Bloomberg’s “grassroots” gun control group: There have been 74 school shootings since Newtown

posted at 3:01 pm on June 11, 2014 by Erika Johnsen

After the failure of his Mayors Against Illegal Guns group to sway public opinion in favor of more gun control, Michael Bloomberg announced earlier this year that he would be funneling at least $50 million to a new, “grassroots” organization now called Everytown For Gun Safety with the hope of “outmuscling” that scourge of civilized society, the National Rifle Association, and their ill-begotten political influence (because of, you know, their five million official members and millions more sympathizers). In what is only Everytown’s latest display of choosing deliberate exaggerations, lies, and scare tactics over honest conversation, the group recently updated their running list claiming that there have now been at least 74 school shootings just since the massacre at Newtown in December of 2012, which a HuffPo editor then helpfully mapped out:

Here’s the Washington Post‘s version, too. Any school shooting is an unacceptable tragedy for which we should be looking for practical, effective solutions, and an average of more than one school shooting every week is all the more eye-poppingly horrifying. It sounds like we have an outright epidemic on our hands — but, have there really been 74 “school shootings” in just eighteen months? Charles C. Johnsen, a.k.a. @ChuckCJohnson on the Twitters, took a closer look at the various crimes that Everytown has been lumping into its list, and unsurprisingly, quite a few are undeserving of the designation of a “school shooting.” Here’s a sampling of some of his research:

And on, and on, and on, until…

It certainly seems like suicides and gang violence should be delineated from “school shootings” (in which the “mass” is pretty much implied) as separate problems, no? Unless, of course, your real goal is to falsely portray an America in which wildly violent, deadly, and indiscriminate gun violence is increasing — rather than the actual trend in which it has for two decades been sharply decreasing.


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Lets see, take all the guns away and no gun deaths.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:06 PM

hrrrm, that does seem to follow actually. Interesting.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:09 PM

Is that your solution? Confiscation?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:12 PM

You’re right I have no answer to your myth that guns save lives everyday. I can’t imagine why…

Now, I am just blue skying here, but could it be because you are an ill-read closed minded ideologue whose head is so far up his fundament he has turned into a human Klein bottle ?

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:13 PM

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:07 PM

k

Ha ha ha. Yeah, I’m trading in myths and you’re the one who thinks they can disarm criminals. I know, we’ll make it illegal just like drugs!

And I’m sure 3D printing will never prove a problem.

Or black market machinists who can easily produce good firearms.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:13 PM

That leaves 12 instances in just one year of accidental or intentional deaths in schools. To say nothing of the injuries, near misses, trauma, and property damage.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 7:37 PM

So by citing 12, you concede that 74 is a false number?

Roger, pretending AIDS is a gay only disease is an automatic argument loser.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:02 PM

He didn’t say AIDS is a gay-only disease. He said it is spread by a miniscule percentage of the population.

1.1 million people are diagnosed with AIDS, less than 1/2 of 1%, which is exactly what he said. A little less than 4% of the population identify as LGBT in one form or another, so the statistic is not aimed at the gay population.

Guns are just things. Things you don’t actually need, no matter how severe your inferiority complex.

There’s something you need to understand about freedom; it means I decide what I need, not you. This is a very basic concept and not that hard at all to understand.

You know what disables an attacker just fine?

Whatever I determine is required for the situation. Not you. Because I’m the one who has to face it, not you. Use whatever you think best for your own defense. That is your freedom and I honor your right to it.

Or if you accidentally shoot an innocent you most likely haven’t killed them.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:28 PM

So here’s the problem. For this response you specify that shooting an innocent is the issue at hand, that needs to be stopped. And yet, many of these deaths were self-inflicted, and in several instances no one was shot at all. So how is it that you criticize people for supposedly misconstruing a concept so basic as a school shooting, and yet when you discuss the issue your situation mandates that a person be shot?

You value your hobby far more than the lives of people. No matter how many lives would be saved you would never consider giving up that piece of metal huh?

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Well, the value of that is easy to calculate, we just take the number of persons that have been killed by his ownership of the piece of metal, and we can determine how many lives would have been saved.

CW, how many human lives have you taken with your piece of metal?

You really think you can draw a parallel between a person afflicted with an incurable condition and a person choosing to own a weapon?

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:47 PM

For someone who claims it’s just as simple as “a school shooting is a school shooting”, even if there are no “assault rifles” [sic], no students, and not so much as an injury, and for someone who claims that action on this issue is contingent upon you caring that people die, why do you criticize someone for making the point that dead is dead, and the government must take action to stop people from dying, your rights be damned?

Tlaloc, it just doesn’t matter to you.

One of these is relevant to modern life, the other is a historical curiosity only.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:55 PM

There you have it, the natural right to life is a historical curiosity, you actually have no rights except what the government deigns to allow you.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Now, I am just blue skying here, but could it be because you are an ill-read closed minded ideologue whose head is so far up his fundament he has turned into a human Klein bottle ?

