NRA pro-tip: In-your-face open carry is probably a bad idea, folks

posted at 12:41 pm on June 2, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

We haven’t written much about the open-carry protests in Texas, in which pro-gun activists carried rifles into retail establishments in order to make a point about gun rights in one of the most pro-gun states in the union. The effort ended up backfiring, as two retailers — Jack In The Box and Chipotle’s — ended up having to make explicit rules banning firearms from their establishments. Last Friday, the NRA appealed to common sense in asking activists to ool-it-kay with the arry-kay and quit frightening people who might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause:

The second example comes to us from the Lone Star State, which is second to none for its robust gun culture.  We applaud Texans for that, but a small number have recently crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness.

Now we love AR-15s and AKs as much as anybody, and we know that these sorts of semiautomatic carbines are among the most popular, fastest selling firearms in America today.  Texas, independent-minded and liberty-loving place that it is, doesn’t ban the carrying of loaded long guns in public, nor does it require a permit for this activity.  Yet some so-called firearm advocates seem determined to change this.

Recently, demonstrators have been showing up in various public places, including coffee shops and fast food restaurants, openly toting a variety of tactical long guns. Unlicensed open carry of handguns is legal in about half the U.S. states, and it is relatively common and uncontroversial in some places.

Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.

Let’s not mince words, not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary.  It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

As a result of these hijinx, two popular fast food outlets have recently requested patrons to keep guns off the premises (more information can be found here and here).  In other words, the freedom and goodwill these businesses had previously extended to gun owners has been curtailed because of the actions of an attention-hungry few who thought only of themselves and not of those who might be affected by their behavior. To state the obvious, that’s counterproductive for the gun owning community.

More to the point, it’s just not neighborly, which is out of character for the big-hearted residents of Texas. Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners.  That’s not the Texas way.  And that’s certainly not the NRA way.

The activist group involved in these protests, Open Carry Texas, isn’t exactly convinced by the argument:

It’s a little unclear exactly what point OCT had in staging these demonstrations at retailers who either supported or at least tolerated firearms on their premises. The protests made them a target for anti-gun activists, and raised their profile to the point where they had little choice but to respond. Whatever one thinks of carry issues, few dispute that private-property owners have at least some legitimate rights in setting conditions for service and access. and these protests made it significantly more difficult for common-sense gun owners to do so in these establishments for no real clear purpose … other than gaining attention.

John Ekdahl warned about this last September at AoSHQ, when a similar demonstration convinced Starbucks to change its policy on access:

Gun rights activists started “Starbucks Appreciation Day“, which encouraged people to open carry in stores where the law allowed. Frankly, I think this is where it started to go off the rails. Gun rights is an issue we’re winning pretty comfortably. The left seeks to paint gun rights supporters as “gun nuts” and nothing helps their case more than pulling stunts like this.

Now tell me, what was the point of that? Any CCW class, or NRA gun safety program you take will relentlessly preach the importance of responsibility. There are few things more irresponsible as a gun owner than bringing a rifle to a business with the express purpose of creating an argument or altercation, all for the glory of your YouTube channel.

Apparently, Starbucks didn’t want to continue to have their stores be ground zero for a political debate. You know what? They are completely within their rights to make this call as a private business. …

Notice, this is not a ban. It’s a polite request they are asking customers to honor (It’s a little unclear as to whether this applies to just open carry or concealed as well). Some are claiming he just buckled to liberal pressure and he’s lying through his teeth. I’m willing to take him at his word, because I assume the company just wanted to sell coffee without the endless headaches that go along with people making a spectacle of the previous policy.

Like John, I fully support must-issue carry laws, including open carry as a means to defend one’s self. As readers know, I have a carry permit myself.  It’s important to defend those legal rights, but it’s even more important to do so intelligently, in a way that extends sympathy to the cause rather than fear of law-abiding gun owners and their motives. The NRA has offered good advice in this case, and hopefully activists will give it due consideration before they convince even more public businesses to ban firearms altogether in their locations.


