PM

The only way we’re going to get the trolls to weigh in on this topic is if Sarah Palin writes a Facebook post about it.

Left Coast Right Mind on June 17, 2014 at 2:41 PM

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM

I strongly suspect that JW, with their pursuit through the courts, will achieve far more than ever Congress does. (Which is why it was so important for Obama / Reid to stack the DC Circuit Court last fall.)

Let’s also not forget that we know Lerner has already violated federal law when it comes to IRS records / info – the 1.1 million tax returns / records that she sent to the FBI and DoJ to kick off criminal probes were sent in violation of federal law.

When’s the perp walk? Oh, yeah….Holder’s DoJ. (This guy is making John Mitchell look like a choir boy.)

Athos on June 17, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Sure, the DC Circuit Court is an issue. However, this is getting hotter and hotter. Not sure if they (the Agencies involved) would want to go to Court, do you? Discovery? From what JW has revealed, more than one Agency has violated the law. I read sometime back that a Senator was involved also. A lot of heads will roll on this.

I tend to think that someway they will be held accountable. I don’t know how or when, but there are too many agencies involved. Like a dam, you can only patch so many leaks.

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Ever seen a typical city cop practice at the gun range with their service piece?

It’s comedy. True, not all police are donut munching Barney Fifes but a lot of them are…

Tell me about it. I remember one cop on the range who I saw practicing draw-and-fire. He’d pull it out of the holster, bring it up over his head, and then down to line it up, like he was casting for a fish or something.

Socratease on June 17, 2014 at 2:42 PM

As a IT professional, if I saw any act of the law being broken, I report it, and as a veteren I swore to uphold the Constitution and protect my country against all enemies foreign and domestic. I will not turn that Oath off…ever. Hopefully their are some ITs with the same level of resposibiliy that will do the right thing at the IRS.

ninjacoastie on June 17, 2014 at 2:38 PM

I was never in the military, but as an American, much less a career IT professional, I consider myself as bound by that oath as you do.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:42 PM

But the IRS told Congress on Friday that, until May 2013, it only kept backed-up copies of employee emails for six months before reusing the digital tapes used for storage.

The IRS says it stopped recycling and began storing those tapes last May, the same month that Lerner apologized for the IRS’s treatment of Tea Party groups.

Because it has roughly 90,000 employees, the IRS says it also limits the number of emails that its employees can keep in their inboxes at a time, something it said Friday was “not an uncommon practice within the government or the private sector.”

That means that each individual IRS staffer can only keep around 6,000 emails, a figure that was even lower — at roughly 1,800 — before July 2011. Each employee got to choose which emails to keep and which to archive in the hard drive on their computer. Hard copies would also be kept of emails considered official documents.

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/finance/209530-gop-turns-up-heat-on-irs#ixzz34vGxu9Ud

Here is a perfectly understandable reason why the crashed drives permantently lost their email. My corporation does the same thing limiting the amount of space on the servers.

What is not understandable is that the government, which is required to preserve records of all these communications, doesn’t have offsite copies separate from the users machine or the server.
One wonders if they have a similar policy for the White House. Maybe the government should eat their own dog food from the NSA.

And it is not understandable that it seems everyone’s hard drive has crashed that is involved in the investigation.

Sebastian on June 17, 2014 at 2:43 PM

No Wonder the IRS Is ‘Losing’ E-mails: It Was Trying to Throw Innocent Conservatives in Jail

By David French

Even a small child can connect these dots.

The IRS is announcing the “loss” of mass numbers of e-mails (do they have any computers that don’t crash?) even as the e-mails that do exist are beginning to show the extent of IRS corruption. Let’s take this exchange (previously uncovered by Judicial Watch) between Lois Lerner, the director of exempt organizations at the IRS, and Nikole Flax, then the IRS commissioner’s chief of staff. (To be clear, these are not “low level” employees.)

