NRA pro-tip: In-your-face open carry is probably a bad idea, folks

posted at 12:41 pm on June 2, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

We haven’t written much about the open-carry protests in Texas, in which pro-gun activists carried rifles into retail establishments in order to make a point about gun rights in one of the most pro-gun states in the union. The effort ended up backfiring, as two retailers — Jack In The Box and Chipotle’s — ended up having to make explicit rules banning firearms from their establishments. Last Friday, the NRA appealed to common sense in asking activists to ool-it-kay with the arry-kay and quit frightening people who might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause:

The second example comes to us from the Lone Star State, which is second to none for its robust gun culture.  We applaud Texans for that, but a small number have recently crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness.

Now we love AR-15s and AKs as much as anybody, and we know that these sorts of semiautomatic carbines are among the most popular, fastest selling firearms in America today.  Texas, independent-minded and liberty-loving place that it is, doesn’t ban the carrying of loaded long guns in public, nor does it require a permit for this activity.  Yet some so-called firearm advocates seem determined to change this.

Recently, demonstrators have been showing up in various public places, including coffee shops and fast food restaurants, openly toting a variety of tactical long guns. Unlicensed open carry of handguns is legal in about half the U.S. states, and it is relatively common and uncontroversial in some places.

Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.

Let’s not mince words, not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary.  It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

As a result of these hijinx, two popular fast food outlets have recently requested patrons to keep guns off the premises (more information can be found here and here).  In other words, the freedom and goodwill these businesses had previously extended to gun owners has been curtailed because of the actions of an attention-hungry few who thought only of themselves and not of those who might be affected by their behavior. To state the obvious, that’s counterproductive for the gun owning community.

More to the point, it’s just not neighborly, which is out of character for the big-hearted residents of Texas. Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners.  That’s not the Texas way.  And that’s certainly not the NRA way.

The activist group involved in these protests, Open Carry Texas, isn’t exactly convinced by the argument:

It’s a little unclear exactly what point OCT had in staging these demonstrations at retailers who either supported or at least tolerated firearms on their premises. The protests made them a target for anti-gun activists, and raised their profile to the point where they had little choice but to respond. Whatever one thinks of carry issues, few dispute that private-property owners have at least some legitimate rights in setting conditions for service and access. and these protests made it significantly more difficult for common-sense gun owners to do so in these establishments for no real clear purpose … other than gaining attention.

John Ekdahl warned about this last September at AoSHQ, when a similar demonstration convinced Starbucks to change its policy on access:

Gun rights activists started “Starbucks Appreciation Day“, which encouraged people to open carry in stores where the law allowed. Frankly, I think this is where it started to go off the rails. Gun rights is an issue we’re winning pretty comfortably. The left seeks to paint gun rights supporters as “gun nuts” and nothing helps their case more than pulling stunts like this.

Now tell me, what was the point of that? Any CCW class, or NRA gun safety program you take will relentlessly preach the importance of responsibility. There are few things more irresponsible as a gun owner than bringing a rifle to a business with the express purpose of creating an argument or altercation, all for the glory of your YouTube channel.

Apparently, Starbucks didn’t want to continue to have their stores be ground zero for a political debate. You know what? They are completely within their rights to make this call as a private business. …

Notice, this is not a ban. It’s a polite request they are asking customers to honor (It’s a little unclear as to whether this applies to just open carry or concealed as well). Some are claiming he just buckled to liberal pressure and he’s lying through his teeth. I’m willing to take him at his word, because I assume the company just wanted to sell coffee without the endless headaches that go along with people making a spectacle of the previous policy.

Like John, I fully support must-issue carry laws, including open carry as a means to defend one’s self. As readers know, I have a carry permit myself.  It’s important to defend those legal rights, but it’s even more important to do so intelligently, in a way that extends sympathy to the cause rather than fear of law-abiding gun owners and their motives. The NRA has offered good advice in this case, and hopefully activists will give it due consideration before they convince even more public businesses to ban firearms altogether in their locations.


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WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:41 PM

Truth be known, they kinda lost me some years back, when they suggested AR’s made excellent hunting rifles. No need to bend truth. Truth is truth. There is nothing wrong with being honest.

