Scott Walker: My position on gay marriage doesn’t matter anymore

posted at 6:11 pm on June 13, 2014 by Allahpundit

A federal judge just struck down the state’s constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, so what Walker’s saying is technically correct. As more courts step in and remove this issue from the democratic process, it really doesn’t matter what a governor or a legislator thinks. They’re powerless to stop it — especially if they happen to be running for reelection this year as a Republican in a blue state where a majority (or near majority) of voters now supports legalizing SSM.

How about a would-be president, though? He should probably have a thought or two on the subject, no?

During a 12-minute news conference at a muddy and messy groundbreaking event in Oak Creek, the first-term Republican governor argued that his position on same-sex marriage is no longer relevant.

“It really doesn’t matter what I think now,” Walker said at one point. “It’s in the constitution.”…

“I don’t comment on everything out there,” he responded.

Except he usually does, especially on a hot-button issue like this one.

Walker bristled when it was suggested he was refusing to answer the question. “You can print whatever you want, but I did not decline comment,” he said.

OK, let’s try it one more time.

Is the governor — like some other conservatives — rethinking his position on same-sex marriage?

“No,” Walker said. “I’m just not stating one at all.”

He hasn’t changed his mind on opposing SSM (I think?), he just … doesn’t want to talk about it. And hasn’t, actually, for some time. Shortly after the federal ruling last month, he sidestepped the question by saying, “I don’t know what (allowing gay marriage) means. Voters don’t talk to me about that. They talk to me about the economy. They talk to me about their kids’ schools.” The state’s handling of the federal ruling has been chaotic, with the attorney general battling county clerks over whether marriage licenses should issue immediately or wait for the appeal, but all Walker had to say about it was a lone sentence about defending the state constitution. Back in November, in an interview with BuzzFeed, he went even further in trying to cut the SSM Gordian knot:

On the marriage issue, he can probably best be described as “evolving.” Pointing to a 2006 state constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, Walker was quick to note — much to his apparent relief — that he was effectively powerless in the debate. “From my standpoint, as governor I won’t ever have any say in that because if you’re going to change the constitution, all it requires is the legislature and then a vote of the people,” he said.

Meanwhile, he said his two college-aged sons, who have grown more aware of gay rights issues while on campus, have tried to persuade him that the government should withdraw from the marriage business altogether, leaving it up to churches and other institutions to define the rite on their own.

“That’s a solid argument,” Walker said. “I personally may not embrace that yet. But that, to me, is a bigger question… I get their concerns.”

The reason he’s seen as a strong candidate in 2016 is because, in theory, he checks all the important boxes: Executive experience, midwestern, fiscal warrior, and … socially conservative. Yet here he is flirting with a libertarian approach to marriage, one that would put gay unions on the same legal footing as straight ones by removing government sanction from the process entirely. What happens to his social-con support in Iowa when Huckabee or Santorum starts clubbing him on that? I guess he figures he’ll worry about that when the time comes. Job one is getting reelected, and talking up a Federal Marriage Amendment in, er, Wisconsin wouldn’t be helpful to that.

Obvious exit question: Is this going to be the party line for Republican candidates in 2016? “I oppose gay marriage personally but am powerless to do (or even say!) anything about it. I trust our state governments and our courts to handle the issue responsibly.” Good enough for me. How about you?


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Not one single LGBTQRSTXYZ group has told it’s devotees to back off , and leave a hardworking American family just trying to make a living alone . Not one. No hashtag campaign in defense of the bakers , not even one gay group saying ” get your cake from another baker”, just seething sadistic hate from this always offended bunch .

burrata on June 13, 2014 at 7:31 PM

Yup.

“At this point, what difference does it make?” — Scott Walker

itsnotaboutme on June 13, 2014 at 7:36 PM

I’m just glad they can’t replicate…but, stay tuned?

vnvet on June 13, 2014 at 7:37 PM

I’m always perplexed–and amused–when TruCons grouse and get all disappointed when politicians behave like politicians.

Because “principle” or something. It’s a delusion that standing on principle inevitably leads to political victory. (Best prepare yourselves for the moment when Teddy Cruz decides that winning is more important than taking a principled but politically poisonous position.)

Walker is just being smart here. The ship has sailed on gay marriage. The rightwing of the Republican Party may want him to run around with his hair on fire screaming about deviants and perverts, but at this point it’s political suicide to do so. The electorate has no interest in making gays second-class citizens, and that’s how it views denying them the ability to marry.

Meredith on June 13, 2014 at 7:37 PM

vnvet: That’s why the whole “Homosexual men are much more likely to be pedophiles” thing is so important. The AMA says that if you are molested as a boy by a male, you are 7 times more likely to turn out gay or bisexual. citation: William Holmes & Gailv Slap, Sexual Abuse of Boys, 280 J. AM. MED. ASSN 1859 (1998)

Thus, men abusing boys is one of the only ways to get more gays.

They will swear up and down that it’s not true, but the evidence is there.

Vanceone on June 13, 2014 at 7:40 PM

It does matter what he thinks. What does he think about freedom of association? Should conservative Christian bakers and photographers be forced to participate in homosexual weddings — or are Muslims the only ones whose religious sensitivities matter? Should kids be reading literature about gay families in public schools?

