Jon Karl presses Carney over whether Iraq remains one of Obama’s ‘signature achievements’

posted at 5:31 pm on June 12, 2014 by Noah Rothman

In 2010, Vice President Joe Biden called the withdrawal of American forces from Iraq and the ongoing drawdown of that war one of President Barack Obama’s “great achievements.” As recently as Tuesday, incoming White House Press Sec. Josh Ernest called ending the Iraq War one of Obama’s “most important national security priorities” and the neutralization of al-Qaeda a “success.”

With violence exploding in Iraq this week as al-Qaeda affiliated groups seize cities and force whole Iraqi armies to surrender, outgoing White House Press Sec. Jay Carney was grilled by ABC News’ White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl over whether the administration still regards the withdrawal from Iraq as a success.

“Given what we’re seeing now in Iraq, can you still claim those as two of your signature achievements?” Karl asked.

“There is no question that the president pledged to end the war in Iraq, and he did,” Carney replied.

“There’s no war in Iraq right now?” Karl pressed.

“U.S. combat missions in Iraq,” Carney clarified.

He later asserted that “core” al-Qaeda, based in Pakistan and Afghanistan, has been “unquestionably been severely compromised and decimated.”

“Isn’t it equally dangerous, or arguably more dangerous, to have an al-Qaeda-linked group in control of major Iraqi cities than to have them in the mountains of Pakistan?” Karl asked.

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.
.


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Jon Karl presses Carney over whether Iraq remains one of Obama’s ‘signature achievements’

Right now…
Yes..

Tomorrow…
Squirrel……

Electrongod on June 12, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Don’ rush the man….there are so many signature achievements from which to choose. Its really hard to pick just a few.

hawkeye54 on June 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM

When does this doofus leave?

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM

For progressives, this is an achievement.

rob verdi on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

Because they’re totally different, right?

thebrokenrattle on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Jon Karl presses Carney over whether Iraq remains one of Obama’s ‘signature achievements’

Right now…
Yes..

Tomorrow…
Squirrel……

Electrongod on June 12, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Meh, just wait a month or two for what’s coming next and Iraq will look like a trifling affair.

/SNARK

hawkeye54 on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Hey dumb dumb, you stepped down, you can stop spinning.

John the Libertarian on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Toyota: LET’S GO PLACES…

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=c5agj&s=8

Washington Fancy on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

I’m expecting Carney to off himself any day now. I just don’t think he can handle being Obama’s butt boy apologist for much longer.

HotAirian on June 12, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Hey dumb dumb, you stepped down, you can stop spinning.

John the Libertarian on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

He can’t help it, he’s become so accustomed to it.

hawkeye54 on June 12, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Barry will set up in bed and wonder what effect it with have on the 19th hole.

My favorite photo, evah, of the terrorists is the one on Drudge. The one with their color coordinated and logoed trucks. If that doesn’t tell you how asleep at the wheel Barry and Iraq have been I don’t know what does.

Limerick on June 12, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Just in case some one missed this from an earlier post:

John Hayward ‏@Doc_0 14m
This would be a great time for Obama and Kerry to tell the people of Iraq the biggest threat they face is global warming.

Rovin on June 12, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Hey Jay, was the attack in Benghazi on Sept 11 core Al Queada?

Sven on June 12, 2014 at 5:37 PM

You used to be able to say “this the worst week of Obama’s presidency” weekly. It’s going to be “hour” soon.

Chuck Schick on June 12, 2014 at 5:37 PM

So all these guys have to do is change the name they go by and we are all better? “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”, dumbazz.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 5:39 PM

When does this doofus leave?

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM

I wonder that as well.

22044 on June 12, 2014 at 5:39 PM

David Ignatius, on Morning Joe, agrees with WSJ’s Daniel Henninger that Obama Fiddles while World Burns.

aquaviva on June 12, 2014 at 5:43 PM

Jimmah Carter is very pleased he is not longer on the bottom of the pile.

Limerick on June 12, 2014 at 5:43 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

Because they’re totally different, right?

thebrokenrattle on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Carney has the typical view of academics of Iraq and AQ; to them Saddam Hussein and bin Laden could never, ever work together because of their “different religions”.

But this ignores the fact that AQ is active in other countries with comparable religious groups. In their warped world, Iraq in the late 1990s and early 2000s was the only country in the world were AQ would never, ever be.