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM

I’ve never hunted in my life. (I’d like to try some day though.)

But, yeah, I understand what you’re saying. Why make excuses?

This is all about the needle, and where it’s moving. Every time the NRA gives them an inch they take a mile. And the NRA has given them too many inches. The whole topic is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:54 PM

Thanks for your honesty. So, you even get nervous when you see police open carry. Then of course people like you will be nervous to see open carriers.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Maybe that’s where I get my distrust from also. Used to be in law enforcement, and know for a FACT a good number of officers in every department can’t hit the broad side of a barn with their side arm.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:54 PM

I am the biggest 2nd Amendment supporter that I know, but the people ‘protesting’ at restaurants are missing the point.

This is a private property issue, not a 2nd A one.

A restaurant owner, just like you with your own home, has the right to decide whether to allow guns on his property.

While I think that they are making a mistake in turning their property into a gun-free zone, they have that right…and, potential patrons have the right to dine elsewhere.

To argue otherwise is to make the same demand on private property owners and businesses that the Pink Mafia has on bakeries, florists, and photographers.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 1:53 PM

OCT does not make demands on private property owners. They make requests, and make the results of those requests publicly known one way or the other. I would think you would appreciate that of all people, living in Texas as you do.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:55 PM

Did you expect anything more out of CoolRepublica?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:51 PM

Not really. What bothers me is how many folks on the right buy into the leftist argumenst on this issue.

Gun were not demonized in the past in the US and they are openly carried by many in Israel and the world didn’t end.

The lack of trust in gunowners is a leftist victory.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:55 PM

20 kids a day are shot and injured accidentally in this country. Let me know if at any point you actually give a damn.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM

Was Trayvon Martin one of them?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Yup.
And here a couple more:
http://bearingarms.com/elderly-california-duo-ends-lives-two-home-invaders/

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Oh wait… don’t you guys also open carry? Aren’t police opening a huge can of worms that should not be opened? Aren’t they creating an atmosphere of fear?

dominigan on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

An excellent point.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Seriously

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 1:56 PM

The lack of trust in gunowners is a leftist victory.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:55 PM

Bingo. This right here cuts clear to the heart of the matter.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Also worth noting, though more of an aside:

Some of the ire directed at OCT is directed personally at CJ Grisham by ex-milbloggers who think he is a terrible person and a nutcase ready to crack. These were mostly the same people who took Michael Yon’s side in the Yon v. Grisham dustup of a few years ago. Not every conservative railing against Grisham and OCT is an impartial observer.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

As an NRA member and supporter it is absollutely stupid to carry AK and AR15′s into stores. Leave them in your car or truck. Don’t destroy our freedom through stupidity, we are better than that.

leader4hru on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Huh? So now we’re supposed to grovel at the thrones of the arbiters of our freedom?

We set the rules, not our overlords.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

Seriously

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Why should police be considered more trustworthy than my neighbors?

Do you recall their antics during the Christopher Dorner case?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

Long gun carry, activist IYFC at friendly businesses, etc. has been debated for years in the open carry movement. I know as I have been part of many of those discussions on various levels.

For people not familiar with the OC community, yes, even among us there is great dissent as to long gun OC and mass OC meetups at public places.

Supposedly the whole point of all this is to “normalize” open carry. IMO, to normalize open carry, you should, you know, carry normally. But then you can’t OC handguns in TX so then it becomes a matter of degree.

Many of the points being debated here though have been debated for years, across many forums and many threads, by OC supporters alone. Even the “police chief” comments earlier are old hat, much debated and argued for years and years. This thread on HotAir is no way going to resolve something that hasn’t even been resolved among the specific OC community.

deepdiver on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Look, I’d live to see the needle move in our society as a whole to be much more comfortable and familiar with the sight of firearms carried openly.

But even in places where gun racks were and maybe are still common, you didn’t carry the things into church and the post office. They are far too cumbersome to be practical as a daily carry item.

I’m going to be mad as hell at OCT if they screw up our chances at getting actual open carry passed for handguns in this fine state. Yes, you have the right to open carry long guns. I have carried my AR on the side of the highway moving from one lease to another, and I wouldn’t want to be spread eagle on the hood of some cop car for doing that. So there is a real benefit to some of what they are doing. But dammit, they have to stop parading onto private property and then celebrate themselves for exercising their rights on behalf, supposedly, of the rest of us. Just frigging knock it off, OCT.