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Should it make people feel uncomfortable? 238 years ago, every home in America-extant had a musket which was proudly displayed and used on a regular basis for purposes as pedestrian as target practice. And very few people outside the ranks of British soldiers had ill intent, simply because everyone knew how to shoot and how a shooting spree would end. Lo how far the mighty have fallen.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:19 PM

Here’s where you lost me: “And very few people outside the ranks of British soldiers had ill intent” Pfffttt…. I call BS. There were lots and lots with “ill intent” which is why people needed firearms. You are arguing against yourself.

rhombus on June 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

No, it probably shouldn’t, but the MDA are targeting people who may be pro-2nd amendment but not have an experience with guns. And they have been successful.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:21 PM

Because of chickenshits like yourself. I shouldn’t expect any more out of a woman, I guess.

/BOOM

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Nobody that would be otherwise sympathetic to the cause has been frightened.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 12:46 PM

I am sympathetic to the cause, and if someone walked into a restaurant openly carrying an AR-15, I would be frightened.

Shump on June 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

; )

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM

I fear and don’t trust the people carrying the weapons.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:19 PM

There are hundreds of millions of people with legal firearms and they aren’t the ones causing the majority of the problems. The vast majority are responsible and trustworthy.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM

when the cops show up everyone’s a target. That’s just one example of many. Keep the guns concealed.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Can I ask you about this? How will the police react differently if I was open carrying or concealed carrying prior to someone else shooting? Either way my gun is coming out to protect me and mine. Just seems like a stupid argument to put forward. Perhaps I am not thinking down the same road you are though. Can you please explain more? Thanks.

Caesar2075 on June 2, 2014 at 1:24 PM

Here’s where you lost me: “And very few people outside the ranks of British soldiers had ill intent” Pfffttt…. I call BS. There were lots and lots with “ill intent” which is why people needed firearms. You are arguing against yourself.

rhombus on June 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Thing is, that hasn’t changed. There will always be people with ill intent. Perhaps I should have qualified that by saying there were few people with ill intent outside the ranks of British soldiers who were actually stupid enough to start shooting civilians. And that much is true. What has changed most materially is that back then people weren’t afraid of firearms. Now we are.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:24 PM

An AR-15 out in the open makes people feel uncomfortable.

Oh please.
blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:17 PM

Blink, you are being willfully obtuse. Ask any soldier who has been on a multi-national post how he feels about armed soldiers from other nations, even though they are allies.

Open carry of long arms styled after battle weapons, by strangers, makes people nervous … and it should.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Blink, you are being willfully obtuse. Ask any soldier who has been on a multi-national post how he feels about armed soldiers from other nations, even though they are allies.

Open carry of long arms styled after battle weapons, by strangers, makes people nervous … and it should.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Again with the MDA talking points. How many of you people are MDA moles, anyway?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Because of chickenshits like yourself. I shouldn’t expect any more out of a woman, I guess.

/BOOM

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Wow! Speak for your damn self. I probably outshoot you on your best day with my worst day.

We aren’t talking about who is scared. We are talking about tactics, and I know you ain’t been keeping score, but the MDA’s are winning lately.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:22 PM

No weaseling. It is what it is. Those local ordinances are still on the books.

Look at the videos you tout.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Wow! Speak for your damn self. I probably outshoot you on your best day with my worst day.

We aren’t talking about who is scared. We are talking about tactics, and I know you ain’t been keeping score, but the MDA’s are winning lately.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

I don’t shoot. I don’t own a gun. My support of OCT in their efforts is strictly principled, which is more than I can say for the “pro 2nd amendment” chickenshits who think that guns should be like religion: Out of sight, out of mine.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Blink, you are being willfully obtuse. Ask any soldier who has been on a multi-national post how he feels about armed soldiers from other nations, even though they are allies.