And Carney also ignores that the Clinton DOJ formally charged Iraq and AQ of working together when they indicted bin Laden in 1998. Article 1, Paragraph 4 to be exact.

Dr. Goebbels would love this guy (and his boss.)

Del Dolemonte on June 12, 2014 at 5:43 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by blonde blue-eyed al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not the swarthy members based in Iraq.

monster_man on June 12, 2014 at 5:43 PM

al-Qaeda affiliated groups seize cities

Nice work, Noah

faraway on June 12, 2014 at 5:46 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq . . . .

And did he add “. . . with the aid and active assistance of the Taliban, five of whose top commanders Obama has recently returned to them, along with millions of U.S. taxpayers’ dollars (which should come in very handy for purchasing arms to use against U.S. soldiers still stationed in Afghanistan).”

AZCoyote on June 12, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

Because they’re totally different, right?

thebrokenrattle on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Of course. They wear totally different hats.

Chuck Schick on June 12, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Sharks from Australia are not dangerous. Just the ones in Florida.

faraway on June 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

We have always been at War with EastAsia.

Johnnyreb on June 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

When does this doofus leave? – Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM

They let him out of Liar’s Rehab already, amazing.

SC.Charlie on June 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

I feel safer already just listening to him stumble through all the various forms of core-this and core-that. I wonder if anyone asked whether Obama is concerned that we’re about to get core-holed by one of these core-groups.

Has anyone else noticed that just before he’s about to let loose a completely unbelievable lie, a sneer extends from the center of his mouth to its (his) left side? It’s as if he’s subconsciously letting us know that even he can’t believe he’s saying it. Watch his mouth at about 1:35 and at about 2:00. What a lying SOS.

BuckeyeSam on June 12, 2014 at 5:50 PM

You used to be able to say “this the worst week of Obama’s presidency weekly. It’s going to be “hour” soon.

Chuck Schick on June 12, 2014 at 5:37 PM

Let’s just call it that.

Doughboy on June 12, 2014 at 5:51 PM

“There’s no war in Iraq right now?” Karl pressed

Hahahahahaha.

Clown President O’Bozo turned tail and fled. Surrender does not end war or anything else. It certainly didn’t make anyone more secure, with the possible exception of our volunteer warrior military.

Jaibones on June 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

Dude, that was years ago; aren’t we talking about more recent history? Why yes – yes, we are.

Midas on June 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM

All Is Well!

BigGator5 on June 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Iraq, Iraq, Iraq!!!!

Why aren’t we talking about something else??????

Electrongod on June 12, 2014 at 5:53 PM

At least Obama had (he claimed) a ‘signature achievement’ in foreign policy. Here was Hillary’s as SOS from earlier this week:

“Oh absolutely, but the most important thing I did was to help restore America’s leadership around the world. We were flat on our back when I walked in there the first time. We were viewed as being untrustworthy, as violating our moral rules and values.”

She couldn’t name any specific achievement, but thanks to her helpful restorative powers, here we are. Leading from behind. Not even.

de rigueur on June 12, 2014 at 5:54 PM

It’s those guys; not those guys.

BKeyser on June 12, 2014 at 5:58 PM

He later asserted that “core” al-Qaeda, based in Pakistan and Afghanistan, has been “unquestionably been severely compromised and decimated.”

How ?
By replenishing them with even more money and weapons ?
Or by giving them 5 of their star killers ?
or by outing the CIA station chief ?

burrata on June 12, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Well, maybe it’s not an achievement achievement.

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

Carney knows three alqaedas.

burrata on June 12, 2014 at 6:01 PM

Well, maybe it’s not an achievement achievement.

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 6:00 PM

More like a milestone millstone achievement.

de rigueur on June 12, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Obama’s disappointed that he can’t simply solve these international problems by showing up at the branch office of a bank with a group of welfare recipients to protest.

BuckeyeSam on June 12, 2014 at 6:04 PM

Battle of the weasels.

Seriously, could there be any more of a DC circle jerk than this?

I’m in DC. It never ceases to amaze me how little intelligence or integrity exists here. I mean, what is even the purpose of these get-togethers? Blah blah blah…

WhatSlushfund on June 12, 2014 at 6:04 PM

Jon Karl presses Carney over whether Iraq remains one of Obama’s ‘signature achievements’
========================

Obama is/was ClueLess,…the MSM/DNC sold the
electorate, that Biden solved the “Foreign Policy
Ticket”,…to ensure Lib/Dem/Progressive Credibility!!!