TexasDan on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Why should police be considered more trustworthy than my neighbors?

Do you recall their antics during the Christopher Dorner case?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

A SWAT squad nearly blew a 19 month old kid’s face off over mistaken information mere days ago. This does not engender trust in the police, or in their ability to use flashbangs that are supposed to be non-lethal.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Yup.
And here a couple more:
http://bearingarms.com/elderly-california-duo-ends-lives-two-home-invaders/

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 1:56 PM

I can now tell Tialoc that I truly do NOT give a damn.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:02 PM

This thread on HotAir is no way going to resolve something that hasn’t even been resolved among the specific OC community.

deepdiver on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Maybe not, but it will reveal the cowardice of some to an audience that hasn’t been familiar with it before now.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:02 PM

Ed, I am now convinced that you are gay. It isn’t a “cause.” It’s a basic human right.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:33 PM

The right to keep and bear arms is a Natural Right and part of the positive liberty of warfare which is defense of self and defense of one’s family and society.

It is also a synthetic right to protect those items that represent one’s life, which is demonstrated by the artifacts we make and own. Those that would take your property are taking part of your life and you are allowed to defend that, as well.

The right to life is a continuous process and starts at conception and then is fraught with danger thereafter. The right to keep and bear arms is a Natural Right to all living things.

To keep and bear arms is the perfect right to have arms that are useful with you at all times and is a liberty granted to you NOT by civil society but by Nature. We ask that civil society RESPECT the right to keep and bear arms as part of our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness all of which have, as their backing, the right to the positive liberty of warfare and of defense of one’s property.

ajacksonian on June 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM

deepdiver on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Mike?

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 1:53 PM

OCT does not make demands on private property owners. They make requests, and make the results of those requests publicly known one way or the other. I would think you would appreciate that of all people, living in Texas as you do.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:55 PM

They have the right to make such requests and property owners have the right to say no.

I don’t live in Texas, but would have no problem with allowing people to openly carry in my restaurant. In fact, I think that such is morally, if not legally, desirable. If a business can be sued for not protecting against foreseeable injuries or deaths, which they are all of the time, then I can make the same argument as to why not turning my business into a gun-free zone is the correct thing to do considering the fact that almost all mass murders, including that which occurred at Luby’s, happened in GFZs.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Given how incredibly common it is for some idiot to accidentally shoot someone else because they can’t responsibly handle a gun you better believe some people are frightened by this. Seriously at least once a week we hear about an accidental discharge that injures someone else. It takes a particularly virulent form of stupidity to think that everyone else is willing to die for your gun fetish.
 
Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

 
From your link:
 

A guest on the HuffPost Live discussion noted in the post below mentioned that guns injure 5,000 people per year (presumably in the U.S.). Actually, according to CDC’s WISQARS, there are about 14,000-19,000 nonfatal injuries stemming from accidental shootings per year in the U.S., though only about 600 people killed in such shootings. As always, keep in mind the limitations of this data, including that some suicides and suicide attempts could be misclassified as accidents.

 
So that’s 7769 fewer deaths each year than those from AIDS, and at least 30,273 fewer annual injuries than those from new HIV infections.
 
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/aids-hiv.htm
 
And all from the 37% of the U.S. population with guns (vs the less than 1/2 of 1% with HIV).
 
It really is incredible to realize that gun owners are that safe. Thanks for the perspective.

rogerb on June 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM

TexasDan on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Amen, Brother. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

DDay on June 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

I don’t understand the fear of firearms that some people have.

It seems they are fine with authority figures carrying weapons, but terrified if ordinary people are.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:06 PM

As an NRA member and supporter it is absollutely stupid to carry AK and AR15′s into stores. Leave them in your car or truck. Don’t destroy our freedom through stupidity, we are better than that.

leader4hru on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Huh? So now we’re supposed to grovel at the thrones of the arbiters of our freedom?

We set the rules, not our overlords.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

And, what Second Amendment ‘freedom’ do you imagine that you have on someone else’s private property?