The ramifications of this issue won’t go away just Truce Republicans want them to.

RightKlik on June 13, 2014 at 6:46 PM

Well said. I’m a big Walker fan, but I wish he had addressed these issues, if he had to say anything at all. I understand what he was trying to do, but he should know better than anyone that they’re going to try to take him down no matter what he says. So rather than playing cutesy, he could have taken a real stand. I still like him though. This is not a deal-breaker.

ncinca on June 13, 2014 at 7:48 PM

Sorry Scott-standing up for traditional marriage against the homosexual/deviant lobby is one of my non-negotiables.

annoyinglittletwerp on June 13, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Sorry Scott-standing up for traditional marriage against the homosexual/deviant lobby is one of my non-negotiables.

annoyinglittletwerp on June 13, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Must I call Meredith?

Judge_Dredd on June 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

He should have compared them to alchy’s.

bazil9 on June 13, 2014 at 8:07 PM

Traditional conservatives also believe that heterosexual marriage needs to be “protected” by the state and they have a special incentive to do so. Neither side is going to give up these arguments any time soon.

dogwoodtiredkat on June 13, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Yeah, but it’s looking like its becoming increasingly meaningless for the state to “protect” anything.

I am one Hobby Lobby decision away from declaring myself an “American subject”. As simply fiat of the executive, the individual provisions of the ECA have no validity trumping express Constitutional rights. In addition, if the argument wins that the state must protect that “religious rights” of HL’s employees to chose the contraception of their choice, we will have illustrated that our judges will embrace any sort of paltry logic to corrode our “free exercise” rights. And the inferred freedom from religion will have taken the place of the “free exercise” and for mindless free-association and victim posturing. The full Dem-ification of the Constitution.

Axeman on June 13, 2014 at 8:09 PM

Judge_Dredd on June 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

Be quiet. *glares*
My first choice is still Perry anyway.

annoyinglittletwerp on June 13, 2014 at 8:10 PM

Of course. Ask the conservative to put it in writing, but let Dems get away with stale waffles.

Same old.

HopeHeFails on June 13, 2014 at 8:11 PM

Obvious exit question: Is this going to be the party line for Republican candidates in 2016? “I oppose gay marriage personally but am powerless to do (or even say!) anything about it. I trust our state governments and our courts to handle the issue responsibly.” Good enough for me. How about you?

Nope.

Stoic Patriot on June 13, 2014 at 8:14 PM

It is a matter of defending the First Amendment against the homo-fascists. “…against all enemies, foreign and domestic…” If you are not strong enough to stand up and fight for my Freedom of Religion, you will not get my vote. That is all.

Goodbye, Walker.

The list of people worth me making the effort to drive 2 minutes to the polls is getting mighty short.

pannw on June 13, 2014 at 8:31 PM

It is a matter of defending the First Amendment against the homo-fascists. “…against all enemies, foreign and domestic…” If you are not strong enough to stand up and fight for my Freedom of Religion, you will not get my vote. That is all.

Goodbye, Walker.

The list of people worth me making the effort to drive 2 minutes to the polls is getting mighty short.

pannw on June 13, 2014 at 8:31 PM

“Freedom of religion” doesn’t mean the government has to govern in lockstep with you personal religious beliefs. If gay marriage goes against your religious beliefs then don’t get gay married. Simple as that.

alchemist19 on June 13, 2014 at 8:53 PM

Good enough for me. How about you?

Works for me. “The Court” may make a decision that I have to abide by, but IT DOES NOT mean that I have to agree with that decision.

I’ll begin to worry when the libs create a “Thought Police” force out of Holder’s Department of “Justice”.

GarandFan on June 13, 2014 at 9:11 PM

This makes me a bigger fan of Scott Walker. The gay marriage ship has sailed — get over it. Had the founding fathers lived in a time anything like ours, the Constitution would expressly forbid government involvement in social issues like gay marriage except to protect the right of individuals to do as they choose. The United States was founded to be a nation of people living mostly free of government intervention. The Republican party needs to concern itself with issues on which it can win the White House in 2016 — the economy and Obama’s disastrous foreign policy, issues that resonate with Americans across a broader spectrum.

The Bringer on June 13, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Good enough for me. How about you?

At this point, it’s what it is…p..ssing against the wind never too clever…so, yeah…

jimver on June 13, 2014 at 9:34 PM

Sorry Scott-standing up for traditional marriage against the homosexual/deviant lobby is one of my non-negotiables.

annoyinglittletwerp on June 13, 2014 at 8:00 PM

++++++++++++++++++++

Agreed. It is a deal breaker for a lot of people. And as Cantor learned, trying to have his cake both ways ain’t gonna work.

fabrexe on June 13, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Some people have courage,some are just politicians.

redware on June 13, 2014 at 10:17 PM

If gay marriage goes against your religious beliefs then don’t get gay married. Simple as that.

alchemist19 on June 13, 2014 at 8:53 PM

I believe he’s not talking about government run religion dictating, but government endorsed diseased infested lifestyle that contributes NOTHING to a civil society.

b1jetmech on June 13, 2014 at 10:22 PM

Sorry Scott-standing up for traditional marriage against the homosexual/deviant lobby is one of my non-negotiables.

annoyinglittletwerp on June 13, 2014 at 8:00 PM

I agree.