Open carry of long arms styled after battle weapons, by strangers, makes people nervous … and it should.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Shhh, your are just suppose to trust gun owners, well because they are fellow gun owners.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

if restaurants are allowed to bar pets or loud music from their establishments why should they not also be able to bar openly carried guns?
ThisIsYourBrainOnKoch on June 2, 2014 at 1:18 PM

like your poodle or boom-box would really deter a crook…

Newtie and the Beauty on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Again with the MDA talking points. How many of you people are MDA moles, anyway?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

I don’t know what the “MDA” is, but I am a soldier.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

If people can’t be trusted to open carry then they can’t be trusted to concealed carry either.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

I don’t shoot. I don’t own a gun. My support of OCT in their efforts is strictly principled, which is more than I can say for the “pro 2nd amendment” chickenshits who think that guns should be like religion: Out of sight, out of mine.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Now, where in my posts did I say “no open carry?” What I said is that demonstrations are working against open carry, but continue on your tangent.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Ladies and gents, “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” It does not read, “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms that make other people feel comfortable shall not be infringed.” We make excuses on the basis of the 1st amendment for offensive speech all the time. For God’s sake, grow a pair!

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

No one is genuinely “frightened” by these open carry events. These events must continue, whenever and wherever possible. Keep up the good work, guys and gals!

Pork-Chop on June 2, 2014 at 12:55 PM

Given how incredibly common it is for some idiot to accidentally shoot someone else because they can’t responsibly handle a gun you better believe some people are frightened by this. Seriously at least once a week we hear about an accidental discharge that injures someone else. It takes a particularly virulent form of stupidity to think that everyone else is willing to die for your gun fetish.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

Again, you’re ignoring all the progress these groups have made in the last several years.

The only backlash is coming from groups that were already anti-gun prior to their efforts.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:20 PM

Well, they’re going to keep doing it anyway, whatever. I’m going to keep my advantage concealed and not paint a target on my back.

When a shooter takes the open-carry guy out first, I’ll be happy to put him down. Unfortunately that won’t help the open carry guy much though.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

What makes me laugh is that a simple disagreement about the effectiveness of a tactic is splitting the entire pro-2A movement. Thinking that it is stupid to carry a rifle over your shoulder at Chick-Fil-A to make a political point does not make one an enabler of tyranny.

It IS silly to get scared when you see someone carrying a slung rifle in Home Depot, but that is just because uncommon things are usually scary. The OCT guys are obviously trying to make it seem less scary by making it more common. The slightest bit of polite push-back is reacted to with screaming rage. Relax. You are winning.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Do you get nervous when you see police open carry their guns?

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Yes, because I’ve shared the range with many and a lot of them can’t shoot for sh**.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Shhh, your are just suppose to trust gun owners, well because they are fellow gun owners.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Maybe those untrustworthy gun-owners should be required to get a special license and training before they are allowed such a dangerous instrument as a firearm?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Now, where in my posts did I say “no open carry?” What I said is that demonstrations are working against open carry, but continue on your tangent.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Nor did I say that you were against open carry. What I said is that, knowingly or unknowingly, you and others who claim to be 2nd amendment are aiding and abetting MDA on the basis of yours and other people’s comfort levels cowardice. And I stand by that statement.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

What makes me laugh is that a simple disagreement about the effectiveness of a tactic is splitting the entire pro-2A movement. Thinking that it is stupid to carry a rifle over your shoulder at Chick-Fil-A to make a political point does not make one an enabler of tyranny.

It IS silly to get scared when you see someone carrying a slung rifle in Home Depot, but that is just because uncommon things are usually scary. The OCT guys are obviously trying to make it seem less scary by making it more common. The slightest bit of polite push-back is reacted to with screaming rage. Relax. You are winning.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

BINGO!

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:30 PM

Relax. You are winning.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Not everyone thinks we are, Mord. Some here would argue that personal comfort is a perfectly suitable basis for public policy. That is what I am lashing back against.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:30 PM

Yet you aren’t nervous about fellow soldiers that open carry. That’s the point.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

A fellow soldier and Joe Blow from down the street get very different levels of trust from me. Sorry, that’s how it is.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

The open carry guy did his job by distracting the active shooter long enough for the rest of us to draw and save all the unarmed people. I admire their sacrifice.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 1:31 PM

A fellow soldier and Joe Blow from down the street get very different levels of trust from me. Sorry, that’s how it is.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Nidal Hassan was unavailable for comment.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Sonic joined Jack in asking open carriers to leave their weapons at home.