The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the right to bear arms, not private business owners.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Why should police be considered more trustworthy than my neighbors?

Do you recall their antics during the Christopher Dorner case?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

so your pro open carry and anti police, Do you live in a compound somewhere with like minded people and you train every day?

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Late to the thread – oh, well. I’m a 5th Gen Texan from the home of the Alamo and a robust defender of the 2nd Amendment. I was raised on Texian Exceptionalism and am a firm believer in going armed – concealed. There are now too many effete Yankee carpetbaggers in Texas who are ‘offended’ that anyone would carry a gun. Austin, a great town of yore, is now a bastion of …oh, never mind. Real Texians – keep yer cool.

vnvet on June 2, 2014 at 2:08 PM

TexasDan on June 2, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Amen, Brother. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

DDay on June 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM

Too bad they don’t see it that way. It would be nice to not have to wear a covering shirt on hot days.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:08 PM

They have the right to make such requests and property owners have the right to say no.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM

I’m not debating that point. I am arguing that people’s personal comfort should not be a point from which we determine public policy. Decisions made by private entities =/= public policy. Hell, if Chipotle did ban guns in its stores, they STILL wouldn’t be harming the 2nd amendment. Because only government can violate it!

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

if someone walked into a restaurant openly carrying an AR-15, I would be frightened.

Shump on June 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM

It depends entirely on HOW they are carrying. I have no problem with a handgun in a holster or a long gun slung over the back.
But if someone walks into a crowded restaurant with a gun (of any kind) at low ready, or any other “ready” position, I’m at least putting a hand on, or getting out my CCW. At a minimum, what that guy is doing demonstrates very poor gun safety, on the other end of the scale, he looks like he’s ready to shoot up or rob the place.

I was at the ground breaking ceremony back in April for our new indoor shooting range, and my guess is at least half the people there were carrying – some open some concealed – all in holsters – not in hand. I had no concerns about any of them.

OTOH – I’d be getting ready to shoot back if I saw these yahoos walk into a restaurant I was at:
http://bearingarms.com/open-carry-groups-come-long-gun-carry-businesses/

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

Then you must hate seeing police in the same room as you.

You must also be paranoid knowing that there are so many concealed carriers in the same room as you. I’m surprised you don’t demand an end to all concealed carry.

Given this level of paranoia and the fact that you admit that you would keep your finger on a trigger makes me think that you really shouldn’t be carrying at all.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:57 PM

I don’t see it as paranoid to have respect for a gun and what it could do. Nor do I see it as paranoid to know that not every gun owner is responsible and well-trained. And frankly, I don’t care whether you think I should carry or not.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

so your pro open carry and anti police, Do you live in a compound somewhere with like minded people and you train every day?

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Given the police’s increasing incidence of killing children, pets, and innocent unarmed individuals, I’d say being mistrustful of police is a pretty damn good survival mechanism.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:10 PM

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

+1000

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:10 PM

Real Texians – keep yer cool.

vnvet on June 2, 2014 at 2:08 PM

always

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:11 PM

Do you say the same thing about 1st Amendment activists?
blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:07 PM

Most people love Amendment I. Most people despise the immature brat exercising his first Amendment right by loudly belting out cuss words in public just to demonstrate his Amendment I guarantee.

This is the same display of maturity exactly.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:11 PM

cars actually serve a purpose beyond your mast*rbation aide.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

…says someone who has never been in a turbo-charged, high performance sports car. LOLOL

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:12 PM

As opposed to leaving your gun unattended when you don’t see others with guns? It really seems as if you aren’t a safe gun owner.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 2:08 PM

In case you missed it, I don’t open carry. I have a CCP (or CCW). And yes, the difference between having my hand in my purse or not having my hand in my purse is what I am talking about. You generally twist what people are saying to fit your own purposes.. You shouldn’t do that.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:13 PM

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

The guys at the demonstrations with tactical slings crack me up.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Most people love Amendment I. Most people despise the immature brat exercising his first Amendment right by loudly belting out cuss words in public just to demonstrate his Amendment I guarantee.