Some people have courage,some are just politicians.

redware on June 13, 2014 at 10:17 PM

This.

INC on June 13, 2014 at 10:30 PM

This makes me a bigger fan of Scott Walker. The gay marriage ship has sailed — get over it. Had the founding fathers lived in a time anything like ours, the Constitution would expressly forbid government involvement in social issues like gay marriage except to protect the right of individuals to do as they choose. The United States was founded to be a nation of people living mostly free of government intervention. The Republican party needs to concern itself with issues on which it can win the White House in 2016 — the economy and Obama’s disastrous foreign policy, issues that resonate with Americans across a broader spectrum.

The Bringer on June 13, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Had the founders lived in a time like ourselves, they already would have begun the next revolution since, clearly, the oppressive nature of the State Church of Endorsed Homosexuality is already demanding its tithes in scalps, and it will accept no infidels living under it.

BKennedy on June 13, 2014 at 10:44 PM

alchemist19 on June 13, 2014 at 8:53 PM

You really need some new interests perv.For cripes sake.

CW on June 13, 2014 at 10:51 PM

What is next with you liberals? Will you want the government to make it okay to have sex with animals? Based on your thoughts, some humans can’t help it that they are gay. You say they were born that way. They may have been, but does that make it okay to have sex, and allow a union between the same sex? What does that teach children? What if a human is born with the desire to mate with animals? They were born that way, so based on your ideals, then it would be okay to mate with an animal. Just because a person has the urge to do something, that doesn’t make it right. What about pedophiles. They have the urge to abuse children sexually, they may have been born with that urge. Does that make it okay with you? Clueless SOB’s

F_This on June 13, 2014 at 10:55 PM

Unless one is a Congressman, a state attorney general, or, at least potentially, a state legislator, one’s opinion no longer matters because there are only 2 ways to stop gay “marriage”:

- Win at the Supreme Court
- Pass a federal Constitutional amendment

The last I checked, Walker is not and is not running for Congress, AG or the Legislature, and by the time the next President is sworn in, SCOTUS will have definitively* spoken.

*”Definitively” means either SCOTUS crams it down everybody’s throats or temporarily leave it to the states until the Lawgivers-In-Black reach a majority on SCOTUS, as there is no non-liberal SCOTUS ruling that is ever final.

Steve Eggleston on June 13, 2014 at 7:34 PM

That’s exactly right. If Walker had flip-flopped on the issue he would have said that he now accepts SSM. He hasn’t and so instead of inviting an unnecessary sh*t storm on an issue he has absolutely no control over, he pointed out the obvious: it’s out of his hands. It’s the truth and it denies the media a gotcha moment. As always, he’s playing to win and his track record is pretty damn good already.

Get this through your freakin’ heads: Neither Walker nor anybody else on our side can do anybody ANY good if they don’t get elected (or re-elected). Let others who don’t have anything to lose by taking a hardline talk about this and let Walker PLAY TO WIN!

Walker/Martinez 2016

cicerone on June 13, 2014 at 10:56 PM

It is a matter of defending the First Amendment against the homo-fascists. “…against all enemies, foreign and domestic…” If you are not strong enough to stand up and fight for my Freedom of Religion, you will not get my vote. That is all.

Goodbye, Walker.

The list of people worth me making the effort to drive 2 minutes to the polls is getting mighty short.

pannw on June 13, 2014 at 8:31 PM

Get off your high horse and wake up. This was a question about what he thinks of SSM. Defending the First Amendment and religious freedom is a related but different topic. By refusing to play their little game he has not declined to protect the Constitution or religious freedom. You’re assuming way too much here and, frankly, based on your idiotic comment, if your list is getting “mighty short” it says more about you than them. I get that you need to demonstrate your moral superiority and outrage but in these troubled times what’s needed are clear heads and strategic thinking. There is a political process through which a future president must maneuver and Walker is doing a good job so far. You’ll be much better off if he wins in 2016 than you will be if he stupidly falls on his sword in order to appease your sense of righteousness.

cicerone on June 13, 2014 at 11:07 PM

Walker is correct. His position on gay marriage doesn’t matter anymore. Based on the Supreme Court decision, it’s going to be pretty much impossible for anyone to successfully argue in court that they are harmed by having gay marriage be legal. Hence, if a state legislature doesn’t legalize gay marriage, the federal courts will. And since gay marriage has actually become popular, there isn’t going to be any more federal legislation to stop it, much less a constitutional amendment.

Frankly, I think we need to start working on a constitutional amendment to ban polygamy, because I think that we’re going to start seeing claims of a “right” to marriage involving more than two people soon. After all, if it’s now considered unconstitutional to require marriage to be between one man and one woman, what principle is there to limit marriage to only two people instead of three or four?

J.S.K. on June 13, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Beware of: Walker, Paul, and especially Christie

It’s Cruz or draft someone not running.

Perspicacious on June 13, 2014 at 11:30 PM

That’s why the whole “Homosexual men are much more likely to be pedophiles” thing is so important. The AMA says that if you are molested as a boy by a male, you are 7 times more likely to turn out gay or bisexual. citation: William Holmes & Gailv Slap, Sexual Abuse of Boys, 280 J. AM. MED. ASSN 1859 (1998)

Thus, men abusing boys is one of the only ways to get more gays.