Both had restaurants robbed almost immediately.

kurtzz3 on June 2, 2014 at 12:51 PM

It worked out the same way for the Pit in NC. You should never advertise your no gun policy because someone will rob you.

RickB on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Maybe those untrustworthy gun-owners should be required to get a special license and training before they are allowed such a dangerous instrument as a firearm?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Umm, no, but don’t get mad at people like me who doesn’t trust everyone who owns a gun. I don’t trust everyone who raises their children or owns a car. I am not advocating law against any of those people, but if I feel a little insecure, well chalk it up to me not trusting others, and control issues of my own. (If there is a gun in the same room as me, I’d like to be the one who controls it.)

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Given how incredibly common it is for some idiot to accidentally shoot someone else because they can’t responsibly handle a gun you better believe some people are frightened by this. Seriously at least once a week we hear about an accidental discharge that injures someone else. It takes a particularly virulent form of stupidity to think that everyone else is willing to die for your gun fetish.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM

Given how incredibly common it is for some idiot to accidentally drive over someone else because they can’t responsibly handle a car you better believe some people are frightened by this. Seriously at least once a day we hear about a vehicle accidental that injures someone else. It takes a particularly virulent form of stupidity to think that everyone else is willing to die for your car fetish.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

It worked out the same way for the Pit in NC. You should never advertise your no gun policy because someone will rob you.

RickB on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Advertising a no guns policy will sure make MDA happy, though. Seeing a pattern here yet?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

I’m sure people have already said this, but I’m too busy at the moment to read the whole thread:

The more of these protests the better. We need to get our gun-wimpy fellow citizens used to seeing pieces of metal.

I have a carry permit myself. It’s important to defend those legal rights, but it’s even more important to do so intelligently, in a way that extends sympathy to the cause rather than fear of law-abiding gun owners and their motives.

Ed, I am now convinced that you are gay. It isn’t a “cause.” It’s a basic human right.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:33 PM

From the other thread:

Point-in-fact: OCT asks permission from the management of the businesses they go to.
Point-in-fact: Much like the Tea Party, OCT groups are a rather loose affiliation of local groups.
Point-in-fact: The manager of the controversial Chipotle where the so-called “controversial” incident occurred specifically told OCT that the national corporate office wasn’t speaking for him.

It’s much ado about nothing. MDA’s strategy is to turn pro-gun groups against each other. And it’s working.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 12:20 PM

Point-in-fact: There are a couple related groups, one group calls ahead for permission, and another group just shows up and asks manangement at the door whether it’s ok to come in – and by then, they’re already in the restaurant with their open carry – sometimes NOT in proper safe carry positions.
Point-in-fact: I’ve seen the videos and photos that show some of them holding their weapons, with magazines loaded, in low carry or in other positions that are not even allowed during “cold range” times on a shooting range, or would be considered flagging the firing line on a shooting range during hot range. Some of these guys are just NOT demonstrating proper gun safety in a crowded restaurant environment – and that does not help any of us.

Look, I’m a CCW holder, and I carry on a regular basis. I personally prefer concealed to open, but I think both should be legal. I just think that people who demonstrate poor gun safety practices in a public area, and I’ve dealt with a couple on the shooting range as well, are not helpful to the 2nd Amendment cause.

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 1:33 PM

Except for the fact that people DO have a right to own guns, while you DON’T have a right to not see any guns.

Do you get nervous when you see police open carry their guns?

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:26 PM

So now what? Everyone sits around with their guns next to them as they eat because we don’t know if the guy next to us eating with his gun is sane or just a crazy with a gun.

Are we going back to the salon days now. @@

I have a strong feeling that Aholes free zone restaurants are going to start becoming a thing.

coolrepublica on June 2, 2014 at 1:33 PM

You said that you would keep your finger on the trigger when anyone was open carrying a long gun around you. Walking around with your finger on the trigger of a firearm is more dangerous to everyone around you, than anyone walking with a rifle slung to their back and/or posing for a few pictures.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

/facepalm. Then let me rephrase it, since it was hyperbole on my part. I am keeping my gun very close when I see others with guns.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:33 PM

Can I ask you about this? How will the police react differently if I was open carrying or concealed carrying prior to someone else shooting? Either way my gun is coming out to protect me and mine. Just seems like a stupid argument to put forward. Perhaps I am not thinking down the same road you are though. Can you please explain more? Thanks.