This is the same display of maturity exactly.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:11 PM

And yet we don’t complain about how obscenity or KKK conbfabs harm the 1st amendment. We just accept it as a price of first amendment protections.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Given the police’s increasing incidence of killing children, pets, and innocent unarmed individuals, I’d say being mistrustful of police is a pretty damn good survival mechanism.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:10 PM

Now, see- we agree with something on this thread.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

In case you missed it, I don’t open carry. I have a CCP (or CCW). And yes, the difference between having my hand in my purse or not having my hand in my purse is what I am talking about. You generally twist what people are saying to fit your own purposes.. You shouldn’t do that.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Then maybe you should quit saying stupid emotionally charged stuff in the service of trying to make a serious point.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Now, see- we agree with something on this thread.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Then maybe you should quit saying stupid emotionally charged stuff in the service of trying to make a serious point.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

I guess not for long.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Why should police be considered more trustworthy than my neighbors?

Do you recall their antics during the Christopher Dorner case?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

so your pro open carry and anti police, Do you live in a compound somewhere with like minded people and you train every day?

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:07 PM

The poor training on the part of police is the point.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lapd-cops-shot-women-violated-policy-article-1.1602272

Eight cops unloaded a hail of more than 100 bullets on a truck resembling that of fired LAPD officer Christopher Dorner…

They never even bothered to identify their targets.

That you think someone not supporting shooting at innocent bystanders means they are some sort of radical militia group or domestic terrorist says a lot about your odd mentality.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Tulsa Chipotle Kicks out Anti-Gunners “Moms Demand Action” for Rude Behavior
Sometimes when shady plans backfire, they backfire really well. This was definitely the case on Saturday May 31st in Tulsa Oklahoma, as The Oklahoma Open Carry Association met Moms Demand Action for the first time.
What happened next is the true sound of sweet justice.

To be honest, we were expecting this, and we figured that we would be asked to leave; but what happened next was nothing less than awesome. The manager refused to kick out OKOCA and even gave them free drinks. MDA activists then proceeded to take pictures of the gun owners and attempted to portray them as intimidating and threatening. The management wasn’t having any of it; he threw Moms Demand Action out of his store!
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/tulsa-chipotle-kicks-anti-gunners-moms-demand-action-rude-behavior/

DinaRehn on June 2, 2014 at 2:16 PM

DinaRehn on June 2, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Oh silly Dina. Don’t you know that OC activists harm the cause? LOL

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Then maybe you should quit saying stupid emotionally charged stuff in the service of trying to make a serious point.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

I already admitted that the “finger on the trigger” was hyperbole on my part. It wasn’t emotionally charged to say that if I see someone open carrying, especially irresponsibly like some of these demonstrations have been doing; that my gun is going to be closer than normal (i.e. my hand will be in my purse.)

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:17 PM

I already admitted that the “finger on the trigger” was hyperbole on my part. It wasn’t emotionally charged to say that if I see someone open carrying, especially irresponsibly like some of these demonstrations have been doing; that my gun is going to be closer than normal (i.e. my hand will be in my purse.)

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Not everything emotionally charged and/or stupid is hyperbole.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:18 PM

blink on June 2, 2014 at 2:16 PM

Chopping the quote, bless your heart.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:18 PM

I would hope that you do lean in favor of a group protesting for 2nd amendment rights. It seems to me to be one of those “you can not serve two masters” scenarios.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

I think all gun laws are a joke and wouldn’t hesitate to break any one of them if it was a matter of life or death. I would say that most Americans only obey laws to get along in the remarkably polite society we have created for ourselves in this great country. I serve no master that I do not choose to.

The “Gay Rights Model” or the “Enviro-nazi” model of boycott intimidation and in-your-face activism just does not appeal to me, even if I can see and appreciate it’s effectiveness. To me, that is the whole argument boiled down to it’s essence. I’m not that kind of person. I do not get all hyped up about the speed limit either.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 2:19 PM

I already admitted that the “finger on the trigger” was hyperbole on my part.
melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:17 PM

The open carry demonstrators would never do something like that.

dentarthurdent provided the link. It still cracks me up.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Given the police’s increasing incidence of killing children, pets, and innocent unarmed individuals, I’d say being mistrustful of police is a pretty damn good survival mechanism.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:10 PM

330 million people in this country hundreds of thousands of cops. some screw up and we are all bad. where human. We must know the law, make split second decisions that affect life. put our own lives on the line to protect others. so yeah makes sense mistrust us. No problem I’ll continue to do my job to the best of my ability. I don’t think your mistrust will affect me in any way.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

As an NRA member and supporter it is absollutely stupid to carry AK and AR15′s into stores. Leave them in your car or truck. Don’t destroy our freedom through stupidity, we are better than that.

leader4hru on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Huh? So now we’re supposed to grovel at the thrones of the arbiters of our freedom?