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:13 PM

Hey, man the FBI makes up all those stats.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:16 PM

Tialoc is so stupid that he’s never heard of quarantine. He doesn’t realized that quarantine has a history of being used against someone’s will. Their rights are infringed for the good of society.

The reality is that gun ownership is a Constitutional right. If you want to infringe it, then you better have a much better reason than you’re trying.

rogerb had proven that your approach is flawed. He’s made you look like an idiot.

blink on June 11, 2014 at 9:08 PM

1) Quarantines are not 100% effective. never will be.

2) The 2nd is an anacronism that serves no purpose, and hey by a originalist eading it only entitles you to muzzle loading black powder muskets, so enjoy those…

3) Funny, I don’t feel like roger’s argument has been particularly effective. he keeps attacking the idea of treating disease victims like sociopaths, I’m not really getting a sense that this argument works with anyone not desperate to justify their fetish.

YMMV.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:16 PM

Is that your solution? Confiscation?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:12 PM

Silly rabbit, I was just remarking on gwelf’s idea.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:17 PM

YMMV.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:16 PM

It’s a small question. Simple, direct. You’re ignoring it.

So, I’ll ask again. What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:18 PM

More fun?
 
As Tlaloc noted, gun owners are EXTREMELY safe, with only 8,583 deaths from 116 million people with access to guns in 2011.
 
For gun nuts to be as dangerous as the 1,144,500 (one million) people in the U.S. with HIV, the gun owners would have to kill 813,260 people each year.
 
So nearly a million people dead each year before gun owners were as dangerous as the HIV/AIDS population.

rogerb on June 11, 2014 at 9:19 PM

The gun nut can disarm anytime

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:58 PM

This is a great solution. The gangs will instantly disarm as soon as you announce that they should.

blink on June 11, 2014 at 9:15 PM

Hey idiot were just going to send in the police to take them away.

Hey, wait a minute, why don’t the police just disarm the criminals right now?

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:19 PM

Or black market machinists who can easily produce good firearms.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:13 PM

And black market machinists need not be of “machinist” caliber. With access to a machine shop I could turn out quality firearms from memory. They sell 80% frames that have no serial number and are completely legal. The only way to ban guns in Tlaloc’s world would be to ban chunks of metal. What a goddamned idiot.

Judge_Dredd on June 11, 2014 at 9:19 PM

I will miss Erika Johnsen’s posts.

She was a very hard-working blogger here.

bluegill on June 11, 2014 at 9:20 PM

A bit more fun:
 
If the “have HIV” population could figure out a way to be as safe as the “have gun” population they would’ve only lost 16,025 people to HIV/AIDS since 1981.
 
It’s actually 8000 a year, though.

rogerb on June 11, 2014 at 9:21 PM

It’s incredible to realize gun owners are that safe, isn’t it Tlaloc?

rogerb on June 11, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Because that argument is, to be blunt, idiotic. An HIV patient is suffering an affliction, an incurable affliction.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:58 PM

So the intent of the patient matters more to you than people dying?!?!

Tlaloc, it just doesn’t matter to you.

Schaef I’m not going to repeat the last two pages of arguments just for you. Go read them if you care.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:03 PM

The irony here is, you DID repeat your prior arguments, because previously you also declined to explain the differences between an “assault rifle” and a handgun, such that one must be used only for mass death, and handguns serve other purposes.

Similarly, you didn’t clarify what constitutes a shooting to you. You keep referring to persons getting shot and dying, but you criticize people for questioning the inclusion of events where neither of those things happen. Either you want me to understand your position, or you don’t; your lack of response doesn’t speak well to which it is.

Lastly, you haven’t explained your callous disregard for deaths by knife. Tlaloc, it just doesn’t matter to you.

Yeah I mean we all know guns spontaneously occur in nature.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:07 PM

So your claim to the difference is that people contract AIDS spontaneously, and not through transmission between persons?

Wow, something new every day…

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Tlaloc –

Have I been rude to you? Condescending? Insulting?

I don’t believe so. Yet you won’t answer me.

Why won’t you answer my question?

What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Y’all have fun, and thanks for your help, Tlaloc.

rogerb on June 11, 2014 at 9:23 PM

1) Quarantines are not 100% effective. never will be.

2) The 2nd is an anacronism that serves no purpose, and hey by a originalist eading it only entitles you to muzzle loading black powder muskets, so enjoy those…

3) Funny, I don’t feel like roger’s argument has been particularly effective. he keeps attacking the idea of treating disease victims like sociopaths, I’m not really getting a sense that this argument works with anyone not desperate to justify their fetish.

YMMV.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:16 PM

Yeah, it serves no purpose.