Caesar2075 on June 2, 2014 at 1:24 PM

911 call, someone is shooting at people with a rifle. police show up, actually a bunch of cops show up on a shooting call. what’s the first thing they see? A bunch of idiots carrying around rifles, What do you think they are going to do? Been a cop for 25 years, I responded to several shooting calls in my career, what do cops look for when they arrive on scene. Someone with a gun, that’s for the cops and innocent bystanders safety. It is what it is.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM

Another example of why aliens skipped over Earth.

HopeHeFails on June 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM

I don’t shoot. I don’t own a gun. My support of OCT in their efforts is strictly principled, which is more than I can say for the “pro 2nd amendment” chickens***s who think that guns should be like religion: Out of sight, out of mine.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Strictly principled, no compromise groups on the correct side of this issue always seem to talk a good game but when it comes to results their list of accomplishments is basically non-existent.

alchemist19 on June 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM

A fellow soldier and Joe Blow from down the street get very different levels of trust from me. Sorry, that’s how it is.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Nidal Hassan was unavailable for comment.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Wow, you got me. You named one scumbag out of half a million. I bet if I give you a few minutes you’ll come up with a half dozen more. Take a little time and f*** yourself while you’re at it.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM

Wow, you got me. You named one scumbag out of half a million. I bet if I give you a few minutes you’ll come up with a half dozen more. Take a little time and f*** yourself while you’re at it.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM

Bowe Bergdahl. Want me to keep going?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

If people can’t be trusted to open carry then they can’t be trusted to concealed carry either.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:27 PM

If you’re sitting in a theater carrying concealed, and a person walks in open carrying a rifle and a handgun, if you automatically trust that person to NOT be a potential mass shooter, you are an IDIOT and shouldn’t be armed to begin with.

That’s exactly how the Aurora theater shooting started. They thought it was just a batman fanatic with a “fake” or “toy” gun.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Bowe Bergdahl. Want me to keep going?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Absolutely. You got the ball, run with it Forrest.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

Given how incredibly common it is for some idiot to accidentally drive over someone else because they can’t responsibly handle a car you better believe some people are frightened by this. Seriously at least once a day we hear about a vehicle accidental that injures someone else. It takes a particularly virulent form of stupidity to think that everyone else is willing to die for your car fetish.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Car operators at least have to be licensed and cars actually serve a purpose beyond your mast*rbation aide.
That said if you want to talk about how to decrease car injuries I’m completely open to that.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

A fellow soldier and Joe Blow from down the street get very different levels of trust from me. Sorry, that’s how it is.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Yes – I’ve been in a situation on a public shooting range where 2 guys and a kid came in and proceeded to wave their guns around – pointing them at other people (me included) 4 times before the RSOs finally kicked them out. NO concept of proper gun handling and safety – and the RSOs said afterward they might have been a bit intoxicated.

While I fully believe everyone has the RIGHT to be armed, frankly, there are some people out there, and I’ve seen them, who really should not have guns.

dentarthurdent on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

I feel a little insecure, well chalk it up to me not trusting others, and control issues of my own. (If there is a gun in the same room as me, I’d like to be the one who controls it.)

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:32 PM

It ain’t that scary once you get used to it.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

Bowe Bergdahl. Want me to keep going?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Absolutely. You got the ball, run with it Forrest.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

Colin Powell. Don’t tell me that as a conservative, you’d trust Colin Powell.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:38 PM

The open carry guy did his job by distracting the active shooter long enough for the rest of us to draw and save all the unarmed people. I admire their sacrifice.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Indeed.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:38 PM

Bowe Bergdahl. Want me to keep going?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Why not Lee Harvey Oswald (USMC)?