Work’n out real great eh,…Libya/Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan,

sweat,blood and treasure down the F***ing drain!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biden Brings Long Foreign Policy Experience to Obama’s Presidential Bid
A veteran of the Senate, Biden will try to help Obama tie McCain to Bush’s troubled overseas legacy

By Thomas Omestad
August 25, 2008
***************

n the realm of foreign policy,

Joseph Biden brings to Barack Obama’s presidential bid

something it lacks at the top—long experience with a range of countries,

problems, and foreign leaders.

During his short-lived presidential nomination run—and before he was tapped this weekend to be Obama’s vice presidential running mate—the Delaware senator argued

that the failures in Bush administration foreign policy and troubling trends overseas mean

that foreign policy should be front-and-center in this year’s race for the White House.

Obama’s selection of Biden signals

that the Democrats will indeed try to turn disquiet over falling U.S. standing in the world,

Washington’s troubles in Iraq and Afghanistan,

and other anxiety-producing events

like Russia’s invasion of Georgia to their political advantage.
(More..)
========

http://www.usnews.com/news/campaign-2008/articles/2008/08/25/biden-brings-long-foreign-policy-experience-to-obamas-presidential-bid

canopfor on August 4, 2013 at 6:35 PM

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 8:21 AM

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 6:05 PM

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/iraq-violence/

Iraq
1h
Obama administration pledges $12.8 million more to help internally displaced people and conflict victims in Iraq – @peterbakernyt
see original on twitter.com

Iraq
1h
Stocks hit by Iraq and oil; S&P 500 off for 3rd day – @CNBC
End of alert

Iraq
2h
US Vice President Joe Biden spoke with Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki by phone and expressed US solidarity with Iraq in its fight against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant – via @NBCNews

aghdad, Baghdad, IQ
2h
Top UN official in Iraq tells UN Security Council there is no immediate danger of violence spreading to Baghdad, diplomats say – @Reuters
End of alert

Iraq
3h
Secretary of State John Kerry says he is ‘deeply concerned’ about what is happening in Iraq – @Reuters
End of alert

Bayji, Saladin Province, IQ
3h
White House says oil refinery in Baiji, Iraq, remains in control of government – @Reuters

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 6:07 PM

What galls me is that these so-called “signature achievements” have only succeeded in throwing away what we spent in the lives of our soldiers to secure Iraq and provide the basis for an Arab representative democracy.

I lost brothers in arms over there, and the prospect of having seen my buddies lost for nothing drives my blood pressure up.

We followed orders. We served our country. We liberated a people in a cause that not all of us believed in, but were willing to carry out because that was our damned job.

If this man-child would have done his frickin’ job, we wouldn’t be watching this cluster fark unfold today.

Conservative Mischief on June 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Carney knows three alqaedas.

burrata on June 12, 2014 at 6:01 PM

I loved Steve Martin in The Three Alqaedas!

somewhatconcerned on June 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

You Right Wingnutz always focus on the trifling similarities between one group of Al-Quaida fanatics and another, when in fact they are totally GEOGRAPHICALLY different.

Heck, you crazed extremists probably think the Hell’s Angels and the Diablos share some critical attributes of outlaw biker gangs, while the Grownups In the Room™ know that one group is in Florida and the other in California, so they could share nothing of any consequence. Because geography.

Dolce Far Niente on June 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Balad, Saladin Province, IQ
1m
State Department confirms US contractors in Balad, Iraq, are ‘being temporarily relocated by their companies’; embassy, consulate staffing hasn’t changed – @attackerman

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Because geography.

Dolce Far Niente on June 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Well done.

John the Libertarian on June 12, 2014 at 6:12 PM

“Core” Al Queda. They keep repeating it like it’s some kind of magic talisman, but Americans don’t really care if it’s “Core” or non-core Al Queda — they all want to behead us.

LASue on June 12, 2014 at 6:13 PM

Please let us not forget the wasted lives we got out this debacle. Maybe somehow, someway we can learn some kind of lesson from this. Maybe.

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 6:13 PM

“Oh absolutely, but the most important thing I did was to help restore America’s leadership around the world. We were flat on our back when I walked in there the first time. We were viewed as being untrustworthy, as violating our moral rules and values.”