Except for all the things we’ve pointed out to you that you have no answer for.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:24 PM

1) Quarantines are not 100% effective. never will be.

But quarantining the guns is totally going to work.

And still these people die of AIDS by the thousands, but it just doesn’t matter to you.

3) he keeps attacking the idea of treating disease victims like sociopaths, I’m not really getting a sense that this argument works with anyone not desperate to justify their fetish.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:16 PM

This from the person who consistently portrays anyone who possesses any firearm for any reason as a sociopath. Even though the use of those firearms to murder another person on a year-on-year basis is near-zero, to three decimal places.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 9:26 PM

So by citing 12, you concede that 74 is a false number?

No since 12 was the number with deaths (not including a shooter or suicide) and 74 was all shootings. Is this really that hard to understand?

He didn’t say AIDS is a gay-only disease. He said it is spread by a miniscule percentage of the population.

Already dealt with, try to catch up.

There’s something you need to understand about freedom; it means I decide what I need, not you. This is a very basic concept and not that hard at all to understand.

*shrug*
You can decide you need a flamethrower, doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t stop you from getting one. You need to understand freedom has limits. Go scream “fire” in a crowded theater if you don’t believe me.

Whatever I determine is required for the situation. Not you. Because I’m the one who has to face it, not you. Use whatever you think best for your own defense. That is your freedom and I honor your right to it.

Or you could be a bit smarter and not leave the decision up to a panicked victim but take steps ahead of time. You know…if you like good outcomes.

So here’s the problem. For this response you specify that shooting an innocent is the issue at hand, that needs to be stopped. And yet, many of these deaths were self-inflicted, and in several instances no one was shot at all. So how is it that you criticize people for supposedly misconstruing a concept so basic as a school shooting, and yet when you discuss the issue your situation mandates that a person be shot?

ALl I was saying was given the huge number of accidental shootings if the weapon discharged were nonlethal that seems kind of like a good thing. Let me know where that that train of thought lost you.

Well, the value of that is easy to calculate, we just take the number of persons that have been killed by his ownership of the piece of metal, and we can determine how many lives would have been saved.

No. Very wrong. You also have to take into account the number of lives lost in catering to his hobby, i.e. by making guns so easily available that every criminal and nutxcasecan easily get an arsenal. Those are called externalized costs and they often add up rather fast. You may have never killed another person but by demanding a society awash in weapons you DO have blood on your hands.

For someone who claims it’s just as simple as “a school shooting is a school shooting”, even if there are no “assault rifles” [sic], no students, and not so much as an injury, and for someone who claims that action on this issue is contingent upon you caring that people die, why do you criticize someone for making the point that dead is dead, and the government must take action to stop people from dying, your rights be damned?

I have to admit I am floored how many of you guys think that trying to create a false equivalency between disease victims and gun owners is a winning argument. Even after taking the argument three times now you keep jumping on the rhetorical titanic and screaming “All ahead FULL!”

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:28 PM

So, I’ll ask again. What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:18 PM

That’s so weird, you are like the third person with the same name to ask that question.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:29 PM

2) The 2nd is an anacronism that serves no purpose, and hey by a originalist eading it only entitles you to muzzle loading black powder muskets, so enjoy those…

Wow, talk about digging deep into the old chestnuts. If you are going to go there, it also entitles me to cannon and armed ships.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:30 PM

You may have never killed another person but by demanding a society awash in weapons you DO have blood on your hands.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:28 PM

What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:31 PM

More fun?

As Tlaloc noted, gun owners are EXTREMELY safe, with only 8,583 deaths from 116 million people with access to guns in 2011.

For gun nuts to be as dangerous as the 1,144,500 (one million) people in the U.S. with HIV, the gun owners would have to kill 813,260 people each year.

So nearly a million people dead each year before gun owners were as dangerous as the HIV/AIDS population.

rogerb on June 11, 2014 at 9:19 PM

Since you guys love this line of argument so much, fine let’s do it.

I fully support research to cure HIV.

Do you support curing gun owners of their affliction?

Hey wait, the cure for that one is free! And can be done immediately. Gosh that is great, we can then take all that effort we used to waste on guns and focus it on disease research.

Hey maybe you guys were on to something this whole time!

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM

That’s so weird, you are like the third person with the same name to ask that question.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Yet you haven’t answered any of us.

What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM

Wow, talk about digging deep into the old chestnuts. If you are going to go there, it also entitles me to cannon and armed ships.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:30 PM

Sure, why not. But only 18th century cannons and ships.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:33 PM

Yet you haven’t answered any of us.

What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM

I answered the first guy, the rest you just won’t go back and read what I said.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:34 PM

Yet you haven’t answered any of us.

What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM

I answered the first guy, the rest you just won’t go back and read what I said.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:34 PM

You have not answered. What is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:35 PM

You really are an idiot. Confiscations are not 100% effective either. Bans are not 100% effective either. Killings of HIV infected people are not 100% effective either. Never will be. Since when is 100% effective a requirement for a solution?