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:39 PM

It ain’t that scary once you get used to it.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

It isn’t the gun that scares me. It is the people with the gun. Too many idiots including well-trained idiots have shot themselves in accidents. Doesn’t mean you pass a law a from a few idiots, but it also doesn’t mean that I trust anyone with a gun until I know him. It is what it is. I also wouldn’t drive in a car with someone I don’t know.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Colin Powell. Don’t tell me that as a conservative, you’d trust Colin Powell.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:38 PM

I’d trust Colin Powell with a weapon over you.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

If you’re sitting in a theater carrying concealed, and a person walks in open carrying a rifle and a handgun, if you automatically trust that person to NOT be a potential mass shooter, you are an IDIOT and shouldn’t be armed to begin with.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

And if he was hiding it under his coat that would somehow mean he had good intentions?

What does open carry or concealed carry have to do with the intentions of a mass murderer?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM

Now, now, or is it? C’mon, c’mon. Lolz! ; ) My there sure is a lot of shark jumping going on in this thread. Poor sharks. ; )

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Bowe Bergdahl. Want me to keep going?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Why not Lee Harvey Oswald (USMC)?

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:39 PM

I’m going one at a time. There is a large enough number of untrustworthy military members, alive and dead, that I’m not going to trust someone in uniform just because they’re in uniform. Especially not if that person has shown Democratic, Islamic, or communist tendancies.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Bowe Bergdahl. Want me to keep going?

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Why not Lee Harvey Oswald (USMC)?

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:39 PM

Oswald was out of the service when he shot Kennedy.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:41 PM

Oh yeah, and let me also add: screw the NRA.

They have become to the Second Amendment what John Boehner has become to Conservatism.

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:41 PM

I’d trust Colin Powell with a weapon over you.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Too bad, Butch. I still have a right to keep and bear. And let the record reflect, I was not the first individual to use GFY in this exchange.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM

It ain’t that scary once you get used to it.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

20 kids a day are shot and injured accidentally in this country. Let me know if at any point you actually give a damn.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM

If businesses are going to be forced under the law to provide services for activities to which they object on religious grounds, they should certainly not be allowed to discriminate against people exercising an explicit Constitutional right.

malclave on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

As an NRA member and supporter it is absollutely stupid to carry AK and AR15′s into stores. Leave them in your car or truck. Don’t destroy our freedom through stupidity, we are better than that.

leader4hru on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

It is the people with the gun. Too many idiots including well-trained idiots have shot themselves in accidents. Doesn’t mean you pass a law a from a few idiots, but it also doesn’t mean that I trust anyone with a gun until I know him.

melle1228 on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Wouldn’t open carry at least allow you to know who is carrying?

Concealed carry is concealed so you cannot make those judgments.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

20 kids a day are shot and injured accidentally in this country. Let me know if at any point you actually give a damn.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM

More than that die in car accidents hourly. Let me know if at any point you actually give a damn.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM

WhatSlushfund on June 2, 2014 at 1:41 PM

Truth be known, they kinda lost me some years back, when they suggested AR’s made excellent hunting rifles. No need to bend truth. Truth is truth. There is nothing wrong with being honest.

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM

Too bad, Butch. I still have a right to keep and bear. And let the record reflect, I was not the first individual to use GFY in this exchange.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM

And I will happily continue to defend your rights. Please exercise them responsibly. And be nice to your neighbors.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

Then what are you complaining about? Again, the open carry movement is helping you.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM

I’m not your enemy here. People want to open carry, more power to ‘em. I’m not going to. But society does have an irrational fear of an inanimate object, so something does need to be done to change that. Maybe that’s all that can be done.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

Not everyone thinks we are, Mord. Some here would argue that personal comfort is a perfectly suitable basis for public policy. That is what I am lashing back against.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:30 PM

I agree to a point. A lot of our public policy is based on not much more than that though. Consider indecency laws, for the easiest example. Nothing in the constitution says I have to wear pants.

/needless backlash sarcasm

In all seriousness, I agree with both sides of this debate but lean towards the OCT side.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

Okay, this thread is turning into silliness and conflation. Bye.

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

if someone walked into a restaurant openly carrying an AR-15, I would be frightened.