Vanceone on June 13, 2014 at 7:40 PM

Sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

No one else is talking about that, so you shouldn’t!

Seriously, the fact that nearly half of the molestations are committed by less than 3% of the population ought to cause even the most devout libertarian to be alarmed.

itsnotaboutme on June 14, 2014 at 1:20 AM

cicerone on June 13, 2014 at 11:07 PM

My high horse…Oh, for a little self awareness, there cicerone. You vote however you like, pal. I’ll vote for who I chose, and I’m sick and tired of people cowering in the face of the homofascists. And his statement about his college kids and their awareness of ‘gay rights’ changing his thinking. great. just what I want. So again, you vote for him if you like and I’ll vote or not as I like. Fortunately for us both, it’s still a free country and all that. Well, not for bakers and photographers and florists and church pavilion owners…but I can still vote the way I like. For now…

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:20 AM

This makes me a bigger fan of Scott Walker. The gay marriage ship has sailed — get over it.

The Bringer on June 13, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Let’s give up on the slaughter of pre-born babies, too.
The Supreme Court invented the right to murder a few decades before they invented a right for perverts to pervert the definition of marriage.

It’s a good thing Wilberforce didn’t decide he was powerless to do anything about the slave trade.

It’s a good thing Lincoln didn’t say, re. slavery, with Walker & Hillary,

At this point, what difference does it make?

itsnotaboutme on June 14, 2014 at 1:24 AM

I’m always perplexed–and amused–when TruCons grouse and get all disappointed when politicians behave like politicians.

Because “principle” or something. It’s a delusion that standing on principle inevitably leads to political victory. (Best prepare yourselves for the moment when Teddy Cruz decides that winning is more important than taking a principled but politically poisonous position.)

Walker is just being smart here. The ship has sailed on gay marriage. The rightwing of the Republican Party may want him to run around with his hair on fire screaming about deviants and perverts, but at this point it’s political suicide to do so. The electorate has no interest in making gays second-class citizens, and that’s how it views denying them the ability to marry.

Meredith on June 13, 2014 at 7:37 PM

Shorter Meredith: This is not the hill to die on.

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 14, 2014 at 2:48 AM

It is a matter of defending the First Amendment against the homo-fascists. “…against all enemies, foreign and domestic…” If you are not strong enough to stand up and fight for my Freedom of Religion, you will not get my vote. That is all.

Goodbye, Walker.

The list of people worth me making the effort to drive 2 minutes to the polls is getting mighty short.

pannw on June 13, 2014 at 8:31 PM

“Freedom of religion” doesn’t mean the government has to govern in lockstep with you personal religious beliefs. If gay marriage goes against your religious beliefs then don’t get gay married. Simple as that.

alchemist19 on June 13, 2014 at 8:53 PM

I hope you give that straw man a nice burial.

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 14, 2014 at 2:50 AM

There is no “gay marriage”. But I’m giving Walker a break. He has a more immediate election to win – and he’s been a good governor for Wisconsin.

22044 on June 14, 2014 at 3:28 AM

He said it. If he doesn’t think his opinion matters why should anyone else. I see now why he lost his lead. Sounds like somebody wants everyone in the world to wuv him.

As we all know, there is a 97% consensus on teh ghey marriage. Oh wait, that’s the consensus for AGW. Teh ghey marriage is up to 108% (+/- 2% ). Experts are expecting to hit 117% consensus very soon.

How can you get more than 100% consensus? Easy. Build your poll using the standard MSM methodology: 68% D, 30% I, 5% R (from CA & NY). After analyzing the results you get any responses you still need from the overlooked response bag in Al Franken’s trunk. There is always one handy.

Mormon Doc on June 14, 2014 at 5:14 AM

This is what gets me:

have tried to persuade him that the government should withdraw from the marriage business altogether, leaving it up to churches and other institutions to define the rite on their own.

“That’s a solid argument,” Walker said. “I personally may not embrace that yet. But that, to me, is a bigger question… I get their concerns.”

I dont understand this because this is the way it is now, the way it always has been. I dont get the rhetoric and hysteria from the pro-gay marriage crowd. They could ALWAYS get married.

The question is whether state recognizes it and whether certain benefits accrue from that recognition. Civil unions ended the latter issue.

Its just a matter of recognition. Its not like inter-racial marriage , when it was explicitly illegal. Gays can do whatever they want.

I’m from Massachusetts and there have always been gay weddings here, especially in P-Town long before the court rulings.

swamp_yankee on June 14, 2014 at 6:01 AM

I will still take Walker over Paul any day

KBird on June 14, 2014 at 6:14 AM

At some point people are going to realize that making political platforms designed to mollify religious crazies is the reason this country is in a downward spiral. If you disconnected the christians from the conservative movement you would roll right over the left. But as long as issues like gay marriage are considered important, the left will always win.
Grow up

CallousDisregard on June 14, 2014 at 6:51 AM

CallousDisregard on June 14, 2014 at 6:51 AM

“Gay marriage” has never been the issue for me. The new McCarthyism is. The “libertararian” wing are kind of suckers on this point. The by the Left’s framed debate.