Fair enough. But when roger is talking about death camps for HIV patients I require it to be a damn good solution for a huge problem before it’s even worth considering. Well gun violence is a huge problem and there is a 99.999995% solution out there if we think really hard.

Then Internet and TV journalists have no freedom of the press. And if it’s an “anacronism (sic)” then get it amended. Good luck.

Freedom of the press isn’t an anachronism, the 2nd is.

Is this your first time debating this topic? You certain aren’t very good at it.

blink on June 11, 2014 at 9:26 PM

Then why am I winning?

Look I’m sorry fact make you all butthurt, but the adult thing is to deal with them, not to start yelling “LALALALALAIFICANTHEARYOUIWINTHEARGUMENTLALALALA”

your position is devoid of support and leads to thousands of deaths a year. Don’t you feel any responsibility for the grievous harm you cause?

Just a smidge? Maybe enough to stop cleaving to an amendment that has no purpose in modern life (or do you really think you and your rifle are a viable military force on the battlefield?) and causes immense harm?

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM

Or black market machinists who can easily produce good firearms.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:13 PM

I resent the racist connotation.
III/0317

Sgt Stryker on June 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM

Sure, why not. But only 18th century cannons and ships.

Please quote for me exactly where in the Constitution any right has a specified technological limitation.

While we are at it, what, to you, is the moral difference between this guy and an Adam Lanza ?

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Ha ha. You are so stupid. You’ve been forced into supporting a required quarantine for HIV patients. You can’t continue until you acknowledge supporting a quarantine. It’s the only way for you to even have a chance to continue this debate.

blink on June 11, 2014 at 9:37 PM

Um…I really haven’t.

I can’t imagine how you think you guys commiting rhetorical hari-kiri has somehow wounded me

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Then freedom of the press is limited to 18th century printing presses.

blink on June 11, 2014 at 9:38 PM

Please tell me you aren’t one of those people who thinks “the press” refereed to literal presses…

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:42 PM

No since 12 was the number with deaths (not including a shooter or suicide) and 74 was all shootings. Is this really that hard to understand?

No, I think I totally understand you now. You are not trying to save anyone’s lives, like you claimed. What REALLY matters to you is to stop any firearm from being discharged for any reason, even if no one is ever so much as injured by a firearm ever again.

Thank you for clarifying.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 9:43 PM

Please quote for me exactly where in the Constitution any right has a specified technological limitation.

While we are at it, what, to you, is the moral difference between this guy and an Adam Lanza ?

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Hey I don’t ascribe to the lunacy that is originalism. I’m just saying, for those that do, including no small number of gun nuts, that originally the 2nd was intended to guarantee your right to muskets and that’s it.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:43 PM

your position is devoid of support and leads to thousands of deaths a year. Don’t you feel any responsibility for the grievous harm you cause?

So, what is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:44 PM

No, I think I totally understand you now. You are not trying to save anyone’s lives, like you claimed. What REALLY matters to you is to stop any firearm from being discharged for any reason, even if no one is ever so much as injured by a firearm ever again.

Thank you for clarifying.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 9:43 PM

You jump from “no one died” to “no one was injured” even though the later is not the case.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:44 PM

So, what is your solution?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:44 PM

Someone programmed a bot to spam this question.

And with that I bid you a goodnight. I’m sure we’ll be very soon arguing this same thing over the corpses of some more kids. But hey, it sure is worth it, amirite?

Toodles.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM

But when roger is talking about death camps for HIV patients…

Ah, now we get to the lying about what others said.

Freedom of the press isn’t an anachronism, the 2nd is.

The democrats seem to think so.

Then why am I winning?

Making stuff up and ignoring evidence contrary to your talking points is not “winning”, Hotrod.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM

Someone programmed a bot to spam this question.

And with that I bid you a goodnight. I’m sure we’ll be very soon arguing this same thing over the corpses of some more kids. But hey, it sure is worth it, amirite?

Toodles.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM

Wouldn’t make much sense to argue. You haven’t stated your position.

What is your solution to the gun violence in this country?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:49 PM

Please tell me you aren’t one of those people who thinks “the press” refereed to literal presses…

Another point lost on Captain Obtuse. The point is that if the 2nd is limited to the technology of the time, then why not the 1st ? If it is, that leaves handset type, hand written communications, semaphore flags, signal mirrors, smoke signals, and voice.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 9:49 PM

Why wouldn’t he answer my question? Was it that hard?

Or is he just a coward?

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 9:51 PM

This isn’t rocket science

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 7:25 PM

You proved it in this post. Alinsky taught you well!