Shump on June 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM

Not after seeing it a dozen times.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

Case closed. I am declaring that you just made the best case as to why it is a bad, bad idea.

We can all leave now folks. Blink just defeated himself in this discussion. This is a perry mason moment. Lol

Later!

coolrepublica on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

You should simply admit your error.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Ya’ know, for sake of argument, I will concede the the “forced” part. The smarter of the open carry demonstrators imposed the restriction on themselves. The really stupid one’s will have their magazines filled. Just to make a point.

Hows that?

If it is that important to you, go ahead and demonstrate with a loaded magazine. I won’t.

Many people will not notice the difference.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Wouldn’t open carry at least allow you to know who is carrying?

Concealed carry is concealed so you cannot make those judgments.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:43 PM

whats to prevent someone from concealing their guns anyway?

ThisIsYourBrainOnKoch on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

20 kids a day are shot and injured accidentally in this country. Let me know if at any point you actually give a damn.

Tlaloc on June 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM

Was Trayvon Martin one of them?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

As a police chief and VERY PRO second amendment guy I agree with the NRA on this. Open carry is a huge can of worms that should not be opened. What happens when an idiot that intends on doing harm sli in with the “protesters” and opens fire, when the cops show up everyone’s a target. That’s just one example of many. Keep the guns concealed.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM

I have a bit of experience with this sort of thing, since about 1989.

I mostly agree with the Chief.

In some places Open Carry is common. In some places it’s common to see rifles being carried in and out of vehicles, etc. Unfortunately, these are the exception and they are still subject to one of the most corrosive forces in the U.S.: Democrat women.

Here’s the scenario: You and your buddies decide to OC into the local . So you strap on iron and fat dumb and happy walk into the place. One of the local Democrat women (with or without a penis) decides to call 911 and whine. The poorly trained 911 dispatcher hears “Guuuun” and “scary” and presses the RED ALERT dispatch button. This causes the cops to drop their donuts and race out “putting their lives on the line” to stop the horrible, evil, dangerous, deadly gang bangers/terrorists/evil people with guns. The cops arrive all amped up and find bimbos with guns. The perpetrator chuckles to herself and sneaks out the back door.

This is the political equivalent of sticking a “kick me” sign on your back.

Much better if you open a dialog with your local Chief. BRING YOUR ATTORNEY. (Cops pay a lot more attention to you when you have an attorney.) Discuss: 1) 911 training. (Ask to see SOP’s) 2) Response procedures. 3) Procedures for having people arrested and prosecuted for making false police reports, 4) develop protocols for coordinating your OC events with the Chief and his staff. Have your attorney follow up the meeting with a letter. Schedule lots of events following your new protocol. FILM your OC events. Make sure you get a good picture of EVERYONE (the weasels will be there in the background) and you may need the film to prove that a) you didn’t break any laws and b) that the report to the police was in fact false and malicious.

Yes, this is a lot more effort than just strapping on a gun and walking fat dumb and happy down the street.

But think about what you are trying to accomplish: you want to reestablish a public and common respect for your rights. The bad guys have had it their way for decades, you’re not going to wish that away over night. There are no “short cuts” and no “magic bullets”. Steady careful progress is the key.

CrazyGene on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

In all seriousness, I agree with both sides of this debate but lean towards the OCT side.

Mord on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

I would hope that you do lean in favor of a group protesting for 2nd amendment rights. It seems to me to be one of those “you can not serve two masters” scenarios.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Okay, this thread is turning into silliness and conflation. Bye.

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

I think Ed’s original post was silliness and conflation. So there ya go. Ciao.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Open carry is a huge can of worms that should not be opened. What happens when an idiot that intends on doing harm slips in with the “protesters” and opens fire, when the cops show up everyone’s a target. That’s just one example of many. Keep the guns concealed. they find his sorry ass on the ground with a dozen weapons pointed at him by the open carry guys.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Anonymous police chiefs might not find enough work to justify their salary and out-dated pensions!

Oh wait… don’t you guys also open carry? Aren’t police opening a huge can of worms that should not be opened? Aren’t they creating an atmosphere of fear?

dominigan on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Thanks for your honesty. So, you even get nervous when you see police open carry. Then of course people like you will be nervous to see open carriers.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:46 PM

I was cracking a joke, there, Blink.