When a successful CEO can be fired for supporting traditional marriage. When a NFL player is forced to attend re-education counseling for tweeting the word “gross” on a private account. When kids are openly mocked in classrooms by their own teachers for being Christian.

Remember it wasnt the religious “crazies” that implemented college campus speech codes and criminalized “hate speech”.

swamp_yankee on June 14, 2014 at 7:01 AM

Gay Marriage will be the new Roe v. Wade years from now, if the courts continue to force the issue. Sure, politics takes a lot longer, but once it’s settled, it’s settled. With the courts ruling, like they have, I’m willing to bet that, before long, someone is going to rewrite a Constitution to, not only outlaw SSM, but to make it nearly impossible for the court to change the constitution without a voter referendum.

Right now, liberals are cherry-picking judges to get the verdicts they want and it makes people feel powerless. When people feel powerless things start to happen and I just have a feeling liberals will not like the result.

bflat879 on June 14, 2014 at 8:24 AM

At some point people are going to realize that making political platforms designed to mollify religious crazies is the reason this country is in a downward spiral. If you disconnected the christians from the conservative movement you would roll right over the left. But as long as issues like gay marriage are considered important, the left will always win.
Grow up

CallousDisregard on June 14, 2014 at 6:51 AM

What makes you think that “religious crazies” are the only opponents of SSM? I am neither Cristian nor particularly religious, but I am a big supporter of traditional marriage. This is an important topic to me, and I know I’m not alone.

Haven’t you learned just this week that just because one side declares a war is over that doesn’t mean it is finished? It’s far from being finished.

ncinca on June 14, 2014 at 9:59 AM

Scott Walker’s great-great-great-great grandfather: “My position on the Boston Massacre doesn’t matter anymore.”

Akzed on June 14, 2014 at 10:03 AM

ncinca on June 14, 2014 at 9:59 AM

Just to clarify, if CD thinks opposing SSM makes Christians “religious crazies,” that shows way more than a mere callous disregard.

ncinca on June 14, 2014 at 10:08 AM

the state’s constitutional amendment banning gay marriage

Why is HotAir buying in to the liberal media’s language? No one has ever voted to “ban” homosexual marriage because there is no such thing. All votes have simply been to reaffirm the definition of marriage that was understood by everyone for centuries without needing to be codified.

If marriage has nothing to do with family and procreation, as homosexual activists insist, then why are there any legal formulations that favor the married? For example, why do single people pay taxes at a higher rate than married people? That is discriminatory if marriage has nothing to do with children. Why change the definition of marriage? Just change the tax laws. Of course, homosexual activists aren’t really after tax reform. They want everyone to applaud their lifestyle choice and call it “normal,” which it will never be, by definition.

loveyouall on June 14, 2014 at 10:32 AM

I believe he’s not talking about government run religion dictating, but government endorsed diseased infested lifestyle that contributes NOTHING to a civil society.

b1jetmech on June 13, 2014 at 10:22 PM

Even if we accept your terminology, it’s got nothing to do with his (or anyone’s) freedom of religion. Or when you talk about freedom of religion are you really suggesting a thin-shell of a republic that’s really a theocracy like what the Iranians have?

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

You really need some new interests perv.For cripes sake.

CW on June 13, 2014 at 10:51 PM

Your obsession with my “interest” amuses me enough to keep it up.

I give you credit for being a bit wiser than most of the rest of them though. Most of the rest will try to engage me on substance, and because their position on this issue has no substance (what with their beliefs being at odds with the Constitution and history) I can dispatch their arguments without much effort and expose them for the inconsistent, anti-Constitutional hacks that they are. You though try to make me the issue and you try to make it personal. It’s embarrassing for an adult to be reduced to the level you’ve reduced yourself to, but perhaps less embarrassing than having your ideas deconstructed and the inherent nonsense of them laid bare for all the world to see. Is it better to make yourself look bad than to have someone else do it to you? I don’t know but it appears that you think so so perhaps you’re on to something. Good luck with it in any case.

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 12:57 PM

I hope you give that straw man a nice burial.

There Goes the Neighborhood on June 14, 2014 at 2:50 AM

As you can see, the poor straw man was dead and buried before I showed up in the thread.

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Or when you talk about freedom of religion are you really suggesting a thin-shell of a republic that’s really a theocracy like what the Iranians have?

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

No, you lying ass. We’re talking about the republic that has ALWAYS been the United States of America. Homosexual activity was illegal up until a few short years ago, as you well know. You try to make it sound like suddenly Christians are changing the rules and forcing something new, when in reality it is you homofascists that are changing the Republic with your fallacy of homosexual ‘marriage’. Homosexual ‘marriage’ has never been and will never be a reality in these USofA, because it is nonsense. The Fallacy may become the law of the land, but it will be done over the shredded First Amendment of the Constitution that made this land FREE. You are the lying tyrant, wanting to force your redefinition of marriage on the rest of us. It is you that has more in common with the theocracy of Iran, forcing others to ‘worship’ at your homosexual altar, than any Christian in this country that just wants to be left alone, to uphold marriage as it has ALWAYS been known, and not have to bow down to your perverted whims. You are the theocratic tyrant, squashing religious liberty that you don’t like.

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:03 PM

>Homosexual activity was illegal up until a few short years ago.