F+

Del Dolemonte on June 11, 2014 at 9:57 PM

Hey I don’t ascribe to the lunacy that is originalism…

OK, so if you don’t ascribe to originalism, and the 2nd amendment says one can keep and bear arms, then one is, per you, not confined to a musket (or rifle, not that I expect you to know the difference), and can own any weapon.

BTW, for your education, pearls before swine though that may be, the earliest machine gun was designed in 1718.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Please tell me you aren’t one of those people who thinks “the press” refereed to literal presses…

Freedom of the Press was repealed by the 18th Amendment and restored by the 21st. But we still have dry counties don’t we?

kcewa on June 11, 2014 at 10:00 PM

31 school shootings in 2013, 15 of which had 1 or more fatalities. In one case the only fatality was a potential killer. In 2 others they were suicides. That leaves 12 instances in just one year of accidental or intentional deaths in schools. To say nothing of the injuries, near misses, trauma, and property damage.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 7:37 PM

More kids die every year participating in school sponsored organized sports. Let’s get rid of those as well.

HumpBot Salvation on June 11, 2014 at 7:54 PM

Don’t confuse the Unit with Facts. It is not programmed to respond in that area!

Del Dolemonte on June 11, 2014 at 10:01 PM

Why wouldn’t he answer my question? Was it that hard?

Or is he just a coward?

His song.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 10:03 PM

Businesses have armed security guards. Why don’t schools?

kcewa on June 11, 2014 at 10:03 PM

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014

Whew, the stupid is strong with this one. Hard to know where to begin this far along in the thread, but you guys have done a really great job of wack-a-troll on it today.

cleaving to an amendment that has no purpose in modern life (or do you really think you and your rifle are a viable military force on the battlefield?)

Answer this hypothetical, as to your “no purpose” inanity – You and your young daughter are leaving a theater one night, and a pair of crazed pit bulls leap from the shadows and begin to viciously attack her. She screams horribly for her life as they begin tearing the flesh from her bones, while all you can do is stand there with your d*ck in your hand, instead of a firearm.

If she survived the mauling, how would you explain her disfigured face the rest of your life, knowing you *COULD HAVE* stopped her savage mauling in seconds, had you been only been responsibly armed? What if they tore her throat open and she bled out, staring into your useless eyes as her life drained out onto the sidewalk in front of you?

This only scratches the surface as to “purpose” for the second amendment.

Harbingeing on June 11, 2014 at 10:04 PM

The constitution doesn’t guarantee you a gun for self defense, which you really should know.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 8:28 PM

The Constitution certainly does guarantee life, liberty and a pursuit of happiness. Seems to be silent on the tools I may use.

F-

(Sorry Del. I stole your grading system)

Judge_Dredd on June 11, 2014 at 8:31 PM

No problem, this Unit needs serious re-programming.

Del Dolemonte on June 11, 2014 at 10:06 PM

Already dealt with, try to catch up.

Yes, your persistent sarcasm certainly underlines your contriteness on the issue.

You can decide you need a flamethrower, doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t stop you from getting one. You need to understand freedom has limits.

I understand that you had to come up with a hyperbolic example. If the gun example was sufficient on its face, you wouldn’t have needed to up the ante.

Go scream “fire” in a crowded theater if you don’t believe me.

That demonstrates that your right does not allow you to infringe on the rights of others.

So the solution, then, is to limit the right to bear arms in such a way that it does not infringe on your right to life and liberty. OH WAIT, I KNOW! What if we made it against the law to shoot you with that gun?!? Then we would achieve the same result as the damage done by inciting panic with our speech!

But then, you don’t believe in the right to life and liberty anyway, since the Declaration of Independence is not law or something.

Or you could be a bit smarter and not leave the decision up to a panicked victim

Strangely you fail to grasp the irony of claiming to have the brains to see that people are not smart enough to come to their own conclusions.

ALl I was saying was given the huge number of accidental shootings if the weapon discharged were nonlethal that seems kind of like a good thing.

And all I was saying was that, given the statistics that you are supporting as so obviously correct as to be unassailable, it seems that the weapons you seek to confiscate from the populace ARE largely non-lethal.

You also have to take into account the number of lives lost in catering to his hobby, i.e. by making guns so easily available that every criminal and nutxcasecan easily get an arsenal.

CW did not “make guns easily available” nor were laws relaxed to accommodate him.

As for the ease of acquisition, I would remind you that in the multiple homicides that everybody except you is concerned about, the perpetrators either stole their weapons or passed a background check. Background checks stopped the Newtown shooter from getting a weapon; he killed his own mother to steal some. Santa Barbara shooter passed a background check in gun-hating California.

I mean, the problem as you describe it is that criminals and nutcases get “an arsenal” (whatever that means). And from what I can tell your solution to that is to let nobody have guns because anachronism. You talk about fire in a theater but you don’t claim the solution is not to let anybody talk.

how many of you guys think that trying to create a false equivalency between disease victims and gun owners is a winning argument.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:28 PM

If school shootings are school shootings, then death is death. Tlaloc, it just doesn’t matter to you.