She couldn’t name any specific achievement, but thanks to her helpful restorative powers, here we are. Leading from behind. Not even.

de rigueur on June 12, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Let’s hope some brave reporter will ask Hillary Clinton to specify which countries in particular she “restored” our relationship with, and what specific actions she undertook to accomplish that restoration.

I’m guessing she won’t say Libya . . . or Egypt . . . or Syria . . . or Honduras . . . or Iraq . . . or Israel . . . . or, oh hell, we could be here all day if we list every country this administration has screwed up.

AZCoyote on June 12, 2014 at 6:15 PM

I want all of you to always remember this. Stop laughing.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Let’s hope some brave reporter will ask Hillary Clinton to specify which countries in particular she “restored” our relationship with, and what specific actions she undertook to accomplish that restoration.

I’m guessing she won’t say Libya . . . or Egypt . . . or Syria . . . or Honduras . . . or Iraq . . . or Israel . . . . or, oh hell, we could be here all day if we list every country this administration has screwed up.

AZCoyote on June 12, 2014 at 6:15 PM

Well, there is one that’s doing “great guns” with us: Mexico.

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

What galls me is that these so-called “signature achievements” have only succeeded in throwing away what we spent in the lives of our soldiers to secure Iraq and provide the basis for an Arab representative democracy.

I lost brothers in arms over there, and the prospect of having seen my buddies lost for nothing drives my blood pressure up.

We followed orders. We served our country. We liberated a people in a cause that not all of us believed in, but were willing to carry out because that was our damned job.

If this man-child would have done his frickin’ job, we wouldn’t be watching this cluster fark unfold today.

Conservative Mischief on June 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Thank you so much. I feel ripped apart by your fallen brothers in arms.

This is exactly why we need to take this country back from empty-suited hypocrites. I don’t care if you’re a D or an R; I’m not trying to politicize this. But things are what they are. The people in Washington (and I use the term “people” loosely) in my opinion anyway, are not serving our interests. I mean, does anyone really believe that Jay Carney cares about our dead?

WhatSlushfund on June 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM

Please let us not forget the wasted lives we got out this debacle. Maybe somehow, someway we can learn some kind of lesson from this. Maybe.

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 6:13 PM

Stupid ROE’s?

Bishop on June 12, 2014 at 6:20 PM

John Hayward ‏@Doc_0 14m
This would be a great time for Obama and Kerry to tell the people of Iraq the biggest threat they face is global warming.

Rovin on June 12, 2014 at 5:36 PM

It’s getting hot in herre

Fallon on June 12, 2014 at 6:22 PM

I want all of you to always remember this. Stop laughing.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Laugh or cry, frightening hubris:

As (Tommy) Vietor put it to me in an email, “Unlike your former boss [President Bush], he has it delivered to his residence in the morning and not briefed to him.”

Fallon on June 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

I want all of you to always remember this. Stop laughing.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Dudette, that was Tommy Vietor being quoted, like, two years ago! But it does raise the question: does Obama read his PDBs before or after he learns about everything else in the news?

de rigueur on June 12, 2014 at 6:32 PM

Ah yes… the new line from Susan Rice to Jay Carney…

CORE Al Qaeda — as opposed to AFFILIATE/OFFSHOOT/”insert-insipid-modifer-here Al Qaeda — has been decimated… because Idiot Preezy managed to be in the White House when ST6 killed a middle-aged dude on dialysis, hiding behind a woman in a fortressed home in Pakistan… that’s it – game over – AQ is done!!

These other dudes are different because they live somewhere else… you know, because CORE AQ lived at CORE AQ Headquarters, don’t you know… NOT Iraq!

Seriously, this administration is made up of the worst scumbags to run roughshod over this country in our history.

dpduq on June 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

When does this doofus leave?

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM

I’m more worried about the bigger doofus boss of this lesser doofus.

I’m still saying: McCain would have been far better with all this if he could have had the votes to win. I always new Obama was going to be a disaster, but but the way things have been going, I can’t think of one thing….just one little thing…that’s gotten better in the past six years.

It’s mind-numbing.

JetBoy on June 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

Stop laughing.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Kinda hard to laugh when flame is shooting out of my ears.