We set the rules, not our overlords.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:59 PM

And, what Second Amendment ‘freedom’ do you imagine that you have on someone else’s private property?

The Second Amendment applies to the government infringing on the right to bear arms, not private business owners.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 2:06 PM

I completely agree. Business owners have the right to tell gun carriers to get out. But the point of these protests is to get wimpy libtards used to the idea of having guns around.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

The “Gay Rights Model” or the “Enviro-nazi” model of boycott intimidation and in-your-face activism just does not appeal to me, even if I can see and appreciate it’s effectiveness. To me, that is the whole argument boiled down to it’s essence. I’m not that kind of person. I do not get all hyped up about the speed limit either.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 2:19 PM

Not all open carry organizations are like that, though some absolutely are. In the end, I am only interested in one question: Does a group have as its stated intent the infringement of my rights? If the answer to that is “no,” then any debate or on that point to follow is pointless philosophe politiquing.

I have even had people tell me, “But Gryph! It’s not about whether your rights are infringed or not!” Really?! Well then, I guess I don’t have anything to worry about, folks!

/DERP!

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

The open carry demonstrators would never do something like that.

dentarthurdent provided the link. It still cracks me up.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

/facepalm

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:22 PM

330 million people in this country hundreds of thousands of cops. some screw up and we are all bad. where human. We must know the law, make split second decisions that affect life. put our own lives on the line to protect others. so yeah makes sense mistrust us. No problem I’ll continue to do my job to the best of my ability. I don’t think your mistrust will affect me in any way.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Given that you are not a police officer in my home town (most likely, anyhow), you’re right. But anyone with half a brain cell will know that when the shit really hits the fan, uniformed police officers in the employ of municipal governments are the LAST people one should go to for help anywhere. Courts have ruled as much as it’s not your job to “serve and protect,” vehicle decals to the contrary. It is your job to “arrest and detain.” And a cop had better have a good reason for doing either to me.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Has anyone followed to money of groups like Open Carry Texas? If I was a dishonest Left-wing activist in Texas, I would create a group with this name, and then send members into family-friendly restaurants and coffee shops carry open firearms, deliberately to turn families against open-carry laws.

I’m not saying that the explanation isn’t just “Open Carry Texas is a stupid group.” Certainly, that’s the simplest explanation. And if there is no money trail between OCT and anyone with an interest in restricting the ability to possess and carry firearms, then it’s probably the right explanation.

So, has anyone seen any news story following the money?

DrUrchin on June 2, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Ya’ know, the whole thing looks to be moot.

I appears Open Carry Texas agrees with Ed.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM

Carry an old Prussian musket into a store and half the people in there would faint dead away.

The problem is defining an “intelligent” way to carry a gun, opinions will differ.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM

I lived in Jerusalem for a year about three years ago, and it was so refreshing to see people casually sitting next to me in a restaurant on a nice sunny day with ARs slung over their shoulders.

Guess what? No one freaked out.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Has anyone followed to money of groups like Open Carry Texas? If I was a dishonest Left-wing activist in Texas, I would create a group with this name, and then send members into family-friendly restaurants and coffee shops carry open firearms, deliberately to turn families against open-carry laws.

I’m not saying that the explanation isn’t just “Open Carry Texas is a stupid group.” Certainly, that’s the simplest explanation. And if there is no money trail between OCT and anyone with an interest in restricting the ability to possess and carry firearms, then it’s probably the right explanation.

So, has anyone seen any news story following the money?