Do you support curing gun owners of their affliction?

Hey wait, the cure for that one is free! And can be done immediately.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:32 PM

Hey, look, everyone! Mr. Externalized Costs says that law enforcement and mass confiscation of firearms costs no money and takes no time!

But when roger is talking about death camps for HIV patients I require it to be a damn good solution for a huge problem before it’s even worth considering.

Well, by your count, 8,000 dead a year is a huge problem.

So either quarantining the million sick is a damn good solution, or quarantining the guns of a hundred million persons is ineffective. Take your pick.

Don’t you feel any responsibility for the grievous harm you cause?

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM

Blink, name one person you have harmed with your firearm(s).

Please tell me you aren’t one of those people who thinks “the press” refereed to literal presses…

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:42 PM

What’s wrong with that? You’re one of those people that thinks “arms” refers only to guns.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 10:10 PM

You jump from “no one died” to “no one was injured” even though the later is not the case.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:44 PM

I didn’t jump to anything. Mr. Criticing the Reading Comprehension of Others missed the numerous times I pointed out that the article in question contains examples of both.

So, yes, the latter is definitely the case, making you either ignorant or dishonest. But hey, a school shooting is a school shooting, right? Even when no persons were shot. Your rule, not mine.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM

If you’re still around, I’d like you to know that one of those hated, hideous guns saved my father’s life.

My father had MS and was bed-ridden. One night, two delinquents thought it would be jolly fun to break into my parent’s home through the back door and attack what they assumed was a crippled old man all alone in the house (my mother was at work). They got almost to his bedroom door where my father sat silently holding his gun, pointed in their direction. BTW, my father had served in the Korean War, and had been decorated as a sharp-shooter. I doubt he would have missed if they’d gotten too far. As it was, he heard them yell, “let’s get out of here!” and they beat it out the back door. He called my spouse and I after they left and we called the cops, who got there just after we arrived. The little darlings had left a baseball bat they were going to bean my father with lying in the hall.

If my father hadn’t had his gun, he’d probably be dead, cracked over the head with a baseball bat, and the house would have been ransacked. As it was, he lived seven more years to the joy of his family before the MS took him too soon, and those miscreants never came back.

theotherone on June 11, 2014 at 10:13 PM

I’m sure we’ll be very soon arguing this same thing over the corpses of some more kids.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM

We’ll also be arguing it over the corpses of stabbing victims, auto accident victims, drowning victims and former AIDS patients.

But your refusal to outlaw anything that leads to the death of other people demonstrates how you don’t care about other people.

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 10:14 PM

Funny, I don’t feel like roger’s argument has been particularly effective. he keeps attacking

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:16 PM

OK, just scrolled thru all 4 pages of this thread’s comments, and approximately 95% of your responses to other posters here contain an Alinskyesque gratuitous attack impugning the intelligence of said other commenter.

He taught you well. Did you ghost-write Hillary’s book too?

F-

Del Dolemonte on June 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM

cleaving to an amendment that has no purpose in modern life (or do you really think you and your rifle are a viable military force on the battlefield?)

This one always leaves me gobsmacked that there still are idiots who spout this crap and have absolutely no clue about whom we have been fighting for the last 13 years. Either that, or I completely missed seeing the Taliban tanks and air force.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 10:18 PM

The sad little troll still rolling with his dishonesty. What a loser.

CW on June 11, 2014 at 10:23 PM

That’s just as valid as your pathetically stupid claim that the “arms” referred to muskets.

Doesn’t matter, blink, look up the 1718 Puckle Gun, it had rapid change magazine round clips, and the 1775 Belton Flintlock – it had a 20 round high capacity magazine and probably a shoulder thing that goes up.

Seeing that a Pennsylvania rifle was an upgraded musket, an M4 is simply an upgraded Belton.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 10:26 PM

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM

If you’re still around, I’d like you to know that one of those hated, hideous guns saved my father’s life. …

theotherone on June 11, 2014 at 10:13 PM

He’s not … and he wouldn’t care, anyway.

And good for your father! (And your family … my dad passed from ALS.)

Alien on June 11, 2014 at 10:31 PM

That’s just as valid as your pathetically stupid claim that the “arms” referred to muskets.

Doesn’t matter, blink, look up the 1718 Puckle Gun, it had rapid change magazine round clips, and the 1775 Belton Flintlock – it had a 20 round high capacity magazine and probably a shoulder thing that goes up.

Seeing that a Pennsylvania rifle was an upgraded musket, an M4 is simply an upgraded Belton.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 10:26 PM

I noticed he never got around answering me about his saying the printing press ending feudalism, which it didn’t.

Ah well.

itsspideyman on June 11, 2014 at 10:34 PM

Whoa, somebody from tlaloc’s side of the ring needs to throw in the towel. He’s getting his azz handed to him.