M240H on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

This strikes me as reverse action by leftists. It’s too silly otherwise.

ctwelve on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

if someone walked into a restaurant openly carrying an AR-15, I would be frightened.

Shump on June 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM

Not after seeing it a dozen times.

blink on June 2, 2014 at 1:37 PM

Case closed. I am declaring that you just made the best case as to why it is a bad, bad idea.

coolrepublica on June 2, 2014 at 1:45 PM

So people not fearing firearms is what you are really worried about?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:49 PM

And if he was hiding it under his coat that would somehow mean he had good intentions?

What does open carry or concealed carry have to do with the intentions of a mass murderer?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Could be either way. I’m just saying it’s stupid to automatically trust someone that’s open carrying.

Obviously, if the potential shooter is concealing it, I won’t know about it until they present it. And I NEVER said I would think since he was concealing he had “good intentions”. Don’t put words in my mouth.

Meople on June 2, 2014 at 1:49 PM

Bmore on June 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM

They didn’t loose me until the “jackbooted thugs” remark.

AR makes for a great varmint rifle. Used one to clean out a pack of coyotes not all that long ago. If I had a 7.62 AR it would be going out with me on a pig hunt this summer.

cozmo on June 2, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Oh wait… don’t you guys also open carry? Aren’t police opening a huge can of worms that should not be opened? Aren’t they creating an atmosphere of fear?

dominigan on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

An excellent point.

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Open carry is a huge can of worms that should not be opened. What happens when an idiot that intends on doing harm slips in with the “protesters” and opens fire, when the cops show up everyone’s a target. That’s just one example of many. Keep the guns concealed. they find his sorry ass on the ground with a dozen weapons pointed at him by the open carry guys.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Anonymous police chiefs might not find enough work to justify their salary and out-dated pensions!

Oh wait… don’t you guys also open carry? Aren’t police opening a huge can of worms that should not be opened? Aren’t they creating an atmosphere of fear?

dominigan on June 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Yeah my 5 year old grandson had the same argument.

lpd_1 on June 2, 2014 at 1:50 PM

As a business owner myself (not brick and mortar), just let me say that I support gun rights fully, including the right to open carry in my place of business (if I had one). HOWEVER, I would very much resent being made a pawn in anyone’s political activism, regardless of whether I agree with it or not. I own a business to make money, not get involved in someone’s political fight. Liberal money is just as green as conservative, and I need both to survive.

spinach.chin on June 2, 2014 at 1:50 PM

So people not fearing firearms is what you are really worried about?

sharrukin on June 2, 2014 at 1:49 PM

Did you expect anything more out of CoolRepublica? As I mentioned upthread, I do not shoot or own a gun. It is NOT because I am afraid of them. Quite to the contrary, growing up in a family of hunters and marksmen gave me quite a healthy respect for them.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:51 PM

As a business owner myself (not brick and mortar), just let me say that I support gun rights fully, including the right to open carry in my place of business (if I had one). HOWEVER, I would very much resent being made a pawn in anyone’s political activism, regardless of whether I agree with it or not. I own a business to make money, not get involved in someone’s political fight. Liberal money is just as green as conservative, and I need both to survive.

spinach.chin on June 2, 2014 at 1:50 PM

As a business owner, you’re involved in political fights daily whether you want to be or not. Failure to make a choice IS a choice.

gryphon202 on June 2, 2014 at 1:52 PM

I am the biggest 2nd Amendment supporter that I know, but the people ‘protesting’ at restaurants are missing the point.

This is a private property issue, not a 2nd A one.

A restaurant owner, just like you with your own home, has the right to decide whether to allow guns on his property.

While I think that they are making a mistake in turning their property into a gun-free zone, they have that right…and, potential patrons have the right to dine elsewhere.

To argue otherwise is to make the same demand on private property owners and businesses that the Pink Mafia has on bakeries, florists, and photographers.

Resist We Much on June 2, 2014 at 1:53 PM

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