Yeah, so was sodomy, birth control, and inter-racial marriage. The good ol’ days!

inklake on June 14, 2014 at 1:13 PM

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:03 PM

And just so I’m clear. Yes, alchemist19, I think you are ‘winning’. So rejoice in your victory. Congratulations. I’m sure you are just giddy over the thought of sticking it to the Christians. But you better make the most of it, for I also think your glee will be very short lived. I am a true believer and unashamed of it. I truly believe you and your ilk are a sign of the end of this once great nation. Our chastisement is coming fast and furious. One look at the Drudge Report and it should be clear for all to see, but some are too blinded by their own arrogance. That would be you, in case you don’t realize it. We’ve been butchering our unborn children for over 40 years. We’ve made it ‘illegal’ to invoke God’s blessing in our schools (and now we have kids ‘butchered’ there too). Only atheistic Darwinism can be taught. We’ve changed the truth of God into a lie. So it is not really surprising that homosex has been embraced and forced upon us. It’s all right there in the warning. For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections…

Well, it also tells us that those who do such things, and those who consent to them, are worthy of death. Oddly enough, God’s blessing and the ‘protection of Divine Providence’ has clearly been removed. We are being invaded, in case you have missed it while busy pushing your evil agenda. All these illegals are streaming in for a reason. Michigan is apparently pretty well a hotbed of Islam, right in the heart of North America. The extremists that Obama released…Ukraine…North Korea…China…The world is about to explode. You think you are so smart, but you are a fool. Wake up, alchemist. Time is short.

Romans 1. Clear as day.

Enjoy your victory. While it lasts.

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Yeah, so was sodomy, birth control, and inter-racial marriage. The good ol’ days!

inklake on June 14, 2014 at 1:13 PM

Yes, with the exception of inter-racial marriage which isn’t a sin, it was the good ol’ days. And glad to see you have no argument with my point that it is you homofascists that are acting like the Iranian theocratic tyrants by forcing your ideology on us. Why do you hate the Constitution?

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:37 PM

No, you lying a**. We’re talking about the republic that has ALWAYS been the United States of America.

I’m just trying to establish what your position is. You position on theocracy was a bit muddled.

Homosexual activity was illegal up until a few short years ago, as you well know.

In some states it was. That’s no longer the case though.

You try to make it sound like suddenly Christians are changing the rules and forcing something new, when in reality it is you homofascists that are changing the Republic with your fallacy of homosexual ‘marriage’.

More that certain people – not all Christians by any means – are trying to enforce rules that we now know better than to be enforcing.

Homosexual ‘marriage’ has never been and will never be a reality in these USofA, because it is nonsense.

Making sense to you isn’t a prerequisite to something being real, which is why homosexual marriage is reality in 19 states and counting.

The Fallacy may become the law of the land, but it will be done over the shredded First Amendment of the Constitution that made this land FREE.

And just like that you’re back to it. What does the First Amendment have to do with other people’s ability to enter into civil marriage?

You are the lying tyrant, wanting to force your redefinition of marriage on the rest of us.

Even if this was true it would still not have anything to do with the First Amendment, which is what I called you out on in the first place.

It is you that has more in common with the theocracy of Iran, forcing others to ‘worship’ at your homosexual altar, than any Christian in this country that just wants to be left alone, to uphold marriage as it has ALWAYS been known, and not have to bow down to your perverted whims.

I’m not trying to force any Christian, any Jew, any Muslim, any Wiccan or any atheist to do something they don’t want to do. Like I said, if you oppose gay marriage then don’t get gay married.

You are the theocratic tyrant, squashing religious liberty that you don’t like.

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:03 PM

Theocrats by definition appeal to the supernatural and I’ve not invoked that at all so sorry but I don’t fit the bill.

Like I said before, your religious liberty doesn’t go so far as you being able to tell other people how to live their lives when they’re doing so in accord with the Constitution. Your religious liberty isn’t squashed when someone somewhere does something contrary to your religion and the state refuses to stone them for it. Nor does your religious liberty grant you the right to be a legal authority unto yourself, creating a special exemption to laws of general applicability just because you (or anyone else) says “Because religion!”

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 1:50 PM

And just so I’m clear. Yes, alchemist19, I think you are ‘winning’. So rejoice in your victory. Congratulations. I’m sure you are just giddy over the thought of sticking it to the Christians.

I don’t relish the thought of anyone having it stuck to them. It would be my hope that people regardless of their religion would understand the Constitutional issues at stake and recognize that even if they have a personal disagreement that the law is the law.

But you better make the most of it, for I also think your glee will be very short lived.

Why’s that?

I am a true believer and unashamed of it. I truly believe you and your ilk are a sign of the end of this once great nation. Our chastisement is coming fast and furious. One look at the Drudge Report and it should be clear for all to see, but some are too blinded by their own arrogance. That would be you, in case you don’t realize it.

Uh oh….

We’ve been butchering our unborn children for over 40 years.

I’m pro-life.

We’ve made it ‘illegal’ to invoke God’s blessing in our schools (and now we have kids ‘butchered’ there too). Only atheistic Darwinism can be taught.

Say what you will about religion, it’s not science and wasn’t arrived at through the scientific method so it’s improper to teach it in a science class.