So I take it that he is all for ending school sponsored organized sports since more kids die participating in them than by shootings? You know,for the children.

HumpBot Salvation on June 11, 2014 at 10:36 PM

It’s quite obvious that Tialioc doesn’t hate death or even murder.

What real “progressive” doesn’t ? I am confident he has some Che themed merchandise and clothing.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 10:41 PM

No problem, this Unit needs serious re-programming.

Del Dolemonte on June 11, 2014 at 10:06 PM

He got me on a procedural error. But of course my Madison/European law statement went unrebutted. Much like my assessment of moral pontificating from a libtard. (Not really a procedural error, more an error of what I’ve forgotten about civics is more than you will ever know, Tlaloc, but you’re smart enough to get the idea)

Judge_Dredd on June 11, 2014 at 10:44 PM

1 in 4 new HIV infections occurs in youth ages 13 to 24 years
Calendar

About 12,000 youth in 2010, or about 1,000 per month, were infected with HIV.

The greatest number of infections occurred among gay and bisexual youth. Nearly half of all new infections among youth occur in African American males.

About 60% of all youth, with HIV do not know they are infected, are not getting treated, and can unknowingly pass the virus on to others.

Got that Tlaloc? 7200 kids are walking around with a loaded gun…potentially handing a death sentence to others. Where do you think the majority of these new cases are coming from. Blood transfusions? This seems this is a crisis that should be addressed, right? Oh wait, it’s been widely known how to prevent HIV since the mid-80′s. Hell it’s taught in schools. Now what?

HumpBot Salvation on June 11, 2014 at 10:48 PM

Sorry to go so far back, but I’ve had a lot to do this afternoon since I last posted, and I just had to respond to this one.

They lie often. They claim Obama is going to set up a “gun registry.” (no)

beverlyfreaks on June 11, 2014 at 5:26 PM

If Obama setting up a gun registry is a lie, please explain what the Dem followers of Obama are doing in New York and Connecticut – i.e. the gun registration requirements.

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 10:53 PM

It’s a good thing no one is ever a victim of a violent crime in places with strong gun control laws, like the UK.

Good Solid B-Plus on June 11, 2014 at 10:55 PM

Why do we need cars and trucks? So that Tlaloc can pay three bucks less for his 24-pack of Mountain Dew?

Why don’t we ban all private transportation and only run public transportation at speeds where an accident will be non-lethal? Let me guess, your convenience is more important than the lives of children? Why do you want more dead kids, Tlaloc?

Good Solid B-Plus on June 11, 2014 at 10:57 PM

If you’re still around, I’d like you to know that one of those hated, hideous guns saved my father’s life. …

theotherone on June 11, 2014 at 10:13 PM

As happens on a daily basis:
http://bearingarms.com/south-st-louis-father-guns-two-hostage-taking-felons-holding-daughter-gunpoint/

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 10:59 PM

Well, he11 – this site is full of news reports of “guns saving lives” – the lives of innocent law-abiding (potential) victims that is.
The criminals generally don’t fair well when they try to attack armed victims…
http://bearingarms.com/category/guns-saving-lives/

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:04 PM

Why do we need cars and trucks? So that Tlaloc can pay three bucks less for his 24-pack of Mountain Dew?

Why don’t we ban all private transportation and only run public transportation at speeds where an accident will be non-lethal? Let me guess, your convenience is more important than the lives of children? Why do you want more dead kids, Tlaloc?

Good Solid B-Plus on June 11, 2014 at 10:57 PM

And since they did not exist when the 1st Amendment was written, we obviously don’t need or have a right to computers, telephones, radios, televisions, telegraphs, electronic megaphones, PA systems, video cameras, etc, etc….

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:08 PM

Dear Tlaloc,
Those using guns in self defense prevent 500 rapes and 1100 murders a day.
The end.

NotCoach on June 11, 2014 at 11:08 PM

Well, see – all those women should just learn to lay back and enjoy it.
That IS the typical answer from Dem politicians / gun-grabbers isn’t it?

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22731898/colorado-sen-evie-hudak-disrespected-rape-victim

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:11 PM

Map it.

Bmore on June 11, 2014 at 11:13 PM

Why are solo midnight suicides or evening gang murders that happen to take place on education property deserving of more attention than if they took place anywhere else?

Ricard on June 11, 2014 at 11:13 PM

Dear Tlaloc,
Those using guns in self defense prevent 500 rapes and 1100 murders a day.
The end.

NotCoach on June 11, 2014 at 11:08 PM

Well, see – all those women should just learn to lay back and enjoy it.
That IS the typical answer from Dem politicians / gun-grabbers isn’t it?