First, here’s Lerner on May 8, 2013, literally two days before last year’s fake apology for IRS tea-party targeting:

I got a call today from Richard Pilger Director Elections Crimes Branch at DOJ. I know him from contacts from my days there. He wanted to know who at IRS the DOJ folk s could talk to about [Rhode Island Democrat] Sen. Whitehouse idea at the hearing that DOJ could piece together false statement cases about applicants who “lied” on their 1024s –saying they weren’t planning on doing political activity, and then turning around and making large visible political expenditures. DOJ is feeling like it needs to respond, but want to talk to the right folks at IRS to see whether there are impediments from our side and what, if any damage this might do to IRS programs.

I told him that sounded like we might need several folks from IRS. I am out of town all next week, so wanted to reach out and see who you think would be right for such a meeting and also hand this off to Nan as contact person if things need to happen while I am gone –

Translation: The Obama Justice Department was reaching out to the Obama IRS to see if it could “piece together” prosecutions of nonprofits even before any evidence of wrongdoing emerged.

And how did Nikole Flax respond? By suggesting that even more federal agencies get involved:

I think we should do it – also need to include CI, which we can help coordinate. Also, we need to reach out to FEC. Does it make sense to consider including them in this or keep it separate?

In other words, rather than asking the DOJ whether it possessed any evidence of wrongdoing by American citizens engaged in constitutionally protected activities, two senior officials in the Obama IRS (including one, Lois Lerner, who “joked” about wanting to work for Organizing For Action, also known as BarackObama.com) pushed forward the effort to launch a multi-agency criminal probe, involving even the FEC. Oh, and keep in mind that this e-mail exchange occurred literally years after the IRS claimed it had ended all tea-party targeting.

And in the last few days we learn the IRS has “lost” e-mails from — among others — Lois Lerner and Nicole Flax. What a remarkable coincidence.

The scale of the wrongdoing is staggering. Targeting Americans for criminal investigation without evidence, attempting to enlist multiple federal agencies in the effort, selective audits, selective disclosures of confidential documents, selective questioning and delays of nonprofit applicants — all in the service of suppressing dissent. At the ACLJ, I’m one of the attorneys in our litigation — on behalf of 41 conservative groups in 22 states — against the IRS and key IRS officials.

As of today, we’re putting the DOJ, FEC, and even key Democratic senators on notice: They’re bound by law to preserve any communications with IRS officials that would be discoverable in our lawsuit.

The administration’s misconduct and its cover-up are so brazen, so contemptuous of common sense and the truth, that they will — once and for all — put the media and the Left to the test: When it comes to this administration, does the rule of law matter at all? Does the truth matter at all? Or is it all about ideology now?

I know how they’ll respond, and I fear for the future of our democracy. They fight us today — by virtually any means necessary — so their government of the Left, by the Left, and for the Left shall not perish from the Earth.

Resist We Much on June 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Everything we are hearing about these lost e-mails is a lie.

tommyboy on June 17, 2014 at 2:41 PM

This is this most succinct summary of the situation I have seen so far, and it should be repeated often:

Everything we are hearing about these lost e-mails is a lie!

yaedon on June 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Can we impeach every single federal government worker from Jugears to the cleaning ladies?

Throw everyone out!

txdoc on June 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Sure, the DC Circuit Court is an issue. However, this is getting hotter and hotter. Not sure if they (the Agencies involved) would want to go to Court, do you? Discovery? From what JW has revealed, more than one Agency has violated the law. I read sometime back that a Senator was involved also. A lot of heads will roll on this.

I tend to think that someway they will be held accountable. I don’t know how or when, but there are too many agencies involved. Like a dam, you can only patch so many leaks.

bluefox on June 17, 2014 at 2:42 PM

All the cogs in The Regime, up to, and including Federal Judges need to stop and think about where this could lead. And what potential consequences to themselves could be as well.

Obama and Holder aren’t going to be in office forever.

ConstantineXI on June 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM

All feds at Lerner’s level will have Blackberries in order to access their e-mail remotely. Blackberries don’t log into your personal computer to check for new mail, they access your central e-mail service.

Arbo on June 17, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4