We’ve changed the truth of God into a lie. So it is not really surprising that homosex has been embraced and forced upon us. It’s all right there in the warning. For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections…

Someone is forcing you to have homosex? Who?

Well, it also tells us that those who do such things, and those who consent to them, are worthy of death. Oddly enough, God’s blessing and the ‘protection of Divine Providence’ has clearly been removed. We are being invaded, in case you have missed it while busy pushing your evil agenda.

If you think the Constitution is evil then you’re free to leave. I’m not sure where you’ll go though.

All these illegals are streaming in for a reason.

That’s an unrelated issue, but yes.

Michigan is apparently pretty well a hotbed of Islam, right in the heart of North America.

What does Dearbornistan have to do with this issue?

The extremists that Obama released…Ukraine…North Korea…China…The world is about to explode. You think you are so smart, but you are a fool. Wake up, alchemist. Time is short.

There have been too many end of times prophesies for me to get excited. Apparently it’s a thing that everyone historically believes they’re living in the end times. If that’s what you too believe I’m not going to presume to be able to talk you out of it.

Romans 1. Clear as day.

Enjoy your victory. While it lasts.

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Personally, after thousands of years of war, genocide and everything else humanity does to itself, if two homosexuals getting a license from one of the other 31 states where gay marriage isn’t yet legal is what pushes God over the edge then God’s priorities don’t make any sense at all. YMMV

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Yes, with the exception of inter-racial marriage which isn’t a sin, it was the good ol’ days. And glad to see you have no argument with my point that it is you homofascists that are acting like the Iranian theocratic tyrants by forcing your ideology on us. Why do you hate the Constitution?

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:37 PM

I’m not trying to force any ideology on anyone. If you want to believe that same-sex marriage is wrong then I’m not going (partly because it’s impossible) to force you to change your mind. If you want to believe interracial marriage is wrong you’re free to cling to that belief as well. You can believe any other wrongheaded thing you like, too. I will point out how your beliefs are contrary to the Constitution, but just because what you belief is unconstitutional doesn’t mean you still can’t believe it. I could no more force my ideology on you than I could force my ideology on guns onto Mayor Doomberg.

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 2:22 PM

alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 2:22 PM

You are such a liar. Never address the fact that you and your fellow homofascists are forcing devout Christians to participate in your evil. Stop with the deceptive ‘if you don’t want to get gay married’ nonsense. You know full well what you and your ilk are doing. And so do the rest of us. Thanks so much for giving me ‘permission’ to still ‘believe’ even while forcing me to choose between living in society and my beliefs. I’m sure the Oregon baker, New Mexico photographer, Colorado florist, and all other decent Americans you are forcing your evil ideology on thank you, too. And do not accuse me of believing interracial marriage is wrong. You know I absolutely said the contrary. You are such a vile liar. You are so immersed in your evil you apparently have no conscience left. You are pathetic.

Talked to your Catholic ex fiance, lately?

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Scott Walker……..the unfat Chris Christie.

I told you he was a Establishment “Conservative” ……. AKA Chamber whore.

PappyD61 on June 13, 2014 at 6:38 PM

Yeah, but both of them threw us anti-public union red meat…we just gotta love ‘em!

I think that was always about the money and crippling the DNC, that is, fewer union members=less union money for Dem campaigns against Republicans.

OK, so what? If these same Republicans that do win and get elected are RINOs, then was it worth alienating unions and public employees?

We need to stop assuming that the GOP tactics are based upon Conservative principles and what is right (and more practical, cost-effective for the state budget, and fair to employees who don’t want to join unions). If these same unions donated heavily to the GOP, Madison never would have happened because Walker would have left them alone.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 14, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Job one is getting reelected, and talking up a Federal Marriage Amendment in, er, Wisconsin wouldn’t be helpful to that.

Why not? The majority of Wisconsin voters(myself included) voted for the constitutional amendment to keep marriage as between one man and one woman.
Scott Walker has made a name for himself in standing strong against destructive left-wing interests. It is being seen as wishy-washy now that wouldn’t be helpful to him. Of course, the way the media reports things does have a hand in that.

Sterling Holobyte on June 14, 2014 at 5:12 PM

On a related note. When homosexual activists say that same-sex marriage will not threaten a person’s way of life or freedoms, just remind them what is happening to churches in Denmark: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2892841/posts

Sterling Holobyte on June 14, 2014 at 5:24 PM

I love how y’all think that just because we’re letting gay couples get the marriage benefits they want, we’re gonna roll over for all the other issues the gay activists are forcing on us. No one should be forced to bake a cake or take pictures of something that offends them or goes against their religion. I’m not confident, though, that the Supreme Court will side with the bakers and picture-takers.

But I think the First Amendment is pretty clear on churches’ rights to set their rules and belief systems how they see fit, and I’m confident the SCOTUS will squash any waaah-we-can’t-get-gay-married-in-their-house-of-worship case that they end up with. If not, I will indeed start looking into other countries we can take refuge in.

TMOverbeck on June 14, 2014 at 6:49 PM

As for Denmark, they brought it upon themselves when they established an official national church.