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22731898/colorado-sen-evie-hudak-disrespected-rape-victim

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:11 PM

Besides, women just can’t be trusted with guns anyway…

“It’s why we have call boxes, it’s why we have safe zones, it’s why we have the whistles. Because you just don’t know who you’re gonna be shooting at,” Salazar said in the debate last Friday. “And you don’t know if you feel like you’re gonna be raped, or if you feel like someone’s been following you around or if you feel like you’re in trouble when you may actually not be, that you pop out that gun and you pop … pop a round at somebody.”

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_22631166/no-gotcha-joe-salazar-rape-comments

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:14 PM

Well, see – all those women should just learn to lay back and enjoy it.
That IS the typical answer from Dem politicians / gun-grabbers isn’t it?

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22731898/colorado-sen-evie-hudak-disrespected-rape-victim

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:11 PM

Of course. And according to nonpartisan 1 death is worth 10 rapes.

These idiots are losing the debate because people live in the real world. In the real world the most effective tool for preventing crime is a well armed populace. In the real world the police can not be counted to protect you when it really counts. In the real world criminals never obey the laws that disarm the law abiding.

NotCoach on June 11, 2014 at 11:15 PM

Map it.

Bmore on June 11, 2014 at 11:13 PM

Hmmmmm – What could that possibly be telling us? It’s right on the tip of my tongue…..

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:17 PM

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:14 PM

Idiots gonna be idiots. The realty is that in only 0.9% of self defense cases involving firearms is the weapon ever fired. Just its presence is enough to deter a violent criminal 99.1% of the time.

NotCoach on June 11, 2014 at 11:17 PM

Why are solo midnight suicides or evening gang murders that happen to take place on education property deserving of more attention than if they took place anywhere else?

Because if they took place elsewhere, they couldn’t be used to promote The Narrative©.

F X Muldoon on June 11, 2014 at 11:21 PM

Idiots gonna be idiots. The realty is that in only 0.9% of self defense cases involving firearms is the weapon ever fired. Just its presence is enough to deter a violent criminal 99.1% of the time.

NotCoach on June 11, 2014 at 11:17 PM

Of course – because for the most part, criminals are cowards.
The libtards naturally don’t get it, or willifully ignore it – and couldn’t answer it earlier in the thread – but of course that’s why criminals so often choose gun free zones for their crimes.

dentarthurdent on June 11, 2014 at 11:22 PM

Mentira

mentira lo que dice
mentira lo que da
mentira lo que hace
mentira lo que va
(la mentira….)

mentira la mentira
mentira la verdad
mentira lo que cuece
bajo la oscuridad

(mentira, mentira, la mentira…)

Lie, what he says
Lie, what he gives
Lie, what he do
Lie, what it goes
(the lie…)

Lie is the lie
Lie the truth
Lie what he cook
at the darkness

(lie, lie, the lie….)

Kenosha Kid on June 11, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Wow, something new every day…

The Schaef on June 11, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Cheez…Genius…pure Genius. It’s so rare today.

FlaVet on June 11, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Anterless only Modern Gun opens October 8th.

I can’t wait to express my 2nd amendment right once again.

Dino V on June 11, 2014 at 11:29 PM

I’m late to the party as usual. I own a .22 magnum rifle, a .22 pistol, a .50 Desert Eagle, and 2 S&W 500 Magnums. None of them have killed or injured anyone, whether by accident or by design. My daughter owns another 4 guns, at least two of them loaded and unlocked in her home at all times. None of them have injured or killed anyone, whether by accident or by design.

But we both have the training to do so. My training came at Paradise Island and hers came at Fort Lost in the Woods.

John Hitchcock on June 12, 2014 at 12:45 AM

Lets see, take all the guns away and no gun deaths.

gwelf on June 11, 2014 at 9:06 PM

hrrrm, that does seem to follow actually. Interesting.

Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:09 PM

Do you mean like in Norway and Germany?

Brilliant!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8657475/Norway-killings-The-laughing-gunman-who-shot-85-young-victims-one-by-one.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/world/europe/12germany.html?_r=0

jaydee_007 on June 12, 2014 at 2:29 AM

Bloomberg’s group’s agenda has mysteriously ignored those many black bodies piling up in Chicago methinks.

Don L on June 12, 2014 at 5:09 AM

Say, I’ll wager far more die in a few hours in the lefts abortion temples.

Don L on June 12, 2014 at 6:14 AM

.

rogerb on June 12, 2014 at 6:36 AM

But when roger is talking about death camps for HIV patients I require it to be a damn good solution for a huge problem before it’s even worth considering…
 
Tlaloc on June 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM

 
Death camps?
 
That’s pathetic, even for you. I rarely find here much personally offensive, but a willingness to lie so brazenly about something like that and at that level simply to distract from your own inability to maintain what is supposedly a moral position regarding deaths and injury really tells a lot about the value of your input on the topic.

rogerb on June 12, 2014 at 6:36 AM

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