DrUrchin on June 2, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Any group sufficiently large will have a few stupid members. But one thing I can say with a fair degree of certainty is that CJ Grisham has been absolutely scrupulous in keeping any and all money/paper trails absolutely lily-clean. Given the nature of the local groups involved and the work they do, I don’t really think there is much of a money trail to begin with, but if the state-level organization was anything except absolutely above-reproach, you know MDA would have been all over it a long time ago.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Carry an old Prussian musket into a store and half the people in there would faint dead away.

The problem is defining an “intelligent” way to carry a gun, opinions will differ.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM

I kinda like this guy:
http://bearingarms.com/open-carry-kansas-kicks-notch/

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:27 PM

And I’m talking about people in street cloths, not military uniforms.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 2:27 PM

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Sometimes I hate it when this is appropriate.

alchemist19 on June 2, 2014 at 2:27 PM

And yet we don’t complain about how obscenity or KKK conbfabs harm the 1st amendment. We just accept it as a price of first amendment protections.
gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:14 PM

True. It is perfectly legal and recognized so when one wants to display a right in a manner of a childish goof. They should be prepared when their cause gets confused as childish and goofy though. There are actually more dignified, thoughtful, and adult-like means of exercising freedoms than what these obvious ‘thought rookies’ demonstrated.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:27 PM

True. It is perfectly legal and recognized so when one wants to display a right in a manner of a childish goof. They should be prepared when their cause gets confused as childish and goofy though. There are actually more dignified, thoughtful, and adult-like means of exercising freedoms than what these obvious ‘thought rookies’ demonstrated.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:27 PM

So tell me again how this threatens my 2nd amendment rights or something.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:28 PM

To argue otherwise is to make the same demand on private property owners and businesses that the Pink Mafia has on bakeries, florists, and photographers.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 1:53 PM

Who is making that argument?

blink on June 2, 2014 at 2:28 PM

No one. I think RWM has a straw man fetish.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Given that you are not a police officer in my home town (most likely, anyhow), you’re right. But anyone with half a brain cell will know that when the shit really hits the fan, uniformed police officers in the employ of municipal governments are the LAST people one should go to for help anywhere. Courts have ruled as much as it’s not your job to “serve and protect,” vehicle decals to the contrary. It is your job to “arrest and detain.” And a cop had better have a good reason for doing either to me.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Wrong, my job is not to arrest and detain but rather to keep the peace. Sometimes yes I have to arrest for the purpose of keeping the peace. If the cops arrest somebody for stealing your guns at the compound I’m sure you would be okay with it.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:30 PM

I lived in Jerusalem for a year about three years ago, and it was so refreshing to see people casually sitting next to me in a restaurant on a nice sunny day with ARs slung over their shoulders.

Guess what? No one freaked out.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 2:26 PM

I would have. Guns are scary.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:30 PM

I would have. Guns are scary.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Is that the real reason you threw all of yours into the lake?
;)

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:32 PM

Wrong, my job is not to arrest and detain but rather to keep the peace. Sometimes yes I have to arrest for the purpose of keeping the peace. If the cops arrest somebody for stealing your guns at the compound I’m sure you would be okay with it.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Well, police officers are doing a fine job of that in Chicago and detroit, aren’t they?/

Your job most certainly IS to arrest and detain. That is the only way that police officers can keep the peace! Just like the only two things doctors can do that I can’t are prescribe drugs and perform surgery. Oh well.

I don’t think that arrests and detainments make policing a dishonorable profession. I think the attitude that most police officers have towards their ability to arrest and detain makes policing a dishonorable profession, in much the same sense that I find lawyering and politics to be dishonorable professions for much the same reasons.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

If the cops arrest somebody for stealing your guns at the compound I’m sure you would be okay with it.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:30 PM

He has already stated several times he doesn’t own any firearms.

Is that you Barney Fife?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

There are actually more dignified, thoughtful, and adult-like means of exercising freedoms than what these obvious ‘thought rookies’ demonstrated.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Is there a manual I can buy, or maybe a PDF online which describes which methods are acceptable and which are not? I’d hate to make someone retire to their fainting couch by accidentally doing something undignified with a firearm.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

As an NRA member and supporter it is absollutely stupid to carry AK and AR15′s into stores. Leave them in your car or truck. Don’t destroy our freedom through stupidity, we are better than that.

leader4hru

Irony…it’s what’s for dinner, lol.