TMOverbeck on June 14, 2014 at 6:54 PM

Scott Walker is saying what Republicans SHOULD have been saying for the last 6 years when asked by the press about questions on abortion or gay marriage. “None of your damned business”, basically. A Governor can’t make a law anyway so their position doesn’t matter one way or the other.

crosspatch on June 14, 2014 at 8:57 PM

You are such a liar. Never address the fact that you and your fellow homofascists are forcing devout Christians to participate in your evil. Stop with the deceptive ‘if you don’t want to get gay married’ nonsense. You know full well what you and your ilk are doing. And so do the rest of us.

What exactly are which people of what group you’ve assumed I’m a member of forcing you do to?

Thanks so much for giving me ‘permission’ to still ‘believe’ even while forcing me to choose between living in society and my beliefs. I’m sure the Oregon baker, New Mexico photographer, Colorado florist, and all other decent Americans you are forcing your evil ideology on thank you, too.

The anti-discrimination ordinances are completely and totally separate from the marriage issue, and I’m on your side in that one, albeit for different reasons than you. The New Mexico photographer case was years ago and gay marriage has only been legal there for a few months. Are you being deliberately deceptive or are you not smart enough to understand the difference?

And do not accuse me of believing interracial marriage is wrong.

I didn’t accuse you of that. Stop trying to make yourself out to be a victim.

You know I absolutely said the contrary.

I never said you were.

You are such a vile liar.

You’re a vile reading comprehender

You are so immersed in your evil you apparently have no conscience left.

What evil am I immersed in?

You are pathetic.

Talked to your Catholic ex fiance, lately?

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Not that it’s any business of yours but yes. Why?

alchemist19 on June 15, 2014 at 12:21 AM

Why not? The majority of Wisconsin voters(myself included) voted for the constitutional amendment to keep marriage as between one man and one woman.
Scott Walker has made a name for himself in standing strong against destructive left-wing interests. It is being seen as wishy-washy now that wouldn’t be helpful to him. Of course, the way the media reports things does have a hand in that.

Sterling Holobyte on June 14, 2014 at 5:12 PM

Because that was in 2006. About half a minute on Google shows that attitudes in Wisconsin have changed (even if yours have not) to the tune of your position being nearly 20 points underwater. When an issue is polling 55-37 it’s generally not politically advisable to run contrary to a majority of the electorate.

alchemist19 on June 15, 2014 at 12:24 AM

And do not accuse me of believing interracial marriage is wrong.

I didn’t accuse you of that. Stop trying to make yourself out to be a victim.

alchemist19 on June 15, 2014 at 12:21 AM

If you want to believe interracial marriage is wrong you’re free to cling to that belief as well. You can believe any other wrongheaded thing you like, too. I will point out how your beliefs are contrary to the Constitution, but just because what you belief is unconstitutional doesn’t mean you still can’t believe it.
alchemist19 on June 14, 2014 at 2:22 PM

LIAR

pannw on June 15, 2014 at 12:50 AM

LIAR

pannw on June 15, 2014 at 12:50 AM

Clearly you don’t know the meaning of the word “if”.

Which other words don’t you understand?

alchemist19 on June 15, 2014 at 1:13 AM

And just so I’m clear. Yes, alchemist19, I think you are ‘winning’. So rejoice in your victory. Congratulations. I’m sure you are just giddy over the thought of sticking it to the Christians. But you better make the most of it, for I also think your glee will be very short lived. I am a true believer and unashamed of it. I truly believe you and your ilk are a sign of the end of this once great nation. Our chastisement is coming fast and furious.

pannw on June 14, 2014 at 1:26 PM

So you are insane. Whatever.

thuja on June 15, 2014 at 1:32 AM

On a related note. When homosexual activists say that same-sex marriage will not threaten a person’s way of life or freedoms, just remind them what is happening to churches in Denmark: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2892841/posts

Sterling Holobyte on June 14, 2014 at 5:24 PM

The argument that not giving people basic rights constitutes bigotry is unlikely to win over a single person. It is the type of thing that bigots say to each other.

thuja on June 15, 2014 at 1:36 AM

Which other words don’t you understand?

alchemist19 on June 15, 2014 at 1:13 AM

Anything that comes out of your lying mouth.

LawfulGood on June 15, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Anything that comes out of your lying mouth.

LawfulGood on June 15, 2014 at 1:08 PM

My lying mouth? It was me stirring up the “They’re coming for your churches!” nonsense? It was me pretending the shift in public opinion that’s occurred in the last decade didn’t really happen? I was the one who was trying to mislead people about access to the legal status of civil marriage being in any way related to anti-discrimination statutes?

There are some lying mouths around (unless it really is that the guilty parties are too stupid to know any better), but I am not one of them.

alchemist19 on June 15, 2014 at 3:35 PM

This is what I’m concerned about: A gay couple showing up at my church wanting to be married. My pastor must tell them, “We believe marriage has always been defined BY GOD as one man and one woman committed to each other exclusively for life. There is no such thing as ‘gay marriage.’ However, if you want a civil union, we can’t stop you.”

Then that gay couple decides to sue … like the gay couple did to that photographer who refused to take pictures of their “wedding.” The congregation I belong to is small and we cannot afford court costs. Our church council recently amended our constitution in an attempt to protect ourselves from that kind of thing. We can only pray that no God-fearing church will be dragged through the courts because of so-called gay rights.

wutzupdak on June 16, 2014 at 2:37 AM

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