John the Libertarian on June 12, 2014 at 6:35 PM

If I were Clown Carney, I’d develop a serious cough that prevented me from finishing out my last days as Baghdad Bob.

Tard on June 12, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Seriously, this administration is made up of the worst scumbags to run roughshod over this country in our history.

dpduq on June 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

I have trouble categorizing the scumbags from the simply inept. One screws things up on purpose…the other screws things up over stupid decision making. And mixing the two is like mixing gas and fire.

JetBoy on June 12, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Even if I had to lick a toad to get it.

Tard on June 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

de rigueur on June 12, 2014 at 6:32 PM

I doubt he does either.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:42 PM

When does this doofus leave? – Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 5:34 PM

…it may be hard for him to find a job…selling anything!

KOOLAID2 on June 12, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

Ah yes, now that they have more resources, manpower, land, money and control they’ll be less dangerous.

We all know a country with fewer resources, people, and money makes them more dangerous. Why else do we constantly live in fear of Lichtenstein invading the USA and taking over?

Oh, we don’t live in fear of that, and many people had to go look that up to see if it’s a real country (population a shade under 40,000, size just under 62 square miles)?

Weird, by the rules of our government they should be the scariest country on the planet. Everyone else has too many cities, land, power and resources to be an effective military don’t they?

gekkobear on June 12, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Another of a long line of Obama BFDa gone awry.

SteveInRTP on June 12, 2014 at 6:51 PM

I just saw The Won say that what we need to do is throw money at and he’s going to Congress to get it funded.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:52 PM

Thank you so much. I feel ripped apart by your fallen brothers in arms.

WhatSlushfund on June 12, 2014

It doesn’t matter whether they’re a D or an R. Collectively, that entire bunch in DC didn’t finish the mission.

To put it bluntly, they bugged out. They. Quit.

And they put those men and women in the ground for nothing.

Conservative Mischief on June 12, 2014 at 6:53 PM

Carney closed by reminding Karl that the September 11th attacks were organized by al-Qaeda out of the Af-Pak region and not Iraq.

“So we’re totally cool with al-Qaeda conquering other nations except for Afghanistan”

Buddahpundit on June 12, 2014 at 7:10 PM

Even if I had to lick a toad to get it.

Tard on June 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

Thad Cochran’s indecency with animals thread is a couple of posts up.

de rigueur on June 12, 2014 at 7:21 PM

Listen to me, I never licked that toad, Miss Lewinsky…

Tard on June 12, 2014 at 7:22 PM

Is it time yet to bring back the Obamateurisms, or are Ed’s lips still wrapped around Obama’s…

Nutstuyu on June 12, 2014 at 7:46 PM

Well good thing we just dumped the money into that Obamacare bucket sober can take it right back out, right? Right?

#BuckFarack

Nutstuyu on June 12, 2014 at 7:48 PM

I want all of you to always remember this. Stop laughing.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Cindy Munford: OutStanding Intell Grab, very nice!:0

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Iraq violence
22m
Lockheed Martin official confirms all employees are being evacuated from Iraq due to concerns for their safety with escalating violence – @TheRyanParker

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 8:00 PM

The Associated Press @AP · 38m

RAW VIDEO: Iraq militants seize former U.S. base in Tikrit: http://apne.ws/1hSbi5H

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahh_whXhKcU

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 8:10 PM

The Associated Press @AP · 4h

VIDEO: Iraqi Defense Ministry releases video that it says shows gun camera footage of airstrikes on militants: http://apne.ws/1ks9gUu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMA_4MTAqQQ

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 8:12 PM

canopfor on June 12, 2014 at 8:12 PM

I just saw The Won say that what we need to do is throw money at and he’s going to Congress to get it funded.

Cindy Munford on June 12, 2014 at 6:52 PM

Since when does the Dictator-in-Chief need Congress?

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 9:01 PM

Hey dumb dumb, you stepped down, you can stop spinning.

John the Libertarian on June 12, 2014 at 5:35 PM

He can’t help it, he’s become so accustomed to it.

hawkeye54 on June 12, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Can you even imagine being his spouse or kid and living with that spin?!? Even a golf buddy or something?!?

DublOh7 on June 12, 2014 at 10:06 PM

Since when does the Dictator-in-Chief need Congress?

HiJack on June 12, 2014 at 9:01 PM

When he needs to spread the blame of course.

PackerBronco on June 12, 2014 at 10:43 PM