So now what?Everyone sits around with their guns next to them as they eat because we don’t know if the guy next to us eating with his gun is sane or just a crazy with a gun.

stoolrepublica

Well, we could make it illegal. Crazy people are known for obeying laws. Just ask the Rodgers kid.

xblade on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Is there a manual I can buy, or maybe a PDF online which describes which methods are acceptable and which are not? I’d hate to make someone retire to their fainting couch by accidentally doing something undignified with a firearm.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Bish, can I give you a man-hug? I think this post rates a hale and hearty man-hug. LOL

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:34 PM

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:32 PM

Doh! You beat me to it.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 2:34 PM

He has already stated several times he doesn’t own any firearms.

Is that you Barney Fife?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

I was wondering how long it would take before someone took this to the 3rd grade level.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:35 PM

So tell me again how this threatens my 2nd amendment rights or something.
gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:28 PM

I can’t. That’s never been my argument. I’ve clearly stated on two separate posts now that they have a right to act in such a childish goofy manner. I just can’t understand why anyone would want to defend childish and goofy tactics (their right to do so is irrelevant IMO).

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:36 PM

http://bearingarms.com/legal-to-buy-a-tank/

OK – I’m in for one of these!!!!
Probably not concealed carry though…..

How might they react if I open carried one of these into my local restaurant?/

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:36 PM

It really is incredible to realize that gun owners are that safe. Thanks for the perspective.

rogerb on June 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM

…thank YOU…for that perspective!

KOOLAID2 on June 2, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Is that the real reason you threw all of yours into the lake?
;)

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:32 PM

You are a thought-rookie. I don’t even know what that is but it sounds bad so that is what you are.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:36 PM

I can’t. That’s never been my argument. I’ve clearly stated on two separate posts now that they have a right to act in such a childish goofy manner. I just can’t understand why anyone would want to defend childish and goofy tactics (their right to do so is irrelevant IMO).

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:36 PM

The line is fine and blurry, but I am less interested in defending childish and goofy tactics than I am in mocking those who have argued, quite literally, that such tactics DO threaten my 2nd amendment rights when they don’t, can’t, and never will.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:37 PM

Is there a manual I can buy, or maybe a PDF online which describes which methods are acceptable and which are not? I’d hate to make someone retire to their fainting couch by accidentally doing something undignified with a firearm.
Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:33 PM

Ha! Admittedly, I’m not aware of any. LOL. I am strictly relying on common sense.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM

I was wondering how long it would take before someone took this to the 3rd grade level.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 2:35 PM

And calling anyone who disagrees with you a militia member living in a compound is elevated discourse?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM

Ha! Admittedly, I’m not aware of any. LOL. I am strictly relying on common sense.

anuts on June 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM

Now all we need to do is define “common sense”.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:40 PM

And calling anyone who disagrees with you a militia member living in a compound is elevated discourse?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM

He’s a cop, Sharr. He can say whatever he wants to./

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:40 PM

You said that you wanted to be control over every gun in a room. That sounds a bit paranoid to me.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM

As I said, I tend to be a control freak. I don’t like to drive with anyone either.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 2:41 PM

Mike?

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Nope.

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

I agree with you up to the point about long gun OC across the chest or low ready is disconcerting even to “gun guys” and cause for a long look and threat analysis. I very much hope the rest of the post was hyperbole.

So now what?Everyone sits around with their guns next to them as they eat because we don’t know if the guy next to us eating with his gun is sane or just a crazy with a gun.

stoolrepublica

I don’t know. I almost always sit around with my gun on my hip eating or not so it really doesn’t matter if someone else has a gun OC or not.

deepdiver on June 2, 2014 at 2:41 PM

Now all we need to do is define “common sense”.

Bishop on June 2, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Perhaps we can judge a person’s level of common sense by asking them what “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” means.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 2:41 PM

Always remember not everyone thinks like yourself. When dealing with people like that you have to bring them, sometimes slowly, to your side. If you are too aggressive you can drive them away. This is especially the case with women.

William Eaton on June 2, 2014 at 2:41 PM

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